Mass Chinese Re-education

[Drummond]

This story is getting prominent billing in today's BBC reports ... they're claiming it as an 'exclusive', so presumably it hasn't reached major news agencies in any big way yet (??).

The BBC are basically selling this story as 'an humanitarian outrage', concentrating on a reported 'human/cultural injustice' angle to it.

What's it about ? Well, the BBC has discovered that a Chinese province is mass-educating people in compounds, in such a way as to emphasise Chinese culture and values. They've gone so far, we're told, as to forcibly separate children from parents, keeping them in separate compounds.

It appears that China's concern has been that certain religious / cultural minorities located in China have opted to do no more to integrate than they do elsewhere ... including, but of course, Muslims. This, the Chinese authorities take such exception to that they've decided upon segregation, putting those people in compounds to re-align them to be loyal to Chinese values.

Here's the BBC report on it ..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-48825090


China is deliberately separating Muslim children from their families, faith and language in its far western region of Xinjiang, according to new research.

At the same time as hundreds of thousands of adults are being detained in giant camps, a rapid, large-scale campaign to build boarding schools is under way.

Based on publicly available documents, and backed up by dozens of interviews with family members overseas, the BBC has gathered some of the most comprehensive evidence to date about what is happening to children in the region.

Records show that in one township alone more than 400 children have lost not just one but both parents to some form of internment, either in the camps or in prison.

Formal assessments are carried out to determine whether the children are in need of "centralised care".

Alongside the efforts to transform the identity of Xinjiang's adults, the evidence points to a parallel campaign to systematically remove children from their roots.

China's tight surveillance and control in Xinjiang, where foreign journalists are followed 24 hours a day, make it impossible to gather testimony there. But it can be found in Turkey.

In a large hall in Istanbul, dozens of people queue to tell their stories, many of them clutching photographs of children, all now missing back home in Xinjiang.

"I don't know who is looking after them," one mother says, pointing to a picture of her three young daughters, "there is no contact at all."

Another mother, holding a photo of three sons and a daughter, wipes away her tears. "I heard that they've been taken to an orphanage," she says.

In 54 separate interviews, in wave after wave of anxious, grief-ridden testimony, parents and grandparents give details of the disappearance in Xinjiang of more than 90 children.

The BBC's 'take' on this is plain to see. People here watching these reports are meant to see these re-education efforts as a total outrage (meaning that minorities' insistence upon NOT integrating is fiercely defended).

I'm sure that China has its concerns about Muslim infiltration into their society. This is certainly one Province's answer to it.

I'm interested to see what (if any) reaction to this board members have. I know the bog-standard 'UK-expected' one ... of outrage, sympathy with Muslims ! The BBC is obviously reaching out to get that reaction.

So ... how about here ? Views ... ? .....

[Elessar]

Well, while I do not trust China on the whole, it would seem they
are attempting to keep their culture intact - which is an ancient culture.

I will give them a pass on this issue.

[Drummond]

Well, while I do not trust China on the whole, it would seem they
are attempting to keep their culture intact - which is an ancient culture.

I will give them a pass on this issue.

Yes. That's the reaction I was expecting !

And, I agree with that point of view.

China's a closed society. Not one valuing our Western culture of freedom of expression, which rules out for them tolerating a free-ranging expressiveness in people there. So, they wouldn't see divergence from cultural norms as tolerable.

Particularly, they see their culture and identity as inviolable - patriotism a duty. Which, taken on its own specific merits, is laudable. So, they've acted to preserve it, rather than let it rot away, as many Western societies (such as my own) seem content to allow to happen.

I don't trust China. I don't like the nature of their society one bit. But at least they have the guts to see a problem that we try to ignore, AND to act to remedy it. In one certain sense, I can applaud them for at least that.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Yes. That's the reaction I was expecting !

And, I agree with that point of view.

China's a closed society. Not one valuing our Western culture of freedom of expression, which rules out for them tolerating a free-ranging expressiveness in people there. So, they wouldn't see divergence from cultural norms as tolerable.

Particularly, they see their culture and identity as inviolable - patriotism a duty. Which, taken on its own specific merits, is laudable. So, they've acted to preserve it, rather than let it rot away, as many Western societies (such as my own) seem content to allow to happen.

I don't trust China. I don't like the nature of their society one bit. But at least they have the guts to see a problem that we try to ignore, AND to act to remedy it. In one certain sense, I can applaud them for at least that.

China sees Islam for what it --TRULY-- IS!!!!
And they see that it seeks always to destroy and conquer all that is not Islamic--thus they are an enemy to ever every infidel nation that they-INFEST..
If China takes brutal/harsh actions, I for one do not blame them at all.
ISLAM IS MORE OF A MILITARY/POLITICAL CONQUERING ENTITY THAN IT IS A TRUE RELIGION.
Religion is just its cover! It covers for it being about brutality, conquering and enslaving in order to control the entire world.
1400+ damn years flown by, and that supreme goal has not changed after an estimated 250 million murdered victims later.
Complete with the plan to murder as many millions as it takes to achieve there being only one religion on earth, that of Islam.
And to do so by the sword, rather than by religious conversions made of ones own free will.
To do so by murder, rape, pillaging, terrorism and enslavement..

So yes the Chinese are not blinded as are we , we of western civilization ignorantly thinking that it truly is a religion of peace.. .--Tyr

[Kathianne]

First they come...

https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2019/march/sinicization-china-wants-christianity-churches-more-chinese.html


China Tells Christianity To Be More ChineseIs this a case of government oppression or the Chinese church coming into its own? How to understand “sinicization.”
KERRY SCHOTTELKORB AND JOANN PITTMAN MARCH 20, 2019 9:55 AM

The headlines out of China last week sounded ominous. In strident language not heard in a long time, the head of China’s Protestant church gave a speech supporting the government’s policy of reducing Western influence on religion and making it “more Chinese,” a process dubbed sinicization in English.

Is the move a step toward tighter government control, an opportunity to further indigenize and contextualize the faith, or perhaps both? As with most things in China, the answer is complicated.

...

While religious activities are seen as a normal part of civil society in the West, they are increasingly viewed in China as a threat to national stability, particularly if there is any foreign involvement. The push to sinicize religion is not confined to Protestant Christianity. All five government-sanctioned religious bodies—Buddhism, Daoism, Islam, Catholicism, and Protestantism—have been required to work out sinicization plans.


...

[Gunny]

Well, while I do not trust China on the whole, it would seem they
are attempting to keep their culture intact - which is an ancient culture.

I will give them a pass on this issue.I'm not seeing a problem here. Their business for one thing. Here's a tip: Don't go to China if you don't plan to assimilate.

[Elessar]

I'm not seeing a problem here. Their business for one thing. Here's a tip: Don't go to China if you don't plan to assimilate.

I see no problem. And I have no desire to travel to China in this lifetime.:laugh:

[Drummond]

I'm not seeing a problem here. Their business for one thing. Here's a tip: Don't go to China if you don't plan to assimilate.

Well, quite.

Still .. if this does make 'world news' status, getting wide coverage, just watch Left wingers in my & other countries play the victim card, on behalf of the 'poor, oppressed minorities' just as hard as they can, any way they can.

The BBC report might as well serve as a template for that effort. For much of the past 24 hours, this particular story was the BBC's lead story (riding on the coat-tails of the current political spat we have going on, as it happens, over Hong Kong).

Tyr's take on this latest story is the wise and proper one, and we all need to be fully awake to the reality of how loyal Islamists work. But, here, outfits like the BBC will do their damndest to fight the pro-Muslim corner, all on so-called 'enlightened humanitarian' grounds ....

[Kathianne]

Well, quite.

Still .. if this does make 'world news' status, getting wide coverage, just watch Left wingers in my & other countries play the victim card, on behalf of the 'poor, oppressed minorities' just as hard as they can, any way they can.

The BBC report might as well serve as a template for that effort. For much of the past 24 hours, this particular story was the BBC's lead story (riding on the coat-tails of the current political spat we have going on, as it happens, over Hong Kong).

Tyr's take on this latest story is the wise and proper one, and we all need to be fully awake to the reality of how loyal Islamists work. But, here, outfits like the BBC will do their damndest to fight the pro-Muslim corner, all on so-called 'enlightened humanitarian' grounds ....


They are doing the same to Christians and other religious folks. I think Gunny is likely right on this. Don't want to be a Chinese/socialist/communist/atheist? China may not be the right place for you.

[Drummond]

They are doing the same to Christians and other religious folks. I think Gunny is likely right on this. Don't want to be a Chinese/socialist/communist/atheist? China may not be the right place for you.

Perhaps so. After all, China is determined to see ITS system remain fully dominant.

Of course, what makes the Chinese effort (to the extent this is true) more reprehensible when applied to Christianity, is that Christianity isn't an aggressive belief system utterly determined to inflict its will through the application of forms of force. So, as this is true, China's authorities don't need to 'fear' Christians.

Precisely the opposite is true of Muslims in China, and interestingly, the BBC story screened on BBC News concentrated on Muslims to the exclusion of pretty much everybody else. Those interviewed to tell the BBC of the plight of their 'loved ones' were Muslims .. I don't recall one interview with a Christian.

To Muslims, it'll be the same old story .. an absolute insistence that THEY be considered, that everyone bends to THEM, to THEIR religion, THEIR culture. Because, if there's a real clash, it'll be between Muslims and anyone at all having 'the gall' to oppose them.

Leftist media outfits, and Leftists generally (the Chinese excepted, of course), will fall over themselves to lend them all possible support, and they'll insist on maximum sympathy for their efforts.

[Kathianne]

Perhaps so. After all, China is determined to see ITS system remain fully dominant.

Of course, what makes the Chinese effort (to the extent this is true) more reprehensible when applied to Christianity, is that Christianity isn't an aggressive belief system utterly determined to inflict its will through the application of forms of force. So, as this is true, China's authorities don't need to 'fear' Christians.

Precisely the opposite is true of Muslims in China, and interestingly, the BBC story screened on BBC News concentrated on Muslims to the exclusion of pretty much everybody else. Those interviewed to tell the BBC of the plight of their 'loved ones' were Muslims .. I don't recall one interview with a Christian.

To Muslims, it'll be the same old story .. an absolute insistence that THEY be considered, that everyone bends to THEM. Because, if there's a real clash, it'll be between Muslims and anyone at all having 'the gall' to oppose them.

Leftist media outfits, and Leftists generally (the Chinese excepted, of course), will fall over themselves to lend them all possible support, and they'll insist on maximum sympathy for their efforts.

They fear religion. Truly religious people serve only 1 master.

Communism too allows for only 1.

There is an insurmountable problem with the two above.

[Gunny]

A few issues. Disjointed, but all relevant to one another. The first is, has anyone every noticed that the 3 major, remaining, empires from the "beginning of time" are the ones that haven't listened to the West? China, Russia and Persia, who we have listed as "evil" are all still around while the Nations/civilizations trying to tell them how to act are all circling the drain, including us. They don't give a damn what we think and from a mere existence POV, why should they? They laugh at us and do what they want.

So here "we" (someone from the West -- BBC in this case) are, falling apart at the seams, being invaded by 3rd world miscreants at every turn, trying to tell others what to do.

I've said it countless times long before I knew what a message board was, and every time the topic comes up since, the only way to contain Islam is to contain and/or destroy it. Minus all the tear jerking from the left, thought by sentiment and a complete lack of understanding of the enemy, that is a fact. They are like fire ants. You kill them and kill them and they keep coming back and taking over. How many ragheads do we have in Congress now? It starts with one.

So, if the Chinese want to contain and re-educate them, in China, it's their business as far as I'm concerned. Do note that China is still China despite its proximity to Iran/Persia and all those alphabet soup "-istans" over there. I suspect China, Russia and Persia will be around long after we're not even remembered in history.

As to the comment made about "never been to China", I have. Hong Kong, not mainland China. It's a typical SE Asian 3rd world shit hole like the rest. Nothing to see. Unless you like "buy me drinkee" girls and rot-gut, unpasteurized booze. And inexpensive clothes that are high-dollar once they reach Europe and the States.

If the Chinese want to remain Chinese and retain their culture by decree, it sounds a lot like what our President is doing in regard to illegal immigration. The Chinese just don't seem to have made as big a mess of the whole deal as we have.

[Drummond]

A few issues. Disjointed, but all relevant to one another. The first is, has anyone every noticed that the 3 major, remaining, empires from the "beginning of time" are teh ones that haven't listened to the West? China, Russia and Persia, who we have listed as "evil" are all still around while the Nations/civilizations trying to tell them how to act are all circling the drain, including us. They don't give a damn what we think and from a mere existence POV, why should they? They laugh at us and do what they want.

So here "we" (someone from the West -- BBC in this case), falling apart at the seems, being invaded by 3rd world miscreants at every turn, trying to tell others what to do.

I've said it countless times long before I knew what a message board was, and every time the topic comes up since, the only way to contain Islam is to contain and/or destroy it. Minus all the tear jerking from the left and thought by sentiment and a complete lack of understanding of the enemy, that is a fact. They are like fire ants. You kill them and kill them and they keep coming back and taking over. How many ragheads do we have in Congress now? It starts with one.

So, if the Chinese want to contain and re-educate them, in China, it's their business as far as I'm concerned. Do note that China is still China despite its proximity to Iran/Persia and all those alphabet soup "-istans" over there. I suspect China, Russia and Persia will be around long after we're not even remembered in history.

As to the comment made about "never been to China", I have. Hong Kong, not mainland China. It's a typical SE Asian 3rd world shit hole like the rest. Nothing to see. Unless you like "buy me drinkee" girls and rot-gut, unpasteurized booze. And inexpensive clothes that are high-dollar once they reach Europe and the States.

If the Chinese want to remain Chinese and retain their culture by decree, it sounds a lot like what our President is doing in regard to illegal immigration. The Chinese just don't seem to have made as big a mess of the whole deal as we have.

Interesting points, though there's a lot of qualifying history that shows your comparison to be less than totally valid ... I suggest.

These 'older empires' who haven't listened to the West ... relatively true, though they've had their own seismic upheavals to contend with. China hasn't always been Communist. Russia was run by Tsars before Communism took hold (now essentially dead). Persia doesn't even exist as Persia any more ... and its last Shah DID listen to the West ... he was pro-American in his outlook.

All have changed over time. America, by total contrast, is a young nation, and its Constitution has stood the test of time ... its values intact and enshrined in law.

Hong Kong still has much of its British cultural inheritance pervading the way its population thinks and feels, which goes a long way to explain why that place has its current disagreements with mainland China. If they'd been fully Chinese in their outlook, if they'd never listened to the British or taken any of their values, and these days, nobody there would think twice about any ruling decision China implemented.

Instead, the spirit of freedom is still strong within them .. 'shithole', or not ...

Islam, to say nothing of Leftieism, seems to act much as a virus would. They spread. They infect healthy and fully viable systems, corrupting them, taking them over. China evidently sees Islam and Islamists (yes, and other religions) as an infection with potential to corrupt the otherwise 'healthy' cultural status quo, so, they meet that infection with a very strong remedy for it. And of course, that other infection, called 'Leftieism', fights it off as best it can ... if it can't make an impact in areas immune to it, it instead corrupts more susceptible areas.

Enter the BBC, to do its 'bit' for the 'cause' ...

I'm just annoyed. I know my people, and I know that the BBC's propaganda will be swallowed whole by pretty much everyone here. There's a blindness to the way Islam operates, and even a willingness to pervert their lack of assimilation into a perception of a 'humanitarian cause'.

Incredible, that we've given the Left such latitude, here, to achieve such a success here in terraforming our outlook.

[Drummond]

They fear religion. Truly religious people serve only 1 master.

Communism too allows for only 1.

There is an insurmountable problem with the two above.

From China's perspective, this is valid, though ... I'd still quarrel with any suggestion, however implied rather than asserted outright, that Christianity lacks tolerance or is somehow 'power hungry'. Dedicated Christians would no doubt be defined by the strength of their dedication, true; though we lack the spirit of ruthless conquest which drives Islam, or the equally ruthless rigidity characterising China's Communists.

China is beset by its own demons .. which, I suggest, is not of Christianity's making.

[Gunny]

Interesting points, though there's a lot of qualifying history that shows your comparison to be less than totally valid ... I suggest.

These 'older empires' who haven't listened to the West ... relatively true, though they've had their own seismic upheavals to contend with. China hasn't always been Communist. Russia was run by Tsars before Communism took hold (now essentially dead). Persia doesn't even exist as Persia any more ... and its last Shah DID listen to the West ... he was pro-American in his outlook.

All have changed over time. America, by total contrast, is a young nation, and its Constitution has stood the test of time ... its values intact and enshrined in law.

Hong Kong still has much of its British cultural inheritance pervading the way its population thinks and feels, which goes a long way to explain why that place has its current disagreements with mainland China. If they'd been fully Chinese in their outlook, if they'd never listened to the British or taken any of their values, and these days, nobody there would think twice about any ruling decision China implemented.

Instead, the spirit of freedom is still strong within them .. 'shithole', or not ...

Islam, to say nothing of Leftieism, seems to act much as a virus would. They spread. They infect healthy and fully viable systems, corrupting them, taking them over. China evidently sees Islam and Islamists (yes, and other religions) as an infection with potential to corrupt the otherwise 'healthy' cultural status quo, so, they meet that infection with a very strong remedy for it. And of course, that other infection, called 'Leftieism', fights it off as best it can ... if it can't make an impact in areas immune to it, it instead corrupts more susceptible areas.

Enter the BBC, to do its 'bit' for the 'cause' ...

I'm just annoyed. I know my people, and I know that the BBC's propaganda will be swallowed whole by pretty much everyone here. There's a blindness to the way Islam operates, and even a willingness to pervert their lack of assimilation into a perception of a 'humanitarian cause'.

Incredible, that we've given the Left such latitude, here, to achieve such a success here in terraforming our outlook.Regardless the title, Russia and China have been run by totalitarians since whenever. The Shah was an American puppet and a despot. When China was "democratic", it was corrupt and headed by yet another US puppet. Every US puppet I can think of has been not just a failure, but colossal ones.

The US's Constitution is not doing so well at the moment and any forecast based on the current climate isn't looking good to me either. We're the youngest of the entire lot. I will point out that Greece is still a nation and Rome still a city/state but both are leftover dregs of Empires that ruled the world and were destroyed by their own versions of democracy.

"Spirit of freedom" is a Western notion. Those people have no idea what it is and if you try and explain it to them you get a blank stare. That's why I laugh every time I hear "bringing democracy to ...". You can't bring democracy to people who have no idea what it is. We (the West) ASSUME they want it, judging them by OUR standards, not theirs.

There IS still a British sector in Hong Kong. It's a LOT different than where the Chinese live. It's definitely more European while the main city is decidedly Asian.

The BBC was just looking for something to cover other than the US's 4th of July celebration hosted by President Trump. They are just doing their part to help out the US MSM in a "time of need":rolleyes: It's a typical ploy of the left and small children. diversion and minding everyone's business but their own.

The issue itself is what I've said from the start. None of our business. Our government isn't even functioning yet we're right in there telling everyone else how to act.

[Kathianne]

From China's perspective, this is valid, though ... I'd still quarrel with any suggestion, however implied rather than asserted outright, that Christianity lacks tolerance or is somehow 'power hungry'. Dedicated Christians would no doubt be defined by the strength of their dedication, true; though we lack the spirit of ruthless conquest which drives Islam, or the equally ruthless rigidity characterising China's Communists.

China is beset by its own demons .. which, I suggest, is not of Christianity's making.

I did not imply nor do I think that Christianity is power hungry.

[Gunny]

I did not imply nor do I think that Christianity is power hungry.My best guess is that which religion/belief it is is irrelevant to China. It either supports China, is benign, or is an enemy.

Considering China's past, I'd say they're getting kind of soft just reeducating nonbelievers. They used to kill them.