That'll Show 'Em

[Kathianne]

https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2024/04/11/measles-rate-cdc-report/2971712866623/


CDC: Surge in U.S. measles cases threatens elimination statusBy Ehren Wynder



April 11 (UPI) -- More than 100 cases of measles were recorded in the United States since the beginning of 2024, and the rapid spread of the disease could threaten its elimination status, according to a report from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.


According to the CDC report issued Thursday, 338 confirmed measles cases occurred in the country since the beginning of 2020, 29% of which were recorded in 2024.


The median patient age was 3 years, and 91% of patients were unvaccinated or had unknown vaccination status, according to the CDC.


Measles was eliminated in the United States in 2000, meaning the disease is no longer constantly present, but occasional outbreaks do occur due to importations.




The United States nearly lost elimination status in 2019 due to prolonged outbreaks among under-vaccinated, close-knit populations in New York.


The high number of cases this year, 113 as of April 4, could put the country's elimination status at risk again, the report warned.


The largest outbreak in the United States this year began in a migrant shelter in Chicago. The city recorded 61 cases this year, with three this week.


The Chicago Department of Public Health since March has distributed more than 13,000 measles vaccines to contain the spread.


The CDC said, while the risk of widespread transmission still is low thanks to high population immunity, additional actions such as "encouraging vaccination before international travel and rapidly investigating suspected measles cases" are needed to change course.


The CDC recorded an average of five measles cases in the first quarter of each year from 2020-2023 due to low socialization from the COVID-19 pandemic.


"The rapid increase in the number of reported measles cases during the first quarter of 2024 represents a renewed threat to elimination," the report read.


Ninety-six percent of cases in the past four years were associated with importation from international travel, and 61% of those cases were among Americans who were unvaccinated or had an unknown vaccination status.


There have been no reported deaths from measles in the past four years, according to the CDC.


Measles is a highly contagious airborne illness that can cause severe health problems and even death. Young and unvaccinated children are especially vulnerable.


An infected person can spread the disease to up to 90% of people in close contact if none of those people is immune. Symptoms include fever, cough, runny nose, watery eyes and a rash of red spots.


The United States has set a target vaccination rate of 95%, but measles vaccination rates have dropped significantly below that in the past few years. Twelve states and Washington, D.C., had rates below 90% as of the 2022-2023 school year.


During that time, 93.1% of American kindergartners were fully vaccinated, down from 95% in in the 2019-20 school year.


Vaccination rates also declined worldwide, according to the CDC. Around 83% of people received one dose of the measles vaccine in 2022, down from 86% in 2019.

It's only a childhood disease, not a problem:

https://www.cdc.gov/measles/symptoms/complications.html#:~:text=in%20young%20children.-,Encephalitis.,Death.


Severe complications in children and adultsSome people may suffer from severe complications, such as pneumonia (infection of the lungs) and encephalitis (swelling of the brain). They may need to be hospitalized and could die.


complications-01
Hospitalization. About 1 in 5 unvaccinated people in the U.S. who get measles is hospitalized.


complications-02
Pneumonia. As many as 1 out of every 20 children with measles gets pneumonia, the most common cause of death from measles in young children.


complications-03
Encephalitis. About 1 child out of every 1,000 who get measles will develop encephalitis (swelling of the brain) that can lead to convulsions and can leave the child deaf or with intellectual disability.


complications-04
Death. Nearly 1 to 3 of every 1,000 children who become infected with measles will die from respiratory and neurologic complications.


complications-05
Complications during pregnancy. Measles may cause pregnant women who have not had the MMR vaccine to give birth prematurely, or have a low-birth-weight baby.

[revelarts]

Well I guess we're supposed to trust the CDC & their 100% honest numbers again... without question or any skepticism.
Because this is different?

[SassyLady]

This is from 2022. Virologist believes only unvaccinated children will save the world.

https://www.naturalnews.com/2022-10-28-expert-vaccinated-responsible-end-western-civilization.html

[fj1200]

This is from 2022. Virologist believes only unvaccinated children will save the world.

https://www.naturalnews.com/2022-10-28-expert-vaccinated-responsible-end-western-civilization.html

Doesn't seem to be panning out.

[Kathianne]

Doesn't seem to be panning out.

What will be, will be. If he is correct, as he says himself, the genie is out of the bottle. How awful that parents immunized their children and now with covid, that put die on everyone's backs. Or not.

I'm not freaking out, anymore than I did with Covid. Do the best one can and relax.

[revelarts]

Seems the Japanese are honestly looking into Cancer effects of the vaccines

peer reviewed study
Increased Age-Adjusted Cancer Mortality After the Third mRNA-Lipid Nanoparticle Vaccine Dose During the COVID-19 Pandemic in Japan

...Researchers have reported that the SARS-CoV-2 mRNA-LNP vaccine may pose the risk of development and progression of cancer [25-28]. In addition, several case reports have described cancer developing or worsening after vaccination and discussed possible causal links between cancer and mRNA-LNP vaccination [29-34]....
Conclusions
Statistically significant increases in age-adjusted mortality rates of all cancer and some specific types of cancer, namely, ovarian cancer, leukemia, prostate, lip/oral/pharyngeal, pancreatic, and breast cancers, were observed in 2022 after two-thirds of the Japanese population had received the third or later dose of SARS-CoV-2 mRNA-LNP vaccine. These particularly marked increases in mortality rates of these ERα-sensitive cancers may be attributable to several mechanisms of the mRNA-LNP vaccination rather than COVID-19 infection itself or reduced cancer care due to the lockdown. The significance of this possibility warrants further studies. ....
https://www.cureus.com/articles/196275-increased-age-adjusted-cancer-mortality-after-the-third-mrna-lipid-nanoparticle-vaccine-dose-during-the-covid-19-pandemic-in-japan#!/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onww2X-ecfg

[fj1200]

Seems the Japanese are honestly looking into Cancer effects of the vaccines

peer reviewed study
...These particularly marked increases in mortality rates of these ERα-sensitive cancers may be attributable to several mechanisms of the mRNA-LNP vaccination rather than COVID-19 infection itself or reduced cancer care due to the lockdown....

Ask yourself the likelihood of the results after 2 years of reduced care due to lockdowns or due to the vaccine with less time to act? And if the vaccination rate didn't exceed 80% of the Japanese population then I'd say you have a built in control group. Nevertheless will you update the results if it becomes likely the former or only if it becomes likely the latter?

[revelarts]

[/INDENT]Ask yourself the likelihood of the results after 2 years of reduced care due to lockdowns or due to the vaccine with less time to act? And if the vaccination rate didn't exceed 80% of the Japanese population then I'd say you have a built in control group. Nevertheless will you update the results if it becomes likely the former or only if it becomes likely the latter?


I have no problem updating results if more evidence changes the current picture.
Will you accept the evidence as it appears TODAY?



...These particularly marked increases in mortality rates of these ERα-sensitive cancers may be attributable to several mechanisms of the mRNA-LNP vaccination rather than COVID-19 infection itself or reduced cancer care due to the lockdown...

[Gunny]

Well I guess we're supposed to trust the CDC & their 100% honest numbers again... without question or any skepticism.
Because this is different?

No. We should trust you without question or skepticism:rolleyes:

[Gunny]

What will be, will be. If he is correct, as he says himself, the genie is out of the bottle. How awful that parents immunized their children and now with covid, that put die on everyone's backs. Or not.

I'm not freaking out, anymore than I did with Covid. Do the best one can and relax.Bored enough to pull chains are we?:whistling2:

[fj1200]

I have no problem updating results if more evidence changes the current picture.
Will you accept the evidence as it appears TODAY?


...These particularly marked increases in mortality rates of these ERα-sensitive cancers may be attributable to several mechanisms of the mRNA-LNP vaccination rather than COVID-19 infection itself or reduced cancer care due to the lockdown...


The evidence doesn't say anything now other than correlation and correlating to multiple possibilities, some stated and some not. I'm expecting that if the evidence changes the picture then it won't be making the internet rounds.

[revelarts]

The evidence doesn't say anything now other than correlation and correlating to multiple possibilities, some stated and some not. I'm expecting that if the evidence changes the picture then it won't be making the internet rounds.

really?
So the real answer is "no" you won't accept the evidence today.

If that's NOT what you're saying well I guess IF new evidence comes out showing otherwise i can always quote your political spokespersons like comment here as my reply.

"The evidence doesn't say anything now other than correlation and correlating to multiple possibilities, some stated and some not."

[fj1200]

really?
So the real answer is "no" you won't accept the evidence today.

If that's NOT what you're saying well I guess IF new evidence comes out showing otherwise i can always quote your political spokespersons like comment here as my reply.

"The evidence doesn't say anything now other than correlation and correlating to multiple possibilities, some stated and some not."



Please don't try to restate my words which were already quite clear. FWIW I don't have political spokespersons and I also don't overinterpret studies or hang my hat on "... may be..."

[revelarts]

Do Vaccines Make Us Healthier? (2024 update)

"A report on the eye-opening results of three studies released recently to compare the overall, long-term health of vaccinated and unvaccinated subjects. Rather than focusing on the short-term, symptom-suppressing effects of vaccinations--as manufacturers and public health agencies do--these studies assessed whether the influence of vaccines on a person's body in general led to overall healthier or unhealthier lives. Everyone who cares about the future health of themselves or their families should consider what the data in these important studies reveal in order to make a truly informed decision. Update (2024). Courtesy Greg Glaser and Dr. Brian Hooker"

https://rumble.com/v4pkvsf-do-vaccines-make-us-healthier-2024-update.html



Science is settled? can't be questioned. everybody knows. do you remember polio?!

[SassyLady]

Do Vaccines Make Us Healthier? (2024 update)

"A report on the eye-opening results of three studies released recently to compare the overall, long-term health of vaccinated and unvaccinated subjects. Rather than focusing on the short-term, symptom-suppressing effects of vaccinations--as manufacturers and public health agencies do--these studies assessed whether the influence of vaccines on a person's body in general led to overall healthier or unhealthier lives. Everyone who cares about the future health of themselves or their families should consider what the data in these important studies reveal in order to make a truly informed decision. Update (2024). Courtesy Greg Glaser and Dr. Brian Hooker"

https://rumble.com/v4pkvsf-do-vaccines-make-us-healthier-2024-update.html



Science is settled? can't be questioned. everybody knows. do you remember polio?!
Rev .. don't think anyone here goes to Rumble.

[revelarts]

Rev .. don't think anyone here goes to Rumble.
All us old people should to try new things from time to time.

[SassyLady]

All us old people should to try new things from time to time.

I practically live on Rumble since Google and YouTube starting censoring everything

[fj1200]

Shouldn't the standard be things that are factual?

[revelarts]

Shouldn't the standard be things that are factual?
Should be.
Sad thing is, some people aren't willing to look at or accept any facts that don't align with what they've believed for years about some subjects.

And some folks can't make any conclusions based on facts.
"evidence doesn't say anything now other than correlation and correlating to multiple possibilities, some stated and some not."
I mean, that will alway be the case, on any subject.
So there's no need to change any opinion about anything.

FACTS will always make "correlations to multiple possibilities"

Is Joe Biden less competent and capable now than he was 20 years ago?
Well the evidence doesn't say anything now other than correlation and correlating to multiple possibilities.

But people who are being honest will say that the some evidence on hand CLEARLY points to the fact that some possibilities are so likely as to be reasonably accepted as fact.
Rather than pretend the jury is still out.
In case of testing pharmaceuticals the burden on proof is the pharmaceuticals to prove they are SAFE & EFFECTIVE. ANY negative affects noted during it's use is rightfully assumed to be caused by the NEW drug until proven otherwise.
At least that used to be the standard.

But hey multiple possibilities.. could be climate change, or too much sleep, or too much exercise, or eggs, or cough Syrup .."scientist say".
but evidence can't say anything or point to anything.

[revelarts]

BTW

Local child diagnosed with mumps

But amazingly the child was in fact vaccinated.
the best version of "the facts" is that the mumps portion of the MMR vaccines are 88+percent effective. great!
(but even that's questionable)
If 10% of 10,000 vaccinated people get the mumps that's 1000 people.
If 1000 people in any city got the mumps , how many people would assume that ALL had been vaccinated?
How many would just Blame "antivaxxers" anyway? Without any evidence of that.
Next time we hear of an "outbreak", maybe the assumption should be that the vaccine haven't worked? Is that to crazy to imagine?
Instead of blaming antivaxxers? Since we're just guessing anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNGuE4CXDpc


In the link below we listen to a PRO-Vaccine Nurse go though all the steps she's "supposed to" when 1 of her 4 vaccinated children gets the mumps.
-Practicing Nurse surprised to find that her child got the mumps, Then had her family checked to see if they needed boosters for any of their vaccines. Everyone in house ends up with boosters . She then re-discovers various info such as the vaccines are only supoosed to be effective to various degrees 80-96% depending on the disease. But was shocked to find that everyone in her house got the mumps but 1. Even after proper isolation. Including her, even though she had tested as immune to mumps.
Her family somehow was only protected by lest than 25%, nearly whole family got mumps.
Was also shocked at how many assumed that she and her family had not been vaccinated and the negative wave sent their way.
And how many were blaming "anti-vaxxers" for the outbreak.
https://rumble.com/v4r0igq-practicing-nurse-surprised-to-find-that-her-child-got-the-mumps-and.html

But hey Maybe the fact that her whole family got the mumps isn't evidence of anything concerning the effectiveness of vaccines.
If the vaccine works on ONE person that's 100% evidence that they work. and no one should question them.
If they don't work for a few folks, well then that's NOT evidence of anything... evidence doesn't say anything now other than correlation and correlating to multiple possibilities.

[revelarts]

--- moved

[fj1200]

And some folks can't make any conclusions based on facts.
"evidence doesn't say anything now other than correlation and correlating to multiple possibilities, some stated and some not."
I mean, that will alway be the case, on any subject.
So there's no need to change any opinion about anything.

Taking things out of context and being an a$$ doesn't help your case.


Should be.
Sad thing is, some people aren't willing to look at or accept any facts that don't align with what they've believed for years about some subjects.

It's called confirmation bias. We all suffer from it.

[revelarts]

Taking things out of context and being an a$$ doesn't help your case.

the point is, based on what you said, the context does NOT matter.
"evidence doesn't say anything now other than correlation and correlating to multiple possibilities, some stated and some not."

There's NO amount of evidence on any subject that can overcome that kind of objection.
By defaults it puts any real conclusion in the unknown future.
And simply dismisses all evidence and asserts all the current facts at hand don't even vaguely point to ANY single possibility known or unknown.

Maybe i could have pointed that out more nicely.
But it doesn't change the fact of what your words mean.

If you don't want to accept any evidence or thier obvious conclusions "now" fine.
But there's no need to be upset when i just point out what you said.




It's called confirmation bias. We all suffer from it.
Yes, sadly we all do. I know i'm guilty.
and we all should try to recognize it and deal with it.
I don't like doing it myself. but I do want to be honest about what's going on in the world and not just hold to my opinions because they are my opinions.

[fj1200]

the point is, based on what you said, the context does NOT matter.
"evidence doesn't say anything now other than correlation and correlating to multiple possibilities, some stated and some not."

There's NO amount of evidence on any subject that can overcome that kind of objection.
By defaults it puts any real conclusion in the unknown future.
And simply dismisses all evidence and asserts all the current facts at hand don't even vaguely point to ANY single possibility known or unknown.

Maybe i could have pointed that out more nicely.
But it doesn't change the fact of what your words mean.

If you don't want to accept any evidence or thier obvious conclusions "now" fine.
But there's no need to be upset when i just point out what you said.

You clearly don't understand what I said so please don't try to tell me what I said. The link you posted essentially said nothing so therefore nothing can be derived from it. That is what you don't seem to understand. Since you like to passively aggressively troll my words from other threads then I'm sure you locate said thread where I'll be happy to correct your understanding rather than whatever you call this.

And to the bold? Patently false.

[revelarts]

You clearly don't understand what I said so please don't try to tell me what I said. The link you posted essentially said nothing so therefore nothing can be derived from it. That is what you don't seem to understand. Since you like to passively aggressively troll my words from other threads then I'm sure you locate said thread where I'll be happy to correct your understanding rather than whatever you call this.

And to the bold? Patently false.

Previously in this thread...



I have no problem updating results if more evidence changes the current picture.
Will you accept the evidence as it appears TODAY?

...These particularly marked increases in mortality rates of these ERα-sensitive cancers may be attributable to several mechanisms of the mRNA-LNP vaccination rather than COVID-19 infection itself or reduced cancer care due to the lockdown...


The evidence doesn't say anything now other than correlation and correlating to multiple possibilities, some stated and some not. I'm expecting that if the evidence changes the picture then it won't be making the internet rounds.


However what the link in the evidence says is"
"...These particularly marked increases in mortality rates of these ERα-sensitive cancers may be attributable to several mechanisms of the mRNA-LNP vaccination rather than COVID-19 infection itself or reduced cancer care due to the lockdown...

https://www.cureus.com/articles/196275-increased-age-adjusted-cancer-mortality-after-the-third-mrna-lipid-nanoparticle-vaccine-dose-during-the-covid-19-pandemic-in-japan#!/


So maybe you can see why your comment "evidence doesn't say ANYTHING"... correlation blah blah Multiple possibilities unstated ...blah. threw me off.
Sorry man but this reply is just not credible. and it's not a problem with my reading comprehension.
If you meant to say something different you should have used different language.
But the language you used is just professional backhanded dismissal of the facts. not an honest rebuttal or a true assessment of what's been presented.

... the beginning of the link outlines the question:

"During the COVID-19 pandemic, excess deaths including cancer have become a concern in Japan, which has a rapidly aging population. Thus, this study aimed to evaluate how age-adjusted mortality rates (AMRs) for different types of cancer in Japan changed during the COVID-19 pandemic (2020-2022). Official statistics from Japan were used to compare observed annual and monthly AMRs with predicted rates based on pre-pandemic (2010-2019) figures using logistic regression analysis. No significant excess mortality was observed during the first year of the pandemic (2020). However, some excess cancer mortalities were observed in 2021 after mass vaccination with the first and second vaccine doses, and significant excess mortalities were observed for all cancers and some specific types of cancer (including ovarian cancer, leukemia, prostate cancer, lip/oral/pharyngeal cancer, pancreatic cancer, and breast cancer) after mass vaccination with the third dose in 2022. AMRs for the four cancers with the most deaths (lung, colorectal, stomach, and liver) showed a decreasing trend until the first year of the pandemic in 2020, but the rate of decrease slowed in 2021 and 2022. This study discusses possible explanations for these increases in age-adjusted cancer mortality rates."

the part I quoted is from the conclusion
...These particularly marked increases in mortality rates of these ERα-sensitive cancers may be attributable to several mechanisms of the mRNA-LNP vaccination rather than COVID-19 infection itself or reduced cancer care due to the lockdown...


So TODAY, they've practically ruled out lack of Cancer Care, and the covid virus itself.
the only 2 major factors in Japan (an Elsewhere) that were significantly different in people's lives. to cause the EXCESS cancer deaths reported.
As i said before if you want to keep the jury out, that's fine, but AT THIS POINT the evidence points to the vaccines.
Even if you'd rather not go there.
the studies rules Out Cancer Care, and the covid virus itself But if you want to say it could be multiple possibilities, some stated and some not.
Fine. but please don't try to gaslight me saying that's what the study/evidence points to.
Yes, the study leaves the door open, as science should, but AT THIS POINT the BEST and most likely suspects are the vaccines.
If you want to wait 8-10 years for more studies. fine. that's what i wanted to do as well. While not assuming they are safe & effective until then.
But right NOW, they look like crap already.

[fj1200]

Previously in this thread...



However what the link in the evidence says is"
"...These particularly marked increases in mortality rates of these ERα-sensitive cancers may be attributable to several mechanisms of the mRNA-LNP vaccination rather than COVID-19 infection itself or reduced cancer care due to the lockdown...

https://www.cureus.com/articles/196275-increased-age-adjusted-cancer-mortality-after-the-third-mrna-lipid-nanoparticle-vaccine-dose-during-the-covid-19-pandemic-in-japan#!/


So maybe you can see why your comment "evidence doesn't say ANYTHING"... correlation blah blah Multiple possibilities unstated ...blah. threw me off.
Sorry man but this reply is just not credible. and it's not a problem with my reading comprehension.
If you meant to say something different you should have used different language.
But the language you used is just professional backhanded dismissal of the facts. not an honest rebuttal or a true assessment of what's been presented.

... the beginning of the link outlines the question:

"During the COVID-19 pandemic, excess deaths including cancer have become a concern in Japan, which has a rapidly aging population. Thus, this study aimed to evaluate how age-adjusted mortality rates (AMRs) for different types of cancer in Japan changed during the COVID-19 pandemic (2020-2022). Official statistics from Japan were used to compare observed annual and monthly AMRs with predicted rates based on pre-pandemic (2010-2019) figures using logistic regression analysis. No significant excess mortality was observed during the first year of the pandemic (2020). However, some excess cancer mortalities were observed in 2021 after mass vaccination with the first and second vaccine doses, and significant excess mortalities were observed for all cancers and some specific types of cancer (including ovarian cancer, leukemia, prostate cancer, lip/oral/pharyngeal cancer, pancreatic cancer, and breast cancer) after mass vaccination with the third dose in 2022. AMRs for the four cancers with the most deaths (lung, colorectal, stomach, and liver) showed a decreasing trend until the first year of the pandemic in 2020, but the rate of decrease slowed in 2021 and 2022. This study discusses possible explanations for these increases in age-adjusted cancer mortality rates."

the part I quoted is from the conclusion
...These particularly marked increases in mortality rates of these ERα-sensitive cancers may be attributable to several mechanisms of the mRNA-LNP vaccination rather than COVID-19 infection itself or reduced cancer care due to the lockdown...


So TODAY, they've practically ruled out lack of Cancer Care, and the covid virus itself.
the only 2 major factors in Japan (an Elsewhere) that were significantly different in people's lives. to cause the EXCESS cancer deaths reported.
As i said before if you want to keep the jury out, that's fine, but AT THIS POINT the evidence points to the vaccines.
Even if you'd rather not go there.
the studies rules Out Cancer Care, and the covid virus itself But if you want to say it could be multiple possibilities, some stated and some not.
Fine. but please don't try to gaslight me saying that's what the study/evidence points to.
Yes, the study leaves the door open, as science should, but AT THIS POINT the BEST and most likely suspects are the vaccines.
If you want to wait 8-10 years for more studies. fine. that's what i wanted to do as well. While not assuming they are safe & effective until then.
But right NOW, they look like crap already.

Per usual you emphasize the wrong thing. It might be attributable to that and it also might not be. Nothing I said was incorrect no matter how much you misread it and misinterpret it. It's not worth going more into depth because it would just be what-ifs and you are looking for one thing to the exclusion of anything else.

[revelarts]

A newly published Japanese study confirms UK Professor of Oncology at St George's Hospital Medical School, London Angus Dalgleish’s concerns about mRNA injections causing cancer:


"A paper was published out of Japan and it was the Japan's Office of National Statistics, which don't hide, meddle, fiddle...But it shows absolutely clearly that the cancer incidence has gone up in Japan just due to the vaccine program. They've correlated it absolutely beautifully. I'm alarmed by it because they've done it on deaths...but they've picked it up within 2 years. It's highly significant increase of the cancers and everybody else is starting to see this now...And I was just delighted that so many people from around the world all over the world have published data showing how boosters in particular can suppress your immune response and actually drive cancers that you have but didn't know you had, as it were."




his comments from 2023 I believe.
"At the end of last year I reported that I was seeing melanoma patients who had been stable for years relapse after their first booster (their third injection). I was told it was merely a coincidence and to keep quiet about it, but it became impossible to do so. The number of my patients affected has been rising ever since. I saw two more cases of cancer relapse post booster vaccination in my patients just this last week.

Other oncologists have contacted me from all over the world including from Australia and the US. The consensus is that it is no longer confined to melanoma but that increased incidence of lymphomas, leukaemias and kidney cancers is being seen after booster injections. Additionally my colorectal cancer colleagues report an epidemic of explosive cancers (those presenting with multiple metastatic spread in the liver and elsewhere). All these cancers are occurring (with very few exceptions) in patients who have been forced to have a Covid booster whether they were keen or not, for many so they could travel.

So why are these cancers occurring?
T cell suppression was my first likely explanation given that immunotherapy is so effective in these cancers. However we must also now consider DNA plasmid and SV40 integration in promoting cancer development, a feature made even more concerning by reports that mRNA spike protein binds p53 and other cancer suppressor genes. It is very clear and very frightening that these vaccines have several elements to cause a perfect storm in cancer development in those patients lucky enough to have avoided heart attacks, clots, strokes, autoimmune diseases and other common adverse reactions to the Covid vaccines.

To advise booster vaccines, as is the current case, is no more and no less than medical incompetence; to continue to do so with the above information is medical negligence which can carry a custodial sentence.
No ifs or buts any longer. All mRNA vaccines must be halted and banned now."

Angus Dalgleish
FRCP FRCPath FMedSci is a professor of oncology at St George's, University of London,
best known for his contributions to HIV/AIDS research.

[fj1200]

... study confirms... correlated it absolutely beautifully...

The former does not equal the latter.

[SassyLady]

The former does not equal the latter.

Doesn't negate it either.

[fj1200]

Doesn't negate it either.

Actually the definitions of words do negate it as presented.

"... the cancer incidence has gone up in Japan just due to the vaccine program. They've correlated it absolutely beautifully. "

Correlation is not causation. I thought you gave some credence to the Great Barrington Declaration. If I'm not mistaken it drew a line between not going to regular doctor appointments with increases in other diseases/cancer?.

[revelarts]

Actually the definitions of words do negate it as presented.

"... the cancer incidence has gone up in Japan just due to the vaccine program. They've correlated it absolutely beautifully. "

Correlation is not causation. I thought you gave some credence to the Great Barrington Declaration. If I'm not mistaken it drew a line between not going to regular doctor appointments with increases in other diseases/cancer?.


So at the very least, rationally, it'd follow that since "correlation is not causation" there's NO good reason to take any vaccine, or drug at this point, because no on can ever honestly assume correlation & causation.
Seems there's no level of correlation that will convince some folks.

......
Eyewitness: Officer I saw him fire the gun and then the man fell down dead from a wound made by this piece on metal found in what's left of his brain.
Police Officer: Well correlation is not causation ya know!
........



Want to know what doesn't correlate?
LESS disease & less cancers with more vaccines.
For some unknowable reason there's more.

[fj1200]

So at the very least, rationally, it'd follow that since "correlation is not causation" there's NO good reason to take any vaccine, or drug at this point, because no on can ever honestly assume correlation & causation.
Seems there's no level of correlation that will convince some folks.

......
Eyewitness: Officer I saw him fire the gun and then the man fell down dead from a wound made by this piece on metal found in what's left of his brain.
Police Officer: Well correlation is not causation ya know!
........

Want to know what doesn't correlate?
LESS disease & less cancers with more vaccines.
For some unknowable reason there's more.

Your example indicates you don't really understand the scientific question. I recall you posted something about ivermectin and Uttar Pradesh ages ago and your claims didn't really pan out.

[Kathianne]

Your example indicates you don't really understand the scientific question. I recall you posted something about ivermectin and Uttar Pradesh ages ago and your claims didn't really pan out.

Which is part of the reason there's no point in continuing discussions like this one. I'm so reminded in the idea that what one side accuses the other of, is most often their own greatest flaw.

[fj1200]

Which is part of the reason there's no point in continuing discussions like this one. I'm so reminded in the idea that what one side accuses the other of, is most often their own greatest flaw.

We should be able to look critically at what others post and what we want to post. My greatest fear is posting something that doesn't say what I think it says. As in the greatest rule of debating; don't ask a question you don't already know the answer to. :laugh:

[Kathianne]

We should be able to look critically at what others post and what we want to post. My greatest fear is posting something that doesn't say what I think it says. As in the greatest rule of debating; don't ask a question you don't already know the answer to. :laugh:

Too many no longer seem able to see that any problem may have more than one answer. Some may be preferable to others, but when decisions need to be made, we all do our best. Now rather than any empathy, folks want to fight the last war. I'm just not trying to do that, considering the state of the country, my own age, my grandkids, I'm much more focused on what's coming. ;)

[fj1200]

Too many no longer seem able to see that any problem may have more than one answer. Some may be preferable to others, but when decisions need to be made, we all do our best. Now rather than any empathy, folks want to fight the last war. I'm just not trying to do that, considering the state of the country, my own age, my grandkids, I'm much more focused on what's coming. ;)

A related story I think. So in Sunday School today, in the middle of a series on how to read the bible... hermeneutics, in my progressive class someone is always talking about those darned fundamentalists and how those folks are so wrong with little acknowledgement that they could be making the same mistake.

[revelarts]

Your example indicates you don't really understand the scientific question. I recall you posted something about ivermectin and Uttar Pradesh ages ago and your claims didn't really pan out.
your example indicates that you're dodging the facts at hand.

Because your better understanding of science argument isn't with me & my record, but with the UK professor of oncology and Japanese gov't FJ.

[Gunny]

Too many no longer seem able to see that any problem may have more than one answer. Some may be preferable to others, but when decisions need to be made, we all do our best. Now rather than any empathy, folks want to fight the last war. I'm just not trying to do that, considering the state of the country, my own age, my grandkids, I'm much more focused on what's coming. ;)

I can say this as it relates to that, and the topic.

I've had the measles. If there's an outbreak and a chance I can get them again, I'm lining right up for the shot. Anyone who doesn't want to can take their chances proving how tough they think their immune system and or home-grown remedies are. Having endured a couple of weeks of sores all over my body that itch like hell continuously and spread and/or leave scars if you scratch them because there was no immunization for them at the time?

It's not a matter of fear. Obviously, since I'm sitting here typing, I survived:rolleyes: It's a matter of "Why?". Why put myself through that shit again for no real, good reason? Two things I can't stand: itching and missing workouts.

[Kathianne]

I can say this as it relates to that, and the topic.

I've had the measles. If there's an outbreak and a chance I can get them again, I'm lining right up for the shot. Anyone who doesn't want to can take their chances proving how tough they think their immune system and or home-grown remedies are. Having endured a couple of weeks of sores all over my body that itch like hell continuously and spread and/or leave scars if you scratch them because there was no immunization for them at the time?

It's not a matter of fear. Obviously, since I'm sitting here typing, I survived:rolleyes: It's a matter of "Why?". Why put myself through that shit again for no real, good reason? Two things I can't stand: itching and missing workouts.

I'm so sorry to hear that. I hope you feel better soon. Aveeno baths helped the kids and my DIL with shingles.

[fj1200]

your example indicates that you're dodging the facts at hand.

Because your better understanding of science argument isn't with me & my record, but with the UK professor of oncology and Japanese gov't FJ.

I have no argument with the excerpt you've pulled. You and the UK professor are, IMO, overreading what it actually says. They've done nothing more than analyze raw statistics and have in no way made a controlled study of the vaccines and their effects. If they did then the study would say that vaccinated individuals had x levels of cancer incidence and unvaccinated individuals had <x levels of cancer incidence.



"... cancers may be attributable..."

"This study discusses possible explanations...

What fact am I dodging?

[Gunny]

I'm so sorry to hear that. I hope you feel better soon. Aveeno baths helped the kids and my DIL with shingles."Had". Long, long time ago. Early 60s, pre-vaccine. I'm fine now. Point is, not doing it again if i don't have to :)

[Kathianne]

"Had". Long, long time ago. Early 60s, pre-vaccine. I'm fine now. Point is, not doing it again if i don't have to :)

Gotcha! Wow, I was thinking there's not boosters after completing MMR series.

[Gunny]

Gotcha! Wow, I was thinking there's not boosters after completing MMR series.I really need to do some research. I was under the impression once you had them it was one and done. I have had the Rubella vaccine. Have no idea what the shelf-life is on any of that for old folk :)

[revelarts]

Too many no longer seem able to see that any problem may have more than one answer.
This is all I and many others wanted acknowledged from the beginning.
but mask, lockdowns and vaccines were promoted as THE only way to deal with covid Kath.
everyone was supposed to get on the same page ... OR ELSE.
Everything else, like ivermectin, was and still is not taken seriously.
worse the information has been censored, banned, websites shut down, and many drs lost their credentials etc..

Yes, many people are not open to consider anything but what they've long understood as "the right way" to approach some problems.
But frankly that problem is not one that leans in my direction.



Some may be preferable to others, but when decisions need to be made, we all do our best. Now rather than any empathy, folks want to fight the last war. I'm just not trying to do that, considering the state of the country, my own age, my grandkids, I'm much more focused on what's coming. ;)

So when the next coming gain of function virus that the govt funds comes along do you think the gov't will point your kids & grand kids in the right direction to make the best decisions?
So no one should really talk about what happened this time?
Or that the vaccines they've taken "maybe" be problem down the road is not worth discussing?
really?

I mean As i said earlier, it's fine if people want to wait for more info on the vaccine dangers and assume there's not enough info either way... for them to think there's a "serious" problem.
ok, that's fine.
But personally I Just don't think it's honest to pretend that at this point there is not MORE information pointing in one direction than another.

People's feelings are important of course, but somehow, 3 years of HARD CORE lies & censorship of facts, and real govt coercion to the point of job & biz losses. Not to mention real medical injuries and death, any empathy left to send to those folks?

I get we all can only deal with so many issues but please, let's not act like we should all just be polite and move on.
Many people literally cannot move on because they have "mysterious" new cancers, heart damage, other injuries or are dead.
It's not the last war. It's a problem now, people are sick now. People are getting/dealing with cancers & heart problems now AND the drug companies and WHO are promoting MORE of the same vaccines and gov't or WHO controls to tell people what to take now.

It may not be your issue but it's not just a matter of the old war.
we all need to do our best when making decisions,
and have the freedom to do so,
to do that we all need access to enough information medically and the legal freedoms that allow us to do what we think is best.
Seems like something still worth talking about IMO.
:cool:

[Gunny]

This is all I and many others wanted acknowledged from the beginning.
but mask, lockdowns and vaccines were promoted as THE only way to deal with covid Kath.
everyone was supposed to get on the same page ... OR ELSE.
Everything else, like ivermectin, was and still is not taken seriously.
worse the information has been censored, banned, websites shut down, and many drs lost their credentials etc..

Yes, many people are not open to consider anything but what they've long understood as "the right way" to approach some problems.
But frankly that problem is not one that leans in my direction.



So when the next coming gain of function virus that the govt funds comes along do you think the gov't will point your kids & grand kids in the right direction to make the best decisions?
So no one should really talk about what happened this time?
Or that the vaccines they've taken "maybe" be problem down the road is not worth discussing?
really?

I mean As i said earlier, it's fine if people want to wait for more info on the vaccine dangers and assume there's not enough info either way... for them to think there's a "serious" problem.
ok, that's fine.
But personally I Just don't think it's honest to pretend that at this point there is not MORE information pointing in one direction than another.

People's feelings are important of course, but somehow, 3 years of HARD CORE lies & censorship of facts, and real govt coercion to the point of job & biz losses. Not to mention real medical injuries and death, any empathy left to send to those folks?

I get we all can only deal with so many issues but please, let's not act like we should all just be polite and move on.
Many people literally cannot move on because they have "mysterious" new cancers, heart damage, other injuries or are dead.
It's not the last war. It's a problem now, people are sick now. People are getting/dealing with cancers & heart problems now AND the drug companies and WHO are promoting MORE of the same vaccines and gov't or WHO controls to tell people what to take now.

It may not be your issue but it's not just a matter of the old war.
we all need to do our best when making decisions,
and have the freedom to do so,
to do that we all need access to enough information medically and the legal freedoms that allow us to do what we think is best.
Seems like something still worth talking about IMO.
:cool:

It's 2024, not 2020. Time to move on.

[Kathianne]

It's 2024, not 2020. Time to move on.

Yep. Choices made. Regrets expressed where thought appropriate. I for one never hassled anyone to do as I thought. Period.

[SassyLady]

Actually the definitions of words do negate it as presented.

"... the cancer incidence has gone up in Japan just due to the vaccine program. They've correlated it absolutely beautifully. "

Correlation is not causation. I thought you gave some credence to the Great Barrington Declaration. If I'm not mistaken it drew a line between not going to regular doctor appointments with increases in other diseases/cancer?.

I didn't get that from reading the Declaration. It basically said lockdowns are harmful because it reduces herd immunity.

I believe that the vaccine has caused AIDS to escalate and more cytokine storm events which allows cancer to proliferate.

Healthy people dying suddenly is starting to be linked to the overactive immune system that the mRna shots are causing.

But you belive what you want.

[SassyLady]

Your example indicates you don't really understand the scientific question. I recall you posted something about ivermectin and Uttar Pradesh ages ago and your claims didn't really pan out.

They didn't?

[SassyLady]

Yep. Choices made. Regrets expressed where thought appropriate. I for one never hassled anyone to do as I thought. Period.

Posting info is not hassling ... it's informing. People here post info quite a bit that I find redundant but I don't denigrate them for it. Maybe someday something they post will click and open a little crack of understanding. I don't tell them to move on just because I don't agree with the info.

[SassyLady]

Shouldn't the standard be things that are factual?

Depends on who decides what the facts are. Government deciding what is true and then censoring those who post facts they don't agree with should concern everyone.

[SassyLady]

BTW

Local child diagnosed with mumps

But amazingly the child was in fact vaccinated.
the best version of "the facts" is that the mumps portion of the MMR vaccines are 88+percent effective. great!
(but even that's questionable)
If 10% of 10,000 vaccinated people get the mumps that's 1000 people.
If 1000 people in any city got the mumps , how many people would assume that ALL had been vaccinated?
How many would just Blame "antivaxxers" anyway? Without any evidence of that.
Next time we hear of an "outbreak", maybe the assumption should be that the vaccine haven't worked? Is that to crazy to imagine?
Instead of blaming antivaxxers? Since we're just guessing anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNGuE4CXDpc


In the link below we listen to a PRO-Vaccine Nurse go though all the steps she's "supposed to" when 1 of her 4 vaccinated children gets the mumps.
-Practicing Nurse surprised to find that her child got the mumps, Then had her family checked to see if they needed boosters for any of their vaccines. Everyone in house ends up with boosters . She then re-discovers various info such as the vaccines are only supoosed to be effective to various degrees 80-96% depending on the disease. But was shocked to find that everyone in her house got the mumps but 1. Even after proper isolation. Including her, even though she had tested as immune to mumps.
Her family somehow was only protected by lest than 25%, nearly whole family got mumps.
Was also shocked at how many assumed that she and her family had not been vaccinated and the negative wave sent their way.
And how many were blaming "anti-vaxxers" for the outbreak.
https://rumble.com/v4r0igq-practicing-nurse-surprised-to-find-that-her-child-got-the-mumps-and.html

But hey Maybe the fact that her whole family got the mumps isn't evidence of anything concerning the effectiveness of vaccines.
If the vaccine works on ONE person that's 100% evidence that they work. and no one should question them.
If they don't work for a few folks, well then that's NOT evidence of anything... evidence doesn't say anything now other than correlation and correlating to multiple possibilities.

I object to all the other crap they put into the vaccines that cause long term issues. So, even if they relieve some of the worst symptoms for the current virus is it worth jeopardizing your health in other areas?

[fj1200]

I didn't get that from reading the Declaration. It basically said lockdowns are harmful because it reduces herd immunity.

I believe that the vaccine has caused AIDS to escalate and more cytokine storm events which allows cancer to proliferate.

Healthy people dying suddenly is starting to be linked to the overactive immune system that the mRna shots are causing.

But you belive what you want.

The part related to this particular discussion is...


Coming from both the left and right, and around the world, we have devoted our careers to protecting people. Current lockdown policies are producing devastating effects on short and long-term public health. The results (to name a few) include lower childhood vaccination rates, worsening cardiovascular disease outcomes, fewer cancer screenings and deteriorating mental health – leading to greater excess mortality in years to come, with the working class and younger members of society carrying the heaviest burden. Keeping students out of school is a grave injustice.

I believe things that are shown. And no far in this thread it has not been shown in Japan.


They didn't?

No.


Depends on who decides what the facts are. Government deciding what is true and then censoring those who post facts they don't agree with should concern everyone.

Facts are facts. Government choosing their facts is no better than others choosing their facts.

[Kathianne]

The part related to this particular discussion is...



I believe things that are shown. And no far in this thread it has not been shown in Japan.



No.



Facts are facts. Government choosing their facts is no better than others choosing their facts.

Impossible convo you're attempting.

[SassyLady]

Impossible convo you're attempting.
I agree with you.

[revelarts]

...So when the next coming gain of function virus that the govt funds comes along do you think the gov't will point your kids & grand kids in the right direction to make the best decisions?
So no one should really talk about what happened this time?
Or that the vaccines they've taken "maybe" be problem down the road is not worth discussing?...
It's 2024, not 2020. Time to move on.
So your answer to the questions is, yes.
& Gunny you seem to have said that you've already decided to get the next vaccine the govt spits out and not worry about any consequences for yourself or anyone else.
ok, no worries, all the best to you. I hope that works out.

But, if you Kath & FJ don't mind i'll keep talking about it.
I'm not forcing anyone to read my post, much less respond. enjoy your medications.
move on.



Yep. Choices made. Regrets expressed where thought appropriate. I for one never hassled anyone to do as I thought. Period.
thing is Kath, it's not personal.
I only replied to your personal situation when you bring it up.
The study from the Japan doesn't address you or gunny's personal thoughts or actions. neither does the UK oncologist's.
They are pointing out facts for everyone today, based on actions taken BY THE GOVT & BIG PHARMA in 2019-2020... no matter what your personal POV was in 2020.
You did not censor or close schools or biz or fire people or coerce others to take experimental drugs.
But I do think it's wise to LEARN from the govts pass mistakes. rather than giving them a pass. Personal correction and insight is great but letting the govt know that this kind of action will not be toltarated in the future for you kids and grandkids might be something others want to point out from time to time.

Rather than just walking away from the biggest govt & medical disruption of American life in the past 100 years as if it was a little hickup.
that doesn't even really need an official post mortem, beyond a few whispered apologies and "oops" from a handful of public figures.


Impossible convo you're attempting.

Takes 2 Kath.
I know some folks who cannot bring themselves to even consider seriously the idea that vaccines might not be as safe & effective as advertised. that they all are generally VITAL and good.
It's beyond proof in their minds. It's a fact like the sun rising.
But still, FJ already said that the Japanese study says "maybe" there's a problem, however seems clear he's not really taking the evidence at this point seriously in that he tried to find ever viable reason why the study may be flawed. He suggested covid itself as the cause & lack of cancer care as the cause. Then after exhausting those he grabbed on to "maybe" and is content to live in the possibility that something else IS the cause... anything but the vaccine?
And asserts I and oncologist are somehow recklessly jumping the gun.
But the question that started this line of conversation was,
"WITH THE EVIDENCE ON HAND TODAY", what does he think is the cause?
1st He basically denied there's ANY evidence, "just" some "correlation", then he fell back to "maybe" in the study but still holds to ignorance and won't point to any possible or likely cause..
Seems there's might be some bias there Kath. Am I way out in left field here?
No one says that more study shouldn't be done. I think FAR more needs to be done. I suspect many people don't want to "waste the time" because they already know that the vaccines are good and "anti-vaxxers!" might get traction. Plus no one they know had a problem.
Rather than being more concerned about people getting cancer.

Look, There's no doubt I have bias, many. I'm well aware of it. And I literally have to check myself.
Some of us can admit our own. And frankly I appreciate HONEST, factual push back, since I don't like being wrong.
But sometimes it seems others act as if they have no biases. I'm not sure if they are trying to gaslight others or themselves.

I make a note to you today, that if I see evidence that there SOMETHING ELSE that's the MORE likely the cause of the known uptick in cancers in Japan & elsewhere I'll post it here.
In fact here's a straw for FJ to grasps.
it's now known that LACK of sunlight allows more disease of all kinds diseases, including cancers, to proliferate. the lockdown forced people in inside world wide.
So "MAYBE" that's a factor. It should be studied. But right now there's NO evidence of ANYTHING, since correlation is not causation:rolleyes:

[Kathianne]

So your answer to the questions is, yes.
& Gunny you seem to have said that you've already decided to get the next vaccine the govt spits out and not worry about any consequences for yourself or anyone else.
ok, no worries, all the best to you. I hope that works out.

But, if you Kath & FJ don't mind i'll keep talking about it.
I'm not forcing anyone to read my post, much less respond. enjoy your medications.
move on.


thing is Kath, it's not personal.
I only replied to your personal situation when you bring it up.
The study from the Japan doesn't address you or gunny's personal thoughts or actions. neither does the UK oncologist's.
They are pointing out facts for everyone today, based on actions taken BY THE GOVT & BIG PHARMA in 2019-2020... no matter what your personal POV was in 2020.
You did not censor or close schools or biz or fire people or coerce others to take experimental drugs.
But I do think it's wise to LEARN from the govts pass mistakes. rather than giving them a pass. Personal correction and insight is great but letting the govt know that this kind of action will not be toltarated in the future for you kids and grandkids might be something others want to point out from time to time.

Rather than just walking away from the biggest govt & medical disruption of American life in the past 100 years as if it was a little hickup.
that doesn't even really need an official post mortem, beyond a few whispered apologies and "oops" from a handful of public figures.



Takes 2 Kath.
I know some folks who cannot bring themselves to even consider seriously the idea that vaccines might not be as safe & effective as advertised. that they all are generally VITAL and good.
It's beyond proof in their minds. It's a fact like the sun rising.
But still, FJ already said that the Japanese study says "maybe" there's a problem, however seems clear he's not really taking the evidence at this point seriously in that he tried to find ever viable reason why the study may be flawed. He suggested covid itself as the cause & lack of cancer care as the cause. Then after exhausting those he grabbed on to "maybe" and is content to live in the possibility that something else IS the cause... anything but the vaccine?
And asserts I and oncologist are somehow recklessly jumping the gun.
But the question that started this line of conversation was,
"WITH THE EVIDENCE ON HAND TODAY", what does he think is the cause?
1st He basically denied there's ANY evidence, "just" some "correlation", then he fell back to "maybe" in the study but still holds to ignorance and won't point to any possible or likely cause..
Seems there's might be some bias there Kath. Am I way out in left field here?
No one says that more study shouldn't be done. I think FAR more needs to be done. I suspect many people don't want to "waste the time" because they already know that the vaccines are good and "anti-vaxxers!" might get traction. Plus no one they know had a problem.
Rather than being more concerned about people getting cancer.

Look, There's no doubt I have bias, many. I'm well aware of it. And I literally have to check myself.
Some of us can admit our own. And frankly I appreciate HONEST, factual push back, since I don't like being wrong.
But sometimes it seems others act as if they have no biases. I'm not sure if they are trying to gaslight others or themselves.

I make a note to you today, that if I see evidence that there SOMETHING ELSE that's the MORE likely the cause of the known uptick in cancers in Japan & elsewhere I'll post it here.
In fact here's a straw for FJ to grasps.
it's now known that LACK of sunlight allows more disease of all kinds diseases, including cancers, to proliferate. the lockdown forced people in inside world wide.
So "MAYBE" that's a factor. It should be studied. But right now there's NO evidence of ANYTHING, since correlation is not causation:rolleyes:

I am not of the mindset that every vax is something that everyone should get and even with Covid, I waited some time before getting; long enough that I didn't think my grandchildren or even children should get it, as they are all healthy and under 45. I chose for myself, with the limited info available, BECAUSE I had more than a few of the high risk factors. Not everyone who isn't anti-vax is an idiot.

I do think the freaking government and Pharmas have screwed things up for a long, long time. Feel free to keep making noise to have folks not vaccinate their kids from highly contagious and high risk childhood illnesses, might actually work out in a Darwinian way.

[revelarts]

I am not of the mindset that every vax is something that everyone should get and even with Covid, I waited some time before getting; long enough that I didn't think my grandchildren or even children should get it, as they are all healthy and under 45. I chose for myself, with the limited info available, BECAUSE I had more than a few of the high risk factors.

Not everyone who isn't anti-vax is an idiot.
Never said they were.




I do think the freaking government and Pharmas have screwed things up for a long, long time.


Feel free to keep making noise to have folks not vaccinate their kids from highly contagious and high risk childhood illnesses, might actually work out in a Darwinian way.
Yes, it might.

[fj1200]

But still, FJ already said that the Japanese study says "maybe" there's a problem, however seems clear he's not really taking the evidence at this point seriously in that he tried to find ever viable reason why the study may be flawed. He suggested covid itself as the cause & lack of cancer care as the cause. Then after exhausting those he grabbed on to "maybe" and is content to live in the possibility that something else IS the cause... anything but the vaccine?
And asserts I and oncologist are somehow recklessly jumping the gun.
But the question that started this line of conversation was,
"WITH THE EVIDENCE ON HAND TODAY", what does he think is the cause?
1st He basically denied there's ANY evidence, "just" some "correlation", then he fell back to "maybe" in the study but still holds to ignorance and won't point to any possible or likely cause..

For F*s sake. If you can't comprehend what I'm saying then don't try to sum up my words to someone else. I have merely quoted the exact words that they used indicating that they do not know the cause but will be investigated further. Reread that last sentence over and over until it clicks in your head.

[fj1200]

Impossible convo you're attempting.

I thought I was using basic words understandable to grown adults. Maybe I need to wrap it up in a reactionary youtube video. :(

[revelarts]

Revelarts: "He suggested covid itself as the cause & lack of cancer care as the cause."

...Ask yourself the likelihood of the results after 2 years of reduced care due to lockdowns or due to the vaccine with less time to act? And if the vaccination rate didn't exceed 80% of the Japanese population then I'd say you have a built in control group. Nevertheless will you update the results if it becomes likely the former or only if it becomes likely the latter?

...The link you posted essentially said nothing so therefore nothing can be derived from it. ....


Revelarts: "Then after exhausting those he grabbed on to "maybe" and is content to live in the possibility that something else IS the cause... anything but the vaccine?..."

...and I also don't over interpret studies or hang my hat on "... may be..."

The evidence doesn't say anything now other than correlation and correlating to multiple possibilities, some stated and some not....


"... cancers may be attributable ...
... It might be attributable to that and it also might not be. Nothing I said was incorrect no matter how much you misread it and misinterpret it. It's not worth going more into depth because it would just be what-ifs and you are looking for one thing to the exclusion of anything else.

Revelarts: "...but still holds to ignorance and won't point to any possible or likely cause.."
"...anything but the vaccine?" (please note the question mark)

So I guess for clarity I should add
Fj says he's not prepared to go into "what ifs" because of what I'M LOOKING FOR... supposedly "to the exclusion of anything else".

I'm looking for valid answers to why the uptick in cancers, heart problems, autoimmune problems, etc. & it appears to me AT THIS POINT that the vaccines are the most likely cause.
I think, at this point, that the govts & big pharma Pissed Poison on all of us and want us all to call it Rain. Helpful Harmless Rain.
The numbers from various studies and the experience of oncologist, doctors, nurses, researchers, insurance actuarial tables, and coroners point to poison piss vaxs as the most likely cause.

Others may feel the need to wait until MORE studies are done.
Fine, Let's all call for more studies.
Also maybe we can all honestly review the info that's already on the table too.
And not pretend that they say "NOTHING".
(which is my main beef with your replies and why i've wanted to let this go but have not.)
unless I've miss understood the meaning of the word "nothing".

[fj1200]

Others may feel the need to wait until MORE studies are done.
Fine, Let's all call for more studies.

Again, you overstate what this thing was. It was a statistical analysis that drew correlations. Causation is derived by controlling for multiple factors which is what I'm sure that they will be doing. Just because you want it to say something does not make it so.

I can't state it more simply. Perhaps if you didn't create my positions for me this wouldn't be so hard.

[revelarts]

Others may feel the need to wait until MORE studies are done.
Fine, Let's all call for more studies.Again, you overstate what this thing was. It was a statistical analysis that drew correlations.
... Just because you want it to say something does not make it so.

I can't state it more simply. Perhaps if you didn't create my positions for me this wouldn't be so hard.
"...Abstract
During the COVID-19 pandemic, excess deaths including cancer have become a concern in Japan, which has a rapidly aging population. Thus, this study aimed to evaluate how age-adjusted mortality rates (AMRs) for different types of cancer in Japan changed during the COVID-19 pandemic (2020-2022)....this study discusses possible explanations for these increases in age-adjusted cancer mortality rates...."
https://www.cureus.com/articles/196275-increased-age-adjusted-cancer-mortality-after-the-third-mrna-lipid-nanoparticle-vaccine-dose-during-the-covid-19-pandemic-in-japan#!/"

Just because you say I've overstated something doesn't mean i have.
Just because you say it's not a study, just a statistical analysis, doesn't mean it isn't a study.
Just because you want to minimize the work & the natural conclusions in any way possible doesn't mean we should.

I can't state it more simply.
Perhaps if you didn't try so hard to find a loophole in and minimize whatever comment/information I post this wouldn't be so hard.


Others may feel the need to wait until MORE studies are done.
Fine, Let's all call for more studies.

[Gunny]

"...Abstract
During the COVID-19 pandemic, excess deaths including cancer have become a concern in Japan, which has a rapidly aging population. Thus, this study aimed to evaluate how age-adjusted mortality rates (AMRs) for different types of cancer in Japan changed during the COVID-19 pandemic (2020-2022)....this study discusses possible explanations for these increases in age-adjusted cancer mortality rates...."
https://www.cureus.com/articles/196275-increased-age-adjusted-cancer-mortality-after-the-third-mrna-lipid-nanoparticle-vaccine-dose-during-the-covid-19-pandemic-in-japan#!/"

Just because you say I've overstated something doesn't mean i have.
Just because you say it's not a study, just a statistical analysis, doesn't mean it isn't a study.
Just because you want to minimize the work & the natural conclusions in any way possible doesn't mean we should.

I can't state it more simply.
Perhaps if you didn't try so hard to find a loophole in and minimize whatever comment/information I post this wouldn't be so hard.


Others may feel the need to wait until MORE studies are done.
Fine, Let's all call for more studies.

Let's don't. Most are S-O-O-O over this. With the exception of those who refuse to accept that their is no basis to their fear without manipulating fact and presenting exception as rule.

[fj1200]

"...Abstract
During the COVID-19 pandemic, excess deaths including cancer have become a concern in Japan, which has a rapidly aging population. Thus, this study aimed to evaluate how age-adjusted mortality rates (AMRs) for different types of cancer in Japan changed during the COVID-19 pandemic (2020-2022)....this study discusses possible explanations for these increases in age-adjusted cancer mortality rates...."
https://www.cureus.com/articles/196275-increased-age-adjusted-cancer-mortality-after-the-third-mrna-lipid-nanoparticle-vaccine-dose-during-the-covid-19-pandemic-in-japan#!/"

Just because you say I've overstated something doesn't mean i have.
Just because you say it's not a study, just a statistical analysis, doesn't mean it isn't a study.
Just because you want to minimize the work & the natural conclusions in any way possible doesn't mean we should.

I can't state it more simply.
Perhaps if you didn't try so hard to find a loophole in and minimize whatever comment/information I post this wouldn't be so hard.


Others may feel the need to wait until MORE studies are done.
Fine, Let's all call for more studies.

You keep quoting the parts that are the exact point I'm making. Thanks.

Did it state conclusively that the vaccine is THE cause of the increase in cancer in Japan?

[revelarts]

You...
I'll answer your question but 1st.
Just to be clear.

You do acknowledge it is A STUDY?

[revelarts]

Let's don't. Most are S-O-O-O over this. With the exception of those who refuse to accept that their is no basis to their fear without manipulating fact and presenting exception as rule.

Most are?
C'mon Gunny, when did you or I become the voice of "most" people? :laugh:

[SassyLady]

Most are?
C'mon Gunny, when did you or I become the voice of "most" people? :laugh:

Because 3 out 5 people on this board don't accept the covid vaccine caused injuries tmmust correlate to "most people". Duh Rev!

[Black Diamond]

Because 3 out 5 people on this board don't accept the covid vaccine caused injuries tmmust correlate to "most people". Duh Rev!

Check your math :cool :

[Kathianne]

Because 3 out 5 people on this board don't accept the covid vaccine caused injuries tmmust correlate to "most people". Duh Rev!

Who? I know that people, especially young people were hurt from covid vaccine. I doubt there is anyone here denying that.

[Gunny]

Most are?
C'mon Gunny, when did you or I become the voice of "most" people? :laugh:Opinion based on the obvious - observation.

[Gunny]

Because 3 out 5 people on this board don't accept the covid vaccine caused injuries tmmust correlate to "most people". Duh Rev!

It has become obvious to me that you having to be right about your crackpot theories is more important to you than acquaintance/friendship/whatever you want to call message board interpersonal relationships. Your fear of being wrong does not make you right but it has turned you into a dick.

[revelarts]

Opinion based on the obvious - observation.
But Gunny, Fj has told us all that conclusions based on obvious observations means "nothing".
So we're both outta luck here.

[fj1200]

I'll answer your question but 1st.
Just to be clear.

You do acknowledge it is A STUDY?

They used the word study so it must be a study.


But Gunny, Fj has told us all that conclusions based on obvious observations means "nothing".
So we're both outta luck here.

Given your track record on telling everyone what I say...

[revelarts]

You keep quoting the parts that are the exact point I'm making. Thanks.

Did it state conclusively that the vaccine is THE cause of the increase in cancer in Japan?

Revelarts
"Just because you want to minimize the work & the natural conclusions in any way possible doesn't mean we should."
"I'm looking for valid answers to why the uptick in cancers, heart problems, autoimmune problems, etc. & it appears to me AT THIS POINT that the vaccines are the most likely cause.
I think, at this point, that the govts & big pharma Pissed Poison on all of us and want us all to call it Rain. Helpful Harmless Rain.
The numbers from various studies and the experience of oncologist, doctors, nurses, researchers, insurance actuarial tables, and coroners point to poison piss vaxs as the most likely cause.

Others may feel the need to wait until MORE studies are done.
Fine, Let's all call for more studies."

Conclusions
Statistically significant increases in age-adjusted mortality rates of all cancer and some specific types of cancer, namely, ovarian cancer, leukemia, prostate, lip/oral/pharyngeal, pancreatic, and breast cancers, were observed in 2022 after two-thirds of the Japanese population had received the third or later dose of SARS-CoV-2 mRNA-LNP vaccine. These particularly marked increases in mortality rates of these ERα-sensitive cancers may be attributable to several mechanisms of the mRNA-LNP vaccination rather than COVID-19 infection itself or reduced cancer care due to the lockdown. The significance of this possibility warrants further studies. ....


Many Oncologist & researchers think this study simply adds to what they've already seen. And assume the natural inference.

YOU may think more needs studies need to be done to draw than same conclusion. OK, wonderful. But this one does POINT in the direction of the vaxs.
Others that know more about it than both of us have come that conclusion based on the evidence so far.

BTW It took quite some time before the official studies managed to conclude that smoking was a cause of cancer.
While some Doctors & researchers took the WILD leap based on the evidence they had on hand years before.

[fj1200]

Revelarts
"Just because you want to minimize the work & the natural conclusions in any way possible doesn't mean we should."
"I'm looking for valid answers to why the uptick in cancers, heart problems, autoimmune problems, etc. & it appears to me AT THIS POINT that the vaccines are the most likely cause.
I think, at this point, that the govts & big pharma Pissed Poison on all of us and want us all to call it Rain. Helpful Harmless Rain.
The numbers from various studies and the experience of oncologist, doctors, nurses, researchers, insurance actuarial tables, and coroners point to poison piss vaxs as the most likely cause.

Others may feel the need to wait until MORE studies are done.
Fine, Let's all call for more studies."
Conclusions
Statistically significant increases in age-adjusted mortality rates of all cancer and some specific types of cancer, namely, ovarian cancer, leukemia, prostate, lip/oral/pharyngeal, pancreatic, and breast cancers, were observed in 2022 after two-thirds of the Japanese population had received the third or later dose of SARS-CoV-2 mRNA-LNP vaccine. These particularly marked increases in mortality rates of these ERα-sensitive cancers may be attributable to several mechanisms of the mRNA-LNP vaccination rather than COVID-19 infection itself or reduced cancer care due to the lockdown. The significance of this possibility warrants further studies. ....


Many Oncologist & researchers think this study simply adds to what they've already seen. And assume the natural inference.

YOU may think more needs studies need to be done to draw than same conclusion. OK, wonderful. But this one does POINT in the direction of the vaxs.
Others that know more about it than both of us have come that conclusion based on the evidence so far.

BTW It took quite some time before the official studies managed to conclude that smoking was a cause of cancer.
While some Doctors & researchers took the WILD leap based on the evidence they had on hand years before.

That was a lot of words that added up to, no, they don't show it, or any of the reasons that they list for that matter, to be THE cause. I know what you think it says, I know what you want it to say, and I also know what it does say. That was my point from post 1 but you kept trying to summarize me to me and nobody does that better than me. :)

[revelarts]

That was a lot of words that added up to, no, they don't show it, or any of the reasons that they list for that matter, to be THE cause. I know what you think it says, I know what you want it to say, and I also know what it does say. That was my point from post 1 but you kept trying to summarize me to me and nobody does that better than me. :)

I know you said it was "nothing" when it is something.
I know you said it wasn't a study when it is a study.
I know you did speculate another cause as more likely until you read it further.
I know that now you don't even want to venture into a "what if" speculations of the more likely cause, because, you said, you're leery of what you think I believe.
Based on all that, I know you've been trying to minimize, dismiss, deflect & avoid the conclusions the info points toward.

Also, I know I'm done replying, at this point.

[fj1200]

I know you said it was "nothing" when it is something.
I know you said it wasn't a study when it is a study.
I know you did speculate another cause as more likely until you read it further.
I know that now you don't even want to venture into a "what if" speculations of the more likely cause, because, you said, you're leery of what you think I believe.
Based on all that, I know you've been trying to minimize, dismiss, deflect & avoid the conclusions the info points toward.

Also, I know I'm done replying, at this point.

Whatever. It's nothing because it isn't what you've made it. It wasn't a study because it wasn't a scientific study. You will make it whatever you want it to be because you need it be. I don't need it to be anything other than what it is.

You're done because the answer to the question I asked was, no. It doesn't show the vaccine to be THE cause. That's what I know.

[SassyLady]

Check your math :cool :

:clap:

[Gunny]

But Gunny, Fj has told us all that conclusions based on obvious observations means "nothing".
So we're both outta luck here.You have made it clear in the past that only your perception/observation/experience counts. Hard to refute anything coming from a mindset like that.

When the people you are supposed to rely on for information have an agenda, on EITHER side of the same coin, observations is the only thing there is and that I trust.

You know what the difference to me is between fanatics wailing and gnashing teeth and swearing the sky is falling and that the vaccine will kill me and fanatics wailing and gnashing teeth and swearing the sky is falling and I'm going to die and kill everyone around me if I don't get vaccinated?

Nothing.

[revelarts]

You have made it clear in the past that only your perception/observation/experience counts. Hard to refute anything coming from a mindset like that.
When the people you are supposed to rely on for information have an agenda, on EITHER side of the same coin, observations is the only thing there is and that I trust.
You know what the difference to me is between fanatics wailing and gnashing teeth and swearing the sky is falling and that the vaccine will kill me and fanatics wailing and gnashing teeth and swearing the sky is falling and I'm going to die and kill everyone around me if I don't get vaccinated?
Nothing.

So only your perception/observation/experience counts Gunny?
I mean lets be real, you've got very definitive opinions about reality and often you don't even feel the need to back them up with much, except by your own personal experience/history and observations.

Which is fine by me, but cmon man, Pot talking to Kettle here Gunny.

[Gunny]

So only your perception/observation/experience counts Gunny?
I mean lets be real, you've got very definitive opinions about reality and often you don't even feel the need to back them up with much, except by your own personal experience/history and observations.

Which is fine by me, but cmon man, Pot talking to Kettle here Gunny.

Back them up with what? Other people's opinions? I learned long ago from experience that when I let others make my decisions for me I usually regretted it. Conversely, if I make the decision and am wrong, I can live being wrong and adjust accordingly.

No individual, personal offense intended, but have you looked around you lately? Yes, I trust my judgement based on experience/first hand knowledge over some talking head's opinion.

[Gunny]

BTW ...

I research any and everything if I even think I have a question. I've posted more than a few links that you don't bother addressing because you don't bother reading them, as evidenced by your following posts :poke:. So it is not that the effort and research is not there. I do not feel the need to provide links to the obvious.

Then there's the part where I will not engage in a battle of links. That's mindless crap. I will used links to support my opinion/statement, if necessary. Again, I feel no need to link to the obvious.

Such as: hospitals are not teeming with people suffering adverse reactions to a vaccine; whereas; hospitals were over-filled by people suffering or dying from the virus. There's no genius math required there.

[Black Diamond]

Back them up with what? Other people's opinions? I learned long ago from experience that when I let others make my decisions for me I usually regretted it. Conversely, if I make the decision and am wrong, I can live being wrong and adjust accordingly.

No individual, personal offense intended, but have you looked around you lately? Yes, I trust my judgement based on experience/first hand knowledge over some talking head's opinion.

Well many people trusted fauci.

[Black Diamond]

BTW ...

I research any and everything if I even think I have a question. I've posted more than a few links that you don't bother addressing because you don't bother reading them, as evidenced by your following posts :poke:. So it is not that the effort and research is not there. I do not feel the need to provide links to the obvious.

Then there's the part where I will not engage in a battle of links. That's mindless crap. I will used links to support my opinion/statement, if necessary. Again, I feel no need to link to the obvious.

Such as: hospitals are not teeming with people suffering adverse reactions to a vaccine; whereas; hospitals were over-filled by people suffering or dying from the virus. There's no genius math required there.

*officially *. You're correct

[revelarts]

*officially *. You're correct

only hospitals overwhelmed were mainly in the New York area.
In many of the rest were empty & the nurses were filming dance routines.

[Kathianne]

only hospitals overwhelmed were mainly in the New York area.
In many of the rest were empty & the nurses were filming dance routines.
Overwhelmed NYC, due to Cuomo's putting most vulnerable all together. The vaccines harm for the most part has been at the young, that should not have taken the vaccine in the first place. Of course, they had no choice-if they wanted to attend school in person; play sports-whether scholastic or travelling; etc.

I can understand, with the lack of testing and knowledge, initially making such a mistake, but not when the data started appearing and the government stomped it immediately, yet the repeating problems did seep through. The government kept doubling down on requiring and keeping kids in virtual schools.

It became very apparent, within months of rollout, that the whole idea of 'quarantine-like' existence, along with vaccine should have been aimed at the vulnerable groups-those with chronic illnesses, the elderly, and those with compromised immune systems. Everyone else could have moved along, perhaps with flu like symptoms for the most part. Yes, some would have died if they did just 'move along' whether more or less than those that died only from vaccine is questionable.

Truly the number with serious problems from vaccine are very small in number from what I can shush out now-but there are serious repercussions to those with reactions, including death.

Then again, there were some who didn't take the vaccine, that would have been considered 'not at serious risk' that also died from covid.

[Gunny]

Well many people trusted fauci.


*officially *. You're correctNot sure what to say about people who trusted a lifetime government stooge and front man. That low-level bureaucrat had just enough power and lack of oversight to be dangerous.

Again, I educated myself and stayed as up to date as I could and made my decisions for me based on circumstance. For educated people who just wished to be educated further on current topic to make the best decision for themselves and their families all we could get was "it'll kill you" from the two extremes. Both sides selling bullshit to push their fanatical fears onto everyone else when all anyone really needed was facts. The latter being the last thing anyone got, if we ever get them at all. The extremists made such a big bunch of shit about it that covering one's ass became more important than the anyone's health.

The extremists on either side don't give a shit about anyone dying. They just have to be right.

Not to mention, it's over. I'm not dead and currently more concerned with my bench press :)

[Black Diamond]

There *were *jam packed hospitals across the country. I know people who were on the front lines as it were. But i believe there are deaths and health problems caused by covid vaccines and i think the ratio is higher than measles, polio and baby shots.

I understand vaccines are a tradeoff and not a solution. Thomas Sowell made a video saying that years before covid. The problem was for some, if you even asked questions you were put in the Oliver stone bin. And Biden attempting to make it an osha violation to be unvaccinated divided the country, as did media personalities who wanted the unvaccinated dead

[Gunny]

There *were *jam packed hospitals across the country. I know people who were on the front lines as it were. But i believe there are deaths and health problems caused by covid vaccines and i think the ratio is higher than measles, polio and baby shots.

I understand vaccines are a tradeoff and not a solution. Thomas Sowell made a video saying that years before covid. The problem was for some, if you even asked questions you were put in the Oliver stone bin. And Biden attempting to make it an osha violation to be unvaccinated divided the country, as did media personalities who wanted the unvaccinated dead

I am sure there are adverse reactions to the covid vaccine as with any other. I don't know one way or the other whether or they are higher. Again, I doubt we ever will. Once it became political, nobody was going to be wrong. Not on the scale of a pandemic.

I didn't agree with Biden's failed policy (one of many) the MSM was more than happy to ram home and give voice to idiots wishing others dead and stated so mor than twice. So have others. Got no problem with questions either. In case anyone's missed it, I question the government for breathing.

The extremism and beating a long dead horse is what pisses me off. That's different than discussing. There's no discussion with extremists. There's preaching, propaganda and anybody that disagrees is stupid and going to die. Keep disagreeing and morphs into thinly veiled insults/snide remarks at every turn. I don't recall anyone on this board telling anyone else to get vaccinated, that they would die if they didn't. Had they, I've got a strong opinion for that bullshit too.

Extremism turned the whole pandemic into the FUBAR clusterf*ck it has become and ensured none of us will ever know the real facts which would be nice.

[fj1200]

There *were *jam packed hospitals across the country. I know people who were on the front lines as it were. But i believe there are deaths and health problems caused by covid vaccines and i think the ratio is higher than measles, polio and baby shots.

I understand vaccines are a tradeoff and not a solution. Thomas Sowell made a video saying that years before covid. The problem was for some, if you even asked questions you were put in the Oliver stone bin. And Biden attempting to make it an osha violation to be unvaccinated divided the country, as did media personalities who wanted the unvaccinated dead

That is the truest thing that could be said. Both sides overplaying hands but worse on the government side because they have the power of force. But hopefully some level headed research will be done.

[revelarts]

That is the truest thing that could be said. Both sides overplaying hands but worse on the government side because they have the power of force. But hopefully some level headed research will be done.

The government side was worse...
That's an extremely understated way to put it but, yes.
They were horrific, oppressive and unconstitutional. .. but dont get me started.
And it's not over, the WHO and globalist in congress are working on U.S. gov't granting control of emergency medical powers over to the WHO... for next time.
"let no crisis go to waste"

[SassyLady]

The government side was worse...
That's an extremely understated way to put it but, yes.
They were horrific, oppressive and unconstitutional. .. but dont get me started.
And it's not over, the WHO and globalist in congress are working on U.S. gov't granting control of emergency medical powers over to the WHO... for next time.
"let no crisis go to waste"
UK voted no.

[fj1200]

The government side was worse...
That's an extremely understated way to put it but, yes.
They were horrific, oppressive and unconstitutional. .. but dont get me started.
And it's not over, the WHO and globalist in congress are working on U.S. gov't granting control of emergency medical powers over to the WHO... for next time.
"let no crisis go to waste"

I understated. You overstated. Both in typical fashion. :cheers2:

[revelarts]

overstated?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GNPnIXYXkAA6bxt?format=jpg&name=small

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GNPle-hXIAAitjT?format=jpg&name=small

[fj1200]

:rolleyes:

[Kathianne]

I am reminded of the post of 'hospitals overwhelmed with Covid deaths-NYC' and 'no hospitals overwhelmed-in NYC or anywhere else' with covid vaccine victims. Deaths? Yes, I've mentioned heart issues and blood clots also known, more than 3 times. 'Long covid?' we'll see how that all turns out, just not the data yet.

Real issues, but just not the one sided disaster some are pining for.

[revelarts]

Gov't LIED or made some incautious statements.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GNPrI_mW0AAJsgm?format=jpg&name=small

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GNPlkc-XgAA-iCs?format=jpg&name=small
"Wen was asked to testify four times to Congress during the COVID-19 pandemic,
including twice to the Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Crisis."

I'll add this. concerning "extremism"
Maybe, probably, nothing the gov't, MSM and the rest of the world did seemed extreme at all.
At least to those who had "essential", stay at home work, were retired, & generally complied with everything the gov't "suggested".
But for those of us who did not comply it seemed crazy.
Personally I was in danger of losing my job if the governor hadn't declared my job "essential".
My daughter almost had to leave her college over this crap.
I got yipped at in stores and my bank by randos and security guards for not wearing a mask.
So I Dodged the major Bullets. Unliked many others.
So sorry I'm not forgetting how bad it was
And i'm not pretending that my & others folks just Talking about Alternatives meds, Joe Rogan, and calling the vaccine "experimental" & dangerous was "too extreme"!
or "overplayed".
or the same level of disinfo. what crock.
That squirt gun was too EXTREME... oh my! Compared to the Dresden style bombings of lies from the gov't big pharma.