Poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids

[hjmick]

I have to think that dear old Uncle Joe is done. If he doesn't quit before the next debate, he'd be a bigger fool than I thought. The rest of the pack will jump on this and devour the man...


...Speaking at an event sponsored by the Asian & Latino Coalition PAC in Iowa, the former vice president said, “We have this notion that somehow if you’re poor you cannot do it. Poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids,” Biden said, pausing for a moment of reluctant applause. “Wealthy kids, black kids, Asian kids,” he continued. “No, I really mean it, but think how we think about it.”


Joe Biden's latest gaffe raises eyebrows: 'Poor kids are just as bright' as 'white kids' (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/joe-bidens-latest-gaffe-raises-eyebrows-poor-kids-are-just-as-bright-as-white-kids/ar-AAFArOs)


He really should go back to committing plagiarism to get material for his speeches. This speaking from his heart(?), off the cuff, stream of consciousness stuff doesn't work out well for Joe...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM19YOqs7hU&app=desktop

[Kathianne]

and yesterday his said, 'there are at least 3 genders...'

Of course his audience may buy that one.

Unless someone else steps in though, I think he may still be the nominee.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

He recently was asked to comment on how President Trump is dealing with China, and he gave a minute and a half rambling line of utter incoherent babble that left everyone wondering, what in the hell did he just say.

Yeah... creepy groper uncle Joe is toast.

[Gunny]

So, looking at the thread title alone, the first question that pops into MY head is: What about poor, white kids? Oh yeah. Those of us that had nothing but the public/Base library and educated ourselves don't count.

Anyone that WANTS TO BE educated can find a way. Seems to me, poor, non-white kids have a lot more advantages than those of us that don't count.

[Kathianne]

So, looking at the thread title alone, the first question that pops into MY head is: What about poor, white kids? Oh yeah. Those of us that had nothing but the public/Base library and educated ourselves don't count.

Anyone that WANTS TO BE educated can find a way. Seems to me, poor, non-white kids have a lot more advantages than those of us that don't count.

and girls much more opportunities than boys.

[Gunny]

and girls much more opportunities than boys.Well that just sucks. Guess I can't get any lower on the totem pole :laugh:

Opportunities can be limited for different people. My opinion is that's more of a social/parenting issue than an opportunity one and definitely has nothing to do with sun tan or gender. I'll revise that, I'd say girls have less opportunity than any colored folk because of the Suzy Homemaker mentality.

But how many of these so-called opportunity-less people are opportunity-less because of their own choices, not what is available to them? Versus how many of them strive to be the coolest guy in the gang?

[Kathianne]

Well that just sucks. Guess I can't get any lower on the totem pole :laugh:

Opportunities can be limited for different people. My opinion is that's more of a social/parenting issue than an opportunity one and definitely has nothing to do with sun tan or gender. I'll revise that, I'd say girls have less opportunity than any colored folk because of the Suzy Homemaker mentality.

But how many of these so-called opportunity-less people are opportunity-less because of their own choices, not what is available to them? Versus how many of them strive to be the coolest guy in the gang?


Suzy homemaker mentality died off 25 or more years ago. Schools used to give recess to let boys have some time out of desks, reading and writing. Not anymore.

Unlike many, I do think there are some kids that need help regarding attention-but only a small single-fraction of those on meds.

Today society, not just schools expect boys to behave as girls. It doesn't work well and the efforts have all sorts of repercussions. Not only the white ones, with their privileges, but all boys.

Check out ACT/SAT scores for past 30 years. Check out college entrance numbers, which are better than the graduation rates. Check out engineering hiring by sexes over the past 10-15 years, following said graduation rates.

It's systemic discrimination.

[Gunny]

Suzy homemaker mentality died off 25 or more years ago. Schools used to give recess to let boys have some time out of desks, reading and writing. Not anymore.

Unlike many, I do think there are some kids that need help regarding attention-but only a small single-fraction of those on meds.

Today society, not just schools expect boys to behave as girls. It doesn't work well and the efforts have all sorts of repercussions. Not only the white ones, with their privileges, but all boys.

Check out ACT/SAT scores for past 30 years. Check out college entrance numbers, which are better than the graduation rates. Check out engineering hiring by sexes over the past 10-15 years, following said graduation rates.

It's systemic discrimination.The suzy homemaker mentality might have been legislated out by social engineering, but like any other social engineering, it's a failure IMO. Regardless what any expert says, you aren't going to slap a piece of legislation down and change the way a society thinks. Forcing certain elements to comply via legislation or be fined or lose government subsidies if they don't changes exactly only that.

One of the biggest eye-openers to me was when the first wife left. I had literally not had anything to do with civilians in 13 years. I had no reason to. The military is the US government's social engineering laboratory because they have a captive audience that can't say no. I was absolutely shocked when I first started going around civilians. I was from a world where everybody was equal except those who got over from affirmative action. There was no racism nor gender bias in my brain housing group.

THEN I ran into the civilian world where people say and do what they want. Racism, gender bias and or other forms of discrimination were everywhere. The guys next door don't go anywhere without a fresh beer in the console.

Have I mentioned I am not overly fond of the way civilians do things? Y'all are nuts.

[Kathianne]

The suzy homemaker mentality might have been legislated out by social engineering, but like any other social engineering, it's a failure IMO. Regardless what any expert says, you aren't going to slap a piece of legislation down and change the way a society thinks. Forcing certain elements to comply via legislation or be fined or lose government subsidies if they don't changes exactly only that.

One of the biggest eye-openers to me was when the first wife left. I had literally not had anything to do with civilians in 13 years. I had no reason to. The military is the US government's social engineering laboratory because they have a captive audience that can't say no. I was absolutely shocked when I first started going around civilians. I was from a world where everybody was equal except those who got over from affirmative action. There was no racism nor gender bias in my brain housing group.

THEN I ran into the civilian world where people say and do what they want. Racism, gender bias and or other forms of discrimination were everywhere. The guys next door don't go anywhere without a fresh beer in the console.

Have I mentioned I am not overly fond of the way civilians do things? Y'all are nuts.


I don't know where you are, but in IL and AZ, women are pretty much ruling the schools and boys are falling by the wayside. This was true 15 years ago when I first started teaching and it's only gotten worse.

Those at top of their high schools are going to university, regardless of family resources. Take in the additional pluses given for gender and race, boom.

[Kathianne]

https://www.mindingthecampus.org/2019/01/03/why-men-are-falling-behind-in-schools/

http://www.hamiltonproject.org/ee-ce-image/made/assets/img/uploads/charts/03_rates_postsecondary_enrollment_completion_gende r_1080_716_80.jpg

[Gunny]

I don't know where you are, but in IL and AZ, women are pretty much ruling the schools and boys are falling by the wayside. This was true 15 years ago when I first started teaching and it's only gotten worse.

Those at top of their high schools are going to university, regardless of family resources. Take in the additional pluses given for gender and race, boom.Doesn't affect me re: schools. I have 2 daughters. I have 2 granddaughters. The prodigy's got a few more years before school :)

Women were the majority of teachers when I was in school. It wasn't about them being women. It was and is about what they're teaching. Women have a lock on anything they can cry discrimination about. The newscasters used to be men. Now it's women, minority women and gays.

This is just part of the bigger picture of what happens when you have a nation that caters its laws to minorities. They get to squeal. White guys don't. We just need to suck it up, get to work, and do the catering. And you're right. It's just getting worse. It's dumbed our country down.

Case in point and back to the military: There are race and gender quotas for promotion in the military. If a white person is more qualified than the minority and the data says "short one black female" then you get the less qualified officer. Bullets don't check minority status. They a re equal opportunity except they tend to find the dumbasses first. And whoever that dumbass is leading. You can just imagine what I think about quotas when the job is accomplish the mission and stay alive and bring all your people back with you.

And I'm not trying to exaggerate the issue by using the military. That's the world I had to deal with and the reality of social engineering's impact on it.

[Kathianne]

Doesn't affect me re: schools. I have 2 daughters. I have 2 granddaughters. The prodigy's got a few more years before school :)

Women were the majority of teachers when I was in school. It wasn't about them being women. It was and is about what they're teaching. Women have a lock on anything they can cry discrimination about. The newscasters used to be men. Now it's women, minority women and gays.

This is just part of the bigger picture of what happens when you have a nation that caters its laws to minorities. They get to squeal. White guys don't. We just need to suck it up, get to work, and do the catering. And you're right. It's just getting worse. It's dumbed our country down.

Case in point and back to the military: There are race and gender quotas for promotion in the military. If a white person is more qualified than the minority and the data says "short one black female" then you get the less qualified officer. Bullets don't check minority status. They a re equal opportunity except they tend to find the dumbasses first. And whoever that dumbass is leading. You can just imagine what I think about quotas when the job is accomplish the mission and stay alive and bring all your people back with you.

And I'm not trying to exaggerate the issue by using the military. That's the world I had to deal with and the reality of social engineering's impact on it.

They are not 'sucking it up,' they are acting out young, dropping out in their teens, joining gangs, and getting high. They aren't marrying, indeed they don't even want to contemplate marriage or children.

[Gunny]

They are not 'sucking it up,' they are acting out young, dropping out in their teens, joining gangs, and getting high. They aren't marrying, indeed they don't even want to contemplate marriage or children.The embodiment of your statement resides in my house otherwise known as the SIL's (who is dumb enough on his own but he will at least work) 16 years old son.

This boy does absolutely nothing. When I think of the crap I had to do at 16 (not to mention a job) and look at his worthless ass it almost makes me ill. He's entitled to any and everything and we're just here to do all the work and provide him with crap. :rolleyes:

[FakeNewsSux]

So, looking at the thread title alone, the first question that pops into MY head is: What about poor, white kids? Oh yeah. Those of us that had nothing but the public/Base library and educated ourselves don't count.

Anyone that WANTS TO BE educated can find a way. Seems to me, poor, non-white kids have a lot more advantages than those of us that don't count.

Careful Gunny, your white privilege is showing. Don't you know there aren't any poor white kids in this white supremacist society.

[Gunny]

Careful Gunny, your white privilege is showing. Don't you know there aren't any poor white kids in this white supremacist society.Hmmm. Must be the library card that outed me :)

[High_Plains_Drifter]

I don't know where you are, but in IL and AZ, women are pretty much ruling the schools and boys are falling by the wayside. This was true 15 years ago when I first started teaching and it's only gotten worse.

Those at top of their high schools are going to university, regardless of family resources. Take in the additional pluses given for gender and race, boom.
So THAT'S where all this TOXIC MASCULINITY stuff is coming from... :rolleyes: ... :laugh:

[Kathianne]

So THAT'S where all this TOXIC MASCULINITY stuff is coming from... :rolleyes: ... :laugh:

It's really not funny. Back in the 60's boys certainly got the nuns attentions more than girls, but when most of them were getting restless it was time to get up for water/bathroom break. Or for spelling bee. Or on nice days, 10 minutes of recess. I even remember doing calisthenics in the room. The girls liked the breaks, but they were for the boys and we all knew it. Girls can sit quietly and pass notes or nod and wink at a friend. Boys? They tended to flick notes, which means they'd get caught. LOL! They'd try to rock their chairs-which were 1 piece! of desk and chair. Not discrete.

Somewhere along the line, college education departments started to focus on 'lost minutes' via disruptions. School boards and principals started to say, 'No unscheduled recess.' Not as restrictive in private schools, but in public schools it became more and more restrictive up to today.

Last year at the school I was at, the class periods were 90 minutes long. Kids had 4 per day. Gym was the only class that isn't a sit for 90 minutes. That is for 13 and 14 year olds. Again, not a big issue for girls, but the boys were nutso after 40-45 minutes. The best one could do is have them walk around the room on a 'gallery tour' of either art work or original documents and take notes. Some days it would work, some not. They had 3 minutes between classes. I can't imagine what 3rd or 4th graders were like. Add to the mix that the average reading level in most of my classes was around 3rd grade and one can see where 'original documents' was not a great source of relief.

What do bored boys do when they're over their heads and walking around? Bump into one another. Add in gang affiliations and it would be a shut down gallery walk event. Not good for teachers, kids.

Because of the gang issues, they couldn't even play basketball or anything after eating lunch, they had to SIT! So stupid.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

It's really not funny.
I don't suppose so coming from your perspective. You've witnessed it all up close and personal, and obviously know more about it than I do.

I guess my attempt at levity failed.

[Kathianne]

I don't suppose so coming from your perspective. You've witnessed it all up close and personal, and obviously know more about it than I do.

I guess my attempt at levity failed.

Oh no, I didn't mean it that way. I just don't think most adults get how toxic the schools are for boys, more than the other way around.

There's no doubt that girls always have exceeded boys in reading and most in math until around 4th or 5th grade, when boys settle down for a bit. Girl behaviors are by and large school approved. As long as they have a friend or two, they can pay attention or do a good imitation of doing so. They are quieter and more observant in a classroom situation-they always know where the teacher is and where she is looking. Boys just move. ;) They are punished more, always have been, because they get caught easily.

If I ran the world, boys and girls would have separate schools from 4-8th grades, maybe even high school. There's lots of reasons why, though I don't want to write a dissertation on it right now. Did some long posts last night on Europe threads. LOL!

[High_Plains_Drifter]

If I ran the world, boys and girls would have separate schools from 4-8th grades, maybe even high school. There's lots of reasons why, though I don't want to write a dissertation on it right now. Did some long posts last night on Europe threads. LOL!
What a NOVEL idea. I like it.

[Gunny]

It's really not funny. Back in the 60's boys certainly got the nuns attentions more than girls, but when most of them were getting restless it was time to get up for water/bathroom break. Or for spelling bee. Or on nice days, 10 minutes of recess. I even remember doing calisthenics in the room. The girls liked the breaks, but they were for the boys and we all knew it. Girls can sit quietly and pass notes or nod and wink at a friend. Boys? They tended to flick notes, which means they'd get caught. LOL! They'd try to rock their chairs-which were 1 piece! of desk and chair. Not discrete.

Somewhere along the line, college education departments started to focus on 'lost minutes' via disruptions. School boards and principals started to say, 'No unscheduled recess.' Not as restrictive in private schools, but in public schools it became more and more restrictive up to today.

Last year at the school I was at, the class periods were 90 minutes long. Kids had 4 per day. Gym was the only class that isn't a sit for 90 minutes. That is for 13 and 14 year olds. Again, not a big issue for girls, but the boys were nutso after 40-45 minutes. The best one could do is have them walk around the room on a 'gallery tour' of either art work or original documents and take notes. Some days it would work, some not. They had 3 minutes between classes. I can't imagine what 3rd or 4th graders were like. Add to the mix that the average reading level in most of my classes was around 3rd grade and one can see where 'original documents' was not a great source of relief.

What do bored boys do when they're over their heads and walking around? Bump into one another. Add in gang affiliations and it would be a shut down gallery walk event. Not good for teachers, kids.

Because of the gang issues, they couldn't even play basketball or anything after eating lunch, they had to SIT! So stupid.

You make that sound like a bad thing :halo9:

I couldn't get through school in today's climate. Because I am white, I would be the one punished, not passed, deserving or not. 90 minutes is too long. We didn't even make recruits sit that long in boot camp. That would be around 80 of your aforementioned "boys" :)

My biggest problem with school was staying in it. I made straight As. When I was there. Why? Because you can cut your time assessment in half with me. 30 minutes and I was done. Usually with my work, homework and was working on flicking notes at one of you girls (while teetering on 2 desk legs):)

[Kathianne]

You make that sound like a bad thing :halo9:

I couldn't get through school in today's climate. Because I am white, I would be the one punished, not passed, deserving or not. 90 minutes is too long. We didn't even make recruits sit that long in boot camp. That would be around 80 of your aforementioned "boys" :)

My biggest problem with school was staying in it. I made straight As. When I was there. Why? Because you can cut your time assessment in half with me. 30 minutes and I was done. Usually with my work, homework and was working on flicking notes at one of you girls (while teetering on 2 desk legs):)

Most boys by 13 are good for 30-40 minutes, beyond that is iffy. What used to be accepted and adapted to, has now been made into 'a behavior issue.' That issue is being male. It's wrong and I've said so for years. Now give them 90 minute classes and stupid abounds.

White, black, or whatever, has nothing to do with the issue for most teachers, (like cops, there's always that one.)

[Gunny]

Most boys by 13 are good for 30-40 minutes, beyond that is iffy. What used to be accepted and adapted to, has now been made into 'a behavior issue.' That issue is being male. It's wrong and I've said so for years. Now give them 90 minute classes and stupid abounds.

White, black, or whatever, has nothing to do with the issue for most teachers, (like cops, there's always that one.)Agree 100%. I think blaming males for acting like males is stupid.

Nobody is learning anything if you have no real communication with the student. Unrealistic expectations usually results in failure for the child and the teacher.

[Kathianne]

Agree 100%. I think blaming males for acting like males is stupid.

Nobody is learning anything if you have no real communication with the student. Unrealistic expectations usually results in failure for the child and the teacher.

and they don't care. I'm like some idiot, whistling in the wind. That is why I'm not a good fit with public schools and am trying to get a private gig. Until that, I'll sub.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

and they don't care. I'm like some idiot, whistling in the wind. That is why I'm not a good fit with public schools and am trying to get a private gig. Until that, I'll sub.
For what it's worth, I think you're probably a good teacher.

Did you ever consider being a college professor?

Two of my cousins, brother and sister in fact, My Ma's sister's kids, are both college professors. One teaches math, the other sociology. Ironically it's my female cousin that teaches the math. Both at UW Platteville, WI.

[Kathianne]

For what it's worth, I think you're probably a good teacher.

Did you ever consider being a college professor?

Two of my cousins, brother and sister in fact, My Ma's sister's kids, are both college professors. One teaches math, the other sociology. Ironically it's my female cousin that teaches the math. Both at UW Platteville, WI.

If you all think I can be sarcastic here, should have seen me with education course professors.

BTW, I am an excellent teacher. ;) Shockingly I do know my subject matter well enough to make it interesting for nearly all. Public schools are better in IL, but the core problems remain-most of which are put in place via the geniuses in university education departments. So many tools are found there-that is for whom, "Those that can't do, teach." They can't teach kids, so they teach want-to-be teachers. I had 1 education professor that was sane enough that I didn't worry about her getting from her office to class. She was special ed professor and actually seemed to understand kids.

I've thought of teaching Constitution at community college, really need a doctorate for colleges. I'm not spending any more $$ on degrees-got enough of those. LOL!

[High_Plains_Drifter]

If you all think I can be sarcastic here, should have seen me with education course professors.

BTW, I am an excellent teacher. ;) Shockingly I do know my subject matter well enough to make it interesting for nearly all. Public schools are better in IL, but the core problems remain-most of which are put in place via the geniuses in university education departments. So many tools are found there-that is for whom, "Those that can't do, teach." They can't teach kids, so they teach want-to-be teachers. I had 1 education professor that was sane enough that I didn't worry about her getting from her office to class. She was special ed professor and actually seemed to understand kids.

I've thought of teaching Constitution at community college, really need a doctorate for colleges. I'm not spending any more $$ on degrees-got enough of those. LOL!
Do you miss ILL? Ever think of moving back?

I'd probably have a PHD myself if you added up all the schooling I've had... if it worked that way.

[Kathianne]

Do you miss ILL? Ever think of moving back?

I'd probably have a PHD myself if you added up all the schooling I've had... if it worked that way.
I do not miss IL, though I miss family and friends. I wish I could visit more and vice versa. Now Blago coming back? It's so IL. Just a bit sick thinking of that.

[Elessar]

I was a Phys Ed and English major.

Learned way back then the max time to prevent losing students interest in Jr. high and high school was
45 minutes per class. Any more and they got itchy.

Did student teaching observations and one day saw a guy kick a teacher in the butt after he had bent over to pick
up litter in the hall. I went after him and my 'guide' teacher said you cannot go after him, need 3 witnesses.

I had wanted to be an English and speech teacher as well as a football and track coach. After that, I
had serious reservations. And this was in WV, Not NY, IL, or CA.

[Elessar]

Hinge on this topic for a bit.

The first level of education comes in the home, family. I and Neil's step-dad started teaching him the abc's
and how to read when he was 2 years old. When he was 4, started teaching him multiplication tables and
basic math. By the time he was a sophomore in high school he had won county Math Counts competition
and was selected to be in the State-wide competition. He came out third, but even by then he had taken
calculus and told me it was boring.

Now he has a doctorate.

Education begins at home!

[Gunny]

I do not miss IL, though I miss family and friends. I wish I could visit more and vice versa. Now Blago coming back? It's so IL. Just a bit sick thinking of that.I actually liked where I lived in IL. What I didn't lie is that Chicago politics decides everything for everyone when most of the state is nothing like Chicago. Taxes on top of cost of living was not cool at all.

Same anywhere though. The huge, left wing cities control the states no matter how out of touch they are.

[STTAB]

So, looking at the thread title alone, the first question that pops into MY head is: What about poor, white kids? Oh yeah. Those of us that had nothing but the public/Base library and educated ourselves don't count.

Anyone that WANTS TO BE educated can find a way. Seems to me, poor, non-white kids have a lot more advantages than those of us that don't count.

Don't be THAT guy Gunny. Biden isn't a racist lol, he's just a doddering old fool who can't speak clearly. He meant to wealthy kids, not white kids.

[Kathianne]

More of should be present:

https://www.intellectualtakeout.org/article/why-us-schools-dont-produce-adults



Why U.S. Schools Don’t Produce Adults


Annie Holmquist | August 8, 2017

One of the hallmarks of modern America is the tendency toward prolonged childhood. While it used to be the norm to enter the adult working world by one’s mid-to-late teens, students now extend their preparation for career well into their twenties (and sometimes beyond), enabled by parents who act as their caretakers, education experts who insist that they get as much classroom education as possible, and a government that encourages them to stay on the family health plan until age 26.


Many Americans seem tired of this prolonged childhood and are longing for the days when young people were ready and willing to provide for themselves by the time they finished high school. The question is, how can American young people break out of this mold?


One solution that seems to be simmering beneath the surface is the rising interest in allowing teens to work in various job settings for high school credit. As a recent article in The Hechinger Report explains, that option is one which is being expanded in Vermont high schools.


The interesting thing about Vermont’s work-based learning program is that the high school credit it offers isn’t just for fluff experiences like basket-weaving, nor are the job settings limited to those in traditional manufacturing trades. Instead, they provide math and science credits to students working with engineers, economics credits to those working in the financial sector, and English credits to those writing under the supervision of music critics:

...



https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/11/politics/top-secret-teens-nsa/index.html




Top secret teens: The high schoolers recruited by the National Security Agency
Alex Marquardt profile
By Alex Marquardt, CNN


Updated 4:03 PM ET, Sun August 11, 2019

Fort Meade, Maryland (CNN)Summer's high school friends think she's monitoring their phones and listening in on their conversations. They speculate about the "wild things" she does at work and jokingly accuse her of being a spy.


"They like to have fun with it," Summer says. But her friends might be forgiven because when the 18-year-old wasn't in class at her Maryland high school this past school year, she was at her job in the sprawling National Security Agency complex at Fort Meade in Maryland.


There, she works "somewhat in cyber," she responds cryptically when asked what someone in their teens would be asked to do for the NSA, which leads the American intelligence community's electronic signals intelligence gathering and code-breaking efforts.


Equally cagey on that front are Brianna and Simon, two other high school seniors who interned at the NSA, who said over the past year they worked in language translation and cyber, respectively. Their last names are being withheld for security reasons.



The trio -- who are all 18 and just graduated from high schools in Maryland - are among the more than 150 high schoolers in a work study program at the agency which gives them access and exposure to some of the country's most sensitive information and secret efforts. For that they need TS/SCI, more commonly known as Top Secret security clearance, as high as clearances go. No small feat to get (just ask Jared Kushner) and a weighty responsibility for anyone, let alone teenagers from a generation that shares everything.


...