I Know Ukrainian Government Is Reknown For Corruption

[Kathianne]

It's the reason they've not been admitted to NATO. Yet, I cannot but admire the president and his rallying his people to fight, against a state-of-the-art military. They lost the airport and recaptured it. Granted, not likely to hold, but the longer they hang on, the worse for Putin and his war is not playing well at home or anywhere but maybe China and Iran.

Here's a link with quite a lot of his speaking in past 24+ hours:

https://www.foxnews.com/live-news/russian-forces-attack-kyiv-explosion-wracks-ukrainian-capital-live-updates

[Gunny]

Good a place as any :) Ran across this last night on cell. Tossing out as possibility. Ukraine's biggest trade partner? China. Bumped Russia to #3.

China went on record this morning will continue normal trade relations. Russia can trade overland with China.

Billions of trade money going to Russia instead of Ukraine if Putin can make it work. Will offset part of sanctions.

Also, because of years and years and years of economic sanctions, Russia's debt to the West is nowhere near what it was.

[Gunny]

China has dropped restrictions on wheat imports from russia

[revelarts]

Is America Training Neonazis in Ukraine?

Officially no, but no one in the U.S. government seems to know for sure.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/is-america-training-neonazis-in-ukraine

"There are no doubts about the neo-Nazi and white supremacist background of the Azov Battalion, a militia that has positioned itself at the forefront of the fight against Russian-backed separatists in eastern Ukraine. As the founder and head of the battalion Andriy Biletsky once put it, “The historic mission of our nation in this critical moment is to lead the White Races of the world in a final crusade for their survival.”

That Russian President Vladimir Putin and his propagandists exploit this fact, using it to build support for their aggression and to undermine the international effort to help Ukraine defend its independence, is undeniable. But knowing that, and wanting to resist that, does not resolve some very important questions about the basic facts.

What is the relationship of the U.S. government to these people? Is it training them? Might it arm them? Is this, like the Afghan war of the 1980s, one of those cases where we aid and abet the kind of monsters who eventually become our enemies? Concerns about that possibility have been growing on Capitol Hill.

Because of uncertainties surrounding the Azov Battalion’s role in the U.S. training initiative and worries about the possible supply of shoulder-held anti-aircraft missiles to such characters, the House unanimously adopted bipartisan amendments to H.R. 2685, the “Department of Defense Appropriations Act of 2015.” And one of them specifically blocks training of the “Ukrainian neo-Nazi paramilitary militia ‘Azov Battalion.’” Representatives John Conyers and Ted Yoho sponsored the amendment to the bill, which was passed unanimously by Congress.

In an interview with The Daily Beast, Sgt. Ivan Kharkiv of the Azov battalion talks about his battalion’s experience with U.S. trainers and U.S. volunteers quite fondly, even mentioning U.S. volunteers engineers and medics that are still currently assisting them. He also talks about the significant and active support from the Ukrainian diaspora in the U.S. As for the training they have and continue to receive from numerous foreign armed forces. Kharkiv says “We must take knowledge from all armies… We pay for our mistakes with our lives.”

Those U.S. officials involved in the vetting process obviously have instructions to say that U.S. forces are not training the Azov Battalion as such. They also say that Azov members are screened out, yet no one seems to know precisely how that’s done. In fact, given the way the Ukrainian government operates, it’s almost impossible.

The Ukrainian Ministry of Interior brings what one U.S. official calls a “mishmash” of troops, consisting of volunteers, members of militia battalions and official army to be trained, and the Leahy process exists to check and see if any have committed a “gross violation of human rights,” which most likely they have not—at least not yet. But much less care is given to the question of ideology. When officials are asked for details of any kind regarding how the vetting process actually functions, answers are ambiguous, details are scarce and the explanations become contradictory...."

[Gunny]

:rolleyes:

[Kathianne]

Is America Training Neonazis in Ukraine?

Officially no, but no one in the U.S. government seems to know for sure.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/is-america-training-neonazis-in-ukraine

"There are no doubts about the neo-Nazi and white supremacist background of the Azov Battalion, a militia that has positioned itself at the forefront of the fight against Russian-backed separatists in eastern Ukraine. As the founder and head of the battalion Andriy Biletsky once put it, “The historic mission of our nation in this critical moment is to lead the White Races of the world in a final crusade for their survival.”

That Russian President Vladimir Putin and his propagandists exploit this fact, using it to build support for their aggression and to undermine the international effort to help Ukraine defend its independence, is undeniable. But knowing that, and wanting to resist that, does not resolve some very important questions about the basic facts.

What is the relationship of the U.S. government to these people? Is it training them? Might it arm them? Is this, like the Afghan war of the 1980s, one of those cases where we aid and abet the kind of monsters who eventually become our enemies? Concerns about that possibility have been growing on Capitol Hill.

Because of uncertainties surrounding the Azov Battalion’s role in the U.S. training initiative and worries about the possible supply of shoulder-held anti-aircraft missiles to such characters, the House unanimously adopted bipartisan amendments to H.R. 2685, the “Department of Defense Appropriations Act of 2015.” And one of them specifically blocks training of the “Ukrainian neo-Nazi paramilitary militia ‘Azov Battalion.’” Representatives John Conyers and Ted Yoho sponsored the amendment to the bill, which was passed unanimously by Congress.

In an interview with The Daily Beast, Sgt. Ivan Kharkiv of the Azov battalion talks about his battalion’s experience with U.S. trainers and U.S. volunteers quite fondly, even mentioning U.S. volunteers engineers and medics that are still currently assisting them. He also talks about the significant and active support from the Ukrainian diaspora in the U.S. As for the training they have and continue to receive from numerous foreign armed forces. Kharkiv says “We must take knowledge from all armies… We pay for our mistakes with our lives.”

Those U.S. officials involved in the vetting process obviously have instructions to say that U.S. forces are not training the Azov Battalion as such. They also say that Azov members are screened out, yet no one seems to know precisely how that’s done. In fact, given the way the Ukrainian government operates, it’s almost impossible.

The Ukrainian Ministry of Interior brings what one U.S. official calls a “mishmash” of troops, consisting of volunteers, members of militia battalions and official army to be trained, and the Leahy process exists to check and see if any have committed a “gross violation of human rights,” which most likely they have not—at least not yet. But much less care is given to the question of ideology. When officials are asked for details of any kind regarding how the vetting process actually functions, answers are ambiguous, details are scarce and the explanations become contradictory...."

I'm pretty sure that when a country is attacked from without, no one responding to carnage or response gives a fig what the other guys political or religious thoughts are. Down the road, if one survives, maybe then.

[Gunny]

I'm pretty sure that when a country is attacked from without, no one responding to carnage or response gives a fig what the other guys political or religious thoughts are. Down the road, if one survives, maybe then.I'm kind of wondering where these CIA-trained Nazi's are. Apparently rev's and Putin's fears have not come to fruition :rolleyes:
revelarts : The "It's the US's fault" thread has Venezuela in the title. Just sayin ...:smoke:

[BoogyMan]

It appears that president pudding-brains tried to pull in Xi and China on this and China turned around and dutifully reported the information to Putin.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/25/us/politics/us-china-russia-ukraine.html


China has dropped restrictions on wheat imports from russia

[Kathianne]

Pretty straight up support Xi for Putin: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/china-supports-russia-amid-ukraine-invasion-backs-putins-ready-negotiations

[Gunny]

Pretty straight up support Xi for Putin: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/china-supports-russia-amid-ukraine-invasion-backs-putins-ready-negotiations

Won't happen, but as far as I'm concerned, if Pooh wants to play that, hit PRC with the exact same sanctions as Russia.

If we're going to do this then let's do it.

[Kathianne]

Between this marine and the guards of the island, the Ukrainians have gained some heroes in 72 hours. Imagine facing down a warship and instead of surrendering, shouting, F-you!:

https://www.foxnews.com/world/ukrainian-marine-sacrifices-himself-to-blow-up-bridge-ukrainian-military-says

[revelarts]

I'm pretty sure that when a country is attacked from without, no one responding to carnage or response gives a fig what the other guys political or religious thoughts are. Down the road, if one survives, maybe then.

Sooo like when the U.S invaded Iraq? (or Nicaragua or Panama? etc)

"when a country is attacked from without, no one responding to carnage or response gives a fig what the other guys political or religious thoughts are."

But Hey I'm sure we invaded them all with carnage for their on good ... just like Putin says he's doing.
Except Putin is lying while the U.S. never lies about reasons for invasions.

[Kathianne]

Perhaps this is Putin's true stumbling block. Seems Russians aren't keen on war of aggression:

https://www.foxnews.com/world/russia-ukraine-anti-war-protests-continue-moscow-st-petersburg

[Kathianne]

I don't think they can win against Russia, but they may well win in long run. Time will tell:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ukraine-invasion-slower-more-resistance

[Kathianne]

Sooo like when the U.S invaded Iraq? (or Nicaragua or Panama? etc)

"when a country is attacked from without, no one responding to carnage or response gives a fig what the other guys political or religious thoughts are."

But Hey I'm sure we invaded them all with carnage for their on good ... just like Putin says he's doing.
Except Putin is lying while the U.S. never lies about reasons for invasions.

And the public turned against it, right? I understood why at the time, but hindsight is 20/20.

[Kathianne]

Well, well:

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/china-restrict-financing-russia-ukraina-invasion

[Gunny]

Sooo like when the U.S invaded Iraq? (or Nicaragua or Panama? etc)

"when a country is attacked from without, no one responding to carnage or response gives a fig what the other guys political or religious thoughts are."

But Hey I'm sure we invaded them all with carnage for their on good ... just like Putin says he's doing.
Except Putin is lying while the U.S. never lies about reasons for invasions.If you don't get off your "US is the bad guy" bullshit trolling, we AIN'T going to get along.

This is about Russia and Ukraine. If you want to harp against the US, start a new thread or revive one of your many where you already have done so.

[Gunny]

Perhaps this is Putin's true stumbling block. Seems Russians aren't keen on war of aggression:

https://www.foxnews.com/world/russia-ukraine-anti-war-protests-continue-moscow-st-petersburgOr we see how long Putin tolerates this. Russian troops firing on their own people. Not the first time.

[Gunny]

Well, well:

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/china-restrict-financing-russia-ukraina-invasionKeeping a safe distance so China doesn't get caught up on the wrong side of sanctions.

I think it's talking out both sides of his mouth. As I pointed out somewhere, Pooh's already lifted wheat restrictions AND they can trade overland where there's nothing anyone can do.

[Gunny]

Between this marine and the guards of the island, the Ukrainians have gained some heroes in 72 hours. Imagine facing down a warship and instead of surrendering, shouting, F-you!:

https://www.foxnews.com/world/ukrainian-marine-sacrifices-himself-to-blow-up-bridge-ukrainian-military-saysMarines have issues :)

[Kathianne]

Keeping a safe distance so China doesn't get caught up on the wrong side of sanctions.

I think it's talking out both sides of his mouth. As I pointed out somewhere, Pooh's already lifted wheat restrictions AND they can trade overland where there's nothing anyone can do.
And then China abstained instead of standing with Putin in UN. Russia has a veto and exercised it, still all but Russia voted to condemn with China, India, and UAE abstaining.