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Pale Rider
11-16-2007, 06:21 PM
Dems Stymied on War Bills




2007-11-16 13:29:33
By ANNE FLAHERTY Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) — Nearly a year after anti-war voters put them in power, congressional Democrats remain unable to pass legislation ordering troops home from Iraq.

Frustrated by Republican roadblocks, Democrats now plan to sit on President Bush's $196 billion request for war spending until next year — pushing the Pentagon toward an accounting nightmare and deepening their conflict with the White House on the war.

"We're going to continue to do the right thing for the American people by having limited accountability for the president and not a blank check," said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev.

http://charter.net/news/news_reader.php?storyid=14171515&feedid=248

However, there does seem to be some truth to this statement...


"We need to do more than say to the Iraqis that our patience has run out and that they need to seize the opportunity that has been given them," said Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich. "Their dawdling will only end when they have no choice."

Our troops may have been successful in Iraq, but the Iraqi government has been and still is a failure. I think they've had more than ample time, and now it's time we put some real pressure on these asswads to step up to the plate, or tell them we're pulling out.

Do I think it's important we win in Iraq? Sure, I think our military already has. But do I think Iraq should be a perpetual, open ended war with no definitive end? Hell no.

actsnoblemartin
11-16-2007, 08:31 PM
wre doing better, but the dems dont care

:slap:



Dems Stymied on War Bills





However, there does seem to be some truth to this statement...



Our troops may have been successful in Iraq, but the Iraqi government has been and still is a failure. I think they've had more than ample time, and now it's time we put some real pressure on these asswads to step up to the plate, or tell them we're pulling out.

Do I think it's important we win in Iraq? Sure, I think our military already has. But do I think Iraq should be a perpetual, open ended war with no definitive end? Hell no.

red states rule
11-16-2007, 08:36 PM
wre doing better, but the dems dont care

:slap:

Dems only care about screwing the troops and Pres Bush to appease their kook base

Pale Rider
11-17-2007, 02:46 AM
wre doing better, but the dems dont care

:slap:

As far as I'm concerned, we're done. We've kicked out Sadam, we've stabilized the country, and now it's time for Iraq to take care of itself. It has had MORE than enough time ALREADY to step up, and it hasn't. I believe it hasn't, and WON'T, just as long as it has the American military there as a crutch. We need to tell them to get it together, or we're leaving, period. It's your baby now.

stephanie
11-17-2007, 02:58 AM
I disagree with you Pale my friend...NOW is not the time to pull the plug out from under our troops, when there is a lot of signs of success showing from Iraq..And I could agree with a bit on the Iraqi government elected...

Pulling out now would feel like a defeat for our military...and I don't think the Iraqi police and military are quite up to hold off Iran, Syria if they made a major push once we left....

We're still in other places why do we need to leave Iraq?? I think it would be a great place to build a permanent base to keep an eye on the middle east who want to cause trouble around the world....

just my itty bitty opinion of course..

Pale Rider
11-17-2007, 03:27 AM
I disagree with you Pale my friend...NOW is not the time to pull the plug out from under our troops, when there is a lot of signs of success showing from Iraq..And I could agree with a bit on the Iraqi government elected...

Pulling out now would feel like a defeat for our military...and I don't think the Iraqi police and military are quite up to hold off Iran, Syria if they made a major push once we left....

We're still in other places why do we need to leave Iraq?? I think it would be a great place to build a permanent base to keep an eye on the middle east who want to cause trouble around the world....

just my itty bitty opinion of course..

We have the bulk of our military in Iraq. We don't have enough resources outside of Iraq to even adequately protect ourselves if something big happened else where in the world. I could see a base in Iraq, but that's far from what we have there now.

I know my conservative friends may disagree with me on this, but I do believe the Iraqi government has been a dismal failure, and mostly due to the fact that the American military is there to fall back on as a crutch. I think they need a little more intense incentive to get their shit together than just an open ended commitment from us, because that doesn't seem like it's worked all that well up to now.

I don't really like bush. I think he's an open border, NAU pushing piece of filthy traitor shit, and I'm not going to follow along blindly behind every decision he makes in Iraq. He's fucked up a lot of other stuff. The way he's handling Iraq can be a fuck up as well. His way is NOT the ONLY way. We need new options in Iraq other than bush's way, or no way. However, with that said, that would NEVER mean cutting off funding to our troops. I'm a vet. I believe our military should be funded and armed to the teeth with everything new and the latest and greatest at all times, period, end of story.

And that's just my opinion.

stephanie
11-17-2007, 03:36 AM
I don't really like bush. I think he's an open border, NAU pushing piece of filthy traitor shit, and I'm not going to follow along blindly behind every decision he makes in Iraq. He's fucked up a lot of other stuff. The way he's handling Iraq can be a fuck up as well. His way is NOT the ONLY way. We need new options in Iraq other than bush's way, or no way.

And just my opinion.

I'm not a big fan of Bush either...He's been an embarrassment to me, especially with the border and some of his big spending bullshit...

But, I do stand behind him with Iraq...I think it had to happen eventually, and this was a good time to show the rest of the Middle east who dealt us 9/11, we WERE not going to sit back and take it...I also think Iraq will be a good place for us to build a permanent base in the Middle east...Like we have in other places around the world...Not only do we liberate a nation and it's people, but we benefit from it also...

I'm not military expert so all the opinions I give on this is just that...my opinion......:cheers2:

red states rule
11-17-2007, 06:16 AM
As far as I'm concerned, we're done. We've kicked out Sadam, we've stabilized the country, and now it's time for Iraq to take care of itself. It has had MORE than enough time ALREADY to step up, and it hasn't. I believe it hasn't, and WON'T, just as long as it has the American military there as a crutch. We need to tell them to get it together, or we're leaving, period. It's your baby now.

PR, with all due respect, leaving now is like pulling the troops out of Normandy after we secured the beaches

All you need to see is the sheer panic the Dems are in right now (and the lack of stories aired by the liberal media) to know we are winning and making great progress

Pale Rider
11-17-2007, 02:51 PM
PR, with all due respect, leaving now is like pulling the troops out of Normandy after we secured the beaches

All you need to see is the sheer panic the Dems are in right now (and the lack of stories aired by the liberal media) to know we are winning and making great progress

We need to put new pressure on the Iraqi government to get off their ass and accomplish something, and let them know that the American military is NOT going to be there FOREVER to fall back on. They're going to have to step up to the plate, soon, or suffer an American pull out. We can't afford this. We've beat the shit out of our military men and women with two, three, and four deployments in Iraq, and called up almost every reserve troop we have, that's bull shit. Our equipment is wearing out too. We're just stretched to the breaking point. You people that want to just stay there with no one giving you any idea what so ever WHEN it is we can leave, you have to consider how vulnerable we are right now. You better HOPE that nobody else gets any big ideas about fucking with America, because we couldn't deal with them. We've got nothing outside of Iraq to even mount any kind of defense.

I also think it's hard for us to fight these terrorist rats and dogs when they can blend in with the population, and they do that when we're sitting on top of them. If we pull back then they think they can set up their training camps and operate in plain sight. That's when we intel them and send in a squadron of F-117 Stealth Fighter Bombers in the dark of night and kill the lot of them in one clean mission. Instead of having them hiding under a fucking sheet with a bomb strapped to their belly to kill 15, 20 of our soldiers at a crack. We need to draw them out because they're like cock roaches so we can squish them, and not die doing it.

Ever played the game "Risk?" I have. One sure way to lose is to take a continent and then move all your troops out of it into another one. You'll lose your continent. We "could" lose our continent, like maybe that mexican invasion we've been so long ignoring. What about that? I just think the way we're doing now is far from perfect. I think we need to reevaluate our foreign policy. I do NOT think that staying Iraq FOREVER is right. Maybe a base there, but we need to regroup, and give our troops our rest, get our equipment repaired, and see where we're at after that.

That's what I'd do if I was President. I'd have more troops on our southern border protecting us from that invasion than I'd have in Iraq.

Kathianne
11-17-2007, 03:01 PM
Pale I do NOT disagree with you, a political solution on the part of the Iraqis is required. I don't know about their politicians, right now I don't think they are worth much. However, when I see Muslims asking Christians to return and help rebuild, after the Muslims rebuilt their church, I think it's possible. There are more and more instances of Sunnis and Shia breaking away from AQI and Sadr to think it will not follow.

Pale Rider
11-17-2007, 03:22 PM
Pale I do NOT disagree with you, a political solution on the part of the Iraqis is required. I don't know about their politicians, right now I don't think they are worth much. However, when I see Muslims asking Christians to return and help rebuild, after the Muslims rebuilt their church, I think it's possible. There are more and more instances of Sunnis and Shia breaking away from AQI and Sadr to think it will not follow.

I don't know... I could on and on why I think it was wrong, wrong, wrong for us to go in there in the first place, and this war has been so mismanaged from the start it's pathetic. We're dealing with the bloodiest part of the world there is. They've been fighting and killing each other centuries, and they will CONTINUE to fight and kill each other for centuries AFTER WE LEAVE. To think that we can create some kind of bloodless utopia in Iraq before we leave, I think, is kidding yourself.

We need to set a bench mark for our withdrawal. We need a definite idea of what "winning" is. I think we've already won, militarily. Now we have to FORCE the Iraqi government to step up. Because it seems that as long they have us there to fall back on, they know they don't have to accomplish anything.

Kathianne
11-17-2007, 03:29 PM
I don't know... I could on and on why I think it was wrong, wrong, wrong for us to go in there in the first place, and this war has been so mismanaged from the start it's pathetic. We're dealing with the bloodiest part of the world there is. They've been fighting and killing each other centuries, and they will CONTINUE to fight and kill each other for centuries AFTER WE LEAVE. To think that we can create some kind of bloodless utopia in Iraq before we leave, I think, is kidding yourself.

We need to set a bench mark for our withdrawal. We need a definite idea of what "winning" is. I think we've already won, militarily. Now we have to FORCE the Iraqi government to step up. Because it seems that as long they have us there to fall back on, they know they don't have to accomplish anything.

I was there about 6 months ago or so, but the surge is working. I see it over and over again from people over there, people who also thought it may well be too late. I can see what you mean, problem is, a lot of it is the ceaseless harping from the MSM and Democrats really are getting their message across.

Pale Rider
11-17-2007, 03:46 PM
I was there about 6 months ago or so, but the surge is working. I see it over and over again from people over there, people who also thought it may well be too late. I can see what you mean, problem is, a lot of it is the ceaseless harping from the MSM and Democrats really are getting their message across.

I just have serious doubts as to whether or not we can stabilize that country to a satisfactory conclusion, because I believe even if we do, when we leave, it'll fall back into shit anyway. No matter what gains we make, they'll all be for nothing. That region of the world is a shit whole. Those people breed new generations of killers every day, that are just waiting in the wings for their chance to kill an infidel. It'll never stop. We could stay in Iraq forever.

Kathianne
11-17-2007, 03:49 PM
I just have serious doubts as to whether or not we can stabilize that country to a satisfactory conclusion, because I believe even if we do, when we leave, it'll fall back into shit anyway. No matter what gains we make, they'll all be for nothing. That region of the world is a shit whole. Those people breed new generations of killers every day, that are just waiting in the wings for their chance to kill an infidel. It'll never stop. We could stay in Iraq forever.

What can I say, I'm an absolute cynic, with a hopeful streak! Shit, part of that sounds like GW and that makes me ill.

Pale Rider
11-17-2007, 04:01 PM
What can I say, I'm an absolute cynic, with a hopeful streak! Shit, part of that sounds like GW and that makes me ill.

I hear ya... it's a mess.

red states rule
11-18-2007, 05:58 AM
I just have serious doubts as to whether or not we can stabilize that country to a satisfactory conclusion, because I believe even if we do, when we leave, it'll fall back into shit anyway. No matter what gains we make, they'll all be for nothing. That region of the world is a shit whole. Those people breed new generations of killers every day, that are just waiting in the wings for their chance to kill an infidel. It'll never stop. We could stay in Iraq forever.

PR, I believe most people love freedom, and when they get a taste of it, they want more

More and more people are turning against the terrorists. However, the Dems constant attempts to surrender is sending the terrorists a message. Keep attacking, give us some time, and you will win

Pale Rider
11-19-2007, 12:34 PM
PR, I believe most people love freedom, and when they get a taste of it, they want more

More and more people are turning against the terrorists. However, the Dems constant attempts to surrender is sending the terrorists a message. Keep attacking, give us some time, and you will win

And how do you "specifically" define "win?" And I mean a definitive point where you say, "OK, now we can go home," or at least draw down our troops.