controversial opinion piece by new york times, agree or disagree and why?

[actsnoblemartin]

Op-Ed Columnist
9/11 Is Over

By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
Published: September 30, 2007
Not long ago, the satirical newspaper The Onion ran a fake news story that began like this:

“At a well-attended rally in front of his new ground zero headquarters Monday, former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani officially announced his plan to run for president of 9/11. ‘My fellow citizens of 9/11, today I will make you a promise,’ said Giuliani during his 18-minute announcement speech in front of a charred and torn American flag. ‘As president of 9/11, I will usher in a bold new 9/11 for all.’ If elected, Giuliani would inherit the duties of current 9/11 President George W. Bush, including making grim facial expressions, seeing the world’s conflicts in terms of good and evil, and carrying a bullhorn at all state functions.”

Like all good satire, the story made me both laugh and cry, because it reflected something so true — how much, since 9/11, we’ve become “The United States of Fighting Terrorism.” Times columnists are not allowed to endorse candidates, but there’s no rule against saying who will not get my vote: I will not vote for any candidate running on 9/11. We don’t need another president of 9/11. We need a president for 9/12. I will only vote for the 9/12 candidate.

What does that mean? This: 9/11 has made us stupid. I honor, and weep for, all those murdered on that day. But our reaction to 9/11 — mine included — has knocked America completely out of balance, and it is time to get things right again.

It is not that I thought we had new enemies that day and now I don’t. Yes, in the wake of 9/11, we need new precautions, new barriers. But we also need our old habits and sense of openness. For me, the candidate of 9/12 is the one who will not only understand who our enemies are, but who we are.

Before 9/11, the world thought America’s slogan was: “Where anything is possible for anybody.” But that is not our global brand anymore. Our government has been exporting fear, not hope: “Give me your tired, your poor and your fingerprints.”

You may think Guantánamo Bay is a prison camp in Cuba for Al Qaeda terrorists. A lot of the world thinks it’s a place we send visitors who don’t give the right answers at immigration. I will not vote for any candidate who is not committed to dismantling Guantánamo Bay and replacing it with a free field hospital for poor Cubans. Guantánamo Bay is the anti-Statue of Liberty.

Roger Dow, president of the Travel Industry Association, told me that the United States has lost millions of overseas visitors since 9/11 — even though the dollar is weak and America is on sale. “Only the U.S. is losing traveler volume among major countries, which is unheard of in today’s world,” Mr. Dow said.

Total business arrivals to the United States fell by 10 percent over the 2004-5 period alone, while the number of business visitors to Europe grew by 8 percent in that time. The travel industry’s recent Discover America Partnership study concluded that “the U.S. entry process has created a climate of fear and frustration that is turning away foreign business and leisure travelers and hurting America’s image abroad.” Those who don’t visit us, don’t know us.

I’d love to see us salvage something decent in Iraq that might help tilt the Middle East onto a more progressive pathway. That was and is necessary to improve our security. But sometimes the necessary is impossible — and we just can’t keep chasing that rainbow this way.

Look at our infrastructure. It’s not just the bridge that fell in my hometown, Minneapolis. Fly from Zurich’s ultramodern airport to La Guardia’s dump. It is like flying from the Jetsons to the Flintstones. I still can’t get uninterrupted cellphone service between my home in Bethesda and my office in D.C. But I recently bought a pocket cellphone at the Beijing airport and immediately called my wife in Bethesda — crystal clear.

I just attended the China clean car conference, where Chinese automakers were boasting that their 2008 cars will meet “Euro 4” — European Union — emissions standards. We used to be the gold standard. We aren’t anymore. Last July, Microsoft, fed up with American restrictions on importing brain talent, opened its newest software development center in Vancouver. That’s in Canada, folks. If Disney World can remain an open, welcoming place, with increased but invisible security, why can’t America?

We can’t afford to keep being this stupid! We have got to get our groove back. We need a president who will unite us around a common purpose, not a common enemy. Al Qaeda is about 9/11. We are about 9/12, we are about the Fourth of July — which is why I hope that anyone who runs on the 9/11 platform gets trounced.

[Gaffer]

Disagree.

It's a stick our heads in the sand and pretend nothing happened article. He doesn't want a 9/12 candidate, he wants a 9/10 candidate.

[avatar4321]

People who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Sadly, those who do learn from history are doomed to repeat it because they are surrounded by pepole who fail to learn from it and the dumb actions of even a few people can have negative consequences for the rest.

They idea that somehow the way to deal with terrorism is to return to the 9/10 mentality rather than to actually win the war on terror is the fantasy of those who dont want to admit 9/11 really happened and want to return to the illusion of the 90s. And because of them, future attacks are inevitable.

[retiredman]

Tom Friedman is, and has always been, a brilliant man.

[Gaffer]

Tom Friedman is, and has always been, a brilliant man.

And a liberal leftie pundit.

[Sir Evil]

What can be agreed to in this piece is that too much is being hinged on 911, unfortunately I think the writer is unamware that the dems have been making their livng off it ever since. Unfortunately many fail to see that to begin with.

[truthmatters]

There is only 911 and nothing else.

We need to throw away the calendar and have all days just called 911+1 , 911+2 and so on.

We will never be able to see anything but burning towers when we close our eyes to sleep.

The only way to feel safe ever again is to live in constant fear of a re911ing of our 911worlds.

I think man kind needs to make sure we live in 911 if we ever want to have 911peace ever again 911.

[Sir Evil]

There is only 911 and nothing else.

We need to throw away the calendar and have all days just called 911+1 , 911+2 and so on.

We will never be able to see anything but burning towers when we close our eyes to sleep.

The only way to feel safe ever again is to live in constant fear of a re911ing of our 911worlds.

I think man kind needs to make sure we live in 911 if we ever want to have 911peace ever again 911.

Keep praying for the truth, the dems will more than likely deliver on this one.

[avatar4321]

There is only 911 and nothing else.

We need to throw away the calendar and have all days just called 911+1 , 911+2 and so on.

We will never be able to see anything but burning towers when we close our eyes to sleep.

The only way to feel safe ever again is to live in constant fear of a re911ing of our 911worlds.

I think man kind needs to make sure we live in 911 if we ever want to have 911peace ever again 911.

sighs. you realize that life changing events usually change your life for life dont you? One doesnt have to relive it everyday to remember the lessons from it. Something you obviously never learned.

[retiredman]

And a liberal leftie pundit.

you obviously don't read much. (hardly a surprise!)

he was totally supportive of the invasion of Iraq.

[red states rule]

What a surprise, another liberal moonbat who says Americans need to get over 9-11

[Gaffer]

you obviously don't read much. (hardly a surprise!)

he was totally supportive of the invasion of Iraq.

I didn't see anything in the article supporting the invasion of iraq.

[red states rule]

I didn't see anything in the article supporting the invasion of iraq.

You are correct

From the op-ed:

9/11 has made us stupid. I honor, and weep for, all those murdered on that day. But our reaction to 9/11 — mine included — has knocked America completely out of balance, and it is time to get things right again.


To him, if you want to win the war on terror - you are stupid

[Gaffer]

You are correct

From the op-ed:

9/11 has made us stupid. I honor, and weep for, all those murdered on that day. But our reaction to 9/11 — mine included — has knocked America completely out of balance, and it is time to get things right again.


To him, if you want to win the war on terror - you are stupid

That's what I got from it too. I even reread it and it said the same thing it did the first time. Imagine that.

[red states rule]

That's what I got from it too. I even reread it and it said the same thing it did the first time. Imagine that.

you have a firm grasp on the obvious - unlike MM

[actsnoblemartin]

Im not going to deny his brilliance, but the article is confusing. Is he trying to forget 9/11, not obsess over it, what?

I have trouble reading large amounts of info, a.d.d. attention deficit disorder.


you obviously don't read much. (hardly a surprise!)

he was totally supportive of the invasion of Iraq.

[red states rule]

Im not going to deny his brilliance, but the article is confusing. Is he trying to forget 9/11, not obsess over it, what?

I have trouble reading large amounts of info, a.d.d. attention deficit disorder.

He is a proud liberal who thinks surrender and appeasemnt will make the terrrorists stop hating us

[retiredman]

Im not going to deny his brilliance, but the article is confusing. Is he trying to forget 9/11, not obsess over it, what?

I have trouble reading large amounts of info, a.d.d. attention deficit disorder.
I was going to tell you that Tom Friedman, who fully supported the invasion of Iraq, by the way, was merely suggesting that we cannot define ourselves by 9/11. America is a great and wonderful country and we should not be just about fighting a war on terror, when we really need to be proactively exporting our ideas and our ideology by means other than military force.

but your hero RSR stepped in with another of his canned and oh so boring knee jerk sound bite limbaugh talking point answers...and I know you consider RSR to be "great".....so you go with his response. It certainly fits your mindset better.

[red states rule]

I was going to tell you that Tom Friedman, who fully supported the invasion of Iraq, by the way, was merely suggesting that we cannot define ourselves by 9/11. America is a great and wonderful country and we should not be just about fighting a war on terror, when we really need to be proactively exporting our ideas and our ideology by means other than military force.

but your hero RSR stepped in with another of his canned and oh so boring knee jerk sound bite limbaugh talking point answers...and I know you consider RSR to be "great".....so you go with his response. It certainly fits your mindset better.

Still waving the white flag I see

[retiredman]

Still waving the white flag I see

have you ever read any of Tom Friedman's books?

[red states rule]

have you ever read any of Tom Friedman's books?

I know he is a koom leftie who wants higher taxes, and appeasement to terrorists

If I want to read his books just read the NY Times front page and his op-eds, and save the money

[retiredman]

I have known Tom Friedman since our days in Beirut.... I have read ALL of his books.

Just answer my question: have YOU read any of his books?

a simple yes or no, devoid of typical RSR tapdancing, would be sufficient.

[red states rule]

I have known Tom Friedman since our days in Beirut.... I have read ALL of his books.

Just answer my question: have YOU read any of his books?

a simple yes or no, devoid of typical RSR tapdancing, would be sufficient.

I am not surprised - birds of a feather........

I did answer your question - try reading very slowly

[retiredman]

If you have not read his books, how can you be so sure you know his stance on issues?

birds of a feather?

oh yeah...I suppose us brave ones do flock to danger while you cowardly armchair general yellow bellied chickenhawks sit back in your trailer parks and insult us. I met Friedman in BEIRUT... back when the place was alive with armed conflict. He has more courage in his little toe than you have ever possessed.

[red states rule]

If you have not read his books, how can you be so sure you know his stance on issues?

birds of a feather?

oh yeah...I suppose us brave ones do flock to danger while you cowardly armchair general yellow bellied chickenhawks sit back in your trailer parks and insult us. I met Friedman in BEIRUT... back when the place was alive with armed conflict. He has more courage in his little toe than you have ever possessed.

I have seen him on the liberal talk shows - and I have read where he openly hoped for $100/bl oil

He is just like you MM - a left wing nutjob who hopes for bad news for America so it will help his political party

[retiredman]

so...it is clear that you have never read Tom Friedman's books.... that is really all I wanted to know. Your otherwise uninformed opinion of him - or me - is really not worth a bucket of warm spit.

[Nukeman]

I was going to tell you that Tom Friedman, who fully supported the invasion of Iraq, by the way, was merely suggesting that we cannot define ourselves by 9/11. America is a great and wonderful country and we should not be just about fighting a war on terror, when we really need to be proactively exporting our ideas and our ideology by means other than military force.

.

I can't believe I'm saying this but I do agree with MFM. We as a nation do need to go back to our core values. We can not be defined exclusively by 9/11. We really need to work on our diplomacy with othe countries we can not just carry the proverbial "big stick" without first speaking softly....


the part I bolded is spot on and couldnt agree more..

[red states rule]

so...it is clear that you have never read Tom Friedman's books.... that is really all I wanted to know. Your otherwise uninformed opinion of him - or me - is really not worth a bucket of warm spit.

I have his acutal words to go by

Example 1:


In A Yugo? Friedman Hoping For $100-A-Barrel Crude
By Mark Finkelstein | April 19, 2006 - 08:02 ET
On this morning's Today show, NY Times foreign affairs columnist Thomas Friedman repeated his astonishing wish that the price of crude oil . . . go to $100/barrel ASAP. This is apparently a favorite Friedman mantra, as NewsBusters/MRC's Tim Graham and Brian Boyd have noted.

Friedman's theory is that extremely high oil prices are desirable because they would induce behavioral changes that would ultimately decrease demand and force oil prices way down. Here's how the exchange with host Matt Lauer unfolded:

Friedman: "I hope the Iranians get as crazy as they want. My attitude toward the president of Iran is 'you go, girl', because the faster we get to $100 a barrel, pal, the quicker we're going to get back to $20. Because when we go to $100/barrel, then you're going to see all these people change their behavior and their oil-buying habits and their car-buying habits in a fundamental way."

Lauer: "So you're saying in the short term you'd rather see a nuclear Iran and crazy oil prices because in the long term that's going to fix the problem?"

Friedman: "I would like to see crazy oil prices. A nuclear Iran is another question. But from my point of view the sooner we get the price of oil up where we changed everyone's behavior, the sooner the price of oil is going to come down and then we can say to the Iranians, 'hey, do whatever you want, pal.'"

Beyond the tremendous pain that $100 oil would inflict on billons of people in the short run, Friedman's analysis is fundamentally flawed, because he views market reactions as static rather than dynamic.

Let's assume Friedman's right, that $100 crude would quickly bring about huge responses in car-buying habits, etc. that drove prices down to $20. Once that happened, consumers would look around and say, 'hey, why am I sitting in this Yugo [or whatever it would be] with my legs crammed into my chest when gas is 99 cents a gallon? Honey, we're getting that Hummer!' And oil prices would start their climb back upwards.

Markets are dynamic, and find find dynamic equilibriums. There are no permanent shifts. Friedman is tacitly assuming that $100 oil would not only bring about changes driving oil down to $20, but that demand for oil at $20 would remain about the same as it was at $100. That is obviously wrong.

Beyond his flawed economics, Friedman reveals an even more fundamental flaw of elitist liberal thinking: the desire to change people's economic behavior to suit the elites' world view. This is the modern liberal version of central planning. It's the same thinking behind Hillary's famous line: "we're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good."

Friedman would be better off sticking to his foreign-affairs knitting, leaving the economics to the experts and leaving people to make their own economic decisions about their lives.

http://www.newsbusters.org/node/4970



Not that facts ever mattered to you MM

[retiredman]

what does Friedman's position on our addiction to oil have to do with the fact that he supported the war in Iraq? where would you get the idea that his thoughts on oil prices are indicative of liberal attitudes or of your suggestion that he is for appeasement and surrender?

[red states rule]

what does Friedman's position on our addiction to oil have to do with the fact that he supported the war in Iraq? where would you get the idea that his thoughts on oil prices are indicative of liberal attitudes or of your suggestion that he is for appeasement and surrender?

He is a typical moonbat liberal who appeals to other moonbat liberals.

He is now for surrender and appeasement and for anyone to call those of us who have not "gotten over" 9-11 as stupid - speaks clearly what his beliefs are

[retiredman]

now...if you could show me where he is now for surrender and appeasement, that would be real nice.

bring links where Friedman uses those words, or stay home

[red states rule]

NYT's Friedman on ABC: Iraq Insurgency 'Defeating the U.S. Military' for Years
By Megan McCormack
New York Times columnist Thomas Friedman declared that the insurgency in Iraq has been defeating the U.S. military for the past four years during an interview Wednesday with Good Morning America’s Diane Sawyer. While making the argument that there is no "two to three year" solution for the violence occuring in Iraq, Friedman declared victory for the insurgents:

Thomas Friedman: "...I don't believe myself that there's a two to three year solution where we just train a few more troops. The issue isn't training, Diane. After all, who's training the insurgents? Nobody. They're doing just fine. They've basically been defeating the U.S. military for the last four years."


Friedman also seemed to indicate that the reason Saddam Hussein was an "iron-fisted dictator," was not necessarily because of who Hussein is as a person, but because of "the way Iraq is":

Friedman: "You know, before the war began, Diane, I, I wrote a column in which I said, you know, the big question about Iraq is that, is Iraq the way it is because Saddam was the way Saddam was or was Saddam the way Saddam was, this, you know, iron-fisted dictator, because Iraq was the way Iraq is? You know, I was hopeful that it was the former, but it's turning out to be a lot closer to the latter.


While Friedman criticized many of the newly-released Iraq Study Group recommendations as "either unnecessary or impossible," he championed the ISG’s suggestion that the Americans and Iraqis meet with Iran and Syria to discuss potential solutions. Sawyer fretted over whether Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad would offer his country’s assistance to quell the violence in Iraq:

Sawyer: "But, Tom, a lot of people are saying that you can get to the insurgents and, again, Iran and Syria are the way to do it, our adversaries. It does strike me as an irony that these people in Iran, Ahmadinejad, we say, ‘you're the axis of evil, but would you come in and help us out of here?’ Will he help? Could he help? What could he do?"


Friedman argued that by declaring its intention to withdraw from Iraq, leaving Iran to deal with its troubled neighbor, the U.S. could gain leverage over Ahmadinejad:

Friedman: "Yeah. Well, I think he, he might help under one condition, Diane, that we tell him we're leaving. You see, right now we have no leverage over them. Basically, you know, they've got us over a barrel. And I think the only way we're going to have any leverage on them is simply to say, we are going, ok, which part of that sentence don't you understand? We are leaving. And that means you, Ahmadinejad, are going to inherit the chaos in southern Iraq, have a nice day. Only when you really face them with that choice, I think, will you get them off the dime."


Sawyer asked Friedman if it was a victory for America’s enemies if the U.S. withdrew from Iraq:

Sawyer: "But do our enemies, Ahmadinejad and the Iranians, win if we let them inherit that day?"

Friedman: "They sure do win. They, they win Iraq. What is second prize, Diane?"


The Times columnist sounded dour when asked by Sawyer for his prediction of the future for Iraq:

Friedman: "Basically, I'm not really optimistic. You know, before the war began, Diane, I, I wrote a column in which I said, you know, the big question about Iraq is that, is Iraq the way it is because Saddam was the way Saddam was or was Saddam the way Saddam was, this, you know, iron-fisted dictator, because Iraq was the way Iraq is? You know, I was hopeful that it was the former, but it's turning out to be a lot closer to the latter."


Sawyer took note of Friedman’s defeatist attitude and bleak outlook for Iraq during her conclusion of the 7:05 am interview:

Sawyer: "All right. Thanks a lot, Thomas Friedman, for being with us this morning. Always good to hear what you have to say. If it's not hopeful, it's still good to hear what you have to say."


http://www.newsbusters.org/node/9487

[retiredman]

don't see "appeasement". don't see "surrender".

can't you follow simple instructions? LOL

[red states rule]

don't see "appeasement". don't see "surrender".

can't you follow simple instructions? LOL


Like I said, facts mean little to you

Example # 2


NYT's Tom Friedman: America Goes It Alone, Shames Statue Of Liberty
By Michael Rule |
On this Sunday’s "Face the Nation" on CBS, Bob Schieffer once again turned to New York Times columnist Thomas Friedman for analysis on developments in Iraq, the overall war on terrorism, and the Israel/Palestinian peace process.

Among the claims Friedman made were claiming that the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay was the "anti-Statue of Liberty." That America is alone in Iraq, discounting the contributions by the British and other coalition partners. And that he doesn’t "really want to blame America" for the inability of the Israelis and Palestinians to come to a workable peace agreement.

Friedman began by seemingly eulogizing Zarqawi. He focused on how effective Zarqawi was as a terrorist, but doesn’t offer praise to our troops or thanks that he has been removed from the equation in Iraq:

"Yeah, I mean, I think that al-Qaeda's saying, `Well, we'll replace him, no problem.' This guy was good, Bob. He was a first team all-star terrorist. He eluded the US military for three years and carried on some of the most wanton acts of violence not only in Iraq, but the whole Middle East. So he was good. Guys like him don't fall on, off trees."

And even if Friedman does believe Zarqawi being gone is good, he notes it may not have happened in time. That is, Zarqawi’s philosophy, may be prevailing:

"But here's the really big question, and this is what worries me this morning: Zarqawi is dead, but has Zarqawiism been so unleashed in Iraq that we've, that we can't get it back? Now, what was Zarqawiism? What was his whole strategy? His whole strategy was to use the most unspeakable violence to trigger a civil war between Sunnis and Shiites. He was a Sunni and he tried to basically kill as many Shiites as he could. And now what we've got in Iraq while he's dead, the legacy of his strategy, boy, you just read the headlines this morning, is still alive and well."

Friedman seems to believe Iraq is already a lost cause. However, contrast this analysis with coverage earlier in the program from CBS News correspondent Elizabeth Palmer, who reported from Baghdad and conveyed a message containing glimmers of hope that Zarqawi’s death could bring Sunnis back into the fold and noted the progress of the training of Iraq’s security forces:

"Overall, people are happy, especially the Shia, against whom he (Zarqawi) had declared war. Cautiously happy, most of the moderate Sunnis as well. The key, of course, is how the hardline Sunnis are going to react, and whether the Sunni-led insurgency in Al Anbar Province and north of the city are going to react. Whether now with the loss of Zarqawi they're going to be free to, to abandon their allegiance to these foreign fighters, and maybe begin to respond to the outreach program being run by the Iraqi government, saying, `Come on, join us, there's more in, in, in it for you to join the reconciliation project, you'll be rewarded, you will get your share of power, than there is in staying on the outside as bandits pursued by not only the coalition forces, but also the, all the forces of the Iraqi state,' which are growing in sophistication and discipline and numbers weekly."

Friedman went on to proclaim the U.S. is alone in the endeavor in Iraq:

"...And we're so alone there. It's not like we're there with the Arab League, with the UN, with the Europeans. And so, that to me, is the question. I know what the struggle is ahead, but we're so alone right now."

At last glance, there were more than 20 other nations also participating in the mission in Iraq providing troops, supplies and other types of support such as medical assistance. We’re not alone Mr. Friedman, as much as you may want to portray it as such to the public, it is just not so.

Later, Friedman and Schieffer discussed the Guantanamo Bay detention facility, in particular the suicides that occurred over the weekend there:

"Guantanamo Bay, another headline that nobody wants to see in the papers this morning. Now we have prisoners committing suicide there, and people are saying this was some sort of a political act. This was not something that these people did out of desperation, but to, as a political act, like these suicide bombers. What, what are we going to do about Guantanamo?"

Friedman used the opportunity to liken Guantanamo Bay to Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq:

"Well, I believed we should've torn it down a long time ago, along with Abu Ghraib. And in Abu Ghraib's place, we should've built a hospital. Guantanamo Bay, Bob, has become the anti-Statue of Liberty."

The Statue of Liberty was seen as a symbol of hope for immigrants coming here legally who were trying to create a better life for themselves, and in the process make America a better place. Guantanamo Bay is a camp for illegal enemy combatants who have tried to do America harm. Is there an inscription on the Statue of Liberty that says "give me your terrorist extremists dedicated to destroying America?" If so, referring to Guantanamo Bay as the "anti-Statue of Liberty" may be apt. Otherwise, it seems somewhat foolhardy.

Finally, Friedman seemed to admit that he is generally a member of the blame America first crowd. In discussing the mid-east peace process and the road blocks that have been erected, Friedman cut the United States a break:

"You know, it's--I don't really want to blame the United States on this one."

What does this mean? Does he blame the United States anyway, even though he doesn’t want to? And if he doesn’t blame the US for "this" then what is he blaming America for?

http://www.newsbusters.org/node/5843

[retiredman]

don't see "appeasement". don't see "surrender".

can't you follow simple instructions? LOL

duh

[red states rule]

duh

Exmple # 3


'Today' Hypes Tom Friedman's Peace Through Green Strategy
By Geoffrey Dickens | April 16, 2007 - 15:55 ET
New York Times columnist Tom Friedman was at it again, pushing his peace in the Middle East through environmentalism strategy. Invited on this morning's Today show to promote his upcoming Discovery Channel documentary called Green: The New Red, White and Blue, Friedman claimed one of the best ways to promote democracy in Iraq was to bring down the price of oil through energy saving green technology. Friedman also repeated his clarion call to retake the meaning of the word green from conservatives when NBC's Matt Lauer tossed the following softball to him:

Lauer: "Yeah and you say it's time to stop thinking about the green movement as tree-huggers and sissies. This is tough domestic and foreign policy."

Friedman: "Well what I've been out to try to do in my column and this magazine piece and now this documentary on Discovery is to redefine green because green was really defined for many years, in my view, by its opponents and they defined it 'liberal,' 'tree-hugging,' 'sissy,' 'girly-man,' 'unpatriotic,' 'vaguely French.' Okay? And what I'm really, been trying to do is re-define it, rename it patriotic, capitalistic, geo-strategic, really the most important thing we can do and be as a country today."


The following are a couple of the greenie-sounding teases and then the full segment as it occurred on the April 16th Today show:

[8:31am]

Matt Lauer: "Also ahead we're gonna take a look at a new documentary that argues that one of the best ways you can support the red, white and blue is by going green. We're gonna talk to award-winning columnist Tom Friedman from the New York Times about that documentary."

Matt Lauer: "You know you hear a lot about the greening of America these days from Al Gore's Oscar win to hybrid cars. Now even big business is getting on board. Companies like Wal-Mart and Google and you can too. It's not just trendy it's patriotic. It's the message behind a new documentary called Green: The New Red, White and Blue reported by New York Times columnist Thomas Friedman. Tom good morning, good to see you."

[On screen headline: "Going Green, Friedman On USA In The World."]

Thomas Friedman, New York Times: "Great to be with you Matt, thanks."

Lauer: "I want to talk about this green idea in a second and, and kind of tie it in to this other subject I want to talk to you about and that's Iraq. It's been a tough week there. Four bombs over the weekend killing about 45 people. We had the suicide bomber last week blowing himself up in a cafeteria near parliament and yet we're hearing the surge is working. What's your take on this?"

Friedman: "To me Matt there's only one metric for the surge working and that is whether we're seeing a negotiation among Iraqis to share power, to stabilize the political situation in Iraq which only they can do. And right now I don't see that. Maybe it's happening in private, maybe it's happening, you know, in places I can't hear or touch. But right now I don't see that. So telling me that the violence is down 10 percent or eight percent here or 12 percent there, I don't really think that's the metric at all."

Lauer: "Kind, kind of a wakeup call over the weekend also, Tom, or actually at the end of last week, Senator John McCain running for president, supporting the war, supporting the surge said, 'By the way if this does not work I don't know of a plan B.' And I'm trying to think of a time in American foreign policy where we didn't have a Plan B. How, what's your take on that?"

Friedman: "You know there's a, there is, there's a lot of truth to that Matt in the sense that there, if this doesn't work there is no really good option because the only option then is to either pull out or pull back from Iraq and basically let the parties fight it out and hopefully you reach some kind of equilibrium that way that will be self-sustaining but-"

Lauer: "In fact you think that actually a threat to pull out might get the parties to move forward on the, on the political compromise and solution that we're looking for."

Friedman: "Exactly, you know my point Matt has been that right now what's worrying me and what's been worrying me for awhile is that our vision of Iraq, a pluralistic united Iraq is everybody's second choice. It's the Shiites would prefer an Iraq they dominate, pro-Iranian. The Sunnis, the return to the old regime, the Kurds, their own separate Iraq. And we can't have our first choice kids dying for their second choice. That's just not on. At some point we've got to set a deadline and tell everyone if that is your preference-"

Lauer: "Right."

Friedman: "-you're gonna have to pay retail for that position not wholesale any more."

Lauer: "This, this other subject the greening of America and, and the corporate involvement. You say these two, you cannot separate these two things. That, that important in trying to democratize the Middle East is a different energy outlook here in the United States."

Friedman: "Well my feeling has always been, you know, people don't change Matt when you tell them they should. They change when they tell themselves they must. And I believe you really only get mass democratizing change in that part of the world when they can no longer rely on, on oil when they actually have to open their economies, educate their young people and really globalize with the world and that's why bringing down the price of oil I think is one of the best ways to do that."

Lauer: "In your documentary you visit some big companies that are taking big steps, Google, Wal-Mart, what lessons can we all learn from what they're trying to accomplish?"

Friedman: "Well I think that the message I'm trying to convey is that the biggest challenge for our kids Matt are three things: jobs, temperature and terrorism. And what's exciting about what companies are doing now is that they're understanding that green really is profitable. That it's actually a way to save money and beat the competition. When you think about it, Matt, it's really simple. To make a car, an appliance or a home greener you have to make it smarter. Well to make it smarter that's what we specialize in. Knowledge, high technology, not cheap labor. So this is also a way to build good jobs that can't be outsourced."

Lauer: "Yeah and you say it's time to stop thinking about the green movement as tree-huggers and sissies. This is tough domestic and foreign policy."

Friedman: "Well what I've been out to try to do in my column and this magazine piece and now this documentary on Discovery is to redefine green because green was really defined for many years, in my view, by its opponents and they defined it 'liberal,' 'tree-hugging,' 'sissy,' 'girly-man,' 'unpatriotic,' 'vaguely French.' Okay? And what I'm really, been trying to do is re-define it, rename it patriotic, capitalistic, geo-strategic, really the most important thing we can do and be as a country today."

Lauer: "And the documentary is called Green: The New Red, White and Blue. It airs Saturday at 9pm Eastern and Pacific on the Discovery Channel. Tom Friedman, always good to see ya."

Friedman: "Thanks Matt."

http://www.newsbusters.org/node/12070


MM, No wonder you love this nut - he talks just like you

[retiredman]

example of what? you made the claim that friedman was for appeasement and surrender and you have failed to provide any proof of that assertion.

please quit spamming this thread with irrelevant shit. answer the question or run the fuck away.

[red states rule]

example of what? you made the claim that friedman was for appeasement and surrender and you have failed to provide any proof of that assertion.

please quit spamming this thread with irrelevant shit. answer the question or run the fuck away.

As usual, irrelevant shit is the actual words of Mr Freidman that blwo your dfense of him out of the water

[retiredman]

no appeasement no surrender. Friedman has never supported either. you cannot blow that fact out of the water...all you can do is muddy the water with spam.

[red states rule]

So Tom wants to free Al Qaeda terrorists and snuggle up to Castro is not surrender and appeasement?

Perhaps it is not to a liberal moonbat like you - but to the rest of us it is

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,

1. This Friedman is a traitor.
2. Give him death.
3. Of course after a speedy trial.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[red states rule]

Sorry bout that,

1. This Friedman is a traitor.
2. Give him death.
3. Of course after a speedy trial.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

I would not go that far, but he is a good example of the type of people that make up the liberal media and the NY Times - the offical publisher of the daily DNC talking points

[bluestatesrule]

Are people on the right interested in results....or justifying the war in Iraq? No we should not forget 911....that is just as important as Pearl Harbor...and Pearl Harbor guided out military policy for 50 years. I agree with those who say that if you do not follow history they are doomed to repeat it! Speaking of history....let's look at the facts....it was under the democratic leadership that the folowinging happened....

1. Brought the draft back in 1940....we went from having the worlds 17th largest army to an additional one-million men under arms. The republicans fought this tooth and nail. In fact in the republican presidential race was centered around the campaign the "very liberal Roosevelt is leading us to war". The specific campaign promise was that the republican party would keep us out the war.

2. In 1941....right before Pearl Harbor....there was another vote in congress to renew the draft for another year....the republicans campaigned heavily to defeat this...it was a dark day in American history...almost....it did not look good....but a miracle happened....it survived by one vote....thank God because Pearl Harbor was hit several weeks later....we were already in bad shape....had the democrats not fought so hard to get the draft and maintain it....God knows what would have happened.

3. I failed to mention that Roosevelt guided us through the great depression. I did not say got us over the great depression...but he provided excellent leadership...and got the country moving again. People loved him and respected him. He was not perfect...and some of his ideas were a little crazy....but he was just trying to find solutions. The do-nothing republican congress and President before him...caused membership in the American Communist party to triple by 1932....after Roosevelt took office...the communists almost closed shop

4. Roosevelt did an excellent job of running WWII...yes he had to fight the republican party tooth and nail over appropriations....even funding for the so-called "secret weapon"...which turned out to be the atomic bomb....

5. It was under Roosevelts direction that the ground work for unconditional surrender from the Germans and Japanese was set...and also plans for the United Nations.

6. It was under Truman that the CIA was established....

7. It was under the Dems that the Marshall Plan was launched that saved both Europe and Japan from utter hell, and communist rule. I could go on and on.

No....I think we liberals and democrats...have done our fair share for this country...and we were here from the very beginning and we are not going away. Invading Iraq was just plain stupid........And I have no problem with going into Iran and kicking some ass.....now that would be the smart thing to do....

[actsnoblemartin]

excellent points. The democratic party used to be an honorable party, but now unfortunently it is MOSTLY owned and operated by move on and media matters.

I feel sorry for moderate democrats who have such a small voice in the party now.


Are people on the right interested in results....or justifying the war in Iraq? No we should not forget 911....that is just as important as Pearl Harbor...and Pearl Harbor guided out military policy for 50 years. I agree with those who say that if you do not follow history they are doomed to repeat it! Speaking of history....let's look at the facts....it was under the democratic leadership that the folowinging happened....

1. Brought the draft back in 1940....we went from having the worlds 17th largest army to an additional one-million men under arms. The republicans fought this tooth and nail. In fact in the republican presidential race was centered around the campaign the "very liberal Roosevelt is leading us to war". The specific campaign promise was that the republican party would keep us out the war.

2. In 1941....right before Pearl Harbor....there was another vote in congress to renew the draft for another year....the republicans campaigned heavily to defeat this...it was a dark day in American history...almost....it did not look good....but a miracle happened....it survived by one vote....thank God because Pearl Harbor was hit several weeks later....we were already in bad shape....had the democrats not fought so hard to get the draft and maintain it....God knows what would have happened.

3. I failed to mention that Roosevelt guided us through the great depression. I did not say got us over the great depression...but he provided excellent leadership...and got the country moving again. People loved him and respected him. He was not perfect...and some of his ideas were a little crazy....but he was just trying to find solutions. The do-nothing republican congress and President before him...caused membership in the American Communist party to triple by 1932....after Roosevelt took office...the communists almost closed shop

4. Roosevelt did an excellent job of running WWII...yes he had to fight the republican party tooth and nail over appropriations....even funding for the so-called "secret weapon"...which turned out to be the atomic bomb....

5. It was under Roosevelts direction that the ground work for unconditional surrender from the Germans and Japanese was set...and also plans for the United Nations.

6. It was under Truman that the CIA was established....

7. It was under the Dems that the Marshall Plan was launched that saved both Europe and Japan from utter hell, and communist rule. I could go on and on.

No....I think we liberals and democrats...have done our fair share for this country...and we were here from the very beginning and we are not going away. Invading Iraq was just plain stupid........And I have no problem with going into Iran and kicking some ass.....now that would be the smart thing to do....

[retiredman]

excellent points. The democratic party used to be an honorable party, but now unfortunently it is MOSTLY owned and operated by move on and media matters.

I feel sorry for moderate democrats who have such a small voice in the party now.

another example.... I am a democratic county committee member.... I KNOW who has a say in democratic party politics. This bullshit that moveon.org has any sway over the democratic party is nothing but Faux News spin.... and you lap it up.

[actsnoblemartin]

Let me ask you a question.

I heard the man, the former senator of tennesse, he is a black man names ford.

Have you heard of him?

this year he had something called the democratic leadership counsel or coalistion, one of those two

and none of the main contenders came

Can you prove to me, that fox is lying or that move on /media matters has no influence?

I try not to b.s. , and I try not to be ignorant.

Sorry when i am ignorant.


another example.... I am a democratic county committee member.... I KNOW who has a say in democratic party politics. This bullshit that moveon.org has any sway over the democratic party is nothing but Faux News spin.... and you lap it up.

[actsnoblemartin]

Maineman, you knows what it is, i hear alot of things on fox and talk radio.

Alot of things that make sense to me, you saying everything fox says is lying?

what about lou dobbs and glen beck (both on cnn)

you telling me every conservative is lying?

what about democrats then?

tell me how you see it

I try and keep it real with you

:lol:

[retiredman]

I have no idea what you are talking about. Rep Ford was a congressman, not a senator, who lost his bid for the senate this past november. I have not heard of this meeting he arranged and who did or did not attend. But that does not change my statement in the least.

[actsnoblemartin]

so what influence do you believe move on and media matters actually have in the democrat party?

do you believe there are any moderate democratic politicians out there now?


I have no idea what you are talking about. Rep Ford was a congressman, not a senator, who lost his bid for the senate this past november. I have not heard of this meeting he arranged and who did or did not attend. But that does not change my statement in the least.

[retiredman]

so what influence do you believe move on and media matters actually have in the democrat party?

do you believe there are any moderate democratic politicians out there now?


I am a moderate democrat. go reread post #45

[Yurt]

There is only 911 and nothing else.

We need to throw away the calendar and have all days just called 911+1 , 911+2 and so on.

We will never be able to see anything but burning towers when we close our eyes to sleep.

The only way to feel safe ever again is to live in constant fear of a re911ing of our 911worlds.

I think man kind needs to make sure we live in 911 if we ever want to have 911peace ever again 911.

You're right, we should have just let Pearl Harbor go. Let the japenese have their victory. We should have just let Hitler march through all of europe and beyond.

You're sick.

[Yurt]

I am a moderate democrat. go reread post #45

cough *b^%$shit* cough

[retiredman]

cough *b^%$shit* cough

so...are you suggesting that my stance on one issue - the Iraq war - precludes me from being moderate on the rest of the issues which confront america?

if so.... I disagree.

If not, and your comment was borne of knee jerk partisanship devoid of any understanding or awareness of my stances on that wide array of other issues...go fuck yourself:fu:

[actsnoblemartin]

this may shock you but i think your both right.

Yurt, we cant walk around every day, being so terrified we get nothing done

Truth, we have to go after terrorism with everything we have


You're right, we should have just let Pearl Harbor go. Let the japenese have their victory. We should have just let Hitler march through all of europe and beyond.

You're sick.

[actsnoblemartin]

I dont think anyone can truly know what is our hearsts. And if you or i, or anyone on this board believes they are genuinly moderate then they are.

This is not a criticism of anyone, more to say. You can be an extremist on some issues, and moderate on others.

It all depends really.


so...are you suggesting that my stance on one issue - the Iraq war - precludes me from being moderate on the rest of the issues which confront america?

if so.... I disagree.

If not, and your comment was borne of knee jerk partisanship devoid of any understanding or awareness of my stances on that wide array of other issues...go fuck yourself:fu:

[Yurt]

so...are you suggesting that my stance on one issue - the Iraq war - precludes me from being moderate on the rest of the issues which confront america?

if so.... I disagree.

If not, and your comment was borne of knee jerk partisanship devoid of any understanding or awareness of my stances on that wide array of other issues...go fuck yourself:fu:

You are not a moderate. My OPINION is not based on only one issue. You should know that, given your high opinion of your intellect. My opinion is based on my knowledge of you at the old board and you at this board. And don't be effin anal and make cite posts, cause you know its true.

As to fucking one's self, well, I think you have done such a marvelous job at fucking yourself, why would I tread on perfection.

[Sir Evil]

You are not a moderate. My OPINION is not based on only one issue. You should know that, given your high opinion of your intellect. My opinion is based on my knowledge of you at the old board and you at this board. And don't be effin anal and make cite posts, cause you know its true.

As to fucking one's self, well, I think you have done such a marvelous job at fucking yourself, why would I tread on perfection.

:laugh2::laugh2:

Oh my, I don't thing I have ever read something so dead on accurate!

[actsnoblemartin]

Well I would agree, if you talk to some to anyone long enough, you can see if they really are moderate or not.

I always like to say there is no truth only perception so if maineman seems himself as moderate, and you seem him as extreme...

Technically your both right lol :laugh2: :coffee:




You are not a moderate. My OPINION is not based on only one issue. You should know that, given your high opinion of your intellect. My opinion is based on my knowledge of you at the old board and you at this board. And don't be effin anal and make cite posts, cause you know its true.

As to fucking one's self, well, I think you have done such a marvelous job at fucking yourself, why would I tread on perfection.

[red states rule]

so...are you suggesting that my stance on one issue - the Iraq war - precludes me from being moderate on the rest of the issues which confront america?

if so.... I disagree.

If not, and your comment was borne of knee jerk partisanship devoid of any understanding or awareness of my stances on that wide array of other issues...go fuck yourself:fu:

Given your response (which is typical of liberals) you are not a moderate. Next you will say Hillary is a moderate

[retiredman]

Given your response (which is typical of liberals) you are not a moderate. Next you will say Hillary is a moderate

I have no intention of trying to categorize Hillary as anything other than a democrat. I do, however, feel quite comfortable in categorizing you as an idiot who is little more than a parrot. If you would take the time to review my posts over the various boards we jointly frequent, you would see that I am quite moderate on many many issues. I am less than moderate only when it comes to this president's abysmal foreign policy and the inept implementation of it.

[retiredman]

You are not a moderate. My OPINION is not based on only one issue. You should know that, given your high opinion of your intellect. My opinion is based on my knowledge of you at the old board and you at this board. And don't be effin anal and make cite posts, cause you know its true.

As to fucking one's self, well, I think you have done such a marvelous job at fucking yourself, why would I tread on perfection.


I know you are wrong. I know where I stand in my party... and I know that I am much more centrist than most. But feel free to cite posts if you like....but remember...just because someone is to the left of Newt, does not make them a liberal.

[red states rule]

I have no intention of trying to categorize Hillary as anything other than a democrat. I do, however, feel quite comfortable in categorizing you as an idiot who is little more than a parrot. If you would take the time to review my posts over the various boards we jointly frequent, you would see that I am quite moderate on many many issues. I am less than moderate only when it comes to this president's abysmal foreign policy and the inept implementation of it.

A liberal Dem would never call his front runner what she is - a liberal. You have to try and hide the fact you are a card carrying liberal Dem

To bad you can't hide it in your daily rants, insults, and personal attacks

[retiredman]

I am a democrat...hardly a liberal democrat.

oh..and your first sentence is nonsensical, by the way.

[red states rule]

I am a democrat...hardly a liberal democrat.

oh..and your first sentence is nonsensical, by the way.

Right MM - pardon me while I choke and duck from incoming bullshit. You have (on the other board) said Hillary is a moderate

A lie - and an feeble lie at that

[retiredman]

ask the republican voters in upstate new york who crossed over to vote for Hillary whether or not they think she is moderate.

[jimnyc]

ask the republican voters in upstate new york who crossed over to vote for Hillary whether or not they think she is moderate.

And ask them again today after her promise to create 200,000 new jobs in upstate NY only to actually LOSE over 100,000!

[red states rule]

ask the republican voters in upstate new york who crossed over to vote for Hillary whether or not they think she is moderate.

So you are saying Hillary is not a liberal?

Now moderates are for higher taxes, government run health care, $5000 for every newborn, taking oil company profits and using them to pay for new sources of energy, and liberal Judges making law from the bench?

[retiredman]

I suggested that YOU ask the conservative republican voters of the state of New York who crossed over to vote for Hillary - and continue to give her high marks for her work in the Senate - if THEY think she is a liberal or a moderate.

You go DO that and get back to me. mmmkay?

[red states rule]

I suggested that YOU ask the conservative republican voters of the state of New York who crossed over to vote for Hillary - and continue to give her high marks for her work in the Senate - if THEY think she is a liberal or a moderate.

You go DO that and get back to me. mmmkay?

As usual you fall back into defense and spin mode.

One liberal Dem protecting another liberal Dem - something you do on a daily basis

[retiredman]

my point is: you use the word "liberal" as a perjorative, not as any sort of accurate placement of someone's philosophy on any continuum.

I am suggesting that real live republicans who are residents of New York and who follow what Hillary does and says for New Yorkers do NOT consider her a "liberal" but, in fact, a very effective - and popular - moderate democratic senator.... much like they consider Guliani to be a moderate republican.

But you know only what Rush tells you and you say only what Rush says, so why should I expect anything other than antagonistic political trash talking from you.

Yo momma!

[red states rule]

my point is: you use the word "liberal" as a perjorative, not as any sort of accurate placement of someone's philosophy on any continuum.

I am suggesting that real live republicans who are residents of New York and who follow what Hillary does and says for New Yorkers do NOT consider her a "liberal" but, in fact, a very effective - and popular - moderate democratic senator.... much like they consider Guliani to be a moderate republican.

But you know only what Rush tells you and you say only what Rush says, so why should I expect anything other than antagonistic political trash talking from you.

Yo momma!

Yep, you are a liberal. Dancing around and playing your famous word games. No wonder you bow before Hillary (and Bill) they taught you well how to duck the questions and never admit the truth

I hope Hillary is your choice. Another Northeast lib runs for President - and loses

[retiredman]

an interesting interchange:

I said...


my point is: you use the word "liberal" as a perjorative, not as any sort of accurate placement of someone's philosophy on any continuum.


and, true to form, RSR proves my point:


Yep, you are a liberal. Dancing around and playing your famous word games. No wonder you bow before Hillary (and Bill) they taught you well how to duck the questions and never admit the truth

I hope Hillary is your choice. Another Northeast lib runs for President - and loses

:laugh2:

[red states rule]

an interesting interchange:

I said...



and, true to form, RSR proves my point:



:laugh2:

I am well aware calling a liberal a liberal is now considered a personal attack

[retiredman]

I suggested that YOU ask the conservative republican voters of the state of New York who crossed over to vote for Hillary - and continue to give her high marks for her work in the Senate - if THEY think she is a liberal or a moderate.

You go DO that and get back to me. mmmkay?

let me know how your research is coming!

[red states rule]

let me know how your research is coming!

Keep telling us how Hillary the liberal is not a liberal

[actsnoblemartin]

I thought most voters in new york were not republicans.

Just cause she got elected in new tork doesnt mean she will be electible


ask the republican voters in upstate new york who crossed over to vote for Hillary whether or not they think she is moderate.

[red states rule]

I thought most voters in new york were not republicans.

Just cause she got elected in new tork doesnt mean she will be electible

Her only accomplishment in life is she married Bill, and rides his coat tails (and her broom)

[actsnoblemartin]

she blew her way to the top, just like monica

:coffee:


Her only accomplishment in life is she married Bill, and rides his coat tails (and her broom)

[red states rule]

she blew her way to the top, just like monica

:coffee:

now that is torture

[REDWHITEBLUE2]

another example.... I am a democratic county committee member.... I KNOW who has a say in democratic party politics. This bullshit that moveon.org has any sway over the democratic party is nothing but Faux News spin.... a. :fu:Your full of it moveon.org is running the dimwit party and you are drinking the Liberal kook koolaid by the gallons

[red states rule]

:fu:Your full of it moveon.org is running the dimwit party and you are drinking the Liberal kook koolaid by the gallons

he also uses the liberal Kool Aid as his bath water

[retiredman]

I thought most voters in new york were not republicans.

Just cause she got elected in new tork doesnt mean she will be electible


that isn't the point or the question. either keep up or stay out.

[retiredman]

:fu:Your full of it moveon.org is running the dimwit party and you are drinking the Liberal kook koolaid by the gallons


eat shit. who the fuck are you - a goddamn Duncan Hunter supporter - telling ME who runs MY party????? :laugh2:

How's that whole Hunter campaign thing going, by the way? Ya think he'll catch fire any day now?:poke:

[Sitarro]

No....I think we liberals and democrats...have done our fair share for this country...and we were here from the very beginning and we are not going away. Invading Iraq was just plain stupid........And I have no problem with going into Iran and kicking some ass.....now that would be the smart thing to do....

The liberals and democrats of the past are just that, the past. Democrats are more about being the homosexual party, giving the vote to illegal border jumpers and felons party, the union mob metallity party, tax the rich and give to the poor for votes party, the pretend we can negotiate with terrorist organizations party, the UN party, the anti-business party, the infringe on our rights party, the special interest party......... John F. Kennedy, FDR, Truman....wouldn't recognize or support the assholes of the neo-left.

The Democrat party is all about seperating us with class warfare, racial warfare and paying lazy ass welfare recipients to not work and pull the blue lever in the voting booth(works best for all of the illiterate constituents of their party). You may win this next election........ after all, you are better liars, that's all you've been doing for the last seven years ....... but the country and it's naive citizens will lose and it will take reelecting the right Republican to fix the damage that will be done, it always happens that way.

[Sitarro]

eat shit. who the fuck are you - a goddamn Duncan Hunter supporter - telling ME who runs MY party????? :laugh2:

How's that whole Hunter campaign thing going, by the way? Ya think he'll catch fire any day now?:poke:

Ya know cooky, my Dad always said that you had to be an idiot to join the Navy........ he was right, you prove it everytime you post. Any new recipes for navy beans?

[red states rule]

eat shit. who the fuck are you - a goddamn Duncan Hunter supporter - telling ME who runs MY party????? :laugh2:

How's that whole Hunter campaign thing going, by the way? Ya think he'll catch fire any day now?:poke:

Out of facts again MM, so it is back to the insults and persoanl attacks. You are one hate filled liberal who needs serious help and some anger management

The Moveon.org nuts do run your screwed up party - and your leaders bow at their alter or else

[retiredman]

does it ever occur to you how absolutely ridiculous you sound telling me, a democrat who is a member of my county committee and involved in my party's platform development at the local and state levels, that my party is run by moveon.org?

That would be like me telling you who gives you your marching orders when you stock the shelves at the stop and shop.

[Sir Evil]

That would be like me telling you who gives you your marching orders when you stock the shelves at the stop and shop.

Hiya Homo -
And if that were really the case the he worked at strop & shop it somehow makes you superior? Typical..

[retiredman]

no...of course not.... it just means I don't know how the stop and shop operates any more than he knows how the democratic party operates.:laugh2:

[Sir Evil]

no...of course not.... it just means I don't know how the stop and shop operates any more than he knows how the democratic party operates.:laugh2:

I dunno, you claim to be a party member, you should be a decent reflection of that, and you do a wonderful job with the superiority complex, reducing yourself to pretty low levels when confronted on a topic, so he can't be too far off on how the party operates.

[mrg666]

Ya know cooky, my Dad always said that you had to be an idiot to join the Navy........ he was right, you prove it everytime you post. Any new recipes for navy beans?

is it true about naval circular activities (lets make a circle boys ) ?

[retiredman]

I dunno, you claim to be a party member, you should be a decent reflection of that, and you do a wonderful job with the superiority complex, reducing yourself to pretty low levels when confronted on a topic, so he can't be too far off on how the party operates.

I have no superiority complex. And as I said, he knows nothing of how my party operates any more than I know how stop and shop stocks shelves. Do you have anything to add to the conversation, or will you continue to follow me around like an obsessed puppy dog?

[Sir Evil]

I have no superiority complex. And as I said, he knows nothing of how my party operates any more than I know how stop and shop stocks shelves. Do you have anything to add to the conversation, or will you continue to follow me around like an obsessed puppy dog?

:laugh2:

Like I said in the previous post, your talking point,and the way you handle things reflect things just fine.

[retiredman]

got anything to add about the subject of the thread?

[Sir Evil]

got anything to add about the subject of the thread?

now you are going to dictate what I add to a thread? C'mon now, you said that he could'nt possibly know, and I only stated the obvious about you. I know you hate the fact that you are easily pegged as a cancer to a forum but don't ya think that pretty much happens sooner or later all on it's own?

[retiredman]

dictating? LOL I merely asked a question.

You need to lighten up and quit making me your cause celebre

[Sir Evil]

dictating? LOL I merely asked a question.

You need to lighten up and quit making me your cause celebre

:laugh2:

why? it's fun for me. Is it just the fact that what I have to say many other do as well, or is it just that it bothers you more to hear it from me?

[retiredman]

what you "say" - or what anyone on here says to me or about me - never "bothers" me in the least.

YOu and your little buddy dmp both just act like whiny little yappy dogs and I find THAT behavior mildly annoying. It really isn't WHAT you say, as much as it is the fact that you feel obsessively compelled to nip at my heels about anything and everything.

As it is, the annoyance is not as much of a negative factor as your content is a positive factor for its humorous value....but that could change in a heartbeat and, if it ever does, I'll just put you on ignore.

[Sir Evil]

what you "say" - or what anyone on here says to me or about me - never "bothers" me in the least.

YOu and your little buddy dmp both just act like whiny little yappy dogs and I find THAT behavior mildly annoying. It really isn't WHAT you say, as much as it is the fact that you feel obsessively compelled to nip at my heels about anything and everything.

As it is, the annoyance is not as much of a negative factor as your content is a positive factor for its humorous value....but that could change in a heartbeat and, if it ever does, I'll just put you on ignore.

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

First there is no real attempt to bother you, it's more about bringing out the simple fact that you are what you are. You have been here for some time now, I am just recently back. Funny that I see you pulling the same dookie here that you have elsewhere, and the bottom line is simply the fact that most here have you pegged as well. You are what you are, and I just enjoy reminding people of the.

And sorry, kind of hard to nip at anything thats beneath me. :D

[retiredman]

why are you obsessed with this "mission" to reveal what you see as my character flaws to the rest of the board?

Can't we just talk politics?

your call.

[red states rule]

I have no superiority complex. And as I said, he knows nothing of how my party operates any more than I know how stop and shop stocks shelves. Do you have anything to add to the conversation, or will you continue to follow me around like an obsessed puppy dog?

Of course you do. Being the arrogant liberal yiou are, you look down on those who dare to disagree with you, while sprewing your hate filed rants toward those who kick your ass in debates

[Sir Evil]

why are you obsessed with this "mission" to reveal what you see as my character flaws to the rest of the board?

Can't we just talk politics?

your call.

No! we have walked that walk several time, and you know that sooner or later you meltdown. When you don't like what you hear the first thing is to play the know it all, and start with the condescending replies, when that fails you go to vulgarities, and somehow walk away thinking that you have won something.

Then the simple fact that I left elsewhere, and made good on my word not to return is somthing else but you seem to think you can just take that show on the road, and play those cards over, and over, and not be called on it.

And that leads to the simple fact that you can't just talk politics, you are too narrow minded to realize others have opinions.

[red states rule]

No! we have walked that walk several time, and you know that sooner or later you meltdown. When you don't like what you hear the first thing is to play the know it all, and start with the condescending replies, when that fails you go to vulgarities, and somehow walk away thinking that you have won something.

Then the simple fact that I left elsewhere, and made good on my word not to return is somthing else but you seem to think you can just take that show on the road, and play those cards over, and over, and not be called on it.

And that leads to the simple fact that you can't just talk politics, you are too narrow minded to realize others have opinions.

MM has a sever phobia to the truth and facts - and has a short temper with people who call him on his liberal bullshit

[retiredman]

of course I realize that others have opinions and many are different than mine. I try very hard to articulate and defend my opinions. I expect others to do so as well.

So....last chance...are you going to be about obsessively following me about picking me apart, or are you going to talk issues?

[retiredman]

MM has a sever phobia to the truth and facts - and has a short temper with people who call him on his liberal bullshit

you seem to confuse your opinions with facts and truth all the time. Like saying that it is a FACT that moveon.org "controls" the democratic party.

The ABA has a much greater influence on the democratic party than moveon.org..... so do unions....so do teachers

I have little patience for your blathering and spewing opinions and labeling them as fact.

[Sir Evil]

of course I realize that others have opinions and many are different than mine. I try very hard to articulate and defend my opinions. I expect others to do so as well.

So....last chance...are you going to be about obsessively following me about picking me apart, or are you going to talk issues?

No, I refuse talking issues with you. You don't articulate nothing but a bad defense. Pick you apart? why would I have to do that when it has already been exposed? Not saying I did that, you did it yourself.

I'll bow out of this one now but catch ya on the next one. :D

[Said1]

MM has a sever phobia to the truth and facts - and has a short temper with people who call him on his liberal bullshit

But I thought everything was liberal bullshit? :laugh2:

[red states rule]

No, I refuse talking issues with you. You don't articulate nothing but a bad defense. Pick you apart? why would I have to do that when it has already been exposed? Not saying I did that, you did it yourself.

I'll bow out of this one now but catch on the next one. :D

You have picked him apart - like anyone lese who counters his DNC approved talking points with the truth and facts

[retiredman]

Of course you do. Being the arrogant liberal yiou are, you look down on those who dare to disagree with you, while sprewing your hate filed rants toward those who kick your ass in debates


lol

you ARE the ant on the log floating down the river with an erection screaming for them to open up the drawbridge.

YOU, of all people, have NEVER kicked ANYONE's ass is a debate. All you are is cut and paste and one liner Rush talking points. You can't string five sentences of your own thoughts together on a bet.

[retiredman]

No, I refuse talking issues with you. You don't articulate nothing but a bad defense. Pick you apart? why would I have to do that when it has already been exposed? Not saying I did that, you did it yourself.

I'll bow out of this one now but catch on the next one. :D

I'll never know about it, unfortunately.

AMF

[red states rule]

lol

you ARE the ant on the log floating down the river with an erection screaming for them to open up the drawbridge.

YOU, of all people, have NEVER kicked ANYONE's ass is a debate. All you are is cut and paste and one liner Rush talking points. You can't string five sentences of your own thoughts together on a bet.

You have been destroyed on every topic MM. Your arrogance and profanity come out very quickly as you run up against the facts.

You are a typical liberal moonbat who has distain for those whith a different opinion and who refuse to roll over for you

[Sir Evil]

I'll never know about it, unfortunately.

AMF

http://www.games.gr/forum/images/smilies/kissing.gif

:fu:

[retiredman]

here is a hint: having YOU tell me that I have been "destroyed" is really not an objective source....

I think that the record is pretty clear on USMB where you categorically refused to ever answer a single question ever posed to you. All you are is a poorly programmed right wing newsbot who cuts and pastes and then spews unrelated Rush-ism oneliners for punctuation.

[red states rule]

here is a hint: having YOU tell me that I have been "destroyed" is really not an objective source....

I think that the record is pretty clear on USMB where you categorically refused to ever answer a single question ever posed to you. All you are is a poorly programmed right wing newsbot who cuts and pastes and then spews unrelated Rush-ism oneliners for punctuation.

Once again, you have nothing to offer but the usual talking points that everyone is bored with

Facts mean nothing to a "man" who has put his party ahead of everything else

[retiredman]

everyone certainly is bored with your refusal to answer questions. YOu got laughed off of JPP.com in about a week :lol: At USMB, everyone would PM me and give me positive reps every time I made you run away from questions.

[red states rule]

everyone certainly is bored with your refusal to answer questions. YOu got laughed off of JPP.com in about a week :lol: At USMB, everyone would PM me and give me positive reps every time I made you run away from questions.

Then why am I 10,000 points ahead of you and I have been out for about a month?

I did see you rep points here have dropped over the last few days

[retiredman]

that's what happens on a conservative board. the fact remains....you run away from questions like a vampire runs away from sunlight. I used to keep a list of all the questions you had run away from, but it got to tedious keeping it up!

[red states rule]

that's what happens on a conservative board. the fact remains....you run away from questions like a vampire runs away from sunlight. I used to keep a list of all the questions you had run away from, but it got to tedious keeping it up!

Oh now it is the conservatives fault when things do not go your way. Try people do not arrogant libs looking down on others from their Ivory Towers

[retiredman]

no.... it is no one's fault...and I have never said that things have not "gone my way". I merely point out that on a board where there are vastly more conservatives than liberals, the conservatives will get more reputation points than the liberals will. I accept that reality.


Do let me know, however, when you will stop relying on cutting and pasting other people's words and actually participate in a back and forth debate with me using YOUR own words and YOUR own thoughts. I can hardly wait.

[Sir Evil]

participate in a back and forth debate with me

pompous idiot, you are not capable of such a thing.

[mrg666]

of course I realize that others have opinions and many are different than mine. I try very hard to articulate and defend my opinions. I expect others to do so as well.

So....last chance...are you going to be about obsessively following me about picking me apart, or are you going to talk issues?

what is the issue ?

[REDWHITEBLUE2]

eat shit. who the fuck are you - a goddamn Duncan Hunter supporter - telling ME who runs MY party????? :laugh2:

How's that whole Hunter campaign thing going, by the way? Ya think he'll catch fire any day now?:poke: HEY DICKWAD at least I'm supporting an American UNLIKE YOU who sucks up to that little Greek butt pirate George Soros WHO at last time I checked was not an American Citizen. By the way WHAT did Soros Have for Lunch ? You have your Head so Far up his ass You should know :ahole:

[retiredman]

I have zero connection with Mr. Soros. I have never met him, and I am certain the democratic party apparatus in my state has absolutely nothing to do with him.

So...should we expect your boy Duncan to be making a dramatic move here any day now? LOL

[Yurt]

I have zero connection with reeealittty LOL

We know, why state the obvious?

[retiredman]

We know, why state the obvious?

why do you feel the need to misquote me in order to make your points?

[retiredman]

We know, but why don't you like to fuck goats like I do?


see?

[REDWHITEBLUE2]

why do you feel the need to misquote me in order to make your points? He was just correcting your obvious misquoted post

[retiredman]

He was just correcting your obvious misquoted post

I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT

[Yurt]

why do you feel the need to misquote me in order to make your points?

Cuz its funny and we all know it cept you.... :laugh2:

Aaaah, come on, this time it was a wee funny.


:)

[Yurt]

I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT

So? And this is new to the rest of us?

[retiredman]

Cuz its funny and we all know it cept you.... :laugh2:

Aaaah, come on, this time it was a wee funny.


:)

isn't there a humor forum for those sorts of things?

[red states rule]

I have zero connection with Mr. Soros. I have never met him, and I am certain the democratic party apparatus in my state has absolutely nothing to do with him.

So...should we expect your boy Duncan to be making a dramatic move here any day now? LOL

Sure you do. He is the guy running your party and gives Reid and Pelosi their marching orders

[retiredman]

whatever...as if YOU know.

Did you MISS this?

I am certain the democratic party apparatus in my state has absolutely nothing to do with him.

[red states rule]

whatever...as if YOU know.

Did you MISS this?

I am certain the democratic party apparatus in my state has absolutely nothing to do with him.

He runs the Dems party, he tells Redi and Pelosi wahat to do, and they pass the orders down the line

Being a good little lib you will do as you are told. Your lack of outrage over the Moveon.org ad proves that

[retiredman]

He runs the Dems party, he tells Redi and Pelosi wahat to do, and they pass the orders down the line



and you know that because Rush tells you? :laugh2:

[red states rule]

and you know that because Rush tells you? :laugh2:

This from the "man" who dismissed the Moveon.org smear ad with:


the american public has as long a memory as a goldfish. they will have forgotten that minor little incident before dinner tonight.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/showthread.php?t=50696&page=7


Is that what the latest DNC approved talking points tell you to say MM?

[retiredman]

It is what my brain tells me, unlike you, I am capable of formulating independent thought.... I KNOW for a fact that you don't know jack shit about who bankrolls the democrats across the nation.... and I know that your attempting to whip this dead horse of an issue concerning the moveon ad will reap you diminishing returns as the issue slips into the background of american life and a new season of american idol captivates us all...but do keep trying. it is always good for a laugh, that is for sure!

[red states rule]

It is what my brain tells me, unlike you, I am capable of formulating independent thought.... I KNOW for a fact that you don't know jack shit about who bankrolls the democrats across the nation.... and I know that your attempting to whip this dead horse of an issue concerning the moveon ad will reap you diminishing returns as the issue slips into the background of american life and a new season of american idol captivates us all...but do keep trying. it is always good for a laugh, that is for sure!

Translation - I will not call a smear ad a smear ad since it came from my party. Being a loyal Democrat, I will continue to recite the standard talking points no matter what facts oprove them wrong

And I will continue to attack Rush as my party tells me to - even though he did not smear the troops. It helps deflect attention from the Moveon.org ad which was nothing more then a "minor little incident"

[retiredman]

I am not attacking Rush on this issue at all.... hell...if I wanted to attack Rush, I'd attack him on his flip flop about white collar drug users all needing to go upriver to the big house! That, and taking a bushel of viagras to the dominican republic so he could get it up with hookers!:lol:

[red states rule]

I am not attacking Rush on this issue at all.... hell...if I wanted to attack Rush, I'd attack him on his flip flop about white collar drug users all needing to go upriver to the big house! That, and taking a bushel of viagras to the dominican republic so he could get it up with hookers!:lol:

Now changing the subject when boxed into the corner again.

[retiredman]

Now changing the subject when boxed into the corner again.

you were the one who JUST said that I was attacking Rush.... I am responding to YOU...not changing the subject at all!

remember this:

Translation -
And I will continue to attack Rush as my party tells me to - even though he did not smear the troops.

do try to keep up with what you write! :laugh2:

[red states rule]

you were the one who JUST said that I was attacking Rush.... I am responding to YOU...not changing the subject at all!

remember this:

Translation -
And I will continue to attack Rush as my party tells me to - even though he did not smear the troops.

do try to keep up with what you write! :laugh2:

You have been attacking Rush - just as your party told you to. While he did not smear the troops - your party did. And you have been defending the smear since day one

[retiredman]

I have never spoken out against Rush on this phony soldier thing at all.... you made a point and you were wrong. imagine that!:lol:

[red states rule]

I have never spoken out against Rush on this phony soldier thing at all.... you made a point and you were wrong. imagine that!:lol:

Perhaps - but you were silent on the Moveon.org smear ad - or the minor little incident as you call it

[retiredman]

you were the one who JUST said that I was attacking Rush.... I am responding to YOU...not changing the subject at all!

remember this:

Translation -
And I will continue to attack Rush as my party tells me to - even though he did not smear the troops.

do try to keep up with what you write! :laugh2:


your translation was full of shit.... almost a self portrait....yet, true to form, you NEVER retract such bullshit.

I never did condone the moveon ad, and I only said that, come election time, it will be long forgotten by the overwhelming majority of Americans..... and for you to keep hammering on it was foolish.... like you. a foolish cut and paste one liner Rush talking points spewing chucklehead.
I would never go broke betting on your lack of intelligence!:lol:

[red states rule]

your translation was full of shit.... almost a self portrait....yet, true to form, you NEVER retract such bullshit.

I never did condone the moveon ad, and I only said that, come election time, it will be long forgotten by the overwhelming majority of Americans..... and for you to keep hammering on it was foolish.... like you. a foolish cut and paste one liner Rush talking points spewing chucklehead.
I would never go broke betting on your lack of intelligence!:lol:

You dismissed it and tried to deflect any damage done to your party. Like you did with the smears Kerry, Durbin, Kennedy, and Reid made

Being a good little Dem you are incapable of anything else

[retiredman]

I did not attack Rush for the phony soldier comment at the direction of my party as you claimed.... you're a liar...but we already knew that.

and being a good little republican, you defend any and every foreign policy blunder made by YOUR president.... including waving pompoms for this war that has already claimed nearly 32K American casualties.

[red states rule]

I did not attack Rush for the phony soldier comment at the direction of my party as you claimed.... you're a liar...but we already knew that.

As I said, perhaps

But it is a fact you gave your fellow anrgy libs a pass on the real smear made by your party

[retiredman]

there is no "perhaps" about it...you ARE a liar. YOu made a slanderous inaccurate statement and you have not retracted it.

[red states rule]

there is no "perhaps" about it...you ARE a liar. YOu made a slanderous inaccurate statement and you have not retracted it.

Oh now you play the insulted card. Where did I say you attacked Rush on the ad - I said you have attacked Rush - period

And you have. You have gone back into the moonbat talking points and pulled out some oldies and have posted them like a good little moonbat lib

[retiredman]

no...you said I attacked Rush as my party told me to. That is a lie.

And I have long since learned not to be insulted by YOU, RSR.... I just call a liar a liar. Like you. No indignation in that at all. Just fact.

[red states rule]

no...you said I attacked Rush as my party told me to. That is a lie.

And I have long since learned not to be insulted by YOU, RSR.... I just call a liar a liar. Like you. No indignation in that at all. Just fact.

MM you post the DNC talking pints on a daily basis. You follow those instructions, and counter every thread with them

Deny it all you want - your credibility is well below zero

BTW, Sen Reid even took a shot at Rush by saying he was high on his drugs - you worked in the drug angle several times

So you did attack Rush just as your party did

Case closed

[retiredman]

Look...if the DNC even HAS daily talking points, I would not have a clue where to go find them and certainly have never used anything even approaching that here or anywhere else.

I attack Rush for drugs. Reid attacks Rush for drugs. Reid did not TELL me to do anything. Case closed. you're a liar.

I actually attack Rush for the HYPOCRISY of his drug use.... he DID say that all white collar drug abusers should be sent upriver to the big house for hard time....yet didn't willingly go do his hard time when he was caught.

The viagra and the dominican hookers is just too damned funny not to say something about. Can you imagine? Not only can the fat slob get any real pussy on his own, he can't even get it up without help when he BUYS it!

[red states rule]

Look...if the DNC even HAS daily talking points, I would not have a clue where to go find them and certainly have never used anything even approaching that here or anywhere else.

I attack Rush for drugs. Reid attacks Rush for drugs. Reid did not TELL me to do anything. Case closed. you're a liar.

I actually attack Rush for the HYPOCRISY of his drug use.... he DID say that all white collar drug abusers should be sent upriver to the big house for hard time....yet didn't willingly go do his hard time when he was caught.

The viagra and the dominican hookers is just too damned funny not to say something about. Can you imagine? Not only can the fat slob get any real pussy on his own, he can't even get it up without help when he BUYS it!

Yawn........

[retiredman]

Yawn........


fact: I write my own stuff.

fact: I have never posted anything from anyone's list of talking points.

fact: you are a liar. If you lie about that, why should we trust anything you say...even about, for example, your own health?

liars are liars. once someone gives up their integrity, they certainly don't get it back with sympathy.
:fu:

[red states rule]

fact: I write my own stuff.

fact: I have never posted anything from anyone's list of talking points.

fact: you are a liar. If you lie about that, why should we trust anything you say...even about, for example, your own health?

liars are liars. once someone gives up their integrity, they certainly don't get it back with sympathy.
:fu:

But you get your stuff from the liberal media who get it from the DNC

MM, you have shown you have zero integrity. You have put your party ahead of your country. To you nothing matters to you except power for the Dems. Whatever needs to been done is fine as long as it benefits the Dems

You have sold out all your values and honor

[retiredman]

I get my stuff from all over the place. Do you get any of YOUR stuff from the media? Or do you only get yours from the conservative media? LOL

Look. You are a liar. YOu have been caught red handed in lies on several occasions in just the past few days. Liars have no integrity. ANd your opinions as to what matters to me are as meaningless as anything and everything else you say.... once your integrity is gone...once you get caught lying over and over again.... why should anyone believe anything you say. And my honor and my values are intact. Yours.... proven gone by your lies.

[red states rule]

I get my stuff from all over the place. Do you get any of YOUR stuff from the media? Or do you only get yours from the conservative media? LOL

Look. You are a liar. YOu have been caught red handed in lies on several occasions in just the past few days. Liars have no integrity. ANd your opinions as to what matters to me are as meaningless as anything and everything else you say.... once your integrity is gone...once you get caught lying over and over again.... why should anyone believe anything you say. And my honor and my values are intact. Yours.... proven gone by your lies.

Conseravtive media being the media which gives both sides of the issue - and not the one sided left leaning media

MM you are the biggest lier since Bill Clinton. You are wrapped up in your liberal bias you do not have even the slightest hint of objectivity

You do not have any horor or values. You sold them out in lieu of your party a long time ago

[retiredman]

Conseravtive media being the media which gives both sides of the issue - and not the one sided left leaning media

MM you are the biggest lier since Bill Clinton. You are wrapped up in your liberal bias you do not have even the slightest hint of objectivity

You do not have any horor or values. You sold them out in lieu of your party a long time ago

I get my information from a variety of sources.... not merely liberal ones.

And you can sit there behind the safety of your computer monitor and CALL me a liar, but you cannot show one time where I have lied. I have shown several of YOUR lies on this site in the past two days.

liars have no integrity...no honor and their values are putrid.

you're a liar. proven.

[red states rule]

I get my information from a variety of sources.... not merely liberal ones.

And you can sit there behind the safety of your computer monitor and CALL me a liar, but you cannot show one time where I have lied. I have shown several of YOUR lies on this site in the past two days.

liars have no integrity...no honor and their values are putrid.

you're a liar. proven.

You lied when you say your Dems have not smeared the troops. You lied when you tap danced around the Moveon.org ad. You said how Betary Us has many meanings. Need more? I have them

Yes you are right when you say you do not have any integrity. Even you get something right every now and then

[retiredman]

You lied when you say your Dems have not smeared the troops. You lied when you tap danced around the Moveon.org ad. You said how Betary Us has many meanings. Need more? I have them

Yes you are right when you say you do not have any integrity. Even you get something right every now and then

We have a difference of opinion about democrats smearing troops. that is not a lie to differ from you on that. I never tap danced about anything. I point out that the word "betray" has multiple definitions. that is not a lie.

I do have integrity. you do not. it's been proven.
by the way...do you even know what the word "lie" means? :laugh2:

[red states rule]

We have a difference of opinion about democrats smearing troops. that is not a lie to differ from you on that. I never tap danced about anything. I point out that the word "betray" has multiple definitions. that is not a lie.

I do have integrity. you do not. it's been proven.
by the way...do you even know what the word "lie" means? :laugh2:

What differece? You allow liberal smears without a word of rebuke

And you support rebukes of non smears form conservatives

With you, it is party before truth and country

[retiredman]

you have no idea whether I rebuke anyone in private. Just because I chose to not rebuke my allies in public does not mean I do not criticize in private.

and I don't really give a shit if Rush gets smeared... he deals in smears and dirt.... he is a drug addict and sex addict who can't get any real pussy and has to go to the dominican republic with a jug of viagra and a wad of cash for hookers to get laid.

And with me....my country always comes first. always.

YOU are a liar. proven.

big difference

[REDWHITEBLUE2]

you defend any and every foreign policy blunder made by YOUR president.... Hey He's YOUR President too

[red states rule]

you have no idea whether I rebuke anyone in private. Just because I chose to not rebuke my allies in public does not mean I do not criticize in private.

and I don't really give a shit if Rush gets smeared... he deals in smears and dirt.... he is a drug addict and sex addict who can't get any real pussy and has to go to the dominican republic with a jug of viagra and a wad of cash for hookers to get laid.

And with me....my country always comes first. always.

YOU are a liar. proven.

big difference

Your country does come first. Demomerica is where you live. Conservatives are evicted at once

[red states rule]

Hey He's YOUR President too

John Kerry is his President of Demomerica

[retiredman]

Your country does come first. Demomerica is where you live. Conservatives are evicted at once

more flatulent Rush talking points devoid of any truth or intellectual content. I live in a blue state and we have plenty of conservatives. not one has been evicted.

but I guarantee, you'd be LAUGHED out of town.

[red states rule]

more flatulent Rush talking points devoid of any truth or intellectual content. I live in a blue state and we have plenty of conservatives. not one has been evicted.

but I guarantee, you'd be LAUGHED out of town.

It paints a very accurate picture of your mindset MM. The only conservative "friends" you have, are those who roll over for you and feed your huge ego

[retiredman]

It paints a very accurate picture of your mindset MM. The only conservative "friends" you have, are those who roll over for you and feed your huge ego

and tell us, for the record, how the fuck you became an expert on who my friends were? stop it. you are looking more and more like a moron with each passing post.

wanna guess my eye color next? LOL

[red states rule]

and tell us, for the record, how the fuck you became an expert on who my friends were? stop it. you are looking more and more like a moron with each passing post.

wanna guess my eye color next? LOL

Point is it would be amazing if you have any friends

[Sir Evil]

wanna guess my eye color next? LOL

Brown because you are so full of shit?

[retiredman]

Point is it would be amazing if you have any friends

point is: you don't know a fucking thing about me. and to suggest that you DO is moronic.

[red states rule]

point is: you don't know a fucking thing about me. and to suggest that you DO is moronic.

Who would want to know anything about you? We all know enough about you from your daily meltdowns, lies, and rants

[retiredman]

Who would want to know anything about you? We all know enough about you from your daily meltdowns, lies, and rants


then why, pray tell, do you feel compelled to tell me how many friends I have and what their political persuasions might be?

And.... let's remember: I am not the liar here. YOU certainly are.

[red states rule]

then why, pray tell, do you feel compelled to tell me how many friends I have and what their political persuasions might be?

And.... let's remember: I am not the liar here. YOU certainly are.

You are the one who brought up the many "friends" you have. Based on you treat conservatives who dare disagree with you - the conservative "freidns" you have either agree with you to avoid arguements or are RINO's

I could care less how many friends you have - if you have any at all

[retiredman]

You are the one who brought up the many "friends" you have. Based on you treat conservatives who dare disagree with you - the conservative "freidns" you have either agree with you to avoid arguements or are RINO's

I could care less how many friends you have - if you have any at all

again... you really don't have a clue how many conservative friends I have or how I interact with them. you really should stick to things that you know about..... see: a thread all about Rush Limbaugh talking points would be perfect for you!:laugh2:

[red states rule]

again... you really don't have a clue how many conservative friends I have or how I interact with them. you really should stick to things that you know about..... see: a thread all about Rush Limbaugh talking points would be perfect for you!:laugh2:

How you interatct with your "conservative friends"? You make a over the top attack about Pres Bush and they break out in applause

Being a naval officer you would know this - it is like how Lt Carpenter was to Capt Binghamton

[retiredman]

I rarely, if ever, talk politics with my conservative friends. We talk about movies, or what restaurant we will meet at, or red sox baseball, or books we have read, or where we went/are going on vacation....

I reserve most of my talking about politics to sites like this and to the occasional op-ed piece in the local paper.

[red states rule]

I rarely, if ever, talk politics with my conservative friends. We talk about movies, or what restaurant we will meet at, or red sox baseball, or books we have read, or where we went/are going on vacation....

I reserve most of my talking about politics to sites like this and to the occasional op-ed piece in the local paper.

Whatever Wally - you have zero credibility and I find it hard to take anything you blather seriously

[retiredman]

Oh NO!!! I have zero credibility from a cut and paste oneline spewing newsbot? How will I ever sleep tonight! The horrors!:laugh2:

[red states rule]

Oh NO!!! I have zero credibility from a cut and paste oneline spewing newsbot? How will I ever sleep tonight! The horrors!:laugh2:

Sorry Wally, you are a dead duck. You have shown your true colors - yellow thru and thru - and one of the biggest liberal blowhards who backs up nothing he sprews

[retiredman]

sprews????:lol:

and where do you get this "yellow" business? I am frightened of very little in my life and I don't back down from anything worth standing up to.

[actsnoblemartin]

I dont believe maineman is yellow, and their nothing wrong with using articles to make your point.


sprews????:lol:

and where do you get this "yellow" business? I am frightened of very little in my life and I don't back down from anything worth standing up to.

[retiredman]

good for you, martin...how sweet. you're buddy buddy with both sides!

I don't have a problem using an article every now and then.... as you know and have known for some time, my concern with RSR is that he is incapable of using his own words to articulate any sort of response to any debate point. He uses one liners, or he uses cut and paste articles, or he uses one of his stock "libs do....." or "dems are screwed up because...." lines and NEVER NEVER NEVER exhibits the mental capacity to actually argue his positions.

[red states rule]

good for you, martin...how sweet. you're buddy buddy with both sides!

I don't have a problem using an article every now and then.... as you know and have known for some time, my concern with RSR is that he is incapable of using his own words to articulate any sort of response to any debate point. He uses one liners, or he uses cut and paste articles, or he uses one of his stock "libs do....." or "dems are screwed up because...." lines and NEVER NEVER NEVER exhibits the mental capacity to actually argue his positions.

That is funny coming from a proud memebr of the moonbat left.

[retiredman]

you categorize anyone in the democratic party as a member of the "moonbat left". Aren't you getting tired of using that same shopworn phrase that you copied from Rush?

YOu can categorize me all you want in one liners.... the fact remains, that I am capable of articulating my positions and you are only capable of cutting and pasting other people's words or repeating catchy one liners that you get from conservative talk radio.

[red states rule]

you categorize anyone in the democratic party as a member of the "moonbat left". Aren't you getting tired of using that same shopworn phrase that you copied from Rush?

YOu can categorize me all you want in one liners.... the fact remains, that I am capable of articulating my positions and you are only capable of cutting and pasting other people's words or repeating catchy one liners that you get from conservative talk radio.

When will you start articulating your positions? We have been waiting since the day you started posting

The problem is when you are hit with facts you fold up like a beach chair

[retiredman]

yawn... you confuse fact with opinion every day. It really gets quite boring.

and you run away from facts that do not play into your play book.

coward.

[red states rule]

yawn... you confuse fact with opinion every day. It really gets quite boring.

and you run away from facts that do not play into your play book.

coward.

Dismissing the facts will not make them go away - as you hope they will

[retiredman]

Dismissing the facts will not make them go away - as you hope they will

that is exactly what I have been saying to you about polls that show Americans true distaste for congressional republicans.... but you keep running away from them!:laugh2:

[red states rule]

that is exactly what I have been saying to you about polls that show Americans true distaste for congressional republicans.... but you keep running away from them!:laugh2:

Since your Dems took over there has been a steady drop for their approval. If Republicans are more unpopulat why are the moonbats now camped out in front of San Fran Nan's SF home and not Mitch McConnells?

[retiredman]

Since your Dems took over there has been a steady drop for their approval. If Republicans are more unpopulat why are the moonbats now camped out in front of San Fran Nan's SF home and not Mitch McConnells?

the fact is: no matter how poorly americans think that democrats in congress are doing...they think that republicans in congress are doing much worse. and you somehow can't explain that or ever address it! :laugh2:

[red states rule]

the fact is: no matter how poorly americans think that democrats in congress are doing...they think that republicans in congress are doing much worse. and you somehow can't explain that or ever address it! :laugh2:

This should make the Dem base jump for joy. Dems may hit single digits whith this one

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=7790

[retiredman]

just imagine how low the REPUBLICANS will be? They have been significantly lower than congressional democrats since before the last election.... every single time the public has been asked about congressional democrat's performance versus congressional republicans, they give the republicans MUCH LOWER marks. Can you explain that? or will you keep running away from it?
my guess? running!

[red states rule]

just imagine how low the REPUBLICANS will be? They have been significantly lower than congressional democrats since before the last election.... every single time the public has been asked about congressional democrat's performance versus congressional republicans, they give the republicans MUCH LOWER marks. Can you explain that? or will you keep running away from it?
my guess? running!

Keep dreaming. I see you have nothing to say on those threads

[retiredman]

no dreaming at all. the poll numbers are a reality...and we all know how much you love poll numbers..... but, for some reason, you run away from THOSE particular poll numbers....why IS that?

[red states rule]

no dreaming at all. the poll numbers are a reality...and we all know how much you love poll numbers..... but, for some reason, you run away from THOSE particular poll numbers....why IS that?

If you want to believe Amercia is moving to the left - go for it

[retiredman]

I don't believe that at all. I do believe that poll after poll after poll after poll from gallup and harris and pew and fox and wsj and nyt and abc and cbs all show that the country thinks that congressional republicans are doing a totally shitty job....and those polls have shown that since before the last election.... and despite your claims that the democrats in congress are in trouble, the fact remains that the republicans are STILL consistently way below the democrats in public approval.

[red states rule]

I don't believe that at all. I do believe that poll after poll after poll after poll from gallup and harris and pew and fox and wsj and nyt and abc and cbs all show that the country thinks that congressional republicans are doing a totally shitty job....and those polls have shown that since before the last election.... and despite your claims that the democrats in congress are in trouble, the fact remains that the republicans are STILL consistently way below the democrats in public approval.

Democrats are largely responsible for the Congress's plummeting approval rating. The party suffered a 20-point drop, between April and the end of September. This drop is largely attributable to a huge chunk of the party's liberal base that is furious with Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) for not turning back Bush's war policies.

Bush's approval rating is stuck at 33 percent, essentially unchanged for the entire year, while 64 percent disapprove of his job performance.

The poll data shows that the war in Iraq is no longer just Bush's political albatross, but is dragging the Congress into a similarly unpopular depth. Not surprisingly, then, the percentage of adults approving of the situation in Iraq is exactly between the congressional and presidential approval ratings: 30 percent.

All this comes on the eve of a fascinating legislative showdown between Bush and legislators heading into the home stretch of the first term of the 110th Congress. Both sides are digging in for a battle over a host of domestic policy items.

Democrats believe they are better positioned to handle this fight, eyeing with glee the pending veto override effort on their $35 billion expansion of the state Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP). Democrats believe that their base will rally around them in these domestic policy battles despite frustration over the war.

Today's Post-ABC poll backed up Democratic claims that their party is favored by voters on a host of pocketbook issues, showing leads over Republicans by significant margins: 56-26 on health care; 51-33 on the economy; 54-34 on the federal budget. In addition, the poll found 72% of adults favoring the Democratic-led expansion of SCHIP.

But the biggest problem for Pelosi and Reid are independents, whose support was crucial last fall. Just 24% of independents approve of the performance on Capitol Hill. That's the exact congressional approval rating among independents on the eve of last year's electoral blood bath for Republicans. Just 16 percent of respondents said the new Congress had accomplished a "great deal" or a "good amount," which is even lower than the pre-election accomplishment percentage reached by Congress on the eve of the electoral disaster suffered by Democrats in 1994.

These are frightening political indicators for Democrats today.

As Jon Cohen and Dan Balz noted in today's Washington Post, the 29% approval rating is the lowest for Congress since November 1995, 10 months after Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.) became the first Republican speaker in more than 50 years. At that time, Gingrich embarked on a showdown with President Clinton that came to be his defining political defeat, shutting down the government over spending battles. Clinton clearly won, while Gingrich's national image never recovered. Clinton was unpopular -- with approval ratings in the low 40s -- and used the confrontation to pivot back into popularity and cruise to re-election in 1996.

As Bush, Pelosi and Reid take up a similar fight 12 years later, the winner may well be determined by which side can better secure the support of those independents that have helped declare most political winners in past legislative battles.


http://blog.washingtonpost.com/capitol-briefing/

[retiredman]

still running away from all those polls, aren't ya?:lame2:

[red states rule]

still running away from all those polls, aren't ya?:lame2:

Check the link numbnuts - the gap is very close

Dems are losing among all voters

[retiredman]

http://www.pollingreport.com/cong_dem.htm
http://www.pollingreport.com/cong_rep.htm

check the links numbnuts...the gap is 9 points:lol:

[red states rule]

http://www.pollingreport.com/cong_dem.htm
http://www.pollingreport.com/cong_rep.htm

check the links numbnuts...the gap is 9 points:lol:

It is 3 in the Washington Post Poll

You lost double digits with LIBERAL Democrats

and lost big with Independents

So much for the afterglow of the 06 elections :lol::lol:

[retiredman]

It is 3 in the Washington Post Poll

You lost double digits with LIBERAL Democrats

and lost big with Independents

So much for the afterglow of the 06 elections

so...just so we're clear....you are, in fact, finally admitting that after all that has happened in the past year, that people still hold the republicans in congress with lower esteem than they do the democrats? by any poll?

If those liberal democrats are such demons.... imagine how pathetic the public must hold your inept republicans if they are STILL lower in every single poll taken??????

my my my.... you all must really suck!

[red states rule]

so...just so we're clear....you are, in fact, finally admitting that after all that has happened in the past year, that people still hold the republicans in congress with lower esteem than they do the democrats? by any poll?

If those liberal democrats are such demons.... imagine how pathetic the public must hold your inept republicans if they are STILL lower in every single poll taken??????

my my my.... you all must really suck!

Considering Dems have dropped double digits with liberals, independents, and moderate democrats - go ahead and be happy MM *(f that is possible)

[retiredman]

just remember...as low as you think we are in the public's opinion..... you guys are worse and have been for quite some time!:laugh2:

and the way you have been trashing the democrats and saying how terrible WE are.... just how bad does that make YOU all?

[red states rule]

just remember...as low as you think we are in the public's opinion..... you guys are worse and have been for quite some time!:laugh2:

and the way you have been trashing the democrats and saying how terrible WE are.... just how bad does that make YOU all?

Seems the Gen Betray Us ad did hurt the Dems - as it should have. Please MM let the arrogance that makes a liberal keep coming through on Capital Hill


Partisan ratings of Congress have shown significant fluctuations this year. After the Democrats took control of both houses at the beginning of the year, Democrats were more likely than Republicans to approve of Congress. Then, ratings declined among both groups to the point that Republicans and Democrats were equally likely to approve of Congress. Following Gen. David Petraeus' testimony before Congress in September, Republicans' ratings increased (from 18% in August to 37% in September), while Democrats showed no change (21% to 23%). In the latest poll, Republicans (25%) and Democrats (26%) are again about equally likely to approve of Congress. Independents' approval is slightly lower, at 19% in the new poll.

http://galluppoll.com/content/?ci=28960