'The SNP's Dastardly Plan' ....

[Drummond]

This thread draws from a newspaper story I spotted a short while ago.

You will, of course, all know about the UK's exit from the EU ... 'Brexit'.

A core reason for the overall UK pro-Brexit vote was so that the UK could get control of its own borders, and control of who does or does not qualify as a resident citizen of the UK.

.... so. Enter the Scottish Nationalist Party (SNP) on to the scene. Their very reason for existence is to fight for, and win, independence from the rest of the UK for Scotland. They currently govern Scotland, and if I'm to be fair, I need to acknowledge that they rule in Scotland with a very decisive electoral majority.

.... Now, then. A few years ago, Scotland was given a so-called 'one in a lifetime' Referendum vote on the matter of Scottish independence. Despite the SNP's popularity, they nevertheless lost that vote.

However, the SNP has never wanted to let the matter lie. They still work hard, to find a way of getting independence for Scotland.

So, in December 2019, Boris's Conservatives won their UK election .. decisively. So much so that Boris can simply say 'NO' to the SNP's request for a further Referendum, & make it stick.

Nicola Sturgeon, leader of the SNP, made that request. Surprising nobody ... Boris said 'NO', not for as long as he remained PM.

So, now, Sturgeon thinks she has a way of manipulating things in her favour. See this:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1250215/scotland-news-snp-nicola-sturgeon-scotland-immigration-brexit-news?fbclid=IwAR3V0JKB60DPhMT4X8eIW2ivbGxwIrTWsWY0 x0yCby4G638BNIXspRveBRc


NICOLA Sturgeon could bypass Boris Johnson's plans for Britain's borders after Brexit by keeping freedom of movement after the UK's exit from the EU.

A senior group of immigration lawyers, working on behalf of the Scottish Government, said Scotland could fight to keep the EU’s freedom of movement rules while remaining within the UK. Experts at the Fragomen legal firm said it would be “entirely possible” to amend legislation going through the Commons in a report commissioned by Nicola Sturgeon’s Scottish National Party.

This move would be a direct challenge to Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s plans for an Australian point-style immigration system.

It is also evidence of the SNP’s wider plan to keep Scotland tied to the EU despite the UK’s momentous decision to unshackle itself from the bloc.

The report said: “Free movement is currently given effect through the Immigration Act 1971."

“The Act is likely to be amended by the Immigration Bill 2020 to remove free movement for the UK as a whole.

“A more limited amendment could potentially allow free movement to continue in Scotland.

“As now, Europeans would be free to travel to Scotland and start work without an immigration document, relying instead on their European passport or other acceptable documents.”

The report also said Scotland could introduce “emergency visa measures” to deal with “immediate economic threat associated with Brexit”.

Ian Robinson, a partner at Fragomen, told The National: “It would be entirely possible to operate a Scottish immigration system distinct from the wider UK, or even continuing free movement in Scotland.

“With many rural areas of Scotland having a dependency on foreign workers, businesses and sectors leads are echoing the concerns around their ability to retain staff from overseas.

If the SNP could manage to rejig things so that the Scottish border is once again open to the EU's freedom of movement diktat ... this undermines Brexit as a whole. EU citizens could go to Scotland as though - effectively - Scotland were still a part of the EU. As Scotland would be nonetheless a part of the UK, Scottish law would protect Europeans from Brexit strictures if they remained within Scotland. If Scotland then conferred full Scottish citizenship upon them, this would then give them UK citizen status ... and so, they'd be free, once more, to go wherever in the UK they chose.

From the SNP's point of view, they get all that they want. The SNP is very pro-Europe, so they'd happily return Scotland back to whatever EU rules they could, and freedom of movement was a fundamental Brexit justification (.. to reverse it !). To undo the freedom of movement damage done to the rest of the UK ... Boris would then need to cease to recognise Scotland as a member of the UK, so that the UK's borders could become secure once more.

So, the SNP win. They get Independence ... despite the Scottish Referendum's decisive 'NO' vote, from years ago. They then apply for, and presumably get, membership of the EU, reversing Brexit in Scotland entirely.

All this would be bound to lead to the break-up of the UK.

In case anyone could doubt it, this slimy, underhand way of reversing Brexit has the hallmark of Leftie deviance behind it. But for their Nationalist imperative, the SNP would be indistinguishable from any other hard-Left political entity in the world today.

So it is that the SNP is contriving to smash up Brexit.

As the article I quoted above makes clear, their 'excuse' for all of this is to say that until Brexit, we could rely on European immigration to cover shortfalls of manpower in the jobs market. With Brexit enacted, that resource ceases to be a freely-flowing one .. to which Scotland would argue that it must have more Europeans entering their country. It therefore needs to arrange it. Hence, their Brexit-wrecking strategy .... & to hell with the electorate (of course).

Ain't Lefties 'wonderful', eh ..... :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Gunny]

This thread draws from a newspaper story I spotted a short while ago.

You will, of course, all know about the UK's exit from the EU ... 'Brexit'.

A core reason for the overall UK pro-Brexit vote was so that the UK could get control of its own borders, and control of who does or does not qualify as a resident citizen of the UK.

.... so. Enter the Scottish Nationalist Party (SNP) on to the scene. Their very reason for existence is to fight for, and win, independence from the rest of the UK for Scotland. They currently govern Scotland, and if I'm to be fair, I need to acknowledge that they rule in Scotland with a very decisive electoral majority.

.... Now, then. A few years ago, Scotland was given a so-called 'one in a lifetime' Referendum vote on the matter of Scottish independence. Despite the SNP's popularity, they nevertheless lost that vote.

However, the SNP has never wanted to let the matter lie. They still work hard, to find a way of getting independence for Scotland.

So, in December 2019, Boris's Conservatives won their UK election .. decisively. So much so that Boris can simply say 'NO' to the SNP's request for a further Referendum, & make it stick.

Nicola Sturgeon, leader of the SNP, made that request. Surprising nobody ... Boris said 'NO', not for as long as he remained PM.

So, now, Sturgeon thinks she has a way of manipulating things in her favour. See this:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1250215/scotland-news-snp-nicola-sturgeon-scotland-immigration-brexit-news?fbclid=IwAR3V0JKB60DPhMT4X8eIW2ivbGxwIrTWsWY0 x0yCby4G638BNIXspRveBRc



If the SNP could manage to rejig things so that the Scottish border is once again open to the EU's freedom of movement diktat ... this undermines Brexit as a whole. EU citizens could go to Scotland as though - effectively - Scotland were still a part of the EU. As Scotland would be nonetheless a part of the UK, Scottish law would protect Europeans from Brexit strictures if they remained within Scotland. If Scotland then conferred full Scottish citizenship upon them, this would then give them UK citizen status ... and so, they'd be free, once more, to go wherever in the UK they chose.

From the SNP's point of view, they get all that they want. The SNP is very pro-Europe, so they'd happily return Scotland back to whatever EU rules they could, and freedom of movement was a fundamental Brexit justification (.. to reverse it !). To undo the freedom of movement damage done to the rest of the UK ... Boris would then need to cease to recognise Scotland as a member of the UK, so that the UK's borders could become secure once more.

So, the SNP win. They get Independence ... despite the Scottish Referendum's decisive 'NO' vote, from years ago. They then apply for, and presumably get, membership of the EU, reversing Brexit in Scotland entirely.

All this would be bound to lead to the break-up of the UK.

In case anyone could doubt it, this slimy, underhand way of reversing Brexit has the hallmark of Leftie deviance behind it. But for their Nationalist imperative, the SNP would be indistinguishable from any other hard-Left political entity in the world today.

So it is that the SNP is contriving to smash up Brexit.

As the article I quoted above makes clear, their 'excuse' for all of this is to say that until Brexit, we could rely on European immigration to cover shortfalls of manpower in the jobs market. With Brexit enacted, that resource ceases to be a freely-flowing one .. to which Scotland would argue that it must have more Europeans entering their country. It therefore needs to arrange it. Hence, their Brexit-wrecking strategy .... & to hell with the electorate (of course).

Ain't Lefties 'wonderful', eh ..... :rolleyes::rolleyes:What happens to Scotland as a whole if Britain shuts down the Scotland/England border? Who suffers most?

[Drummond]

What happens to Scotland as a whole if Britain shuts down the Scotland/England border? Who suffers most?

Materially speaking, given enough time (though I don't think the SNP would ever believe it) ... it'd be Scotland that would suffer more. I'm sure of it.

However ... how could that border be shut down ? Since Scotland is a part of the UK, the 'porous' nature of the border is guaranteed. People within the UK go from one UK country to another without any form of national paperwork requiring any sort of check or scrutiny. Indeed, in that sense, it's essentially the same as EU Member State countries.

Short of granting Scotland independence from the UK, I don't see how closing the border could ever be legally justified (.. OK, we've got the current Coronavirus scare ... as a temporary measure, I daresay that it could be closed (or heavily 'policed') for the length of the emergency).

As a more permanent measure, it could only come about by giving the SNP what they most crave; so, what you suggest is a way of guaranteeing the SNP the victory they're working towards.

It'd also undoubtedly polarise opinion in Scotland ... with the waverers thinking that border closure was proof that the rest of the UK had to be seen as an adversarial political force ... as proof of an 'us versus them' status quo. The SNP would capitalise to the hilt on that sentiment.

[Gunny]

Materially speaking, given enough time (though I don't think the SNP would ever believe it) ... it'd be Scotland that would suffer more. I'm sure of it.

However ... how could that border be shut down ? Since Scotland is a part of the UK, the 'porous' nature of the border is guaranteed. People within the UK go from one UK country to another without any form of national paperwork requiring any sort of check or scrutiny. Indeed, in that sense, it's essentially the same as EU Member State countries.

Short of granting Scotland independence from the UK, I don't see how closing the border could ever be legally justified (.. OK, we've got the current Coronavirus scare ... as a temporary measure, I daresay that it could be closed (or heavily 'policed') for the length of the emergency).

As a more permanent measure, it could only come about by giving the SNP what they most crave; so, what you suggest is a way of guaranteeing the SNP the victory they're working towards.

It'd also undoubtedly polarise opinion in Scotland ... with the waverers thinking that border closure was proof that the rest of the UK had to be seen as an adversarial political force ... as proof of an 'us versus them' status quo. The SNP would capitalise to the hilt on that sentiment.I figured anyone making a hardass move like that is about as likely as me re-growing hair.

So, what is the solution? Just hope public opinion on both sides of the aisle is with you?

[Drummond]

I figured anyone making a hardass move like that is about as likely as me re-growing hair.

So, what is the solution? Just hope public opinion on both sides of the aisle is with you?

Looking at the SNP's tactics dispassionately and without bias, I'd have to judge that the SNP has come up with a good and effective strategy. Difficult to see what an effective counter to it would be.

Taking 'Coronavirus' out of it ... had that never happened ... I'd just be saying that Boris would need to launch a propaganda offensive. One that points out (correctly, of course) Scotland's decision in their own Referendum to stay in the UK, not go for independence. At the time, it was clearly understood that the decision taken should last for at least a generation. The SNP is trying to railroad a change long before any should be on the cards.

I'd also say that when Scotland took place in that other Referendum, in 2016, they did so NOT as an individual country, but as a constituent part of the UK. This is important, because the SNP continually carps on about how Scots voted for 'Remain' ... and they always 'forget' that Scotland did not vote AT ALL as its own separate country. Therefore .. having decided to remain in the UK just two years previously, they should be respecting a UK-wide decision, and be - therefore - fully behind the Brexit decision, accepting it and its application to Scotland.

Freedom of movement issues, therefore, should be uniformly applied throughout the UK.

If I was in Boris's shoes, I'd be saying all this, and as loudly as possible.

NOW, though, we have 'Coronavirus' to contend with. The case could be made that to re-institute freedom of movement with Covid-19 hanging about, is an act of pure madness. By and large, mainland Europe is suffering worse infection rates than the UK is .. and, freedom of movement is the polar opposite of health advice intended to stem the disease !

In such a political environment, it should be easy, should the SNP still push their case, to show it has reckless and possibly fatal consequences.