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Alik Bahshi
10-26-2022, 04:44 PM
Alik Bahshi

Are Russians ready to die for Ukraine?



Despite the colossal superiority in both the quantitative and technical equipment of the army, Russia is losing in the war with Ukraine. The reason for the failures, first of all, must be sought in the motivation of the soldiers. A similar situation was in the Afghan war, which Russia lost in disgrace. The Ukrainian soldier fights first of all for his land, for living on it the way he wants, speaking his native language and being free from the dictates of Russia, which for some reason decided to control his fate without any rights. And for this Ukrainians are ready to give their lives. One involuntarily recalls the famous phrase of Mustafa Kemal (Ataturk), who led the bloodiest battle of World War I at Gallipoli, “I do not order you to win, I order you to die,” and 74,635 Turkish soldiers obeyed the order, winning this battle.

What is the Russian soldier fighting for, on Ukrainian soil, and is he ready to give his life for victory? According to the plan of the bloody dictator Putin, he was sent to a foreign country for the denazification and demilitarization of Ukraine. So on what basis did Putin decide that power in Ukraine is in the hands of the Nazis, who, in accordance with Nazi ideology, carry out militarization in order to attack Russia. According to Putin, as a result of the 2013 rebellion, Ukrainian fascists seized power in Ukraine, when Alexander Turchinov, as the Nazi, as it should be understood, was elected interim president after the fugitive President Yanukovych. But then strange events uncharacteristic of the fascist regime take place. Half a year later, as a result of popular elections, Petro Poroshenko becomes the president of Ukraine, who was also nothing more than a Nazi, if it was under him that the law on the Ukrainian language was adopted, which received the status of the state language, which caused Putin's rage and indignation. However, the status of the Russian language in Russia is exactly the same, because in accordance with the Constitution of the Russian Federation and the law “On the state language of the Russian Federation” (2005), the Russian language is the state language throughout the country, and this is in a multinational country, which is Russia . Then, in accordance with the logic of Putin, the Nazis are in power in Russia.
However, let's continue about Ukrainian oddities: after the end of Poroshenko's presidential term, in accordance with the Constitution of Ukraine, as a result of again popular elections, Vladimir Zelensky becomes the president of the country, who, according to Putin, is even more of a fascist than Poroshenko. And this is the lifelong dictator of Russia talking about the Jew Zelensky! Moreover, how could it happen that in the fascist country of Ukraine, elections could take place three times, and even three dictators, this is already transcendent nonsense. Hitler, if he could, would roll over in his grave three times. What kind of popular elections can be discussed under the conditions of the fascist regime, and even with the change of dictators?! And an example of this is Putin's regime. In short, the famous world liar Putin has outdone himself by calling Ukraine a Nazi country that needs to be denazified. And, if we take into account Putin's historical delights that Ukrainians and Russians are one people, then his plan for denazification is understandable, that is, the destruction of the Ukrainian nation, in other words, this is called genocide.

As for demilitarization, here Putin, as usual, lied. It is known that before the Russian attack on Ukraine, Ukraine transferred all its nuclear weapons to Russia, and sold the rest of the military equipment to anyone. You have to be crazy to believe in the militarization of Ukraine. As a result of such a reckless attitude towards weapons, and more so, faith in Moscow's assurances of a guarantee of non-aggression (the Budapest Memorandum), Ukraine became in dire need of them after the Russian invasion. It is good that the West, after long hesitation, finally realized that Ukraine is essentially opposed to Nazism, which has revived in Russia, the worst enemy of Democracy (1,2,3), and decided to arm the courageous soldiers of Ukraine. The high motivation of the Ukrainian soldier, combined with Western weapons, changed the situation at the front. Having withstood the first onslaught of the fascist invaders and, having defeated them near Kyiv, and then Kharkov, the Ukrainians moved from defense to expelling the enemy from their native land. Putin is already silent about the denazification and demilitarization of Ukraine, the goal of the war he started has changed for him personally, because the defeat threatens the Fuhrer of the Russian version not only with the loss of power and stolen goods, but also with a tribunal, followed by the inevitable collapse of his beloved Empire of Evil and Lies. (4)

Returning to the issue of Russian motivation in the war with Ukraine, it is well illustrated by a horde of Russians of military age leaving Russia and being rounded up by Putin's security forces. Why should they die in a foreign country? For the palaces and yachts of Putin and his henchmen who hired false propagandists to stupefy the people.


1. Who are they rashists? https://alikbahshi.livejournal.com/83536.html
2. Great Russian chauvinism, and Putin is his Fuhrer. https://alikbahshi.livejournal.com/21133.html
3. The ghost of Hitler haunts Europe. https://alikbahshi.livejournal.com/38049.html
4. Empire of Evil - Empire of Lies. https://alikbahshi.livejournal.com/87696.html



26.10.2022

Original: https://alikbahshi.livejournal.com/88450.html

revelarts
10-26-2022, 05:07 PM
Are Americans ready to die for Ukraine?

Black Diamond
10-26-2022, 05:26 PM
Are Americans ready to die for Ukraine?

Do you mean civilians or military?

fj1200
10-26-2022, 05:33 PM
Are Americans ready to die for Ukraine?

That's not really the correct question. Are Americans ready to die for Poland, Romania, <insert NATO treaty country here>, and beyond? Should Americans have been ready to die for the Sudetenland 90 years ago?

revelarts
10-26-2022, 05:56 PM
Do you mean civilians or military?
yes

revelarts
10-26-2022, 05:57 PM
That's not really the correct question. Are Americans ready to die for Poland, Romania, <insert NATO treaty country here>, and beyond? Should Americans have been ready to die for the Sudetenland 90 years ago?

So Putin IS Hitler then?

Gunny
10-26-2022, 06:07 PM
Are Americans ready to die for Ukraine?Was it even 10 years ago, I wouldn't be here. I'm more than willing to fight with people who are willing to fight for their freedom.

Freedom is not a divine right. You believe too much leftist propaganda. It's earned with blood and held by strength. Nobody's going to give it to you. Anybody that isn't willing to die for their freedom deserves the slavery they consign themselves to.

fj1200
10-26-2022, 06:22 PM
So Putin IS Hitler then?

I don't know if he is or he isn't but to flat out ask if an American is willing to die for Ukraine may not be not asking the correct question or at the very least a short sighted one.

Gunny
10-26-2022, 06:28 PM
I don't know if he is or he isn't but to flat out ask if an American is willing to die for Ukraine may not be not asking the correct question or at the very least a short sighted one.Fearmongering.

Black Diamond
10-26-2022, 06:29 PM
Yeah but this thing could escalate. Maybe the question should be would you surrender Chicago or New York City for Ukraine, Baltics, etc.

Hitler didn't have the power to destroy Manhattan in an hour.

If anyone cares, the doomsday clock is 90 minutes to midnight.

fj1200
10-26-2022, 06:32 PM
Yeah but this thing could escalate.

Yup, it's not 1936 anymore.

Black Diamond
10-26-2022, 06:35 PM
Yup, it's not 1936 anymore.

Come to think of it I think you're right. It's the NATO countries we should be asking would we die for them, not dying for Ukraine. What are the terms of NATO?

fj1200
10-26-2022, 06:41 PM
Come to think of it I think you're right. It's the NATO countries we should be asking would we die for them, not dying for Ukraine. What are the terms of NATO?

Gunny will correct me but my layman's terms, "attack one, attack all."

Black Diamond
10-26-2022, 06:44 PM
Gunny will correct me but my layman's terms, "attack one, attack all."

That's what I thought it was. Do NATO countries have the stones to honor that deal to protect the Baltics? Do we want them to have the stones?

Gunny
10-26-2022, 06:47 PM
Gunny will correct me but my layman's terms, "attack one, attack all."If you are referring to NATO, that is correct. An attack on one is an attack on all.

People who have issues with mutual defense treaties always wait until the shooting starts to bitch about them. They're never reconsidered otherwise.

We gave our word. We are honor-bound to back it up. Anyone talking being dishonorable being the right thing to do has a deaf ear in me.

revelarts
10-27-2022, 02:00 AM
I don't know if he is or he isn't but to flat out ask if an American is willing to die for Ukraine may not be not asking the correct question or at the very least a short sighted one.

the question is real.
And Gunny knows it. people ALREADY have Ukrainian flags hanging on the porches.
If there's going to be Americans fighting in Europe it will be for Ukraine.
Russia has not attacked any NATO countries. NONE.
We are sending AID to Ukraine for war with Russia.
If there's Americans in that war ... if nukes don't fall 1st.... Americans will fight and Die IN and FOR Ukraine.
Americans will try to WIN back Ukrainian territory.
If Americans die in a new European war, it starts and ends in Ukraine and for Ukraine.

the question is real.
At least Gunny is being honest here.
He says he thinks it's the right thing to do.
I disagree, but make no mistake If war starts it's public excuse is for Ukraine's "freedom"/alliance with the western powers/U.S./NATO.
While the long term goal of many war mongers in the west has been the subjugation of Russia.



Was it even 10 years ago, I wouldn't be here. I'm more than willing to fight with people who are willing to fight for their freedom.
Freedom is not a divine right. You believe too much leftist propaganda. It's earned with blood and held by strength. Nobody's going to give it to you. Anybody that isn't willing to die for their freedom deserves the slavery they consign themselves to.

Here's the odd thing to me Gunny. when i mentioned "freedom" a while back you told me something like it's not real, there's no such thing etc etc.
But here you're saying that Ukraine, which was less than 10 years ago, called the most corrupt nation in the world. Is a symbol of freedom.
The same country that a few years ago was bombing it's own people. Is worth fighting along side because they're fighters'
Someones buying propaganda I'm not sure it's just the "leftist".



If you are referring to NATO, that is correct. An attack on one is an attack on all.
People who have issues with mutual defense treaties always wait until the shooting starts to bitch about them. They're never reconsidered otherwise.
We gave our word. We are honor-bound to back it up. Anyone talking being dishonorable being the right thing to do has a deaf ear in me.

We gave our word not to court Ukraine into NATO.
We gave our word not to expand NATO westward so close to Russia. link1 (https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/167707) link2 (https://www.transcend.org/tms/2022/02/us-uk-france-promised-ussr-not-to-expand-nato-east-of-germany-newly-discovered-document-proves/)
(BTW would you like me to list a few hundred(?) promises, agreements & treaties the U.S. has broken over it's history with foreign nations and leaders)

Anyone thinking that we haven't ALREADY been dishonorable concerning this issue needs to double check the history & look at the details.
And if they don't want to see it all, but ONLY want to focus on the parts that make their case for ANOTHER stupid war, then they aren't being honest at that point.

Gunny
10-27-2022, 08:38 AM
the question is real.
And Gunny knows it. people ALREADY have Ukrainian flags hanging on the porches.
If there's going to be Americans fighting in Europe it will be for Ukraine.
Russia has not attacked any NATO countries. NONE.
We are sending AID to Ukraine for war with Russia.
If there's Americans in that war ... if nukes don't fall 1st.... Americans will fight and Die IN and FOR Ukraine.
Americans will try to WIN back Ukrainian territory.
If Americans die in a new European war, it starts and ends in Ukraine and for Ukraine.

the question is real.
At least Gunny is being honest here.
He says he thinks it's the right thing to do.
I disagree, but make no mistake If war starts it's public excuse is for Ukraine's "freedom"/alliance with the western powers/U.S./NATO.
While the long term goal of many war mongers in the west has been the subjugation of Russia.




Here's the odd thing to me Gunny. when i mentioned "freedom" a while back you told me something like it's not real, there's no such thing etc etc.
But here you're saying that Ukraine, which was less than 10 years ago, called the most corrupt nation in the world. Is a symbol of freedom.
The same country that a few years ago was bombing it's own people. Is worth fighting along side because they're fighters'
Someones buying propaganda I'm not sure it's just the "leftist".




We gave our word not to court Ukraine into NATO.
We gave our word not to expand NATO westward so close to Russia. link1 (https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/167707) link2 (https://www.transcend.org/tms/2022/02/us-uk-france-promised-ussr-not-to-expand-nato-east-of-germany-newly-discovered-document-proves/)
(BTW would you like me to list a few hundred(?) promises, agreements & treaties the U.S. has broken over it's history with foreign nations and leaders)

Anyone thinking that we haven't ALREADY been dishonorable concerning this issue needs to double check the history & look at the details.
And if they don't want to see it all, but ONLY want to focus on the parts that make their case for ANOTHER stupid war, then they aren't being honest at that point.

You're trying to take down the wrong person, junior. Your question is patently dishonest and misleading. How many Americans who are not volunteers have died in Ukraine so far? How many US military personnel on a NATO/US military sanctioned mission have died in Ukraine? I didn't think so :rolleyes:

Last comment first: Context is key. I responded to FJ's question about NATO, not Ukraine. My response is correct. We are treaty-bound to support NATO. Minus gymnastics with the syntax, that's giving our word. That still means something to some people.

Russia's unprovoked invasion of Ukraine does not equate to courting Ukraine into NATO. Is Ukraine a NATO member? No. Has any western power/NATO done anything but vacillate over the request by Ukraine, made AFTER Russia's unprovoked invasion? No.

Again, context. "Freedom" is a relative term. That does not however relegate it to cherry-picking to support your wrong argument. You have no idea what freedom is beyond your front door. Your viewpoint is stuck in your own little "I/Me" bubble.

In context: we do not have the freedom in THIS country we once had. Part of the reason is people being too self-absorbed to maintain and fight for it. Back to the front: By comparison, we are one of the freest societies on Earth. Ukraine is Eastern European. At best it has a Western European Worldview of "freedom/democracy".

You keep missing the point (purposefully or not) that Ukraine is trying. They are fighting against annihilation for their idea of freedom while Russia is fighting to take Ukraine with as few Ukrainians left as possible. They've already done it once in recent history.


Buying propaganda? Shoe fits you more than me. Whose BS are spouting? Some "we/the US are bad because people have done things in the past we now judge as bad in hindsight"? Sorry. I wasn't brought up on guilt-tripping the Nation for its success:rolleyes:

Honor? I get my propaganda from the Holy Bible, not the internet, and I answer for no one's but mine. What's the source of yours again?:rolleyes:

I stated I (that's 1st person singular) would fight with those fighting for their freedom. I stand by that. It beats doing one's damnedest to vilify the victims to justify doing nothing. Point is, you have no point unless someone commits our military forces directly into the conflict.

I've already figured out the part where you don't think you should have to fight for anything. You're entitled by whatever you think entitles you. That erroneous mindset can enslave or kill you.

fj1200
10-27-2022, 10:10 AM
the question is real.
And Gunny knows it. people ALREADY have Ukrainian flags hanging on the porches.
If there's going to be Americans fighting in Europe it will be for Ukraine.
Russia has not attacked any NATO countries. NONE.
We are sending AID to Ukraine for war with Russia.
If there's Americans in that war ... if nukes don't fall 1st.... Americans will fight and Die IN and FOR Ukraine.
Americans will try to WIN back Ukrainian territory.
If Americans die in a new European war, it starts and ends in Ukraine and for Ukraine.

the question is real.
At least Gunny is being honest here.
He says he thinks it's the right thing to do.
I disagree, but make no mistake If war starts it's public excuse is for Ukraine's "freedom"/alliance with the western powers/U.S./NATO.
While the long term goal of many war mongers in the west has been the subjugation of Russia.

It's simultaneously a real question, the wrong question, and possibly a short-sighted question. It's real question in that almost no American wants to die for Ukraine. It's the wrong question because nobody would in reality be dying for Ukraine. And it's a short-sighted question because you ignore the downstream effects of what might occur.

There's a million end points of a huge decision tree and you simplify it to much.