Why does nobody talk about...

[actsnoblemartin]

The muslim crusades, that occured after mohammeds death, and in 24 short years, they almost stole the entire world, including middle east, every country they are in now, was never muslim, but christian.

Charles de martel of france stopped them, and their still coming.

[Gaffer]

It's not politically correct to talk about real history like that. The christians of europe were the bad guys, the liberals say so. How dare they defend themselves and launch an offense action to take back the lands that had been captured.

[manu1959]

The muslim crusades, that occured after mohammeds death, and in 24 short years, they almost stole the entire world, including middle east, every country they are in now, was never muslim, but christian.

Charles de martel of france stopped them, and their still coming.

http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2006/09/why-we-cannot-rely-on-moderate-muslims.html

[LiberalNation]

Cuz it's boring history. Most people are onterested in the present not the long gone past.

[Guernicaa]

There was no "bad guy" back then.

There were the insane Christian fundamentalists in the west, and the insane Muslim fundamentalists in the east.

Thank god (litteraly) that progressives saved the West in the 20th century.

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,

1. But in *The Great CWN's* view on this subject.
2. The time to cleanse the land is fast approaching.
3. And all hell will soon break loose on Islamic Nations.
4. Why do I feel this is on the near horizon?
5. For one thing it has been written about, in the Bible.
6. And all those who are of Ishmael, will be brought into the slaughter, unable to resist coming.
7. They will be hooked with a hook under their jaws.
8. And brought to Megiddo, for their final battle.
9. Its unavoidable.
10. And the proverbial stage is being set.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Gaffer]

There was no "bad guy" back then.

There were the insane Christian fundamentalists in the west, and the insane Muslim fundamentalists in the east.

Thank god (litteraly) that progressives saved the West in the 20th century.

So now we have insane fundamentalist muslims in the east and sane good guys in the west.

progressives did not save anything. The renaissance is what saved the west. Something the muslims have never experienced and can't under islam.

[manu1959]

There was no "bad guy" back then.

There were the insane Christian fundamentalists in the west, and the insane Muslim fundamentalists in the east.

Thank god (litteraly) that progressives saved the West in the 20th century.

you really should read some history....

[jafar00]

So now we have insane fundamentalist muslims in the east and sane good guys in the west.

progressives did not save anything. The renaissance is what saved the west. Something the muslims have never experienced and can't under islam.

And who do you have to thank for the renaissance that brought Europe out of the Dark Ages? The Muslims. :P

[KarlMarx]

There was no "bad guy" back then.

There were the insane Christian fundamentalists in the west, and the insane Muslim fundamentalists in the east.

Thank god (litteraly) that progressives saved the West in the 20th century.
If you are trying to compare Evangelical Christians, who are Protestant and often called "fundamentalists", with the Christians of the 7th and 8th centuries, you are barking up the wrong tree. For one thing, the Protestant Reformation didn't start until the 16th century. In fact, the schism that separated the Western Church from the Eastern churches didn't occur until the 9th century.

Progressives did not "save" the West in the 20th century. The progressive movement is responsible for the Food and Drug Act of 1906, women's suffrage and Prohibition in the 1920s (which was repealed by the ratification of the 21st amendment).

But, any claim that progressives "saved" the west is tenuous, at best.

Now, if you want to call today's crop of socialists "progressive", that is another story entirely. They aren't progressive by any stretch of the word. In fact, the "progressives" of today seem to be blocking any sort of reform. The only ideas that "progressives" of today seem to have in mind is foisting socialized medicine on the rest of us. If that is reform, then God help anyone who should become ill (literally)

[KarlMarx]

And who do you have to thank for the renaissance that brought Europe out of the Dark Ages? The Muslims. :P
Yes, the Muslims saved us from the Dark Ages and the Progressives saved the West in the 20th century. I'm glad that some board members are here to enlighten us about Western History.

Strange, though, in spite of bringing about the Renaissance there wasn't a single Renaissance painter, sculptor or scientist who was Muslim. True, the Renaissance did assimilate some knowledge of the Arabs into the West but, for the most part, it was the assimilation of ancient Greek and Roman knowledge (which was preserved by the Arabs and by the Catholic Church).

Furthermore, the people who you credit with bringing the West out of the Dark Ages did a poor job of keeping themselves out of the them.

Perhaps you shouldn't get your history from Al Jazeera.

[diuretic]

Hang on. St Thomas Aquinas only knew Aristotle because of Muslim scholars. But I'm being a bit simplistic, this is a good read:

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/20/014.html

And when I went to school, admittedly some years ago, I was taught that the Crusaders were shining white knights and the Saracens were bloodthirsty bastards. I was sold a pup. Mind you I suppose they had a script to keep to, couldn't confuse young minds with difficult ideas like perhaps the Crusaders were corrupt, raping, thieving, murdering bastards who were using religion as a bloody big excuse and the Pope as an albi while people like Saladin were merciful. Okay I just went from one extreme to the other deliberately. The point is that history isn't simple so let's accept that and work with what we know or can find out to present an accurate (or as accurate as possible) picture.

[Guernicaa]

So now we have insane fundamentalist muslims in the east and sane good guys in the west.

progressives did not save anything. The renaissance is what saved the west. Something the muslims have never experienced and can't under islam.
The renaissance was a time when secular values began to emerge, and people started favoring less and less of the church up their asses. Liberals of the 20th century further saved the west by the creed of "live and let live". Why do you think theres so many openly gay people compared to in 1930? Why are women holding some of the highest positions of government office? Because of liberalism. Liberalism always has, and always will win.

[Sock Puppet]

Liberals of the 20th century further saved the west by the creed of "live and let live". Why do you think theres so many openly gay people compared to in 1930? Why are women holding some of the highest positions of government office? Because of liberalism. Liberalism always has, and always will win.

You're a riot. Thanks for the laugh. :lol:

[Guernicaa]

If you are trying to compare Evangelical Christians, who are Protestant and often called "fundamentalists", with the Christians of the 7th and 8th centuries, you are barking up the wrong tree. For one thing, the Protestant Reformation didn't start until the 16th century. In fact, the schism that separated the Western Church from the Eastern churches didn't occur until the 9th century.

Progressives did not "save" the West in the 20th century. The progressive movement is responsible for the Food and Drug Act of 1906, women's suffrage and Prohibition in the 1920s (which was repealed by the ratification of the 21st amendment).

But, any claim that progressives "saved" the west is tenuous, at best.

Now, if you want to call today's crop of socialists "progressive", that is another story entirely. They aren't progressive by any stretch of the word. In fact, the "progressives" of today seem to be blocking any sort of reform. The only ideas that "progressives" of today seem to have in mind is foisting socialized medicine on the rest of us. If that is reform, then God help anyone who should become ill (literally)

Progressives absolutely saved the west, and you’re a fool to say otherwise. The tolerance that has been built over the 20th century towards minorities and women is the direct effect of progressive values. The lack of church that’s especially noticeable today is because of progressives. The economic safety nets stem from probably the greatest president of all time, FDR. Our culture that we have today comes from the work of progressives.

What side of the political spectrum do you think the people were on who led the renaissance?

What do you thinks happening to the Middle East that slowly began to happen to us in the 16th century? Liberalism is changing the way people look at things and is enlightening people. Parts of the Middle East have already begun to change their attitudes and policies as a direct result of progressive Muslims.

[Guernicaa]

You're a riot. Thanks for the laugh. :lol:
Would you care to respond sock boy? I've read your shit, and frankly the fact that you have anything to say about me just furthers my assumption that you contribute nothing to this board besides stupid comments.

[truthmatters]

You're a riot. Thanks for the laugh. :lol:


The world gets progessively more liberal and history shows this.

If mankind listened to only conservitives from the begining of time we would still be using stone tools.

[Sock Puppet]

If mankind listened to only conservatives from the begining of time we would still be using stone tools.

And if it weren't for conservatives, many liberals would have been slaughtered wholesale from the invading hordes in centuries past. You liberals aren't man enough to fight the enemy, so brave, strong, and courageous conservatives pick up the slack for you. :cool:

[Hagbard Celine]

Calling Islamic expansion a "crusade" is a lame attempt by modern-day conservative wank-jobs to cast a shadow of villainy onto historical Islam that is neither fair nor balanced. And yes, "wank-job" is a technical term. Everybody knows that the European crusades were a defensive move by western powers against the spread of Islam throughout the Arab world and even into Iberia (what is now modern-day Spain and Portugal.) This view of history is neither deleterious to historical Islam nor historical Christianity. What's with the need to falsely paint Christianity as a some all-positive historical influence? It certainly wasn't all-positive. During the crusades, Christian armies were unprovoked in their invasion of the "holy lands." They massacred thousands of people for this cause. Then there's also the fact that we have Muslim scientists to thank for the salvation of math, science, architecture, secular literature and astronomy during the dark ages. If it weren't for Muslims, Christian fundamentalism during this period of ignorance would have wiped-out nearly all human knowledge save that which was known in the Orient at the time.

Of course Christianity is probably the main purveyor of good in the world in modern times and Islam may be the main purveyor of evil to some people, but it wasn't always so. And I think it's a joke to rewrite history just to serve some lukewarm idealistic public-image charade against Islam.

[truthmatters]

And if it weren't for conservatives, many liberals would have been slaughtered wholesale from the invading hordes in centuries past. You liberals aren't man enough to fight the enemy, so brave, strong, and courageous conservatives pick up the slack for you. :cool:


Yeah like boudicca

[KarlMarx]

Progressives absolutely saved the west, and you’re a fool to say otherwise. The tolerance that has been built over the 20th century towards minorities and women is the direct effect of progressive values. The lack of church that’s especially noticeable today is because of progressives. The economic safety nets stem from probably the greatest president of all time, FDR. Our culture that we have today comes from the work of progressives.

What side of the political spectrum do you think the people were on who led the renaissance?

What do you thinks happening to the Middle East that slowly began to happen to us in the 16th century? Liberalism is changing the way people look at things and is enlightening people. Parts of the Middle East have already begun to change their attitudes and policies as a direct result of progressive Muslims.
Oh my goodness. You actually are making the claim that people like Democrats were responsible for the Renaissance? That is not true by any means. There wasn't even a democratic form of government in existence until the 18th century.

Tolerance of diverse ideas does not seem to be the attitude of present day "progressives". Progressives seem to have no problem with limiting free speech and will smear anyone who disagrees with them. That, to me, is not the spirit of the Renaissance, but of those people who opposed it.

Of course, the Renaissance did not threaten the political powers in place at the time. In fact, it was encouraged by the kings, princes and so forth.

So called "tolerance" of minorities was not the work of progressives. The slaves were freed in 1863, before the progressive movement. You confuse the progressive movement with the Civil Rights movement. The civil rights movement occured in the 1950s and 1960s. By the way, the entire reason the Republican Party started was abolition.

You seem to equate the decline of churches and religion as being a positive thing. The truth is that atheistic regimes and the repression of religion by government have been (and still are) responsible for millions of deaths.

The economic safety nets put in place by FDR helped to worsen the Great Depression. The Great Depression ended when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, that should tell you something. FDR had nearly a decade to end the Depression, yet it took our entering WWII to end it.

Oh and another thing. Speaking of changes in the Middle East towards a more tolerant and liberal form of government. Who is affecting that change? A Republican President. Both in Iraq and in Afghanistan. Who opposes it? The so called "progressives". Who opposes the support of the only other democracy in the Middle East, i.e. Israel? The progressives. Who also helped bring Communism to an end in the Soviet Union and in Eastern Europe? A Republican president. It's interesting that today's conservatives seem to be more progressive than the so called self described "progressives".

Freedom and economic self determination go hand in hand. That is why the Founding Fathers were careful to put protection of private property into the Constitution. Socialism, on the other hand, does not respect private property. Its inevitable outcome is a dictatorship by the proletariat, i.e. communism. Unfortunately, you progressives don't seem to understand that. Once you take away economic freedom and private control of property, individual rights are the next to go.....

[glockmail]

And who do you have to thank for the renaissance that brought Europe out of the Dark Ages? The Muslims. :P That's like thanking the Japanese for bringing the US into the nuclear age.:lol:

[truthmatters]

If you refuse to believe that liberals have moved the world forward throughtout history then you odnt know history.

Maybe this is why conservitives "think" education is biased?

You see its the facts of history.

Go look up the word conservitive in the dictionary?

[Gaffer]

If you refuse to believe that liberals have moved the world forward throughtout history then you odnt know history.

Maybe this is why conservitives "think" education is biased?

You see its the facts of history.

Go look up the word conservitive in the dictionary?

Liberal (communists) have never moved anything forward. They stagnate everything they touch and create dictatorships.

Liberals are affiliated with communism, so they have begun using the term progressive instead. But a rose by any other name....

[theHawk]

Oh my goodness. You actually are making the claim that people like Democrats were responsible for the Renaissance? That is not true by any means. There wasn't even a democratic form of government in existence until the 18th century.

Tolerance of diverse ideas does not seem to be the attitude of present day "progressives". Progressives seem to have no problem with limiting free speech and will smear anyone who disagrees with them. That, to me, is not the spirit of the Renaissance, but of those people who opposed it.

Of course, the Renaissance did not threaten the political powers in place at the time. In fact, it was encouraged by the kings, princes and so forth.

So called "tolerance" of minorities was not the work of progressives. The slaves were freed in 1863, before the progressive movement. You confuse the progressive movement with the Civil Rights movement. The civil rights movement occured in the 1950s and 1960s. By the way, the entire reason the Republican Party started was abolition.

You seem to equate the decline of churches and religion as being a positive thing. The truth is that atheistic regimes and the repression of religion by government have been (and still are) responsible for millions of deaths.

The economic safety nets put in place by FDR helped to worsen the Great Depression. The Great Depression ended when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, that should tell you something. FDR had nearly a decade to end the Depression, yet it took our entering WWII to end it.

Oh and another thing. Speaking of changes in the Middle East towards a more tolerant and liberal form of government. Who is affecting that change? A Republican President. Both in Iraq and in Afghanistan. Who opposes it? The so called "progressives". Who opposes the support of the only other democracy in the Middle East, i.e. Israel? The progressives. Who also helped bring Communism to an end in the Soviet Union and in Eastern Europe? A Republican president. It's interesting that today's conservatives seem to be more progressive than the so called self described "progressives".

Freedom and economic self determination go hand in hand. That is why the Founding Fathers were careful to put protection of private property into the Constitution. Socialism, on the other hand, does not respect private property. Its inevitable outcome is a dictatorship by the proletariat, i.e. communism. Unfortunately, you progressives don't seem to understand that. Once you take away economic freedom and private control of property, individual rights are the next to go.....

Correct. These modern day yahoos that go around calling themselves "progressive" are mostly liberals that don't want the stigma of modern day liberalism.

[theHawk]

Go look up the word conservitive in the dictionary?


The word "conservitive" isn't in the dictionary.

[truthmatters]

your right sorry,Conservative.

I always spell that one wrong.

Its like some people always spell Democratic party wrong.

[glockmail]

your right sorry,Conservative.

I always spell that one wrong.

Its like some people always spell Democratic[sic] party wrong. It's spelled: "Democrat".

[glockmail]

If you refuse to believe that liberals have moved the world forward throughtout history then you odnt know history.

Maybe this is why conservitives "think" education is biased?

You see its the facts of history.

Go look up the word conservitive in the dictionary? That's really dumb, TM. Webster doesn't define the political parties; the parties themselves do. The dictionary term for "liberal" has no relation whatsoever with the political term: "Liberal".

[theHawk]

That's really dumb, TM. Webster doesn't define the political parties; the parties themselves do. The dictionary term for "liberal" has no relation whatsoever with the political term: "Liberal".

Since when has truth ever really mattered to 'truthmatters' ? :laugh2: