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Kathianne
06-24-2020, 10:59 PM
Pretty much in AZ too:

https://hotair.com/archives/allahpundit/2020/06/24/new-covid-hot-spot-states-headed-soft-lockdowns/


Are The New COVID Hot-Spot States Headed For “Soft” Lockdowns?
ALLAHPUNDITPosted at 10:41 pm on June 24, 2020

By “soft” lockdown, I mean a situation in which everyone from the governor to the local health authorities recognizes that the virus is spreading at a sufficiently dangerous rate that everyone should stay home — but no formal stay-at-home order is issued. That would be a “hard” lockdown, but for reasons of basic human psychology I’m not sure politicians are willing to do that again. Not because people won’t follow new stay-at-home orders; there’s reason to believe that they will. Rather, I think it’s a function of not wanting to admit “failure” by reverting to formal lockdown status after reopening. That would put us back at square one after a long effort to move forward.


Which would be terrifying. Even people like me who were skeptical of reopening early might be guilty of magical thinking with respect to COVID-19. That is, although we all had different opinions on when we thought it was “safe” to reopen, we all believed that it would be safe at some point. Red states thought it would be safe in May; blue states held out a bit longer. But everyone had their own personal benchmark for when they believed transmission might be at a sufficiently low level that we could reemerge and — with proper precautions — engage in commerce without triggering a major outbreak.

But what if we were all wrong? What if the virus is sufficiently contagious that there’s just no way to prevent what Arizona and Texas and Florida and California and South Carolina are going through right now? Yeah, if we all wore masks and we all kept six feet away at all times, maybe we could hold down transmission. But that’s never going to happen. Some segment of the population will always break the rules in the belief that it can’t happen to them — and if it does, it won’t be so bad. (The young are probably especially susceptible to that thinking.) What if we *can’t* reopen for any sustained period of time without sparking an outbreak that’s going to drive us into “soft” lockdown again within a month or two?

That’s no idle hypothetical. I remember reading about various epidemiological models in the early days of the pandemic that predicted exactly this outcome. We’d be stuck in an endless cycle of locking down, then reopening, then locking down again, then reopening again, etc, because there simply wouldn’t be a way to hold down transmissions to a “manageable” level during the reopening periods. We’d always end up having to take extreme measures to control the fire before it burned out of control, because it burns just that quickly.

It’s already happening in Texas. The “soft” lockdown now exists in all but name, with Gov. Greg Abbott explicitly warning residents that it’s best not to leave the house right now (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/23/world/coronavirus-updates.html).


In Texas, Mr. Abbott renewed his warnings in an interview with the television station KBTX.
“Because the spread is so rampant right now, there is never a reason for you to have to leave your home unless you do need to go out,” he said. “The safest place for you is at your home.”…

“There remain a lot of people in the state of Texas who think the spread of Covid-19 is really not a challenge,” said Mr. Abbott, who has resisted the idea of another lockdown.



“Don’t go out unless you have a good reason” sure sounds more like a lockdown than a reopening. But what else can Abbott responsibly say? There is in fact a “massive” outbreak (https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/texas/article/governor-greg-abbott-massive-outbreak-5000-cases-15363593.php) happening in Texas right now, to borrow his words, with authorities scrambling to make sure hospital capacity is available in case there are soon more critical cases than there are beds. That’s no idle hypothetical either:


As of this morning ICU capacity in the city was at 97 percent, with Texas Children’s Hospital — the largest pediatric hospital in the U.S. — opening its doors to adults (https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/1275819283063463938) in order to handle the crush.

Hospitals having to prepare for surge capacity is one obvious hallmark of a lockdown scenario, replete with postponing elective surgeries in order to free up resources. That may be coming soon to Texas and other states as well:

Another hallmark is businesses shuttering as the risk of transmission reaches frightening levels. In a “hard” lockdown, the state mandates that. In a “soft” lockdown, businesses do it voluntarily because they don’t want their employees or customers to die. Guess what:

Consumers also act accordingly in a “soft” lockdown scenario by declining to patronize businesses in order to avoid being infected. We’ve all seen the graphs of restaurant reservations in New York City falling off a cliff in March even before stay-at-home orders went into effect there. Well, again, guess what’s happening in Houston and other new hot-spot areas like North Carolina:

There’s a school of thought that appeals to me that holds that “hard” lockdowns don’t do much to contain the spread. When an outbreak reaches a point of such alarming prevalence that a formal stay-at-home order is necessary to try to contain it, the public will necessarily already be aware of it and will act voluntarily to limit its own exposure. (That’s why restaurant reservations in NYC tailed off before the lockdown began.) But watching cases spike in Houston as Texas attempts a “soft” lockdown has me rethinking that. There may be some segment of the public that simply will not believe there’s a dire emergency requiring them to stay home unless the state takes some extraordinary formal step to convey that. Greg Abbott telling people in morning news interviews “you’re better off not going out” just might not hack it. A person who really wants to go out will watch that and think, “If it’s as bad as he’s saying he’d just do a new lockdown.” Whereas a formal lockdown order will get that person to think, “Sh*t, it really must be bad if they’re locking down again.”

That is, “hard” lockdowns may work to limit the spread more effectively than “soft” lockdowns not because they force businesses to close their doors but because they communicate in a singularly urgent way how unsafe it is to be around others. Think of the old terror-alert system in the years after 9/11. If you tell people we’re at orange alert, with a highly elevated risk of terrorism, they’re not going to alter their behavior much. What does “highly elevated” even mean? Tell them we’re at red alert, though, and they’ll sit up and pay attention. Abbott’s “soft” lockdown may be the COVID-19 equivalent of orange alert. If you want people to sit up, red alert may be the only option.
Here’s video from CNN that’s making the rounds today showing people in Florida inveighing against masks. A nice explainer for why we just might not be able to sustain a durable reopening as a country without breeding new exponential growth.

SassyLady
06-25-2020, 12:25 AM
$50.00 fine for not wearing a mask. Surrounding towns are not enforcing.


TUCSON, Ariz. (KOLD News 13) - Starting Saturday, Tucsonans must wear face coverings in public. Thursday afternoon, Mayor Regina Romero signed the emergency proclamation (https://www.tucsonaz.gov/covid-19/city-face-covering-requirement-faq)into law.

“Public health experts have said that using face coverings and facemasks is one of the most effective ways of helping stop the spread of COVID-19,” said Romero. “When one person wears it and another doesn’t, it really leaves people open to the continuation of the COVID-19 spread.”

Romero says it was the trajectory of positive COVID-19 cases that prompted her to “act swiftly” on the city’s behalf.

“We saw numbers spiking related to the reopening of businesses in Arizona,” she said. “Just Tuesday, we saw one of the biggest spikes of cases throughout the state; we had about 2,400 cases in one day. In Pima County alone, on Tuesday, we saw 325 [positive] COVID-19 cases.”

Under the proclamation, informed by C.D.C. recommendations, those over the age of 2 must wear face coverings when social distancing is not possible in public. This includes public transit, taxis and ride-sharing vehicles, grocery stores, retail stores, healthcare facilities, pharmacies, gyms, bars and restaurants.

“ when not seated,” said Romero. “So, when they are seated and have their food in front of them, they can take their face mask off.”

Face coverings will also be required in office settings and outdoors when people are within 6 feet of each other.

Exceptions will be made at pools and dental clinics, and for those with medical conditions or developmental disabilities making the use of a face covering difficult.

First responders will not be required to wear face coverings if it interferes or limits their ability to carry out their duties.

Daycares are asked to use best practices. Enforcement will be flexible with children.

“We added language in the proclamation that says, ‘As much as parents or guardians can control their children’,” Romero said.

KOLD News 13 took the proclamation to the street to find out what residents think.

“I support it. I think just out of common courtesy for the people who I’m around I would want to be wearing a face covering,” said Victoria Davis. “I know that I’m doing everything in my power to make sure I’m not spreading it, so it makes me feel more comfortable knowing that others are doing the same thing.”


“I am a Type One diabetic,” said Elizabeth Ogunbunmi. “I wholeheartedly agree that people should be wearing masks.”

“I am against it because I don’t know how [the city] plans on funding it,” said Thomas Glenn. “I work at a hospital and hospital staff don’t have enough masks, let alone N95s. If it’s just face coverings, I don’t really see a need for that because they are not N95 masks. I’d like to see how they plan on enforcing that, too.”


Comments on all sides of the spectrum poured in on social media. (https://www.facebook.com/KOLDNews/photos/a.166901176749900/2790941814345810/?type=3&theater)



“We are going to have an educational approach [to enforcement],” said Romero. “If there is a blatant disregard to the public health of others - if absolutely necessary - we will issue a civil infraction.”


[I]That civil penalty could cost up to $50 or 5 hours of community service, enforced by Tucson Police.


The city says it will distribute face coverings to low income residents.



https://www.kold.com/2020/06/19/face-coverings-mandatory-public-tucsonans-respond/

Kathianne
06-25-2020, 01:04 AM
Mandatory face masks hit here last Saturday. Seems our zip code is the hardest hit in the state. (Figures I'd live with that sort of title. :smoke: ).

Same with the 'education,' rather than turning away. Walmart not giving out masks either. Every day more and more are wearing them and less people are out and about. I think the message is getting through. Today there were not more than 3 people without mask.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
06-25-2020, 07:51 AM
For me far too much lying has recently been revealed in regards to the numbers that were grossly inflated in order to spread fear and panic.
Am I now to suddenly start believing the new lying numbers? I think not!!
Those that did it in the first place are still doing it again, imho.
They did not just cease because they were exposed! They do not ever act that way..
The whole thing was way, way, way overblown into a huge scam to be a political tool, a political weapon.
"Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me", certainly applies here, imho..
I was raised by a very wise father and taught to be very, very, wary of liars and those assorted asshole types
that the dem party/ media/liberals is made up of...
So no- I will not be wearing a damn mask............ more dem/media/globalist hype will not change my mind..-Tyr

edit- Does anybody really think that the media and the worthless lying, corrupt dems suddenly gave up on their political charade, their ever so successful
grossly hyped up virus pandemic scam???
black protesters exempt, transgender protesters exempt, etc. etc. etc..
damn how does that magical virus know to not touch these ever so special chosen groups???? :laugh::laugh::laugh:-Tyr

Evmetro
06-25-2020, 08:05 AM
When considering soft or hard lockdowns, one should consider why the original 2 week lockdown was implemented in the first place. It was never about reducing the eventual number of people who become infected, got hospitalized, or died from coronavirus. The 2 week lockdown was only meant to "flatten the curve", which simply means stretching out the amount of time it takes for mother nature to run her course and infecting the same number of people. When considering the merits of soft or hard lockdowns, one only needs to consider if our hospitals are going to be overwhelmed with covid cases or not. Spikes in the curve don't matter if the number of covid infections are inevitable, as long as our hospitals can handle the volume. Even at the peak of the curve, our hospitals had room for more.

The notion that we can stand in the way of what Mother Nature has in store for us by having lockdowns, social distancing, or wearing masks, is like trying to protect ourselves from a nuclear bomb by wearing sunglasses and long sleeves. Herd immunity is what mother nature appears to have in store for us, and mother nature will have her way. Coronaviruses have been around for decades, so maybe we should just get back to life the way it was before the way it was before the covid propaganda campaign began.

Abbey Marie
06-25-2020, 09:40 AM
Mandatory face masks hit here last Saturday. Seems our zip code is the hardest hit in the state. (Figures I'd live with that sort of title. :smoke: ).

Same with the 'education,' rather than turning away. Walmart not giving out masks either. Every day more and more are wearing them and less people are out and about. I think the message is getting through. Today there were not more than 3 people without mask.

Stay safe, Kath. I need to call my brother...

jimnyc
06-25-2020, 09:58 AM
This hit me like a ton of bricks last week and I suddenly realized just what an idiot I have been, and my prediction for that point forward...

Was that they would bring the virus back. Fear tactics would go back to defcon 5. Massive deaths and hospitalizations. Talk of lockdown #2, and back to crazy times. But I also told my Dad that you watch, the protests and anything associated will be helped along by democrats and the media, and no rules would apply to them.

They WANT to keep every last drop of negativity out there if possible. They couldn't care less about any resolution to matters around the country pertaining to protests, violence, looting & endless destruction. In fact, they are helping it as much as they can. The virus and protests are an answer to their prayers.

And I also said they would use the fear tactics to keep things bolted down, including Biden and keep him from live TV as much as humanly possible. Hell, now there is talk of the convention in like 6 weeks, and how it will now be all virtual, and even Joe will be so. I'm thinking it will appear live but likely recorded like 30 minutes earlier to prevent screwups.

Oh, and I also said they would find everything and anything to investigate Trump and team, even if made up, just to keep things going against him. Liberals can deny if they wish, but there is a LONG list of folks on the left that should be in prison for trying to steal the 2016 election and then further trying to illegally remove a sitting president of the USA. And their shit continues!!

So how much have I been proven wrong on thus far? And anything else, think it'll happen prior to election time?

Gunny
06-25-2020, 12:03 PM
This hit me like a ton of bricks last week and I suddenly realized just what an idiot I have been, and my prediction for that point forward...

Was that they would bring the virus back. Fear tactics would go back to defcon 5. Massive deaths and hospitalizations. Talk of lockdown #2, and back to crazy times. But I also told my Dad that you watch, the protests and anything associated will be helped along by democrats and the media, and no rules would apply to them.

They WANT to keep every last drop of negativity out there if possible. They couldn't care less about any resolution to matters around the country pertaining to protests, violence, looting & endless destruction. In fact, they are helping it as much as they can. The virus and protests are an answer to their prayers.

And I also said they would use the fear tactics to keep things bolted down, including Biden and keep him from live TV as much as humanly possible. Hell, now there is talk of the convention in like 6 weeks, and how it will now be all virtual, and even Joe will be so. I'm thinking it will appear live but likely recorded like 30 minutes earlier to prevent screwups.

Oh, and I also said they would find everything and anything to investigate Trump and team, even if made up, just to keep things going against him. Liberals can deny if they wish, but there is a LONG list of folks on the left that should be in prison for trying to steal the 2016 election and then further trying to illegally remove a sitting president of the USA. And their shit continues!!

So how much have I been proven wrong on thus far? And anything else, think it'll happen prior to election time?It sounds a lot like y'all live in a different country than I do; which, I realized is a danger in and of itself.

Lockdown first. Texas was never locked down. The major blue cities in Texas were. When I say locked down for here, it was half ass at best. Because of this second wave which is really a first wave for us, we're on double-secret, "soft" lockdown meaning you are encouraged to observe the lockdown rules, and most tourist trap stuff is closed. Otherwise, it's business as susal except some bought all the TP up again :rolleyes:

The other point I made is we ARE living in our own World here. That means these rioters are tearing up places that have nothing to do with us, but THEY are getting the attention. When the Dems get done catering to them and the Republicans afraid to say no for fear of being called racist and whatnot, the new rules/laws will go into effect without our having had any say in the matter. We'll just be stuck with them.

Where's Rick Perry and his secession movement when he's needed?

Abbey Marie
06-25-2020, 12:51 PM
Kath, why do you think your zip code is especially hard-hit?

Gunny
06-25-2020, 01:43 PM
This hit me like a ton of bricks last week and I suddenly realized just what an idiot I have been, and my prediction for that point forward...

Was that they would bring the virus back. Fear tactics would go back to defcon 5. Massive deaths and hospitalizations. Talk of lockdown #2, and back to crazy times. But I also told my Dad that you watch, the protests and anything associated will be helped along by democrats and the media, and no rules would apply to them.

They WANT to keep every last drop of negativity out there if possible. They couldn't care less about any resolution to matters around the country pertaining to protests, violence, looting & endless destruction. In fact, they are helping it as much as they can. The virus and protests are an answer to their prayers.

And I also said they would use the fear tactics to keep things bolted down, including Biden and keep him from live TV as much as humanly possible. Hell, now there is talk of the convention in like 6 weeks, and how it will now be all virtual, and even Joe will be so. I'm thinking it will appear live but likely recorded like 30 minutes earlier to prevent screwups.

Oh, and I also said they would find everything and anything to investigate Trump and team, even if made up, just to keep things going against him. Liberals can deny if they wish, but there is a LONG list of folks on the left that should be in prison for trying to steal the 2016 election and then further trying to illegally remove a sitting president of the USA. And their shit continues!!

So how much have I been proven wrong on thus far? And anything else, think it'll happen prior to election time?You've mentioned this more than once jimnyc so hopefully we can keep it in one or two places :) You know how my memory is :laugh:

Yes, the virus and masks are being politicized by BOTH sides. Seems it's only deadly when convenient:rolleyes: So, our positions are reversed since this first began. We're getting slammed in the SW and y'all are pretty much leveled off. Changes nothing from MY POV. As it seems, and kathianne stated earlier in the thread, hasn't changed a lot of mind. Fewer people out. More wearing masks.

Lot of smokescreens going on. anarchists hiding out in BLM crowds until they make their move. BLM agitators hiding out among people protesting the right way until they can stir up some shit and/or make a move. Pelosi cheerleading both.

I stated in the beginning the antivirus was the left's/socialists/anarchists/BLM and Dems wet dream. I also stated if I was on the left I'd take advantage of it. So "those" trying to validate their chicken little, Monday Morning QBing because the perfect storm turned out to be the perfect storm need to STFU and listen to the adults.

Apparently so do our politicians. The solution was going to be messy. Now it's going to be messier. Tomorrow messier still. The US government historically has been incapable of proactivity, ; rather, they have to wait until there's a full-scale war to act and WAY more death and destruction than had they just acted from the beginning.

NOW, the virus and the politics are merged. The voice of reason, and common sense public safety was lost in the merger.

Kathianne
06-25-2020, 02:17 PM
Kath, why do you think your zip code is especially hard-hit?

Anything is speculation, with that said we're the largest city in the county, which is second largest county to Maricopa, which is where Phoenix is. Keep in mind that counties in AZ are huge and so much of the state is really federal land, Native land, and a sizable amount is uninhabited native desert. So, you're left with pockets of people. Most outsiders, (those carrying the virus) are tourists from CA and east coast, though in certain areas, (Sedona area), the midwest is represented.

For the past month to a month and half, we've had the CA snowbirds, going back and forth moving stuff back to summer homes. (These folks are 'ok, wealth wise, but not like the Sedona folks that are wealthy). They literally are making trips between states. Is that the 'spreading?' I dunno.