US and our allies want us out of Iraq

[truthmatters]

http://tinyurl.com/2cu9qv


This is an international poll which shows that 67% of the people of the world want us out of Iraq in a year.

[Nukeman]

http://tinyurl.com/2cu9qv


This is an international poll which shows that 67% of the people of the world want us out of Iraq in a year.

Out of 6 billion people they sampled 23,000 people in 22 countries, Most countries had 1000 people asked. Gee I can see that being most of the world I mean that amounts to what percentage point of people sampled .00003.....

Yaa EVERYONE WANTS US OUT!!!!

[truthmatters]

Do you understand the science of polling ?


read and learn

http://datalink.ropercenter.uconn.edu/using/polling_101.html#i

An Important Observation

As the sample size increases there are diminishing returns in percentage error. At percentages near 50% the statistical error drops from 7 to 5% as the sample size is increased from 250 to 500. But if the sample size is increased from 750 to 1,000 the statistical error drops from 4 to 3%. As the sample size rises above 1,000, the decrease in marginal returns is even more noticeable.


1000 is the point at which the error rate becomes manageble and statistically insgnificant.

The fact that they went even further than that makes the poll eve more trusted.

Polling is used in all fields because it has been an effective tool to understand public opinion world wide for all sectors of mans endevors. Corporations use polling to deside product design and advertising.Polling works so it is used. To deny polling when you dot like the result and embrace it when you do is dishonest.

[Mr. P]

Wow 22 counties, except the one that counts the most....IRAQ. :slap:

[retiredman]

Wow 22 counties, except the one that counts the most....IRAQ. :slap:

http://www.iraqanalysis.org/info/55

Opinion poll for BBC, ABC News and NHK (10 Sept 2007)
About 70% of Iraqis believe security has deteriorated in the area covered by the US military "surge" of the past six months.

Suggests that 'the overall mood in Iraq is as negative as it has been since the US-led invasion in 2003'. Only 29% think things will get better in the next year, compared to 64% two years ago. Nearly 60% see attacks on US-led forces as justified. This rises to 93% among Sunni Muslims compared to 50% for Shia. Growing disparity between Shia and Sunni satisfaction levels.

[Nukeman]

Do you understand the science of polling ?


read and learn
http://datalink.ropercenter.uconn.edu/using/polling_101.html#i

An Important Observation

As the sample size increases there are diminishing returns in percentage error. At percentages near 50% the statistical error drops from 7 to 5% as the sample size is increased from 250 to 500. But if the sample size is increased from 750 to 1,000 the statistical error drops from 4 to 3%. As the sample size rises above 1,000, the decrease in marginal returns is even more noticeable.


1000 is the point at which the error rate becomes manageble and statistically insgnificant.

The fact that they went even further than that makes the poll eve more trusted.

Polling is used in all fields because it has been an effective tool to understand public opinion world wide for all sectors of mans endevors. Corporations use polling to deside product design and advertising.Polling works so it is used. To deny polling when you dot like the result and embrace it when you do is dishonest.
Once again you think I/we dont understand. I fully understand how polls work.. I'm not retarded although you certainly think so...

[retiredman]

Once again you think I/we dont understand. I fully understand how polls work.. I'm not retarded although you certainly think so...

One can see how TM might have wondered....you did say this:

Out of 6 billion people they sampled 23,000 people in 22 countries, Most countries had 1000 people asked. Gee I can see that being most of the world I mean that amounts to what percentage point of people sampled .00003.....

[Nukeman]

One can see how TM might have wondered....you did say this:

Out of 6 billion people they sampled 23,000 people in 22 countries, Most countries had 1000 people asked. Gee I can see that being most of the world I mean that amounts to what percentage point of people sampled .00003..... You know your right the number of people sampled actually is .000003833333 % of the world population so your correct I gave the poll too much credit didnt I!!!

or would you rather I said 3.83333 to the power of -6

[Mr. P]

http://www.iraqanalysis.org/info/55

Opinion poll for BBC, ABC News and NHK (10 Sept 2007)
About 70% of Iraqis believe security has deteriorated in the area covered by the US military "surge" of the past six months.

Suggests that 'the overall mood in Iraq is as negative as it has been since the US-led invasion in 2003'. Only 29% think things will get better in the next year, compared to 64% two years ago. Nearly 60% see attacks on US-led forces as justified. This rises to 93% among Sunni Muslims compared to 50% for Shia. Growing disparity between Shia and Sunni satisfaction levels.

Opinion poll for BBC, ABC News and NHK Who did the poll IRAN? And a whopping 2000 polled at that...what a joke.

[retiredman]

You know your right the number of people sampled actually is .000003833333 % of the world population so your correct I gave the poll too much credit didnt I!!!

or would you rather I said 3.83333 to the power of -6


I refer you back to post #3. It would seem that your statement in post #6 that you "fully understand how a poll works" is incorrect.

[retiredman]

Opinion poll for BBC, ABC News and NHK Who did the poll IRAN? And a whopping 2000 polled at that...what a joke.

someone else whose knowledge about statistics and polling theory can fit into a coffee cup and still have room for a full cup of coffee.

[-Cp]

hmmm...

Iraqis: life is getting better
MOST Iraqis believe life is better for them now than it was under Saddam Hussein, according to a British opinion poll published today.

The survey of more than 5,000 Iraqis found the majority optimistic despite their suffering in sectarian violence since the American-led invasion four years ago this week.

One in four Iraqis has had a family member murdered, says the poll by Opinion Research Business. In Baghdad, the capital, one in four has had a relative kidnapped and one in three said members of their family had fled abroad. But when asked whether they preferred life under Saddam, the dictator who was executed last December, or under Nouri al-Maliki, the prime minister, most replied that things were better for them today.

Only 27% think there is a civil war in Iraq, compared with 61% who do not, according to the survey carried out last month.

By a majority of two to one, Iraqis believe military operations now under way will disarm all militias. More than half say security will improve after a withdrawal of multinational forces.

Margaret Beckett, the foreign secretary, said the findings pointed to progress. “There is no widespread violence in the four southern provinces and the fact that the picture is more complex than the stereotype usually portrayed is reflected in today’s poll,” she said.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article1530762.ece

[Mr. P]

someone else whose knowledge about statistics and polling theory can fit into a coffee cup and still have room for a full cup of coffee.

:laugh2: I know statistics don't lie...but people do. :laugh2:

[retiredman]

hmmm...



one would imagine that polls taken six months apart might have different results. Yours is six months old. Mine is from this month.

hmmmm...

[retiredman]

:laugh2: I know statistics don't lie...but people do. :laugh2:

great.

when you comprehend "sample size", come back and let's talk. :lame2:

[-Cp]

one would imagine that polls taken six months apart might have different results. Yours is six months old. Mine is from this month.

hmmmm...

hmmm..

Your poll was on a site with an anti-war agenda........ mine wasn't....

hmmm..

You also - conveniently - left out this part:

The survey for the BBC, ABC News and NHK of more than 2,000 people across Iraq also suggests that nearly 60% see attacks on US-led forces as justified.

This rises to 93% among Sunni Muslims compared with 50% for Shia.

The findings come as the top US commander in Iraq, Gen David Petraeus, prepares to address Congress.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6983841.stm

[Nukeman]

I refer you back to post #3. It would seem that your statement in post #6 that you "fully understand how a poll works" is incorrect.

I do understand polling process I also understand leading questions as well as discarding informaiton that doesn't fit with your agenda.

You know good and well anyone can make "statistics" say or read as they wish. It is all in the type and wording of the questions..

Most polls aren't worth the paper they are written on...

[Mr. P]

great.

when you comprehend "sample size", come back and let's talk. :lame2:

Size DOES matter! :laugh2:

[Mr. P]

I do understand polling process I also understand leading questions as well as discarding informaiton that doesn't fit with your agenda.

You know good and well anyone can make "statistics" say or read as they wish. It is all in the type and wording of the questions..

Most polls aren't worth the paper they are written on...

Exactly.

[avatar4321]

Is there anyone who wouldnt want us out of Iraq in a year?

Most of us just have the common sense to realize that we have to keep things stable before we can seriously consider leaving without causing a blood bath in our wake.

Sometimes what we would like to do and what we have to do arent the same things.

[retiredman]

I do understand polling process I also understand leading questions as well as discarding informaiton that doesn't fit with your agenda.

You know good and well anyone can make "statistics" say or read as they wish. It is all in the type and wording of the questions..

Most polls aren't worth the paper they are written on...

I am curious: in that case, which polls ARE worth the paper they are written on?

[retiredman]

Size DOES matter! :laugh2:


practicing for open mike night at the local comedy club?

you are a laugh riot!

seriously...do you write for John Stewart? your comedy is BITING, man!

[retiredman]

hmmm..

Your poll was on a site with an anti-war agenda........ mine wasn't....

hmmm..

You also - conveniently - left out this part:

The survey for the BBC, ABC News and NHK of more than 2,000 people across Iraq also suggests that nearly 60% see attacks on US-led forces as justified.

This rises to 93% among Sunni Muslims compared with 50% for Shia.

The findings come as the top US commander in Iraq, Gen David Petraeus, prepares to address Congress.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6983841.stm

the sentences you chose to bold are pretty damning to your point of view. I would think that YOU would have conveniently left them out. Iraqis want us out and a majority of Iraqis want us out so badly they think that attacking us is justified. Is it MISSION ACCOMPLISHED YET?????

A half a trillion dollars, 31K dead and wounded Americans, five years wasted, AQ just as strong as it was the day we were attacked, NO fucking WMD's, and six out of ten of the people we were supposedly liberating hate us so much they approve of attacks on us. GREAT JOB. You guys must be quite proud!

[manu1959]

the sentences you chose to bold are pretty damning to your point of view. I would think that YOU would have conveniently left them out. Iraqis want us out and a majority of Iraqis want us out so badly they think that attacking us is justified. Is it MISSION ACCOMPLISHED YET?????

A half a trillion dollars, 31K dead and wounded Americans, five years wasted, AQ just as strong as it was the day we were attacked, NO fucking WMD's, and six out of ten of the people we were supposedly liberating hate us so much they approve of attacks on us. GREAT JOB. You guys must be quite proud!


there is that claim again.....just as strong but not attacking.....they must be waiting for hillary.........

[retiredman]

I am not "claiming" anything. I am repeating the assertions made by our government's intelligence agencies in the most recent national intelligence estimate. Why is that FACT so damned hard for you to comprehend?

[Mr. P]

there is that claim again.....just as strong but not attacking.....they must be waiting for hillary.........

Tis what the Polls say. :laugh2:

[retiredman]

Tis what the Polls say. :laugh2:

no...it is what our own government says.

you need to get out more.

[Mr. P]

no...it is what our own government says.

you need to get out more.

Wow our Gov is sponsoring the beast? Damn.

You really need to release some of yer Bush hate at the gym, man.

[manu1959]

I am not "claiming" anything. I am repeating the assertions made by our government's intelligence agencies in the most recent national intelligence estimate. Why is that FACT so damned hard for you to comprehend?

opinions are not facts ..... and as i said once before .... our intelligence community is suddenly reliable?

[retiredman]

I never had said that our intelligence community was unreliable. I think the political leadership of the intelligence community and the Bush administration cherry picked bits of intell to make their case. I think that every CIA operative I have ever heard speak on this issue has made the case that ALL of the intelligence about Iraq's WMDs came laden with qualifiers.... those qualifiers are ways that the intelligence community can express its doubt in the certainty of the intelligence. This fact comes from a single unverified source, this fact comes from an old satellite photograph of dubious quality... this fact comes from sources with possible ulterior motives.... this fact is based upon old information.... and so on. that is not the stuff that "THERE IS NO DOUBT" and "WE ARE ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN" come from.

I am not saying for certain that AQ is as strong as it was the day they attacked us...I am saying that the best minds in our INTELLIGENCE community believe they are and your reasons for doubting them are - inexplicable. I am saying that you chose to focus on my statements about AQ's strength and ignore the rest...here let me quote it for you:

Iraqis want us out and a majority of Iraqis want us out so badly they think that attacking us is justified. Is it MISSION ACCOMPLISHED YET?????

A half a trillion dollars, 31K dead and wounded Americans, five years wasted, AQ just as strong as it was the day we were attacked, NO fucking WMD's, and six out of ten of the people we were supposedly liberating hate us so much they approve of attacks on us. GREAT JOB. You guys must be quite proud!


any comments on the rest of it or will you stipulate to its accuracy?

[Gunny]

I never had said that our intelligence community was unreliable. I think the political leadership of the intelligence community and the Bush administration cherry picked bits of intell to make their case. I think that every CIA operative I have ever heard speak on this issue has made the case that ALL of the intelligence about Iraq's WMDs came laden with qualifiers.... those qualifiers are ways that the intelligence community can express its doubt in the certainty of the intelligence. This fact comes from a single unverified source, this fact comes from an old satellite photograph of dubious quality... this fact comes from sources with possible ulterior motives.... this fact is based upon old information.... and so on. that is not the stuff that "THERE IS NO DOUBT" and "WE ARE ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN" come from.

I am not saying for certain that AQ is as strong as it was the day they attacked us...I am saying that the best minds in our INTELLIGENCE community believe they are and your reasons for doubting them are - inexplicable. I am saying that you chose to focus on my statements about AQ's strength and ignore the rest...here let me quote it for you:

Iraqis want us out and a majority of Iraqis want us out so badly they think that attacking us is justified. Is it MISSION ACCOMPLISHED YET?????

A half a trillion dollars, 31K dead and wounded Americans, five years wasted, AQ just as strong as it was the day we were attacked, NO fucking WMD's, and six out of ten of the people we were supposedly liberating hate us so much they approve of attacks on us. GREAT JOB. You guys must be quite proud!


any comments on the rest of it or will you stipulate to its accuracy?

How proud are you selling out for politics when you KNOW Saddam had WMDs. They're STILL not accounted for with the UN. He used them on Iran and the Kurds. But you'll claim he had none because some huge stockpile hasn't been found.

The rest of your allegations are opinions, not worth the time you took to post them. You can keep on citing polls and I'll keep on saying they're bullshit each and every time.

But I'd bet the farm that if I cited a conservative-favored poll the libs would come out of the woodwork using the same arguments against polls I and the rest of the people who regularly argue against them do.

[retiredman]

How proud are you selling out for politics when you KNOW Saddam had WMDs. They're STILL not accounted for with the UN. He used them on Iran and the Kurds. But you'll claim he had none because some huge stockpile hasn't been found.

The rest of your allegations are opinions, not worth the time you took to post them. You can keep on citing polls and I'll keep on saying they're bullshit each and every time.

But I'd bet the farm that if I cited a conservative-favored poll the libs would come out of the woodwork using the same arguments against polls I and the rest of the people who regularly argue against them do.

I know Saddam HAD WMD's...I know he HAD chemical weapons twenty years ago.... weapons with a very short shelf life. I know that any of those remaining weapons are no longer weapons, per se. I do NOT know of any replenishment of those supplies since the first gulf war....do you?

And if you want to think that it is just my opinion that the Iraqis do not like us, by and large, and they want us out of their country.... if you want to believe instead that the vast majority of Iraqis welcomed shock and awe, were pleased as punch about Abu Ghraib and Haditha, are thoroughly excited about the prospect of an american occupying force in their lands for decades to come....if that helps you sleep at night, far be it for me to attempt to disabuse you of that fantasy. You go gunny!

[Gaffer]

I know Saddam HAD WMD's...I know he HAD chemical weapons twenty years ago.... weapons with a very short shelf life. I know that any of those remaining weapons are no longer weapons, per se. I do NOT know of any replenishment of those supplies since the first gulf war....do you?

And if you want to think that it is just my opinion that the Iraqis do not like us, by and large, and they want us out of their country.... if you want to believe instead that the vast majority of Iraqis welcomed shock and awe, were pleased as punch about Abu Ghraib and Haditha, are thoroughly excited about the prospect of an american occupying force in their lands for decades to come....if that helps you sleep at night, far be it for me to attempt to disabuse you of that fantasy. You go gunny!

He said shock and awe.....again.

I challenge you, mfm, to say something GOOD about our military.

[darin]

What's funny - I'm currently sitting in a room with about 84 Senior Army Commanders. NONE of them want us out 'in a year'. They want us out "When Iraq can defend itself."

Which carries more weight? The opinion of 'the masses' - many of whom are dee-dee-dee's and Mindless Sheep, or the opinion of Professional Soldiers?

[Gunny]

I know Saddam HAD WMD's...I know he HAD chemical weapons twenty years ago.... weapons with a very short shelf life. I know that any of those remaining weapons are no longer weapons, per se. I do NOT know of any replenishment of those supplies since the first gulf war....do you?

You did not "know" that, and still do not. What you know is, none have been found. Guess they just vanished, right?

I didn't keep up with what he had and didn't have until he got caught. Like in 93 with an active bio lab. Or when he got caught in the oil for food scam.

I'm sorry, but being willing to believe a leopard is going to change its spots for the convenience of a political argument doesn't make it with me. Saddam was a thug and he rose to power bullying and murdering people. He wasn't going to quit until he was forcibly stopped.

And if you want to think that it is just my opinion that the Iraqis do not like us, by and large, and they want us out of their country.... if you want to believe instead that the vast majority of Iraqis welcomed shock and awe, were pleased as punch about Abu Ghraib and Haditha, are thoroughly excited about the prospect of an american occupying force in their lands for decades to come....if that helps you sleep at night, far be it for me to attempt to disabuse you of that fantasy. You go gunny!

There's a lot of gray in between your "Iraqis do not like us" and "welcomed us." I think their opinions on the matter are about as relevant as the general German and/or Japanese people's opinions during WWII.

WAY more consideration than Saddam gave Iranians, Kuwaitis, Kurds, and/or Shia.

There's also a big difference between your black or white, for or against arguments on this topic and the reality of the situation. Time stands still for you, and those like you who can't get your minds beyond the invasion. It's done. Over. Iraq is a problem to deal with; yet, you continually return to the fact the US invaded. WHO GIVES A SHIT ANYMORE?

You lefties sit here all smug thinking a Democrat presidetn is going to just yank the troops out and let me wake you up on that one too ... it's going to happen about like cutting off funding has.

THEN where you going to be?

[retiredman]

He said shock and awe.....again.

I challenge you, mfm, to say something GOOD about our military.

Our military is, and has always been, extremely professional at the task of carrying out the directives of the civilian military command authority. WHen I was in, that is what we prided ourselves on.

If the military is asked to do something boneheaded and counterproductive to our nation's national interest by the civilian military command authority, they will do it in as professional and effective a way as they possibly can. Uniforms NEVER make foreign policy, they only inplement it or die trying.

how's that?