Trial Balloon? Dump Pence Pick Haley?

[Kathianne]

https://hotair.com/archives/2019/06/24/hmmm-op-ed-trump-pal-published-wsj-calls-trump-ditch-pence-haley/


Hmmm: Op-Ed By Trump Pal Published In WSJ Calls On Trump To Ditch Pence For Haley

ALLAHPUNDITPosted at 11:21 am on June 24, 2019

Noteworthy (https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-haley-in-2020-11561316951) because of both the author and the publication the op-ed ran in.

I’m proud to have founded the Democrats for Trump movement in 2016. President Trump’s pro-growth policies have revived the stagnating U.S. economy, and he deserves a second term. But to have the best chance of re-election, he should replace Vice President Mike Pence on the ticket with Nikki Haley.

I mean no disrespect for Mr. Pence, who’s loyally served the president and the nation. But he’s given Mr. Trump all the help he can. He inspired his fellow evangelical Christians to take a chance in 2016. But in 2020 they’ll already be repelled by the Democrats’ embrace of infanticide. Mr. Trump’s greater obstacle to re-election comes from politically moderate suburban women, many of whom see him as divisive…

It’s too late for Mr. Trump to revamp his political personality. But with the 2016 election in the past, Nikki Haley on the ticket could tamp down the antipathy for Mr. Trump that seems to afflict so many moderate and Republican-leaning women. President Trump needs the prospect of a Vice President Haley to help recapture the White House.



The Journal is a Rupert Murdoch newspaper, of course, and Murdoch is a friend of the president’s. Would a friend stir up trouble for POTUS and his vice president by running this without clearing it with Trump himself first? NYT reporter Maggie Haberman doubts it:

...

The author is Andrew Stein, former president of the New York City Council and a longtime Democrat. But as you see from the excerpt, he’s an unusually Trump-friendly Democrat. He endorsed Trump in 2016, publishing an op-ed in the Journal (https://www.wsj.com/articles/party-loyalty-cant-make-me-vote-for-clinton-1474498244) in that case too, and has known Trump for decades, (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/01/us/politics/mark-penn-trump-clinton.html) having visited him in the White House just within the last few months. Trump donated tens of thousands of dollars (https://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphbenko/2016/02/25/donald-trump-is-a-villain-not-an-anti-hero/#373d60ef5e38) to Stein’s campaigns in NYC in the 1980s, allegedly using dubious means to do so in order to skirt New York campaign-finance laws. They go way back, they’re friendly, and they’re still in touch.

Which raises the question again: Would Stein have stirred up trouble for his friend the president by submitting a “Dump Pence” piece to a newspaper without giving Trump a veto beforehand?

...

[STTAB]

Pence has been WAY too loyal to dump, and besides it would look be Democrat level obvious pandering to women.

[Kathianne]

Pence has been WAY too loyal to dump, and besides it would look be Democrat level obvious pandering to women.

I'm not objective with Trump. It does seem the one group he seriously loses points and never had a good grip on, is 'college educated women.' I can see why he'd want to try and shore that up, though not sure this ploy would work.

[STTAB]

I'm not objective with Trump. It does seem the one group he seriously loses points and never had a good grip on, is 'college educated women.' I can see why he'd want to try and shore that up, though not sure this ploy would work.

I'm of the opinion that if such obvious pandering could get their votes, who wants their votes anyway?

It's completely ridiculous how long his approval numbers are among college educated women. He's placed more women in more positions of power than any past President, including the magical negro. Hell, he just a Supreme Court Justice seated who hired an all female staff of paralegals. And then there is the kicker, you would the transgender nonsense taking away real oppurtunities from women would turn women off from ANYONE in the Democratic Party.

Trump has done a lot more for women, among other groups than he gets credit for.

And yes I acknowledge that some of that is his own doing.

[Kathianne]

I'm of the opinion that if such obvious pandering could get their votes, who wants their votes anyway?

It's completely ridiculous how long his approval numbers are among college educated women. He's placed more women in more positions of power than any past President, including the magical negro. Hell, he just a Supreme Court Justice seated who hired an all female staff of paralegals. And then there is the kicker, you would the transgender nonsense taking away real oppurtunities from women would turn women off from ANYONE in the Democratic Party.

Trump has done a lot more for women, among other groups than he gets credit for.

And yes I acknowledge that some of that is his own doing.


I can't speak for all women in that group, but yes, I think the pandering is obvious. I also think they need to consider those in that particular group that haven't supported him, are NOT going to. You're correct, he did that on his own-for a long time.

[jimnyc]

I love Haley and wouldn't mind seeing her in any compatible position - but not replacing Pence. And not due to any comparison. I do think dropping Pence and heavily mixing things up and amounts to a loss of votes.

[CSM]

I can't speak for all women in that group, but yes, I think the pandering is obvious. I also think they need to consider those in that particular group that haven't supported him, are NOT going to. You're correct, he did that on his own-for a long time.

Can anyone name ONE politician at the federal level that doesn't pander???

[jimnyc]

Can anyone name ONE politician at the federal level that doesn't pander???

Sarcasm? You looking for the easter bunny and a unicorn rolled into one?

[Gunny]

Haley caved on the SC flag. She lost it with me right there. THEN I found out she's Indian (the country). Nail in the coffin.

[Gunny]

I'm not objective with Trump. It does seem the one group he seriously loses points and never had a good grip on, is 'college educated women.' I can see why he'd want to try and shore that up, though not sure this ploy would work."College educated women" isn't a qualifier for me for jack. No offense.

You could be raised in a barn and be smarter than some college educated people I know of.

People should be judged based on qualification, not a piece of parer that says they are smart nor what is or isn't swinging between their legs.

[Kathianne]

"College educated women" isn't a qualifier for me for jack. No offense.

You could be raised in a barn and be smarter than some college educated people I know of.

People should be judged based on qualification, not a piece of parer that says they are smart nor what is or isn't swinging between their legs.

It's a subgroup the pollsters use and they are not about to ask either of us our opinion on it.

Still and all, the groupings work, more or less. Depending on the grouping, depending on the questions, depending on the skill of the data masters.

[Kathianne]

Well I brought that article up to see how the 'balloon,' if that is what it was, went over here. Wouldn't get my vote, though I do like Haley and would likely vote for her for President.

The rest of you? Nope, didn't seem you like the idea, some find it disloyal, if I'm reading you right. Most or all of you voted for the man.

I think that balloon earned lead material here?

[CSM]

Sarcasm? You looking for the easter bunny and a unicorn rolled into one?

I'd settle for that.

[jimnyc]

Well I brought that article up to see how the 'balloon,' if that is what it was, went over here. Wouldn't get my vote, though I do like Haley and would likely vote for her for President.

The rest of you? Nope, didn't seem you like the idea, some find it disloyal, if I'm reading you right. Most or all of you voted for the man.

I think that balloon earned lead material here?

For me it's not about being loyal or disloyal but rather the right mixture. I too would vote for Haley for president, if it any other year. Condi would get my vote too. Quite a few on my list of women that would be fantastic leaders of our country!

I just think right now the mixture has already been made and it's successful. If Haley were vice, I have no doubt she would do a good job. And hell, maybe had she been his pair in 2016 we would have her as vice right now. Or if she runs in 2024, I'll stand behind her... I think the only 2 I can think of for sure that I would vote for besides her, would definitely be Condi and Fred Thompson had he still been alive. If she were to run against Pence, I think I would choose Haley over him.

So to me it's not about anything other than the winning mixture being there and I don't like fixing things that aren't broken. As if it would be a valid comparison, I also never try to fix and supposed computer issues if there are no current problems being experienced. I know, different worlds, but I'm usually in another one anyway. :)

I actually DO like the idea though. It's just the timing. I think they would make an excellent pair, and kinda already do when they work with one another. SHE has been loyal to this administration, and got it in return.

[STTAB]

For me it's not about being loyal or disloyal but rather the right mixture. I too would vote for Haley for president, if it any other year. Condi would get my vote too. Quite a few on my list of women that would be fantastic leaders of our country!

I just think right now the mixture has already been made and it's successful. If Haley were vice, I have no doubt she would do a good job. And hell, maybe had she been his pair in 2016 we would have her as vice right now. Or if she runs in 2024, I'll stand behind her... I think the only 2 I can think of for sure that I would vote for besides her, would definitely be Condi and Fred Thompson had he still been alive. If she were to run against Pence, I think I would choose Haley over him.

So to me it's not about anything other than the winning mixture being there and I don't like fixing things that aren't broken. As if it would be a valid comparison, I also never try to fix and supposed computer issues if there are no current problems being experienced. I know, different worlds, but I'm usually in another one anyway. :)

I actually DO like the idea though. It's just the timing. I think they would make an excellent pair, and kinda already do when they work with one another. SHE has been loyal to this administration, and got it in return.


I just don't think you dump a VP who let's face it brought in the evangelical vote in 2016 when the "grab em by the pussy" tape was scaring folks off, and hasn't done anything wrong since. It's not like Pence has been out there blowing up Trump's agenda or something.

[Kathianne]

I just don't think you dump a VP who let's face it brought in the evangelical vote in 2016 when the "grab em by the pussy" tape was scaring folks off, and hasn't done anything wrong since. It's not like Pence has been out there blowing up Trump's agenda or something.

That was my thinking too. Like I said too, I just don't think Haley would bring most of the 'college educated Republican women' to vote for Trump. Indeed, if she went along with helping to get rid of Pence, it might well cost her more of those votes in her own election bid for President down the line.

[STTAB]

That was my thinking too. Like I said too, I just don't think Haley would bring most of the 'college educated Republican women' to vote for Trump. Indeed, if she went along with helping to get rid of Pence, it might well cost her more of those votes in her own election bid for President down the line.

I don't think anyone who had the audacity to work for Trump has much of a future in DC. The swamp will make sure of that.

[hjmick]

IMO...


Should Trump win re-election, I am of the opinion that their best chance to continue holding the White House in 2024 is Nikki Haley. I don't see Pence as electable, among other things he seems to have the personality of wet sand... Now, whether or not Haley were to run as an ex-VP or wins the nomination in the primaries... who knows.

[Kathianne]

IMO...


Should Trump win re-election, I am of the opinion that their best chance to continue holding the White House in 2024 is Nikki Haley. I don't see Pence as electable, among other things he seems to have the personality of wet sand... Now, whether Haley runs as an ex-VP or wins the nomination in the primaries... who knows.

I agree about 2024. I don't think though it would happen if she ran as Trump's VP.

[Gunny]

Sounds to me like an Affirmative Action quota. Female: check Degree: check. RINO: check.

I would like to see an American person qualified for the job get it. THAT would REALLY be novel. And by qualified I don't mean has checks in all the PC boxes. I mean can actually do the job and has some sort of a track record.

I would vote for Haley with no other choice simply for meeting the qualifier "not a Democrat". Kinda how it goes but it shouldn't be.

[STTAB]

Sounds to me like an Affirmative Action quota. Female: check Degree: check. RINO: check.

I would like to see an American person qualified for the job get it. THAT would REALLY be novel.



That would disqualify every Democrat in DC and most of the GOP as well.

Sounds like a good idea.

[Gunny]

That would disqualify every Democrat in DC and most of the GOP as well.

Sounds like a good idea.I'm all for that. IMO, she just another Republican't and what's between her legs isn't my concern. I don't consider it a qualifier nor disqualifier. N/A is more like it.

[Kathianne]

Yeah. I get few are likely interested in this discussion, outside of those advising Trump to maybe do something this dumb. I don't think Haley would say yes, well there's all that:

https://thebulwark.com/the-haley-trump-trial-balloon-is-pitiful/


The Haley-Trump Trial Balloon Is Pitiful

Stop trying to make Haley-Trump happen.
by A.B. STODDARD (https://thebulwark.com/author/a-b-stoddard/)
JUNE 25, 2019 4:06 AM



What part of the Trump-dumps-Pence-for-Haley next year in a Haley Mary pass is the most laughable? That it would smack of desperation? Or that it would be designed to bring voters repelled by Trump—like moderate and suburban women—back into the fold?


Rumors have swirled for weeks, and Sunday night the Wall Street Journal published an oped by Andy Stein, who said he “founded the Democrats for Trump movement in 2016,” making the case that to win reelection Trump should fire his vice president and replace him on the ticket with former U.N. Ambassador Nikki Haley. There’s no doubt there are numerous fingerprints, and winks, and nods on this greasy balloon, including from Team Trump. But that doesn’t make it any less ham-handed.


It all sounds plausible since Trump has always publicly equivocated about Pence. In a Meet the Press interview that aired the same day that the oped ran, Trump said that he was 100 percent sure Pence would be his running mate. Yet in another recent interview he declined to endorse Pence for the presidency in 2024. Last week rally goers were waving signs behind Trump at his campaign kick-off in Orlando where Pence had appeared on stage with him, Mrs. Pence in tow, that read “Trump 2020.” Pence’s name was notably absent.


The one point Stein makes that we can all agree with is Pence is obviously no longer needed to make the sale with evangelical voters. Evangelicals have now seen Trump faced with sexual assault and rape allegations, adultery, compulsive lying, felony hush money payments, government-funded child abuse at detention centers on the border—you name it. And yet, they’re his biggest base of support. (After the white nationalists, of course.)


So no, Trump doesn’t need Pence to bring his religious base home. But would adding Nikki Haley to the ticket really win over college-educated white women who have been repelled by his sexual assault and rape allegations, adultery, compulsive lying, felony hush money payments, government-funded child abuse at detention centers on the border?


That’s a . . . big ask. Suburban women fueled the historic turnout in the midterms, choosing Democrats by a 20-point margin. It seems just as likely that they’d find such an overt pander to be even more repellent.

...

Those were my points, though I don't expect his supporters to agree with the rhetoric, I just don't see what he'd gain if he do such a thing. He'd likely lost some votes to those who felt he was disloyal to Pence, or not.

He wouldn't gain the women who didn't vote last time for him, they'd just think worse of Haley is she pandered. Which she HASN'T previously, even in the UN. So, she only has future to lose.

[Gunny]

Yeah. I get few are likely interested in this discussion, outside of those advising Trump to maybe do something this dumb. I don't think Haley would say yes, well there's all that:

https://thebulwark.com/the-haley-trump-trial-balloon-is-pitiful/



Those were my points, though I don't expect his supporters to agree with the rhetoric, I just don't see what he'd gain if he do such a thing. He'd likely lost some votes to those who felt he was disloyal to Pence, or not.

He wouldn't gain the women who didn't vote last time for him, they'd just think worse of Haley is she pandered. Which she HASN'T previously, even in the UN. So, she only has future to lose.Where to start? :)

The whole idea is some WSJ hack's imagination? And look what it has ballooned into (speaking of balloons).

First, I think regardless Trump's running mate, the Dems are going to cheat him out of the election one way or the other. Vote recounts, lawsuits filed, nt to mention the obvious illegal voting. So, I don't think it's going to matter.

I like that they're sticking to their unproven allegations as "left-truths" even though they are unproven or disproven. Believers are gonna believe and haters are gonna hate.

I am hardly Trump's biggest fan. I just give him his due. i'm definitely not Haley's fan and not planning on it. I'm also not a fan of voting for a woman just because she's a woman anymore than I am voting for a black because they're black. Or a man because he's a man.

I'll agree on one point though. I don't see that attaching herself to Trump is going to do any favors for Haley, nor help her down the road if she decides to pursue public office further.

[Kathianne]

Where to start? :)

The whole idea is some WSJ hack's imagination? And look what it has ballooned into (speaking of balloons).

First, I think regardless Trump's running mate, the Dems are going to cheat him out of the election one way or the other. Vote recounts, lawsuits filed, nt to mention the obvious illegal voting. So, I don't think it's going to matter.

I like that they're sticking to their unproven allegations as "left-truths" even though they are unproven or disproven. Believers are gonna believe and haters are gonna hate.

I am hardly Trump's biggest fan. I just give him his due. i'm definitely not Haley's fan and not planning on it. I'm also not a fan of voting for a woman just because she's a woman anymore than I am voting for a black because they're black. Or a man because he's a man.

I'll agree on one point though. I don't see that attaching herself to Trump is going to do any favors for Haley, nor help her down the road if she decides to pursue public office further.


I don't think that as things stand at the present, Trump should be so very worried. Just like Nixon shouldn't have been so concerned in '72. Alas.

I give Trump his due, have since the beginning. I don't shower kudos upon him, just can't, his fans and he himself are more than conspicuous in doing so.

I think that the balloon was just that, as the article states the rumors have been around for weeks. His friends, including WSJ editor just got around to launching. I'm pretty sure it is a no go.

With just about every Democrat capable of getting to a mic, they are running. The odds of trouble emerging from that pack of now 24 are pretty good. Look at the GOP in 2016, and that was with some brain power behind it. Total meltdown. Likelihood of these 24 doing better? Not high.

[Gunny]

I don't think that as things stand at the present, Trump should be so very worried. Just like Nixon shouldn't have been so concerned in '72. Alas.

I give Trump his due, have since the beginning. I don't shower kudos upon him, just can't, his fans and he himself are more than conspicuous in doing so.

I think that the balloon was just that, as the article states the rumors have been around for weeks. His friends, including WSJ editor just got around to launching. I'm pretty sure it is a no go.

With just about every Democrat capable of getting to a mic, they are running. The odds of trouble emerging from that pack of now 24 are pretty good. Look at the GOP in 2016, and that was with some brain power behind it. Total meltdown. Likelihood of these 24 doing better? Not high.They still at 35? Or have some more candidates appeared? :laugh:

[Kathianne]

They still at 35? Or have some more candidates appeared? :laugh:

If they are at 35 they picked up 11 since early morning. ;)

[Russ]

I agree that Nikki Haley would be a good running-mate for Trump if Mike Pence had health problems and couldn't do it anymore. But it would be a terrible idea to dump Mike Pence for any other reason. He has been loyal and a fine VP, and I don't think anyone other that anti-Christians has any problem with him.

[SassyLady]

If something happens to Trump maybe Pence will pick Haley as his VP.

I like Haley and would love to see a Haley/Gowdy ticket in 2024.

[Abbey Marie]

Is there a precedent for dumping a VP who has not done anything wrong? If not, this is a bad idea. Maybe it’s a bad idea either way.

[Kathianne]

Is there a precedent for dumping a VP who has not done anything wrong? If not, this is a bad idea. Maybe it’s a bad idea either way.

Seriously, couldn't think of any-other than Agnew, but that was for cause. Anyways, looked around:

https://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/11/vice-presidential-swaps-throughout-history/


...

Washington is buzzing this week over revelations in the new book "Double Down" that Obama administration officials considered swapping out Vice President Joe Biden with Hilary Clinton for the number two spot on the 2012 Democratic ticket.

Though it appears it never got to a stage beyond hypothetical consideration, had a switch actually occurred, it would have of course been a huge deal - but not a first in U.S. history. In fact, there have been several instances where a vice president has been removed from a ticket in a later term. Here's a look at four vice presidents who were dropped from the ticket for political reasons.


John Nance Garner IV Garner served as vice president under Franklin Delano Roosevelt for Roosevelt's first two terms - from 1933 to 1941. Garner, who served as speaker of the house before ascending to the vice presidency, ran for the democratic nomination himself in 1932, and eventually cut a deal with FDR when it became clear the president was the favorite for the nod.


The two men did not have a strong relationship, however. Garner, who hailed from Texas, was a more traditional conservative democrat, while Roosevelt was a champion of the more liberal wing of the party. In 1940, before Roosevelt announced his plans to run for a third term, Garner declared his candidacy for president. Of course, Roosevelt did eventually get in the race, and Garner did not drop out. He did not win the Democratic nomination and Roosevelt, not surprisingly, replaced Garner on the ballot with his secretary of agriculture, Henry Wallace.


Henry Agard Wallace Wallace served as vice president during Roosevelt's third term, from 1941 to 1945. A liberal democrat from Iowa, Wallace appeared to be a better political match for Roosevelt than his predecessor. However, Wallace never gained favor with the more conservative wing of the party, and he butted heads with other elected officials such as Jesse Jones, the secretary of commerce at the time.


Wallace's rivalries would prove his undoing, as several leaders of the party rallied against him, and eventually turned FDR against him as well. Wallace was replaced on the ticket by Missouri Senator Harry S. Truman at the 1944 Democratic National Convention. At the time, a major consideration for leaders of the Democratic party was Roosevelt's declining health, and the selection of Truman altered the course of history - Roosevelt died less than three months into his fourth term.


Hannibal Hamlin Hamlin, a republican senator and governor from Maine, served as vice president to Abraham Lincoln during Lincoln's first term, from 1861 to 1865. Hamlin and Lincoln never met until after they won election, but Hamlin made political sense for Lincoln, who was a Republican from Illinois, because he hailed from the Northeast, a crucial region for Lincoln's ultimate election victory.


However, by the time Lincoln was running for reelection in 1864, Hamlin was less politically useful. Lincoln joined forces with the war democrats, and selected a member of their party - Andrew Johnson of Tennessee - to replace Hamlin on the ticket. This move by Lincoln had a profound affect on the course of American history: Hamlin's term ended in March, 1865, less than two months before Lincoln was assassinated.


Aaron Burr, Jr. Burr was the third vice president of the United States, serving under Thomas Jefferson. Jefferson did not select Burr as a running mate, the two men were nominated together by their party - the democratic republicans - and it was understood that Jefferson was to be president, Burr was to be vice president. However, the two men ended up receiving the same number of electoral votes initially, and Burr refused to concede.


The election was ultimately decided by the House of Representatives, where Jefferson of course came out the winner, but the whole debacle certainly did not start the two men off on great footing. Jefferson never trusted Burr, and when Jefferson ran for reelection in 1804, he did not ask Burr to join him. Interestingly enough, the most infamous incident during Burr's vice presidency is not related to his poor relationship with Jefferson at all. In 1804 while still the VP, Burr shot and killed his rival Alexander Hamilton in a duel. That is the event for which Burr is probably best known.

[Abbey Marie]

Fascinating info, thanks, Kath!

[Kathianne]

Fascinating info, thanks, Kath!

Not trying to be a jerk or anything, BUT I've said a bazillion times that Obama and Trump are like reverse sides of the same coin. I gotta admit, until I was previewing, I didn't even recognize it was about Obama and Biden!

[Abbey Marie]

Not trying to be a jerk or anything, BUT I've said a bazillion times that Obama and Trump are like reverse sides of the same coin. I gotta admit, until I was previewing, I didn't even recognize it was about Obama and Biden!

I am never sure if Obama and Hilary like each other or despise each other, but I would have been shocked if this swap had happened. Then again, we never know the deals that happen behind closed doors.

Heard on the radio yesterday speculation that Hillary is waiting for several of the Dem candidates to fall away, and then she will announce.

:smoke:

[Kathianne]

I am never sure if Obama and Hilary like each other or despise each other, but I would have been shocked if this swap had happened. Then again, we never know the deals that happen behind closed doors.

Heard on the radio yesterday speculation that Hillary is waiting for several of the Dem candidates to fall away, and the she will announce.

:smoke:

Then she is totally delusional. Even the Dems cannot stand her.

[STTAB]

I am never sure if Obama and Hilary like each other or despise each other, but I would have been shocked if this swap had happened. Then again, we never know the deals that happen behind closed doors.

Heard on the radio yesterday speculation that Hillary is waiting for several of the Dem candidates to fall away, and the she will announce.

:smoke:

You're not sure?


The Obamas and Clintons HATE each other.

But what they hated even more was the thought of not being in power.

[Abbey Marie]

You're not sure?


The Obamas and Clintons HATE each other.

But what they hated even more was the thought of not being in power.

No, I’m not sure. But I am ​sure that I despise all of them.

[STTAB]

No, I’m not sure. But I am ​sure that I despise all of them.

Cuz they are all soulless, phony baloney criminal scum bags.

[Abbey Marie]

Cuz they are all soulless, phony baloney criminal scum bags.


:clap: