Economic Analysts: Mich. Faces Worst Economic Depression Of Decade

[stephanie]

Vote Democrat......this is what you get...:clap:

DETROIT -- Economic experts said Michigan is going through the worst depression of the decade.

Michigan's unemployment rate increased to 7.7 percent in October, the highest rate since late 1992, and 43,000 jobs have been lost in the process.

Michigan has had the nation's highest seasonally adjusted unemployment rate for several months.


The state's September jobless rate was 7.5 percent. The rate in October 2006 was 7.1 percent.

The state’s Labor and Economic Growth Agency reported that Detroit, Warren and the Livonia area scored an 8 percent jobless rate, up from 7.9 percent last month.

State officials said the higher jobless rate this month reflects short-term layoffs in the auto industry.

Chrysler slashed another 10,000 blue-collar jobs last month; many of those jobs were based in Michigan.

General Motors laid off 3,000 white-collar and contract jobs by reducing the numbers of shifts in the plants.

The level of manufacturing jobs in the state last month was the lowest recorded all year.

Although the auto industry lay-offs are at the heart of the problem, there are also major problems in the retail and construction industries.

In addition, Detroit has the highest foreclosure rates among the country's 100 largest metropolitan areas in the third quarter this year.

The national unemployment rate in October was 4.7 percent.
http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/14606964/detail.html

[diuretic]

Why are the Democrats to blame? I'd be looking at the incompetence of management of auto industry companies for economic problems in Michigan.

[stephanie]

Why are the Democrats to blame? I'd be looking at the incompetence of management of auto industry companies for economic problems in Michigan.

Dig deep...see who has been running the government of Michigan and who has imposed all the taxes and regulations...

Taxes and regulations is what will strangle any business out of the state...Why should they stay???

[red states rule]

Why are the Democrats to blame? I'd be looking at the incompetence of management of auto industry companies for economic problems in Michigan.

Try the union thugs that have ran the auto companies into the ground

[diuretic]

Dig deep...see who has been running the government of Michigan and who has imposed all the taxes and regulations...

Taxes and regulations is what will strangle any business out of the state...Why should they stay???

Nope - it's more than that Stephanie. I do remember a couple of years ago reading an interesting article in Time magazine that attacked the bidding war by the various states to lower taxes and give other incentives to businesses to set up in one state rather than the others and how stupid that was (we've done that here for many years, we're still not convinced we're a real country rather than a bunch of states fighting with each other).

I think the problem in Michigan is spelled - T-O-Y-O-T-A. That's my way of saying that the US auto industry hasn't kept up. I know BMW has a few issues with their Hydrogen concept vehicle but - I ask rhetorically - is the US auto industry there yet?

Get ready for more bad economic news. We're getting it too but we (Oz) are a tiny economy. We may be nimble enough to get through what's coming (although with the current leadership we don't have a chance so they have to go next week at the election). I'm put in mind of the fall of the dinosaurs and the rise of those nimble little tackers called mammals that, well, are still around today and doing okay (but will be done in by global climate change).

Did I get enough hobby horses in there? :laugh2:

[red states rule]

Nope - it's more than that Stephanie. I do remember a couple of years ago reading an interesting article in Time magazine that attacked the bidding war by the various states to lower taxes and give other incentives to businesses to set up in one state rather than the others and how stupid that was (we've done that here for many years, we're still not convinced we're a real country rather than a bunch of states fighting with each other).

I think the problem in Michigan is spelled - T-O-Y-O-T-A. That's my way of saying that the US auto industry hasn't kept up. I know BMW has a few issues with their Hydrogen concept vehicle but - I ask rhetorically - is the US auto industry there yet?

Get ready for more bad economic news. We're getting it too but we (Oz) are a tiny economy. We may be nimble enough to get through what's coming (although with the current leadership we don't have a chance so they have to go next week at the election). I'm put in mind of the fall of the dinosaurs and the rise of those nimble little tackers called mammals that, well, are still around today and doing okay (but will be done in by global climate change).

Did I get enough hobby horses in there? :laugh2:

If cutting taxes is so bad, why is the amount of tax money flowing into DC is at record highs - and going up?

If the union thugs would have put out a quality product they would not have to worry about Toyota

[diuretic]

If cutting taxes is so bad, why is the amount of tax money flowing into DC is at record highs - and going up?

If the union thugs would have put out a quality product they would not have to worry about Toyota

Can't answer your question about taxes going into DC.

You have union thugs because you have thug bosses. And the UAW were thuggish at one time, they monstered the (now) CAW - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Auto_Workers - I saw the documentary featuring Bob White when I was on a national union leaders course here in Oz. A vicious labour/labor relations system will do that, force up tough, uncompromising and hard union leaders to deal with their mirror opposites in management in a labour/labor relations system that resembles the jungle at its worst.

[red states rule]

Can't answer your question about taxes going into DC.

You have union thugs because you have thug bosses. And the UAW were thuggish at one time, they monstered the (now) CAW - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Auto_Workers - I saw the documentary featuring Bob White when I was on a national union leaders course here in Oz. A vicious labour/labor relations system will do that, force up tough, uncompromising and hard union leaders to deal with their mirror opposites in management in a labour/labor relations system that resembles the jungle at its worst.

DC is run by Dems who live to raise taxes no matter what the current economic conditions are

Unions ran the auto comonaies into the ground now they are paying for it. Union membership in the US is in the single digits - while the economy is growing.

That should tell you something

[diuretic]

DC is run by Dems who live to raise taxes no matter what the current economic conditions are

Unions ran the auto comonaies into the ground now they are paying for it. Union membership in the US is in the single digits - while the economy is growing.

That should tell you something

The union movement in the US sealed its fate when it rejected social unionism in favour of the business unionism model. Gompers and Lewis saw to that. The US union movement could have been a force for positive social change but it was diverted. Heck we even had to send you Harry Bridges to guide the west coast longshoremen out of the desert. I'm sorry for the good union people in the US who deserve better but the disappearance of the movement is the natural outcome of their collective decision to reject social unionism. Their choice.

[red states rule]

The union movement in the US sealed its fate when it rejected social unionism in favour of the business unionism model. Gompers and Lewis saw to that. The US union movement could have been a force for positive social change but it was diverted. Heck we even had to send you Harry Bridges to guide the west coast longshoremen out of the desert. I'm sorry for the good union people in the US who deserve better but the disappearance of the movement is the natural outcome of their collective decision to reject social unionism. Their choice.

So the country rejected liberalism, and became the worlds economic and military superpower

The downside is?

[diuretic]

So the country rejected liberalism, and became the worlds economic and military superpower

The downside is?

Remember the British Empire?

[red states rule]

Remember the British Empire?

Yea, we kicked their ass in a war

[diuretic]

Yea, we kicked their ass in a war

:laugh2:

That wasn't a war, that was a "police action" :laugh2:

But your tactics were very good, I'll give you that. Just as well the Brits were a long way away (logistics of course) and the French were on your side. Anyway they were imperialist dogs so they deserved to lose :laugh2:

[red states rule]

:laugh2:

That wasn't a war, that was a "police action" :laugh2:

But your tactics were very good, I'll give you that. Just as well the Brits were a long way away (logistics of course) and the French were on your side. Anyway they were imperialist dogs so they deserved to lose :laugh2:

We started a war over high taxes - we may need another one :laugh2:

[diuretic]

We started a war over high taxes - we may need another one :laugh2:

Bloody imperialist bastards, sucking the lifeblood out of the young colony! Let 'em raise the taxes to fight their damn wars elsewhere! :laugh2:

[red states rule]

Bloody imperialist bastards, sucking the lifeblood out of the young colony! Let 'em raise the taxes to fight their damn wars elsewhere! :laugh2:

Anytme you guys feel froggy - just leap :lol:

[PostmodernProphet]

Why are the Democrats to blame? I'd be looking at the incompetence of management of auto industry companies for economic problems in Michigan.

the Democrats are to blame because of the incompetence of our Democratic governor......we have always had the auto industry, but when she was elected we ranked somewhere around 8th in the country economically......now we are 50th.....some places have trouble with factories moving south of the border to Mexico......we have that, plus factories moving south of the border to Indiana.....

[diuretic]

Anytme you guys feel froggy - just leap :lol:

lol - what it Napoleon said about the British? They don't have the imagination for a revolution? Same here. We'd like to mount a revolution during winter but it's too cold and anyway it's footy season; in summer, the season of fevered brows you'd think "revolucion!", nope, too hot and besides...it's cricket season :D

[PostmodernProphet]

To give you an example of our Democratic leader's policies....

the Republicans wanted to eliminate the business income tax to draw businesses into the state.....the cost $2 billion dollars.....she vetoed it, saying we couldn't afford it......the next DAY she announced her plan to create a $2 billion dollar fund to encourage businesses to come to Michigan......

[red states rule]

To give you an example of our Democratic leader's policies....

the Republicans wanted to eliminate the business income tax to draw businesses into the state.....the cost $2 billion dollars.....she vetoed it, saying we couldn't afford it......the next DAY she announced her plan to create a $2 billion dollar fund to encourage businesses to come to Michigan......they spent it all on about five companies that moved into the east side of the state.....in the meantime, 50 companies moved out......

How true

MoveOnOutofMichigan.org
High taxes lead businesses to flee the Wolverine State.

Friday, March 9, 2007 12:01 a.m. EST

Comerica Inc. was founded in 1849 in Detroit and the Detroit Tigers play in Comerica Park, but this week the bank holding company announced it is moving its headquarters to Dallas--where, it said, the bigger growth opportunities are. Consider it one more vote of confidence in the state the national expansion forgot, and especially in Michigan Governor Jennifer Granholm's economic agenda.

Re-elected last year, Ms. Granholm recently rewarded the voters by announcing some $1 billion in new fees and tax increases. The plan would charge Michigan residents higher levies for almost every activity inside the state with a moving part. She would tax trucking, shopping, smoking, hunting, fishing, drinking beer and liquor, using a cell phone and, yes, even dying.

Her plan does complete the phase-out of the state's hated "single business tax," which the Tax Foundation has called one of the most anti-growth business taxes in the nation. She should have stopped right there. Instead the Governor wants to create a new corporate income tax as well as a new 2% excise tax on upwards of 100 business services. The net effect would be to raise Michigan's overall business tax burden. She'd also impose a 5% death tax on estates valued at more than $2 million--which is a sure way to encourage even more Michigan retirees to relocate to Florida.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110009763

[diuretic]

the Democrats are to blame because of the incompetence of our Democratic governor......we have always had the auto industry, but when she was elected we ranked somewhere around 8th in the country economically......now we are 50th.....some places have trouble with factories moving south of the border to Mexico......we have that, plus factories moving south of the border to Indiana.....

Specifically, what did she do?

Then ask, what did the auto companies do? Who made Ford lose all that money?

No, I don't accept that excuse for one second. The incompetent executives of Ford and GM have to cop this one. I mean, did the Governor way back then invent the Edsel?

[red states rule]

Specifically, what did she do?

Then ask, what did the auto companies do? Who made Ford lose all that money?

No, I don't accept that excuse for one second. The incompetent executives of Ford and GM have to cop this one. I mean, did the Governor way back then invent the Edsel?

What did she do? Read post 20

Again, the unions are the ones who ran the auto industry into the ground.

[PostmodernProphet]

Specifically, what did she do?

Then ask, what did the auto companies do? Who made Ford lose all that money?

No, I don't accept that excuse for one second. The incompetent executives of Ford and GM have to cop this one. I mean, did the Governor way back then invent the Edsel?

the Michigan economy has been failing for several years, the auto industry only slowed down about a year ago.....the major employers we lost in our local community in the last five years included a coat hanger factory, a mattress factory, Life-Savers candy (moved to Canada where sugar is cheaper), office furniture, pharmaceuticals.....the only auto related company involved has announced it may leave, but hasn't yet....

fifteen years ago they built a new shopping mall in town....today, it is 70% vacant......

no, the auto industry has absolutely nothing to do with this issue.....

[PostmodernProphet]

the Single Business Tax.....where profit, the difference between receipts and expenses, is reported on a line labeled "excess income"......I kid you not.....

[diuretic]

What did she do? Read post 20

Again, the unions are the ones who ran the auto industry into the ground.

K sorry, missed it first time round.

[red states rule]

K sorry, missed it first time round.

No big deal my friend

Once in office she raped the taxpayers and corporations in her state. Now she has a hell of a mess on her hands

Libs will rant how it is not her fault - it's Bush's fault

[diuretic]

What did she do? Read post 20

Again, the unions are the ones who ran the auto industry into the ground.

Why would a union destroy an industry that means its members are unemployed and it loses members (income)? It doesn't make sense. The incompetence of corporate management is a better reason for the demise of a corporation.

[red states rule]

Why would a union destroy an industry that means its members are unemployed and it loses members (income)? It doesn't make sense. The incompetence of corporate management is the only reason for the demise of a corporation.

Ever increasing demands for higher wages, less cost to them for health care, and insane retirement benefits

No company can pay workers huge sums when they are no longer working for the company and contributing to the production

They think the auto companies have an endless supply of cash and will never run out

[glockmail]

....I do remember a couple of years ago reading an interesting article in Time magazine that attacked the bidding war by the various states to lower taxes and give other incentives to businesses to set up in one state rather than the others and how stupid that was (we've done that here for many years, we're still not convinced we're a real country rather than a bunch of states fighting with each other)....

We are a collection of states and they have to learn to compete against each other just like any other service. Citizens pay taxes/ fees and the State provides services. If you feel like you are getting gyp'd then move to another State. I did that three times before I found a place to raise my children. My parents were glad what I did and wish that they had the foresight to make that that type of move when they had the chance.

[red states rule]

We are a collection of states and they have to learn to compete against each other just like any other service. Citizens pay taxes/ fees and the State provides services. If you feel like you are getting gyp'd then move to another State. I did that three times before I found a place to raise my children. My parents were glad what I did and wish that they had the foresight to make that that type of move when they had the chance.

I had to move from my home state due to the insane taxes

Dems were elected in the last election and the passed a $1.2 billion tax increase last week

Now they want to raise the gas tax as well

I am glad I got the hell out of there

[glockmail]

I had to move from my home state due to the insane taxes

Dems were elected in the last election and the passed a $1.2 billion tax increase last week

Now they want to raise the gas tax as well

I am glad I got the hell out of there


Last time I moved I actually did a little study on the best place. My property taxes are 1/4 of what they were, the economy is smokin', high growth everywhere you look, wife and I both own our own businesses, kids are doing fantastic in school, we own a vacation home in addition to our McMansion, and ski every weekend during the 3-1/2 month winter! Life is not just good, its great.

Screw New York. Screw Massachusetts. Screw Connecticut.

SCREW THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS WHO RULE THE RUST BELT.

[red states rule]

Last time I moved I actually did a little study on the best place. My property taxes are 1/4 of what they were, the economy is smokin', high growth everywhere you look, wife and I both own our own businesses, kids are doing fantastic in school, we own a vacation home in addition to our McMansion, and ski every weekend during the 3-1/2 month winter! Life is not just good, its great.

Screw New York. Screw Massachusetts. Screw Connecticut.

SCREW THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS WHO RULE THE RUST BELT.

Ditto

I live in a quiet rural area. Taxes are not to bad dispite the fact libs are screaming to raise them

When you look at the big cities where Dems rule - they are shit holes.

[glockmail]

Ditto

I live in a quiet rural area. Taxes are not to bad dispite the fact libs are screaming to raise them

When you look at the big cities where Dems rule - they are shit holes.


Where I lived in NY upstate it was so quite you could hear the groundwater moving in the spring. There was also coyotes and deer and wild turkeys feeding in my 2-acre yard. I had a well, septic, no police or garbage pick-up, and my $100G house cost me $3200 in property taxes. Oh and the schools were rated near the bottom of the State. We moved before my oldest turned 5 and would have been interned in that system.

Here, I do hear the highway at night, its about a mile away, but my house is worth at least 4 times that and I pay less in taxes, including sewer and trash pickup. Its amazing what you can afford without the burden of those high taxes. Still no cops but the Sherrif has a detail for our town and the deputies are a great bunch of guys. I can pick any school in the county to send my kids too and both kids are kicking ass making A's and in school sports.

The nearest city is a Dem stronghold but the surrounding county is red as they come.

[red states rule]

Where I lived in NY upstate it was so quite you could hear the groundwater moving in the spring. There was also coyotes and deer and wild turkeys feeding in my 2-acre yard. I had a well, septic, no police or garbage pick-up, and my $100G house cost me $3200 in property taxes. Oh and the schools were rated near the bottom of the State. We moved before my oldest turned 5 and would have been interned in that system.

Here, I do hear the highway at night, its about a mile away, but my house is worth at least 4 times that and I pay less in taxes, including sewer and trash pickup. Its amazing what you can afford without the burden of those high taxes. Still no cops but the Sherrif has a detail for our town and the deputies are a great bunch of guys. I can pick any school in the county to send my kids too and both kids are kicking ass making A's and in school sports.

The nearest city is a Dem stronghold but the surrounding county is red as they come.



I am about 30 miles from Gettysburg and I finf it very quite. Even during the summer there is little increase traffic here

I could never live in a big city with the traffic, crowds, and taxes

[glockmail]

I am about 30 miles from Gettysburg and I finf it very quite. Even during the summer there is little increase traffic here

I could never live in a big city with the traffic, crowds, and taxes


We set our sights on a growing economy with a moderate sized metro area; no college town, no tourist town. I've lived in the sticks and it wasn't my cup of tea.

[red states rule]

We set our sights on a growing economy with a moderate sized metro area; no college town, no tourist town. I've lived in the sticks and it wasn't my cup of tea.

I am not in the sticks - Wal Mart is 4 miles away

Hey Glock it could be worse for you. MM could be your next door neighbor :lol:

[glockmail]

I am not in the sticks - Wal Mart is 4 miles away

Hey Glock it could be worse for you. MM could be your next door neighbor :lol:

I don't think there's a Wal-Mart more than 5 miles away from anybody.

HFM would not last 5 minutes in my 'hood. :boom2:

[red states rule]

I don't think there's a Wal-Mart more than 5 miles away from anybody.

HFM would not last 5 minutes in my 'hood. :boom2:

He could always poop scoop the hood for ya

[April15]

I don't think there's a Wal-Mart more than 5 miles away from anybody.

HFM would not last 5 minutes in my 'hood. :boom2:You would be wrong. Where I live we have pretty much banned them. The closest walmart is about 17 miles down the road. Even that is too close.

[red states rule]

You would be wrong. Where I live we have pretty much banned them. The closest walmart is about 17 miles down the road. Even that is too close.

It is your towns economic loss

Why libs have this rabid hate for Wal Mart, I will never understand

[April15]

It is your towns economic loss

Why libs have this rabid hate for Wal Mart, I will never understandNo economic loss. We have no costs associated with the employees of the store to subsidize. That is a plus in my book.

[red states rule]

No economic loss. We have no costs associated with the employees of the store to subsidize. That is a plus in my book.

You are losing out on the jobs, the money the employees would spend in your town, the taxes the employees and the store would pay, all the other stores that would open up around the Wal mart,a nd all those jobs

Libs are so blinded by their hate for Wal Mart, they can;t see how they are screwing themselves

[glockmail]

You would be wrong. Where I live we have pretty much banned them. The closest walmart is about 17 miles down the road. Even that is too close. So everyone drives 17 miles to shop, wasting gas and polluting the atmosphere with deadly greenhouse gasses.

[red states rule]

So everyone drives 17 miles to shop, wasting gas and polluting the atmosphere with deadly greenhouse gasses.

I hope they are driving SUV's

[April15]

So everyone drives 17 miles to shop, wasting gas and polluting the atmosphere with deadly greenhouse gasses.I honestly don't know of anyone who goes to walmart. There are much better stores closer and with better products to choose from. I went through a walmart in another state and they don't have anything I would want. I have no reason to ever go to one again.

[red states rule]

I honestly don't know of anyone who goes to walmart. There are much better stores closer and with better products to choose from. I went through a walmart in another state and they don't have anything I would want. I have no reason to ever go to one again.

Only about 50% of the country shop at a Wal Mart store each week

You remind me of a liberal reporter who said she was shocked when Nixon was reelected in 1972

She whined how she did not know anyone who voted for him

[truthmatters]

You are losing out on the jobs, the money the employees would spend in your town, the taxes the employees and the store would pay, all the other stores that would open up around the Wal mart,a nd all those jobs

Libs are so blinded by their hate for Wal Mart, they can;t see how they are screwing themselves


One of the main reasons people objected to Walmart was their coming into towns and killing the mom and pop stores. Why are you not aware of this?

[red states rule]

One of the main reasons people objected to Walmart was their coming into towns and killing the mom and pop stores. Why are you not aware of this?

It is called capitalism and the free market. If the mom and pop shops can't compete - to bad

[April15]

You are losing out on the jobs, the money the employees would spend in your town, the taxes the employees and the store would pay, all the other stores that would open up around the Wal mart,a nd all those jobs

Libs are so blinded by their hate for Wal Mart, they can;t see how they are screwing themselvesI can't see how the employees of walmart could pay for anything in the area I live in. As for jobs the only people who would work at minimum wage are those to stupid to use a pick and shovel. As for the taxes the employees would pay I do believe they would use more public subsedised services than they paid in.

[red states rule]

I can't see how the employees of walmart could pay for anything in the area I live in. As for jobs the only people who would work at minimum wage are those to stupid to use a pick and shovel. As for the taxes the employees would pay I do believe they would use more public subsedised services than they paid in.

Wal Mart pays well above minimum wage, and with good benefits. Lib like you swallow the crap from the far right, and screw your town out of good economic growth

[glockmail]

One of the main reasons people objected to Walmart was their coming into towns and killing the mom and pop stores. Why are you not aware of this? I've been rip off (paying too much) by "mom and pop" for years. Good riddance and welcome to the 21st century economy.

[red states rule]

I've been rip off (paying too much) by "mom and pop" for years. Good riddance and welcome to the 21st century economy.

I love Wal Mart. So do about 1/3 of the US population that shop there each week

[glockmail]

I love Wal Mart. So do about 1/3 of the US population that shop there each week I thought is was half: http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=155152&postcount=46
:poke:

[red states rule]

I thought is was half: http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=155152&postcount=46
:poke:

About 100 million shop at Wal mart each week - the US poplulation is 300 million

Perhaps 1/2 of the adult population shop at Wal Mart

[glockmail]

About 100 million shop at Wal mart each week - the US poplulation is 300 million

Perhaps 1/2 of the adult population shop at Wal Mart
I'm there once/ month or less. I hate the damn traffic, parking lot and register lines, and returning anything's a bitch. So I make a "Walmart" list on my job pad as a separate page and only go when I absolutely have to. But when I go I'm in there for an hour buying all kinds of crap.

[truthmatters]

Wal Mart pays well above minimum wage, and with good benefits. Lib like you swallow the crap from the far right, and screw your town out of good economic growth


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!

My Town is Vegas We blow up the old and make a party out of it.