Rep. Tlaib Falsely Claims U.S. ‘Backed The Taliban’ In 1980s

[Gunny]

OAN Newsroom
UPDATED 6:36 PM PT – Monday, August 16, 2021Democrat Rep. Rashida Tlaib (Mich.) has been under fire for a false claim about the U.S. support of the Taliban. In a Sunday tweet, Tlaib blamed the turmoil in Afghanistan on “failed U.S. policy going back to the 1980s when we backed the Taliban against the Soviets.”
The Squad member received immediate pushback from critics, who asked her to update herself on history. Many noted the Taliban did not even exist until the nineties.
Other critics set the record straight by reminding the lawmaker the U.S. at the time backed Afghans defending themselves against a Russian invasion.


Tlaib has yet to issue a correction to her tweet.


https://www.oann.com/rep-tlaib-falsely-claims-u-s-backed-the-taliban-in-1980s/

:rolleyes:

People should think before they vote.

[fj1200]

People should think before they tweet.

[gabosaurus]

Sorry Gunny. Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. ----------------------> When the Russians decided to intervene in Afghanistan in 1979, it began a conflict with the U.S. backed Afghan government. At that time, the Taliban was only a small part of an Islamic coalition known as the Mujahideen. -------------------> https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB57/us.html ----------------------------------> CIA covert action worked through Pakistani intelligence services to reach Afghani rebel groups. That operation began after December 1979, when Russian forces mounted a surprise intervention in Afghanistan. Fighting between CIA-funded Afghans and the Russians with their Khalq allies continued through 1988. At that time Moscow, having suffered substantial losses and incurred excessive costs in the country, decided to withdraw. The last Soviet forces left Afghanistan in early 1989, but warfare continued as the rebel forces contested with the Khalq regime for control of Kabul. The CIA ended its aid in 1992, the Russians sometime later, and the pro-Russian government in Kabul fell. In the final stages of that struggle the Taliban began to emerge as a major force in Afghan politics and it subsequently drove the Northern Alliance from Kabul, confining the remnants of the original rebel alliance to a small enclave in the north-eastern part of the country. The fundamentalist leader Osama bin Laden, though getting his start in the CIA-funded war of the 1970s and 80s, did not become a prominent fugitive in Afghanistan until he returned to the country as the Taliban's guest in 1996.

[jimnyc]

The groups were known as Islamic mujahideen back in the day but the Taliban wasn't even a thing until the mid - 90's

--

Rise to power

The Taliban, or "students" in the Pashto language, emerged in the early 1990s in northern Pakistan following the withdrawal of Soviet troops from Afghanistan. It is believed that the predominantly Pashtun movement first appeared in religious seminaries - mostly paid for by money from Saudi Arabia - which preached a hardline form of Sunni Islam.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-south-asia-11451718


Taliban, Pashto Ṭālebān (“Students”), also spelled Taleban, ultraconservative political and religious faction that emerged in Afghanistan in the mid-1990s following the withdrawal of Soviet troops, the collapse of Afghanistan’s communist regime, and the subsequent breakdown in civil order. The faction took its name from its membership, which consisted largely of students trained in madrasahs (Islamic religious schools) that had been established for Afghan refugees in the 1980s in northern Pakistan.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Taliban


Who are the Taliban?
The Taliban were founded in southern Afghanistan by Mullah Mohammad Omar, a member of the Pashtun tribe who became a mujahedeen commander that helped push the Soviets out of the country in 1989. In 1994, Mullah Omar formed the group in Kandahar with about 50 followers who rose up to challenge the instability, corruption and crime that consumed Afghanistan during the post-Soviet-era civil war.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/taliban-afghanistan-who-11628629642


Who are the Taliban?
Formed in 1994, the Taliban were made up of former Afghan resistance fighters, known collectively as mujahedeen, who fought the invading Soviet forces in the 1980s. They aimed to impose their interpretation of Islamic law on the country -- and remove any foreign influence.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/16/middleeast/taliban-control-afghanistan-explained-intl-hnk/index.html

[Juicer66]

https://www.oann.com/rep-tlaib-falsely-claims-u-s-backed-the-taliban-in-1980s/

:rolleyes:People should think before they vote.


She is fundamentally right .
Operation Cyclone was essentially CIA run for the US and UK for at least a decade ( all through the eighties ) and supported the Muhajideen big time as a means to

overthrow the Soviets .

To deny would be nonsense . It was US policy albeit largely a secret then from the Sheeple .

To think that the Muhajideen and Taliban are somehow separate groups would also be silly . The overlap and degree of co-operation between these two Islamic groups is

enormous .

And unsurprisingly , you largely reap what you sow .

[jimnyc]

US was involved - but they were a different group entirely. Note I said group. One guy out of 90 grand previously.

I'm not saying there isn't a connection, or that the organization doesn't happen without the former.... but not the same.

[Gunny]

Sorry Gunny. Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. ----------------------> When the Russians decided to intervene in Afghanistan in 1979, it began a conflict with the U.S. backed Afghan government. At that time, the Taliban was only a small part of an Islamic coalition known as the Mujahideen. -------------------> https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB57/us.html ----------------------------------> CIA covert action worked through Pakistani intelligence services to reach Afghani rebel groups. That operation began after December 1979, when Russian forces mounted a surprise intervention in Afghanistan. Fighting between CIA-funded Afghans and the Russians with their Khalq allies continued through 1988. At that time Moscow, having suffered substantial losses and incurred excessive costs in the country, decided to withdraw. The last Soviet forces left Afghanistan in early 1989, but warfare continued as the rebel forces contested with the Khalq regime for control of Kabul. The CIA ended its aid in 1992, the Russians sometime later, and the pro-Russian government in Kabul fell. In the final stages of that struggle the Taliban began to emerge as a major force in Afghan politics and it subsequently drove the Northern Alliance from Kabul, confining the remnants of the original rebel alliance to a small enclave in the north-eastern part of the country. The fundamentalist leader Osama bin Laden, though getting his start in the CIA-funded war of the 1970s and 80s, did not become a prominent fugitive in Afghanistan until he returned to the country as the Taliban's guest in 1996. Sell your revisionism to someone else. That's what you should be sorry for. I watched it go down live and in color, on a daily basis. You weren't born yet, you say?

The Carter Admin via the CIA smuggled supplies and arms to the muhajadeen across the Pakistan-Afghanistan border, to supply Afghan freedom fighters waging war against the Soviet Union. The Carter Administration began the policy of supplying bin Laden, who at that time was muhajadeen, not AQ that didn't exist, not Taliban that didn't exist.

Different and better World back then. Most people supported it and people like you and that flea-bag, America-hating ho you are defending kept their mouths shut. It was the right thing to do at the time.

You are correct about not learning from history. You lefties are determined to repeat it at every turn. I also watched the fall of Saigon on TV. Another Dem moment for the History Channel. And before you try and blame Saigon on Ford? He asked the Dem Congress for troops and money to honor our agreement and the Dems said no.

Let me know if I can square away that empty space between your ears some more.

[Gunny]

She is fundamentally right .
Operation Cyclone was essentially CIA run for the US and UK for at least a decade ( all through the eighties ) and supported the Muhajideen big time as a means to

overthrow the Soviets .

To deny would be nonsense . It was US policy albeit largely a secret then from the Sheeple .

To think that the Muhajideen and Taliban are somehow separate groups would also be silly . The overlap and degree of co-operation between these two Islamic groups is

enormous .

And unsurprisingly , you largely reap what you sow .

Incorrect. The part where you state she is right. She is wrong. Tlaib's statement is that the US supported the Taliban in the 80s. It did not exist, nor did the US support it when it popped out of Pakistan in the 90s.

We appear to be in general agreement otherwise.

[gabosaurus]

US was involved - but they were a different group entirely. Note I said group. One guy out of 90 grand previously. I'm not saying there isn't a connection, or that the organization doesn't happen without the former.... but not the same. The origins of the Taliban can be traced to more than one person. Founding members were students during the Russian-Afghan conflict. They expanded into one of several groups that wanted to govern by a strict interpretation of the Quran, based around Sharia Law. ----------------> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-south-asia-11451718

[Gunny]

The origins of the Taliban can be traced to more than one person. Founding members were students during the Russian-Afghan conflict. They expanded into one of several groups that wanted to govern by a strict interpretation of the Quran, based around Sharia Law. ----------------> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-south-asia-11451718
You are grasping at straws. Why? To defend an America-hater. Awesome.

Going to tell us next where the Garden of Eden actually is?:rolleyes:

[gabosaurus]

The militants who eventually morphed into the Taliban were part of the Mujahideen, a loosely knit group from different regions that wanted to establish a central government based on fundamentalist Islamic principles. You are basically arguing semantics. Just because they were not known as the Taliban does not mean that the U.S. did not support them with financial and military aid.

[Gunny]

The militants who eventually morphed into the Taliban were part of the Mujahideen, a loosely knit group from different regions that wanted to establish a central government based on fundamentalist Islamic principles. You are basically arguing semantics. Just because they were not known as the Taliban does not mean that the U.S. did not support them with financial and military aid.

The children who eventually morph into serial killers are out there. We should kill them now just in case :rolleyes:

The US did not support the Taliban. The US supported the muhajadeen. You should know by now to not waste your left-speak on me.

[revelarts]

https://www.globalresearch.ca/articlePictures/reaganandmujahideen1.jpg

Ronald Reagan meets Afghan Mujahideen Commanders at the White House in 1985 (Reagan Archives (http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/photographs/atwork.html))

https://www.globalresearch.ca/articlePictures/isi_and_cia_directors_in_mujahideen_camp1987.jpg

Front row, from left: Major Gen. Hamid Gul, director general of Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate (ISI), Director of Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) Willian Webster; Deputy Director for Operations Clair George; an ISI colonel; and senior CIA official, Milt Bearden at a Mujahideen training camp in North-West Frontier Province of Pakistan in 1987. (source RAWA)


We Created Al Qaeda to Fight the Soviets in Afghanistan Jimmy Carter’s National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski admitted (http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/coldwar/interviews/episode-17/brzezinski1.html) on CNN that the U.S. organized and supported Bin Laden and the other originators of “Al Qaeda” in the 1970s (http://www.thenation.com/article/blowback-prequel) to fight the Soviets.

Brzezinski told Al Qaeda’s forefathers – the Mujahadin:

"We know of their deep belief in god – that they’re confident that their struggle will succeed. – That land over-there is yours – and you’ll go back to it some day, because your fight will prevail, and you’ll have your homes, your mosques, back again, because your cause is right, and god is on your side."

CIA director and Secretary of Defense Robert Gates confirmed (http://www.amazon.com/Shadows-Ultimate-Insiders-Story-Presidents/dp/0684834979/sr=8-1/qid=1163059092/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-8219747-6907339?ie=UTF8&s=books) in his memoir that the U.S. backed the Mujahadin in the 1970s.


the U.S. started backing Al Qaeda’s forefathers even before the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. As Brzezinski told (http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BRZ110A.html) Le Nouvel Observateur in a 1998 interview:
Question: The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates, stated in his memoirs [“From the Shadows”], that American intelligence services began to aid the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan 6 months before the Soviet intervention. In this period you were the national security adviser to President Carter. You therefore played a role in this affair. Is that correct?Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979. But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.
***
Q: And neither do you regret having supported the Islamic fundamentalism, having given arms and advice to future terrorists?
B: What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?
The Washington Post reported (http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/washingtonpost/access/110956747.html?FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&date=Mar+23%2C+2002&author=Joe+Stephens+and+David+B.+Ottaway&pub=The+Washington+Post&edition=&startpage=A.01&desc=From+U.S.%2C+the+ABC%27s+of+Jihad%3B+Violent+ Soviet-Era+Textbooks+Complicate+Afghan+Education+Efforts) in 2002:

The United States spent millions of dollars to supply Afghan schoolchildren with textbooks filled with violent images and militant Islamic teachings ….
The primers, which were filled with talk of jihad and featured drawings of guns, bullets, soldiers and mines, have served since then as the Afghan school system’s core curriculum. Even the Taliban used the American-produced books ….
The Council on Foreign Relations notes (http://www.cfr.org/publication/20364/pakistans_education_system_and_links_to_extremism. html):

The 9/11 Commission report (PDF) (http://www.cfr.org/publication/10353/) released in 2004 said some of Pakistan’s religious schools or madrassas served as “incubators for violent extremism.” Since then, there has been much debate over madrassas and their connection to militancy.
***
New madrassas sprouted, funded and supported by Saudi Arabia and U.S. Central Intelligence Agency,where students were encouragedto join the Afghan resistance.

....
https://www.globalresearch.ca/sleeping-with-the-devil-how-u-s-and-saudi-backing-of-al-qaeda-led-to-911/5303313



I've got problems with Rep. Tlaib
But seems if as far as the people who we should be upset with for making "mistakes" seems like her "mistake" here seems pretty insignificant.

[Gunny]

https://www.globalresearch.ca/articlePictures/reaganandmujahideen1.jpg

Ronald Reagan meets Afghan Mujahideen Commanders at the White House in 1985 (Reagan Archives (http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/photographs/atwork.html))

https://www.globalresearch.ca/articlePictures/isi_and_cia_directors_in_mujahideen_camp1987.jpg

Front row, from left: Major Gen. Hamid Gul, director general of Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate (ISI), Director of Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) Willian Webster; Deputy Director for Operations Clair George; an ISI colonel; and senior CIA official, Milt Bearden at a Mujahideen training camp in North-West Frontier Province of Pakistan in 1987. (source RAWA)


We Created Al Qaeda to Fight the Soviets in Afghanistan

Jimmy Carter’s National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski admitted (http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/coldwar/interviews/episode-17/brzezinski1.html) on CNN that the U.S. organized and supported Bin Laden and the other originators of “Al Qaeda” in the 1970s (http://www.thenation.com/article/blowback-prequel) to fight the Soviets.

Brzezinski told Al Qaeda’s forefathers – the Mujahadin:

"We know of their deep belief in god – that they’re confident that their struggle will succeed. – That land over-there is yours – and you’ll go back to it some day, because your fight will prevail, and you’ll have your homes, your mosques, back again, because your cause is right, and god is on your side."

CIA director and Secretary of Defense Robert Gates confirmed (http://www.amazon.com/Shadows-Ultimate-Insiders-Story-Presidents/dp/0684834979/sr=8-1/qid=1163059092/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-8219747-6907339?ie=UTF8&s=books) in his memoir that the U.S. backed the Mujahadin in the 1970s.


the U.S. started backing Al Qaeda’s forefathers even before the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. As Brzezinski told (http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BRZ110A.html) Le Nouvel Observateur in a 1998 interview:
Question: The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates, stated in his memoirs [“From the Shadows”], that American intelligence services began to aid the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan 6 months before the Soviet intervention. In this period you were the national security adviser to President Carter. You therefore played a role in this affair. Is that correct?Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979. But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.
***
Q: And neither do you regret having supported the Islamic fundamentalism, having given arms and advice to future terrorists?
B: What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?

The Washington Post reported (http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/washingtonpost/access/110956747.html?FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&date=Mar+23%2C+2002&author=Joe+Stephens+and+David+B.+Ottaway&pub=The+Washington+Post&edition=&startpage=A.01&desc=From+U.S.%2C+the+ABC%27s+of+Jihad%3B+Violent+ Soviet-Era+Textbooks+Complicate+Afghan+Education+Efforts) in 2002:
The United States spent millions of dollars to supply Afghan schoolchildren with textbooks filled with violent images and militant Islamic teachings ….
The primers, which were filled with talk of jihad and featured drawings of guns, bullets, soldiers and mines, have served since then as the Afghan school system’s core curriculum. Even the Taliban used the American-produced books ….

The Council on Foreign Relations notes (http://www.cfr.org/publication/20364/pakistans_education_system_and_links_to_extremism. html):
The 9/11 Commission report (PDF) (http://www.cfr.org/publication/10353/) released in 2004 said some of Pakistan’s religious schools or madrassas served as “incubators for violent extremism.” Since then, there has been much debate over madrassas and their connection to militancy.
***
New madrassas sprouted, funded and supported by Saudi Arabia and U.S. Central Intelligence Agency,where students were encouragedto join the Afghan resistance.

....
https://www.globalresearch.ca/sleeping-with-the-devil-how-u-s-and-saudi-backing-of-al-qaeda-led-to-911/5303313



I've got problems with Rep. Tlaib
But seems if as far as the people who we should be upset with for making "mistakes" seems like her "mistake" here seems pretty insignificant.You're clouding what I already stated, then stating the same thing in a round about way.

Carter and the CIA did not create al Qaeda. If members of the muhajadeen later formed al Qaeda, that doesn't put the blame on Carter for supporting what was at the time considered a noble cause.

Tlaib's mistake is significant because of her position in the United States Government. She is supposed to be part of a decision-making process that affects all of us and doesn't even know what's going on. Nothing new. It needs to be pointed out each and every time. There are people out there reading her crap that believe it. Case in point: Gabby. A willful accessory to a lie.

[fj1200]

That was fairly thoroughly debunked in many other threads ages ago. Just have to keep killing some things I guess.

[jimnyc]

I was looking up some old information and then reading some older Taliban threads and came across this one. 2 different threads from some time back. 1991 was closer in the differing times here.



What does something the Taliban did in Afghanistan in 2001 have to do with something that happened in Egypt 10 years later? Besides absolutely nothing.

In case you are unaware (and I know the majority of you are), the Taliban are NOT al-Qaeda. They are not even remotely the same.
The Taliban only exist in Afghanistan. They are the remains of a U.S.-sponsored group that formed in 1991 to fight the Soviet-based government in the area. The Taliban actually drove groups sympathetic to al-Qaeda back into Pakistan because their religious views differed.
al-Qaeda is a terrorist group active in most Middle East countries. They only came back into Afghanistan after American forces were unable to hold areas in the north of the country.

I would recommend an excellent book on the subject, but I doubt most of you would be open minded enough to read it.


Sorry Gunny. Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. ----------------------> When the Russians decided to intervene in Afghanistan in 1979, it began a conflict with the U.S. backed Afghan government. At that time, the Taliban was only a small part of an Islamic coalition known as the Mujahideen. -------------------> https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB57/us.html ----------------------------------> CIA covert action worked through Pakistani intelligence services to reach Afghani rebel groups. That operation began after December 1979, when Russian forces mounted a surprise intervention in Afghanistan. Fighting between CIA-funded Afghans and the Russians with their Khalq allies continued through 1988. At that time Moscow, having suffered substantial losses and incurred excessive costs in the country, decided to withdraw. The last Soviet forces left Afghanistan in early 1989, but warfare continued as the rebel forces contested with the Khalq regime for control of Kabul. The CIA ended its aid in 1992, the Russians sometime later, and the pro-Russian government in Kabul fell. In the final stages of that struggle the Taliban began to emerge as a major force in Afghan politics and it subsequently drove the Northern Alliance from Kabul, confining the remnants of the original rebel alliance to a small enclave in the north-eastern part of the country. The fundamentalist leader Osama bin Laden, though getting his start in the CIA-funded war of the 1970s and 80s, did not become a prominent fugitive in Afghanistan until he returned to the country as the Taliban's guest in 1996.


The groups were known as Islamic mujahideen back in the day but the Taliban wasn't even a thing until the mid - 90's

--

Rise to power

The Taliban, or "students" in the Pashto language, emerged in the early 1990s in northern Pakistan following the withdrawal of Soviet troops from Afghanistan. It is believed that the predominantly Pashtun movement first appeared in religious seminaries - mostly paid for by money from Saudi Arabia - which preached a hardline form of Sunni Islam.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-south-asia-11451718


Taliban, Pashto Ṭālebān (“Students”), also spelled Taleban, ultraconservative political and religious faction that emerged in Afghanistan in the mid-1990s following the withdrawal of Soviet troops, the collapse of Afghanistan’s communist regime, and the subsequent breakdown in civil order. The faction took its name from its membership, which consisted largely of students trained in madrasahs (Islamic religious schools) that had been established for Afghan refugees in the 1980s in northern Pakistan.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Taliban


Who are the Taliban?
The Taliban were founded in southern Afghanistan by Mullah Mohammad Omar, a member of the Pashtun tribe who became a mujahedeen commander that helped push the Soviets out of the country in 1989. In 1994, Mullah Omar formed the group in Kandahar with about 50 followers who rose up to challenge the instability, corruption and crime that consumed Afghanistan during the post-Soviet-era civil war.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/taliban-afghanistan-who-11628629642


Who are the Taliban?
Formed in 1994, the Taliban were made up of former Afghan resistance fighters, known collectively as mujahedeen, who fought the invading Soviet forces in the 1980s. They aimed to impose their interpretation of Islamic law on the country -- and remove any foreign influence.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/16/middleeast/taliban-control-afghanistan-explained-intl-hnk/index.html


The origins of the Taliban can be traced to more than one person. Founding members were students during the Russian-Afghan conflict. They expanded into one of several groups that wanted to govern by a strict interpretation of the Quran, based around Sharia Law. ----------------> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-south-asia-11451718


The militants who eventually morphed into the Taliban were part of the Mujahideen, a loosely knit group from different regions that wanted to establish a central government based on fundamentalist Islamic principles. You are basically arguing semantics. Just because they were not known as the Taliban does not mean that the U.S. did not support them with financial and military aid.

[Juicer66]

Incorrect. The part where you state she is right. She is wrong. Tlaib's statement is that the US supported the Taliban in the 80s. It did not exist, nor did the US support it when it popped out of Pakistan in the 90s.

We appear to be in general agreement otherwise.



Nice to have a large measure of agreement on something !!

The CIA ( and others ) effectively and often literally change names of groups to suit evolving narratives . Chapter one in their Game Rules .

Maybe not the best analogy but it is like not seeing that the Templars are an earlier 'version' of the Freemasons and both from the so called present Illuminati . Huge detail

differences of course but possibly all factions of those following 'the left hand path' .