How Camden, N.J. disbanded and rebuilt its police department

[revelarts]

How Camden, N.J. disbanded and rebuilt its police department

Link (https://www.msnbc.com/mtp-daily/watch/how-camden-n-j-disbanded-and-rebuilt-its-police-department-84689989601)


"As calls to defund and disband the police grow, former Camden County Police Chief Scott Thomson discusses how Camden, N.J. disbanded and rebuilt its police force in 2013"

Every member of the Camden Police dept was fired.
They had a Crime rate higher than 3rd world countries.
and the Police union blocked every change.

2012 They Rebuilt the police force with Community policing policies and culture.
Murder reduced by 70%Violent crime reduced by 46%
Police harassment complaints reduction of 95%
Baby Cameras on all police

Train in Deescalation prior to using force....

[icansayit]

Yes, Camden fired all of it's officers. Many of them deserved to be fired because they were the PAID PAWNS of a Crooked City Government...and, what they never want everybody to know is....How they CLEANED HOUSE (so to speak) getting rid of the mile after mile of Crime Ridden GHETTO neighborhoods with poor, unemployed, homeless, drug trafficing that the CITY govt. just ignored.
Needless to say. The DUMBEST IDEA today by anybody is..."GETTING RID OF POLICE".

Anyone who doesn't see the foolishness in that...Should get OBAMA'S phone number and DIAL that instead of 9-11.

[revelarts]

Yes, Camden fired all of it's officers. Many of them deserved to be fired because they were the PAID PAWNS of a Crooked City Government...and, what they never want everybody to know is....How they CLEANED HOUSE (so to speak) getting rid of the mile after mile of Crime Ridden GHETTO neighborhoods with poor, unemployed, homeless, drug trafficing that the CITY govt. just ignored.
Needless to say. The DUMBEST IDEA today by anybody is..."GETTING RID OF POLICE".

Anyone who doesn't see the foolishness in that...Should get OBAMA'S phone number and DIAL that instead of 9-11.

So are you saying that Camden should have KEPT all of the crooked and abusive officers. And not have started over with a new police force and new policies?

[revelarts]

De-fund the Police? The Wrong Answer to the Right Problem



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezxh8rdRTb0


"Activists are picking up momentum with calls to defund police departments across the country. But the problem isn't just police departments, its the cities and municipalities that use police departments as a source of revenue in order to make budgets. "


Fines and Fees generate funds.
Cops send most time on small BS "crimes" parking, asset forfeiture etc.

cities afraid to raise taxes, raise fines and fees

[Hot Dogger]

The Founding Fathers never envisioned that corporate municipal governments and their "police forces" should hold sway over the life and death of citizens. Police see those they purport to "serve and protect" not as citizens but as mere civilians, potential enemies in a war zone. The very idea of "law enforcement" is contrary to the good conscience of all Real Americans.

[claudius2019]

The Founding Fathers never envisioned that corporate municipal governments and their "police forces" should hold sway over the life and death of citizens. Police see those they purport to "serve and protect" not as citizens but as mere civilians, potential enemies in a war zone. The very idea of "law enforcement" is contrary to the good conscience of all Real Americans.

Right now, law enforcement is a nightmare for-profit model, and has been forever, but it got especially bad in the 80's. Add in the power of the unions, liberal police chiefs, minority hires, mandatory body cams. Stupid no-bail laws the toss the person they risked their lives to arrest .. right back on the street. It's just like the old Charles Bronson movies, except now it's official policy.

Law enforcement doesn't need to be the bloated fascist bureaucracy it is today, police depts could be slimmed way down, more like they were in the 60's and 70's. The extra cops are only there to bring in more fines. Cops generally don't "help" anyone anyway, other than themselves. One notable exception has been the California Highway Patrol, they're very good about helping stranded motorists who break down in the middle of nowhere, and not over-charging people for too much petty stuff like city and county cops often do. The officers are much better trained, and generally smarter people than the typical city cop, much more professional and courteous, generally.

[icansayit]

So are you saying that Camden should have KEPT all of the crooked and abusive officers. And not have started over with a new police force and new policies?


Show me where I said anything of the sort. Read what I said again, or for the FIRST time.

Democrats still control Camden, and they irradicated the bad area's to create NEW bad area's. That's how politicians stay in office. Of course their crime has gone down. They got rid of the ones making trouble...and they crossed the BEN FRANKLIN into PHILLY. How's Philly Doin' These Days?

I can get you OBAMA'S phone number if you have an emergency.

[revelarts]

Show me where I said anything of the sort. Read what I said again, or for the FIRST time.

Democrats still control Camden, and they irradicated the bad area's to create NEW bad area's. That's how politicians stay in office. Of course their crime has gone down. They got rid of the ones making trouble...and they crossed the BEN FRANKLIN into PHILLY. How's Philly Doin' These Days?

I can get you OBAMA'S phone number if you have an emergency.

So it was a GOOD thing to fire all the crooked and abusive police then right?

[claudius2019]

I would probably qualify for an Obama Phone, FWIW.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Good points made in this thread, but still missing one important point, QUALIFIED IMMUNITY.

I guarantee that stays, because as pointed out, cops nowadays are more about what can they fine you for or charge you with because it PAYS THE BILLS. Gotta keep those FINES coming in, and probably more often than not their star cops that write people up are also the ones that routinely violate everyone's constitutional rights. Why? BECAUSE THEY CAN.

Take QI away, train the cops in the LAW, what they can and can't do to you, and stop putting the job of paying a municipalities bills on the cops from writing tickets and arresting people. The QI has just EXACERBATED the problem.

Yes there DOES need to be REFORM in the police department. It has grown into a massive behemoth including all their new PARA MILITARY HARDWARE. What the hell they need that for? If something so bad is going down that you need an ARMORED PERSONAL CARRIER, then just CALL IN THE DAMN NATIONAL GUARD.

Wasn't it obama that wanted to TURN THE POLICE INTO THE MILITARY? They've gotten pretty close. The cops wear black, the military wears camo. Not much difference otherwise, except our military and NG don't have IMMUNITY TO PROSECUTION.

I think a LOT of people have had a bad experience with a cop with an attitude that was not serving or protecting. The cop was albeit harassing them doing their flat out best to find SOME reason to FINE or ARREST them, and that isn't helping the cops right now one bit. I think there's plenty of anti cop sentiment out there right now, even among many common citizens, and the cops have brought it all on themselves with how radical they've become in the last couple decades.

[claudius2019]

Good points made in this thread, but still missing one important point, QUALIFIED IMMUNITY.

I guarantee that stays, because as pointed out, cops nowadays are more about what can they fine you for or charge you with because it PAYS THE BILLS. Gotta keep those FINES coming in, and probably more often than not their star cops that write people up are also the ones that routinely violate everyone's constitutional rights. Why? BECAUSE THEY CAN.

Take QI away, train the cops in the LAW, what they can and can't do to you, and stop putting the job of paying a municipalities bills on the cops from writing tickets and arresting people. The QI has just EXACERBATED the problem.

Yes there DOES need to be REFORM in the police department. It has grown into a massive behemoth including all their new PARA MILITARY HARDWARE. What the hell they need that for? If something so bad is going down that you need an ARMORED PERSONAL CARRIER, then just CALL IN THE DAMN NATIONAL GUARD.

Wasn't it obama that wanted to TURN THE POLICE INTO THE MILITARY? They've gotten pretty close. The cops wear black, the military wears camo. Not much difference otherwise, except our military and NG don't have IMMUNITY TO PROSECUTION.

I think a LOT of people have had a bad experience with a cop with an attitude that was not serving or protecting. The cop was albeit harassing them doing their flat out best to find SOME reason to FINE or ARREST them, and that isn't helping the cops right now one bit. I think there's plenty of anti cop sentiment out there right now, even among many common citizens, and the cops have brought it all on themselves with how radical they've become in the last couple decades.

It's all about money. My county stopped arresting anyone a while back, and the streets don't seem any more dangerous at all. Which makes me conclude those cops were had little to no effect on crime or public safety, they were just out there grabbing fines right and left, that the county can use ... to hire even more cops to bring in even more revenue. This has gotta stop.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

It's all about money. My county stopped arresting anyone a while back, and the streets don't seem any more dangerous at all. Which makes me conclude those cops were had little to no effect on crime or public safety, they were just out there grabbing fines right and left, that the county can use ... to hire even more cops to bring in even more revenue. This has gotta stop.
Back years ago I used to have a police scanner. Back before they went to trunking and digital and all that, and I was amazed how times I heard a cop call in a license plate number just to "check" a vehicle. They hadn't done anything wrong, but the cop was "checking" them, but quite often the dispatch would tell them to go ahead and PULL THE VEHICLE OVER and MYC - Make Your Case. In other words, they just picked out a vehicle for whatever reason, basically TARGETED IT, and then went ahead and pulled it over for NO REASON, but after they pulled it over, LOOKED for a reason. Kinda like what the deep state did to Trump. Started a three year long investigation on him from known farcical evidence, which is illegal, to appoint a SC WITHOUT a crime already identified is ILLEGAL. Kinda like what cops do to people. Pull you over before you've even done anything wrong, and they did it over and over, day after day. No mystery to me why cops aren't all that well liked anymore, and this QUALIFIED IMMUNITY has just EMBOLDENED them. They know they can pull you over and violate every one of your constitutional rights, fine you, arrest you, even kick your ass, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. 99.9% of the time, the cop will walk without so much as a slap on the wrist. Quite the opposite, he'll probably get an ATTA BOY from his Captain.

[claudius2019]

Enjoy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNjpfk6m8dI

Haven't heard this song in 20 years, but it's as true as ever. Would have been a top 10 hit, in a just world. :)

[claudius2019]

Bonus anti-cop tune: :laugh:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruf_Vjyms98