Fire in Maui

[SassyLady]

Just heard the schools sent children home because of the storm coming. Parents were still at work. They were not allowed to return home during the fire. I wonder how many children lost their lives that day.

[hjmick]

Sounds like a bullshit conspiracy to me.

If you have a link, post it.

To the best of my knowledge, there was never any threat of the hurricane hitting any of the islands, it was too far South (https://www.staradvertiser.com/2023/08/08/hawaii-news/hurricane-dora-on-track-to-pass-south-of-hawaii/). They had high winds from the storm, and that's what drove the fire, and probably caused downed power lines which they say was most likely the cause of the fires (this is still being investigated).

On top of that, school wasn't even in session (https://mauinow.com/2023/08/08/multiple-school-closures-due-to-high-winds-in-west-maui-and-kula-brush-fire/) on the West side of the island...

[SassyLady]

https://nypost.com/2023/08/17/7-year-old-maui-boy-burns-to-death-with-family-fleeing-fire/



The harrowing loss was revealed by local kindergarten teacher Jessica Sill, who told the Wall Street Journal that she fears for students who may have been home alone during the deadliest US wildfire in more than a century because classes were canceled due to power outages.

[SassyLady]

This is behind a pay Wall. From WSJ

https://www.wsj.com/us-news/maui-lahaina-hawaii-wildfire-76ecdbb7



MAUI, Hawaii—As officials continue tallying the dead from last week’s devastating fire in Lahaina, many here fear that a large number of children left home while schools were closed are among the victims.

[Kathianne]

This is behind a pay Wall. From WSJ

https://www.wsj.com/us-news/maui-lahaina-hawaii-wildfire-76ecdbb7

Yeah, I've been reading the same. What I've seen was that the schools closed due to high winds and power outages. The impacted area is middle to lower class and parents needed to work, so the kids were left alone. The fires were super fast-moving and roads were often blocked by power company trucks attempting to restore power.

Sounds like major cluster f, no sirens; power company trucks were not moving; fire departments were not able to get permissions to redirect water sources from dried hydrants to pools and rivers. Just one fing mess.

[SassyLady]

Uh oh ... your observations, according to hmjick, are sounding like a conspiracy theory. There couldn't possibly be that much of a governmental FU.

[SassyLady]

I've been watching videos of residents posting what happened. MSM (or government) isn't allowing anything to air yet.

One resident went to meeting with Governor and developers who said they want to help rebuild but asked government to waive permitting process to fast track everything. The guy representing the residents was in tears because no one is interested in building it back the way it was. Many feel it's just a land grab and that maybe the fire was intentional.

[Kathianne]

I've been watching videos of residents posting what happened. MSM (or government) isn't allowing anything to air yet.

One resident went to meeting with Governor and developers who said they want to help rebuild but asked government to waive permitting process to fast track everything. The guy representing the residents was in tears because no one is interested in building it back the way it was. Many feel it's just a land grab and that maybe the fire was intentional.

Everything is a conspiracy today. If as widespread as the feelings seem to be running, then I hope a dictator comes faster than it seems to be happening. Get it all over, once and for all.

[SassyLady]

Everything is a conspiracy today. If as widespread as the feelings seem to be running, then I hope a dictator comes faster than it seems to be happening. Get it all over, once and for all.

Lucky us ... not as long to live under those conditions. Sorry about the kids though and how their world is going to be.

[Kathianne]

Uh oh ... your observations, according to hmjick, are sounding like a conspiracy theory. There couldn't possibly be that much of a governmental FU.

Nope, no conspiracy. Total cluster f of incompetence. True conspiracies take some thought.

[Mr. P]

Everything is a conspiracy today. If as widespread as the feelings seem to be running, then I hope a dictator comes faster than it seems to be happening. Get it all over, once and for all.

Easy girl.

It's just the apparent norm on the internet. IMO anyway.

[Kathianne]

Easy girl.

It's just the apparent norm on the internet. IMO anyway.

Me either. I consider SL a friend, but our political viewpoints on conspiracies differ greatly. I respect her pov, though do not agree for the most part.

[SassyLady]

Me either. I consider SL a friend, but our political viewpoints on conspiracies differ greatly. I respect her pov, though do not agree for the most part.
Yes, we agree to disagree.

[SassyLady]

Predatory transaction.

https://youtube.com/shorts/SJx-p0tuDJc?feature=share

[hjmick]

Uh oh ... your observations, according to hmjick, are sounding like a conspiracy theory. There couldn't possibly be that much of a governmental FU.


Look, you posted that the schools sent the kids home, that didn't happen. The schools hadn't even opened on the west side of the island, they had postponed the start of school until the 21st. Twelve full days after the original scheduled start. As for parents "not allowed to return home during the fire," unless they were prevented from entering the area by police or fire fighters, there is no one else who prevented their getting home. The fact of the matter is, this fire, like so many, was moving much to fast for the majority of parents to get home fast enough to make a difference. I know, I've witnessed these things more than once in person.

If you do not like people pointing out the inaccuracies in your posts, do better research.

[SassyLady]

Look, you posted that the schools sent the kids home, that didn't happen. The schools hadn't even opened on the west side of the island, they had postponed the start of school until the 21st. Twelve full days after the original scheduled start. As for parents "not allowed to return home during the fire," unless they were prevented from entering the area by police or fire fighters, there is no one else who prevented their getting home. The fact of the matter is, this fire, like so many, was moving much to fast for the majority of parents to get home fast enough to make a difference. I know, I've witnessed these things more than once in person.

If you do not like people pointing out the inaccuracies in your posts, do better research.

You asked for a link. I gave you one. From people on the island. You didn't see this one happen. Where's your link?

[hjmick]

You asked for a link. I gave you one. From people on the island. You didn't see this one happen. Where's your link?


You provide a link about a seven year old found dead with his family. So either they were already home or they managed to get there from work. That article also said that children were home and not in school. NOTHING in that article said ANYTHING about schools sending the children home because of the hurricane or parents being denied leave from work to go home. Things you claimed in your OP. As for your WSJ article, pay wall, not a source of anything. For the record: I never said there were not children at home alone. I've known there were from the beginning.

As for your YouTube link, it had nothing to do with what we're talking about...

There were two links in my first post. One verifying that the hurricane was too far south to do anything but send strong winds to the islands and the other verifying that the schools in Lahaina were not in session and in fact would not be until the 21st of August.

Now, what would you like a link to? How fast the fire moved?

Lahaina wildfire traveled a mile every minute (https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/14/us/maui-wildfires-what-we-know/index.html) You'll need to scroll down to find this portion of the story, but here are the highlights:

“When the winds rose up – winds gusting as high as 81 mph – fires spread rapidly,” Green said. “We believe between 60 mph and 81 mph across that part of the island, and that meant that fire traveled one mile every minute.”


By Tuesday afternoon, winds associated with powerful Hurricane Dora, passing hundreds of miles south of Hawaii, were fanning the flames of wildfires and multiple evacuations were announced for the Lahaina and Upcountry Maui fires.


The flames jumped across highways and suddenly showed up in people’s yards and homes.


The fire was moving “low to the ground and structure to structure – incredibly fast that outpaced anything the firefighters could have done in the early hours...”

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Look, you posted that the schools sent the kids home, that didn't happen. The schools hadn't even opened on the west side of the island, they had postponed the start of school until the 21st. Twelve full days after the original scheduled start. As for parents "not allowed to return home during the fire," unless they were prevented from entering the area by police or fire fighters, there is no one else who prevented their getting home. The fact of the matter is, this fire, like so many, was moving much to fast for the majority of parents to get home fast enough to make a difference. I know, I've witnessed these things more than once in person.

If you do not like people pointing out the inaccuracies in your posts, do better research.

What does it matter if they we sent home by schools or they were already home because school had not started yet?
The Main Point Made Was, the kids were there in danger and some may have died and just how horrible that would be...--Tyr
.

[SassyLady]

What does it matter if they we sent home by schools or they were already home because school had not started yet?
The Main Point Made Was, the kids were there in danger and some may have died and just how horrible that would be...--Tyr
.

What matters to him is that my source isn't his source so I have to be spreading conspiracies. Those children were not in school. They were home alone.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

What matters to him is that my source isn't his source so I have to be spreading conspiracies. Those children were not in school. They were home alone.

Some people never think about others. Kids home alone no mqtter how or why had to face such a deadly fire.
That is enough. I got your point without crying for links etc. -Tyr

[hjmick]

What matters to him is that my source isn't his source so I have to be spreading conspiracies. Those children were not in school. They were home alone.


Why am I not surprised that you do not grasp my point? I suppose I should spell it out for you. I will type slowly...


Information... during... a... time... of horrific... tragedy... and great... fluidity... should be... as... accurate... as possible. This... will help... prevent... the spread... of bogus... information... and irresponsible... rumor.


Facts and accuracy.

It's not hard.

[Gunny]

I've been to HI a time or two or three. Compliments of Uncle Sam :)

I'm not understanding why "In case of fire, jump in the Pacific Ocean" isn't a plan. Can't miss it. It's that big damn blue puddle of water as far as the eye can see surrounding you:rolleyes:

[Black Diamond]

Well an alternative theory is apparently climate change :rolleyes:

[SassyLady]

Why am I not surprised that you do not grasp my point? I suppose I should spell it out for you. I will type slowly...


Information... during... a... time... of horrific... tragedy... and great... fluidity... should be... as... accurate... as possible. This... will help... prevent... the spread... of bogus... information... and irresponsible... rumor.


Facts and accuracy.

It's not hard.
Educate yourself with as many sources as are available. You might hear something that is not being propagated by MSM. I'm watching videos of locals on the ground who couldn't get out and ended up fleeing to the water and waited hours before coast guard could get to them. I tend to believe their version than a sanitized version passed out by government entities.

Your ..... information .... is ... possibly ... being .... censored ... to ... further ... a ... narrative. First .... person ... lived .... experiences ... are ... factual.

I think I wrote that slow enough for you.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Educate yourself with as many sources as are available. You might hear something that is not being propagated by MSM. I'm watching videos of locals on the ground who couldn't get out and ended up fleeing to the water and waited hours before coast guard could get to them. I tend to believe their version than a sanitized version passed out by government entities.

Your ..... information .... is ... possibly ... being .... censored ... to ... further ... a ... narrative. First .... person ... lived .... experiences ... are ... factual.

I think I wrote that slow enough for you.

True, the authorities have their narrative that they want to push.
And almost always it involves a bit or else a damn lot of lying...
Myself, I do not like to be lied to.-Tyr

[Gunny]

Nope, no conspiracy. Total cluster f of incompetence. True conspiracies take some thought.Agreed. Starting from the start, just how many people believe the Hawaiian Islands are prepared for or even give thought to wildfire? It's just not on the list of things to worry about on an island. The lack of preparedness and deer in the headlights are rather obvious.

Sometimes, sh*t happens and nobody is prepared for everything. Haven't looked, but I wonder how the people of SoCal fared through a hurricane they aren't prepared to deal with? They are probably as prepared for wildfire though as anyone can be.

[revelarts]

It's a sad Horrific mess.

God help the folks. Its hard to imagine your child at home alone in a house fire and the whole neighborhood on fire.

Tragic incompetence or more. At the very least the "powers that be" & FatCat's mantra after these kind of events will play out.

"Let no tragedy go to waste"

[revelarts]

Why am I not surprised that you do not grasp my point? I suppose I should spell it out for you. I will type slowly...


Information... during... a... time... of horrific... tragedy... and great... fluidity... should be... as... accurate... as possible. This... will help... prevent... the spread... of bogus... information... and irresponsible... rumor.


Facts and accuracy.

It's not hard.

Bat soup... Wet market
100% effective... You can't spread the virus
Mask work!... 2 mask are better... We'll N95s...worn properly..
No, We didn't fund gain of function research.
Etc etc
Accurate official information to slow the spread of bogus... info... rumor... theories... it's not hard. �� :rolleyes:
Facts and Accuracy.


Anyone who doesn't distrust or question govt & MSM narratives at this point is ...um..less than wise.
That Doesn't mean that everything is a conspiracy, unless we include cover up and general govt lies and half truths and unfounded assurances under the umbrella of conspiracy nowadays.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Bat soup Wet market
100% effective you can't spread the virus
Mask work but 2 mask are better... We'll N95s...worn properly..
No, We didn't fund gain of function research
Etc etc
Accurate official information to slow the spread of bogus... info... rumor... theories... it's not hard. �� :rolleyes:
Facts and Accuracy.


Anyone who doesn't distrust or question govt & MSM narratives at this point is ...um..less than wise.
That Doesn't mean that everything is a conspiracy, unless we include cover up and general govt lies and half truths and unfounded assurances under the umbrella of conspiracy nowadays.

Careful now my friend, some people cannot stand to hear/see too much truth. As they like the blinded world government and others presents for them.

[Gunny]

It's a sad Horrific mess.

God help the folks. Its hard to imagine your child at home alone in a house fire and the whole neighborhood on fire.

Tragic incompetence or more. At the very least the "powers that be" & FatCat's mantra after these kind of events will play out.

"Let no tragedy go to waste"Question: if your child is old enough and mature enough to be left home alone, whose responsibility is it to ensure said child is educated in what to do in case of emergencies?

If the child is not old enough and/or mature enough to be left home alone and is, who is that on? The state that outlaws it?

That doesn't sound like a person always making noise about the government staying out of their business. It sounds more like someone expecting the nanny state to prevent all tragedies, whether capable or not.

I agree it is a tragedy. Tragedies are what they are by definition. There isn't always some sinister plot that they occur, nor especially anyone in particular's fault. Sometimes shit does just happen.

[icansayit]

Another of my new memes for the World to see.
https://icansayit.com/icsi/incomp joe.png