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avatar4321
09-15-2007, 05:53 AM
If you've been following the Norman Hsu campaign scandal with Hillary Clinton you know he was found on a Train allegedly with a suicide note. This is not the first time people caught in scandal near the Clintons have popped up dead under mysterious circumstances.

What I thought was very interesting is Rush Limbaugh even predicted before Hsu turned up that he wouldnt be surprised if there was a "suicide" attempt. And then par for the course there is one. If you don't think there is something fishy going on with this, you probably should. Because there is only so much coincidence that can happen before its no longer a coincidence.

So surfing on the web I found a list of people close to the Clintons who have died under mysterious circumstances. It wasnt at a specific website on the issue, but was actually a yahoo question. But the list is detailed and I am curious information people know about it and how liberals could consider voting for someone with some many people close to them dying mysterious deaths.

So here is the list:

1 - James McDougal - Clinton's convicted Whitewater partner died of an apparent heart attack, while in solitary confinement. He was a key witness in Ken Starr's investigation.

2 - Mary Mahoney - A former White House intern was murdered July 1997 at a Starbucks Coffee Shop in Georgetown. The murder happened just after she was to go public with her story of sexual harassment in the White House.

3 - Vince Foster - Former white House councilor, and colleague of Hillary Clinton at Little Rock's Rose Law firm. Died of a gunshot wound to the head, ruled a suicide.

4 - Ron Brown - Secretary of Commerce and former DNC Chairman. Reported to have died by impact in a plane crash. A pathologist close to the investigation reported that there was a hole in the top of Brown's skull resembling a gunshot wound. At the time of his death Brown was being investigated, and spoke publicly of his willingness to cut a deal with prosecutors.

5 - C. Victor Raiser II and Montgomery Raiser, Major players in the Clinton fund raising organization died in a private plane crash in July 1992.

6 - Paul Tulley - Democratic National Committee Political Director found dead in a hotel room in Little Rock, September 1992... Described by Clinton as a "Dear friend and trusted advisor."

7- Ed Willey - Clinton fund raiser, found dead November 1993 deep in the woods in VA of a gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide.

Ed Willey died on the same day his wife Kathleen Willey claimed Bill Clinton groped her in the oval office in the White House. Ed Willey was involved in several Clinton fund raising events.

8 - Jerry Parks - Head of Clinton's gubernatorial security team in Little Rock. Gunned down in his car at a deserted intersection outside Little Rock. Park's son said his father was building a dossier on Clinton. He allegedly threatened to reveal this information. After he died the files were mysteriously removed from his house.

9 - James Bunch - Died from a gunshot suicide. It was reported that he had a "Black Book" of people which contained names of influential people who visited prostitutes in Texas and Arkansas.

10 - James Wilson - Was found dead in May 1993 from an apparent hanging suicide. He was reported to have ties to Whitewat er.

11- Kathy Ferguson, ex-wife of Arkansas Trooper Danny Ferguson, was found dead in May 1994, in her living room with a gunshot to her head. It was ruled a suicide even though there were several packed suitcases, as if she were going somewhere. Danny Ferguson was a co-defendant along with Bill Clinton in the Paula Jones lawsuit. Kathy Ferguson was a possible corroborating witness for Paula Jones.

12 - Bill Shelton - Arkansas State Trooper and fiancee of Kathy
Ferguson. Critical of the suicide ruling of his fiancee, he was found dead in June, 1994 of a gunshot wound also ruled a suicide at the grave site of his fiancee.

13 - Gandy Baugh - Attorney for Clinton's friend Dan Lassater, died by jumping out a window of a tall building January, 1994. His client was a convicted drug distributor.

14 - Florence Martin - Accountant & sub-contractor for the CIA, was related to the Barry Seal Mena Airport drug smuggling case. He died of three gunshot wounds.

15 - Suzanne Coleman - Reportedly had an affair with Clinton when he was Arkansas Attorney General. Died of a gunshot wound to the back of the head, ruled a suicide. Was pregnant at the time of her death.

16 - Paula Grober - Clinton's speech interpreter for the deaf from 1978 until her death December 9, 1992. She died in a one car accident.

17 - Danny Casolaro - Investigative reporter. Investigating Mena Airport and Arkansas Development Finance Authority. He slit his wrists, apparently, in the middle of his investigation.

18 - Paul Wilcher - Attorney investigating corruption at Mena Airport with Casolaro and the 1980 "October Surprise" was found dead on a toilet June 22, 1993 in his Washington DC apartment. Had delivered a report to Janet Reno three weeks before his death.

< B>19 - Jon Parnell Walker - Whitewater investigator for Resolution Trust Corp. Jumped to his death from his Arlington, Virginia apartment balcony August15, 1993. He was investigating the Morgan Guarantee scandal.

20 - Barbara Wise - Commerce Department staffer. Worked closely with Ron Brown and John Huang. Cause of death unknown. Died November 29, 1996. Her bruised, nude body was found locked in her office at the Department of Commerce.

21- Charles Meissner - Assistant Secretary of Commerce who gave John Huang special security clearance, died shortly thereafter in a small plane crash.

22 - Dr. Stanley Heard - Chairman of the National Chiropractic Health Care Advisory Committee, died with his attorney Steve Dickson in a small plane crash. Dr. Heard, in addition to serving on Clinton's advisory council personally treated Clinton's mother, stepfather and brother.

23 - Barry Seal - Dru g running pilot out of Mena Arkansas, death was no accident.

24 - Johnny Lawhorn Jr. - Mechanic, found a check made out to Bill Clinton in the trunk of a car left at his repair shop. He was found dead after his car had hit a utility pole.

25 - Stanley Huggins - Investigated Madison Guarantee. His death was a purported suicide and his report was never released.

26- Hershell Friday - Attorney and Clinton fund raiser died March 1, 1994 when his plane exploded.

27 - Kevin Ives and Don Henry - Known as "The boys on the track" case. Reports say the boys may have stumbled upon the Mena Arkansas airport drug operation. A controversial case, the initial report of death said, due to falling asleep on railroad tracks. Later reports claim the two boys had been slain before being placed on the tracks. Many linked to the case died before their testimony could come before a Grand Jury.

THE FOLLOWING PERSONS HAD INFORMATION ON THE IVES/HENRY CASE:

28 - Keith Coney - Died when his motorcycle slammed into the back of a truck, July 1988.

29 - Keith McMaskle - Died stabbed 113 times, Nov, 1988

30 - Gregory Collins - Died from a gunshot wound January 1989.

31 - Jeff Rhodes - He was shot, mutilated and found burned in a trash dump in April 1989.

33 - James Milan - Found decapitated. However, the Coroner ruled his death was due to "natural causes."

34 - Jordan Kettleson - Was found shot to death in the front seat of his pickup truck in June 1990.

35 - Richard Winters - A suspect in the Ives / Henry deaths. He was killed in a set-up robbery July 1989.

THE FOLLOWING CLINTON BODYGUARDS ARE DEAD:
36 - Major William S. Barkley Jr.
37 - Captain Scott J. Reynolds
38 - Sgt. Brian Hanley </ B>
39 - Sgt. Tim Sabel
40 - Major General William Robertson
41 - Col. William Densberger
42 - Col. Robert Kelly
43 - Spec. Gary Rhodes
44 - Steve Willis
45 - Robert Williams
46 - Conway LeBleu
47 - Todd McKeehan

Had to look up the Henry/Ives case because I had no clue what it is. I found information http://www.idfiles.com/ojvid.htm.

Even if only a quarter of these deaths are accurately connected to the Clintons, that is alot of people mysteriously dying around them. And many when they mysteriously die when they apprently have evidence on the Clintons.

Republican or democrat, you have to agree things are really fishy here.

JohnDoe
09-15-2007, 08:45 AM
This thread needs moving to Conspiracy Theories, don't you think? ;)

btw, have you gone in to each one of these to check them out to see if they have any validity before posting or did you JUST take the word of the original link that provided you with this fodder?

I do admit, the way it is presented, makes one wonder....but I think I am going to have to go in to each one and do some more research before I would ever, ever believe this gossip that you are trying to spread around.

jd

chesswarsnow
09-15-2007, 09:15 AM
Sorry bout that,

1. But the way the Clinton's leave a trail of dead bodies makes me wonder about them even more.
2. Seems the Shoe dude, spelt, Hsu, was just about ready to go the way of the Dino.
3. In my view, *The Great CWN* thinks that The IslamoNeoliberal Party is a Party of Death not unlike the Islamic Peoples everywhere.
4. Just dieing to get out of this world.
5. While its leaders hang on for a natural death.
6. The nobodies, are sent out to die in suicides, while the leaders remain with the cash.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

KarlMarx
09-15-2007, 09:42 AM
This thread needs moving to Conspiracy Theories, don't you think? ;)

btw, have you gone in to each one of these to check them out to see if they have any validity before posting or did you JUST take the word of the original link that provided you with this fotter?

I do admit, the way it is presented, makes one wonder....but I think I am going to have to go in to each one and do some more research before I would ever, ever believe this gossip that you are trying to spread around.

jd
I wonder if you'd exercise the same degree of caution when dealing with DEMOCRAT conspiracy theories? I think I already know the answer.

Of course, you have to wonder something... is Hillary Clinton fit to lead?

The answer is NO... and I'll tell you why.

When it comes to the Norman Hsu affair, she either knew about his criminal past or she didn't.

1. If she knew, then that makes her a accessory to a crime and a criminal, therefore, unfit to lead.

2. If she didn't know, then that means she doesn't know how to run her campaign with honesty or at least doesn't know how to pick people to run her campaign honestly. If she can't run a presidential campaign, she can't be trusted to help run the country.

But hey... she's a Clinton! To her supporters, that is one step removed from God Himself (and to some it's not a step below, it's a step ABOVE).

But for those who support Hillary for President, let me offer you something that you may find useful


http://www.fieldmuseum.org/baseball/photos/eyeglasses.jpg

If you can't see something so obvious as the Clinton Culture of Corruption, you'll need these to cross the street safely!!!!!!!!

Gunny
09-15-2007, 10:59 AM
This thread needs moving to Conspiracy Theories, don't you think? ;)

btw, have you gone in to each one of these to check them out to see if they have any validity before posting or did you JUST take the word of the original link that provided you with this fotter?

I do admit, the way it is presented, makes one wonder....but I think I am going to have to go in to each one and do some more research before I would ever, ever believe this gossip that you are trying to spread around.

jd

That would be "fodder."

Gunny
09-15-2007, 11:02 AM
This thread needs moving to Conspiracy Theories, don't you think? ;)

btw, have you gone in to each one of these to check them out to see if they have any validity before posting or did you JUST take the word of the original link that provided you with this fotter?

I do admit, the way it is presented, makes one wonder....but I think I am going to have to go in to each one and do some more research before I would ever, ever believe this gossip that you are trying to spread around.

jd

For once, I agree. However, I would like to see the same response from you when TM posts her baseless conspiracy crap instead of supporting her.:poke:

JohnDoe
09-15-2007, 11:04 AM
That would be "fodder."
Thanks, I corrected it.

Gunny
09-15-2007, 11:26 AM
Thanks, I corrected it.

On emust ALWAYS keep up with the spelling nazi's.:poke:

Abbey
09-15-2007, 12:33 PM
The most endangered person in the world is the one who chooses Hillary as his running mate. :eek: :terror: :scared: :uhoh:

chesswarsnow
09-15-2007, 04:38 PM
Sorry bout that,

1. But yeah, *What If*, Obama is the Presidential Candidate, and picks Hilary as his *Vice Presidential*, pick.
2. I give Obama 6 months to live.
3. He will suicide out I would imagine.
4. Even leave a note, saying how it was all too enormous for him.
5. Yeah being her running mate would be a for sure suicide, for whoever would chose her.
6. Time to drag out the squirrel.:pee:Hilary.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Gunny
09-16-2007, 09:07 AM
Sorry bout that,

1. But yeah, *What If*, Obama is the Presidential Candidate, and picks Hilary as his *Vice Presidential*, pick.
2. I give Obama 6 months to live.
3. He will suicide out I would imagine.
4. Even leave a note, saying how it was all too enormous for him.
5. Yeah being her running mate would be a for sure suicide, for whoever would chose her.
6. Time to drag out the squirrel.:pee:Hilary.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

You really ought to work on your imagination a bit. A white supremicist will off Obama so the left can bet it to death for a decade via the MSM. Won't even matter if it's little old black lady that drops the hammer ....:laugh2:

KarlMarx
09-16-2007, 09:39 AM
I have to tell you that there is another Clinton casualty... I'm living in it...

Upstate New York has been in an economic depression since the late 1980s. The unemployment is high and the population is low (sounds like a line from a show tune, doesn't it?). When she was running for Senate, Mrs Clinton promised 200,000 jobs for the upstate area. Not that I'm one to believe such a thing, nor do I believe that she's responsible for bringing jobs to the area... but... she promised, and some were stupid enough to believe her enough to elect her to office (and re-elect her, as well). So there you go.

emmett
09-16-2007, 10:35 AM
The fact that everybody remotely close to ANY investigation to funny activity that Hill and Billary were involved is now DEAD, proves nothing.

The fact that noone they know owns a safe airplane is coincidence

All these gunshot wounds, mere chance.

Being a Clinton bodyguard is dangerous work.

1992 and 1993 were just bad years for people who knew the Clinton's. There were alot of murders in America those yars.

And then remember Bill Clinton's good word, "I did not have sexual relations with that woman", I think we should just ask him if he had anything to do with the murders. He'll tell the truth.

truthmatters
09-16-2007, 10:41 AM
4

Gunny
09-16-2007, 11:35 AM
This should all be investigated by a person who doesnt believe the story the Clintons have on these issues.

They should spend millions of dollars and take years if need be.........Oh wait that already happened with Ken Starr and our tax dollars.....


Never Mind.

Could you POSSIBLY be more obvious? If this were Bush you'd have 10 threads going about the coverup.

How simple can one person be?

truthmatters
09-16-2007, 11:45 AM
4

Gunny
09-16-2007, 11:47 AM
Talk to me about it when Democrats have unlimmited money to investigate Bush for arround 6 years.

Last I checked, they've had it for close to a year. Next bullshit excuse?

truthmatters
09-16-2007, 11:50 AM
4

Gunny
09-16-2007, 11:51 AM
In what universe?

They took office in jan 20th and then had to clean up the mess the R congress left and are just barely touching into the things the R congresses left untouched in one one of the most historically unoverseeing congresses in history.

:lol::lame2:

The fact is, they haven't done shit.

jimnyc
09-16-2007, 11:53 AM
The fact is, they haven't done shit.

I beg to differ, I believe they have accomplished having the lowest congressional approval rating in modern history. TM loves polls and thinks they are rock solid so she should love that one!

Gunny
09-16-2007, 11:58 AM
I beg to differ, I believe they have accomplished having the lowest congressional approval rating in modern history. TM loves polls and thinks they are rock solid so she should love that one!

Well yeah, there IS that ...:laugh2:

avatar4321
09-16-2007, 12:11 PM
This should all be investigated by a person who doesnt believe the story the Clintons have on these issues.

They should spend millions of dollars and take years if need be.........Oh wait that already happened with Ken Starr and our tax dollars.....


Never Mind.

Yeah, kind of hard to investigate when the main witnesses end up dead.

You would think that would be obvious.

avatar4321
09-16-2007, 12:12 PM
In what universe?

They took office in jan 20th and then had to clean up the mess the R congress left and are just barely touching into the things the R congresses left untouched in one one of the most historically unoverseeing congresses in history.

And what is this mess that they have to clean up? What despicably evil things has the Republican Congress done?

Nukeman
09-16-2007, 12:30 PM
And what is this mess that they have to clean up? What despicably evil things has the Republican Congress done?

Gee avatar dont you know they should be ashamed of themselves for even being alive and breathing the air of sanctimonius liberals...

Abbey
09-16-2007, 01:44 PM
I beg to differ, I believe they have accomplished having the lowest congressional approval rating in modern history. TM loves polls and thinks they are rock solid so she should love that one!

It's not their fault, D. Their brain physiology simply won't allow them to accept new ideas.

truthmatters
09-16-2007, 02:00 PM
4

Dilloduck
09-16-2007, 02:04 PM
They investigated nothing this President did (which is their job) and they did not pass the budget spending for 2007 which was also their job.

They left all of this undone when they had amajority to push through anything they wanted to push through.

The have gone down in history for the competition for the "Do Nothing Congress" in our countries history.



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16116358/page/2/
As one of its final acts, Congress approved a stopgap measure keeping federal programs running at or slightly below current levels through Feb. 15. President Bush quickly signed it on Saturday.


The action was necessary because lawmakers failed to pass the annual spending bills covering the budget year that began Oct. 1, except those dealing with defense and homeland security.

Rep. David Obey, D-Wis., who will become House Appropriations Committee chairman when the Democrats take over, said the bill was a blatant admission of abject failure by the most useless Congress in modern times.

But the title will soon be lost to the current congess. Records are meant to be broken I guess :laugh2:

emmett
09-16-2007, 02:04 PM
Yeah, kind of hard to investigate when the main witnesses end up dead.

You would think that would be obvious.

I was just goping to say, who are you going to interview?

truthmatters
09-16-2007, 02:12 PM
4

Dilloduck
09-16-2007, 02:16 PM
and your proof of that is?

They have already fixed what the last congress didnt do,are begining the investigations they refused to do also and more so it is not going to happen now is it?

and you have proof that the last congress will go down in history as the congress that did the least?
Get it off you chest, TM. Who are you REALLY mad at ?

truthmatters
09-16-2007, 02:18 PM
4

manu1959
09-16-2007, 02:27 PM
Talk to me about it when Democrats have unlimmited money to investigate Bush for arround 6 years.

all yall have been....found anthing yet...

Dilloduck
09-16-2007, 02:30 PM
I already did

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16116358/page/2/
As one of its final acts, Congress approved a stopgap measure keeping federal programs running at or slightly below current levels through Feb. 15. President Bush quickly signed it on Saturday.


The action was necessary because lawmakers failed to pass the annual spending bills covering the budget year that began Oct. 1, except those dealing with defense and homeland security.

Rep. David Obey, D-Wis., who will become House Appropriations Committee chairman when the Democrats take over, said the bill was a blatant admission of abject failure by the most useless Congress in modern times.

Please stop the silliness----since when is Rep Obey in charge of proclaiming who the most useless congress is ?
Really-----who are you REALLY mad at?

truthmatters
09-16-2007, 02:40 PM
4

manu1959
09-16-2007, 03:52 PM
http://oversight.house.gov/investigations.asp

Investigations take time ,ask Ken Starr who kept asking for more money and more time and found nothing.

They have only just b egun most of the investigations which the 109th congress refused to do.

They had a historically low rate of investigation in the 109th. The 110th is trying to sort out the backlog of investigations the 109th sat on.

excuses... excuses...excuses.....the other guy is worse.....they did it two.....well they failed so it is ok that we failed......something is always someone elses fault in liberal land........

truthmatters
09-16-2007, 04:10 PM
4

manu1959
09-16-2007, 04:25 PM
You my friend are the one who refuses to see anthing that this President does as a mistake.

an is only used before a word that starts with a vowel.....

you don't read very well.......pretty much every thing the US govt. has done for the last 47 years i consider a mistake....there has not been a decent president or senator or congressman in the last 50 years....

April15
09-16-2007, 04:29 PM
That the conservatives believe a story that has been debunked by snopes and refuse to consider their heros are despots proves how lost this nation is.
Conservatives should just leave and go to their dreamland.

truthmatters
09-16-2007, 04:29 PM
4

manu1959
09-16-2007, 04:31 PM
When you talk to me manny you defend them so what else am I to think you believe?

really, when have i defended "them"....and that is Mr. 59 to you

April15
09-16-2007, 04:31 PM
Home --> Politics --> Clintons --> The Clinton Body Count

The Clinton Body Count

Claim: Bill Clinton has been quietly doing away with those who oppose him.

Status: False.

Origins: A new version of a lengthy list of deaths associated with Bill Clinton began circulating on the Internet in August 1998. According to it, there have been close to fifty suspicious deaths of colleagues, advisors and citizens who were about to testify against the Clintons, with the unstated implication that Bill Clinton or his henchmen were behind each untimely
demise.

We shouldn't have to tell anyone not to believe this claptrap, but we will anyway. In a frenzied media climate where the Chief Executive couldn't boff a White House intern without the whole world finding out every niggling detail of each encounter and demanding his removal from office, are we seriously to believe the same man had been having double handfuls of detractors and former friends murdered with impunity?

Don't be swayed by the number of names listed on screeds like this. Any public figure is bound to have a much wider circle of acquaintance than an ordinary citizen would. Moreover, the acquaintance is often one-sided though many of the people enumerated on this list might properly claim to have known Clinton, he wouldn't know or remember having met a great number of them.

"Body count" lists are not a new phenomenon. Lists documenting all the allegedly "suspicious" deaths of persons connected with the assassination of John F. Kennedy have been circulating for decades, and the same techniques used to create and spread the JFK lists have been employed in the Clinton version:

* List every dead person with even the most tenuous of connections to your subject. It doesn't matter how these people died, or how tangential they were to your subject's life. The longer the list, the more impressive it looks and the less likely anyone is to challenge it. By the time readers get to the bottom of the list, they'll be too weary to wonder what could possibly be relevant about the death of Clinton's mother's chiropractor.

* Play word games. Make sure every death is presented as "mysterious." All accidental deaths are to be labelled "suspicious," even though by definition accidents occur when something unexpected goes wrong. Every self-inflicted death discussed must include the phrase "ruled a suicide" to imply just the opposite. When an autopsy contradicts a "mysterious death" theory, dispute it; when none was performed because none was needed, claim that "no autopsy was allowed." Make liberal use of words such as 'allegedly' and 'supposedly' to dismiss facts you can't contradict with hard evidence.

* Make sure every inconsistency or unexplained detail you can dredge up is offered as evidence of a conspiracy, no matter how insignificant or pointless it may be. If an obvious suicide is discovered wearing only one shoe, ignore the physical evidence of self-inflicted death and dwell on the missing shoe. You don't have to establish an alternate theory of the death; just keep harping that the missing shoe "can't be explained."

* If the data doesn't fit your conclusion, ignore it. You don't have to explain why the people who claim to have the most damaging goods on Clinton Gennifer Flowers, Paula Jones, Kathleen Willey, Linda Tripp, Monica Lewinsky, Kenneth Starr are still walking around unscathed while dozens of bit players have been bumped off. It's inconvenient for you, so don't mention it.

* Most importantly, don't let facts and details stand in your way! If you can pass off a death by pneumonia as a "suicide," do it! If a cause of death contradicts your conspiracy theory, claim it was "never determined." If your chronology of events is impossible, who cares? It's not like anybody is going to check up on this stuff . . .

This Clinton "body count" list is not a new phenomenon multiple versions have been circulating for years. New victim names are routinely added and old ones taken off, forming an endless variety of permutations. At this point, there is no one "official" list.

But where did all this craziness start? In 1994, in a letter to congressional leaders, former Rep. William Dannemeyer listed 24 people with some connection to Clinton who had died "under other than natural circumstances" and called for hearings on the matter.

Dannemeyer's list of "suspicious deaths" was largely taken from one compiled by Linda Thompson, an Indianapolis lawyer who in 1993 quit her year-old general practice to run her American Justice Federation, a for-profit group that promotes pro-gun causes and various conspiracy theories through a shortwave radio program, a computer bulletin board, and sales of its newsletter and videos.

Her list, called "The Clinton Body Count: Coincidence or the Kiss of Death?" then contained the names of 34 people she believed died suspiciously and who had ties to the Clinton family. Thompson admitted she had "no direct evidence" of Clinton killing anyone. Indeed, she said the deaths were probably caused by "people trying to control the President" but refused to say who they were. Thompson said her allegations of murder "seem groundless only because the mainstream media haven't done enough digging."

Ah, but they had. If not before she put her list together, at least afterwards. Anyone who continues to state the mainstream media has given these claims short shrift is being disingenuous.

Since 1994, various respected news outlets have been confronted with versions of the "Clinton Body Count" list, run their own investigations of a few of the claims, and found nothing to substantiate what they looked into. Those investigations would culminate in yet another story about an oddball conspiracy rumor.

But conspiracy theories don't die that easily. These "body count" lists and the many specious claims contained therein continue to circulate in cyberspace and beyond: yesterday's newspaper articles are forgotten with the next day's delivery, but e-mail lives forever.

The 2007 "Clinton Body Count" list was headed with this entry:
James McDougal - Clinton's convicted Whitewater partner died of an apparent heart attack, while in solitary confinement. He was a key witness in Ken Starr's investigation.
James McDougal, a key witness for Whitewater prosecutors when the investigation centered on an Arkansas land deal in which the president and McDougal were involved, had a pre-existing heart condition and died of a heart attack on 8 March 1998 while in solitary confinement at the Federal Medical Center prison in Fort Worth. The ailing McDougal had been placed in solitary as punishment for failing to provide a urine sample for a drug test. On the day before his death and while still in his regular cell (where he had access to his heart medications), he had complained of dizziness, and while being processed for isolation he threw up. However, once in isolation, he did not ask for his medicines and appeared to guards "alert, well-oriented and absent any visible signs of distress" right up until his death. An investigation into the circumstances of his demise did not find evidence of foul play.

The McDougal entry was not part of the "Clinton Body Count" list as it circulated in 1998. This is what we found when we looked into those entries:
1. Mary Mohane - former White House intern gunned down in a coffee shop. Nothing was taken. It was suspected that she was about to testify about sexual harassment at the White House.
Former White House intern Mary Caitrin Mahoney, 25, manager of a Georgetown Starbucks, was killed along with two co-workers (Emory Allen Evans, 25 and Aaron David Goodrich, 18) on 6 July 1997 during a robbery of the shop. In March 1999 Carl Derek Havord Cooper (29) of Washington was arrested and charged with these murders.

Yes, it is unusual that three employees were killed in the course of a robbery during which nothing was taken. According to Cooper's 26 April 2000 guilty plea (he received life with no hope of parole), he went to the Starbucks to rob the place, figuring the receipts from the July 4 weekend would make for a fat take. He came in after closing, waved a .38, and ordered all three Starbucks employees into the back room. Once there, Mahoney made a run for it after Cooper fired a warning shot into the ceiling. She was ordered back to the room, but then went for the gun. Cooper shot her, then afterwards shot the other two employees. He left empty-handed, afraid the shots had attracted police attention. As regrettable as these three deaths were, this was nothing but a case of a robbery gone wrong.

And, right away, we have come to the first big lie of the "Clinton Body Count" list: Any unexplained death can automatically be attributed to President Clinton by inventing a connection between him and the victim. Mary Mahoney did once work as an intern at the White House, but so have hundreds of other people who are all still alive. There is no credible reason why, of all the interns who have served in the Clinton White House, Mahoney alone would be the target of a Clinton-directed killing. (Contrary to public perception, very few interns work in the West Wing of the White House or have any contact with the President. The closest most interns get to the chief executive is a brief handshake or a group photo.)

The putative reason offered for Mahoney's slaying that she was about to testify about sexual harrassment in the White House was a lie. This absurd justification apparently sprang from a hint dropped by Mike Isikoff of Newsweek just before the Monica Lewinsky scandal broke that a "former White House staffer" with the initial "M" was about to talk about her affair with Clinton. We all know now, of course, that the "staffer" referred to was Monica Lewinsky, not Mary Mahoney. The conspiracy buffs maintained that White House hit men rushed out, willy-nilly, and gunned down the first female ex-intern they could find whose name began with "M."
2. Vincent Foster - former White House Counsel, found dead of a gunshot wound to the head and ruled a suicide. He had significant knowledge of the Clintons' financial affairs and was a business partner with Hillary. If the Clintons are guilty of the crimes they are accused of by Larry, Vincent Foster would have detailed knowledge of those crimes.
This laundry list of deaths always refers to someone taking his life as "ruled a suicide," thus implying another conclusion of equal likelihood was capriciously dismissed by someone who had the power to do so. From here on, read "ruled a suicide" as "an investigation was carried out, arriving at this as the only reasonable conclusion."

White House deputy counsel Vince Foster committed suicide on the night of 20 July 1993 by shooting himself once in the head, a day after he contacted his doctor about his depression. A note in the form of a draft resignation letter was found in the bottom of his briefcase a week after his death. (Note that this letter was not, as is often claimed, a "suicide note." It was Foster's outline for a letter of resignation.) Foster cited negative Wall Street Journal editorials about him. He was also upset about the much-criticized role of the counsel's office in the controversial firing of seven White House travel office workers.

On 10 October 1997, special prosecutor Kenneth Starr released his report on the investigation into Foster's death, the third such investigation (after ones conducted by the coroner and Starr's predecessor, Robert B. Fiske) of the matter. The 114-page summary of a three-year investigation concluded that Foster shot himself with the pistol discovered in his right hand. There was no sign of a struggle, nor any evidence he'd been drugged or intoxicated or that his body had been moved.

If Foster had been murdered or if unanswered questions about his death remained, Starr would have been the last person to want to conclude the investigation prematurely. Or are we to believe Starr is part of the cover up, too? And if we buy into the conspiracy theory, what are we expected to believe? That a group of professional killers capable of carrying out dozens of murders all over the world shot Vince Foster, then clumsily dumped him in a park (after he had bled out), planted a gun he didn't own in his hand (without bothering to press his fingerprints onto it), amateurishly forged a suicide note (in several different handwritings), then expected the nation would believe it was suicide?
3. C. Victor Raiser, II - former National Finance Co-Chairman of Clinton for President, and Montgomery Raiser, his son. Both died in a suspicious private plane crash in Alaska. No cause determined. Raiser was considered to be a major player on the Clinton team.
All plane crashes are "suspicious," because airplanes are supposed to stay in the air, and when they don't it's because something went terribly wrong. Pilot error and mechanical failure are by far the most common causes underlying any crash. The National Transportation Safety Board investigates every downed plane in the U.S., and though they might not always pin down the exact cause of a crash, they're generally pretty good about ruling out the use of explosives or mechanical tampering. If the NTSB doesn't find evidence of tampering or explosives, that's not what downed the plane, and we're left with pilot error and mechanical failure as our choices.

Raiser, his son, and three others died in a plane crash in Alaska on 30 July 1992 during a fishing trip. The pilot and another passenger survived and were hospitalized with severe burns. While the "body count" list claims "no cause determined," the NTSB says otherwise: pilot error in a small plane flying in mountainous terrain during low visibility conditions led to the crash.

See what the NTSB had to say about this accident.
4. Paul Tully - DNC Political Director, was found dead in a Little Rock hotel room. No cause was ever determined and no autopsy was allowed. Tully was a key member of the damage control squad and came up with some of the Clinton strategies.
Paul Tully died on 24 September 1992. Problem is, there wasn't anything the least bit unusual about his death, so whoever cooked up this list had to lie and claim that "no cause was ever determined" and "no autopsy was allowed." However, an autopsy was performed, and Tully's cause of death was determined: a massive heart attack. (Not a surprising demise, since Tully was extremely overweight, a heavy drinker, and a chain smoker.) According to Steve Nawojczyk, the Pulaski County coroner, "An autopsy by the Arkansas medical examiner's office discovered advanced coronary artery disease." He added that investigators found no evidence of external trauma to the body.

Note again that the conspiracy buffs offer no putative reason for Tully's "killing," yet would have us believe that Clinton ordered his chief strategist rubbed out while the most important election of his career was still over a month away.
5. Ed Willey - Clinton fund raiser. Found in the woods in Virginia with a gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide.
Ed Willey was a former Virginia state senator and a lawyer; his wife Kathleen was active in Democratic state politics, worked as a volunteer (including some fund-raising efforts) on behalf of the Clinton campaign in Virginia in 1992, and later worked as a volunteer in the White House Social Office. Ed Willey's death was as clear cut a case of suicide as one is likely to find. Willey was a desperate, unstable man who (along with his wife) spent money lavishly, stole $275,000 of a client's money, and was about half a million dollars in debt to the IRS. He took his own life on 29 November 1993, leaving behind a suicide note found by his wife: "Saying I'm sorry doesn't begin to explain. I hope one day you will forgive me."

At the same time as Willey was killing himself, his wife was allegedly being groped by Clinton. She'd gone to the Chief Executive looking for a job to help her family out of its financial crisis and found herself fending off Clinton's advances. Clinton admits to the meeting but denies her version of what went on during it. Kathleen Willey testified in Paula Jones' harrassment suit against Clinton, but she's never claimed that Clinton had her husband killed.
6. Hershell Friday - Clinton fund-raiser. His plane exploded.
Herschel Friday, an Arkansas lawyer who had been on the Clinton campaign finance committee, died in a airplane accident on 1 March 1994. His plane did not "explode"; the elderly (73-year-old) Friday, at the controls, crashed it during an attempted landing on a poorly-lighted private airfield at dusk on a dark and drizzly day.

See what the NTSB had to say about this accident.
7. Jerry Parks - former security team member for Governor Clinton. Prior to his death he had compiled an extensive file on Clinton's activities. His family had reported being followed and his home broken into just before being gunned down at a deserted intersection.
On 26 September 1993, Luther (Jerry) Parks was hit with ten bullets from a 9-mm semiautomatic handgun as he left a Mexican restaurant at the edge of Little Rock. His murder remains unsolved.

Parks' security company guarded Clinton's campaign headquarters in 1992. Parks' son, Gary, asserts in Circle of Power and The Clinton Chronicles (both video products of Linda Thompson's American Justice Federation) that his father collected a secret file of Clinton's indiscretions, and that his father was using the file to try to blackmail the Clinton campaign. (He also claims that Vince Foster knew of the file's existence.) Despite these allegations, the younger Parks has failed to produce the mysterious file, and Clyde Steelman, the homicide sergeant with the Little Rock police force, dismissed Gary Parks' theories of his father's death as "unsubstantiated, nothing to grasp." A far more likely suspect in the murder is Jerry Parks' former partner, with whom Parks had quarreled bitterly.
8. John Wilson - former Washington D.C. council member. Had ties to Whitewater. Died of a very suspicious hanging suicide.
John Wilson was the chairman of the District of Columbia Council, and his suicide was far from "very suspicious": Wilson had a long history of depression, was wrestling with marital problems, and had tried to kill himself on at least four other occasions. He finally succeeded on 19 May 1993. Upon his death, Wilson's wife said, "[His] depression was an inherited problem; that he was able to contribute so much over the years in the face of his disability was a miracle." Police said that he did not leave a note and that there were no signs of foul play.

Wilson had absolutely nothing in common with Clinton other than that they worked in the same city (i.e., Washington, D.C.). The claim that Wilson had anything to do with Whitewater is laughable.
9. Kathy Ferguson - former wife of Arkansas State Trooper Danny Ferguson, the co-defendant with Bill Clinton in the Paula Jones lawsuit. Found dead in her living room of a gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide. Interestingly, her packed suitcases seemed to indicate she was about to go somewhere.
Kathy Ferguson killed herself with a gunshot to the right temple on 11 May 1994 at the home of her boyfriend, Bill Shelton. Their relationship had fallen on hard times, with each accusing the other of having been unfaithful. Ferguson left behind a suicide note that read: "I can't stay here any longer. Things will never be the same for us. I can't take that." Close by was another note from Shelton questioning her relationship with another man, which Ferguson's daughter said her mother had been upset over.

There was no mention of packed suitcases in any of the reports about Ferguson's death examined so far, but even if there were, it wouldn't be the least bit surprising is it so unusual that a woman might be thinking of moving out of the house of a boyfriend who quarreled with her and challenged her fidelity?
10. Bill Shelton - Arkansas state trooper and fiance of Kathy Ferguson. Allegedly committed suicide by shooting himself at her grave.
Shelton killed himself over Kathy Ferguson's grave on 12 June 1994. A suicide note was found beside his body. Just a month earlier he had quarreled with his girlfriend, accused her of cheating on him, and driven her to suicide. There's nothing mysterious about his death or his reasons for taking his life. And if the idea that the ex-wife of an Arkansas state trooper was a Clinton "connection" weren't absurd enough, we're now offered the boyfriend of an ex-wife of an Arkansas state trooper.
11. Gandy Baugh - attorney for Dan Lasater in a financial misconduct case. Supposedly jumped out the window of a tall building to commit suicide.
Gandy Baugh died on 8 January 1994 at home. Although causes weren't specified, it's safe to assume people who jump out of tall buildings either die on the spot or in the hospital, not at home.
12. Dr. Donald Rogers - dentist. Killed in a suspicious plane crash on his way to an interview with reporter Ambrose Evans-Pritchard to reveal information about Clinton.
On 3 March 1994, the Cessna carrying a pilot, Donald Rogers, and two other passengers crashed. The pilot had earlier radioed in that he was experiencing electrical trouble and then lost radio contact. The NTSB investigation after the crash revealed that the plane's left generator severely overheated and shut down, leaving the plane without electrical systems. The plane went down far off its planned route, and the pilot was good and lost at the time of the crash.

See what the NTSB had to say about this accident.
13. Stanley Huggins - lawyer investigating Madison Guaranty. Suicide. His extensive report has never been released.
How anyone can confuse dying of pneumonia with suicide is beyond me. Huggins died on 23 June 1994. According Dr. Richard Callery, Delaware's top medical examiner, viral myocarditis and bronchial pneumonia killed Huggins. Lt. Joel Ivory of the University of Delaware police said his exhaustive investigation of Huggins's death turned up "no sign at all of foul play."
14. Florence Martin - Accountant for the CIA and had information on the Barry Seal case. Three gunshot wounds to the head.
On 23 October 1994, 69-year-old Florence Martin of Mabelle, Texas (40 miles from Wichita Falls) was murdered in her home by three gunshots to the head through a pillow. She wasn't an accountant for the CIA, though: She worked the graveyard shift at a convenience store in nearby Seymour and had lived in that area for decades. The murder is still unsolved.
15. Suzane Coleman - reportedly had an affair with Clinton. Was seven months pregnant at the time she was found dead of a gun shot wound to the back of the head, ruled suicide.
At the time of Susan Coleman's suicide, Bill Clinton was her law professor. In 1992 an overzealous supporter of George Bush hired investigators to probe this girl's 1977 suicide. They found no evidence that the two had even had an affair. It was an old rumor and a baseless one, and even a determined attempt at muckraking turned up nothing to substantiate it.
16. Paula Grober - Clinton's interpreter for the deaf. Traveled with Clinton from 1978 until her death in 1992 in a one-car accident. There were no witnesses.
The accident took place during the afternoon of 7 December 1992. Paula Gober's car overturned at a curve in the highway, throwing her 33 feet from the vehicle. No one witnessed the accident.
17. Paul Wilcher - attorney investigating corruption. He had investigated federal elections, drug and gun smuggling through Mena, the Waco incident, and had just delivered a lengthy report to Janet Reno. He died in his home of unknown causes.
Wilcher's partially decomposed body was found seated on the toilet in his Washington D.C. home on 22 June 1993. His death was attributed to natural causes. According to The Washington Times, "[H]e was investigating the theory of an 'October Surprise' conspiracy during the 1980 federal election campaign. He had been interviewing an inmate who claimed to have piloted George Bush to Paris so he could secretly seek to delay the release of 52 American hostages in Iran." President Clinton, just a year into his first term, would hardly be likely to give up a key political advantage by bumping off someone who was supposedly about to dig up some major dirt on the Republican party
18. Jon Parnell Walker - RTC investigator who mysteriously fell to his death from an apartment balcony.
I can find nothing about this man, not a report of his death or of his being an Resolution Trust Corporation investigator. Various lists state this tragedy happened on 15 August 1993 at the Lincoln Towers in Arlington, Virginia, but nothing shows up in the newspapers about it.
19. Ron Brown - former DNS Chairman, Commerce Secretary. Reported to have died in a plane crash, but new evidence reveals he may have been shot in the head. He was being investigated by a special investigator and was about to be indicted with 54 others. He spoke publicly of his willingness to "make a deal" with the prosecutors to save himself a few days before the fatal trip. He was not supposed to be on the flight but was asked to go at the last minute. (This count does not include the other business leaders and other passengers who died on this government-sponsored trade mission.)
What "new evidence"? Ron Brown and 34 others were killed in a plane crash in Croatia on 3 April 1996. The plane slammed into a mountain while on landing approach. There were no survivors.

A lot has been made of an x-ray of Brown's skull in which what looks like a round entry wound appears. Closer examination of Brown's skull by military officials revealed no bullet, no bone fragments, no metal fragments and, even more telling, no exit wound.

Simply imagining a scenario under which Ron Brown could have been shot takes one into the realm of the absurd. Was he shot in the head during the flight, in full view of thirty-four other witnesses? (If so, how did the shooters get off the plane?) Did the killers shoot him before the flight, then bundle his body into a seat (just like Weekend at Bernie's) and hope nobody noticed the gaping hole in his head? Or did Croatian commandos fortuitously appear on the scene to scale a mountain and pump a bullet into the head of an already-dead plane crash victim?

See what the Air Force had to say about this crash.
20. Barbara Wise - Commerce Department secretary. Worked with Ron Brown and John Huang and had extensive knowledge of their activities. Found dead in her locked office the day after Thanksgiving. It was ruled a suicide. Interestingly, she was found partially clothed, bruised, and in a pool of blood.
There was no pool of blood, and Barbara Wise's death was never ruled a suicide by anyone. She was discovered in her Commerce Department office on 29 November 1996 after last being seen alive on 27 November 1996, the day before Thanksgiving. A thorough investigation uncovered no evidence of foul play or suicide. Wise had a history of frequent and severe health problems, including liver ailments. Her death was attributed to natural causes.
21. Charles Meissner - Assistant Secretary of Commerce. John Huang was given a special security clearance by Meissner. Shortly thereafter, he died in the crash of a small plane.
Charles Meissner died in the same plane crash that took the life of Ron Brown, the one in Croatia on 3 April 1996. Fourteen Commerce Department staffers died in that crash, Meissner and Brown among them.

We're now entering an long segment of the list wherein a number of deaths are tied to those of Henry and Ives, who are supposedly linked to Clinton. All of this linkage is one big canard. Henry and Ives had nothing to do with Clinton they were two young men who foolishly ripped off drugs from a dealer and were beaten to death in revenge. With no link between Clinton and Henry or Ives, the following eight entries collapse like a house of cards.
22 & 23. Kevin Ives and Don Henry - seventeen-year-old boys who apparently saw something related to drugs in Mena by accident late at night. Officially ruled an accidental death on the train tracks, but evidence shows they died before being placed on the tracks - one of a crushed skull and the other of a knife wound in the back.
Henry and Ives were run over by a train on 23 Aug 1987. Dr. Fahmy Malak, Arkansas' former state medical examiner, ruling the deaths accidental, said the teens fell asleep on the tracks after smoking marijuana. A 1988 Saline County grand jury determined the boys were murdered and their bodies afterwards laid on the tracks, but no other conclusions were reached and no indictments were returned. The FBI is still investigating the deaths.

A number of Malak's determinations had been challenged and overturned during his career. He certainly wasn't always a conscientious medical examiner, and his Ives and Henry rulings were only two of many such botchings.

Getting back to the real meat of who killed the boys, nothing ties Ives and Henry to Clinton. Though various of these lists will claim the boys accidentally stumbled onto a "protected" drug drop and were killed for it, there's no reason to believe even that. In a 25 May 1990 hearing before U.S. Magistrate Henry Jones Jr., Katherine Brightop said her ex-boyfriend Paul William Criswell told her he and three other men were involved in the teenagers' deaths. Brightop said Criswell told her the boys tried to steal cocaine from Callaway's home and they were caught and beaten to death before their bodies were placed on the tracks.
24. Keith Koney - had information on the Ives and Henry deaths. Died in a motorcycle accident with reports of a high-speed car chased involved.
19-year-old Keith Coney died on 17 May 1988 when the motorcycle he was driving struck the back of a tractor-trailer. He was riding a motorcycle he'd stolen the day before. There were no reports of a high-speed car chase.
25. Keith McKaskle - had information on the Ives and Henry deaths. Stabbed to death.
In August 1989, Ronald Shane Smith was sentenced to ten years for the 10 November 1988 murder of Keith McKaskle. McKaskle had earlier expressed fears for his life, linking them to his knowing something about "the railroad track thing". Smith may have been paid to kill McKaskle, as a prison inmate said he had been approached and offered $4,000 to kill McKaskle himself.
26. Gregory Collins - had information on the Ives and Henry deaths. Gunshot wound to the head.
Greg Collins (25) of Bryant, Arkansas, was found shot in woods near Rosston on 2 December 1989. If he truly knew something about drug-related murders, that's reason enough for him to have been killed.
27. Jeff Rhodes - had information on the Ives and Henry and McKaskle deaths. Tortured, mutilated, shot, body burned in a dumpster.
In July 1989 Frank Pilcher was arrested for the April 1989 murder of Jeffrey Rhodes. Rhodes had earlier told his father he feared for his life because he'd witnessed a narcotics transaction.

Rhodes was last seen alive on April 3. His body was discovered in a dumpster on April 19. He'd been shot twice in the head and his body was badly burned. The body was likely burned in an effort to destroy forensic evidence that would led investigators to the murderer.
28. James Milam - had information on the Ives and Henry deaths. He was decapitated. The coroner ruled death due to natural causes.
This is my favorite entry. Remember that Arkansas medical examiner, the one I said wasn't always the most conscientious investigator on God's green earth? Yep, we're about to see him again. Fahmy Malak listed James Milam's cause of death as a perforated ulcer, adding that Milam's small dog afterwards ate the dead man's head, accounting for Milam's headless condition.

Milam's daughter-in-law insists Milam was murdered. She claims Malak showed her photographs of the headless corpse, and the neck was cut clean. The Milam family has not attempted to legally challenge the ruling because of the expense, so we'll never know which way the cat jumps, ulcer or murder.

Whatever killed him, Milam died three months before the Ives and Henry murders. What are we supposed to believe here, that Clinton conspirators knocked off someone who "had information on the Ives and Henry deaths" three months Ives and Henry actually died? Wow, talk about a preemptive strike!
29. Jordan Kettleson - had information on the Ives and Henry deaths. Found shot in the front seat of his pick up truck.
21-year-old Jordan Ketelsen died on 25 June 1990.
30. Dr. Stanley Heard - Chair, National Chiropractic Health Care Advisory Committee. He personally treated Clinton's mother, stepfather, and brother. His personal small plane developed problems so he rented another. Fire broke out in flight and he crashed.
Stanley Heard and Stephen Dickson died on 10 September 1993, when their Piper Turbo Lance II caught fire shortly after takeoff from Dulles airport and crashed. They'd attended a briefing that morning on the Clinton administration's health care plan. Dickson's plane had developed mechanical problems on the way to Washington the week before, so Dickson and Heard rented the Cherokee in St. Louis to make the trip. They rented a badly maintained plane, and it cost them their lives.

Here is what the NTSB had to say about this crash.

I've found nothing on the National Chiropractic Health Care Advisory that Heard supposedly chaired.
31. Steve Dickson - attorney for Heard. Died in same plane crash.
Dickson attended the same briefing Heard did. I do not know if he was there as Heard's lawyer or for independent reasons.
32. John Hillier - video journalist and investigator. He helped to produce the documentaries "Circle of Power," and "The Clinton Chronicles." He mysteriously died in a dentist's chair for no apparent reason.
Again, I can find no record of this man's death or of his work. There have been a few dental chair deaths, but I find nothing on his.
33. Maj. Gen. William Robertson
34. Col. William Densberger
35. Col. Robert Kelly
36. Spec. Gary Rhodes
37. Steve Willis
38. Robert Williams
39. Conway LeBleu
40. Todd McKeehan
41. Sgt. Brian Haney
42. Sgt. Tim Sabel
43. Maj.William Barkley
44. Capt. Scott Reynolds
* all former Clinton bodyguards who are dead.
Steve Willis, Robert Williams, Todd McKeehan, and Conway LeBleu were Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms agents killed during the Waco confrontation on 28 February 1993.

Brian Haney, Timothy Sabel, William Barkley, and Scott Reynolds died in a helicopter crash on 19 May 1993. These four were members of Marine Helicopter Squadron One, the unit responsible for transporting the President. They died when the Blackhawk helicopter they had taken out for a maintenance-evaluation flight crashed. There was no evidence of sabotage. Clinton had set foot in the aircraft on only one occasion, two months earlier, when he traveled from the White House to the USS Theodore Roosevelt.

Jarrett Robertson, William Densberger, Robert Kelly, and Gary Rhodes died in a helicopter crash in Wiesbaden, Germany on 23 February 1993.
45. Gary Johnson - former attorney for Larry Nichols, severely beaten and left for dead.
Again, I can find nothing on this incident or even this man's life.
46. Dennis Patrick - had millions of dollars laundered through his account at Lasater & Co. without his knowledge. There have been several attempts on his life, all unsuccessful.
It's hard to know what to say about this one. Though I find credible reference to Patrick's life having been in danger a few times, I'm unable to trace back to news reports on the original incidents. Without seeing them, I'm not confident in stating an opinion on whether or not those attempts took place.

Patrick was a client of Lasater, albeit a reluctant one. He was asked to open an account there, he refused, one was opened for him anyway, and he was handed "profits" from one transaction for his part in allowing whatever was going on to take place. Again, someone who got involved with drug dealers ended up in trouble. In this case, an otherwise upstanding man took money he knew to be dirty to keep quiet about what his account was being used for. If he's now being chased by drug dealers who don't want the details of the transactions to come to light, is that all that surprising?
47. L.J. Davis - reporter. While investigating the Clinton scandals he was attacked in his hotel room and his notes were taken. He survived.
Davis said he had awakened in his hotel room with a big bump on his head. He soon admitted having drunk at least four martinis that night. No pages were missing from his notebook, and he had no idea how he ended up on the floor. "I certainly wasn't about to conclude that somebody cracked me on the head," Davis said at the time.
48. Larry Nichols - former marketing director of ADFA. Responsible for bringing forth more evidence and witnesses on Clinton corruption than any other source. Very public about his claims against Clinton. He has suffered six beatings, arrest on trumped up charges, and a near arrest.
In 1988 Larry Nichols, then a marketing director for the Arkansas Development Finance Authority, was fired from his job for making hundreds of calls to the Nicaraguan contras from his office. In 1990 he filed a lawsuit against Clinton claiming the then-Governor of Arkansas and others made him the scapegoat in a misappropriation-of-funds charge that cost him his job. In that suit he also tossed in claims of extramarital affairs, naming five women Clinton was supposed to have chased across the sheets. Nichols withdrew his lawsuit in 1992 and issued a round of apologies to everyone involved. He admitted what he'd said had been an attempt to destroy the Governor by innuendo.

Nichols has since changed his tune yet again, and has returned to making allegations against Clinton, always being careful to stop just short of asserting Clinton is involved in various murders and other crimes Nichols points to as "suspicious."

Since his dismissal from the AFDA, Nichols has made a career of peddling anti-Clinton books and tapes to the lunatic fringe. Take anything claimed about or by this man with a huge grain of salt.
Now, ask yourself: how many people with whom you were acquainted have died mysteriously or violently in the past 10 years.
The bottom line on this piece of e-lore? It's a badly worked laundry list dressed up to appear significant. The promised damning connections to the Chief Executive are missing, with innuendo misinformation offered up in their place. Nothing ties Clinton to any of these deaths, something this list (and others of its ilk) conveniently glosses over. What evidence is offered that would compel a rational person to believe there was Clinton involvement in any of these deaths?

Clinton was acquainted with some people who died that's about all one can make of this list. Indeed, that's far more than can be made of a number of the entries, specifically, that of Ives and Henry and all those supposedly tied to theirs.

Though it's clear from digging through numerous newspaper articles there is a thriving and dangerous drug culture in Little Rock, how or why this should be connected to Bill Clinton is left unanswered. Regrettably, Little Rock is akin to numerous other large cities: it has its share of drug dealers, murders, and violence. It also has one very famous citizen. And that's about as much of a connection as anyone can make.

Whereas a typical private citizen has a much smaller circle of acquaintance, those in public office come into contact with a great many people over the course of their careers. It is therefore not unusual to find at least a few accidental deaths, homicides, and suicides among any politician's list of contacts. (For example, a "body count" list exists for George Bush.)

A number of suicides are enumerated in this list. Suicide is far from an unusual mode of demise. It claims 32,000 lives in the U.S. every year, and it's the 9th leading cause of death. It is indeed a rare person who does not know someone who died by his own hand.

Deaths by airplane crash account for a number of entries on the list. Again, this is not all that surprising. Every year many small planes crash in the United States, and some of those crashes result in fatalities. As mentioned above, the National Transportation Safety Board investigates every one of them, to determine both the cause of the accident as well as to gather data that will help prevent future tragedies. The agency does a thorough job of looking into the circumstances surrounding each downed plane. To describe any of the plane crash deaths on this list as "suspicious" is to suggest the NTSB was part of a coverup.

There have been a couple of unsolved murders (Jerry Parks, Kevin Ives, and Don Henry), but there have also been deaths by natural causes that have been tossed into the mix willy-nilly simply to boost the body count. (Like I said earlier, how can anyone claim a death by pneumonia was a suicide?) All the best lies make sure to mix a bit of truth in with them, and the few genuinely unsolved murders work to cloak the many less credible claims in an aura of plausibility. Don't be overly bemused by them study each entry on its own merits.

One final question to ask yourself before falling for any Clinton Body Count list: If the Chief Executive was having people bumped off left, right, and center, why aren't Monica Lewinsky and Linda Tripp on this list? At the time of Mary Mahoney's death a death this list hints was ordered by Clinton neither Tripp nor Lewinsky were the high-profile household names they now are; they were complete unknowns. It would be another six months before information about them would explode into the news. If the President were in the habit of having those dangerous to his presidency put in the ground, why didn't he order these deaths?

Barbara "let's get back to Clinton's bawdy count, okay?" Mikkelson

Last updated: 5 February 2007

The URL for this page is http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/bodycount.asp

Urban Legends Reference Pages 1995-2007
by Barbara and David P. Mikkelson
This material may not be reproduced without permission.
Sources Sources:

Black, Chris. "Paul Tully, at 48; Key Strategist for Clinton, the Democratic Party"
The Boston Globe. 25 September 1992 (p. 75).

Ferguson, Greg and David Bowermastsues. "Attacks Against President Take Sinister Turn."
Rocky Mountain News. 12 August 1994 (p. A40).

Horowitz, Sari and John W. Fountain. "Coffee Shop a Fateful Stop on Three Career Paths."
The Washington Post. 13 July 1997 (p. A1).

McKelway, Deroy. "Life Often Lonely Fight for Willey."
The Richmond Times Dispatch. 22 March 1998 (p. A1).

Miller, Bill. "Cooper Sentenced to Life for Starbucks Slayings."
The Washington Post. 26 April 2000 (p. B1).

Murdock, Deroy. "Whitewater: Are Deaths, Beatings and Break-Ins Linked to Arkansas S&L Scandal?"
The Dallas Morning News. 3 April 1994 (p. J6).

Murray, Frank. "Conspiracy Theory Widens to Murder in Whitewater Case."
The [London] Times. 14 March 1994 (Overseas News).

Piore, Adam. "Ex-Interns from N.J. Say President Is Seldom Seen."
The [Bergen County] Record. 29 January 1998.

Walker, Martin. "Conspiracy Theorists Let Imagination Run Riot Over Whitewater Scandal."
The Guardian. 24 March 1994 (p. 16).

Wynar, Roahn. "Clinton Body Count Death List a Hoax."
Daily Texan. 21 October 1998.

Associated Press. "Report: McDougal Never Seen By Doctors Just Before Prison Death."
13 September 1998.

The New York Times. "Victor Raiser, 52, Financial Aide In Clinton Presidential Campaign."
2 August 1992 (p. 46).

manu1959
09-16-2007, 04:32 PM
That the conservatives believe a story that has been debunked by snopes and refuse to consider their heros are despots proves how lost this nation is.
Conservatives should just leave and go to their dreamland.

so none of these people are dead?!....we need to tell their familys....they will be thrilled....

Dilloduck
09-16-2007, 04:34 PM
That the conservatives believe a story that has been debunked by snopes and refuse to consider their heros are despots proves how lost this nation is.
Conservatives should just leave and go to their dreamland.

Please tell me that you think the right are the only ones' here who have been debunked yet continue to plow ahead with bad info.

truthmatters
09-16-2007, 04:38 PM
4

April15
09-16-2007, 04:40 PM
Please tell me that you think the right are the only ones' here who have been debunked yet continue to plow ahead with bad info.I wish I could. With the information age came a little known side effect, instant lie gratification. I am surprised no one is arguing about the challenger disaster saying it was a left right plot to end the space program.

avatar4321
09-16-2007, 04:41 PM
They investigated nothing this President did (which is their job) and they did not pass the budget spending for 2007 which was also their job.

They left all of this undone when they had amajority to push through anything they wanted to push through.

The have gone down in history for the competition for the "Do Nothing Congress" in our countries history.


They have nothing to investigate. The President hasnt done anything wrong. Why on earth do you expect Congress to investigate when there is nothing to investigate?

Investigation for investigations sake would be doing nothing.

As for the budget, who cares? one budget out of 12. 6 years of which have been the first balanced budgets in decades.

Apparently, you dont understand how Congress works if you think you can just push through things when youve got minimal control of the Senate. And a bunch of traitors who let the opposing party illegally filibuster important things.

April15
09-16-2007, 04:42 PM
so none of these people are dead?!....we need to tell their familys....they will be thrilled....Dieing is the end result of birth! Come to grips with mortality! In case you haven't noticed no body lives forever.

manu1959
09-16-2007, 04:43 PM
Dear Mr 59 ,

Everywhere.

go look at your own posts in every thread we have been in together.

tell you what....go find me a post where i defened the US govt. and say they do a good job....

you assume since i bash you and other loons on this board that i support bush....

i will make this real easy ..... i could add both your IQs together and have a real good golf score .....

avatar4321
09-16-2007, 04:44 PM
http://oversight.house.gov/investigations.asp

Investigations take time ,ask Ken Starr who kept asking for more money and more time and found nothing.

They have only just b egun most of the investigations which the 109th congress refused to do.

They had a historically low rate of investigation in the 109th. The 110th is trying to sort out the backlog of investigations the 109th sat on.

First, Ken Starr didnt find "nothing." He found enough evidence to impeach the President and disbar him. If he had regular trial proceedings rather than Senate proceedings, he would have been convicted and served jail time for obstruction, perjury etc.

Second, If witnesses werent dying under mysterious circumstances and oh yeah "committing suicide" before they were planning to give testimony against the Clintons, you can be assured that President Clinton would be in jail right now.

People dont mysteriously die and commit suicide to protect politicians.

April15
09-16-2007, 04:47 PM
First, Ken Starr didnt find "nothing." He found enough evidence to impeach the President and disbar him. If he had regular trial proceedings rather than Senate proceedings, he would have been convicted and served jail time for obstruction, perjury etc.

Second, If witnesses werent dying under mysterious circumstances and oh yeah "committing suicide" before they were planning to give testimony against the Clintons, you can be assured that President Clinton would be in jail right now.

People dont mysteriously die and commit suicide to protect politicians.Ken starr found nothing! His purpose was to investigate the White water finances. Why he got so side tracked, Ha ha, is another whole issue.

avatar4321
09-16-2007, 04:49 PM
Ken starr found nothing! His purpose was to investigate the White water finances. Why he got so side tracked, Ha ha, is another whole issue.

The reason why he got so side tracked is because witnesses kept dying under mysterious circumstances.

Kathianne
09-16-2007, 04:54 PM
Those dying and those lying. It was problematic. Of course, there was no connection. They would say the same if 9/11 critics in their 40's and 50's were 'dying off', right?

truthmatters
09-16-2007, 04:55 PM
4

manu1959
09-16-2007, 05:06 PM
Which of the peopel on his witness list died?

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/03/08/mcdougal.update/

JohnDoe
09-16-2007, 05:34 PM
First, Ken Starr didnt find "nothing." He found enough evidence to impeach the President and disbar him. If he had regular trial proceedings rather than Senate proceedings, he would have been convicted and served jail time for obstruction, perjury etc.

Second, If witnesses werent dying under mysterious circumstances and oh yeah "committing suicide" before they were planning to give testimony against the Clintons, you can be assured that President Clinton would be in jail right now.

People dont mysteriously die and commit suicide to protect politicians.

Avatar,

You don't know that for one nanosecond....not one! You don't know how a jury would have come out. And you know if you are a JD, that an impeachment is not anywhere near fair... it is a Political Process...

It only takes 50% of the people in the house to indict him/impeach him and it only takes 2/3's of the Senate to convict him.... while in a Jury trial, a Criminal trial, it takes 100% of the jury people to convict. And In an Impeachment, the preponderance of innocence is not nearly as strong as it is in our Criminal system?

At least this is what I have read on the subject?

Am I wrong and I am mistaking you for someone else that is a lawyer or Jd?

Also, Libby was given a jury trial, and was convicted, was he disbarred? He should be, if Clinton was for his miniscule lie, but a lie NONE the LESS...no excuses here on that, but Libby's lies...and obstruction of Justice seemed a hell of alot MORE important to the country than Clinton's about sex.
-------------------------------------------
And why isn't this thread in Conspiracy Theories? I really am not understanding how things logically work around here?

avatar4321
09-16-2007, 05:34 PM
Which of the peopel on his witness list died?

you are so not seriously asking this question on this of all threads are you?

truthmatters
09-16-2007, 05:53 PM
4

Kathianne
09-16-2007, 05:54 PM
Avatar,

You don't know that for one nanosecond....not one! You don't know how a jury would have come out. And you know if you are a JD, that an impeachment is not anywhere near fair... it is a Political Process...

It only takes 50% of the people in the house to indict him/impeach him and it only takes 2/3's of the Senate to convict him.... while in a Jury trial, a Criminal trial, it takes 100% of the jury people to convict. And In an Impeachment, the preponderance of innocence is not nearly as strong as it is in our Criminal system?

At least this is what I have read on the subject?

Am I wrong and I am mistaking you for someone else that is a lawyer or Jd?

Also, Libby was given a jury trial, and was convicted, was he disbarred? He should be, if Clinton was for his miniscule lie, but a lie NONE the LESS...no excuses here on that, but Libby's lies...and obstruction of Justice seemed a hell of alot MORE important to the country than Clinton's about sex.
-------------------------------------------
And why isn't this thread in Conspiracy Theories? I really am not understanding how things logically work around here?

Which is why all the above are so common?

manu1959
09-16-2007, 05:54 PM
So tell me how Clinton controlled the heart attack of Mc dougal?

he was injected with an oil like substance that left no trace.....

truthmatters
09-16-2007, 06:07 PM
4

JohnDoe
09-16-2007, 06:08 PM
Which is why all the above are so common????huh??? I don't understand what you are trying to say Kath? explain, pretty please...

jd

manu1959
09-16-2007, 06:21 PM
So far we have one example and it failed to hit the mark.

Any other "witnesses" to mention?

why .... did he not actually die?

Kathianne
09-16-2007, 07:03 PM
Which is why all the above are so common?These 'theories' have been around 'forever.' I don't think Clinton knocked off staff, anymore than I think Bush was behind 9/11. Conspiracies suck.

JohnDoe
09-17-2007, 09:22 AM
These 'theories' have been around 'forever.' I don't think Clinton knocked off staff, anymore than I think Bush was behind 9/11. Conspiracies suck. Yes, I am on the same plateau as you on this...

truthmatters
09-17-2007, 10:34 AM
4

Nukeman
09-17-2007, 10:43 AM
The best way to put an end to them is to investigate them fully without obstruction. If we do that then we can put it behind us. If we dont it will never go away.I have to ask truth!! Are you looking for truth in "meaning" or "reason"? If you can answer this than maybe we can answer your questions because than we will know what your looking for......

jimnyc
09-17-2007, 11:07 AM
The best way to put an end to them is to investigate them fully without obstruction. If we do that then we can put it behind us. If we dont it will never go away.

I'm glad to hear you agree that Bill and Hillary should be fully investigated. :)

KarlMarx
09-17-2007, 02:01 PM
I'm glad to hear you agree that Bill and Hillary should be fully investigated. :)
IMO... if that were done, Bill and Hillary would be headed for the Big House instead of the White House.

April15
09-17-2007, 05:27 PM
IMO... if that were done, Bill and Hillary would be headed for the Big House instead of the White House.If every person was fully investigated they would be in jail, also.

Gunny
09-17-2007, 05:53 PM
That the conservatives believe a story that has been debunked by snopes and refuse to consider their heros are despots proves how lost this nation is.
Conservatives should just leave and go to their dreamland.

That liberals believe anything other liberals so much as say or write proves how lost this nation is.

Liberals should just shoot themselves in the head and save the airfare to dreamland.

Gunny
09-17-2007, 05:58 PM
When you talk to me manny you defend them so what else am I to think you believe?

Absurd. Mr 59 takes at conservatives. It just doesn't suit your agenda to take notice.

Gunny
09-17-2007, 05:59 PM
really, when have i defended "them"....and that is Mr. 59 to you

LMAO @ Mr 59 ..:bow2:

Gunny
09-17-2007, 06:04 PM
Ken starr found nothing! His purpose was to investigate the White water finances. Why he got so side tracked, Ha ha, is another whole issue.

He was instructed by Janet Reno, a Clinton appointee, to shift the focus from Whitewater to Bill. I still think it let Hillary off the hook. Maybe not so dumb on the parts of the Clintons after all.

theHawk
09-17-2007, 06:20 PM
Could you POSSIBLY be more obvious? If this were Bush you'd have 10 threads going about the coverup.

How simple can one person be?

Exactly, if there were just a few of these types of deaths around Bush, they'd be going ape shit over it.

Guernicaa
09-18-2007, 05:03 PM
I have to tell you that there is another Clinton casualty... I'm living in it...

Upstate New York has been in an economic depression since the late 1980s. The unemployment is high and the population is low (sounds like a line from a show tune, doesn't it?). When she was running for Senate, Mrs Clinton promised 200,000 jobs for the upstate area. Not that I'm one to believe such a thing, nor do I believe that she's responsible for bringing jobs to the area... but... she promised, and some were stupid enough to believe her enough to elect her to office (and re-elect her, as well). So there you go.
Couple of things:
-Got a link for "Mrs Clinton promised 200,000 jobs for the upstate area"??
-What part of upstate are you talking about? I live in upstate and theres deffinetly been an increase in jobs in certain areas. Where I live is disgustingly depressed and low on jobs, but it's gotten better in the past 5 years. If it wasn't for the University we would be shit out of luck.

jimnyc
09-18-2007, 05:19 PM
-Got a link for "Mrs Clinton promised 200,000 jobs for the upstate area"??

http://www.hillaryproject.com/index.php?/en/story-details/the_ineffective_senator
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=15585
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/6/1/103339.shtml?s=ic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Rodham_Clinton
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/11/07/senate.ny/

And not only did she fall short of her promise, it appears she lost well over 100,000 jobs instead.

revelarts
04-25-2015, 08:53 PM
Bump...

jimnyc
04-26-2015, 08:24 AM
Bump...

Thanks for a blast from the past! Now I remember why I detest truthmatters so much, and her stupidity, and her deleting of her old posts because of just how stupid she was. Seriously, who goes back and deletes posts that makes them look like an ignoramus, or because they are pissed? LOL But still a good read about Shrillary, even if I do believe a lot of it doesn't pass the snuff test (all the deaths).

http://i.imgur.com/ymJBzjD.gif

NightTrain
04-26-2015, 10:08 AM
Wow, an 8 year Necro! I think that's some kind of record.

Abbey
04-26-2015, 01:04 PM
Wow, an 8 year Necro! I think that's some kind of record.

Hillary running made it bump-worthy. A rare circumstance.

"Things that go bump in the night". NOT Bill and Hillary, that's for sure! :laugh2:

aboutime
04-26-2015, 08:53 PM
We should all pay attention, and watch how long it takes for the authors who are now talking about the Hildebeast...to become ironic, strange, victims of coincidental accidents. Ya know? Like Breitbart, and a man named VINCE FOSTER???

I know, I know. Conspiracy theories. But, didn't Hillary start her own with the "VAST RIGHT WINGY THINGY?"

Jeff
04-27-2015, 07:16 AM
Hillary running made it bump-worthy. A rare circumstance.

"Things that go bump in the night". NOT Bill and Hillary, that's for sure! :laugh2:

Bill and any female but Hillary that is. :laugh: