Russian troops withdraw from Norway border in drop since start of Ukraine war

[Gunny]

Russia's scraping for bodies. One would think Putin might be looking for any and all excuses to make a graceful exit but he's as nutty as Pooh.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/russian-troops-withdraw-norway-border-drop-since-start-ukraine-war-official

[AHZ]

Russia's scraping for bodies. One would think Putin might be looking for any and all excuses to make a graceful exit but he's as nutty as Pooh.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/russian-troops-withdraw-norway-border-drop-since-start-ukraine-war-official


maybe we should inundate them with purchase orders. that will defeat any foe.

[Black Diamond]

Ukraine has said it will fight to the last Ukrainian. I think that was a prophetic statement.

[AHZ]

Ukraine has said it will fight to the last Ukrainian. I think that was a prophetic statement.


or will they fight till the last american dollar?

[Gunny]

Ukraine has said it will fight to the last Ukrainian. I think that was a prophetic statement.What choice do they have other than surrender? It's not like they're sitting half a World away on another continent Monday morning quarterbacking.

[Black Diamond]

What choice do they have other than surrender? It's not like they're sitting half a World away on another continent Monday morning quarterbacking.

A deal could be cut but interestingly that process wouldn't involve Ukraine. Ukraine is a pawn.

[AHZ]

A deal could be cut but interestingly that process wouldn't involve Ukraine. Ukraine is a pawn.


are you a putin puppet?

[Gunny]

A deal could be cut but interestingly that process wouldn't involve Ukraine. Ukraine is a pawn.Consider if you were Ukrainian how you would feel about such a deal being cut. Like South Vietnam, maybe?

Then there's the ramifications of such a deal spilling over to Taiwan. Or anywhere else Putin of Xi feel like going.

I actually expected such a deal. I did not at first factor in the fact that Eastern Europe Ukraine right where it is - between them and Russia.

[AHZ]

Consider if you were Ukrainian how you would feel about such a deal being cut. Like South Vietnam, maybe?

Then there's the ramifications of such a deal spilling over to Taiwan. Or anywhere else Putin of Xi feel like going.

I actually expected such a deal. I did not at first factor in the fact that Eastern Europe Ukraine right where it is - between them and Russia.


ukrainians would probably prefer no war at all.

we fucked that up for them didn't we. now ending it would be a problem for them?


you're hilarious.

[Gunny]

ukrainians would probably prefer no war at all.

we fucked that up for them didn't we. now ending it would be a problem for them?


you're hilarious.yet another topic you know nothing about. Didn't get the message from the thread bans this morning? I'm done with your stupid shit, derailing threads. Think carefully before you respond if you have any plans on remaining part of this thread.

[AHZ]

yet another topic you know nothing about. Didn't get the message from the thread bans this morning? I'm done with your stupid shit, derailing threads. Think carefully before you respond if you have any plans on remaining part of this thread.


I just doubt any ukrainians would be opposed to the war ending.

[Gunny]

I just doubt any ukrainians would be opposed to the war ending.No normal human being would be opposed to war ending. Putin could end it right now by getting out of Ukraine. He's the only thing standing between war and the end of it.

[AHZ]

No normal human being would be opposed to war ending. Putin could end it right now by getting out of Ukraine. He's the only thing standing between war and the end of it.


americans could stop sending money.

[Black Diamond]

americans could stop sending money.

I don't think that'll happen. Trump will continue the support until he can cut a deal. He *might * involve zelensky in it. (Gasp)

[AHZ]

I don't think that'll happen. Trump will continue the support until he can cut a deal. He *might * involve zelensky in it. (Gasp)


probably not.

the war profiteers have gone mental.

[Gunny]

americans could stop sending money.That would not end the war.

[Black Diamond]

That would not end the war.

Yeah nato wouldn't stop supplying and funding

[AHZ]

That would not end the war.


it would help end the war.

[Gunny]

I don't think that'll happen. Trump will continue the support until he can cut a deal. He *might * involve zelensky in it. (Gasp)You're assuming a lot :laugh:

Ukraine has take a lot of crap off Russia BEFORE Russia invaded. Occupying Crimea and supporting pro-Russian insurgents in Eastern Ukraine. But since Russia pushed, and invaded, Ukraine wants all its territory back and rightly so, IMO.

Except for Crimea. I doubt Zelenskiy will budge on it, but Russia already pulled its usual. Most ethnic Crimeans have been gone since the Soviets relocated them. Russia did the same when it annexed Crimea by relocating Ukrainians and relocating ethnic Russians to Crimea. Not really seeing that as something Ukraine should get too hung up on. However, it dictates a lot strategically where the Black Sea is concerned.

Ukraine is not solely dependent on the US. I suspect Europe, especially Eastern Europe directly affected would continue support even without the US. No one wants Russia on their doorstep.

[AHZ]

Yeah nato wouldn't stop supplying and funding


gotta link?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

What choice do they have other than surrender? It's not like they're sitting half a World away on another continent Monday morning quarterbacking.
They are doing exactly what they are supposed to do.
Either win or die fighting. That is their homeland.
We must think what would we do if an enemy was invading us?----:salute:--Tyr

[Kathianne]

They are doing exactly what they are supposed to do.
Either win or die fighting. That is their homeland.
We must think what would we do if an enemy was invading us?----:salute:--Tyr
Oh we'd have been pretty fd up without the French in our first war. Probably would have been invaded in WWII without our allies, mutual benefit.

[AHZ]

They are doing exactly what they are supposed to do.
Either win or die fighting. That is their homeland.
We must think what would we do if an enemy was invading us?----:salute:--Tyr


globalists would call the resistance 'filthy populism' and then help the invader.

[Gunny]

Oh we'd have been pretty fd up without the French in our first war. Probably would have been invaded in WWII without our allies, mutual benefit.Fact is, we have won only small wars on our own. One could claim we beat the Japanese on our own, but even then, we had help from Australia, China, Burma, UK/India.

Had Hitler maintained the Von Ribbentrop Pact with Stalin, it's not a given the allies combined could have taken back Europe.


If we had to go it alone on a European battlefield we could come out on top technology-wise, but we could never match the manpower and the only way you secure something is with boots on the ground.

Putin is stripping his flanks knowing NATO countries won't be the aggressors and is even dealing with the little idiot in N Korea. As is, Russia isn't going to win. Putin is trying to tip the balance.

[Black Diamond]

Fact is, we have won only small wars on our own. One could claim we beat the Japanese on our own, but even then, we had help from Australia, China, Burma, UK/India.

Had Hitler maintained the Von Ribbentrop Pact with Stalin, it's not a given the allies combined could have taken back Europe.


If we had to go it alone on a European battlefield we could come out on top technology-wise, but we could never match the manpower and the only way you secure something is with boots on the ground.

Putin is stripping his flanks knowing NATO countries won't be the aggressors and is even dealing with the little idiot in N Korea. As is, Russia isn't going to win. Putin is trying to tip the balance.
Impossible imo to defeat nazis in that scenario. And question. If hitler had kept the Pact, what was Russia's plan? Eventually help them destroy Britain?

[NightTrain]

Hitler bought into his own invincible propaganda and foolishly opened the unnecessary Barbarossa front. He could have won one or the other, but not both simultaneously.

The people believing that Putin will be appeased by handing him large swaths of Ukraine would do well to revisit Chamberlain's foolish attempt to appease Hitler. Putin will not stop until he achieves his goal of rebuilding the USSR and he needs to lose here and now.

But as far as Ukraine goes, they have no choice. They have to fight for their homeland. The war will end when Putin withdraws from Ukraine's 2014 borders.

As far as we're concerned, 5% of our military budget to defeat Russia with no boots on the ground is a very good deal for us. Ukraine is winning, slowly but surely. It's no blitzkrieg but they are retaking their land and bleeding Russia dry.

You know things are desperate when Putin has to withdraw 80% of his troops from the NATO borders, begs Iran & North Korea (LOL!) for military assistance, is already down to 1950s T-55 replacement armor, loses multiple warships to a country with no navy, purges his military in paranoia after killing off the commanders of the only half-assed mercenary outfits that did any sort of winning on the battlefield, has supplied us with working examples of every modern toy except the SU-57 Felon & T-14 - and that's because they're vaporware: they don't actually exist except in mock-up examples, the Ruble and economy in tatters, and knowing for certain that the next round of conscription will trigger mass unrest and another mass exodus.

Oh, and let's not forget that the invincible Kinzhal 'hypersonic' missile designed to deliver nukes with impunity is easily intercepted by our Patriot system and is sporting a zero success rate since the Patriots arrived. Putin had the designers arrested for treason over that.

Russia will lose militarily, but it's a toss up as to if Putin can last that long. When Bakhmut is retaken, there's going to be a political reckoning - and I expect that's about a month out.

The F-16s will remove the Russian KA-52s from play, which is the main factor slowing down Ukraine because they target the mine clearing vehicles and personnel. The ATACMS will compliment the Storm Shadows in isolating Crimea & blowing up command centers, ammo dumps and supplies.

One the KA-52s are removed, the Abrams, Leopards, Challengers, Bradleys and the rest of donated Western armor can go to work. I'm looking forward to seeing another 73 Easting battle unfold as our armor faces off with the subpar Soviet crap.

Russia went from the 2nd best army in the world to the 2nd best army in Ukraine in the space of 18 months, fighting on their own border. They're a laughingstock and a shadow of the former Soviet Union.

It's money well spent, and we need to see this through.

This time, though, when Russia collapses and splinters into a dozen or more small countries, the west has to be ready to support them and their independence - and remove their nukes. The world will be a better place without Russia in it. A bunch of small and squabbling mini-Russias are a lot better than an internationally mischievous united Russia.

[fj1200]

...

This time, though, when Russia collapses and splinters into a dozen or more small countries, the west has to be ready to support them and their independence - and remove their nukes. The world will be a better place without Russia in it. A bunch of small and squabbling mini-Russias are a lot better than an internationally mischievous united Russia.

I don't know about that first part but the last part? That's where the US needs to lead and not hide behind some soft of legalistic barrier.

[AHZ]

Hitler bought into his own invincible propaganda and foolishly opened the unnecessary Barbarossa front. He could have won one or the other, but not both simultaneously.

The people believing that Putin will be appeased by handing him large swaths of Ukraine would do well to revisit Chamberlain's foolish attempt to appease Hitler. Putin will not stop until he achieves his goal of rebuilding the USSR and he needs to lose here and now.

But as far as Ukraine goes, they have no choice. They have to fight for their homeland. The war will end when Putin withdraws from Ukraine's 2014 borders.

As far as we're concerned, 5% of our military budget to defeat Russia with no boots on the ground is a very good deal for us. Ukraine is winning, slowly but surely. It's no blitzkrieg but they are retaking their land and bleeding Russia dry.

You know things are desperate when Putin has to withdraw 80% of his troops from the NATO borders, begs Iran & North Korea (LOL!) for military assistance, is already down to 1950s T-55 replacement armor, loses multiple warships to a country with no navy, purges his military in paranoia after killing off the commanders of the only half-assed mercenary outfits that did any sort of winning on the battlefield, has supplied us with working examples of every modern toy except the SU-57 Felon & T-14 - and that's because they're vaporware: they don't actually exist except in mock-up examples, the Ruble and economy in tatters, and knowing for certain that the next round of conscription will trigger mass unrest and another mass exodus.

Oh, and let's not forget that the invincible Kinzhal 'hypersonic' missile designed to deliver nukes with impunity is easily intercepted by our Patriot system and is sporting a zero success rate since the Patriots arrived. Putin had the designers arrested for treason over that.

Russia will lose militarily, but it's a toss up as to if Putin can last that long. When Bakhmut is retaken, there's going to be a political reckoning - and I expect that's about a month out.

The F-16s will remove the Russian KA-52s from play, which is the main factor slowing down Ukraine because they target the mine clearing vehicles and personnel. The ATACMS will compliment the Storm Shadows in isolating Crimea & blowing up command centers, ammo dumps and supplies.

One the KA-52s are removed, the Abrams, Leopards, Challengers, Bradleys and the rest of donated Western armor can go to work. I'm looking forward to seeing another 73 Easting battle unfold as our armor faces off with the subpar Soviet crap.

Russia went from the 2nd best army in the world to the 2nd best army in Ukraine in the space of 18 months, fighting on their own border. They're a laughingstock and a shadow of the former Soviet Union.

It's money well spent, and we need to see this through.

This time, though, when Russia collapses and splinters into a dozen or more small countries, the west has to be ready to support them and their independence - and remove their nukes. The world will be a better place without Russia in it. A bunch of small and squabbling mini-Russias are a lot better than an internationally mischievous united Russia.


is this what xi told you to say?

[NightTrain]

I don't know about that first part but the last part? That's where the US needs to lead and not hide behind some soft of legalistic barrier.

Agree. We certainly can't expect thoughtful and strong leadership with the current bunch of diversity hires. At least the UK, Poland, Finland Sweden and a few others still have their shit together.

The only thing that our dummy has gotten correct is Ukraine support... and I think that's Blinken's hand operating the puppet.

[NightTrain]

is this what xi told you to say?

Take 24.

You'll find I'm not as nice as Gunny or Kathi.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Hitler bought into his own invincible propaganda and foolishly opened the unnecessary Barbarossa front. He could have won one or the other, but not both simultaneously.

The people believing that Putin will be appeased by handing him large swaths of Ukraine would do well to revisit Chamberlain's foolish attempt to appease Hitler. Putin will not stop until he achieves his goal of rebuilding the USSR and he needs to lose here and now.

But as far as Ukraine goes, they have no choice. They have to fight for their homeland. The war will end when Putin withdraws from Ukraine's 2014 borders.

As far as we're concerned, 5% of our military budget to defeat Russia with no boots on the ground is a very good deal for us. Ukraine is winning, slowly but surely. It's no blitzkrieg but they are retaking their land and bleeding Russia dry.

You know things are desperate when Putin has to withdraw 80% of his troops from the NATO borders, begs Iran & North Korea (LOL!) for military assistance, is already down to 1950s T-55 replacement armor, loses multiple warships to a country with no navy, purges his military in paranoia after killing off the commanders of the only half-assed mercenary outfits that did any sort of winning on the battlefield, has supplied us with working examples of every modern toy except the SU-57 Felon & T-14 - and that's because they're vaporware: they don't actually exist except in mock-up examples, the Ruble and economy in tatters, and knowing for certain that the next round of conscription will trigger mass unrest and another mass exodus.

Oh, and let's not forget that the invincible Kinzhal 'hypersonic' missile designed to deliver nukes with impunity is easily intercepted by our Patriot system and is sporting a zero success rate since the Patriots arrived. Putin had the designers arrested for treason over that.

Russia will lose militarily, but it's a toss up as to if Putin can last that long. When Bakhmut is retaken, there's going to be a political reckoning - and I expect that's about a month out.

The F-16s will remove the Russian KA-52s from play, which is the main factor slowing down Ukraine because they target the mine clearing vehicles and personnel. The ATACMS will compliment the Storm Shadows in isolating Crimea & blowing up command centers, ammo dumps and supplies.

One the KA-52s are removed, the Abrams, Leopards, Challengers, Bradleys and the rest of donated Western armor can go to work. I'm looking forward to seeing another 73 Easting battle unfold as our armor faces off with the subpar Soviet crap.

Russia went from the 2nd best army in the world to the 2nd best army in Ukraine in the space of 18 months, fighting on their own border. They're a laughingstock and a shadow of the former Soviet Union.

It's money well spent, and we need to see this through.

This time, though, when Russia collapses and splinters into a dozen or more small countries, the west has to be ready to support them and their independence - and remove their nukes. The world will be a better place without Russia in it. A bunch of small and squabbling mini-Russias are a lot better than an internationally mischievous united Russia.

So true about Russia in WW2. If Germany had not fought Russia, We lose the big one, we lose WW2. Sad but true.--Tyr

[NightTrain]

So true about Russia in WW2. If Germany had not fought Russia, We lose the big one, we lose WW2. Sad but true.--Tyr

I still think we would have won, but at a much higher cost in blood & treasure.

I think that because we achieved air superiority and once the bombings of their war infrastructure started, the end was inevitable. But achieving that would have been much more difficult with a focused and local Luftwaffe busy defending and even counterattacking air bases in England.

I suppose with an extended timeline, a nuke would have come into play... and that takes the fight right out of aggressive dictators. Germany would have folded like Japan did.

I wonder if the French would have been on board with a Fat Man being dropped on Paris while it was still a German stronghold? Lose one city to get the rest back... that would be a pretty awful decision.

[Gunny]

I still think we would have won, but at a much higher cost in blood & treasure.

I think that because we achieved air superiority and once the bombings of their war infrastructure started, the end was inevitable. But achieving that would have been much more difficult with a focused and local Luftwaffe busy defending and even counterattacking air bases in England.

I suppose with an extended timeline, a nuke would have come into play... and that takes the fight right out of aggressive dictators. Germany would have folded like Japan did.

I wonder if the French would have been on board with a Fat Man being dropped on Paris while it was still a German stronghold? Lose one city to get the rest back... that would be a pretty awful decision.It may have taken a nuke if Hitler had all his forces massed around the French coast. Overlord would most likely not have gone as it did.

Speaking of nukes, that's an elephant in the room no one's mentioned. Putin still has them. He just left most of them 20% guarded:laugh: Wondering at what point he starts waiving that sword around again.

[NightTrain]

It may have taken a nuke if Hitler had all his forces massed around the French coast. Overlord would most likely not have gone as it did.

Yeah, for sure it would have been a lot bloodier and the outcome questionable.


Speaking of nukes, that's an elephant in the room no one's mentioned. Putin still has them. He just left most of them 20% guarded:laugh: Wondering at what point he starts waiving that sword around again.

When our bumbling fool showed up over there in Kiev recently, Putin gave the order to launch a "test firing" of a missile to scare Biden - but it malfunctioned. Kind of embarrassing and the wrong message to have delivered.


Those things require a lot of maintenance and it's staggeringly expensive. No one knows how many would actually launch and detonate, but the failure rate would be pretty high. Still, even one would be too many, of course.

He'd never do it. He's already an international fugitive wanted by the ICC. It would be pretty cool to have his midget ass stuffed in a sack and handed over to the Polish border guards by one of his Generals to get him out of the way for the new government... there's a lot more war crimes than he's officially got now. That would send a wholesome message to other dictators around the world.

Saddam's and Gaddafi's fate scared all of them, but another Nuremberg would put the fear of God into them. If Russia's dictator can be tried for war crimes, then any of them can.