do you forgive or do you hold grudges

[actsnoblemartin]

with people on this board and in real life

I personally, can forgive preety easy and i dont like to hold grudges.

I figure it like athletics, you compete one minute, and shake hands the next

[Said1]

Depends on what it is. Either way, I tend to forgive, but somethings I don't forget because it involves the person's character.

[April15]

I used to hold a grudge but since all those who pissed me off have died no more grudges.

[Kathianne]

I agree with Said. I forgive, but don't forget. To forget would just be stupid. I'll say that policy has served me well. Friends may do dumb things, say dumb things. Enemies, well they try to leave you out to dry. Gotta know the difference.

[Abbey Marie]

I used to hold a grudge but since all those who pissed me off have died no more grudges.

Outliving them is the best revenge. :coffee:

[hjmick]

I can't imagine anyone holding a grudge on a message board. Talk about a waste of time and energy. As for real life, eh, I don't like most people so my circle of friends is quite small, mainly my wife (who I can never get enough of) and my best friend of almost thirty years (I'd help him hide the bodies, no questions asked).

I do confess to having Irish Alzheimer's, I forget everything except the insult, the slight, or the grudge. There's is a guy I work with who I haven't spoken to for fifteen years because he didn't have the backbone to come to me with an issue and instead went to the owner. Subsequently, I was called on the carpet and damn near lost my job. Yeah, I can hold a grudge when I feel it's necessary.

[manu1959]

with people on this board and in real life

I personally, can forgive preety easy and i dont like to hold grudges.

I figure it like athletics, you compete one minute, and shake hands the next

i get even.....

[Cheyenne]

I have to agree with Said1 & Kathianne on this one. Not to forgive makes one stuck in the situation, it controls your life. But I don't disregard what's been done. I will continue to be your friend, but I will also hold you at an arms distance. So maybe I do hold a grudge.
I think the parameters are also different in a marriage. You forgive more, but there is also a point of no return in that relationship, as well.

[April15]

Outliving them is the best revenge. :coffee:Ya dam straight!

[Kathianne]

Ya dam straight!

Even when one doesn't, when they are wrong and you right, the truth will out.

[April15]

I have to agree with Said1 & Kathianne on this one. Not to forgive makes one stuck in the situation, it controls your life. But I don't disregard what's been done. I will continue to be your friend, but I will also hold you at an arms distance. So maybe I do hold a grudge.
I think the parameters are also different in a marriage. You forgive more, but there is also a point of no return in that relationship, as well.
Marriage is way more than just I do.
I would suggest reading the following to understand some points about marriage that never get taught.



Ten Characteristics Of
A
Conscious Marriage



1. You realize that your relationship has a hidden purpose-the healing of childhood wounds. Instead of focusing entirely on surface needs and desires, you learn to recognize the unresolved childhood issues that underlie them. When you look at marriage with this x-ray vision, your daily interactions take on more meaning. Puzzling aspects of your relationship begin to make sense to you, and you have a greater sense of control.

2. You create a more accurate image of your partner. At the very moment of attraction, you begin fusing your lover with your primary caretakers. Later you projected your negative traits onto your partner, further obscuring your partner’s essential reality. As you move toward a conscious marriage, you gradually let go of these illusions and begin to see more of your partners truth. You see your partner not as your savior but as another wounded human being struggling to be healed.

3. You take responsibility for communicating your needs and desires to your partner. In an unconscious marriage, you cling to the childhood belief that your partner automatically intuits your needs. In a conscious marriage, you accept the fact that, in order to understand each other, you have to develop clear channels of communication.

4. You become more intentional in your interactions. In an unconscious marriage, you tend to react without thinking. You allow the primitive response of your old brain to control your behavior. In a conscious marriage, you train yourself to behave in a more constructive manner.

5. You learn to value your partner’s needs and wishes as highly as your own. In an unconscious marriage, you assume that your partner’s role in life is to take care of your needs magically. In a conscious marriage, you let go of this narcissistic view and divert more and more of your energy to meeting your partner’s needs.


6. You embrace the dark side of your personality. In a conscious marriage, you openly acknowledge the fact that you, like everyone else, have negative traits. As you accept responsibility for this dark side of your nature , you lessen your tendency to project your negative traits onto your mate, which creates a less hostile environment.

7. You learn new techniques to satisfy your basic needs and desires. During the power struggle, you cajole, harangue, and blame in an attempt to coerce your partner to meet your needs. When you move beyond this stage, you realize that your partner can indeed be a resource for you- once you abandon your self-defeating tactics.

8. You search within yourself for the strengths and abilities you are lacking. One reason you were attracted to your partner is that your partner had strengths and abilities that you lacked. Therefore, being with your partner gave you an illusory sense of wholeness. In a conscious marriage, you learn that the only way you can truly recapture a sense of oneness is to develop the hidden traits within yourself.

9. You become more aware of your drive to be loving and whole and united with the universe. As a part of your God-given nature, you have the ability to love unconditionally and to experience unity with the world around you. Social conditioning and imperfect parenting made you lose touch with these qualities. In a conscious marriage, you begin to rediscover your original nature.

10. You accept the difficulty of creating a good marriage. In an unconscious marriage, you believe that the way to have a good marriage is to pick the right partner. As you gain a more realistic view of love relationships, you realize that a good marriage requires commitment, discipline, and the courage to grow and change; marriage is hard work. ( OVER )
Let’s take a closer look at number ten, the need to accept the difficulty involved in creating a good marriage, because none of the other nine ideas will come to fruition unless you first cultivate your willingness to grow and change.

[BoogyMan]

You have to let go of the anger and take the proper attitude with regard to forgiveness and holding grudges. Even if you set aside the religious instruction not to embitter yourself against someone, you have to understand that holding onto such internal angst will make you miserable and shorten your life.

[Said1]

I have to agree with Said1 & Kathianne on this one. Not to forgive makes one stuck in the situation, it controls your life. But I don't disregard what's been done. I will continue to be your friend, but I will also hold you at an arms distance. So maybe I do hold a grudge.
I think the parameters are also different in a marriage. You forgive more, but there is also a point of no return in that relationship, as well.

I wouldn't say it's holding a grudge. It's just that certain actions reveal who the person really is. I don't feel it's my job to change them, especially when they don't really feel remorse for what they have done - even though they have apologized. Some people like to help others be a better person, personally, I have my own conscience to worry about! :laugh2:

I like your comments about marriage as well.

[82Marine89]

with people on this board and in real life

I personally, can forgive preety easy and i dont like to hold grudges.

I figure it like athletics, you compete one minute, and shake hands the next

Once I kill them I feel much better. I just hope they don't start building homes in the desert.

[Dilloduck]

You might wanna thank that person--they just taught you something.

[diuretic]

I don't bear a grudge, I just hate everyone equally all the time :laugh2:

[Cheyenne]

Marriage is way more than just I do.
I would suggest reading the following to understand some points about marriage that never get taught.
Ten Characteristics Of A Conscious Marriage
5. You learn to value your partner’s needs and wishes as highly as your own. In an unconscious marriage, you assume that your partner’s role in life is to take care of your needs magically. In a conscious marriage, you let go of this narcissistic view and divert more and more of your energy to meeting your partner’s needs.

These are very good. But how many couples actually understand them when getting married? They might even read these but most times their attitude is, "Yeah, yeah, I know".

I am curious why you chose to highlight this particular one out of the ten.

Here's something.

Personal Report Card
How would you rate yourself in each of these categories in terms of meeting your partner's needs? Choose from 1/Needs Improvement to 6/Very Good.

1. Making time for our relationship.

2. Meeting my partner's sexual needs.

3. Making our relationship romantic.

4. Creating a loving family.

5. Having a fair attitude about work.

6. Being supportive with career issues.

7. Giving & receiving physical affection.

8. Initiating mentally satisfying intimate conversations.

9. Being reasonable about money.

10. Being a best friend to my partner.

11. Being a good social partner.

12. Interjecting fun into the relationship.

13. Providing mental stimulation for our relationship.

14. Doing my part to make a comfortable home.

15. Being a vacation buddy.

16. Interacting with my partner in a kind, respectful manner.

17. Being clear & trustworthy about my commitment.

18. Spending time with friends in a way that is supportive of the relationship.

19. Being a good partner around issues pertaining to children.

20. Holding spiritual beliefs & practices that are conducive to strengthening the relationship.

Total possible points: 120

[Hagbard Celine]

I used to hold a grudge but since all those who pissed me off have died no more grudges.

You cast spells on them didn't you? :poke:

[Hagbard Celine]

I don't hold grudges. Grudges are for weak-minded people who let their emotions control them. I do not, however trust those who do me wrong. If you mess with me, I won't hold a grudge--I'll still deal with you, but I'll never fully trust you again. There will always be that little crumb of distrust in my mind so I'll deal with you cautiously, like one would a cobra or a cougar. Or a coke lord or a cracked-out caucasian.:coffee:

[glockmail]

with people on this board and in real life

I personally, can forgive preety easy and i dont like to hold grudges.

I figure it like athletics, you compete one minute, and shake hands the next

Depends on what the offense is. Insult my kids with a sexual innuendo and we'll be fighting in hell together forever.:dev:

[truthmatters]

Marriage is way more than just I do.
I would suggest reading the following to understand some points about marriage that never get taught.



Ten Characteristics Of
A
Conscious Marriage



1. You realize that your relationship has a hidden purpose-the healing of childhood wounds. Instead of focusing entirely on surface needs and desires, you learn to recognize the unresolved childhood issues that underlie them. When you look at marriage with this x-ray vision, your daily interactions take on more meaning. Puzzling aspects of your relationship begin to make sense to you, and you have a greater sense of control.

2. You create a more accurate image of your partner. At the very moment of attraction, you begin fusing your lover with your primary caretakers. Later you projected your negative traits onto your partner, further obscuring your partner’s essential reality. As you move toward a conscious marriage, you gradually let go of these illusions and begin to see more of your partners truth. You see your partner not as your savior but as another wounded human being struggling to be healed.

3. You take responsibility for communicating your needs and desires to your partner. In an unconscious marriage, you cling to the childhood belief that your partner automatically intuits your needs. In a conscious marriage, you accept the fact that, in order to understand each other, you have to develop clear channels of communication.

4. You become more intentional in your interactions. In an unconscious marriage, you tend to react without thinking. You allow the primitive response of your old brain to control your behavior. In a conscious marriage, you train yourself to behave in a more constructive manner.

5. You learn to value your partner’s needs and wishes as highly as your own. In an unconscious marriage, you assume that your partner’s role in life is to take care of your needs magically. In a conscious marriage, you let go of this narcissistic view and divert more and more of your energy to meeting your partner’s needs.


6. You embrace the dark side of your personality. In a conscious marriage, you openly acknowledge the fact that you, like everyone else, have negative traits. As you accept responsibility for this dark side of your nature , you lessen your tendency to project your negative traits onto your mate, which creates a less hostile environment.

7. You learn new techniques to satisfy your basic needs and desires. During the power struggle, you cajole, harangue, and blame in an attempt to coerce your partner to meet your needs. When you move beyond this stage, you realize that your partner can indeed be a resource for you- once you abandon your self-defeating tactics.

8. You search within yourself for the strengths and abilities you are lacking. One reason you were attracted to your partner is that your partner had strengths and abilities that you lacked. Therefore, being with your partner gave you an illusory sense of wholeness. In a conscious marriage, you learn that the only way you can truly recapture a sense of oneness is to develop the hidden traits within yourself.

9. You become more aware of your drive to be loving and whole and united with the universe. As a part of your God-given nature, you have the ability to love unconditionally and to experience unity with the world around you. Social conditioning and imperfect parenting made you lose touch with these qualities. In a conscious marriage, you begin to rediscover your original nature.

10. You accept the difficulty of creating a good marriage. In an unconscious marriage, you believe that the way to have a good marriage is to pick the right partner. As you gain a more realistic view of love relationships, you realize that a good marriage requires commitment, discipline, and the courage to grow and change; marriage is hard work. ( OVER )
Let’s take a closer look at number ten, the need to accept the difficulty involved in creating a good marriage, because none of the other nine ideas will come to fruition unless you first cultivate your willingness to grow and change.



Im going to save this to give to any couple I know who get married.

This is the best discrpition I have ever seen for what it takes to make a marriage work.

[darin]

Some folk think because they aren't liked, they are automatically 'hated', or somebody holds a grudge. :)

[truthmatters]

I try not to hold grudges. They sometimes last until the person sees the error of their ways if I think the person is capable of seeing the truth. If the person is uncapable of seeing the truth I have a kind of mourning period of grudge for the person. I hold it until I fully internalize they are incapable of accepting the truth.

I realise people are flawed and make mistakes so I dont hold grudges for mistakes but I do hold grudges when people embrace lies. It has always worked out in life for me that those who embraced lies were either mislead (and get to the truth eventually) or they dont care about truth and will accept lies just to avoid being wrong or to gain financially. I forgive those who come to the truth and note those who embrace lies for gain. Noting the people who embrace lies long term is not holding a grudge its just realising that some people dont deserve any respect or trust.

[April15]

These are very good. But how many couples actually understand them when getting married? They might even read these but most times their attitude is, "Yeah, yeah, I know".

I am curious why you chose to highlight this particular one out of the ten.

Here's something.

Personal Report Card
How would you rate yourself in each of these categories in terms of meeting your partner's needs? Choose from 1/Needs Improvement to 6/Very Good.

1. Making time for our relationship.

2. Meeting my partner's sexual needs.

3. Making our relationship romantic.

4. Creating a loving family.

5. Having a fair attitude about work.

6. Being supportive with career issues.

7. Giving & receiving physical affection.

8. Initiating mentally satisfying intimate conversations.

9. Being reasonable about money.

10. Being a best friend to my partner.

11. Being a good social partner.

12. Interjecting fun into the relationship.

13. Providing mental stimulation for our relationship.

14. Doing my part to make a comfortable home.

15. Being a vacation buddy.

16. Interacting with my partner in a kind, respectful manner.

17. Being clear & trustworthy about my commitment.

18. Spending time with friends in a way that is supportive of the relationship.

19. Being a good partner around issues pertaining to children.

20. Holding spiritual beliefs & practices that are conducive to strengthening the relationship.

Total possible points: 120

The item I highlighted is the number one issue in marriage. And unfortunately so few have a clue what a marriage is. It is a partnership in close quarters. No lies, no excuses, no selfserving habits. It is to lay bare your inner self and to be vulnerable. Not easy in any way.
Just for the heck I am posting a list of rules for spousal debate or;

Fair Fighting Rules

1. No threats during the argument.

2. No blanket or labeling judgments, such as “you are stupid,” “thoughtless,”
“domineering,” “a lousy lover,” and so on.

3. Stay on the topic. Save other topics for other arguments. Focus on specific behavior.

4. Do not interrupt. Stay on the same eye level. Check to make sure you have heard the other correctly before responding.

5. Do not use never or always.

6. Stay in the present tense. Past tense reference is usually used to prove one point; to win.

7. Don’t argue in the dark. Try not to argue over the telephone.

8. Don’t walk away or leave the house while you are arguing without the other’s permission.

9. Take responsibility for feeling the way you do. Say what you feel about specific behaviors.

10. No finger pointing- it makes the recipient feel lectured.

11. If you suspect an argument is developing, try to write down the topic or problem. This can help you to stay on the topic and can help manage the process.

12. Take responsibility for change.

13. Try not to over dramatize. Most problems, most decisions are not life and death issues.

14. Know what you are fighting about. What is the real issue?

15. Approach fights with a problem solving attitude.

16. Try not to say things that are so critical or attacking that the other has no recourse but to run away and hide.

17. Don’t store up feelings and then dump them all at once.

18. Be honest. Check out your assumptions.

[darin]

The item I highlighted is the number one issue in marriage. And unfortunately so few have a clue what a marriage is. It is a partnership in close quarters. No lies, no excuses, no selfserving habits. It is to lay bare your inner self and to be vulnerable. Not easy in any way.
Just for the heck I am posting a list of rules for spousal debate or;

Which did you highlight?

[April15]

#5 in post 11

Please try to keep up!

[eighballsidepocket]

with people on this board and in real life

I personally, can forgive preety easy and i dont like to hold grudges.

I figure it like athletics, you compete one minute, and shake hands the next

Seems like it depends on how traumatic the offense was against me.

My deep desire is to forgive, but sometimes certain situations, or offenses/hurts against me, take longer for me to come around and exercise forgiveness.

About forgetting: A famous psychologist said, that you never forget anything in your life; not one thing. You may be able to "compartmentalize" some hurts or bad traumatic things, but it's still there in your brain.

The "forgiveness" part of your will, does a positive, medically proven thing to that hurt or offense against you. It diffuses it's ability to hurt or affect you anymore.

Traumas from childhood, teen years and later that aren't resolved through some kind of objective inspection and understanding so that they are put in proper perspective with our more adult, reasoning minds, can "crop up" in our lives in so many nasty ways.

Often depression, and mid-life crises times are spawned from old unresolved "hurts".

Anyway, it is possible to forgive, yet still "feel" or emotionally, not believe that you have done the transaction in your mind/soul. Yet, emotions are not necessarily the accurate gauge of what is truth and a lie in our lives. Emotions are wonderful enhancements to our human-ness, but they can contradict the "truth" and keep us in a very confused state of mind if we rely on them too much to make decisions of importance.

Some folk's emotions or feelings or "feelers" aren't on their coat sleeves, so-to-speak, and can easily divide truth from falsity and go on living without much trouble. Others of us, have on and off wars between objective truth , and wavering or contradicting thoughts spawned by our emotions or "feelers". It can be a life long battle, but is not a bain necessarily, but can be a helpful education in understanding ourselves, and learning to be objective while being challenged/confronted by the storms of life, within and without.

Anyway, if you know that you need to "forgive" yet your emotions or feelings tell you that you can't because your still "feeling" hurt; you must try, try, try, to go against those feelings and tell yourself that you are forgiving the trespasser against you. You will be surprised, how that act of your human "will", will gradually precipitate a change in your up and down emotions concerning the offense. Your emotions will gradually fall in line with your "will", and what is the objective and healthy route for you to follow. In fact the hurtful memory of the offense will gradually fade in importance as time goes by, if you or I can force our way through the feelings and exercise our wills to forgive, when we know that is the right and healthy thing for us to do.

Holding onto unforgiveness, spawns, hypertension, heart problems, depression, moodiness, tension headaches, Endocrinal unbalances, so many more "real" unhealthy manifestations that in turn if not abated can cause permanent physical damage to the human body.

I've recently this year gone through a very hurtful experience with my closest relatives that I've always admired and loved. It has taken me some months to gradually come to a point where I can even consider "forgiveness" toward what they did to me. It is a process, but forgiveness is the culmination of that process. I've even sought out, an unbiased counselor to help me through this process. Indeed, we all need a good and honest "mentor" in our lives to help us at times. We are not islands, and weren't intended to be.

Sometimes forgiveness must take it's time in our lives, as we must first process the "hurt" and even express justifiable anger towards the perpetrators, in a safe and sane way of course. (Not by hurling insults or troubling the perp's life, but in expressing to some neutral persons, our frustration and anger at being hurt in some unfair way.). In other words, we must process the offense, or the unfair or unkind offense against us, and see it in it's proper perspective. That is processing it. It will indeed start as an emotional trauma, but it must gradually be objectively understood by us, and then the process of forgiving can happen at the right time.

Peter asked Jesus if we should continue to forgive those that do things against us, even up to seven times. Jesus told Peter, that he and all people need to forgive seventy times seven, or perpetually. That's a hard thing to swallow, cause some of us have had some pretty bad stuff thrown our way, that we didn't deserve, yet if we don't gain objective perspective about those offenses, and continue to let our emotions rule the "roost" we will live out a most miserable life.

[truthmatters]

Good post EBSP, its sometimes hard to really know if you have allowed yourself to feel the hurt and not just intellectualized it. You really do have to allow yourself some time of feeling the hurt first before you can truely forgive.