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avatar4321
10-06-2007, 06:16 AM
I am curious, are there any good books to study military tactics. Even if I never end up joining the military, it is fascinating and Id love to learn for myself tactics and understand what it takes to defeat the enemy.

diuretic
10-06-2007, 06:24 AM
Even though I have no military experience I can advise, yes, there are lots of texts and they are freely available. Having said that I am going to add that it's the limit of my knowledge.

I do remember, many years ago, the BBC used to have a weekly tv programme hosted by General Sir Brian Horrocks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Horrocks

There was (this is in the 1960s) no flashy computer-generated images, no whizz-bang noises, no detailed replication of battles or conversations using actors, just General Horrocks - aided by the occasional image or model - explaining what happened in some of the world's greatest battles. It was riveting stuff and he presented it brilliantly. I don't suppose you'd find a dvd of them now but if there was a dvd of that series I'd grab it immediately.

5stringJeff
10-07-2007, 04:43 PM
Sun Tzu's The Art of War.

Gaffer
10-07-2007, 08:34 PM
Jeff's right on that The Art of War is a good start. Also look into the War College, they may offer some interesting reading as well. Just about any history book about specific battles will talk about the tactics used in the battle.

It depends on what your looking for as well. There are squad level tactics (tactical) up to strategic level. The more troops, the more involved the tactics become.

Guernicaa
10-07-2007, 09:15 PM
Even if I never end up joining the military
(Which you wont)

Avatar, you're just one of many young chickenhawk Republicans demanding we stay in Iraq and yet at the same time coming up with some type of excuse as to why you aren't over there serving.
Lemme guess yours..."It just isn't for me"...."I'm going to college"...

The truth is, there is no excuse as to why you aren't over there. It appears most of avatar and his Republican peers prefer to be cheerleaders instead of actually getting into the game they support.

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avatar4321
10-08-2007, 09:13 AM
Sun Tzu's The Art of War.

read it. very confusing book. maybe because its a translation. i plan to read it again soon though.

avatar4321
10-08-2007, 09:14 AM
(Which you wont)

Avatar, you're just one of many young chickenhawk Republicans demanding we stay in Iraq and yet at the same time coming up with some type of excuse as to why you aren't over there serving.
Lemme guess yours..."It just isn't for me"...."I'm going to college"...

The truth is, there is no excuse as to why you aren't over there. It appears most of avatar and his Republican peers prefer to be cheerleaders instead of actually getting into the game they support.

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I dont see you serving.

Oh thats right. Rather than support the troops or serve youd rather just be a coward.

Sir Evil
10-08-2007, 09:18 AM
Rather than support the troops or serve youd rather just be a coward.

Or a White Stripes groupie! :D

diuretic
10-08-2007, 09:28 AM
read it. very confusing book. maybe because its a translation. i plan to read it again soon though.

I tried to read it, realised when I was halfway through it I couldn't understand it because I was holding it upside down - those pictograms are hell.

truthmatters
10-08-2007, 09:55 AM
Why should those who are against this war go fight in it?

If you thought the war was wrong would you sign up to fight in it?

Those who think this is a worthy scarafice for our country and are of age should be signing up for duty. If you are willing to let another American do the scaraficing and not willing to put your money where your mouth is than YOU are the one who is letting others sacrafice in your stead.

Those who feel we are not fighting in Americas best interest are right not to sign up. The fewer there are to fight it the sooner we will have to come home.

The more there are to fight this war the better for Bush. If you like what Bush is doing and refuse to help than YOU ARE A CHICKEN HAWK and are willing to bluster about the war but too chicken shit to sacrafice what you insist others should sacrafice for you.

I have friends who believed in this war so they signed up and they have MY FULL SUPPORT. You who refuse to go help them in what you "say" you believe in you have some self examination to undergo. There are people over there right now with kids ,wifes , house payments and they still went because they have the Decency to truely support what they say they stand for. Many on the right refuse to actually support what they say they stand for . They just let others do their dirty business.

avatar4321
10-08-2007, 10:07 AM
Why should those who are against this war go fight in it?

If you thought the war was wrong would you sign up to fight in it?

Those who think this is a worthy scarafice for our country and are of age should be signing up for duty. If you are willing to let another American do the scaraficing and not willing to put your money where your mouth is than YOU are the one who is letting others sacrafice in your stead.

Those who feel we are not fighting in Americas best interest are right not to sign up. The fewer there are to fight it the sooner we will have to come home.

The more there are to fight this war the better for Bush. If you like what Bush is doing and refuse to help than YOU ARE A CHICKEN HAWK and are willing to bluster about the war but too chicken shit to sacrafice what you insist others should sacrafice for you.

I have friends who believed in this war so they signed up and they have MY FULL SUPPORT. You who refuse to go help them in what you "say" you believe in you have some self examination to undergo. There are people over there right now with kids ,wifes , house payments and they still went because they have the Decency to truely support what they say they stand for. Many on the right refuse to actually support what they say they stand for . They just let others do their dirty business.

Those who complain about others not fighting who arent fighting themselves are hypocrites. I know how you on the left love hypocrites.

Of course, its too much to ask that you or anyone else on the left have some sort of standards. Its too much to ask you to support the troops. Oh you have no problem benefiting from what the troops do by protecting our rights to free speech to attack them. You have no problem attacking everything the troops do.

So why should we listen to you who doesnt even have the decency to support the people dying to protect you when you talk about decency?

I am so sick and tired of you guys preaching standards you refuse to live.

avatar4321
10-08-2007, 10:07 AM
I tried to read it, realised when I was halfway through it I couldn't understand it because I was holding it upside down - those pictograms are hell.

like i said, its a translation. Not easy to understand.

truthmatters
10-08-2007, 10:15 AM
Those who complain about others not fighting who arent fighting themselves are hypocrites. I know how you on the left love hypocrites.

Of course, its too much to ask that you or anyone else on the left have some sort of standards. Its too much to ask you to support the troops. Oh you have no problem benefiting from what the troops do by protecting our rights to free speech to attack them. You have no problem attacking everything the troops do.

So why should we listen to you who doesnt even have the decency to support the people dying to protect you when you talk about decency?

I am so sick and tired of you guys preaching standards you refuse to live.
'

Where have I EVER said anything which indicated I dont support the troops?

You are now just LYING!

I dont support this president or this war. The troops I always support no matter what we order them to do. They dont make policy they do what the president tells them to do.

You are young enough to go fight and you refuse to do so.....WHY?

My son wants to join the military and is putting it off because he does not want to be forced to fight in a war he knows is harming America. If he believed in this war he would already be there. YOU REFUSE TO FIGHT!

Guernicaa
10-08-2007, 11:38 AM
I dont see you serving.

Oh thats right. Rather than support the troops or serve youd rather just be a coward.
Have you ever heard of the saying "If you're going to talk the talk then walk the walk" ????
I'm not the one rallying that we stay in Iraq. I don't support what we're doing there. But on the other hand, you're one of the ones demanding that we stay there and rallying the cause. Therefore you should be over there.

If you "supported" the troops you'd be right over there helping them out. Not being a cheerleader.

truthmatters
10-08-2007, 11:44 AM
The military can use lawyers too . Didnt you just pass the bar?

Go sign up and see what you can do for your country instead of having OTHERS do the work you say is crucial to the protection of our country.

Come on avatar walk the walk instead of just talking the talk!

Abbey
10-08-2007, 02:51 PM
The military can use lawyers too . Didnt you just pass the bar?

Go sign up and see what you can do for your country instead of having OTHERS do the work you say is crucial to the protection of our country.

Come on avatar walk the walk instead of just talking the talk!

Hey, Avatar, Matters wants you to join the military. Maybe she wants you to defend our soldiers at Gitmo. :coffee:

truthmatters
10-08-2007, 03:23 PM
I want those who talk the talk to walk the walk. I know several other people who backed what they said about this war with REAL support for the war.They joined up.

Abbey
10-08-2007, 03:28 PM
I want those who talk the talk to walk the walk. I know several other people who backed what they said about this war with REAL support for the war.They joined up.

Which do you think is more supportive: joining the military or protesting the war?

Guernicaa
10-08-2007, 05:08 PM
Which do you think is more supportive: joining the military or protesting the war?
Who said we ever "supported"???

I don't support ANYTHING that we're doing in Iraq. Therefore, protesting seems much more supportive in my case.

Avatar is just a typical pussy, Cheney-style fat ass.

truthmatters
10-08-2007, 05:21 PM
Which do you think is more supportive: joining the military or protesting the war?

Supportive of what?

Protesting a war you believe is harming our country including the military of our country is both supportive of the military and the country.

Saying this war is nessesary for our counrty to protect its self and then not being willing to fight for what you claim is nessesary when troops are having go back 3 and 4 times due to lack of personel is not putting your butt where your mouth is.

You think this war is good for us then go fight.

I think every fricking day we are there makes more terrorists now and far into the future.

ITs makes us more hated arround the world.

Its spilling the blood of our bravest.

Its throwing our treasure in the wind.

IT IS WHAT I AND MANY AMERICANS BELIEVE!

Why in the hell would I not fight against an admin who I think is wrecking our county?

Why would I send my son to die in such a war?


This is why I hate Bush so much. He is destroying my country.


You think its all just great and makes you all warm inside to see all this happening. Great for you go fight and send you kids to fight. Tell them to put off college like all those WWII vets did and go risk their lives to "save" their country.

Guernicaa
10-08-2007, 06:23 PM
Supportive of what?

Protesting a war you believe is harming our country including the military of our country is both supportive of the military and the country.

Saying this war is nessesary for our counrty to protect its self and then not being willing to fight for what you claim is nessesary when troops are having go back 3 and 4 times due to lack of personel is not putting your butt where your mouth is.
You think this war is good for us then go fight.

I think every fricking day we are there makes more terrorists now and far into the future.

ITs makes us more hated arround the world.

Its spilling the blood of our bravest.

Its throwing our treasure in the wind.

IT IS WHAT I AND MANY AMERICANS BELIEVE!

Why in the hell would I not fight against an admin who I think is wrecking our county?

Why would I send my son to die in such a war?


This is why I hate Bush so much. He is destroying my country.


You think its all just great and makes you all warm inside to see all this happening. Great for you go fight and send you kids to fight. Tell them to put off college like all those WWII vets did and go risk their lives to "save" their country.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

manu1959
10-08-2007, 06:28 PM
Saying this war is nessesary for our counrty to protect its self and then not being willing to fight for what you claim is nessesary when troops are having go back 3 and 4 times due to lack of personel is not putting your butt where your mouth is.


you do know in wwII they went till they won....were severly injured or died....

manu1959
10-08-2007, 06:59 PM
I want those who talk the talk to walk the walk. I know several other people who backed what they said about this war with REAL support for the war.They joined up.

what walk are you walking?.....

Guernicaa
10-08-2007, 07:17 PM
what walk are you walking?.....
Shes showing up at protests.

manu1959
10-08-2007, 07:34 PM
Shes showing up at protests.

oh the sacrifice that must be.......smoking dope and chanting bush lied people died.....

truthmatters
10-08-2007, 07:43 PM
Im not asking people to die for failed policy you are.

avatar4321
10-08-2007, 07:44 PM
Hey, Avatar, Matters wants you to join the military. Maybe she wants you to defend our soldiers at Gitmo. :coffee:

Personally, I'd have no problem with it. In fact, I even mentioned that I was considering it. But the major factor preventing me from majorly considering it is that I am not at the health standard that would be needed. Its not lack of desire, but physical ability to do so thats the issue.

avatar4321
10-08-2007, 07:46 PM
Supportive of what?

Protesting a war you believe is harming our country including the military of our country is both supportive of the military and the country.

Saying this war is nessesary for our counrty to protect its self and then not being willing to fight for what you claim is nessesary when troops are having go back 3 and 4 times due to lack of personel is not putting your butt where your mouth is.

You think this war is good for us then go fight.

I think every fricking day we are there makes more terrorists now and far into the future.

ITs makes us more hated arround the world.

Its spilling the blood of our bravest.

Its throwing our treasure in the wind.

IT IS WHAT I AND MANY AMERICANS BELIEVE!

Why in the hell would I not fight against an admin who I think is wrecking our county?

Why would I send my son to die in such a war?


This is why I hate Bush so much. He is destroying my country.


You think its all just great and makes you all warm inside to see all this happening. Great for you go fight and send you kids to fight. Tell them to put off college like all those WWII vets did and go risk their lives to "save" their country.

Im fighting ignoramous like you who are trying to side with our enemies all the time.

Only a fool thinks military combat is the only way to support the troops.

But then you wouldnt know the first thing about supporting the people who defend your right to free speech and your lifestyle.

Gaffer
10-08-2007, 07:47 PM
I have walked the walk and that gives me the right to talk the talk.

Avatar is looking at going into the military. I'm sure he'll make the right decision. That decision will be based on what he wants to do. Not what silly people like obama and tm say he should do based on how he feels about the war.

The war is all about you libs hating Bush. The war itself means nothing to you. Hating Bush is what your all about. It's not a war in iraq. It's a global war of which iraq is a front. We are fighting islam. The more radical element is fighting while the moderates sit back and tacitly support them. The enemy includes shea and sunni groups working together against the west. Countries like iran, syria, sudan, somolia, algeria, southeast asia and even the philipines are involved in this war. It goes way beyond Bush hating which is all you people can center on. Bush is not out to destroy you, al queda and iran are.

iran will be the next front in the war. Are you going to protest that too? We will take the war to them rather than fight it here. Though sometimes I wish it would be brought here just so you fools could see what its like to be on the front line. It's a war of survival not a war against Bush.

You can't see the forest for the Bush and the forest is coming for you.

avatar4321
10-08-2007, 07:48 PM
Im not asking people to die for failed policy you are.

There is nothing failing with the policy despite all your attempts to attack the troops and their mission. And I can guarentee that if you actually supported the troops and stopped trying to throw up roadblocks against everything they did, we would win this war faster with fewer casualties.

truthmatters
10-08-2007, 07:55 PM
Oh its my fault huh?

You are insane

Gaffer
10-08-2007, 08:09 PM
Oh its my fault huh?

You are insane

You are a part of the problem.

mrg666
10-08-2007, 08:23 PM
100 years ago this would have been a very good question however the changes globaly in combat make it nigh on impossible to answer other than dont get shot or buy a bigger bomb :salute:

82Marine89
10-08-2007, 08:30 PM
'

Where have I EVER said anything which indicated I dont support the troops?

You are now just LYING!

I dont support this president or this war. The troops I always support no matter what we order them to do. They dont make policy they do what the president tells them to do.

You are young enough to go fight and you refuse to do so.....WHY?

My son wants to join the military and is putting it off because he does not want to be forced to fight in a war he knows is harming America. If he believed in this war he would already be there. YOU REFUSE TO FIGHT!

You support the troops, you support the war. Every person in the military has enlisted or re-enlisted since this war began. If you claim to support the troops, then you must support this war because if our troops didn't support this war, they would not have joined or they would not have re-enlisted. They knew full well that their actions would send them into combat.

If your son doesn't want to fight, then tell him to become a park ranger. Being in the military means you must be willing to fight and if necessary, kill another person. I do not want someone next to me that didn't want to join because there was a war going on.

Finally, if someone doesn't want to join the military, then that is their right. Last time I checked, this was a volunteer military. Being in the military is not a prerequisite for supporting it.

Abbey
10-08-2007, 08:58 PM
Supportive of what?
...


You tell me what supportive means. I got it from your own post.


Quote from Truthmatters: I want those who talk the talk to walk the walk. I know several other people who backed what they said about this war with REAL support for the war.They joined up.


So, let's try again: Which is more supportive in your mind- joining the militay, as you are haranguing Avatar to do, or protesting the war?

Abbey
10-08-2007, 09:00 PM
Who said we ever "supported"???
...


Truthmatters, Post #17.

diuretic
10-08-2007, 09:39 PM
You support the troops, you support the war. Every person in the military has enlisted or re-enlisted since this war began. If you claim to support the troops, then you must support this war because if our troops didn't support this war, they would not have joined or they would not have re-enlisted. They knew full well that their actions would send them into combat.

If your son doesn't want to fight, then tell him to become a park ranger. Being in the military means you must be willing to fight and if necessary, kill another person. I do not want someone next to me that didn't want to join because there was a war going on.

Finally, if someone doesn't want to join the military, then that is their right. Last time I checked, this was a volunteer military. Being in the military is not a prerequisite for supporting it.

That is simply not right, that assertion You support the troops, you support the war. The two aren't connected. What does "supporting the troops" mean anyway?

If you claim to support the troops, then you must support this war because if our troops didn't support this war, they would not have joined or they would not have re-enlisted. They knew full well that their actions would send them into combat.

Again, not so. A soldier (including the members of all branches of the military) doesn't choose where he or she goes, they obey.

82Marine89
10-08-2007, 09:47 PM
That is simply not right, that assertion You support the troops, you support the war. The two aren't connected. What does "supporting the troops" mean anyway?

If you don't know the meaning, how can you say they aren't connected?


If you claim to support the troops, then you must support this war because if our troops didn't support this war, they would not have joined or they would not have re-enlisted. They knew full well that their actions would send them into combat.

Again, not so. A soldier (including the members of all branches of the military) doesn't choose where he or she goes, they obey.

They knew we were at war and their actions would place them in harms way. They chose to go to war.

manu1959
10-08-2007, 09:56 PM
Im not asking people to die for failed policy you are.

what is the policy?

what are the objective measures that would indicate that it has failed?

manu1959
10-08-2007, 10:02 PM
That is simply not right, that assertion You support the troops, you support the war. The two aren't connected. What does "supporting the troops" mean anyway?

If you claim to support the troops, then you must support this war because if our troops didn't support this war, they would not have joined or they would not have re-enlisted. They knew full well that their actions would send them into combat.

Again, not so. A soldier (including the members of all branches of the military) doesn't choose where he or she goes, they obey.

the fundmental job of the military is to fight a war ..... so you support the employee but don't think they should do the job they signed up for?