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jimnyc
12-16-2020, 02:10 PM
You hear a lot of stories over the years about various ways the government can control the people. And then even with this pandemic, there was plenty of talk about how it is used and abused to control the people in various manners.

With that said... I think a lot of folks will be more and more willing to run out and get vaccinated - less so in order to quickly preserve their lives and more so just so that they can get back to normal lives. And that's ok with me. But will folks be willing to so quickly toss out any concern about a vaccine that was literally rushed out in less than a year, when it would normally take years to get one out, and testing would be 100x more rigorous?

I'm not saying there weren't breakthroughs, and that thus far the success rate is 90%+. And my confidence in doctors around the entire world is still pretty high. But nonetheless, there is no way to be fully confident in the safety when there is simply less testing. Is what it is.

Either way my ass would be at the end of the line, so I'll get to see how things play out. But it does make you wonder if any corners were cut and if so which ones exactly?

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Increasing Number of Americans Willing to Take Coronavirus Vaccine

The number of Americans willing to take a vaccine for the novel coronavirus has increased in the last two months, a Kaiser Family Foundation poll released Tuesday showed.

The survey found 71 percent of Americans now say they will “definitely” or “probably” get a coronavirus vaccine “if it was determined to be safe by scientists and available for free to everyone who wanted it” — up from the 63 percent who said the same in September.

Of those, 41 percent said they would “definitely get it,” followed by 30 percent who said they would “probably get it.” Twelve percent said they would “probably not get it,” and 15 percent said they would “definitely not get it.”

Political leaders, such as Gov. Andrew Cuomo (D-NY), have emphasized equitable distribution of the vaccine, prioritizing vulnerable groups. Two-thirds of the public believe the vaccine will be widely distributed in such a way, although “about half (48%) of Black adults say they are not confident that the development of a COVID-19 [Chinese coronavirus] vaccine is taking the needs of Black people into account, and over a third (36%) of Hispanic adults say the same about the needs of Hispanic people.”

Over a quarter of Americans, or 27 percent, still say they would “probably or definitely would not” get a vaccination under the same criteria — if it were both free and deemed safe. Republicans remain the most skeptical, with 42 percent expressing hesitancy. Thirty-five percent of black adults also signaled that they would not get vaccinated. Nonetheless, the willingness to get vaccinated increased for both Democrats — jumping from 77 percent to 86 percent — and Republicans — 47 percent to 56 percent — since September.

Per the survey’s findings:


Among those who are hesitant to get a COVID-19 vaccine, the main reasons are worries about possible side effects (59% cite this as a major reason), lack of trust in the government to ensure the vaccines’ safety and effectiveness (55%), concerns that the vaccine is too new (53%), and concerns over the role of politics in the development process (51%). About half of Black adults who say they probably or definitely won’t get vaccinated cite as major reasons that they don’t trust vaccines in general (47%) or that they are worried they may get COVID-19 from the vaccine (50%), suggesting that messages combatting particular types of misinformation may be especially important for increasing vaccine confidence among this group.

Overall, however, willingness to get the vaccination has increased among ethnic groups, the survey found:


Looking across racial and ethnic groups, there has been an increase in vaccine willingness among Black, Hispanic, and White adults alike. The change is perhaps most dramatic among Black adults, among whom willingness to get vaccinated increased from 50% in September to 62% in December. While Black adults were about evenly split in September on whether or not they would get a COVID-19 vaccine that was free and determined to be safe by scientists, they are now almost twice as likely to say they would get vaccinated as to say they would not (62% vs. 35%).

Rest - https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/12/16/poll-increasing-number-americans-willing-take-coronavirus-vaccine/

SassyLady
12-16-2020, 04:54 PM
Just a thought. Let's say this virus was created in a lab couple years ago. They've een working on vaccine during that time. Release virus. Get governments to fund research and purchase miracle vaccine.

I wonder who bought big pharma stock in last 2 years?

Gates? Soros?

It would be interesting to know.

Abbey Marie
12-16-2020, 05:36 PM
So, what are the feelings here about the vaccine?

Who is taking it when available? Never taking it? Undecided/wait and see?

Mr. P
12-16-2020, 06:19 PM
I don't do the Flu vaccine. I have no plan for doing this one.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
12-16-2020, 06:41 PM
I don't do the Flu vaccine. I have no plan for doing this one.

Exactly my position on both..
I do not do flu shots -- I will not do this "who knows what cocktail". :salute:

My life, my choice , my freedom.-- :saluting2:----Tyr

jimnyc
12-16-2020, 06:52 PM
So, what are the feelings here about the vaccine?

Who is taking it when available? Never taking it? Undecided/wait and see?

I'll probably get it. But like I said, I'm gonna be at the end. So I'm figuring I'm gonna finally qualify in the spring, but even then they will be in massive mode. I'm going to be watching and keeping an eye out on every single report of reactions. From small to emergency level and from all of the vaccine companies. Who knows if another will be out by then as well? But I would like to see which of them turns out to have the least chance of side effects & highest chance of working. If I had the opportunity right this moment - I dunno - some of the reactions they are talking about, and how you just may feel as a result - I still may wait on it.

I also understand that I am blessed. Some folks will have little choice but to take it immediately. Some have in fact. And many have done it for the cameras already. I know at his age my Dad will be on top of the list and likely get it. So I hope him, and everyone taking it, have little to no reactions. But we know many will. And long term we will simply not know until the long term for sure.

gabosaurus
12-16-2020, 07:52 PM
My husband and I will take it as soon as it is available. My daughter, who is immune deficient, is already on the list for the next stage of the vaccine. I don't see any reason not to take it. Unless you are one of those loony anti-vaxxer folks. I do know it will be required for all children going back to school in September, 2021. I believe the military is going to require it as well.

gabosaurus
12-16-2020, 07:59 PM
Just a thought. Let's say this virus was created in a lab couple years ago. They've een working on vaccine during that time. Release virus. Get governments to fund research and purchase miracle vaccine. I wonder who bought big pharma stock in last 2 years? Gates? Soros? It would be interesting to know. My mom has owned a lot of German stock in BioNTech for several years, courtesy of her sister. I imagine it is worth a lot more now than it was a few years back. My husband bought a good amount of Pfizer a while back. The virus was created in nature, not in a lab. This is why you shouldn't listen to conspiracy theories.------> https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/09/coronavirus-origins-misinformation-yan-report-fact-check-cvd/

SassyLady
12-17-2020, 12:02 AM
My mom has owned a lot of German stock in BioNTech for several years, courtesy of her sister. I imagine it is worth a lot more now than it was a few years back. My husband bought a good amount of Pfizer a while back. The virus was created in nature, not in a lab. This is why you shouldn't listen to conspiracy theories.------> https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/09/coronavirus-origins-misinformation-yan-report-fact-check-cvd/

I didn't say I heard it somewhere Gabby. It was just a thought. However, maybe this will help you understand that it can be both. Nature and released from a lab.


https://www.independentsciencenews.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/isn-logo-with-tagline.png (https://www.independentsciencenews.org/)

BIOTECHNOLOGY (https://www.independentsciencenews.org/sections/biotechnology/)
, COMMENTARIES (https://www.independentsciencenews.org/sections/commentaries/)
, HEALTH (https://www.independentsciencenews.org/sections/health/)

JUNE 2, 2020
The Case Is Building That COVID-19 Had a Lab Origin
By Jonathan Latham, PhD and Allison Wilson, PhD


If the public has learned a lesson from the COVID-19 pandemic it is that science does not generate certainty. Do homemade face masks work? What is the death rate of COVID-19? How accurate are the tests? How many people have no symptoms? And so on. Practically the lone undisputed assertion made so far is that all the nearest known genetic relatives of its cause, the Sars-CoV-2 virus, are found in horseshoe bats (Zhou et al., 2020 (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2012-7?rel=outbound)). Therefore, the likely viral reservoir was a bat.
However, most of these ancestor-like bat coronaviruses cannot infect humans (Ge et al., 2013 (https://www.nature.com/articles/nature12711)). In consequence, from its beginning, a key question hanging over the pandemic has been: How did a bat RNA virus evolve into a human pathogen that is both virulent and deadly?
The answer almost universally seized upon is that there was an intermediate species. Some animal, perhaps a snake, perhaps a palm civet, perhaps a pangolin, served as a temporary host. This bridging animal would probably have had an ACE2 cellular receptor (the molecule which allows cellular entry of the virus) intermediate in protein sequence (or at least structure) between the bat and the human one (Wan et al., 2020 (https://doi.org/10.1128/JVI.00127-20)).
https://www.independentsciencenews.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Shi-Zheng-Li-bat-release-600x401.jpgShi Zheng-Li releases a batIn the press and in the scientific literature, scenarios by which this natural zoonotic transfer might have occurred have been endlessly mulled. Most were fuelled by early findings that many of the earliest COVID-19 cases seem to have occurred in and around Wuhan’s Huanan live animal market. [The latest data are that 14 of the 41 earliest cases, including the first, had no connection to the animal market (Huang et al. 2020 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7159299/))].
Since the two previous coronavirus near-pandemics of SARS (2002-3) and MERS (2012) both probably came from bats and both are thought (but not proven) to have transitioned to humans via intermediate animals (civets and dromedaries respectively), a natural zoonotic pathway is a reasonable first assumption (Andersen et al., 2020 (https://www.nature.com/articles/S41591-020-0820-9)).
The idea, as it applied to the original (2002) SARS outbreak, is that the original bat virus infected a civet. The virus then evolved briefly in this animal species, but not enough to cause a civet pandemic, and then was picked up by a human before it died out in civets. In this first human (patient zero) the virus survived, perhaps only barely, but was passed on, marking the first case of human to human transmission. As it was successively passed on in its first few human hosts the virus rapidly evolved, adapting to better infect its new hosts. After a few such tentative transmissions the pandemic proper began.
Perhaps this scenario is approximately how the current COVID-19 pandemic began.
But one other troubling possibility must be dispensed with. It follows from the fact that the epicentre city, Wuhan (pop. 11 million), happens to be the global epicentre of bat coronavirus research (e.g. Hu et al., 2017 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5708621/)).
Prompted by this proximity, various researchers (https://twitter.com/R_H_Ebright) and news media (https://thebulletin.org/2020/05/natural-spillover-or-research-lab-leak-why-a-credible-investigation-in-needed-to-determine-the-origin-of-the-coronavirus-pandemic/), prominently the Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/how-did-covid-19-begin-its-initial-origin-story-is-shaky/2020/04/02/1475d488-7521-11ea-87da-77a8136c1a6d_story.html), and with much more data Newsweek (https://www.newsweek.com/controversial-wuhan-lab-experiments-that-may-have-started-coronavirus-pandemic-1500503), have drawn up a prima facie case that a laboratory origin is a strong possibility (Zhan et al., 2020 (https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.01.073262v1); Piplani et al., 2020 (https://arxiv.org/pdf/2005.06199.pdf)). That is, one of the two labs in Wuhan that has worked on coronaviruses accidentally let a natural virus escape; or, the lab was genetically engineering (or otherwise manipulating) a Sars-CoV-2-like virus which then escaped.
Unfortunately, in the US at least, the question of the pandemic’s origin has become a political football; either an opportunity for Sinophobia or a partisan “blame game (https://www.theunion.com/opinion/columns/terry-mclaughlin-enough-with-the-blame-game-on-covid-19-response/)“.
But the potential of a catastrophic lab release is not a game and systemic problems of competence and opacity are certainly not limited to China (Lipsitch, 2018 (https://link.springer.com/protocol/10.1007/978-1-4939-8678-1_29)). The US Department of Homeland Security (DHS) is currently constructing a new and expanded national Bio and Agro-defense facility in Manhattan, Kansas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Bio_and_Agro-Defense_Facility). DHS has estimated that the 50-year risk (defined as having an economic impact of $9-50 billion) of a release from its lab at 70%.
When a National Research Council committee inspected these DHS estimates they concluded “The committee finds that the risks and costs could well be significantly higher than that (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4128296/)“.
A subsequent committee report (NAP, 2012 (https://www.nap.edu/catalog/13418/evaluation-of-the-updated-site-specific-risk-assessment-for-the-national-bio-and-agro-defense-facility-in-manhattan-kansas)) continued:
“the committee was instructed to judge the adequacy and validity of the uSSRA [updated Site-Specific Risk Assessment]. The committee has identified serious concerns about (1) the misapplication of methods used to assess risk, (2) the failure to make clear whether and how the evidence used to support risk assessment assumptions had been thoroughly reviewed and adequately evaluated, (3) the limited breadth of literature cited and the misinterpretation of some of the significant supporting literature, (4) the failure to explain the criteria used to select assumptions when supporting literature is conflicting, (5) the failure to consider important risk pathways, and (6) the inadequate treatment of uncertainty. Those deficiencies are not equally problematic, but they occur with sufficient frequency to raise doubts about the adequacy and validity of the risk results presented. In most instances (e.g., operational activities at the NBAF), the identified problems lead to an underestimation of risk; in other instances (e.g., catastrophic natural hazards), the risks may be overestimated. As a result, the committee concludes that the uSSRA is technically inadequate in critical respects and is an insufficient basis on which to judge the risks associated with the proposed NBAF in Manhattan, Kansas.”
China, meanwhile, having opened its first in Wuhan in 2018, is planning to roll out a national network of BSL-4 labs (Yuan, 2019 (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2588933819300391)). Like many other countries, it is investing significantly in disease surveillance and collection of viruses from wild animal populations and in high-risk recombinant virus research with Potential Pandemic Pathogens (PPPs).


https://www.independentsciencenews.org/health/the-case-is-building-that-covid-19-had-a-lab-origin/



I'm not an antivavaxer ... I've had flu shots, shingles, pneumonia shots, tetanus, etc., but I asked my doctor last week if I had any medical issues other than my age that would put me at risk. She said no, just my age. So, I'll probably not get it.