Clinton: $5,000 for Every U.S. Baby

[stephanie]

yea...free money vote for me..

Clinton: $5,000 for Every U.S. Baby

Sep 28 01:09 PM US/Eastern
By DEVLIN BARRETT
Associated Press Writer


WASHINGTON (AP) - Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Rodham Clinton said Friday that every child born in the United States should get a $5,000 "baby bond" from the government to help pay for future costs of college or buying a home.
Clinton, her party's front-runner in the 2008 race, made the suggestion during a forum hosted by the Congressional Black Caucus.

"I like the idea of giving every baby born in America a $5,000 account that will grow over time, so that when that young person turns 18 if they have finished high school they will be able to access it to go to college or maybe they will be able to make that downpayment on their first home," she said.

The New York senator did not offer any estimate of the total cost of such a program or how she would pay for it. Approximately 4 million babies are born each year in the United States.

Clinton said such an account program would help Americans get back to the tradition of savings that she remembers as a child, and has become harder to accomplish in the face of rising college and housing costs.

read the rest at..
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8RUJBE81&show_article=1

[Dilloduck]

yea...free money vote for me..

Clinton: $5,000 for Every U.S. Baby

Sep 28 01:09 PM US/Eastern
By DEVLIN BARRETT
Associated Press Writer


WASHINGTON (AP) - Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Rodham Clinton said Friday that every child born in the United States should get a $5,000 "baby bond" from the government to help pay for future costs of college or buying a home.
Clinton, her party's front-runner in the 2008 race, made the suggestion during a forum hosted by the Congressional Black Caucus.

"I like the idea of giving every baby born in America a $5,000 account that will grow over time, so that when that young person turns 18 if they have finished high school they will be able to access it to go to college or maybe they will be able to make that downpayment on their first home," she said.

The New York senator did not offer any estimate of the total cost of such a program or how she would pay for it. Approximately 4 million babies are born each year in the United States.

Clinton said such an account program would help Americans get back to the tradition of savings that she remembers as a child, and has become harder to accomplish in the face of rising college and housing costs.

read the rest at..
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8RUJBE81&show_article=1

If she makes it retroactive I'm in. I could use 5 grand ! :coffee:

[stephanie]

If she makes it retroactive I'm in. I could use 5 grand ! :coffee:

Heck yeah...that be 10 grand for me...:dance:

[Dilloduck]

Heck yeah...that be 10 grand for me...:dance:

You ain't twins you goofball !!!

[PostmodernProphet]

Heck yeah...that be 10 grand for me...:dance:

therein lies the error of the program.....the parents would have the money long spent before the kids turn 18.......

[stephanie]

You ain't twins you goofball !!!

Hmmm...split personality...maybe?:coffee:

[Dilloduck]

Hmmm...split personality...maybe?:coffee:


I thought it best to let YOU tell everyone that !:laugh2:

[darin]

Why do people think College is a 'right'? Geesh.

[stephanie]

I thought it best to let YOU tell everyone that !:laugh2:

Hell...I figured they all knew by now...:uhoh:

:laugh2:

[MtnBiker]

"I like the idea of giving every baby born in America a $5,000 account that will grow over time, so that when that young person turns 18 if they have finished high school they will be able to access it to go to college or maybe they will be able to make that downpayment on their first home," she said.


Her book sales must be fantastic so much so that she can give $5,000 to every baby born in America. Wow!

[Dilloduck]

Well if I am elected I'm going to give everyone in America $100 grand !!!

Top that Hillary !!!!!!! :laugh2:

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,

1. But what she is doing is throwing out a bone into the 08 elections for votes.
2. From: *The Illegal Aliens.*
3. You vote for me and I will get you 5k to sit on for your *New American Anchor Baby* till he/she is eighteen.
4. This is a rape of America!

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[hjmick]

Can we collect this retroactively?

[typomaniac]

Yea...free money vote for me...
I'ts a $600 tax cut! which has now turned into your gas money.

Sound familiar?

Probably not. Rightwads have horrible memories for how their own kind screws them over.

[Dilloduck]

Yea...free money vote for me...
I'ts a $600 tax cut! which has now turned into your gas money.

Sound familiar?

Probably not. Rightwads have horrible memories for how their own kind screws them over.

Wrong---we know and we remember.

[stephanie]

Hummm? the term, Rightwad..

Does that mean that a liberal Dem. is called a leftwad?

Does the mean that conservatives shoot their wads to the right?
And that liberals shoot their wads to the left?

strange..:uhoh:

[hjmick]

Yea...free money vote for me...
I'ts a $600 tax cut! which has now turned into your gas money.

Sound familiar?

Probably not. Rightwads have horrible memories for how their own kind screws them over.

Just imagine how much gas will cost with Hillary handing out $20,000,000,000 a year.

[Little-Acorn]

Let's see... there are approx. 4 million babies born per year in the U.S. nowadays. 4 million times $5,000 is.... twenty BILLION dollars per year, added to Federal spending with no change in revenues.

Did I miss Hillary's description of how she intends to pay for all that without increasing the deficit?

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship." - Alexis deTocqueville, ~1850

Looks like Hillary is doing her best to fulfill old Alex's prediction. Gee, I'll sure vote for that.

[typomaniac]

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship." - Alexis deTocqueville, ~1850

Looks like Hillary is doing her best to fulfill old Alex's prediction. Gee, I'll sure vote for that.
Nope. She's one presidency too late. :laugh:

[April15]

I do think it is a grand idea! All we need to do is leave iraq and we will be 120 billion ahead!

[JohnDoe]

therein lies the error of the program.....the parents would have the money long spent before the kids turn 18.......It goes in an account that can't be touched by the parents, it is the child's account at 18 which has compounded interest, and is limited in it's use...buying a house or going to college or maybe even to buy individual health insurance.... from what I have read about this idea.... I thought it was Australia that was contemplating this, but I could be wrong on the country?

[JohnDoe]

Let's see... there are approx. 4 million babies born per year in the U.S. nowadays. 4 million times $5,000 is.... twenty BILLION dollars per year, added to Federal spending with no change in revenues.

Did I miss Hillary's description of how she intends to pay for all that without increasing the deficit?

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship." - Alexis deTocqueville, ~1850

Looks like Hillary is doing her best to fulfill old Alex's prediction. Gee, I'll sure vote for that.

We are spending $4 BILLION A WEEK in Iraq for the last 4 years, and what have WE GOT to show for it?

[jimnyc]

The New York senator did not offer any estimate of the total cost of such a program or how she would pay for it. Approximately 4 million babies are born each year in the United States.

Of course she didn't have any answers, and how very typical of her. She just tosses out anything she thinks will help her get elected. It's called pandering, and she's grown to be an expert at it.

[JohnDoe]

Of course she didn't have any answers, and how very typical of her. She just tosses out anything she thinks will help her get elected. It's called pandering, and she's grown to be an expert at it.

It is easily calculated, if the 4 million babies born a year is accurate above, which I believe it is....

I have read somewhere about another westernized country that is either doing this or is contemplating doing this....

The idea is that it would get our country to save money....keeping this tax credit in an account until the child is 18 is a way to make our savings rate of NIL to go up in our country...

but the negative of this is that I see a gift horse to the financial / bank industry....

[jimnyc]

We are spending $4 BILLION A WEEK in Iraq for the last 4 years, and what have WE GOT to show for it?

Saddam and his regime are gone.
Hundreds, if not thousands, of terrorists have been killed.
Hundreds, if not thousands, of terrorists have been captured.
Primary health care is improving
Electricity is improving - huge improvements have been made since 2002
Water has become potable
Sewage systems being restored
Schools - rebuilt 3,000 schools, 20 million new textbooks and trained 133,000 teachers
Economy is improving
Iraq has over 400 functioning courts, maybe more by now
Doctors salaries are 8x more then they were under Saddam
Pharmaceutical distribution from nothing to being delivered by the tons
Banks are improving, loans going out and people are opening accounts
For once, Iraqi's can get satellite dishes
Over 200 newspapers available

I can rake up more if you like, that's just a 30 seconds search worth.

[Yurt]

Steph:


yea...free money vote for me..

TBH, it worked for me. I voted for willy 2 times because he always made these big promises about college $$$$. I was young, so I "bought" it. Fact is, it works. Like you, more people need to educate other voters on this illusory promise of $$$. All those effin promises from willy and guess what, I am still paying off my student loans and apparently if I did education and taught in a "troubled" area then I could get my loans paid off. But see, these liars don't say that in the campaigns. By grad school I had enough, I never voted for a lieb again.

[jimnyc]

It is easily calculated, if the 4 million babies born a year is accurate above, which I believe it is....

I have read somewhere about another westernized country that is either doing this or is contemplating doing this....

The idea is that it would get our country to save money....keeping this tax credit in an account until the child is 18 is a way to make our savings rate of NIL to go up in our country...

but the negative of this is that I see a gift horse to the financial / bank industry....

Hell, a monkey can calculate it, but a lot more goes into it than just 4 million x 5,000. And where does she propose the money comes from? What about the cost of monitoring? You can't just toss shit out there like this without answers and plans, or you'll appear to be just making idle promises. And we all know Hillary wouldn't do that!

[avatar4321]

Yea...free money vote for me...
I'ts a $600 tax cut! which has now turned into your gas money.

Sound familiar?

Probably not. Rightwads have horrible memories for how their own kind screws them over.

Obviously you cant tell the difference between government giving you a hand out and people keeping their hard earned money.

[Yurt]

We are spending $4 BILLION A WEEK in Iraq for the last 4 years, and what have WE GOT to show for it?

I bet on 9/11 you would never had questioned 4 billion to protect your way of life. I know it.

Us armchair warriors can say this and that about Iraq, but guess what, you STILL have the same way of life you had before 9/11. And admit it, you thought that way of life was seriously threatened on that day.

Anyone who denies that is a liar.

[avatar4321]

It goes in an account that can't be touched by the parents, it is the child's account at 18 which has compounded interest, and is limited in it's use...buying a house or going to college or maybe even to buy individual health insurance.... from what I have read about this idea.... I thought it was Australia that was contemplating this, but I could be wrong on the country?

so she has no problem with giving children money in an account no one can touch, but let people keep their own money in an account instead of pay the government the full social security, and she has a meltdown.

[Yurt]

Hell, a monkey can calculate it, but a lot more goes into it than just 4 million x 5,000. And where does she propose the money comes from? What about the cost of monitoring? You can't just toss shit out there like this without answers and plans, or you'll appear to be just making idle promises. And we all know Hillary wouldn't do that!

Good point, given all the Katrina problems with $$.

[Mr. P]

It is easily calculated, if the 4 million babies born a year is accurate above, which I believe it is....

I have read somewhere about another westernized country that is either doing this or is contemplating doing this....

The idea is that it would get our country to save money....keeping this tax credit in an account until the child is 18 is a way to make our savings rate of NIL to go up in our country...

but the negative of this is that I see a gift horse to the financial / bank industry....

*Psssssstttt* Why would people save if the gov is GIVING? What's the incentive?

[hjmick]

Hell, a monkey can calculate it, but a lot more goes into it than just 4 million x 5,000. And where does she propose the money comes from? What about the cost of monitoring? You can't just toss shit out there like this without answers and plans, or you'll appear to be just making idle promises. And we all know Hillary wouldn't do that!

Hell, we all know where it will come from. She'll raise taxes, especially among the rich, and redistribute that money in the bucks for babies program. There will probably be some type of exception as to who can participate based on annual household income, effectively cutting the number of potential participants.

[Dilloduck]

I do think it is a grand idea! All we need to do is leave iraq and we will be 120 billion ahead!

Problem is--Hillary is NOT for leaving Iraq.

[PostmodernProphet]

what she really needs to do is promise pot in every chicken....then the left would vote for her.....

[actsnoblemartin]

great breeders, get more advantages they dont deserve. Let me clue you in hitlery. Parents dont deserve a dime from the government, nor any tax breaks. Its your responsibility to pay for YOUR kid, not mine or the taxpayers.



If she makes it retroactive I'm in. I could use 5 grand ! :coffee:

[Little-Acorn]

Hillary is simply doing the same vote-buying that has gotten her ilk into office for the last 70+ years. Why should she stop doing what works? Then we will get the government we deserve, and deTocqueville will have been proven right... again.

Too bad she'll help take the finest country on earth, down the tubes with her.

[Dilloduck]

great breeders, get more advantages they dont deserve. Let me clue you in hitlery. Parents dont deserve a dime from the government, nor any tax breaks. Its your responsibility to pay for YOUR kid, not mine or the taxpayers.

Hell with the kids----I wanted it for me. Nice of her to be handing out out money like that. I'm voting for her!!!!!!!!

[Gaffer]

Here's the plan. First she raises taxes to go into the baby fund. A fund no one but the government can touch. The money will be used to fund other government programs as its just sitting their not being used. Interest will accrue the same as with a bank. But when it comes time to collect the money there won't be any there. It will collapse faster than social security. She's promising to give money she doesn't have and the end result will be all of it will be stolen by the government.

Also, if Bush has all these powers of control over the government and leaves office in just over a year, doesn't it make sense the dems want those same powers to do all the things they claim Bush is wanting to do?

If a fascist dictator ever took over this country they would come from the democrat party.

[April15]

Saddam and his regime are gone.
Hundreds, if not thousands, of terrorists have been killed.
Hundreds, if not thousands, of terrorists have been captured.
Primary health care is improving
Electricity is improving - huge improvements have been made since 2002
Water has become potable
Sewage systems being restored
Schools - rebuilt 3,000 schools, 20 million new textbooks and trained 133,000 teachers
Economy is improving
Iraq has over 400 functioning courts, maybe more by now
Doctors salaries are 8x more then they were under Saddam
Pharmaceutical distribution from nothing to being delivered by the tons
Banks are improving, loans going out and people are opening accounts
For once, Iraqi's can get satellite dishes
Over 200 newspapers available

I can rake up more if you like, that's just a 30 seconds search worth.

Isn't it amazing what happens when sanctions are lifted.

[Yurt]

Here's the plan. First she raises taxes to go into the baby fund. A fund no one but the government can touch. The money will be used to fund other government programs as its just sitting their not being used. Interest will accrue the same as with a bank. But when it comes time to collect the money there won't be any there. It will collapse faster than social security. She's promising to give money she doesn't have and the end result will be all of it will be stolen by the government.

Also, if Bush has all these powers of control over the government and leaves office in just over a year, doesn't it make sense the dems want those same powers to do all the things they claim Bush is wanting to do?

If a fascist dictator ever took over this country they would come from the democrat party.

Actually if you look at the definitions, Dems do come close. But not quite, it will be socialists or communists. More socialists, but the dems try to pretend they are something else.


Edit:

Gaffer, I now you know this, so the post was not for you.

[jimnyc]

Isn't it amazing what happens when sanctions are lifted.

Terrorists being killed or captured has nothing to do with sanctions.
Health care is better now than pre-sanctions.
Schools and teachers are better off now than pre-sanctions.
The economy is much better now than pre-sanctions.
Court systems is better now than pre-sanctions.
Doctor's salaries are better now than pre-sanctions.
Pharmaceutical distribution is better now than pre-sanctions.
Banks/loans/accounts are better now than pre-sanctions.
Satellite systems are now better than pre-sanctions.
Newspapers are thriving much better than pre-sanctions.

Isn't it amazing when you know what you're talking about! Try a little research before throwing out asinine comments.

[JohnDoe]

Saddam and his regime are gone.
Hundreds, if not thousands, of terrorists have been killed.
Hundreds, if not thousands, of terrorists have been captured.
Primary health care is improving
Electricity is improving - huge improvements have been made since 2002
Water has become potable
Sewage systems being restored
Schools - rebuilt 3,000 schools, 20 million new textbooks and trained 133,000 teachers
Economy is improving
Iraq has over 400 functioning courts, maybe more by now
Doctors salaries are 8x more then they were under Saddam
Pharmaceutical distribution from nothing to being delivered by the tons
Banks are improving, loans going out and people are opening accounts
For once, Iraqi's can get satellite dishes
Over 200 newspapers available

I can rake up more if you like, that's just a 30 seconds search worth.

:link::link::link:

pretty please.

jd

[jimnyc]

:link::link::link:

pretty please.

jd

From various sources all over the internet, how about you look up each one on a case by case basis if you don't take my word for it? I've read each one on credible sources over the past year - do you really want me to go to all the work for you, assuming you think I just made this all up?

I'll see if I can get a list since I did make the statements...

[Missileman]

How many short busses does it take to carry the members of this great democrat think tank to work every day? That's one of the most retarded ideas I've seen proposed...ever!

[stephanie]

Isn't bribery illegal??

Poor Shrill..she can't get any votes unless she bribes people..and then she does it with other peoples money...:cow:

[jimnyc]

Saddam and his regime are gone.Do I really need a link for this one? I can get you the actual video of his hanging if necessary!


Hundreds, if not thousands, of terrorists have been killed.
Hundreds, if not thousands, of terrorists have been captured.http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/09/cia_5000_terror.html


Primary health care is improvinghttp://www.usaid.gov/iraq/accomplishments/health.html


Electricity is improving - huge improvements have been made since 2002http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/accomplishments/electricity.html


Water has become potablehttp://www.usaid.gov/stories/iraq/ss_iraq_water.html


Sewage systems being restoredhttp://www.usaid.gov/press/factsheets/2005/fs051207.html (and this also covers a lot of everything else)


Schools - rebuilt 3,000 schools, 20 million new textbooks and trained 133,000 teachers#9 on previous link


Economy is improving#6 on previous link, and:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16241340/site/newsweek/


Iraq has over 400 functioning courts, maybe more by nowhttp://www.cpa-iraq.org/transcripts/20031009_Oct-09Bremerpresscon.htm


Doctors salaries are 8x more then they were under Saddamhttp://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/051004_iraq_accomplished.pdf (and much, much more in this document.


Pharmaceutical distribution from nothing to being delivered by the tonsLook under Healthcare in prior document, and:
http://www.keepingapace.com/blogarchives/war/iraq_progress_unreported.php


Banks are improving, loans going out and people are opening accountshttp://www.iraqupdates.com/p_articles.php/article/18393


For once, Iraqi's can get satellite dishesHell, they were illegal before the war! - http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0429/p06s01-woiq.html


Over 200 newspapers availablehttp://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bal-op.iraqipress21sep21,0,5693974.story?track=rss

Hopefully that'll keep you busy reading for awhile! :)

[hjmick]

You blew it jim. Don't you realize that all of that will be nullified by the one link to a Fox News pdf? :laugh2:

[JohnDoe]

Do I really need a link for this one? I can get you the actual video of his hanging if necessary!

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/09/cia_5000_terror.html

http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/accomplishments/health.html

http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/accomplishments/electricity.html

http://www.usaid.gov/stories/iraq/ss_iraq_water.html

http://www.usaid.gov/press/factsheets/2005/fs051207.html (and this also covers a lot of everything else)

#9 on previous link

#6 on previous link, and:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16241340/site/newsweek/

http://www.cpa-iraq.org/transcripts/20031009_Oct-09Bremerpresscon.htm

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/051004_iraq_accomplished.pdf (and much, much more in this document.

Look under Healthcare in prior document, and:
http://www.keepingapace.com/blogarchives/war/iraq_progress_unreported.php

http://www.iraqupdates.com/p_articles.php/article/18393

Hell, they were illegal before the war! - http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0429/p06s01-woiq.html

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bal-op.iraqipress21sep21,0,5693974.story?track=rss

Hopefully that'll keep you busy reading for awhile! :)

DAMN! YOU are good!!! hahahahaha!!!! this is going to tie me up for a week at least....and then another week trying to see if the articles are truely accurate and getting the REST OF THE PICTURE that you did not talk about, conveniently! ;)

:slap:

jd

[manu1959]

Well if I am elected I'm going to give everyone in America $100 grand !!!

Top that Hillary !!!!!!! :laugh2:

i offered to create the universal blow job program.....

[JohnDoe]

on the $5000 dohickie thing.... let me make clear, that I have not read a thing about this from the hillary camp. What I read about this idea was about 2 years ago, and it was another westernized country that was contemplating doing it and I had read an article giving the positives and negatives of it....

jd

[manu1959]

on the $5000 dohickie thing.... let me make clear, that I have not read a thing about this from the hillary camp. What I read about this idea was about 2 years ago, and it was another westernized country that was contemplating doing it and I had read an article giving the positives and negatives of it....

jd

http://www.comcast.net/news/politics/index.jsp?cat=POLITICS&fn=/2007/09/28/775324.html&cvqh=itn_hillary

3 hours ago

WASHINGTON - Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Rodham Clinton said Friday that every child born in the United States should get a $5,000 "baby bond" from the government to help pay for future costs of college or buying a home.

Clinton, her party's front-runner in the 2008 race, made the suggestion during a forum hosted by the Congressional Black Caucus.

"I like the idea of giving every baby born in America a $5,000 account that will grow over time, so that when that young person turns 18 if they have finished high school they will be able to access it to go to college or maybe they will be able to make that downpayment on their first home," she said.

The New York senator did not offer any estimate of the total cost of such a program or how she would pay for it. Approximately 4 million babies are born each year in the United States.

Clinton said such an account program would help people get back to the tradition of savings that she remembers as a child, and has become harder to accomplish in the face of rising college and housing costs.

One way of building a stronger economy, she said, is "more savings, starting with the so-called baby bonds idea where every person born in this country would be given that kind of account because we want to make an investment in America's young people."

She argued that wealthy people "get to have all kinds of tax incentives to save, but most people can't afford to do that."

The proposal was met with enthusiastic applause at an event aimed to encourage young people to excel and engage in politics.

"I think it's a wonderful idea," said Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones, an Ohio Democrat who attended the event and has already endorsed Clinton. "Every child born in the United States today owes $27,000 on the national debt, why not let them come get $5,000 to grow until they're 18?"

Blake Zeff, a spokesman for the senator's campaign, said a baby bonds program "is not a firm policy proposal but an idea under consideration."

Republican rival Rudy Giuliani criticized the idea, saying on the Sean Hannity radio show that the Clinton campaign is "based on pandering to the point where I think they think the American people are stupid."

Britain launched a similar program in January 2005, handing out vouchers worth hundreds of dollars each to parents with children born after Sept. 1, 2002.

Earlier this month, Time magazine proposed a $5,000 baby bond program.

[jimnyc]

DAMN! YOU are good!!! hahahahaha!!!! this is going to tie me up for a week at least....and then another week trying to see if the articles are truely accurate and getting the REST OF THE PICTURE that you did not talk about, conveniently! ;)

:slap:

jd

Care to share what I "conveniently" left out? I can add plenty more of good reporting from Iraq as well, that was just as brief overview. Remember, this was started by you talking about costs and where that money went and I responded by pointing out things the money was used for, so I'm unsure as to what you think I'm leaving out? Unless you're referring to military costs which I thought were a given, or costs of contractors maybe?

[JohnDoe]

Care to share what I "conveniently" left out? I can add plenty more of good reporting from Iraq as well, that was just as brief overview. Remember, this was started by you talking about costs and where that money went and I responded by pointing out things the money was used for, so I'm unsure as to what you think I'm leaving out? Unless you're referring to military costs which I thought were a given, or costs of contractors maybe?
not answering until i do the research i spoke about jim, but let me suggest you PONDER on this while i do....i believe about 11- 20 billion out of the 2 TRILLION you have claimed to be the cost of this iraq war, has been estimated as given to iraq for those schools and infrastructure and feats that you claim are happening there....THAT is less than 1% of the actual cost of this fiasco....yeah, sure, we are extremely generous with the iraqis.....if that was your point jim?

[jimnyc]

not answering until i do the research i spoke about jim, but let me suggest you PONDER on this while i do....i believe about 11- 20 billion out of the 2 TRILLION you have claimed to be the cost of this iraq war, has been estimated as given to iraq for those schools and infrastructure and feats that you claim are happening there....THAT is less than 1% of the actual cost of this fiasco....yeah, sure, we are extremely generous with the iraqis.....if that was your point jim?

Sure, change the scope of things when you start losing the argument! LOL

The 2 trillion quote was PROJECTED and we are discussing what is currently being spent on the war. And I didn't think the list was too overly complicated for you but maybe I overestimated your comprehension. If you look again, you'll see a LOT more on that list than just schools and infrastructure. Any idea what goes into the intelligence, weaponry, logistics & everything else to do battle with terrorists to kill and/or capture them? What about healthcare, any idea how much was invested in starting to help them develop proper healthcare for their people? And their economy, did you forget about that? How much of the money gets funneled into loans for them to get their economy rolling, banks started and global economy connected? The judicial system, what about the costs to get that back in a fair working manner? What about the money poured into their hospital systems (yes, I know part of the healthcare) to avail them to be able to appropriately pay and attain decent doctors and surgeons?

You're being extremely dishonest if you think a TON of the money we spend isn't being spent directly on the Iraqi people and their country. And yes, an awful lot is also being spent directly on our military and contractors too. But to insinuate that only 1% of the total spending thus far in Iraq has been towards the people and their country is completely dishonest and misleading, or you are very uninformed and don't care to research properly.

[JohnDoe]

Sure, change the scope of things when you start losing the argument! LOL

The 2 trillion quote was PROJECTED and we are discussing what is currently being spent on the war. And I didn't think the list was too overly complicated for you but maybe I overestimated your comprehension. If you look again, you'll see a LOT more on that list than just schools and infrastructure. Any idea what goes into the intelligence, weaponry, logistics & everything else to do battle with terrorists to kill and/or capture them? What about healthcare, any idea how much was invested in starting to help them develop proper healthcare for their people? And their economy, did you forget about that? How much of the money gets funneled into loans for them to get their economy rolling, banks started and global economy connected? The judicial system, what about the costs to get that back in a fair working manner? What about the money poured into their hospital systems (yes, I know part of the healthcare) to avail them to be able to appropriately pay and attain decent doctors and surgeons?

You're being extremely dishonest if you think a TON of the money we spend isn't being spent directly on the Iraqi people and their country. And yes, an awful lot is also being spent directly on our military and contractors too. But to insinuate that only 1% of the total spending thus far in Iraq has been towards the people and their country is completely dishonest and misleading, or you are very uninformed and don't care to research properly.

so jim, is 4% better... using the figures against what we have allocated to the iraq war SO FAR?

you have no right to call me dishonest jim....a very wormlike low tactic, don't you think?

is 4% alot? and just so you know, MORE than 25% of that money went missing.... and also could not be accounted for in physical attributes....

and no, i usually don't speak up or debate an argument without the time spent on reading about it...honestly i don't.... i am a research fanatic....and too insecure to speak on topics that i have not researched or at least read something about....:cheers2: i don't like sticking my foot in my mouth, it doesn't feel or taste good to me so i try not to do it!!!!!

doen't mean that i haven't tasted that shoe leather from time to time, cuz i have!!!!

jd

[jimnyc]

so jim, is 4% better... using the figures against what we have allocated to the iraq war SO FAR?

And how exactly have you determined the percentage of money spent that went towards the things listed compared to what was used militarily?


you have no right to call me dishonest jim....a very wormlike low tactic, don't you think?You make up figures out of thin air, I state it's dishonest, and you want to refer to me as "wormlike" in return? Let me give you a heads up - you DO NOT want to get into a pissing match with me. I will shred you up, spit you out, and laugh while you whine and quit the board at how vicious I can be. So how's about you save your petty insults for when they are deserved?


is 4% alot? and just so you know, MORE than 25% of that money went missing.... and also could not be accounted for in physical attributes....Link me to exactly where you are getting your breakdown of the funds from...


and no, i usually don't speak up or debate an argument without the time spent on reading about it...honestly i don't.... i am a research fanatic....and too insecure to speak on topics that i have not researched or at least read something about....:cheers2: i don't like sticking my foot in my mouth, it doesn't feel or taste good to me so i try not to do it!!!!!Then this must mean you've done a lot of research to come up with your 4% figure - please share with the class your formula and extensive data used to come up with it.


doen't mean that i haven't tasted that shoe leather from time to time, cuz i have!!!!

jdNo offense, but I think the chewing on the leather is getting to you right now, but just tossing out percentages with no backup won't make the taste any better.

[JohnDoe]

And another thing Jim, it is already taking the patience of an angel to manuever through your site on dial up, 1 minute or two between a page move, with the slow ass dial up that I have up here in Maine.... let alone trying to open up and read 10 or more links for research...

[jimnyc]

I'll go ahead an pro-actively apologize for my attitude in my last post, but it's frustrating to spend so much time invested in a post and research only to have someone spend 2 minutes throwing numbers out that seem to be out of thin air, and call my debating "wormlike".

I'm bowing out as I don't like to see myself "lose it" over a silly debate, cause I know I'm better than that. But if anyone feels money is being "wasted" in Iraq, they are a bit misinformed. A little research is all it takes to see how much money we are investing in their future and how much progress has been made for the Iraqi people but some would rather just stick to discussing death and destruction and ignore anything positive, generally for political reasons.

[JohnDoe]

And how exactly have you determined the percentage of money spent that went towards the things listed compared to what was used militarily?

You make up figures out of thin air, I state it's dishonest, and you want to refer to me as "wormlike" in return? Let me give you a heads up - you DO NOT want to get into a pissing match with me. I will shred you up, spit you out, and laugh while you whine and quit the board at how vicious I can be. So how's about you save your petty insults for when they are deserved?

Link me to exactly where you are getting your breakdown of the funds from...

Then this must mean you've done a lot of research to come up with your 4% figure - please share with the class your formula and extensive data used to come up with it.

No offense, but I think the chewing on the leather is getting to you right now, but just tossing out percentages with no backup won't make the taste any better.

the 4% comes from what you wanted, a percentage of what we have spent in iraq up to date.... not projected....I used a 500 billion figure, and used the high 20 billion as what was spent...20 billion in to 500 billion is 4%.

Jim...what cha doing tonight, just hanging out here like me? Friiday night ain't the time to get in to a fight with you....I don't want to....

this thread is about the 5k proposal of Clinton's FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.
And is near nil COMPARED to the cost of this war.... THAT was my point and YOU tried to say that ALL of this money was for the GOOD of the iraqis, because of all of these wonderful things you had posted that we did for the Iraqi people... I THEN pointed out that all those wonderful things did NOT cost too much out of the overall money we have spent there....then it became prove this and prove that thread....

This is where we stand regarding the topic of this thread, right?

jd

[JohnDoe]

Your debating was not wormlike, below the earth.... your comment on calling me dishonest was below the ground....low...

that being said... I accept your apology! and If I was wormlike back, please accept mine!!!!

:)

jd

[manu1959]

5k per baby...the poor are going to pumping them out like a pez dipenser......

[JohnDoe]

and you did some great research Jim, I am starting on it...it should be a new thread, cuz it does not have to do with this thread about Clinton and her 5k...it deserves it's own thread....cuz of your research and the time spent on it!!!

Also, I don't even agree with Clinton on this proposal... I only read about another country contemplating it, and unless this money is directly in an account that the gvt does not control in any manner, other than requesting it be put in to something that can not be gotten at for alchohol and cigs for the parents and the such... or by the gvt itself, and that this money guarantees no pell grants down the road, or no socialized medical care for those over 18 down the road or something else that could be cut in future expenses that would more than pay for the plan, it is not worth even considering.

[JohnDoe]

5k per baby...the poor are going to pumping them out like a pez dipenser...... that was the plan.

That was the "plan" of this country that was contemplating it a couple of years back, that I read about.... I wish I could remember who it was and who the article was from, but I can't..... :(

they wanted and needed more tax payers to fund their boomer's retirement...was one of the reasons for their proposal....

their birth rate had dropped drastically.

I thought, wow, talk about social engineering of the govt, I remember this feeling or those thoughts from the time of reading about it...

[hjmick]

that was the plan.

That was the "plan" of this country that was contemplating it a couple of years back, that I read about.... I wish I could remember who it was and who the article was from, but I can't..... :(

they wanted and needed more tax payers to fund their boomer's retirement...was one of the reasons for their proposal....

their birth rate had dropped drastically.

I thought, wow, talk about social engineering of the govt, I remember this feeling or those thoughts from the time of reading about it...

Try this: Babies: Russian governor encourages the concept (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/world/bal-te.russia16sep16,0,2552529.story)