Is Taiwan Just Freaking Or Was This Planned?

[Kathianne]

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/taiwan-reports-nine-chinese-aircraft-its-air-defence-zone-2022-02-24/

[Gunny]

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/taiwan-reports-nine-chinese-aircraft-its-air-defence-zone-2022-02-24/Pooh's Olympic farce is over. Why not?

Russia and China do as they want. Rest of the World can do something or not and neither cares.

Lesson not learned by US: This is what happens when President chosen on who he is not rather than for who he is.

[Kathianne]

It seems simplistic to talk past wars, then there's the multiple warnings of past wars and repercussions.

Hitler raving about WWI with more than a few truths.
Putin for past 20 years and end of Cold War.

[Gunny]

It seems simplistic to talk past wars, then there's the multiple warnings of past wars and repercussions.

Hitler raving about WWI with more than a few truths.
Putin for past 20 years and end of Cold War.I could teach Putin more history about his own country than he apparently knows. His "truths" are cherry-picked. Same time, the West's romanticized notion of Ukranian history is as much BS. Oddly enough on the latter: it's all right there in our history books. Not like I'm a genius.

Another forgotten moment of the past: Before Hitler invaded Russia, Hitler and Stalin divided Poland and Eastern Europe. Russia was convenient but never a good guy.

[Kathianne]

I could teach Putin more history about his own country than he apparently knows. His "truths" are cherry-picked. Same time, the West's romanticized notion of Ukranian history is as much BS. Oddly enough on the latter: it's all right there in our history books. Not like I'm a genius.

Another forgotten moment of the past: Before Hitler invaded Russia, Hitler and Stalin divided Poland and Eastern Europe. Russia was convenient but never a good guy.

All true. It's the bits of truth though that provides the cover to the excuses and appeasers. It's the reason so much time and resources are spent on spin, for those in favor and those against.

[Gunny]

All true. It's the bits of truth though that provides the cover to the excuses and appeasers. It's the reason so much time and resources are spent on spin, for those in favor and those against.

A couple of inconvenient truths for Putin:

SSR Ukraine emerged from civil war Bolsheviks won and declared independence 1922. USSR was the first to recognize. USSR also governed Ukraine until 92. USSR recognized Ukraine independence in 92.

Putin is violating his own country's agreements no matter how he spins it.

[Kathianne]

A couple of inconvenient truths for Putin:

SSR Ukraine emerged from civil war Bolsheviks won and declared independence 1922. USSR was the first to recognize. USSR also governed Ukraine until 92. USSR recognized Ukraine independence in 92.

Putin is violating his own country's agreements no matter how he spins it.

And he doesn't care, nor do those pushing, 'It's not our problem.'

[Kathianne]

And he doesn't care, nor do those pushing, 'It's not our problem.'

Got to give Ukrainian leaders for reminding all of the promises made when they gave up all those nukes for disposal.

[Gunny]

Got to give Ukrainian leaders for reminding all of the promises made when they gave up all those nukes for disposal.Biden falling back on Ukraine not a member of NATO so we are not bound to defend. Despite all THOSE promises.

[Kathianne]

Biden falling back on Ukraine not a member of NATO so we are not bound to defend. Despite all THOSE promises.

Yep. No reason to assume responsibility for past promises, recent or further ago. What could go wrong?

[Kathianne]

Yep. No reason to assume responsibility for past promises, recent or further ago. What could go wrong?

BTW no one is/was talking about troops or offensive weapons, all about defensive equipment.

[Gunny]

BTW no one is/was talking about troops or offensive weapons, all about defensive equipment.Changing words always changes the nature of the deed. Didn't get the memo?:rolleyes:

The US secy of def was sec of war once upon a time.

"Dual use" eqiup means it can be sold to bad actors. Weapons means no.

SOS

[Kathianne]

Changing words always changes the nature of the deed. Didn't get the memo?:rolleyes:

The US secy of def was sec of war once upon a time.

"Dual use" eqiup means it can be sold to bad actors. Weapons means no.

SOS
I've never been into weapons, but even I understand the difference between missiles for launching for hundreds of miles and those designed to shoot down incoming missiles or flying aircraft.

If I'm understanding what's at stake, if Ukrainians can just keep harassing the Russians long enough, they've a chance of causing Putin trouble at home. What's 'long enough?' Haven't heard anything on that.

[Gunny]

I've never been into weapons, but even I understand the difference between missiles for launching for hundreds of miles and those designed to shoot down incoming missiles or flying aircraft.

If I'm understanding what's at stake, if Ukrainians can just keep harassing the Russians long enough, they've a chance of causing Putin trouble at home. What's 'long enough?' Haven't heard anything on that.

Putin stands to lose a lot. He needs a quick turnaround. Smooth invasion, smooth transition of power, and the ability to quickly make use of Ukraine's resources. Any failure of those and he's got problems. Maybe. Don't forget mutual assistance with Pooh bear who I suspect is willing to bankroll Putin to a point.

As long as we're doing business with China, we're doing business with Russia.

Ukraine will have to weather initial shock/humanitarian crisis. Resistance will have to do what it always does -- focus on weak points and depriving Russia of what it's after, or making the price too high. Ukraine is already arming anyone that will fight.

[Gunny]

Website is down to Ukrainian weightlifter I know. Kyiv.

[Kathianne]

Website is down to Ukrainian weightlifter I know. Kyiv.

Pretty sure all outside communications were cut off last night.

[Gunny]

Pretty sure all outside communications were cut off last night.Then there are our own politicians. What f ups :rolleyes:

Maybe we NEED a cruise missile or two to land on our asses and wake some of these idiots up to reality.

[Kathianne]

Then there are our own politicians. What f ups :rolleyes:

Maybe we NEED a cruise missile or two to land on our asses and wake some of these idiots up to reality.
Be careful what you wish for.

[Gunny]

Be careful what you wish for.ii Back to the OP, and being careful what I wish for, I suspect if nothing is done physically to stop Russia, Taiwan can start counting days.

There is no good going to come of any of this. Not stopping it now will just make more to clean up. If anything is left. Putin's making a pretty hefty threat.

[Kathianne]

ii Back to the OP, and being careful what I wish for, I suspect if nothing is done physically to stop Russia, Taiwan can start counting days.

There is no good going to come of any of this. Not stopping it now will just make more to clean up. If anything is left. Putin's making a pretty hefty threat.
It's no longer a threat. Some civilian targets destroyed and documented.

[Gunny]

It's no longer a threat. Some civilian targets destroyed and documented.Referring to other thread I posted. Putin is threatening worst ever will happen to anyone interfering with invasion from outside. Only thing he has to carry that out is nukes.

[Kathianne]

Referring to other thread I posted. Putin is threatening worst ever will happen to anyone interfering with invasion from outside. Only thing he has to carry that out is nukes.

I heard his implied threats, didn't get much sleep. It's hard to believe he's lost it that bad, though just hearing Russian forces gained control of Chernoble.

[BoogyMan]

China has been doing this to Taiwan for the last few years, but to do so the day after Xi’s buddy takes Ukraine is a truly bad bad sign of how things are likely to go. Putin and Xi walk arm in arm and most likely will support each other in any kind of actions taken.

It is as if these guys are reading the history of the lead up to WWII and are checking the boxes.

[Kathianne]

China has been doing this to Taiwan for the last few years, but to do so the day after Xi’s buddy takes Ukraine is a truly bad bad sign of how things are likely to go. Putin and Xi walk arm in arm and most likely will support each other in any kind of actions taken.

It is as if these guys are reading the history of the lead up to WWII and are checking the boxes.
I think it was about 2 years ago a dod report stated US not able to fight a 2 front war.

[BoogyMan]

Bingo!


I think it was about 2 years ago a dod report stated US not able to fight a 2 front war.

[Gunny]

I think it was about 2 years ago a dod report stated US not able to fight a 2 front war.Was just thinking about that. The US military has gone through a neglect period longer than just Carter years. 8 years of Obama and current idiot. Don't recall Trump doing much. Last real overhaul I remember was beginning of GWB admin.

We would have to mobilize on a WWII scale to even hope to fight China and Russia. And of course the other bad actors that will be drawn to their sides.

Thinking about that, I'm remembering how we reacted as a nation to a virus.:rolleyes:

[Kathianne]

Was just thinking about that. The US military has gone through a neglect period longer than just Carter years. 8 years of Obama and current idiot. Don't recall Trump doing much. Last real overhaul I remember was beginning of GWB admin.

We would have to mobilize on a WWII scale to even hope to fight China and Russia. And of course the other bad actors that will be drawn to their sides.

Thinking about that, I'm remembering how we reacted as a nation to a virus.:rolleyes:

Indeed.

Having time to get correct spelling of Chernybol, hearing with it under Russian control and workers taken prisoners, the Russians have straight shot to Kiev, since radioactivity has let land without people.

Meanwhile, Russian have control of Kiev airport.

[Kathianne]

I'm still screwed in spelling.

[Gunny]

Indeed.

Having time to get correct spelling of Chernybol, hearing with it under Russian control and workers taken prisoners, the Russians have straight shot to Kiev, since radioactivity has let land without people.

Meanwhile, Russian have control of Kiev airport.Such a shame.

While Western Europe US does nothing. There's this:https://www.oann.com/explainer-how-western-sanctions-will-target-russia/

Words :rolleyes:

[Gunny]

While NATO is guaranteeing Putin no troops, anyone heard so much as a peep from the UN?:rolleyes:

I wouldn't want to be around either. The smell of so many pussies shitting their pants at once in closed rooms would be way too much.

[Kathianne]

Go ahead with sanctions. Add in resumption of Keystone and fraking!

[Gunny]

Go ahead with sanctions. Add in resumption of Keystone and fraking!

We haven't even gotten to our internal politics. I agree we need to turn the oils spigot back on.

Meanwhile, some progressives led by who else but AOC and far-right Putin (and Trump) worshippers have their requests in for Biden to not declare war without Congressional approval. As if :rolleyes:

I don't see Biden doing anything smart like getting our industries/self-sufficiency back on line.