Simple Solar Hot Water

[Classact]

I built a simple solar hot water heater for my home from mostly junk... I sold the idea to Back Home Magazine, a magazine that is based on homestead living in North Carolina... The system is really simple and not too costly in comparrison to a commercial solar hot water system... Also you don't need many plumbing skills or any permits... if anyone is interested simply reply and I'll explain the system.

I'm also in the process of finishing off my waste motor oil fired boiler that will run a homemade three HP steam engine to run a permanent magnet generator for charging solar battery bank when the sun or wind doesn't quite do the job.

Waste motor oil burns quite clean and is environmentally friendly... I get mine free and the same system can use waste cooking oil and could be adapted for home heating... If you are interested I will be happy to provide details and links to sources for research. It took me a few trials and errors but I can turn an old hot water heater tank glowing orange with my oil burner and the smoke coming out is less than from burning wood. Let me know.

[Sitarro]

I built a simple solar hot water heater for my home from mostly junk... I sold the idea to Back Home Magazine, a magazine that is based on homestead living in North Carolina... The system is really simple and not too costly in comparrison to a commercial solar hot water system... Also you don't need many plumbing skills or any permits... if anyone is interested simply reply and I'll explain the system.

I'm also in the process of finishing off my waste motor oil fired boiler that will run a homemade three HP steam engine to run a permanent magnet generator for charging solar battery bank when the sun or wind doesn't quite do the job.

Waste motor oil burns quite clean and is environmentally friendly... I get mine free and the same system can use waste cooking oil and could be adapted for home heating... If you are interested I will be happy to provide details and links to sources for research. It took me a few trials and errors but I can turn an old hot water heater tank glowing orange with my oil burner and the smoke coming out is less than from burning wood. Let me know.

I would enjoy reading about your designs.

[glockmail]

I used to burn waste motor oil in an old fuel oil furnace that heated my machinery barn in Upstate NY. I blended it with kerosene to get the thing started, and had a copper coil that ran around the furnace to heat the waste oil, lowering its viscosity, and a manual valve to switch to straight waste after a few minutes. I put an little add on the bulletin board at work that I would take used oil, and after a week got enough to heat for a year.

You're probaly wrong about not needing a permit to install the solar hot water heater though. In NC we are under the IBC which requires it for modifications to your system. When you sell your house you will be required to sign a disclosure form and state that work done was with a permit.

[Classact]

I would enjoy reading about your designs.
First let me point out I live in the tropics and it never freezes here… The system will work just fine in Alaska if it were purged of water prior to freezing temperatures.

I was lucky to find a couple used water panels after a hurricane blew them off someone’s house… amazingly they needed very little repair… but I added an additional homemade collector that, while not as efficient heats water quite well. Below I will discuss how you can make a homemade panel and connect it to your hot water heater.

What is a solar hot water collector and how does it work? A solar hot water collector is a method of allowing heat to travel to cold… the most efficient material to collect heat is mass such as metal and as the water passes through the metal pipe exposed to the sun the heat is transferred… Efficiency can be traded for economy when building a home collector… After all everyone has left a garden hose in the grass and solar heated hot water… Metal is the best conductor and copper is the preferred metal… excellent commercial collectors use a copper back plate with copper tubing surface contact to the plate thereby the heat stored in the mass of the tube and the plate is transferred to the water because hot always travels to cold. Because hot always travels to cold these collectors are placed in sealed boxes often insulated on the bottom of the plate… I built a large panel of this type in NC to heat a house with floor heat and it would boil water/antifreeze mixture in 10F weather if not circulated.

Recommended homemade panel: Check out a recycle yard for aluminum storm doors and door frames… or go to a plate glass dealership and offer to buy used plate glass from store fronts and then fabricate a frame made of channel from aluminum door or window framing material. To hold cost down use galvanized steel for the base plate. You will not require insulation for summer use only. The water collectors are groupings of 3/8 inch copper tubing that comes in 50 feet coils… standard “compression type fittings allow the “non plumber” to connect them together with a Crescent wrench. I would recommend you by a tube bender (about $15.00) so you can fabricate the coil in the shape of a mainspring to allow maximum use of the surface contact to the back plate. Leave a length from the center and the end of the coil to exit the collector box… drill two holes larger than the tube and use foam around the opening to seal. Note: The copper tubing needs to be in contact with the back plate but needs room to expand and contract… to do this place two or three strips of aluminum with weather strip between the aluminum and tubing… secure the aluminum strips to the back plate with self tapping roofing screws.

Connecting it to the home hot water system: Basically the plumbing consists of a loop from the drain faucet of your hot water heater to a circulating pump connected to the line feeding the collector panels and back to a “T” placed in the Hot Out pipe marked on top of the tank. Here are some considerations with this arrangement… Some areas have hard water and cause scale to form in the bottom of an active hot water heater therefore you may want to drain and flush any scale out first. You can connect to the existing faucet using a mesh screen and hose that will withstand water pressure (a washing machine hose and screen)… If you have a small tank then the gained hot water from solar will not save you much on your heating bill… I have an 88 gallon tank, about five feet high… In the event you have a very small water heater I would recommend that you buy a large water heater tank and simply connect it to the small tank “in cold” or in other words plumb the new tank from service water “in cold” to stored solar heated tank with the out hot feeding the cold input to your existing tank… I was able to find a used water heater for $40.00… If you check with a commercial plumber you may find a deal on a used tank for this purpose. Where I live I never needed to connect it to electricity anyway and it has served me well for ten years now. If you use a second tank then or a large tank the system will pay for itself in a couple years…

Other considerations: The plumbing between the circulating pump and the panel can be inexpensive PVC that is easily plumbed by a non plumber… it is low conductivity so you could actually place the ugly homemade panels on an out building out of sight… the circulation pump doesn’t need to run constantly… by a lamp timer so you can set it to come on for five minutes and off for a half hour during peak sun shine hours… I would also recommend that you buy a switch to turn off your hot water heater at night after showers and then back on just before prime use time in the evening so you could maximize the use of solar heated water. I have a solar electric battery bank and I use a 12 volt car windshield wiper delay switch to turn my pump on for 3 seconds and off for 25 seconds and have it connected to a lamp timer for prime sunshine… yet the circulation pump does very little work because it is merely circulating and not lifting or pressurizing water… you can find very inexpensive pumps in Harbor Freight.

Take the collectors down and blow out all the water during freezing periods or if you have an air pump set your system so you can purge the water with the pressurized air and the sun will dry what you miss.

Hope this makes sense… if not let me know and I’ll clear up any questions you may have.

[glockmail]

My grandpap used to have 150' of black rubber hose that he'd toss over the roof, connected to a flower watering head that hung off the side. When we came back from the beach he'd simply turn the water on and all us kids would take showers outside with our suits still on. The first one in would fry and the last would freeze. Then we's all have steamed clams and corn on the cob, along with whatever was ripe in the garden.

Man those were great days.

:dance:

[Classact]

I used to burn waste motor oil in an old fuel oil furnace that heated my machinery barn in Upstate NY. I blended it with kerosene to get the thing started, and had a copper coil that ran around the furnace to heat the waste oil, lowering its viscosity, and a manual valve to switch to straight waste after a few minutes. I put an little add on the bulletin board at work that I would take used oil, and after a week got enough to heat for a year..I got my idea form this web site http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me8.html If you go to their home page there is a wealth of information for homebrews... they are also affiliated with a discussion board that sends out a daily listing of threads on questions on Alternative Energy... I subscribe to the newsletter and read it daily... the group is a yahoo group with the name wastewatts if you or others are interested...




You're probaly wrong about not needing a permit to install the solar hot water heater though. In NC we are under the IBC which requires it for modifications to your system. When you sell your house you will be required to sign a disclosure form and state that work done was with a permitYou're probally right that it is a good idea to check for permits in our free nation for everything you do... don't want anyone to get in trouble with the government or their insurance company.


My grandpap used to have 150' of black rubber hose that he'd toss over the roof, connected to a flower watering head that hung off the side. When we came back from the beach he'd simply turn the water on and all us kids would take showers outside with our suits still on. The first one in would fry and the last would freeze. Then we's all have steamed clams and corn on the cob, along with whatever was ripe in the garden.

Man those were great days.

:dance:I bought an 11 acre plot in Hoke county NC just outside of Ft. Bragg when I was stationed there and had about a mile of cheap black plastic one inch hose laying on top of the ground to use for irrigation... I had to use it in the morning before sun up or the boiling water would kill everything.

I had a fishing buddy that had a trailor at the beach and he set up a 55 gallon drum on stilts and painted it black... he put a commode cutoff valve to fill it and a shower head on the bottom sitting over a little concrete platform... the water was toasty but not too hot for an end to a funky day of deep sea fishing before going into the trailor to cook up the catch of the day.

[Mr. P]

I bought an 11 acre plot in Hoke county NC just outside of Ft. Bragg

AIRBORNE!! :salute:

[Hagbard Celine]

Is it one of those setups that runs the water through a hose or pipe on the roof? Or did you connect solar panels to your hot water heater?

[glockmail]

...I had a fishing buddy that had a trailor at the beach and he set up a 55 gallon drum on stilts and painted it black... he put a commode cutoff valve to fill it and a shower head on the bottom sitting over a little concrete platform... the water was toasty but not too hot for an end to a funky day of deep sea fishing before going into the trailor to cook up the catch of the day.

Gotta love the redneck shower! :laugh2:

[glockmail]

Is it one of those setups that runs the water through a hose or pipe on the roof? Or did you connect solar panels to your hot water heater?
The way I've seen it done is to put the panel anywere you've got room and sun, and use the cold water supply to your standard water heater to run water through it and then into your hot water tank. That way you have no pumps and the solar merely acts as a pre-heater.

If by some chance the solar temperature is above your hot water tank set point then you've installed too much panel.

Also what Classact is saying is to provide a simple method to disconnect and drain the system for the winter season and avoid freeze-ups.

Its a red-neck solution, probably costing 25% of a store-bought solar system and probably about 90% as effective. :clap:

[Hagbard Celine]

The way I've seen it done is to put the panel anywere you've got room and sun, and use the cold water supply to your standard water heater to run water through it and then into your hot water tank. That way you have no pumps and the solar merely acts as a pre-heater.

If by some chance the solar temperature is above your hot water tank set point then you've installed too much panel.

Also what Classact is saying is to provide a simple method to disconnect and drain the system for the winter season and avoid freeze-ups.

Its a red-neck solution, probably costing 25% of a store-bought solar system and probably about 90% as effective. :clap:

Well, assuming solar panels were inexpensive, which they aren't, the smart thing to do would be to take your electric hot water heater off the grid and power it exclusively with solar panels, which would save you a ton on your electric bill. Unfortunately, solar panels are still so expensive it wouldn't be worth it unless you were permanently nested in your current house--you'd never get your money back.
Pumping the water through a pipe or grid on the roof, similar to leaving a hose in the sun, is how my parent's pool is "heated" or warmed during the summer. But that system doesn't really present an efficient option for a whole house imo.
The best thing you can probably do to save energy on your water heater is to go to do what I did. Go to Lowe's and buy an $18 insulation cloak for your heater.
I just redid all the water piping in my house with cpvc. I got rid of all the old corrugated steel stuff so I'm hoping to see a marked decrease in my power bill over the next few months--especially since winter is right around the corner. Here's a picture I took of a cross section of one of the old steel pipes originally installed in 1957: http://photos-d.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v142/42/86/4919973/n4919973_39084835_4467.jpgAs you can see, it was quite an upgrade. I also installed a filter:http://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v142/42/86/4919973/n4919973_39084829_2839.jpgSweet! I can drink the water now, which is awesome.

[glockmail]

http://photos-d.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v142/42/86/4919973/n4919973_39084835_4467.jpg... .

Brings back fond memories of my first house with galvanized pipe. Of course, they only put the galvanized on the outside of the pipes. It used to take 30 minutes to fill the bathtub and you could hear the entire length of pipe hissing as the water seeped through all the rust.

I also see that you have an iron sewer line. With lead joints, most likely. As long as you keep that pipe properly supported so it doesn't develop sags or any joints get loose it will probably outlast you. It has the additional benefit of being very quiet. In my 15 year old new house we have shedule 40 pvc drainage plumbing and there is a drop in the wall of my den from the bathrooms upstairs. So when I watch TV and someone takes a shower all I can hear is water draining through the pipe.

[Hagbard Celine]

Brings back fond memories of my first house with galvanized pipe. Of course, they only put the galvanized on the outside of the pipes. It used to take 30 minutes to fill the bathtub and you could hear the entire length of pipe hissing as the water seeped through all the rust.

I also see that you have an iron sewer line. With lead joints, most likely. As long as you keep that pipe properly supported so it doesn't develop sags or any joints get loose it will probably outlast you. It has the additional benefit of being very quiet. In my 15 year old new house we have shedule 40 pvc drainage plumbing and there is a drop in the wall of my den from the bathrooms upstairs. So when I watch TV and someone takes a shower all I can hear is water draining through the pipe.

Actually, I'm on a well: http://photos-d.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v50/42/86/4919973/n4919973_33657079_3339.jpg
As you can see, I rebuilt most of the piping on it too. The pipe going to my house is plastic/rubberized water piping so no lead thankfully. I think the rust and dirt you saw just comes from the ground water. Since I installed that filter, I had crystal clear drinking water for the first time ever in my house. Oh yeah, I'm livin' large these days :laugh2: Rebuilding the well system was one of the first things I did over a year ago. I've since gotten that switch up off the ground and built a nice little well shed to cover the thing up. That still needs painting come to think of it.

[glockmail]

Actually, I'm on a well: http://photos-d.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v50/42/86/4919973/n4919973_33657079_3339.jpg
As you can see, I rebuilt most of the piping on it too. The pipe going to my house is plastic/rubberized water piping so no lead thankfully. I think the rust and dirt you saw just comes from the ground water. Since I installed that filter, I had crystal clear drinking water for the first time ever in my house. Oh yeah, I'm livin' large these days :laugh2: Rebuilding the well system was one of the first things I did over a year ago. I've since gotten that switch up off the ground and built a nice little well shed to cover the thing up. That still needs painting come to think of it.


I was on a well with the house that I described as well. The deposits in the pipe came from the galvanized pipe, not the groundwater. I now this because all the risers in the house were copper, and only the horizonal runs in the basement ceiling were steel. My house was vintage 60's, not as old as yours, and apparently used partial steel to save money.

So that's probably why you instaled the filter. Well I'll bet you a dollar that it will stay relatively clean. As long as the well is sealed into the bedrock you are unlikey to get any sediment out of it.

[Hagbard Celine]

I was on a well with the house that I described as well. The deposits in the pipe came from the galvanized pipe, not the groundwater. I now this because all the risers in the house were copper, and only the horizonal runs in the basement ceiling were steel. My house was vintage 60's, not as old as yours, and apparently used partial steel to save money.

So that's probably why you instaled the filter. Well I'll bet you a dollar that it will stay relatively clean. As long as the well is sealed into the bedrock you are unlikey to get any sediment out of it.

I don't know about the well being sealed into the bedrock. I hope you're right. You think all that sediment was just from the pipes? I didn't know they rusted like that from the inside out. I figured all that dirt was just pumped in from the ground water.

[glockmail]

I don't know about the well being sealed into the bedrock. I hope you're right. You think all that sediment was just from the pipes? I didn't know they rusted like that from the inside out. I figured all that dirt was just pumped in from the ground water.

It looks like your well is in a crawl space so as long as you prevent water from getting in there you should have no problems. Of course, don't go burying and dead hookers down there either.

You said that some of the pipes were plastic. Since they didn't fill up with sediment or rust that proves that the steel pipes simply rusted. Its a well-known phenom in the plumbing field. That's one reason why they don't use galvanized pipe anymore.

[Hagbard Celine]

It looks like your well is in a crawl space so as long as you prevent water from getting in there you should have no problems. Of course, don't go burying and dead hookers down there either.

You said that some of the pipes were plastic. Since they didn't fill up with sediment or rust that proves that the steel pipes simply rusted. Its a well-known phenom in the plumbing field. That's one reason why they don't use galvanized pipe anymore.

Nah, I don't put any of my dead bodies inside my well shed. I usually chop them up and drive them down to a big lake out of town. :laugh: Actually none of the old pipes were cpvc. But with my new all cpvc pipes and that filter, I'll have clear drinking water for a long time to come. All I have to do is change my filter every three months. The reason I went ahead and replaced my plumbing is because I'm completely redoing my kitchen so I'll be ready to house a lot of people coming to help me re-roof the house at the end of this month. New cabinets, appliances, the works. So I didn't want crappy, sediment-filled water ruining my dishes, my clothes and clogging up my ice maker.

[glockmail]

Nah, I don't put any of my dead bodies inside my well shed. I usually chop them up and drive them down to a big lake out of town. :laugh: Actually none of the old pipes were cpvc. But with my new all cpvc pipes and that filter, I'll have clear drinking water for a long time to come. All I have to do is change my filter every three months. The reason I went ahead and replaced my plumbing is because I'm completely redoing my kitchen so I'll be ready to house a lot of people coming to help me re-roof the house at the end of this month. New cabinets, appliances, the works. So I didn't want crappy, sediment-filled water ruining my dishes, my clothes and clogging up my ice maker.

Gee I kinda liked that old refrigerator with the bent front door that didn't seal. Maybe you can put it out on the front porch along with an old couch.

[Hagbard Celine]

Gee I kinda liked that old refrigerator with the bent front door that didn't seal. Maybe you can put it out on the front porch along with an old couch.

It completely pooped out on me. I don't feel like paying to get it fixed. I don't know what to do with it. :dunno:

[glockmail]

I completely pooped out on me. I don't feel like paying to get it fixed. I don't know what to do with it. :dunno: As a general rule you never fix an appliance that's out of warrantee. The only exception would be something real simple you can fix yourself, like a belt on a dryer, possibly a mechanical timer on a washer.

Shit I paid 1000 for a horiztal drum Maytag washer when they first came out and it only lasted 5 years. The repair gal was only 65 to come and diagnose it and she told me in 5 minutes that the repair cost was 450. So i bought a new one, same thing updated, for 700.

Toss the old gal to the curb or use it to store bodies in while they decompose.

[Hagbard Celine]

As a general rule you never fix an appliance that's out of warrantee. The only exception would be something real simple you can fix yourself, like a belt on a dryer, possibly a mechanical timer on a washer.

Shit I paid 1000 for a horiztal drum Maytag washer when they first came out and it only lasted 5 years. The repair gal was only 65 to come and diagnose it and she told me in 5 minutes that the repair cost was 450. So i bought a new one, same thing updated, for 700.

Toss the old gal to the curb or use it to store bodies in while they decompose.

The freezer still works, so I could freeze bodies before I cut them up I guess, but I'm really the type who enjoys the warm, red goodness of fresh blood so that doesn't really work for me. I doubt my trash men would take a fridge off the side of the road. I might dump it in my dumpster when I reroof the house.

[actsnoblemartin]

brilliant, how did you come up with such a cool idea


I built a simple solar hot water heater for my home from mostly junk... I sold the idea to Back Home Magazine, a magazine that is based on homestead living in North Carolina... The system is really simple and not too costly in comparrison to a commercial solar hot water system... Also you don't need many plumbing skills or any permits... if anyone is interested simply reply and I'll explain the system.

I'm also in the process of finishing off my waste motor oil fired boiler that will run a homemade three HP steam engine to run a permanent magnet generator for charging solar battery bank when the sun or wind doesn't quite do the job.

Waste motor oil burns quite clean and is environmentally friendly... I get mine free and the same system can use waste cooking oil and could be adapted for home heating... If you are interested I will be happy to provide details and links to sources for research. It took me a few trials and errors but I can turn an old hot water heater tank glowing orange with my oil burner and the smoke coming out is less than from burning wood. Let me know.

[Mr. P]

Well water in south Atlanta? EEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeWWWWW!:puke3:

[glockmail]

The freezer still works, so I could freeze bodies before I cut them up I guess, but I'm really the type who enjoys the warm, red goodness of fresh blood so that doesn't really work for me. I doubt my trash men would take a fridge off the side of the road. I might dump it in my dumpster when I reroof the house. If the freezer works than the fridge does too. You must have a blockage somewhere. Or you can cut out the partition, drill a hole in the side and make a keg fridge out of it. I had one like that one time. Put enough bumper stickers on it and its really cool.

[glockmail]

Well water in south Atlanta? EEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeWWWWW!:puke3:

Prolly not too bad. I've done some work in urban creeks arond here and the water is actually pretty clean. Cleaner than in farm country, by far.

[Mr. P]

Prolly not too bad. I've done some work in urban creeks arond here and the water is actually pretty clean. Cleaner than in farm country, by far.

The city sewer system has been in very bad shape for years. They commonly spill raw sewage in the Chattahoochee river, line breaks etc..I'd not us a well where Hag is for drinking.

[glockmail]

The city sewer system has been in very bad shape for years. They commonly spill raw sewage in the Chattahoochee river, line breaks etc..I'd not us a well where Hag is for drinking. Yummy nutrient water. :coffee:

[Classact]

AIRBORNE!! :salute:
All the way sir!

brilliant, how did you come up with such a cool ideaIn the 70's I was really into solar energy and Jimmy Carter was prez and was pumping up alternative energy... that was one of the few agreements I had with him... anyway I joined a solar energy club on base that was a joint Army - Air Force club and we had some higher ranks in the club... our club invited a professor from CA to come to Fayetteville Technical College with the promise that ever club member would take the course... The professor was great and the course was great and the club prospered until re-assignments sent us to the four winds... Inspired by the course I built a passive-active solar home on the 11 acre plot... it was a two story post and beam construction made from the wood I traded for lumber from my land... and when I say "I built" I mean I built it on free time and with a little help from my beer drinking friends... took a couple years and cost a little over $20,000... I had it appraised before going to Germany shortly after it was completed for $77,000... I divorced after leaving Germany and gave the house and land to my X to seal the break... Didn't even go back to pick up my brand new 4WD Ford Diesel tractor and implements... love gone bad really sucks!

[kowalskil]

I built a simple solar hot water heater for my home from mostly junk... .

About 20 years ago I built a solar cooker. It was a wooden box of about 2 ft by 2 feet and 7 inches tall. It was covered with two layers of glass. It was used to bake cookies (2-3 hrs on a sunny winter day) and to prepare frankfurters. This was done for fun; no one would buy such an improvisation. The secret was to make sure hot air does not escape easily.