The rising tide of the Blackwater problem

[truthmatters]

http://tinyurl.com/2toq3d

Blackwater makes up a large percentage of our forces in Iraq and they are not well respected by anyone there including our own soldiers.

What would happen if the Iraqi government ended up ordering them out of the country?

Would we honor the Iraq gov and remove them?

How could we even physically do that?

[Gaffer]

http://tinyurl.com/2toq3d

Blackwater makes up a large percentage of our forces in Iraq and they are not well respected by anyone there including our own soldiers.

What would happen if the Iraqi government ended up ordering them out of the country?

Would we honor the Iraq gov and remove them?

How could we even physically do that?

They are a private security company. They contract for the work there. If the US or the iraqi's decide they don't want them there they will be told to leave. Would not be a matter of how to get rid of them. If they can't make money they will go.

[truthmatters]

They are a private security company. They contract for the work there. If the US or the iraqi's decide they don't want them there they will be told to leave. Would not be a matter of how to get rid of them. If they can't make money they will go.


Who will preform the services they perform?

[Gaffer]

Who will preform the services they perform?

Another security company. There are lots of them out there. Lowest bidder will get the contracts.

[truthmatters]

Another security company. There are lots of them out there. Lowest bidder will get the contracts.

Where will these other contractors get the manpower from?

BTW they are on a no bid status anyway.

There are tens of thousands of the blackwater guys and they would have to be replaced on the spot.


This would mean our troops would be spread thinner.

[Gaffer]

Where will these other contractors get the manpower from?

BTW they are on a no bid status anyway.

There are tens of thousands of the blackwater guys and they would have to be replaced on the spot.


This would mean our troops would be spread thinner.

Where did you get the tens of thousands figure from. There are a few hundred working in iraq. They work as body guards and convoy escorts. Most are former military people. They don't perform a military role that requires our troops to replace them. They come from all over the world. They get high pay because of the dangers of the job. They are basically mercenaries.

If the iraqi's order the company out they will leave. They will be replaced by some other international security company. The guys that are there now will be offered positions with the new company and things will continue as they are.

[truthmatters]

http://tinyurl.com/2zzmpc


The pentagons numbers



The Pentagon and company representatives estimate that 20,000 to 30,000 armed security contractors work in Iraq, although there are no official figures and some estimates run much higher. Security contractors are not counted as part of the coalition forces and are prohibited from taking part in offensive operations. But their convoys are often attacked, drawing guards into firefights and ground combat.

[-Cp]

http://tinyurl.com/2toq3d

Blackwater makes up a large percentage of our forces in Iraq and they are not well respected by anyone there including our own soldiers.

What would happen if the Iraqi government ended up ordering them out of the country?

Would we honor the Iraq gov and remove them?

How could we even physically do that?

Since when do you give a damn about what happens in Iraq?

[truthmatters]

Since when do you give a damn about what happens in Iraq?


Since before we even went in to Iraq.

Why do you spew so much hate for anyone who doesnt agree with this complete mess in Iraq?

[jimnyc]

http://tinyurl.com/2zzmpc

The pentagons numbers
The Pentagon and company representatives estimate that 20,000 to 30,000 armed security contractors work in Iraq, although there are no official figures and some estimates run much higher. Security contractors are not counted as part of the coalition forces and are prohibited from taking part in offensive operations. But their convoys are often attacked, drawing guards into firefights and ground combat.

First off, that figure encompasses ALL of the private security in Iraq. I actually have read estimates that show higher figures. There are up to 180 private security companies running detail in Iraq for various firms in multiple locations. Should Blackwater get tossed, there will be no shortage of these men from around the world to step up to the plate. Our soldiers will not have to fill in for private security personnel.

[truthmatters]

There are no numbers on how many of these employees there are in Iraq which can be proven.

We are paying for them and we should be allowed to know who they are ad how many there are.

So far I see no proof Im not right about tens of thousands hired by Blackwater.

[jimnyc]

There are no numbers on how many of these employees there are in Iraq which can be proven.

We are paying for them and we should be allowed to know who they are ad how many there are.

So far I see no proof Im not right about tens of thousands hired by Blackwater.

I'm confident the military planners have a damn good idea how many exactly are placed in Iraq. But the point is, whether hundreds or thousands, replacing them with other competent professionals to do the same job won't be difficult.

And I didn't dispute specifically what you said, just that the article you referenced doesn't break down the amounts. I've read on a few other sites that it is in fact over 10k Blackwater employees in Iraq. But there are estimates of anywhere from 30k - 100k total made up of well over 100 private security agencies in Iraq.

It appears your reasoning for this thread was "what happens if Iraq tosses them out" and how would it be handled, and you assumed it would be our soldiers who would then need to take over their jobs - and this is incorrect.

[truthmatters]

The American military has not always contracted this work out. Only since the early 1990s have these companies have been in exisitance. These jobs used to be done by the military themselves. How do you replace all these jobs on the spot if Blackwater is gone on day?

[jimnyc]

The American military has not always contracted this work out. Only since the early 1990s have these companies have been in exisitance. These jobs used to be done by the military themselves. How do you replace all these jobs on the spot if Blackwater is gone on day?

Like I said, there are nearly 180 private companies already in Iraq. Some of them will pick up the slack, and I'm sure there are ex-military around the world who would jump at the opportunity to make the kind of money these guys are. There is no shortage whatsoever of these contractors.

And it doesn't matter if Iraq wants them gone "instantly". Ain't gonna happen unless we have security provisions in place. I'm confident our military planners are already making arrangements in case it comes to that.

[truthmatters]

How many does Blackwater themselves employ?

Why am I not allowed to know?

[jimnyc]

How many does Blackwater themselves employ?

Why am I not allowed to know?

Maybe you're not doing your research efficiently enough? Why not call them and ask them? Who said you weren't allowed to know?

[truthmatters]

Because the information is hidden.

I did go to the blackwater site and couls not find the information.

[manu1959]

Because the information is hidden.

I did go to the blackwater site and couls not find the information.

they are a privatley held company....you have no right to know the inner workings of their company...

[jimnyc]

Because the information is hidden.

I did go to the blackwater site and couls not find the information.

Maybe they don't share private information about their company to anyone who should happen to browse to their site. Have you tried calling or mailing them for an answer?

[truthmatters]

Do you think anyone in the media has tried that?

If they were going to allow the information out by mail why not o their site?

Why doesnt the Pentagon know the real number?




they are a privatley held company....you have no right to know the inner workings of their company...

I pay for their services and should be allowed to know what Im paying for.

[jimnyc]

Do you think anyone in the media has tried that?

I don't know, do you have a link from the media stating they tried and were denied?


If they were going to allow the information out by mail why not o their site?

Much more official via the USPS than anonymously through the internet.


Why doesnt the Pentagon know the real number?

I'm sure they do.


I pay for their services and should be allowed to know what Im paying for.

We have tax money being used daily in the government, and much of it is classified. Do you think they have to tell you about how tax money is used for national security issues?

[manu1959]

I pay for their services and should be allowed to know what Im paying for.

you are paying for a private security firm to provied security to people that need security .....

[JackDaniels]

Another security company. There are lots of them out there. Lowest bidder will get the contracts.

LOL, you obviously have no clue how the DOD handles bids

[truthmatters]

http://tinyurl.com/3yyran


Finnaly found something on it. they claim to have almost a thousand employees in Iraq but there is no official numbers to view.

These people gaurd our diplomats and I see no problem with letting the puplic know what their tax dollars go to.

The owner of Blackwater is also apparently a big Bush donnor according to this article.

[Sir Evil]

The owner of Blackwater is also apparently a big Bush donnor according to this article.

Good reason to question it, that says it all. :D

[JohnDoe]

I don't know, do you have a link from the media stating they tried and were denied?



Much more official via the USPS than anonymously through the internet.



I'm sure they do.



We have tax money being used daily in the government, and much of it is classified. Do you think they have to tell you about how tax money is used for national security issues?
If they do not tell us because it is classified information then they should AT LEAST report before the Congress's Intelligence Committee or the Armed forces committee.

NEVER should our tax dollars be used without Congress's oversite... it is our money and they are who represent us in top secret situations that can not be viewed in public. Congress is responsible for all of this according to the Constitution.

Do you disagree with that Jim?

Also, blackwater's actions are IN OUR NAME, so if they murder, we are murderers ourselves, unless WE bring them to justice imo.

[jimnyc]

If they do not tell us because it is classified information then they should AT LEAST report before the Congress's Intelligence Committee or the Armed forces committee.

NEVER should our tax dollars be used without Congress's oversite... it is our money and they are who represent us in top secret situations that can not be viewed in public. Congress is responsible for all of this according to the Constitution.

Do you disagree with that Jim?

Also, blackwater's actions are IN OUR NAME, so if they murder, we are murderers ourselves, unless WE bring them to justice imo.

Are you implying the intelligence committee DOES NOT know about Blackwater and/or how many employees they have there? I'll bet they do. That doesn't mean the everyday public has a right to know as TM seems to think.

[truthmatters]

I thought Condi just told Blackwater not to talk to the congress?

[jimnyc]

I thought Condi just told Blackwater not to talk to the congress?

And if she did I'm sure it's for good reason. What the hell does that have to do with you knowing how many employees happen to be in Iraq? You'll just keep digging and making more of the story until you can find something you can complain about.

Do you have a link to the Condi story so we can learn more about the facts?

[jimnyc]

Not surprising, TM, but it looks like you got your facts wrong.


WASHINGTON, Sept. 25 — The Democratic chairman of a House committee complained Tuesday that the State Department was blocking his panel’s efforts to investigate the private security firm Blackwater USA and its operations in Iraq.

The department described the situation as a “misunderstanding.”

In a letter to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, Rep. Henry A. Waxman of California, the chairman of the House Oversight Committee, wrote that the State Department had prevented Blackwater from cooperating.

“Blackwater has informed the committee that a State Department official directed Blackwater not to provide documents relevant to the committee’s investigation into the company’s activities in Iraq without the prior written approval of the State Department,” Mr. Waxman’s letter stated. The letter was made available to the news media on Tuesday.

In response, a State Department statement late Tuesday said: “There seems to be some misunderstanding with regard to this matter. All information requested by the committee has been or is in the process of being provided.”

The statement added: “Blackwater has been informed that the State Department has no objection to it providing information to the committee. We have offered to make available for testimony those officials in the best position to respond to the specific issues the committee has raised.”

Rest here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/26/washington/26contractor.html

[truthmatters]

I think I will wait until I see the oversight commitee agrees that Blackwater has complied bofore I will just take Blackwaters word for it.

[jimnyc]

I think I will wait until I see the oversight commitee agrees that Blackwater has complied bofore I will just take Blackwaters word for it.

Comprehension needed: It wasn't Blackwater who stated they would comply - it was the state department officials. And you have no right to any information other than what the committee releases, as it's likely confidential and as a private company they don't have to tell you jack squat.

[truthmatters]

http://tinyurl.com/26mn48

WASHINGTON, Sept. 25 — The Democratic chairman of a House committee complained Tuesday that the State Department was blocking his panel’s efforts to investigate the private security firm Blackwater USA and its operations in Iraq.

The department described the situation as a “misunderstanding.”

In a letter to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, Rep. Henry A. Waxman of California, the chairman of the House Oversight Committee, wrote that the State Department had prevented Blackwater from cooperating.

“Blackwater has informed the committee that a State Department official directed Blackwater not to provide documents relevant to the committee’s investigation into the company’s activities in Iraq without the prior written approval of the State Department,” Mr. Waxman’s letter stated. The letter was made available to the news media on Tuesday.

In response, a State Department statement late Tuesday said: “There seems to be some misunderstanding with regard to this matter. All information requested by the committee has been or is in the process of being provided.”

The statement added: “Blackwater has been informed that the State Department has no objection to it providing information to the committee. We have offered to make available for testimony those officials in the best position to respond to the specific issues the committee has raised.”




In this exchange the state department said it was a misunderstanding and the Committee has not yet agreed it was a misunderstanding. Im will wait to see if the committee comes to the same understanding.

[jimnyc]

Are you retarded? You post another link and quote pretty much an entire article - and didn't even realize it was the very article I had just posted that you replied to? :laugh2:

[truthmatters]

I knew it was exactly the article you posted and posted it with the part you left out.

The commision has not said it was just a mistake. The Secretary of State department has said it was a mistake in defending themselves of the accusation that it was done on purpose.

[truthmatters]

I find it odd that the distain is given only to me when people on the right post nothing but attacks on anything the Dems do.

I dont know why they expect the left to post nothing but praise for the right and condemnation of the party we agree with.



It doesnt seem to make any sense?

[actsnoblemartin]

I was listening to kpbs, the npr thing, and they said, private contractors are a double edge sword, that you cant go to war without them, and you cant win with them, any comments tm?


http://tinyurl.com/26mn48

WASHINGTON, Sept. 25 — The Democratic chairman of a House committee complained Tuesday that the State Department was blocking his panel’s efforts to investigate the private security firm Blackwater USA and its operations in Iraq.

The department described the situation as a “misunderstanding.”

In a letter to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, Rep. Henry A. Waxman of California, the chairman of the House Oversight Committee, wrote that the State Department had prevented Blackwater from cooperating.

“Blackwater has informed the committee that a State Department official directed Blackwater not to provide documents relevant to the committee’s investigation into the company’s activities in Iraq without the prior written approval of the State Department,” Mr. Waxman’s letter stated. The letter was made available to the news media on Tuesday.

In response, a State Department statement late Tuesday said: “There seems to be some misunderstanding with regard to this matter. All information requested by the committee has been or is in the process of being provided.”

The statement added: “Blackwater has been informed that the State Department has no objection to it providing information to the committee. We have offered to make available for testimony those officials in the best position to respond to the specific issues the committee has raised.”




In this exchange the state department said it was a misunderstanding and the Committee has not yet agreed it was a misunderstanding. Im will wait to see if the committee comes to the same understanding.

[truthmatters]

I think some use of them is probably needed but they should have alot of oversight in their opperation.