Biden vaccine mandate

[SassyLady]

I agree.


The fact that the President of the United States would even so much as think about doing such a tyrannical thing is terrifying. The fact that he’s announced that he plans to do it leaves most sane minded people speechless. The second that your freedom can be taken away whenever the President feels like it and the President becomes the one who makes all the life and death medical decisions for you is the day that you‘ve become a slave and are no longer a human being.

Philip Anderson

[Black Diamond]

Henry McMaster, South Carolina: “The American Dream has turned into a nightmare under President Biden and the radical Democrats. They have declared war against capitalism, thumbed their noses at the Constitution, and empowered our enemies abroad. Rest assured, we will fight them to the gates of hell to protect the liberty and livelihood of every South Carolinian.”

[SassyLady]

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[SassyLady]

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[SassyLady]

Postal workers not part of mandate? Since when are they not federal employees?

What other favored unions will get a pass?

[Black Diamond]

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[Black Diamond]

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[SassyLady]

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This was one of my first thoughts when it was announced those businesses of 100+ would pay fines.

[JakeStarkey]

Postal workers not part of mandate? Since when are they not federal employees?

What other favored unions will get a pass?

The postmaster general is a Trump man and an anti-vax guy. Since the USPS is semi-private Biden is going to have to finesse this one.

[revelarts]

August 19, 2020
Dr. Fauci Discusses the Pandemic with George Washington University
https://www.c-span.org/video/?474957-1/dr-fauci-warns-residual-effects-coronavirus

Question: Would you support a nationwide mandate of the covid vaccine?

https://images.firstpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/fauci-640.jpg?impolicy=website&width=640&height=363


"NO,
DEFINITELY NOT.
YOU DON'T WANT TO MANDATE AND FORCE ANYONE TO TAKE THE VACCINE. WE'VE NEVER DONE THAT. YOU CAN MANDATE CERTAIN GROUPS OF PEOPLE LIKE HEALTH WORKERS BUT FOR THE GENERAL POPULATION YOU CANNOT. HERE AT THE NIH WE GET INFLUENZA VACCINES. AND IF YOU REFUSE, WITH NO GOOD REASON OTHER THAN YOU "JUST DON'T WANT TAKE IT" THEN WE DON'T ALLOW YOU TO TAKE CARE OF OUR PATIENTS DURING THE FLU SEASON. SO THAT IS A MANDATE. BUT WE DON'T WANT TO BE MANDATING FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC.
IT WOULD BE UNENFORCEABLE AND NOT APPROPRIATE. "


Dr "Broken Clock" Fauci was right.

But our fearful and "loving" fellow citizens want to "take care" of us who don't know better.
No thanks.

the layers of lies and manipulation .. frankly layers of Bu!!Sh!t... around this disease is amazing.

...

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

August 19, 2020
Dr. Fauci Discusses the Pandemic with George Washington University
https://www.c-span.org/video/?474957-1/dr-fauci-warns-residual-effects-coronavirus

Question: Would you support a nationwide mandate of the covid vaccine?

https://images.firstpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/fauci-640.jpg?impolicy=website&width=640&height=363


"NO,
DEFINITELY NOT.
YOU DON'T WANT TO MANDATE AND FORCE ANYONE TO TAKE THE VACCINE. WE'VE NEVER DONE THAT. YOU CAN MANDATE CERTAIN GROUPS OF PEOPLE LIKE HEALTH WORKERS BUT FOR THE GENERAL POPULATION YOU CANNOT. HERE AT THE NIH WE GET INFLUENZA VACCINES. AND IF YOU REFUSE, WITH NO GOOD REASON OTHER THAN YOU "JUST DON'T WANT TAKE IT" THEN WE DON'T ALLOW YOU TO TAKE CARE OF OUR PATIENTS DURING THE FLU SEASON. SO THAT IS A MANDATE. BUT WE DON'T WANT TO BE MANDATING FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC.
IT WOULD BE UNENFORCEABLE AND NOT APPROPRIATE. "


Dr "Broken Clock" Dr. Fauci was right.

But our fearful and "loving" fellow citizens want to "take care" of us who don't know better.
No thanks.

the layers of lies and manipulation .. frankly layers of Bu!!Sh!t... around this disease is amazing.

...

No so amazing , if one reads up on the globalists.
As that is the entity that is in charge of the dem party, this o'so convenient virus that appeared out of nowhere to oust Trump and give a way to -"change the entire world"....

This part of it-- "change the entire world"- is at the heart of it and is the globalist agenda,, a key part of that AGENDA--reduce the world population by a couple billion souls.... And by reduction--they- mean by -any- all means necessary!
That is no fairytale my friend....--Tyr

[JakeStarkey]

You are not dealing with the facts as they exist.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/09/03/delta-deaths-us-fourth-wave/

The U.S. is experiencing another spike in COVID-19 cases and hospitalizations driven by the emergence of the Delta variant. A large majority of new hospitalizations and deaths from COVID-19 are occurring among unvaccinated people. A new CDC reportTrusted Source (https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html) shows that since July 26, there have been only 6,587 reports of breakthrough infections that resulted in hospitalization or death among 163 million fully vaccinated people — a percentage of 0.01 percent or less.


https://debatepolitics.com/proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Fpost.healthline.com% 2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2021%2F08%2FFemale_Covid_Vacci ne_Doctor1200x628-facebook-1200x628.jpg&hash=b05d0a3c13bd83242eb658d503c70247&return_error=1

[revelarts]

You are not dealing with the facts as they exist.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/09/03/delta-deaths-us-fourth-wave/

The U.S. is experiencing another spike in COVID-19 cases and hospitalizations driven by the emergence of the Delta variant. A large majority of new hospitalizations and deaths from COVID-19 are occurring among unvaccinated people. A new CDC reportTrusted Source (https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html) shows that since July 26, there have been only 6,587 reports of breakthrough infections that resulted in hospitalization or death among 163 million fully vaccinated people — a percentage of 0.01 percent or less.


I'm confident that that the number of "6,587" is false.
Look, I'm personally aware of 3 "breakthrough" cases that i found about simply from engaging in light conversations this past week.
1 was hospitalized, but thankfully has recovered.
I'm not sure if any of them were "reported".

But if i can count 3 out of my random small circle of contacts locally there's NO WAY it's just "6,587" out of 163 million.

Sorry, in this case I just don't buy the numbers.

[NightTrain]

Since the USPS is semi-private Biden is going to have to finesse this one.


The USPS is 100% a federal agency, you ignorant twatwaffle.


And the only thing Biden is capable of finessing are airplane stairs with his face when he forgets how to walk.

[SassyLady]

The postmaster general is a Trump man and an anti-vax guy. Since the USPS is semi-private Biden is going to have to finesse this one.
He said federal and businesses over 100+ employees. I think USPS fits both categories regardless of who is postmaster or semi private. Your grasping at straws that aren't even there.

[SassyLady]

You are not dealing with the facts as they exist.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/09/03/delta-deaths-us-fourth-wave/

The U.S. is experiencing another spike in COVID-19 cases and hospitalizations driven by the emergence of the Delta variant. A large majority of new hospitalizations and deaths from COVID-19 are occurring among unvaccinated people. A new CDC reportTrusted Source (https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html) shows that since July 26, there have been only 6,587 reports of breakthrough infections that resulted in hospitalization or death among 163 million fully vaccinated people — a percentage of 0.01 percent or less.


https://debatepolitics.com/proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Fpost.healthline.com% 2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2021%2F08%2FFemale_Covid_Vacci ne_Doctor1200x628-facebook-1200x628.jpg&hash=b05d0a3c13bd83242eb658d503c70247&return_error=1





There are no trusted sources from CDC. That's your first mistake. 2nd mistake is trusting anything from Washington Post.

If unvaccinated people are dying from covid that is a choice they made by not being vaccinated.

What about the people who are dying who have been vaccinated? Why are agencies lying about that?

[revelarts]

You are not dealing with the facts as they exist.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/09/03/delta-deaths-us-fourth-wave/

The U.S. is experiencing another spike in COVID-19 cases and hospitalizations driven by the emergence of the Delta variant. A large majority of new hospitalizations and deaths from COVID-19 are occurring among unvaccinated people. A new CDC reportTrusted Source (https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html) shows that since July 26, there have been only 6,587 reports of breakthrough infections that resulted in hospitalization or death among 163 million fully vaccinated people — a percentage of 0.01 percent or less.


I'm confident that that the number of "6,587" is false.
Look, I'm personally aware of 3 "breakthrough" cases that i found about simply from engaging in light conversations this past week.
1 was hospitalized, but thankfully has recovered.
I'm not sure if any of them were "reported".

But if i can count 3 out of my random small circle of contacts locally there's NO WAY it's just "6,587" out of 163 million.

Sorry, in this case I just don't buy the numbers.



prognosis
CDC Scaled Back Hunt for Breakthrough Cases Just as the Delta Variant Grew​​​​​​
Bloomberg identified more than 100,000 vaccine breakthroughs
By Drew Armstrong (https://www.bloomberg.com/authors/AP4SREj3GXo/drew-armstrong)
Rebecca Torrence (https://www.bloomberg.com/authors/AVRjw85GvGc/rebecca-torrence)
, andFiona Rutherford (https://www.bloomberg.com/authors/ATkNo11cclo/fiona-rutherford)
July 30, 2021, 2:56 PM EDT

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-30/cdc-scaled-back-hunt-for-breakthrough-cases-just-as-the-delta-variant-grew

[fj1200]

But if i can count 3 out of my random small circle of contacts locally there's NO WAY it's just "6,587" out of 163 million.


If those in your circle weren't hospitalized or dead then no, they wouldn't be in that number.

[jimnyc]

A bunch of flip floppers aboput mandating the vaccine. Fauci said no, Biden said no, Harris said no, Pelosi said no.... and now they are all for it. Pathetic.

Unconstitutional IMO.

--

Pelosi in April 2021: 'We Cannot Require Someone to be Vaccinated. That's Just Not What We Can Do'

On Thursday, President Joe Biden announced that he is mandating COVID vaccines for the entire federal workforce and federal contractors and requiring large employers to ensure their employees are either vaccinated or tested weekly – but, in April, Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) declared that “We cannot require someone to be vaccinated.”

“Why not consider something like requiring that everyone be fully vaccinated?” a reporter asked Pelosi at an April 29, 2021 press conference, to which Pelosi repeatedly replied that vaccinations cannot be mandated:

“So, here’s the thing: we cannot require someone to be vaccinated. That's just not what we can do.”

….

“So, if we could, but we can't require vaccinations for the Members - much less for the American people. Some people want to say, ‘Don't come into my store unless you're vaccinated, this or that.’ It causes commotion.”

Rest - https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/craig-bannister/pelosi-april-2021-we-cannot-require-someone-be-vaccinated-thats-just-not-what

[jimnyc]

And finally, some lawsuits being tossed around. Time to make it's way to the SC and the conservatives in charge.

--

‘We Will Fight Biden to the Gates of Hell to Protect Liberty’ – GOP Governors Prepare to Sue Biden Admin Over Unconstitutional Vax Mandate

GOP Governors are already telling their attorneys general to prepare for battle against Joe Biden’s unconstitutional vax mandate.

Joe Biden on Thursday declared war on the unvaccinated and threatened GOP governors when he announced a new federal vaccine mandate.

Federal workers will be forced to take the Covid jab under Biden’s new order.

Additionally, businesses with 100+ employees will be forced to either test workers or prove they are vaccinated.

GOP Governors across the country are already preparing litigation over Biden’s new mandate.

Oklahoma Attorney General John O’Connor said his office is “preparing litigation.”

“My office will vigorously oppose any attempt by the federal gov to mandate vaccines,” O’Connor said. “We are preparing litigation to stand up for our rights and defend the rule of law against the overreach of the federal government.

Rest - https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/09/will-fight-biden-gates-protect-liberty-gop-governors-prepare-sue-biden-admin-unconstitutional-vax-mandate/

[Gunny]

A bunch of flip floppers aboput mandating the vaccine. Fauci said no, Biden said no, Harris said no, Pelosi said no.... and now they are all for it. Pathetic.

Unconstitutional IMO.

--

Pelosi in April 2021: 'We Cannot Require Someone to be Vaccinated. That's Just Not What We Can Do'

On Thursday, President Joe Biden announced that he is mandating COVID vaccines for the entire federal workforce and federal contractors and requiring large employers to ensure their employees are either vaccinated or tested weekly – but, in April, Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) declared that “We cannot require someone to be vaccinated.”

“Why not consider something like requiring that everyone be fully vaccinated?” a reporter asked Pelosi at an April 29, 2021 press conference, to which Pelosi repeatedly replied that vaccinations cannot be mandated:

“So, here’s the thing: we cannot require someone to be vaccinated. That's just not what we can do.”

….

“So, if we could, but we can't require vaccinations for the Members - much less for the American people. Some people want to say, ‘Don't come into my store unless you're vaccinated, this or that.’ It causes commotion.”

Rest - https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/craig-bannister/pelosi-april-2021-we-cannot-require-someone-be-vaccinated-thats-just-not-whatAgreed. It is unconstitutional. Problem is, they'll decree it, and try to enforce it between the time they do and the Supreme Court shoots it down. That's how the dems have gotten all their unconstitutional crap around the law.

It would be nice if Biden/Dems could stand up to our real enemies in the World instead of our own citizens. It would REALLY be nice if illegals were handguns :rolleyes:

[jimnyc]

Here's Biden:

Biden in December 2020: 'I Don't Think' COVID Vaccinations 'Should Be Mandatory'

(CNS News) -- Democratic President Joe Biden is expected to sign an executive order today requiring all federal workers to receive the COVID vaccine, without the option of regular COVID testing to opt out of the mandate.

However, back in December 2020, as president-elect, Biden said that COVID vaccinations should not be mandated by the government, and masks should not be mandated.

While speaking in Wilmington, Del., on Dec. 4, 2020, Biden was asked whether COVID vaccinations should be mandatory. He said, "No, I don't think it should be mandatory. I wouldn't demand it to be mandatory."

He added, "Just like I don't think masks have to be made mandatory nationwide."

"I'll do everything in my power as president of the United States to encourage people to do the right thing and when they do it, demonstrate that it matters," said Biden.

Rest - https://cnsnews.com/article/washington/michael-w-chapman/biden-december-2020-i-dont-think-covid-vaccinations-should-be

[revelarts]

If those in your circle weren't hospitalized or dead then no, they wouldn't be in that number.

1 was hospitalized maybe one other..
still to much of a "coincidence".

[Black Diamond]

13456

[Gunny]

The Dems have to figure out a way to keep the pretense of keeping the slave labor at work to fund themselves. Giving them a shot and telling them they're safe to go back to work ought to work for all those people that believe in their cloth face coverings :rolleyes:

[Black Diamond]

The Dems have to figure out a way to keep the pretense of keeping the slave labor at work to fund themselves. Giving them a shot and telling them they're safe to go back to work ought to work for all those people that believe in their cloth face coverings :rolleyes:

Very well said. And frightening.

[Black Diamond]

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[Gunny]

OAN Newsroom
UPDATED 10:55 AM PT – Friday, September 10, 2021

GOP states are reacting to Joe Biden’s new nationwide vaccine mandate. Following Biden’s statement on Thursday, GOP states have been discussing why they’re opposed.
Following Texas Gov. Greg Abbott’s (R) announcement (https://twitter.com/GregAbbott_TX/status/1436104824660049921) to fight Biden’s order, GOP Chairwoman Ronna McDaniel (Texas) declared the Republican National Committee would be suing the Biden administration.
In their release, McDaniel stated Joe Biden lied when he promised he wouldn’t impose vaccine mandates once he was elected. Additionally, the RNC said for small businesses and workers who don’t have the money to stand up for themselves, they would take matters into their own hands by suing the administration to protect Americans’ rights.


Prior to the announcement, GOP governors began expressing they would also be taking action. Missouri Gov. Mike Parson said the federal government’s actions are not welcome in his state, as working families could see serious consequences.
In addition, Wyoming Gov. Mark Gordon (https://twitter.com/GovernorGordon/status/1436092158960824334) warned his attorney general to prepare to take action in opposing the administration’s “unconstitutional overreach of executive power.” Further, South Carolina Gov. Henry McMaster stated the American dream is no more and that the Biden presidency has made it a nightmare. He added “we will fight them to the gates of Hell” in order to protect the liberties of South Carolinians.

In the meantime, the GOP is waiting for the order to go into effect so they can take their next step, which they say is to pursue legal action.
http://www.debatepolicy.com/newreply.php?p=989512&noquote=1

The Dems want to cry "insurrection"? Looks like they're creating one to me.

[fj1200]

1 was hospitalized maybe one other..
still to much of a "coincidence".

I think quibbling about the numbers ignores the reality of the situation. Are there breakthroughs? Of course. Are most of those afflicted unvaccinated? Also of course. I'm more convinced that wholesale improvements of the covid situation will be done by vaccines and not any other treatment.

[MtnBiker]

The U.S. is experiencing another spike in COVID-19 cases and hospitalizations driven by the emergence of the Delta variant. A large majority of new hospitalizations and deaths from COVID-19 are occurring among unvaccinated people. A new CDC reportTrusted Source (https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html) shows that since July 26, there have been only 6,587 reports of breakthrough infections that resulted in hospitalization or death among 163 million fully vaccinated people — a percentage of 0.01 percent or less.


Ok, let’s assume this is accurate. The vaccines have been available for free for months now, so most people who want to be vaccinated are likely already vaccinated. Now, of the 193 million people who are vaccinated have experienced breakthrough cases of 6,587 or .001 percent, then why are the vaccinated people so worried about? In other words to a person who is vaccinated has only a .001% chance of having a breakthrough case. It would be impossible to avoid or guarantee a zero risk to a person for any illness or injury. Other illnesses like the flu can and do result in hospitalization or death. Walking or driving down the road have inherent risk. So perhaps the vaccinated people that are faced with a .001 risk need to calm down.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Ok, let’s assume this is accurate. The vaccines have been available for free for months now, so most people who want to be vaccinated are likely already vaccinated. Now, of the 193 million people who are vaccinated have experienced breakthrough cases of 6,587 or .001 percent, then why are the vaccinated people so worried about? In other words to a person who is vaccinated has only a .001% chance of having a breakthrough case. It would be impossible to avoid or guarantee a zero risk to a person for any illness or injury. Other illnesses like the flu can and do result in hospitalization or death. Walking or driving down the road have inherent risk. So perhaps the vaccinated people that are faced with a .001 risk need to calm down.

Calm down is not on the list the dem government is running on we the people.- only thing on that list is their goal of ""Fear --and FFKKKKK YOU.""
And the FFKKKKKKKKKKKKK YOUUUUUUUU part is the primary goal..
As that brings them into the new dictaorship that is their end game....
Of course with them the ones in absolute and irrevocable power to rule the newly create slave masses.
And yes, that is the main desire of that ffkking treasonous and totally leftist inspired party...-Tyr

[Surf Fishing Guru]

The U.S. is experiencing another spike in COVID-19 cases and hospitalizations driven by the emergence of the Delta variant. A large majority of new hospitalizations and deaths from COVID-19 are occurring among unvaccinated people.

Gotta love the convenient shift between "cases / infections" to "hospitalizations / deaths". The reason why we only have data on hospitalizations and deaths is because on May 1 the CDC ended data collection for cases / infections / positive tests.

CDC did that because the vaccines are failing. Yes, a "large majority" of new hospitalizations and deaths are occurring in unvaccinated but that leaves a wide leeway for vaccinated people to comprise in the data . . . And every week, breakthrough infections are comprising a bigger and bigger share of total cases . . . But you aren't allowed to look at that.

But look at what Massachusetts reported this week:

"More than 4,000 fully vaccinated people in Massachusetts tested positive for the coronavirus last week, a daily average of more than 600 people as breakthrough infections continue to rise each week amid the delta variant.

The rate of breakthrough infections week-over-week starting five weeks ago surged 64%, then the following week went up 20%, the next week jumped by 25%, the subsequent week increased by 20%, and in the last week climbed by 23%.

Breakthrough cases in Massachusetts are making up about one-third of the state’s overall cases."

https://www.bostonherald.com/2021/09/07/massachusetts-coronavirus-breakthrough-cases-jump-4415-last-week-more-than-600-fully-vaccinated-people-a-day/




Everywhere in DEMmedia and from political "science" experts, all that is discussed is cases, cases, CASES, except when we look at breakthrough infections . . .

Why is that? Well, again it's because the vaccines are failing -- they really do not offer "immunity" or stop infection and the CDC is desperately trying to delay the public recognition of that fact.

The CDC is scrambling trying to mask (pun intended) the increased share of vaccinated people populating the surge in "cases" being reported . . .

Isn't it deceptive to declare the surge of "new cases" is caused by the unvaccinated when the data shows 33% of "new cases" are really comprised of vaccinated people?

Well, now you know why the shift was made to stop tracking breakthrough cases; the CDC saw the trendlines and decided to only only track hospitalizations and deaths . . . And now you know Biden lies when he says this is a "pandemic of the unvaccinated" when upwards of 33% of new cases are comprised of vaccinated people. For Christsakes, that 33% of cases should not be represented in the data at all, should they? Aren't those people "immune"?

No, LOL . . .

In the last two weeks the CDC has rewritten its definition of what a vaccine is . . .

On Aug. 26, 2021 (and before): The CDC defined a vaccine as “a product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease.”



https://i.ibb.co/TYf7hFj/Vaccine1.jpg



On Sep. 1, 2021: The CDC changes its definition, removing the standard that vaccines produce immunity; now a vaccine just acts to “stimulate the body’s immune response . . . to produce protection from a specific disease”:



https://i.ibb.co/GPH15zP/vaccine2.jpg

Again, why, and again, it's because the vaccines are failing.

The CDC knows these "vaccines" can not be expected to offer immunity as defined in the first paragraphs in the screengrabs above. All they can honestly be described as are experimental gene therapeutics with significant side effects.
(https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/09/09/teenage-boys-risk-vaccines-covid/)



.

[Black Diamond]

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[Black Diamond]

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[fj1200]

Oh my good Lord.

[JakeStarkey]

The USPS is 100% a federal agency, you ignorant twatwaffle. And the only thing Biden is capable of finessing are airplane stairs with his face when he forgets how to walk.

You walked into it as I intended, losttrain. And your goofy buddy, fj1200, followed you merrily down the trail.

"One undercurrent that I detected in your responses was confusion about whether the Postal Service is a government agency or an independent entity akin to a private corporation. The legal answer - that it is "an independent establishment of the executive branch of the Government of the United States" - begs the question.
As a government agency, the Postal Service would normally receive government funding to fulfill functions that are deemed socially desirable, such as providing universal service or subsidizing materials for the blind.

On the other hand, as a private corporation, the Postal Service would recover its costs from revenue received from customers (mailers). Those costs would include reasonable prefunding of its deferred liabilities such as pensions and retirement health care. If a private corporation could not raise its prices high enough to cover costs (because demand would drop as customers go elsewhere or stop buying), then losses would have a negative impact on the corporation's shareholders.

But who are the shareholders of the Postal Service?"

For goobers like littlechoochoo and others, read further: https://mailingsystemstechnology.com/article-3194-The-USPS-A-Government-Agency-or-a-Private-Corporation.html

[fj1200]

You walked into it as I intended, losttrain. And your goofy buddy, fj1200, followed you merrily down the trail.

You clearly don't know how to read my posts. I generally have a low opinion of those who talk about my posts to others instead of replying to me directly.

[SassyLady]

You walked into it as I intended, losttrain. And your goofy buddy, fj1200, followed you merrily down the trail.

"One undercurrent that I detected in your responses was confusion about whether the Postal Service is a government agency or an independent entity akin to a private corporation. The legal answer - that it is "an independent establishment of the executive branch of the Government of the United States" - begs the question.
As a government agency, the Postal Service would normally receive government funding to fulfill functions that are deemed socially desirable, such as providing universal service or subsidizing materials for the blind.

On the other hand, as a private corporation, the Postal Service would recover its costs from revenue received from customers (mailers). Those costs would include reasonable prefunding of its deferred liabilities such as pensions and retirement health care. If a private corporation could not raise its prices high enough to cover costs (because demand would drop as customers go elsewhere or stop buying), then losses would have a negative impact on the corporation's shareholders.

But who are the shareholders of the Postal Service?"

For goobers like littlechoochoo and others, read further: https://mailingsystemstechnology.com/article-3194-The-USPS-A-Government-Agency-or-a-Private-Corporation.html
What does it matter who owns it?

[NightTrain]

You walked into it as I intended, losttrain. And your goofy buddy, fj1200, followed you merrily down the trail.


Since your understanding of definitions of Government Agencies and Private Industry is superficial at best, I'll line you out. This whole premise is pretty stupid, but then again, stupid people make stupid arguments.

We'll begin with the assertion that the USPS is a part of the Executive Branch, and Ben Franklin was the first Postmaster General.

Rather than relying on a discussion between a Junk Mailer as she attempts to spark discussion with other confused individuals like you, let's dive right in with something a bit more intelligent - and with links, no less!



Most of the quasi-confusion can be traced back to the 1971 Postal Reorganization Act, which eliminated the old Post Office Department, replacing it with the US Postal Service. The act was intended to make the USPS self-financing from its own revenues, and to make it an independent, non-political public service. Prior to the PRA, postmasters (including the postmaster general) were political appointees; rates were set by Congress, and the POD had to go through the appropriations process to get the money it needed to operate.The PRA established a Board of Governors who were responsible for selecting the PMG and setting policies and budgets. It allowed the USPS to use its revenue to finance its operations without any appropriation process. It set up a separate commission to set postage rates.


What it didn’t do was privatize the postal service in any way, shape or form. Some in Congress, then as now, would have favored privatization. Consideration was also given to making the USPS a government owned corporation, like the TVA or Amtrak. But neither of those things happened. Here’s what the Act says:”The United States Postal Service shall be operated as a basic and fundamental service provided to the people by the Government of the United States”. It also defines the USPS as “an independent establishment of the executive branch of the Government of the United States”. Being “independent” doesn’t make the USPS a “quasi-” anything- it simply means it is not part of one of the cabinet departments. Other “independent” agencies include the CIA and NASA.


In a footnote to its most recent report on postal finances, the Congressional Research Service, part of the Library of Congress, had this to say:


The USPS often is mischaracterized as a quasi governmental or private entity. It is neither. The USPS is a government agency that was created by Congress to achieve various public purposes. Federal law defines what products and services the Postal Service may offer. Additionally, the USPS’s employees are federal employees who participate in the Civil Service Retirement System, the Federal Employees Retirement System, and the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program.




The Supreme Court has even weighed in on what being “independent” means for the USPS, in an opinion from 2004 (https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/540/736/):
The PRA’s designation of the Postal Service as an “independent establishment of the executive branch of the Government of the United States,” 39 U. S. C. §201, is not consistent with the idea that the Postal Service is an entity existing outside the Government. Indeed, the designation indicates just the contrary. The PRA gives the Postal Service a high degree of independence from other Government offices, but it remains part of the Government.

https://postalnews.com/blog/2015/05/09/postal-myths-2-the-usps-is-not-a-government-agency/

Given your demonstrated lack of mental capacity to debate even this most rudimentary subject matter, Jakey, it's clear that you should not debate something as important as what sandwich you might enjoy for lunch.

Dismissed.

[NightTrain]

JakeStarkey you're welcome.

[Black Diamond]

13465

[NightTrain]

You walked into it as I intended, losttrain. And your goofy buddy, fj1200, followed you merrily down the trail.

For goobers like littlechoochoo and others, read further: https://mailingsystemstechnology.com/article-3194-The-USPS-A-Government-Agency-or-a-Private-Corporation.html


Since your understanding of definitions of Government Agencies and Private Industry is superficial at best, I'll line you out. This whole premise is pretty stupid, but then again, stupid people make stupid arguments.

We'll begin with the assertion that the USPS is a part of the Executive Branch, and Ben Franklin was the first Postmaster General.

Rather than relying on a discussion between a Junk Mailer as she attempts to spark discussion with other confused individuals like you, let's dive right in with something a bit more intelligent - and with links, no less!


Most of the quasi-confusion can be traced back to the 1971 Postal Reorganization Act, which eliminated the old Post Office Department, replacing it with the US Postal Service. The act was intended to make the USPS self-financing from its own revenues, and to make it an independent, non-political public service. Prior to the PRA, postmasters (including the postmaster general) were political appointees; rates were set by Congress, and the POD had to go through the appropriations process to get the money it needed to operate.The PRA established a Board of Governors who were responsible for selecting the PMG and setting policies and budgets. It allowed the USPS to use its revenue to finance its operations without any appropriation process. It set up a separate commission to set postage rates.


What it didn’t do was privatize the postal service in any way, shape or form. Some in Congress, then as now, would have favored privatization. Consideration was also given to making the USPS a government owned corporation, like the TVA or Amtrak. But neither of those things happened. Here’s what the Act says:”The United States Postal Service shall be operated as a basic and fundamental service provided to the people by the Government of the United States”. It also defines the USPS as “an independent establishment of the executive branch of the Government of the United States”.

Being “independent” doesn’t make the USPS a “quasi-” anything- it simply means it is not part of one of the cabinet departments. Other “independent” agencies include the CIA and NASA.


In a footnote to its most recent report on postal finances, the Congressional Research Service, part of the Library of Congress, had this to say:

The USPS often is mischaracterized as a quasi governmental or private entity. It is neither. The USPS is a government agency that was created by Congress to achieve various public purposes. Federal law defines what products and services the Postal Service may offer. Additionally, the USPS’s employees are federal employees who participate in the Civil Service Retirement System, the Federal Employees Retirement System, and the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program.



The Supreme Court has even weighed in on what being “independent” means for the USPS, in an opinion from 2004 (https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/540/736/):

The PRA’s designation of the Postal Service as an “independent establishment of the executive branch of the Government of the United States,” 39 U. S. C. §201, is not consistent with the idea that the Postal Service is an entity existing outside the Government. Indeed, the designation indicates just the contrary. The PRA gives the Postal Service a high degree of independence from other Government offices, but it remains part of the Government.


https://postalnews.com/blog/2015/05/09/postal-myths-2-the-usps-is-not-a-government-agency/

Given your demonstrated lack of mental capacity to debate even this most rudimentary subject matter, Jakey, it's clear that you should not debate something as important as what sandwich you might enjoy for lunch.

Dismissed.


I'm rather surprised that Jakey hasn't followed up on his cleverly laid trap that I fell haplessly into.

I must stupid, apparently, to actually realize where his ambush was laid. Were all those other moonbats correct about me and my intelligence after all these many years?
JakeStarkey care to enlighten everyone on your professional, and yet invisible, master strategy?

[Abbey Marie]

I'm confident that that the number of "6,587" is false.
Look, I'm personally aware of 3 "breakthrough" cases that i found about simply from engaging in light conversations this past week.
1 was hospitalized, but thankfully has recovered.
I'm not sure if any of them were "reported".

But if i can count 3 out of my random small circle of contacts locally there's NO WAY it's just "6,587" out of 163 million.

Sorry, in this case I just don't buy the numbers.

You can add me and my daughter to that list, if you want. But I want more studies on the numbers by particular vaccine. I’m starting to believe that Pfizer just isn’t cutting it.

As for the thread subject, I’ll consider accepting a government COVID vaccine mandate, and thereby forego my authority over my own body. As soon as Dems agree that a woman’s so-called “right to choose” is lethal to another human, and must be forbidden for the health and safety of others. Let’s answer the question consistently- is it my body to do with as I choose, or not? Should I limit my rights for the good of others? Hmm.

[JakeStarkey]

I'm rather surprised that Jakey hasn't followed up on his cleverly laid trap that I fell haplessly into.

I must stupid, apparently, to actually realize where his ambush was laid. Were all those other moonbats correct about me and my intelligence after all these many years?
@JakeStarkey (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=3914) care to enlighten everyone on your professional, and yet invisible, master strategy?

You must have been home or private schooled. It's obvious. Figure it out.

[NightTrain]

You must have been home or private schooled. It's obvious. Figure it out.


Funny. I actually gave you a 75% chance of fleeing the scene and trying to pretend this didn't happen.

Because you didn't have a father growing up, I'll give you some advice that you never got.

When you fuck up, it's always better to admit you were wrong. Own it like a man. That's how a man operates. This mealy-mouthed routine doesn't cut it. Yeah, it's a bitter pill when you began crowing like you'd just bagged a trophy and quickly realized you'd shown your ass to every observer, but it's still the right thing to do.

Admit you were wrong, thank me for educating you and for my fatherly advice to a youngster who's still trying to figure things out.

You'll thank me in your prayers in the end.