Hey Gunny How About Some Thoughts

[Kathianne]

Possible? All the Intel said 3 days at most. . .

https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2022/03/12/is-russia-going-to-lose-n454888

[jimnyc]

Possible? All the Intel said 3 days at most. . .

https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2022/03/12/is-russia-going-to-lose-n454888

I thought Russia could have easily destroyed them if they wanted to. Then I knew if they went piece by piece it would be more difficult - but I had no idea that it would be like this, that Ukraine would be holding their own.

With that said, I would say that Russia has more or less lost already as a result. To an extent, they now look weaker to others. I still know if they put the full weight of their forces they still would overwhelm them, but with what they have there now they should have been able to. Instead it's been embarrassing.

[Kathianne]

I thought Russia could have easily destroyed them if they wanted to. Then I knew if they went piece by piece it would be more difficult - but I had no idea that it would be like this, that Ukraine would be holding their own.

With that said, I would say that Russia has more or less lost already as a result. To an extent, they now look weaker to others. I still know if they put the full weight of their forces they still would overwhelm them, but with what they have there now they should have been able to. Instead it's been embarrassing.
Which scenario do you forsee?

[jimnyc]

Which scenario do you forsee?

I'm honestly not sure. I am still not sure WTF Putin's end goals are here? Does he want to capture and/or kill Zelensky? Just overtake every major city and turn them all Russian? Turn Ukraine into Russian territory? I don't know.

What I see is a fucked up situation and a quagmire for some time to come - and talks and talk and more failed talks - and then eventually some form of compromise giving Putin whatever his desires are. At this point though, it would appear that he will be settling for much less than whatever the F his original goals were.

There will be much much more loss of life unless they magically come to a settlement soon, which I don't see happening. I think Russia is going to see mass losses as well as they keep continuing to march forward. I also think that eventually all of the weapons that are making their way into Ukraine will take their toll on the Russians. Sadly, there will be a lot of losses to come on both sides.

How quickly any compromise may happen is anyone's guess. Russia and Ukraine could last for months, years, or be over in a few weeks.

[Kathianne]

I'm honestly not sure. I am still not sure WTF Putin's end goals are here? Does he want to capture and/or kill Zelensky? Just overtake every major city and turn them all Russian? Turn Ukraine into Russian territory? I don't know.

What I see is a fucked up situation and a quagmire for some time to come - and talks and talk and more failed talks - and then eventually some form of compromise giving Putin whatever his desires are. At this point though, it would appear that he will be settling for much less than whatever the F his original goals were.

There will be much much more loss of life unless they magically come to a settlement soon, which I don't see happening. I think Russia is going to see mass losses as well as they keep continuing to march forward. I also think that eventually all of the weapons that are making their way into Ukraine will take their toll on the Russians. Sadly, there will be a lot of losses to come on both sides.

How quickly any compromise may happen is anyone's guess. Russia and Ukraine could last for months, years, or be over in a few weeks.
I can see a total siege by Russia, with huge losses of both lives and historic buildings. The Ukrainians will continue to harass with some success. Suddenly the Russians will abandon whether because of supplies, money, or military just says,"enough."

Pretty much scenario #3.

I'm probably over optimistic, but like I said earlier, the Intel was so very off.

[jimnyc]

I can see a total siege by Russia, with huge losses of both lives and historic buildings. The Ukrainians will continue to harass with some success. Suddenly the Russians will abandon whether because of supplies, money, or military just says,"enough."

Pretty much scenario #3.

I'm probably over optimistic, but like I said earlier, the Intel was so very off.

That's the saddest thing - is that even if it were to be over today, and slowly all of the Ukrainians make their way back home - just how long is it already going to take to fix and repair things? And we know it's not over, so just how bad will the infrastructure get over time, and the loss of folks homes and more.

[Kathianne]

That's the saddest thing - is that even if it were to be over today, and slowly all of the Ukrainians make their way back home - just how long is it already going to take to fix and repair things? And we know it's not over, so just how bad will the infrastructure get over time, and the loss of folks homes and more.
Some of Ukraine architecture is over 1k years old. Irreplaceable. As for recovery, post WWII Germany and Japan.

[jimnyc]

Some of Ukraine architecture is over 1k years old. Irreplaceable. As for recovery, post WWII Germany and Japan.

That sucks when priceless museums and other buildings and artifacts are lost. And even worse if the enemy may target them on purpose.

[icansayit]

After Putin has his military destroy all of The Ukraine. What will he have left?
MOSCOW and the entire nation of Russia are near Bankruptcy, even with their oil, and the happy DONATIONS OF JOE BIDEN...last week gave Putin 83 Billion dollars.
So how will Putin somehow perform a MARSHAL PLAN type of reconstruction...BROKE?

[Kathianne]

After Putin has his military destroy all of The Ukraine. What will he have left?
MOSCOW and the entire nation of Russia are near Bankruptcy, even with their oil, and the happy DONATIONS OF JOE BIDEN...last week gave Putin 83 Billion dollars.
So how will Putin somehow perform a MARSHAL PLAN type of reconstruction...BROKE?

Putin isn't broke, Russia is. If putin doesn't win, he's done. He's probably done regardless.

[Gunny]

Some of Ukraine architecture is over 1k years old. Irreplaceable. As for recovery, post WWII Germany and Japan.I'll do this one first then get back to the OP:

Kyiv is one of the oldest cities in Europe. It's architecture is priceless. All that history and culture destroyed for one man's warped ambition to recreate a lost empire.

Putin should be tried for war crimes for that alone, in addition to anything else. Blabbing about history out of one side of his mouth while bombing it to rubble out pf the other. Despicable POS.

[Gunny]

I think he'll stay his course. There's no way he can just turn around and go home empty-handed. No way out AND save face.

It is amazing. Biden has a twin. Putin has misjudged at every turn, compounding them at every turn. The two most powerful men in the World with nuclear weapons at their disposal are doddering old fools :laugh:

[Gunny]

Being a tad more serious ... because Putin has cornered himself, he can't do anything but attack. We're sitting here watching him kick his own ass, from a certain POV.

So, if he stays his current course and reduces every major city to rubble, what then? Where exactly does he see this going for him?

He just destroyed the infrastructure that supports the industries that would net him any gains/allow him to capitalize on captured Ukranian resources.

The list of who he can trade any aforementioned resources with is pretty short. Most markets are off limits for him to trade with.

He has a chunk of land he does not have the means to occupy filled with a population that presumably is going to wage an insurgency he will eventually lose to. I suppose in his miscalculations he thinks the Ukranians will stand idly by as he rebuilds industry to milk Ukraine's resources :rolleyes:

I see staying his course is about as smart as he gets. His best option in MY opinion is to step down, hand over the reins on condition he not be prosecuted. For all those that want their pound of flesh and hate that idea and want him to pay, it saves the most Russian and Ukranian lives to let one POS live in exile. We (the US especially) have made worse deals for less gains.