Most amazing pics EVER of 9/11

[-Cp]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/282415/Awesome-Military-photos-of-the-Twin-Towers

WOW.... LIBERALS NEED TO WAKE THEIR ASSES UP!!!

[Dilloduck]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/282415/Awesome-Military-photos-of-the-Twin-Towers

WOW.... LIBERALS NEED TO WAKE THEIR ASSES UP!!!

I've never seen pics from those angles before. They are great--thanks. (and prepare for the conspiracy folks to arrive soon).

[trobinett]

I've never seen pics from those angles before. They are great--thanks. (and prepare for the conspiracy folks to arrive soon).

No worries mate, they've been here, and left, on to other :lame2: adventures.

:dance:

[retiredman]

WOW.... LIBERALS NEED TO WAKE THEIR ASSES UP!!!

bullshit.

WOW.... CONSERVATIVES NEED TO WAKE THEIR ASSES UP AND REALIZE THAT WHILE WE HAVE FUMBLEFUCKED AROUND IN IRAQ THE GUYS WHO DID THIS TERRIBLE THING TO US ARE JUST AS STRONG AS THEY WERE THE DAY THEY DID IT....AND THOSE CONSERVATIVES HAVE WASTED A HALF A TRILLION DOLLARS, 31K DEAD AND WOUNDED AMERICANS, AND FIVE YEARS AND HAVE ALMOST NOTHING TO SHOW FOR IT!!!!

[Dilloduck]

bullshit.

WOW.... CONSERVATIVES NEED TO WAKE THEIR ASSES UP AND REALIZE THAT WHILE WE HAVE FUMBLEFUCKED AROUND IN IRAQ THE GUYS WHO DID THIS TERRIBLE THING TO US ARE JUST AS STRONG AS THEY WERE THE DAY THEY DID IT....AND THOSE CONSERVATIVES HAVE WASTED A HALF A TRILLION DOLLARS, 31K DEAD AND WOUNDED AMERICANS, AND FIVE YEARS AND HAVE ALMOST NOTHING TO SHOW FOR IT!!!!

please MFM--make them stop.

[Yurt]

very interesting, i have never seen the tower up close like that and how many top levels were on fire, no, intense fuel driven fire. it is very easy to see how the pancake effect happened, those floors disinegated and imploded on the other floors.

and for those a-holes who want to talk about iraq or whatnot, stfu and start another thread. if you want forget and wrap your dhimmi head up in a scarf, go for it, but don't mess with those lives lost on 9/11 for your own agenda.

start a new thread and let us remember. :fu:

[manu1959]

bullshit.

WOW.... CONSERVATIVES NEED TO WAKE THEIR ASSES UP AND REALIZE THAT WHILE WE HAVE FUMBLEFUCKED AROUND IN IRAQ THE GUYS WHO DID THIS TERRIBLE THING TO US ARE JUST AS STRONG AS THEY WERE THE DAY THEY DID IT....AND THOSE CONSERVATIVES HAVE WASTED A HALF A TRILLION DOLLARS, 31K DEAD AND WOUNDED AMERICANS, AND FIVE YEARS AND HAVE ALMOST NOTHING TO SHOW FOR IT!!!!

if they were just a strong wouldn't they have hit us again in the last 6 years?

[manu1959]

very interesting, i have never seen the tower up close like that and how many top levels were on fire, no, intense fuel driven fire. it is very easy to see how the pancake effect happened, those floors disinegated and imploded on the other floors.

and for those a-holes who want to talk about iraq or whatnot, stfu and start another thread. if you want forget and wrap your dhimmi head up in a scarf, go for it, but don't mess with those lives lost on 9/11 for your own agenda.

start a new thread and let us remember. :fu:

a friend of mine was on the engineering team that analized the colapse....

the impact of the jet....cut the fire sprinkler lines.....blew the fireproofing off the steel trusses and set all the office furniture etc...on fire.....the fire weakend the steel trusses .... doesn't take long.....the trusses began to sag and pulled free of their support points at each end....the stored energy on the floors above were released...and pancake....

[retiredman]

if they were just a strong wouldn't they have hit us again in the last 6 years?

I would not begin to claim that I can think like they do or that I can begin to imagine the scope and timetable of their strategic plan.

I did not make that line up, however. The recently released NIE claimed that AQ was as strong as they were on 9/11. If you have a problem with that analysis, don't make your argument to me...go to the CIA.

[manu1959]

I would not begin to claim that I can think like they do or that I can begin to imagine the scope and timetable of their strategic plan.

I did not make that line up, however. The recently released NIE claimed that AQ was as strong as they were on 9/11. If you have a problem with that analysis, don't make your argument to me...go to the CIA.

so they have the ability to hit us at any time with the same force as that on 911....but just don't....sorry, that dog don't hunt....

[Dilloduck]

I would not begin to claim that I can think like they do or that I can begin to imagine the scope and timetable of their strategic plan.

I did not make that line up, however. The recently released NIE claimed that AQ was as strong as they were on 9/11. If you have a problem with that analysis, don't make your argument to me...go to the CIA.

It'll be OK. Bush is starting to bring troops home--they can help defend America IN America.

[manu1959]

It'll be OK. Bush is starting to bring troops home--they can help defend America IN America.

they were not much good either time the WTC got hit...

[retiredman]

so they have the ability to hit us at any time with the same force as that on 911....but just don't....sorry, that dog don't hunt....

tell that to the authors of the national intelligence estimate. I didn't just come up with that idea on my own.

[manu1959]

tell that to the authors of the national intelligence estimate. I didn't just come up with that idea on my own.

so the same people that were totally un reliable with respect to WMDs and the 911 attack are suddenly spot on in their assesment?......sorry but that dog don't hunt either.....

since when have these AQ folks shown restraint....

[retiredman]

show me where I suggested that they were "suddenly spot on"


how about not nitpicking one phrase and addressing my overall point?

[manu1959]

show me where I suggested that they were "suddenly spot on"

how about not nitpicking one phrase and addressing my overall point?

well your overall point was that AQ is as strong today as they were on 911....then you said it wasn't your point it was the CIA's.....

in both cases i said i wasn't buying it .... and articulated why...

what is your point now?

[Gaffer]

bullshit.

WOW.... CONSERVATIVES NEED TO WAKE THEIR ASSES UP AND REALIZE THAT WHILE WE HAVE FUMBLEFUCKED AROUND IN IRAQ THE GUYS WHO DID THIS TERRIBLE THING TO US ARE JUST AS STRONG AS THEY WERE THE DAY THEY DID IT....AND THOSE CONSERVATIVES HAVE WASTED A HALF A TRILLION DOLLARS, 31K DEAD AND WOUNDED AMERICANS, AND FIVE YEARS AND HAVE ALMOST NOTHING TO SHOW FOR IT!!!!

Lets see three quarters of al quedas top leadership are dead or captured. The man responsible for planning the attack and seeing it carried out is in gitmo squealing like a pig. thousands of al queda and taliban are dead. More are killed every day. AQI is being totally decimated. bin laden is in hiding. But its all been a fumblefuck. Perhaps the problem is that only "conservatives" are waging this war while the libs sit back and complain about how its waged. Maybe if the libs got in and actually helped it wouldn't be a fumblefuck.

The guys that did this terrible thing are dead and the planner is in gitmo. If the numbers have been replaced might it not be a good idea to listen to phone calls and do a little profiling. You know, those nasty things libs hate for us to do. A little water boarding, some sleep deprivation, loud music, pig petting. Things that make people talk. Some preemptive intervention to protect people from it ever happening again.

[manu1959]

Lets see three quarters of al quedas top leadership are dead or captured. The man responsible for planning the attack and seeing it carried out is in gitmo squealing like a pig. thousands of al queda and taliban are dead. More are killed every day. AQI is being totally decimated. bin laden is in hiding. But its all been a fumblefuck. Perhaps the problem is that only "conservatives" are waging this war while the libs sit back and complain about how its waged. Maybe if the libs got in and actually helped it wouldn't be a fumblefuck.

The guys that did this terrible thing are dead and the planner is in gitmo. If the numbers have been replaced might it not be a good idea to listen to phone calls and do a little profiling. You know, those nasty things libs hate for us to do. A little water boarding, some sleep deprivation, loud music, pig petting. Things that make people talk. Some preemptive intervention to protect people from it ever happening again.


damn .....can't rep this either....

[Gaffer]

damn .....can't rep this either....

Thanks anyway

[Abbey Marie]

damn .....can't rep this either....

Covered.

[Yurt]

a friend of mine was on the engineering team that analized the colapse....

the impact of the jet....cut the fire sprinkler lines.....blew the fireproofing off the steel trusses and set all the office furniture etc...on fire.....the fire weakend the steel trusses .... doesn't take long.....the trusses began to sag and pulled free of their support points at each end....the stored energy on the floors above were released...and pancake....

yeah, what he said. :)

it is amazing how many people actually think they can refute that. must be the water in maine or something...

[jafar00]

yeah, what he said. :)

it is amazing how many people actually think they can refute that. must be the water in maine or something...

The chair and vice chair of the 9/11 Commission, Thomas Kean and Lee Hamilton seem to think the official investigation was a load of porkies.

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/peter_tatchell/2007/09/911_the_big_coverup.html

If the people in charge of the official report on 9/11 don't support it, how can you?

[retiredman]

yeah, what he said. :)

it is amazing how many people actually think they can refute that. must be the water in maine or something...

kiss my ass....when have I EVER supported any conspiracy theories surrounding 9/11?

This thread was antagonistically politicized from the VERY FIRST LINE. I countered it.

You should either engage in the discussion honestly or, alternatively, quit whining.

[retiredman]

Lets see three quarters of al quedas top leadership are dead or captured. The man responsible for planning the attack and seeing it carried out is in gitmo squealing like a pig. thousands of al queda and taliban are dead. More are killed every day. AQI is being totally decimated. bin laden is in hiding. But its all been a fumblefuck. Perhaps the problem is that only "conservatives" are waging this war while the libs sit back and complain about how its waged. Maybe if the libs got in and actually helped it wouldn't be a fumblefuck.

The guys that did this terrible thing are dead and the planner is in gitmo. If the numbers have been replaced might it not be a good idea to listen to phone calls and do a little profiling. You know, those nasty things libs hate for us to do. A little water boarding, some sleep deprivation, loud music, pig petting. Things that make people talk. Some preemptive intervention to protect people from it ever happening again.

three quarters of a totally unknown number is, itself, a bullshit number. It seems like we have caught and captured about five dozen "#2 men in Al Qaeda, but the NIE STILL says they are as strong as they were.

Conservatives are "waging war"? Oh really? How? By being brave members of the fighting keyboardists brigade? I served. long hard and well. Don't you DARE talk to me about "sitting back". And to suggest that if I "got in and helped" (how? with brave keyboarding skills like YOU exhibit?) that would somehow make sunnis and shiites in Iraq want to have a giant group hug is laughable and insulting.

And I wonder why it is, that the bravest and toughest GOP Presidential candidate, John McCain....the ONLY one who has actually been on the receiving end of "a little water boarding, some sleep deprivation, loud music, pig petting", is so vehemently against our using it? Could it be that HE is worried that our NEXT enemy might see our use of it as carte blanche to use it on GI's caught on the battlefield of the NEXT war....while , no doubt,cowardly chickenhawks "fight" from behind their keyboards back in the safety of the US of A that those REAL warriors defend?

[darin]

tell that to the authors of the national intelligence estimate. I didn't just come up with that idea on my own.

I honestly Praise GOD you are no-longer able to influence Sailors and what-not. Your ideas and opinions are HORRIBLE.

[retiredman]

I honestly Praise GOD you are no-longer able to influence Sailors and what-not. Your ideas and opinions are HORRIBLE.

you'd be sruprised at how much influence I still exert over active duty navy personnel that I mentored early in their career. they would all tend to disagree.

and could you be more specific?

Do you think that my suggestion that a military victory in Iraq is pyrrhic at best is horrible, and if so, why? Do you think that my suggestion is horrible that a military victory in Iraq - which we are undoubtedly capable of acheiving - is meaningless without the Iraqi people wanting to put aside a millenium of enmity?

what do you have besides snide personal attacks, or is that about it?

[darin]

you'd be sruprised at how much influence I still exert over active duty navy personnel that I mentored early in their career. they would all tend to disagree.


That's horrible...simply bad for the service. I know, however, your viewpoints are in the minority. Hopefully a good NCO or Senior Officer has stepped in to set them straight since your departure.
It's not about a personal attack - it's about ME reading the bullshit you post here as if it were 'pearls of knowledge'. I wonder - and I suspect, you don't even believe the tripe you post; I think we're a big social experiment for you. It's as if you want to see how long we'll tolerate somebody with CONSTANT BAD IDEAS and advice on how to fight, and win, a war.

[retiredman]

That's horrible...simply bad for the service. I know, however, your viewpoints are in the minority. Hopefully a good NCO or Senior Officer has stepped in to set them straight since your departure.
It's not about a personal attack - it's about ME reading the bullshit you post here as if it were 'pearls of knowledge'. I wonder - and I suspect, you don't even believe the tripe you post; I think we're a big social experiment for you. It's as if you want to see how long we'll tolerate somebody with CONSTANT BAD IDEAS and advice on how to fight, and win, a war.

lol


the guys I mentored that are still in ARE good NCO's and senior officers now!

and again.... rather than just say my ideas are bad or horrible... why not show the mental horsepower to actually explain WHY you believe that?

dude

[darin]

lol


the guys I mentored that are still in ARE good NCO's and senior officers now!

and again.... rather than just say my ideas are bad or horrible... why not show the mental horsepower to actually explain WHY you believe that?

dude


I'm not your monkey. Anybody with reason and 10th-grade reading comprehension can read your bull here on the forum and see through you quite clearly. Here we have a thread about the attacks on New York, and YOU...and YOU start throwing out your bullshit red herrings and strawmen.

[retiredman]

Here we have a thread about the attacks on New York, and YOU...and YOU start throwing out your bullshit red herrings and strawmen.


no.... calm down young man...what we have here is a thread that was STARTED with the following sentence:

"WOW.... LIBERALS NEED TO WAKE THEIR ASSES UP!!!"

If you want to have a thread that invites somber reflection on that terrible day, you don't START that thread with a slap in the face. I responded.

[retiredman]

and I must add, how brave and admirable... to not answer that simple post, which points out the antagonistic tone of this thread from the very outset, but to use all of your clout to ding me with a neg rep instead.

yeah.... you really are somethin'

[jimnyc]

The chair and vice chair of the 9/11 Commission, Thomas Kean and Lee Hamilton seem to think the official investigation was a load of porkies.

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/peter_tatchell/2007/09/911_the_big_coverup.html

If the people in charge of the official report on 9/11 don't support it, how can you?

The comments were directed at the ridiculous conspiracy theories about how the buildings came down, implying that the planes and the aftermath couldn't have done so. In that respect, I'll take the words of some of the worlds finest engineers over the thoughts of some politicians.

[Gaffer]

three quarters of a totally unknown number is, itself, a bullshit number. It seems like we have caught and captured about five dozen "#2 men in Al Qaeda, but the NIE STILL says they are as strong as they were.

Conservatives are "waging war"? Oh really? How? By being brave members of the fighting keyboardists brigade? I served. long hard and well. Don't you DARE talk to me about "sitting back". And to suggest that if I "got in and helped" (how? with brave keyboarding skills like YOU exhibit?) that would somehow make sunnis and shiites in Iraq want to have a giant group hug is laughable and insulting.

And I wonder why it is, that the bravest and toughest GOP Presidential candidate, John McCain....the ONLY one who has actually been on the receiving end of "a little water boarding, some sleep deprivation, loud music, pig petting", is so vehemently against our using it? Could it be that HE is worried that our NEXT enemy might see our use of it as carte blanche to use it on GI's caught on the battlefield of the NEXT war....while , no doubt,cowardly chickenhawks "fight" from behind their keyboards back in the safety of the US of A that those REAL warriors defend?

I WILL DARE to talk to you about sitting back.You and everyone like you. Don't forget who your talking to here. As I said if the libs and media would stand beside the conservatives instead of trying to undermine the war effort this war would be over a lot sooner. Because the arabs would become discouraged and their recruiting would drop.

As for McCain, I like the man as a person, but not as a senator. He experienced REAL torture, not the simple shit I listed. We don't fight countries that treat prisoners as they are suppose to be treated. We have never fought them in the past and we never will. We fight despots and tyrants. They already use "carte blanch" on GI's captured. This "chickenhawk" does what he can from behind his keyboard by exposing the bullshit put out by the liberals, having been a REAL warrior.

[retiredman]

I WILL DARE to talk to you about sitting back.You and everyone like you. Don't forget who your talking to here. As I said if the libs and media would stand beside the conservatives instead of trying to undermine the war effort this war would be over a lot sooner. Because the arabs would become discouraged and their recruiting would drop.

As for McCain, I like the man as a person, but not as a senator. He experienced REAL torture, not the simple shit I listed. We don't fight countries that treat prisoners as they are suppose to be treated. We have never fought them in the past and we never will. We fight despots and tyrants. They already use "carte blanch" on GI's captured. This "chickenhawk" does what he can from behind his keyboard by exposing the bullshit put out by the liberals, having been a REAL warrior.


and as I have said and no one from the right can rationally discuss, the WAR has already been won...the solution to Iraq is not a military solution, but a political one. And I firmly believe that our presence there is not aiding in the development of that political solution one iota... and I further believe that whatever political solution or compromise or rapprochement that may be arrived at while under American occupation will quickly dissolve the moment we do leave.

re: torture... so McCain, who, by your own admission, has experienced real torture, is against torturing our detainees. Excuse me...but I missed it where you have also experienced real torture and can state your opinion from such an informed perspective.

[dan]

no.... calm down young man...what we have here is a thread that was STARTED with the following sentence:

"WOW.... LIBERALS NEED TO WAKE THEIR ASSES UP!!!"

If you want to have a thread that invites somber reflection on that terrible day, you don't START that thread with a slap in the face. I responded.

Sorry, guys, but I agree with this statement 100%, though it may not have been the OP's intent, he started the thread on a clearly political note, it's not fair to chastize MFM for responding thusly.

[-Cp]

and I must add, how brave and admirable... to not answer that simple post, which points out the antagonistic tone of this thread from the very outset, but to use all of your clout to ding me with a neg rep instead.

yeah.... you really are somethin'

Need a tissue?

[retiredman]

Need a tissue?

no...it's the weekend. I need a cold beer and a red sox victory. how about you?

[Yurt]

kiss my ass....when have I EVER supported any conspiracy theories surrounding 9/11?

This thread was antagonistically politicized from the VERY FIRST LINE. I countered it.

You should either engage in the discussion honestly or, alternatively, quit whining.

yeah, like your post :rolleyes:

[-Cp]

Sorry, guys, but I agree with this statement 100%, though it may not have been the OP's intent, he started the thread on a clearly political note, it's not fair to chastize MFM for responding thusly.

Do you care to show where the political line was in the OP? Maybe I'm old and forgetful, but I don't see any thing about politics in the OP...

[manu1959]

Do you care to show where the political line was in the OP? Maybe I'm old and forgetful, but I don't see any thing about politics in the OP...

WOW.... LIBERALS NEED TO WAKE THEIR ASSES UP!!!

i think the liberal part was it....

[TheStripey1]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/282415/Awesome-Military-photos-of-the-Twin-Towers

WOW.... LIBERALS NEED TO WAKE THEIR ASSES UP!!!

hello... -cp?

those that perpetrated that act are in Afghanistan and Pakistan... conservative sheeple need to realize that fact and help us lefties get our troops out of Iraq... they're needed elsewhere... like home with their families resting for another deployment hunting down those that attacked us.

And after seeing those pics, I have to question who in their right mind could say, just days after those towers fell, that the air was safe to breathe at Ground Zero... who besides the EPA that is...

[TheStripey1]

bullshit.

WOW.... CONSERVATIVES NEED TO WAKE THEIR ASSES UP AND REALIZE THAT WHILE WE HAVE FUMBLEFUCKED AROUND IN IRAQ THE GUYS WHO DID THIS TERRIBLE THING TO US ARE JUST AS STRONG AS THEY WERE THE DAY THEY DID IT....AND THOSE CONSERVATIVES HAVE WASTED A HALF A TRILLION DOLLARS, 31K DEAD AND WOUNDED AMERICANS, AND FIVE YEARS AND HAVE ALMOST NOTHING TO SHOW FOR IT!!!!


well, they did kill saddam and his sons and bomb Iraq back into the stone age...

but that's not even close to being a fair trade, IMO...

[TheStripey1]

very interesting, i have never seen the tower up close like that and how many top levels were on fire, no, intense fuel driven fire. it is very easy to see how the pancake effect happened, those floors disinegated and imploded on the other floors.

and for those a-holes who want to talk about iraq or whatnot, stfu and start another thread. if you want forget and wrap your dhimmi head up in a scarf, go for it, but don't mess with those lives lost on 9/11 for your own agenda.

start a new thread and let us remember. :fu:

buzz off... how come if you were so incensed, you didn't drop what you were doing and enlist like Pat Tillman did?

[TheStripey1]

if they were just a strong wouldn't they have hit us again in the last 6 years?


Are you saying that the NIE is lying?

[manu1959]

Are you saying that the NIE is lying?

this has been asked and answered twice....

[TheStripey1]

It'll be OK. Bush is starting to bring troops home--they can help defend America IN America.


It's the same troops he sent over there last spring, but it won't be long until they are sent back...

and you know Dd, with so many bush loving war mongers pounding away on their keyboards day in and day out in support of his policies, one could think that those supporters would actually rush down and enlist.

And yet... they don't.

[TheStripey1]

they were not much good either time the WTC got hit...


well, they did get some nifty photos of the towers as shared with us by -cp... but you're right... they didn't do anything to stop it... not even those jets that are supposed to be patroling our skies keeping us safe...

[TheStripey1]

Lets see three quarters of al quedas top leadership are dead or captured. The man responsible for planning the attack and seeing it carried out is in gitmo squealing like a pig. thousands of al queda and taliban are dead. More are killed every day. AQI is being totally decimated. bin laden is in hiding. But its all been a fumblefuck. Perhaps the problem is that only "conservatives" are waging this war while the libs sit back and complain about how its waged. Maybe if the libs got in and actually helped it wouldn't be a fumblefuck.

The guys that did this terrible thing are dead and the planner is in gitmo. If the numbers have been replaced might it not be a good idea to listen to phone calls and do a little profiling. You know, those nasty things libs hate for us to do. A little water boarding, some sleep deprivation, loud music, pig petting. Things that make people talk. Some preemptive intervention to protect people from it ever happening again.

where's osama? you know... the one bush vowed he was going to hunt dowwn and bring to justice dead or alive... where is he? How's that hunt coming?

Are you saying the NIE is false as well?

[TheStripey1]

The chair and vice chair of the 9/11 Commission, Thomas Kean and Lee Hamilton seem to think the official investigation was a load of porkies.

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/peter_tatchell/2007/09/911_the_big_coverup.html

If the people in charge of the official report on 9/11 don't support it, how can you?


because they trust and believe everything that comes out of the bush administration...

[TheStripey1]

three quarters of a totally unknown number is, itself, a bullshit number. It seems like we have caught and captured about five dozen "#2 men in Al Qaeda, but the NIE STILL says they are as strong as they were.

Conservatives are "waging war"? Oh really? How? By being brave members of the fighting keyboardists brigade? I served. long hard and well. Don't you DARE talk to me about "sitting back". And to suggest that if I "got in and helped" (how? with brave keyboarding skills like YOU exhibit?) that would somehow make sunnis and shiites in Iraq want to have a giant group hug is laughable and insulting.

And I wonder why it is, that the bravest and toughest GOP Presidential candidate, John McCain....the ONLY one who has actually been on the receiving end of "a little water boarding, some sleep deprivation, loud music, pig petting", is so vehemently against our using it? Could it be that HE is worried that our NEXT enemy might see our use of it as carte blanche to use it on GI's caught on the battlefield of the NEXT war....while , no doubt,cowardly chickenhawks "fight" from behind their keyboards back in the safety of the US of A that those REAL warriors defend?

if I hadn't already repped you earlier, I would be doing it now... great post, manfrommaine, great post!

[jimnyc]

and you know Dd, with so many bush loving war mongers pounding away on their keyboards day in and day out in support of his policies, one could think that those supporters would actually rush down and enlist.

And yet... they don't.

I tried. They took one look at me, laughed, and escorted me to the door! :laugh2:

[TheStripey1]

That's horrible...simply bad for the service. I know, however, your viewpoints are in the minority. Hopefully a good NCO or Senior Officer has stepped in to set them straight since your departure.
It's not about a personal attack - it's about ME reading the bullshit you post here as if it were 'pearls of knowledge'. I wonder - and I suspect, you don't even believe the tripe you post; I think we're a big social experiment for you. It's as if you want to see how long we'll tolerate somebody with CONSTANT BAD IDEAS and advice on how to fight, and win, a war.

manfrommaine has served honorably in the navy... and you? have you served?

The war in Iraq has no strategy and no plan to win... bush's latest same stay the course is just wait until '09 to pass it off to someone else... do you call THAT a good plan? What if it was your father, brother, son, mother, sister, daughter that got killed waiting... would you still be as vociferous a supporter of a nothing plan as you are now?

[TheStripey1]

I'm not your monkey. Anybody with reason and 10th-grade reading comprehension can read your bull here on the forum and see through you quite clearly. Here we have a thread about the attacks on New York, and YOU...and YOU start throwing out your bullshit red herrings and strawmen.


Who attacked us on 9/11? Al Qaeda terrorists trained in Afghanistan. Bush vowed to bring in Osama Been forgotten DEAD OR ALIVE! Well dmp, I'm still waiting and so are every other american.

Why? because bush took his eye off of who attacked us on 9/11, withdrew the majority of our troops and resources and sent then into Iraq. Now anyone with any education at all can see that that was a terrible idea.

Except for right wingers...

They just keep banging the drum for victory... and yet, they don't actually DO anything in the fight, except bang the drum.

[TheStripey1]

no.... calm down young man...what we have here is a thread that was STARTED with the following sentence:

"WOW.... LIBERALS NEED TO WAKE THEIR ASSES UP!!!"

If you want to have a thread that invites somber reflection on that terrible day, you don't START that thread with a slap in the face. I responded.


some people can't smell the real red herrings when they are directly under their noses...

:dance:

[TheStripey1]

The comments were directed at the ridiculous conspiracy theories about how the buildings came down, implying that the planes and the aftermath couldn't have done so. In that respect, I'll take the words of some of the worlds finest engineers over the thoughts of some politicians.


Have you watched any of the videos or are you basing your opinion of what is in them on what other people tell you are in them?

[jimnyc]

Have you watched any of the videos or are you basing your opinion of what is in them on what other people tell you are in them?

Based on countless angles of the video I've seen myself, and from reports from structural engineers around the world. I've yet to see a single report from a respectable engineer claim otherwise. I also saw a mini documentary that remade the entire crash into a computerized version explaining in great detail exactly what happened when the planes hit the building.

[TheStripey1]

I WILL DARE to talk to you about sitting back.You and everyone like you. Don't forget who your talking to here. As I said if the libs and media would stand beside the conservatives instead of trying to undermine the war effort this war would be over a lot sooner. Because the arabs would become discouraged and their recruiting would drop.

As for McCain, I like the man as a person, but not as a senator. He experienced REAL torture, not the simple shit I listed. We don't fight countries that treat prisoners as they are suppose to be treated. We have never fought them in the past and we never will. We fight despots and tyrants. They already use "carte blanch" on GI's captured. This "chickenhawk" does what he can from behind his keyboard by exposing the bullshit put out by the liberals, having been a REAL warrior.

pssst gaffer... you aren't a chickenhawk if you served in the military... that term is reserved for those that just TALK a good war without actually have been in the military... gaffer, you are a hawk. Plain and simple... a hawk.

But there are a lot of folk here who fit the first label and a lot who fit the second.

[dan]

WOW.... LIBERALS NEED TO WAKE THEIR ASSES UP!!!

i think the liberal part was it....

That was it.

I forgot to mention, those pics were very moving, but I feel like the OP (maybe unintentionally?) got the thread off on the wrong foot.

[TheStripey1]

Do you care to show where the political line was in the OP? Maybe I'm old and forgetful, but I don't see any thing about politics in the OP...

this ring any bells?

"WOW.... LIBERALS NEED TO WAKE THEIR ASSES UP!!!"

Have you thought about taking Ginko? I have heard that it can be quite effective in helping to restore memory.

:dance:

[TheStripey1]

this has been asked and answered twice....

so? I wasn't here and unlike some folks...

I read and comment on the posts I want to from the beginning of the thread until I get to the end...

do you start reading at the end of a thread and skip everything that came before it?

[-Cp]

this ring any bells?

"WOW.... LIBERALS NEED TO WAKE THEIR ASSES UP!!!"

Have you thought about taking Ginko? I have heard that it can be quite effective in helping to restore memory.

:dance:

Again - what part of that quote is political?

[TheStripey1]

I tried. They took one look at me, laughed, and escorted me to the door! :laugh2:

why?

and you might want to try again... cuz they're offering $20 grand as an enlistment bonus if you volunteer to be deployed asap.

We could use a good correspondent... someone who we could trust to tell us how swell everything is over there...

Or... on the other paw...

I hear KBR is looking for a few good men and they don't care how funny you look... and I hear KBR pay is way better than the military...

[TheStripey1]

Based on countless angles of the video I've seen myself, and from reports from structural engineers around the world. I've yet to see a single report from a respectable engineer claim otherwise. I also saw a mini documentary that remade the entire crash into a computerized version explaining in great detail exactly what happened when the planes hit the building.

Was that the one PBS did?

No... when I asked you if you saw any of the videos, I meant the "conspiracy" videos.

[jimnyc]

why?

Quite honestly? I just think my made up scenario would probably be close to the truth! I'm 39 and have a 6 year old boy. I have about 25 tattoo's and have drank enough booze and done enough drugs in my life than you'll find in most prisons. I also have a record! Although I'm not a murderer, a burglar or someone involved in a violent crime, I doubt they would want me.

I tell ya though, if they would give me a gig where I could go out with the troops and write on my laptop at the end of the day, I'd go in a heartbeat! They'd have to give me a pistol and an M16 though and that's a scary thought! :)

[TheStripey1]

Again - what part of that quote is political?

maybe the part about liberals needing to wake up... YOU set the tone with it.

IF you didn't intend it to be political, you should have left that sentence out... and then we all could have just looked at the pictures and commiserated about them.

[-Cp]

maybe the part about liberals needing to wake up... YOU set the tone with it.

IF you didn't intend it to be political, you should have left that sentence out... and then we all could have just looked at the pictures and commiserated about them.

You're missing the point Stripey..... What part of the sentence you quoted has to do with politics?

[jimnyc]

Was that the one PBS did?

No... when I asked you if you saw any of the videos, I meant the "conspiracy" videos.

I'm not sure of the origin, it was in fact on TV but the version I saw was reposted on the internet. I've seen both parts of "Loose Change" and a few others I can't remember the names of. Right off the top of my head - the guys from Loose Change claim there were no plane parts found at the pentagon, even though I saw tens of pictures of the fuselage and other parts myself. Their credibility is horrible, IMO. Their reporting on the WTC was nothing more than conspiracy and really had no basis in fact and no supporting documentation to go along with their theories. The now infamous article from popular mechanics blew their story clear out of the water.

[TheStripey1]

Quite honestly? I just think my made up scenario would probably be close to the truth! I'm 39 and have a 6 year old boy. I have about 25 tattoo's and have drank enough booze and done enough drugs in my life than you'll find in most prisons. I also have a record! Although I'm not a murderer, a burglar or someone involved in a violent crime, I doubt they would want me.

I tell ya though, if they would give me a gig where I could go out with the troops and write on my laptop at the end of the day, I'd go in a heartbeat! They'd have to give me a pistol and an M16 though and that's a scary thought! :)

Well, you're too old for the marines, navy and the air force but the army has raised their age limit to 42. They don't care if you have a family or a record. They neeeeeeeeed you...

Not sure about the tats... I know the marines just said no big tats, but I'm not sure if the army cares. cuz... They neeeeeeeeed you...

:poke:

[TheStripey1]

You're missing the point Stripey..... What part of the sentence you quoted has to do with politics?

maybe the part about liberals needing to wake up... YOU set the tone with it.

IF you didn't intend it to be political, you should have left that sentence out... and then we all could have just looked at the pictures and commiserated about them.

[-Cp]

maybe the part about liberals needing to wake up... YOU set the tone with it.

IF you didn't intend it to be political, you should have left that sentence out... and then we all could have just looked at the pictures and commiserated about them.

Once again.. please name the part of the sentence that was political... you don't need to recite the entire thing.. just the part which was political..

[jimnyc]

Well, you're too old for the marines, navy and the air force but the army has raised their age limit to 42. They don't care if you have a family or a record. They neeeeeeeeed you...

Not sure about the tats... I know the marines just said no big tats, but I'm not sure if the army cares. cuz... They neeeeeeeeed you...

:poke:

Well, my tattoo's aren't necessarily big, unless of course you add 'em all up! Does both arms completely covered and a dog on my chest count as large?

Stripey, I'm starting to get the feeling you're trying to get rid of me! I'm betting if you and my wife ever got together you guys would go and sign me up while I was drunk and I'd come to at Parris Island!

[TheStripey1]

I'm not sure of the origin, it was in fact on TV but the version I saw was reposted on the internet. I've seen both parts of "Loose Change" and a few others I can't remember the names of. Right off the top of my head - the guys from Loose Change claim there were no plane parts found at the pentagon, even though I saw tens of pictures of the fuselage and other parts myself. Their credibility is horrible, IMO. Their reporting on the WTC was nothing more than conspiracy and really had no basis in fact and no supporting documentation to go along with their theories. The now infamous article from popular mechanics blew their story clear out of the water.

maybe... maybe not... have you seen 9/11 Mysteries? (http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=15716)

It was produced by a conservative bent on refuting what he had seen in Loose Change...

[TheStripey1]

Once again.. please name the part of the sentence that was political... you don't need to recite the entire thing.. just the part which was political..

the part about liberals needing to wake up. THAT was a political statement and played quite well to your right winger audience. And not well at all to us lefties. So... YOU set the tone with your political statement.

Are you now trying to say that you think that was just a friendly comment? I didn't take it that way and neither did mfm...

[jimnyc]

maybe... maybe not... have you seen 9/11 Mysteries? (http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=15716)

It was produced by a conservative bent on refuting what he had seen in Loose Change...

Not yet, but I'll watch it now...

[TheStripey1]

Well, my tattoo's aren't necessarily big, unless of course you add 'em all up! Does both arms completely covered and a dog on my chest count as large?

Stripey, I'm starting to get the feeling you're trying to get rid of me! I'm betting if you and my wife ever got together you guys would go and sign me up while I was drunk and I'd come to at Parris Island!

get rid of you??? heavens no, jimnyc... neva hatchi...

but if you did sign up, you wouldn't wake up at parris Island... that's the marine corps boot camp... you'd be in the army now, not behind the plow, you'd never get rich... etc...

Not sure if those tats would eliminate you now... but I bet KBR wouldn't care about them...

[TheStripey1]

Not yet, but I'll watch it now...


Thanks... and it made my jaw drop... and in more than one segment, too...

now don't get me wrong... I'm not buying into the conspiracies that say bush et al were IN on it... heavens no... cuz IMO, their mishandling of everything from finding OBL to invading Iraq to Katrina belies the supposition that they had anything to do with 9/11...

I'm just don't buy the explanation, anymore, that the towers fell on their own... not after seeing this...

[-Cp]

the part about liberals needing to wake up. THAT was a political statement and played quite well to your right winger audience. And not well at all to us lefties. So... YOU set the tone with your political statement.

Are you now trying to say that you think that was just a friendly comment? I didn't take it that way and neither did mfm...

And how is talking about liberals, political?

[Dilloduck]

Thanks... and it made my jaw drop... and in more than one segment, too...

now don't get me wrong... I'm not buying into the conspiracies that say bush et al were IN on it... heavens no... cuz IMO, their mishandling of everything from finding OBL to invading Iraq to Katrina belies the supposition that they had anything to do with 9/11...

I'm just don't buy the explanation, anymore, that the towers fell on their own... not after seeing this...

They didn't fall on their own--they we hit by big ass airplanes loaded with jet fuel and innocent Americans

[Gaffer]

Ahhhh stripy, the ward churchill of the internet forums. Back to encourage your minions and pat them on the back for their good work I see. With the usual challenge for everyone to join the military if they really want to support the troops.

I find your references to the Army insulting. I was in the Army. And your correct, I am a hawk, just like every other vet I have been associated with. You want everyone to go out and enlist. I suggest the line form right behind you.

As for the conspiracy theorists, they are people with too much time on their hands. They need to join the military. That is your standard answer to everything isn't it?

I have noticed you have a routine. Come in on a Friday, respond to every post in a thread where the libs are taking a beating. Then leave fo two weeks, then return and start fresh in new threads. Interesting way to do it so you don't get bogged down answering direct questions. Let the minions do the dirty work while you stay aloof and in command. The weekly pep talks is a nice touch. Keep em motivated with regular training sessions.

See ya at the recruiters.

[jimnyc]

maybe... maybe not... have you seen 9/11 Mysteries? (http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=15716)

It was produced by a conservative bent on refuting what he had seen in Loose Change...

Stripey, I've taken the time and spent about 3hrs between last evening and this morning watching the video you referred me to, as well as another involving the same video. I have to be honest, it sounded more to me like a video full of rhetoric tossed together by some conspiracy theorists. While I'm certainly not a scientist or engineer, here are some inconsistencies or errors I believe I have found in the video.

The claim the beginning that firemen reported only "pockets of fire". - These were isolated reports from firemen IN the building who didn't know exactly what was transpiring above them. It was quite obvious to anyone who saw footage from that day that fires were abundant throughout many floors in both buildings that were struck.

The stated it wasn't as hot as reported, yet they showed footage of people standing in the windows begging for help. We also know that many people leaped to their deaths. If it wasn't that hot, why would these people choose death rather than stay behind and wait for help?

They made a point of stating that the towers were made to withstand 150mph winds from hurricanes. Sorry, but planes hitting the towers and making specific points of structural damage in no way is comparable to a hurricane which would evenly "hit" the building.

They made statements that buildings designed of steel have never fallen from fire before. First off, this is incorrect, it has happened before. Secondly, how many buildings in history have been hit by 767's filled with jet fuel?

They point out throughout the video that planted bombs likely took down the buildings but NEVER show any proof of this, and also forget to point out that the plane itself hitting the building was a HUGE bomb.

They make a point of stating that steel, concrete and glass don't burn. But they do hold heat, and steel specifically doesn't need to actually burn to become unstable.

They point out multiple explosions throughout the building. Of course, I would imagine the amount of damage that was done by the planes impact and following fires would in fact cause parts of floors to collapse, elevator shafts to be consumed & electrical devices to explode.

The state that steel won't burn or break. It wouldn't have needed to, it only needed to "bend" to become structurally unsound enough to cause collapse.

They ask how bone fragments ended up on buildings neighboring buildings. What do they think happened to the people on the planes hitting the building at 550+ mph, or those in the direct path of those planes?

They imply that windows blown out and damage in the lobby was from explosions down there. The initial impact and resulting fireballs likely caused the fire & oxygen to race down the elevator shafts and out through various openings and floors.

They ask how the foundation walls could have moved. How about a million tons of steel falling on them?

They point out that the ground continued to burn and smolder for weeks after 9/11, but earlier stated that there was little fire and not enough heat. They even pointed out that weeks after 9/11 there were pockets of 1100 degree heat. If it was that hot weeks later, how hot was it on that day?

The speak of liquified steel yet earlier in the video they stated steel couldn't "burn".

They claim WTC7 only had small fires and smoke, but fail to mention the structural damage it took on the lower floors. http://wtc7corner.blogspot.com/

They pointed out that Giuliani wasn't in WTC7. Of course not! He was at the main towers when they started to fall, and then took up shelter elsewhere in a makeshift command center. By that time the damage was already done to WTC7.

They implied "Securacom" wired the buildings for demolition for years leading up to 9/11. They even showed "fake" pictures of workers working with ammunition for effect. So many people and so many years, yet not a shred of proof and not a single person coming forward? That's a hell of a conspiracy to cover up!

They claim later in the film that poor fireproofing allowed fires to go easily throughout the floors. But wait a minute, they said earlier in the film that there were only a "few pockets" of fire!

Claims of construction going on within unused floors throughout the building, once again implying that this was the work going on of demolition experts. Where are all of these people? So many people involved and not a shred of evidence and not a sngle person coming forward.

They state in the film that major demolitions of major buildings are generally done so by the military, and that not even civilian blasters understood what took place that day. Funny how these civilian blasters were good enough to use as supposed evidence earlier in the film to imply the building was a controlled demolition.

After I finished watching this film and taking my notes, I watched another "re-take" of the film. This film does better at blowing their theories clear out of the water than I could ever had hoped to do. I hope you'll give this film a peek as I did the one you recommended, as I think what is pointed out in this film is much more believable and states much more facts.

http://www.floppingaces.net/2007/01/20/911-mysteries-debunked/

[retiredman]

And how is talking about liberals, political?

are you referring to "liberals" as people who are liberal in the way they use ketchup, or liberal in the way they apply eye makeup or liberal in the way they give to charities??

for some reason, I was under the impression that you were talking about people who were liberal in their POLITICAL PHILOSOPHY!!!!!

[-Cp]

are you referring to "liberals" as people who are liberal in the way they use ketchup, or liberal in the way they apply eye makeup or liberal in the way they give to charities??

for some reason, I was under the impression that you were talking about people who were liberal in their POLITICAL PHILOSOPHY!!!!!

I was talking about liberals who are too dumb to see that the war against jihadists is well beyond the country of Afghanistan.

I was referring to the liberals who have forgotten about that tragic day and have a strong desire for the war in Iraq to fail - after all, a win in Iraq is bad for them.

I was referring to liberals who think it was somehow better for the people of Iraq to live under Saddam and his sons than to have their own chance of some sort of freedom and the ability to perch up their own fashion of government.

I was talking to liberals who blame Bush for everything wrong in their lives, yet give so many other folks a complete pass for saying the same things before he was even in Office.

I was talking to liberals who are so short-sighted that they forget that 9/11 can and will happen again once those that wish to kill more Americans are able to execute their next vile plan. Let us only hope that when it does happen that it's in a wonderful city like San Francisco - at least it'd help take out a ton of liberals - oops, was that my inner-voice failing me again? :P

Liberals have been on the wrong side of history time and time again:

- Liberals thought that Carter's pasifiscm would lead to peace - they were wrong.

- Liberals thought that Reagan's Arms build-up would lead to war, not peace - they were wrong.

- Liberals thought that giving peace a chance after Saddam invaded Kuwait in the 90's was the way to go - they were wrong.

- Liberals now think that going into Iraq was a bad idea - Nevermind the fact that we've liberated 25 million people and closed the rape-rooms and torture chambers of Saddam and his sons forever - they will be proven to be wrong in the prism of history.

You see, Liberalism isn't a political view as there are really only two long-standing political parties in this country, Republicans and Democrats. No, liberalism is a spiritual/mental disorder that God told us in his word would plauge the minds of people towards the last days - The Bible refers to this as a reprobate mind in Romans 1.

1. a depraved, unprincipled, or wicked person: a drunken reprobate.
2. a person rejected by God and beyond hope of salvation.
3. morally depraved; unprincipled; bad.

[trobinett]

show me where I suggested that they were "suddenly spot on"


how about not nitpicking one phrase and addressing my overall point?

Here's an idea, how about being just a tad more CLEAR.

I certainly thought you were suggesting that they WERE "spot on".

Shame on me............:lame2:

[retiredman]

Lets do this point by point:

I was talking about liberals who are too dumb to see that the war against jihadists is well beyond the country of Afghanistan.

bullshit. I have NEVER suggested that the war against islamic extremism ought to be confined to one country. I HAVE suggested that invading, conquering, and occupying a country where little to no islamic extremists existed and which was run, brutally perhaps, by secular ba'athists was a dumbass counterproductive diversion in our war against our real enemy.

I was referring to the liberals who have forgotten about that tragic day and have a strong desire for the war in Iraq to fail - after all, a win in Iraq is bad for them.

more bullshgit. NO ONE in America thinks that America losing at ANYTHING is a GOOD thing. The "war" in Iraq has been "won" for a few years now...the occupation of Iraq, the cramming of jeffersonian multicultural democracy down the throats of Iraqis at the point of a gun...THAT has not gone well at all, and many many of us warned against just such a political defeat long ago.

I was referring to liberals who think it was somehow better for the people of Iraq to live under Saddam and his sons than to have their own chance of some sort of freedom and the ability to perch up their own fashion of government.

PUH-LEESE. Abandoning our fight against the islamic extremists who attacked us and going after a brutal secular baathist regime because they were brutal to their own people and the sons of the leader liked to score some strange pussy now and then, is ridiculous. There are far worse humanitarian disasters going on around the globe and we don't give a shit about them.

I was talking to liberals who blame Bush for everything wrong in their lives, yet give so many other folks a complete pass for saying the same things before he was even in Office.

more and more bullshit. I think Bush has been a rather inconsequential president who has impacted my life in fairly minimal ways - except for the war in Iraq. I certainly do not "blame" him for anything wrong in my life.... I only blame him for losing sight of our real enemy and invading Iraq to bolster flagging poll ratings and to bolster the bottom lines of Haliburton , et. al.

I was talking to liberals who are so short-sighted that they forget that 9/11 can and will happen again once those that wish to kill more Americans are able to execute their next vile plan. Let us only hope that when it does happen that it's in a wonderful city like San Francisco - at least it'd help take out a ton of liberals - oops, was that my inner-voice failing me again? :P

I agree that 9/11 can and will happen again and I am sickened by the fact that we have wasted so much time, blood and treasure in Iraq that could have been better used in making our borders and our ports of entry truly safe from attack. The fact that you would wish ill on your fellow Americans is truly and profoundly despicable and makes me ill.

Liberals have been on the wrong side of history time and time again:

- Liberals thought that Carter's pasifiscm would lead to peace - they were wrong.

not me. I voted against Carter in '80 because he failed to start out and stay tough with Tehran.

- Liberals thought that Reagan's Arms build-up would lead to war, not peace - they were wrong.

not me. I thought that his arms build up would mean two things and I was right....one, more money for me, and two, greater debt for America.

- Liberals thought that giving peace a chance after Saddam invaded Kuwait in the 90's was the way to go - they were wrong.

bullshit. I was completely supportive of kicking Saddam out of Kuwait.

- Liberals now think that going into Iraq was a bad idea - Nevermind the fact that we've liberated 25 million people and closed the rape-rooms and torture chambers of Saddam and his sons forever - they will be proven to be wrong in the prism of history.

again... our first priority ought to be protecting Americans, not protecting the virtue of Iraqi women. What we have done in Iraq may very well have done all the things you claim, but it still does not make that worth five years, 31K dead and wounded Americans and a half a trillion dollars while the real enemy remains just as strong as he was the day he attacked us.

You see, Liberalism isn't a political view as there are really only two long-standing political parties in this country, Republicans and Democrats. No, liberalism is a spiritual/mental disorder that God told us in his word would plauge the minds of people towards the last days - The Bible refers to this as a reprobate mind in Romans 1.

1. a depraved, unprincipled, or wicked person: a drunken reprobate.
2. a person rejected by God and beyond hope of salvation.
3. morally depraved; unprincipled; bad.

I think it is grotesquely hypocritical for someone like you to be quoting the New Testament to me. Do you really think that Jesus would approve of shock and awe? of Haditha? of Abu Ghraib? Do you really think, that if George Bush had listened to Jesus that he would have invaded Iraq?

[Yurt]

manfrommaine;124559]Lets do this point by point:

I was talking about liberals who are too dumb to see that the war against jihadists is well beyond the country of Afghanistan.

bullshit. I have NEVER suggested that the war against islamic extremism ought to be confined to one country. I HAVE suggested that invading, conquering, and occupying a country where little to no islamic extremists existed and which was run, brutally perhaps, by secular ba'athists was a dumbass counterproductive diversion in our war against our real enemy.

Ok, so you fully support invading Saudi Arabia???

And don't forget, that while Saddam and cronies "may" have been "secular", Saddam is a SUNNI. And guess which Islamic group, bin hiden included, is fighting us...............SUNNI. Get a book on islam, if they have one in Maine.

And please, don't tell me to do anything to your ass again, either answer the post or stfu, because you are horrible at insults. I don't mind insults, but they have to be at least a wee funny.






more bullshgit. NO ONE in America thinks that America losing at ANYTHING is a GOOD thing. The "war" in Iraq has been "won" for a few years now...the occupation of Iraq, the cramming of jeffersonian multicultural democracy down the throats of Iraqis [B]at the point of a gun...THAT has not gone well at all, and many many of us warned against just such a political defeat long ago.


Whose gun? The loving muslims who threaten AND kill those who work with America? Are you effing dense? Those guys will take your family if you work with America and they don't approve. Give me a break you effing armchair soda pop, cheeto pushing warrior. Get a grip and not on your armchair.....




PUH-LEESE. Abandoning our fight against the islamic extremists who attacked us and going after a brutal secular baathist regime because they were brutal to their own people and the sons of the leader liked to score some strange pussy now and then, is ridiculous. There are far worse humanitarian disasters going on around the globe and we don't give a shit about them.

You're right. I am sorry for ever going against you. Saddam should be in power today. Absolutely. He should be left UNCHECKED in power, today, yesterday and tomorrow. Sorry for screwing that up for you.

[retiredman]

Ok, so you fully support invading Saudi Arabia???

why is INVASION of nation states the only possible solution for dealing with a nationless ideology?

And don't forget, that while Saddam and cronies "may" have been "secular", Saddam is a SUNNI. And guess which Islamic group, bin hiden included, is fighting us...............SUNNI. Get a book on islam, if they have one in Maine.

Don't be obtuse. for you to suggest that wahabbist extremism is some logical progression of the sunni sect shows that if anyone needs a book on Islam, it is you. I would give you my old and well worn copy of Raphael Patai's "The Arab Mind" except I still refer to it often. It is still available at Amazon, however. I highly recommend it. The fact is: ba'athism and wahabbism are diametrically opposed at almost every level


Whose gun? The loving muslims who threaten AND kill those who work with America? Are you effing dense? Those guys will take your family if you work with America and they don't approve. Give me a break you effing armchair soda pop, cheeto pushing warrior. Get a grip and not on your armchair.....

Wow.... what a huge cyber penis you have! I am suggesting that assuming that we could just blithely cram jeffersonian multicultural democracy down the throats of mortal enemies and watch them miraculously swallow and commence the group hug and the singing of kumbaya was a horrible miscalculation borne of the same sort of arrogance that you routinely display.

You're right. I am sorry for ever going against you. Saddam should be in power today. Absolutely. He should be left UNCHECKED in power, today, yesterday and tomorrow. Sorry for screwing that up for you.

Do you always leap to hyperbolic excess? Saddam WAS checked in his power. Go read the remarks of Colin Powell made in Cairo six months before 9/11. The fact remains, that, in our global war against islamic extremism, we are doing three things poorly that we would love to be doing better: 1. keeping AQ out of Iraq. 2. Keeping sunnis and shi'ites from slaughtering one another in Iraq, and 3. Keeping Iran's regional hegemony in check. Saddam did all three of those better than we do.