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Roopull
02-13-2007, 03:54 PM
Admittedly, this is a bit long... but bear with me, read through it...


I admit it. Generally speaking, I can't stand people who call themselves, "poor." I can't stand the victim mentality. I was raised by a single mother & at times, we were very poor... 3rd world poor... no running water poor. Being there, I saw what it took to get into & out of that situation. I have little sympathy for the poor... outside of the mentally ill, physically disabled, or otherwise stricken I simply do not see the excuse.

Then, my good pal Boortz posts this damn article just to piss me off... it's long & I've added my own smartass remarks in there to highlight some of the things that piss me off about it... THIS is the type of person on minimum wage? THIS is the type of person we're supposed to feel sorry for & use as justification to molest the private property rights of business owners? Read on...
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Living on $6 an hour
Brenda Kelly is one of the Lowcountry's working poor. Paychecks never stretch far enough. An increase in the federal minimum wage would help, but that might come too late for the woman raising four children and facing eviction.
Sunday, February 11, 2007
BY JESSICA JOHNSON
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g14/roopull/Carnuts/2_11_2007_lead.jpgALAN HAWES/STAFF
Brenda Kelly holds her youngest child, 3-year- old James Campbell, before he heads to bed for the night.
First comment. I notice the kid isn't white. I don't really have a problem with that. Heck, had previous relationships worked out, I might have ended up with a mulatto kid, myself. However, I was and am very aware of just what kind of a position that puts a child in withing society... not black, not white... a mulatto girl at work begrudgingly calls herself a niggeronkey. She isn't amused by her lack of "belonging." Whatever... I'm sure Brenda Kelly was very concious of the decision she was making when she decided to bring that little kid into the world & I'm quite sure she's giving him all the guidance he needs to not need to belong. :sarcasm: There are other hints about the "family" in that pic, but I'll leave them alone, for now.








Brenda Kelly leaves for work at 2:30 p.m., quietly saying goodbye to her sister. The youngest of Kelly's six children remains occupied in another room. She shuts the door and heads down Baxter Street.

SIX CHILDREN! Does she NOT KNOW how they're made? Clearly, she's never been a big breadwinner, why on Earth is she continuing to breed?

But it's too late. Her 3-year-old, James Campbell, runs out the door and onto the porch with a scowl on his face, watching his mother go.

"He doesn't like it when I leave him," she said.

Her sister, Jenny Johnson, 36, follows behind and takes James inside In other words, she's getting free childcare as Kelly walks toward Chicora Street to her $6-an-hour job. There's the pay rate she's working at... keep that in mind. She keeps her eyes to the ground, careful to avoid eye contact with strangers, her mind wandering to her children.

James is her baby, transfixed by Power Rangers. John Campbell, 5, is her cranky child, who when upset can take hours to speak again. Ambur Kelly, 10, is her outgoing one, the exact opposite of her mother growing up. And Christopher Kelly is her shy one, who makes statements far wiser than his 9 years. "I can't wait to see what he will be when he grows up," the 38-year-old Kelly said. There's another good hint... her age.

There's also Ernie Crespo, 18, 38 minus 18 is 20. That's when her first was born. Does the article say anything about this MAN's job? If he's 18 & living at home... is he helping out?who is headed into the Navy soon, and his sister, Sybil Crespo, who is 15. Kelly lost custody of them after she took them out of Virginia illegally.Oh, no, they're not living at home because mommy can't obey a judge's order. Hmmm... ever been to a custody hearing? This is only half the story. The judge didn't take the kids away because she took them out of state. This is bullshit. She and their father had ended their eight-year relationship and agreed in court to share custody.

Kelly remained in the Norfolk area for a year before returning with her children to her childhood home in West Ashley. Then Ernesto Crespo filed for full custody and took the children back.


"It was traumatic for me. I love my kids," Kelly said. "It just hurt me to lose custody." In other words, she only has four kids to care for... there goes some of the emotional heartstring pulling power this minimum wage poster child had!

Her efforts to win back custody failed, but she is allowed visitation during school breaks. She and the children's father remain on good terms. Ernesto Crespo said he won custody mainly because Kelly violated the custody agreement by leaving the state.

"She is a great mom," Crespo said. He knows that when his children are with her that they are fed, bathed and clothed, despite her struggles.

"Her dreams just didn't pan out how she expected them to."

With the loss of her children weighing on her, she met Chris Kelly. They had two children, married and separated. In that order?She then had two children with a third man, but she no longer has a relationship with either of the fathers. Knows how to pick 'em, doesn't she?

Kelly pays child support for her two oldest children, but she receives none for her other children, despite being a single mother. Who's fault is that? I'm not 100% sure about the laws Charleston, but in Georgia, failure to pay child support can get you assraped by Uncle Sam. Perhaps she's just too damn lazy to pursue the fathers... more on this theme later.

John Campbell, 35, the father of Kelly's two youngest children, said he tries to help and once paid to recharge Kelly's phone minutes and brought his son medicine. But he also makes $6 an hour and pays $75 a week in child support for another child. Kelly has not sought court-ordered child support from him. There you have it... she picked a real winner for a father, one who was already paying some other dumbass child support & Brenda Kelly HASN'T EVEN ATTEMPTED TO GET THE OWED CHILD SUPPORT!

"I barely make any money myself," Campbell said.

Chris Kelly, the father of Christopher and Ambur, is serving time in prison for robbery and hasn't paid his court-ordered support. Wow... Just wow. The only man this woman managed to get knocked up by took her kids from her in a custody battle & now she pays him child support. The other two studs are either minimum wage losers themselves or are in prison. Dumbass.

So Kelly walks to work to provide for all six of her children. NO SHE DOESN'T. She walks to work to provide for four of her children, pay child support for two of them [an important distinction, imo] & she's working to provide for more than just this... more on that later, too. The path to her $6-an-hour job takes her by fields littered with paper, broken beer bottles and assorted garbage. The chimney smoke rising from Chicora homes smells of burning paper. She pulls her coat closed in the 40-degree weather. Come on, you Yankees... wipe those tears. I know that hearing of some dumb welfare queen shivering in the 40 degree weather just tears you up inside. :roll:

The Chicora-Cherokee neighborhood, a crime-plagued area well, at least one of her babydaddies fits in! just blocks from the former Charleston Naval Base in North Charleston, is one of the most economically depressed areas in North Charleston. Eighty-five percent of its residents are renters and a staggering 98 percent of its children live in poverty Yup.. thanks to dumbass lazy jerks like Brenda Kelly. It's a neighborhood Kelly has called home for four years, but with bills to pay, she doesn't know how much longer she'll be there. She said she feels safe, but on her walks she clips a small knife to her pants, just in case she needs to protect herself.

She's never had to use it, but it's there for people who get close enough to see it.

"I don't want you to think that I fear for my life," Kelly said. But she might encounter beggars or people strung out on crack.

"You never know what they might do," she said.

It's about a mile and a quarter from Kelly's home to the old Shipwatch Square shopping center, where she works at a discount clothing store. Kelly started working as a sales associate at the retail outlet six months ago with the promise that she would be able to step up into a management position. Kelly often runs the cash register, greets customers and rearranges sections. There you have it. She's at six bucks an hour AT A NEW JOB. This isn't even a pay rate she'd be stuck at forever. Do they ask her what happened to the job she had before this one? Noooooo...

"I like my job," Kelly said. "I like the people I work with."

But she would also like to earn more money. Well, honey, you didn't go into work until 2:30 in the afternoon. Why don't you get a job at McDonald's or some other joint that opens up earlier?

It might be a year before she receives a raise, unless the South Carolina Legislature passes a bill raising the minimum wage from $5.15 to $7 per hour before then. A measure in Congress would increase the minimum wage to $7.25 by 2009 in incremental steps.



Most weeks, Kelly works 40 hours, 40 hours? 40 hours? You're going to whine about being broke & ONLY WORK 40 HOURS? STFU! taking home $260 to $300 every two weeks after the court takes out $117 in child support. Did you catch it? There's another hint as to what kind of woman she is. She doesn't pay child support, her checks are garnished for some reason... the courts FORCE HER to pay. Her first baby daddy clearly has more drive & initiative than she does. That's probably part of the reason HE has custody! When Virginia's Department of Social Services set the payments Kelly worked as a gas station manager earning between $35,000 to $40,000 a year. And she hasn't been back to court in the past ELEVEN YEARS to get it adjusted? Lazy dumbass!

"Considering my income and what I was paying, it didn't seem that much to me," she said.

She quit that job when Ambur was born in 1996. With only a high school education, Kelly has been unable to find a job that pays similar wages. So, she QUIT the only job she ever had that paid well? WTF? Why am I supposed to feel sorry for her, again?

Despite her situation, she hasn't asked the court to reduce her payments. Because she's a lazy dumbass. Clearly.

With rent of $515 a month, Kelly has little money left for anything else. Like a brain. She earns so little that she and her children qualify for the Food Stamp Program and Medicaid Health Insurance. Woohoo! I'm sure glad my taxes are going to help this idiot out! Aren't you? She's a viiiiiiiiictim, afterall! On a recent Tuesday, a $5 bill Kelly found in the street helped pay for her evening meal during a break. Otherwise she would have eaten nothing. Did you guys see the picture? I she starving? Nooooo... actually, she looks a little hefty to my eyes. She also has a monthly water bill averaging $70, and monthly utility bills run about $300.

"Thank God my sister lives with me," Kelly said.

Johnson and her three children share a four-bedroom home on Baxter Street with Kelly and her four younger children. Johnson helps pay utility bills using her monthly federal assistance of $1,200, and she watches Kelly's children in the afternoon and evenings. In other words, we have two welfare queens living it up... one DOESN'T EVEN HAVE A JOB!



On school days, Ambur and Christopher go to Metanoia's Young Leaders Program after school. The program at St. Matthew Baptist Church on Reynolds Avenue teaches children about leadership, pairs them with mentors Thank GOD the two welfare queens aren't the only adults in these kids lives! and gives them time to finish homework. Most nights, the program also provides an evening meal through the Lowcountry Food Bank's Kids Cafe program. Through informal surveys, the staff knows that most children in the program won't eat again until school breakfast. Pathetic.

On this night, Christopher finishes his homework early so he helps set the table for the program's 38 other children. He begins pouring whole milk into cups, but Rev. Evelyn Oliveira, co-director of the program, interrupts. The milk needs to be saved for the following night's meal. This afternoon they will eat a meatball and a scoop of potatoes along with their vitamins. On Kelly's workdays, her sister picks up and cares for the children.

By the time Kelly returns from work, usually close to 9 p.m., her children will be asleep. Wait... she left for work at 2:30, walked several blocks to work, meaning she probably got there around three & is back home by 9pm? That leaves little room for anything more than a 6 hour shift! How many days a week is she working?

After Christmas, Kelly's hours were temporarily reduced in the post-holiday shopping slowdown. On a recent day off, Kelly had the opportunity to walk the children home - picking them up just before 6 p.m., when the leadership program ends. Ambur and Christopher pulled out their report cards on the walk showing all A's and B's.

"I tell them all the time that they need to get good grades. I have no way to send to them to college, and high school is not enough anymore," Kelly said.

Back at home, Kelly further reviewed the report cards while perched on the arm of a peeling fake-leather chair. That's it. Sit on the arm of the chair. It'll last longer that way. :roll:

She read that a Chicora Elementary teacher wrote that Christopher knocks her socks off because of his marked improvement. Kelly smiled. "That's good, Christopher."

Her children typically make the A-B honor roll. The Saint Andrew's High School graduate tells Ambur that now she needs to work on making the president's list, an honor for students who obtain all A's. Kelly wants her children to make it into magnet schools rather than the alternative: attending Brentwood Middle School, a failing urban school.

While they talk, Johnson makes final preparations to beadle hats in the kitchen. The dish includes a slice of fried bologna served over mashed potatoes and topped with cheese. Johnson made the meal from leftovers in the kitchen. Leftover bologna?

Most of the children say they are not hungry but eat a little. With three of seven children in the Kelly and Johnson home eating their evening meal elsewhere, planning meals becomes difficult. THE HORROR! Six hours of work a day for one of them & uh... no hours for the other! It's AMAZING! AMAZING, I tell you, that they can manage to pull off this complex planning of mashed potatoes, bologna & cheese! They're executive material!

Johnson and Kelly skip dinner to make sure the children have enough to eat. Wait, the kids aren't hungry because they already got a FREE DINNER elsewhere... and only "eat a little" wtf?

"It's rough the last week of the month," Kelly said. "We eat a lot of hot dogs." Mmmmmmm hot dogs! Hey, dumbass, there are other foods in the grocery store that provide more sustainence per ounce & per dollar than f'ing hot dogs. Of course, that might require you cutting into your clearly busy schedule to actually prepare a real meal!

Kelly's monthly $300 in food stamps runs out quickly. If a friend can offer a ride, Kelly shops at a grocery warehouse once a month. Otherwise, the sisters walk to a convenience store on the corner, Oh... you're shopping at a convenience store. Brilliant! I'm sure that even though you can walk to a shopping center where there's a clothing store, you can't manage to walk to a grocery store... where items cost twice as much as a regular grocery store. Johnson says she often sends her children to the store on the corner of Baxter Street. On one night, she sends her oldest son, Lorenzo, 14, there twice, once to buy dog food Wait! Dog food? WFT are you buying dog food for? You supposedly can't feed your kids but you have A dog? and second time for a dose of medicine. Uh... wait, the idiot takes two trips? One for dog food & one for medicine? How much medicine are you people taking? Does it come in bottles so big the kid can't put it in his/her pocket?

After dinner, Christopher and John run through the house with Nerf guns while James rides a small bike through the house, Good idea. Along with sitting on the arms of the chairs, go ahead & ride a damned bike through the house. Clearly, you'll be able to replace the carpet any time you want, so go ahead & f-up the carpet you have racing through a blanket hung over the doorway to keep in the heat. Kelly's nephew, Robert Mims, 12, sits quietly in the living room drawing a car and then begins clearing items from a bunk bed in his mother's room, where he has chosen to sleep.

He brings out the casing to a shotgun shell, a memento from a trip he took to Ohio. Git'R Done!

"I find ones like this outside all the time," Robert said.

When they first moved to Chicora, Robert heard the shot from a gun and saw the aftermath: A victim ran from the bushes across the street, and an ambulance and police rushed to the scene. Around that same time period, Johnson saw sparks of gunfire come from behind the home. Those were the only such incidents, however, and Johnson says her family is as safe as it can be anywhere. Clearly. :roll:


This next paragraph is going to describe the horrid living conditions... you can skip it. I'll explain why later.
A piece of artificial wood blocks a broken window panel in the front room. A window unit in the dining room is the home's sole heat source. Drafts come from everywhere, so blankets are hung over doorways and windows. The sisters' four sons share one room, and the two girls share another. On a recent cold night, Ambur takes a futon in her mother's room and Johnson's daughter, Briona, sleeps in her mother's room. Johnson and Kelly close their doors and use space heaters to warm their rooms. The door to the boys' room is kept open in the hopes that heat from the dining room unit will reach it. The women once plugged space heaters in all four bedrooms, but the electric bill was more than their rent.

At night, two mixed-breed dogs and two bull mastiffs come indoors, taking over living room sofas. Wait... not A dog, but FOUR dogs? Bull Mastiffs? Those are big f'ing dogs! Imagine how much these idiots are spending on dog food! How's this... if you were really going hungry, you'd eat those damn dogs... not hot dogs. So far the only intruders have been rats, which Angel, a medium-sized brown dog, has caught and killed on two occasions, Kelly said. Droppings on top of a water heater in the laundry room signal another rat may be lurking, but none of the children have been harmed.

When the alarm goes off at 6:30 a.m., Kelly stays in the bed just a few more minutes, knowing that as soon as she stands up, her feet will begin to ache. Yeah... from the tortorous six hour shift. :roll: Years of standing through monotonous jobs such as a gas station manager and a store clerk have taken a toll on her arches. Johnson awoke first to open the oven door and cranked the temperature to 500 degrees to heat the bathroom off the kitchen.

"No one wants to get out of their warm bed to go to a cold bathroom," Johnson said.

The home's second bathroom, in the far back of the home, is too cold to enter. Most mornings, the kids wake up at 7 a.m.; put on their school uniforms; and then take turns sharing the bathroom, carefully sidestepping a hole in the floor as they cross the threshold.
Again, ignore the details about the sh!tty house.

Once dressed, the seven children gather in the living room, waiting to leave for school. Except for the littlest one - James, who is still asleep - the children will eat breakfast in their classrooms at school before lessons begin. They qualify for free breakfasts and lunches at school. So, they get free breakfast, free lunch and free dinner. Gotchya. :roll: In fact, it seems that weekends aside, the ONLY meal these two women are preparing consist of leftover mashed potatoes, bologna, cheese and hotdogs?

At 7:30 a.m., Kelly gets up to walk the younger children to school. Ambur sneaks a swig of Mountain Dew before heading outside. MOUNTAIN DEW! That's a NAME BRAND COLA! 'Round here, they're three bucks for a 12 pack. Fancy stuff. It's a good thing they can afford such luxuries!

On the walk, Ambur joins a classmate as Chicora Elementary comes into view. Kelly leaves them at the school door. The early morning routine and walk are the longest period of time she has to spend with her school-age children on workdays.

"I love my children and I wish our situation was better, but I don't see that happening," Kelly said.

Without a car or regular transportation, she must find work at places she can get to on foot.

Kelly once worked 12- to 13-hour days at a convenience store on Baxter Street. She earned more money, but she quit after 18 months. Whew! That's the spirit!

"I couldn't deal with it. I never saw my children," Kelly said. Wait... didn't they just say that she doesn't get to see them as it is because her work schedule is opposite their school schedule? The reason she quit that job with 12 to 13 hour days is because she's a lazy fvcking dumbass who would rather have YOU pay for her kids food, education etc...

Within a week, she had found her sales job at the retail clothing store. It's one of the lower-paying jobs she has taken. Oh! BRILLIANT! She quit the job at the gas station BEFORE SHE FOUND A REPLACEMENT! Just DAMN!



Kelly isn't sure how she ended up in her situation. Well, hell, I'm not even through with the article & it's prettyd damned clear to me! It's not any one thing: child support payments, low paying jobs or poor choices in men.

"It's a vicious cycle I can't seem to get out of. One thing after another keeps me held back," Kelly said. Kelly, YOU have held yourself back. You are a lazy sack of shit. You are a bridge person. Wear the badge with honor. Normal people would wear it with shame, but clearly you enjoy your victim status.

Four years ago, she reached the end of her rope. A friend had taken her in, sharing a two-bedroom trailer. Kelly, pregnant with James and going into labor, was told that she would need to find a new place to live. The day she got out of the hospital, she drove around town looking for a place to go. She moved into a hotel for a month before John and James' grandmother, Roberta Campbell Porterfield, agreed to rent Kelly her current home in Chicora. It's unclear how much longer she and her family will live there.



In December, Kelly used her rent money to buy Christmas presents. Porterfield hasn't returned to the home since Kelly refused to pay the rent. Now the home is listed for sale. On Feb. 2, Kelly found an eviction notice on her door. Porterfield has accepted partial rent payments since July and said that Kelly owes her $1,600.

"I've tried to help her out," Porterfield said. "I am not going to take care of Brenda. You can't live nowhere for free." Daz rite. you cain't live nowhere fo free. Uh, actually you can if you're not a lazy dumbass piece of shit. More on that later too...

Porterfield once filed to evict Kelly in April, but she canceled the proceeding after the two came to an agreement.

Porterfield said all she wants is for Kelly to pay something. Porterfield said the court will send Kelly a second eviction notice Thursday. Kelly could request a hearing, but it's unclear if she will. Hey, I bet she won't! She's too damn lazy to do anything else...

"What am I supposed to do? In court it would be my word against hers," Kelly said. And clearly, you're as trustworthy as a ticking Yugo.

Kelly once considered applying for a subsidized housing program, but she said she has already given up so much information for other assistance programs that she doesn't know if she wants to fill out more paperwork.
There you have it. There's another great payoff. That crappy house? That eviction? It's all meaningless. She's just too damned lazy to fill out the paperwork to get section 8 housing! Holy hell! This woman is South Carolina's PosterChild for the minimum wage!!!! HA!

Kelly hoped that she could purchase the home through a local home-buyers program, but her credit report shows a past due medical bill. Her credit report also notes that she owes past due child support for her children in Virginia because of gaps between jobs.



Preparing for another day of work, Kelly changes into a $22 outfit of brown slacks and a dress shirt. It's the first outfit Kelly has bought herself in six months. She grabs a few slices of processed cheese, an impromptu lunch that she shares with one of her dogs.

"They say this country is so rich," Kelly said, "but why are so many people living paycheck to paycheck, just one week from being in the street?" I'll leave that one alone.
XXXXXXXXXXXXX

So there you have it. Our friends in the media have searched far & wide to find someone actually living on the minimum wage & this is it. She's got six kids by three fathers. Lost two of them to the first dad who sued for custody & won. Not only that, but her checks are garnished for childsupport... a court order is generally required for such things.

She has quit two previous jobs that paid more money. She says she quit because she wanted to be with her kids, but the crappy job she has now has opposite scheduling as her kids' schooling.

She lives in a dumpy crappy house with her welfare winning sister & her three kids. Along with them are four dogs... at least two of them are pretty damned big. She could get public housing, but she's too lazy to fill out the paperwork. She's also too lazy to file papers to get child support from the only baby daddy not in jail.

What childcare she does need is free.

She says she works 40 hours a week, but clearly doesn't work any longer than 6 hours at a time. Her kids get all three meals free Monday through Friday. What grocery shopping needs to be done happens at a convenience store & includes Mountain Dew, bologna, & hot dogs.

The clencher, of course, is the fact that she's in a $6/hr job - not because she was layed off - not because she was fired for taking care of her sick kids - but because she quit. She quit her other job before she even found a replacement. She's at a $6/hr job & she's only been there 6 months. It's a new job. She's barely past the probationary period.

She's an idiot. To hell with the fvcking minimum wage.



I'm sitting here wondering... any of you guys who support the minimum wage... have you ever actually been poor?


EDIT:
For a true understanding of just what an uncaring ass I am, follow this link. It's a little flash animation type thing that the newspaper put together.

If you pay attention, you'll notice a few things are omitted from the animation, although touching piano music wasn't omitted. The fact that the landlord is her former mother-in-law, the fact that she could get public housing but is too lazy to fill out the paperwork, and the room piled with clothes & a space heater kinda' caught -or didn't- my eye.

http://www.charleston.net/multimedia/minimum_wage/index.html

I was also pissy enough to google a few things in the story... we have the street she lives on (it appears on Google Maps Satellite image to be only about 300 feet long,) the after-school program at Metanoia, the Chicora Elementary school, and the reference to the Shipwatch Square shopping center where she works.

The church & school are less than a mile from the house, but the shopping center is 1.9 miles away. That's a 4 mile round trip, so we KNOW she can at least walk that far... but, she wouldn't have to. She passes a place called "S&L Supermarket" on her way home from work.

Low & behold, though, that withing 2 1/2 miles, there are two other grocery stores. One is a Piggly Wiggly... kind of a discount cheap grocery store. Good prices, in other words. Enjoy that bologna. :roll:



Okay, I'm done. You can now talk amongst yourselves about what a jerk I must be! :D

darin
02-13-2007, 04:05 PM
I'd guestimate 95% of poor are poor by choice.

Mr. P
02-13-2007, 04:05 PM
Kelly isn't sure how she ended up in her situation.

Errrr could it be she got naked and spread em six times? Now she doesn't want to do theeeee paperwork? Well shit, IT'S ALL MY FAULT I know it is! SEND HELP! Hummmmm.

jackass
02-13-2007, 04:30 PM
What an asshole!! :upyours:





Im just kidding. I understand your point of view. Sometimes people make mad decisions and cant seem to get out of them. I really think if you get welfare or food stamps you should be made to see a counselor once a month or so. Maybe attend a class to teach them just basic ideas...like NOT shopping at a convenience store!

shattered
02-13-2007, 04:54 PM
I'n not going to quote the whole thing - this sums it up pretty good:

<i>She's an idiot. To hell with the fvcking minimum wage.</i>

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/mmlnt/udaman.gif

Roomy
02-13-2007, 05:53 PM
Your abuse of the poor speaks volumes of you, I don't like you already, please change my mind.

Nienna
02-13-2007, 05:55 PM
I liked your commentary... gives a whole different perspective.

shattered
02-13-2007, 06:06 PM
Your abuse of the poor speaks volumes of you, I don't like you already, please change my mind.

Abuse of the poor? She's "poor" because of all the stupid decisions she made *REPEATEDLY*. Accidents happen once. You grow from them and you deal with them. Anything more is sheer stupidity. In spite of all that, she's still getting a free ride.

Roomy
02-13-2007, 06:18 PM
Abuse of the poor? She's "poor" because of all the stupid decisions she made *REPEATEDLY*. Accidents happen once. You grow from them and you deal with them. Anything more is sheer stupidity. In spite of all that, she's still getting a free ride.

Is it her fault or the systems?Accidents do happen repeatedly btw.

The disenfranchised are in a hole they find impossible to climb out of.I am so pleased you are privileged enough not to know how it feels to be her or one of the millions like her and worse.If it makes anyone happy to denegrate these people it only serves to make me wonder about them.

shattered
02-13-2007, 06:22 PM
Pardon my ...vulgarity... But..are you going to tell me the SYSTEM IS RESPONSIBLE FOR HER SPREADING HER LEGS REPEATEDLY EVEN THO SHE COULDN'T PROVIDE PROPERLY FOR HER FIRST CHILD MUCH LESS ALL THE REST???!!!

The system is responsible for her leaving one job (willingly) before she had another?

The system is responsible for her being too damned lazy to do anything to fix anything that's wrong?

Bullshit.

And I'm finished shouting now.

Oh, and for the record, 6 children is no accident - condoms are cheap. Abstinence is free.

Nienna
02-13-2007, 06:25 PM
What struck me was the interviewer's attitude. This woman has probably been told so many times, and from so many sources, that she has it rough... no wonder she believes it. It's people like the liberal media who keep her down under the guise of sympathy. It's disgusting. Like a rapist telling a woman he really loves her.

Roomy
02-13-2007, 06:28 PM
Pardon my ...vulgarity... But..are you going to tell me the SYSTEM IS RESPONSIBLE FOR HER SPREADING HER LEGS REPEATEDLY EVEN THO SHE COULDN'T PROVIDE PROPERLY FOR HER FIRST CHILD MUCH LESS ALL THE REST???!!!

The system is responsible for her leaving one job (willingly) before she had another?

The system is responsible for her being too damned lazy to do anything to fix anything that's wrong?

Bullshit.

And I'm finished shouting now.

Maybe she is catholic?

Maybe her job was affecting her health?

Maybe she isn't lazy at all and the original poster is a flaming thick bastard who has posted his own take on the situation and you have bought it?

Lots of maybes to be getting on with , maybe you are right and she is a stupid, ignorant, uneducated lazy fool, my point being not all poor are.The original poster and those in agreement with him seem to think otherwise.

avatar4321
02-13-2007, 06:40 PM
Maybe she is catholic?

Maybe her job was affecting her health?

Maybe she isn't lazy at all and the original poster is a flaming thick bastard who has posted his own take on the situation and you have bought it?

Lots of maybes to be getting on with , maybe you are right and she is a stupid, ignorant, uneducated lazy fool, my point being not all poor are.The original poster and those in agreement with him seem to think otherwise.

I was unaware that catholics were against abstinence.

She was working at a gas station, what are the health risks of that? She said she quit the job to spend more time with her children, thing is she is still working when her children are at home.

She needs to set her priorities, sacrifice to better herself, and get to work.

KitchenKitten99
02-13-2007, 06:42 PM
Maybe she is catholic?

Maybe her job was affecting her health?

Maybe she isn't lazy at all and the original poster is a flaming thick bastard who has posted his own take on the situation and you have bought it?

Lots of maybes to be getting on with , maybe you are right and she is a stupid, ignorant, uneducated lazy fool, my point being not all poor are.The original poster and those in agreement with him seem to think otherwise.

Catholic? I'm not even Catholic and I know that they tend to wait until MARRIAGE. Her status was 'relationship'. If she was married, they would have said 'marriage'. Not only that, is all her kids have different last names. THAT should tell you something.

If her job was affecting her health, isn't there something she could do about it, such as FIND A NEW ONE?! OR, file lawsuit if there is a dangerous situation. We here in the US have OSHA, which oversees workplace safety. She could have them investigate, and occasionally workers may be entitled to some sort of settlement based on the violation of the employer.

She has no excuse here. She stated that she didn't know how she ended up in her situation. How about sleeping around? What if she were to have/get an STD, which is spread the same way. Could she still say she doesn't know how she got herself into the situation?

Why should she be paid a higher wage when her skills may not reflect that pay increase? People should get raises based on work quality, not government's opinion on how much she should make to make ends meet.

What about her employer who has to raise prices and maybe cut/raise cost of benefits because he has to by law, pay employees more, even though they may be dumber than a box of rocks?

If she wants higher pay-she should EARN it and work for it, not just be handed it. The government is the enabler of the 'poor'. Some of the poorest people here in this country have at least a home, basic utilities, and at least one working car. That is MORE than most of the poor in the rest of the world.

shattered
02-13-2007, 06:43 PM
Soo..if you're Catholic, it's ok to sleep around, have sex outside of marriage, etc as long as you don't do anything to circumvent getting pregnant..? Seems to me not a very sound and/or practical religion. No? Is that how you'd raise your childen?

Roomy
02-13-2007, 06:48 PM
I was unaware that catholics were against abstinence.

She was working at a gas station, what are the health risks of that? She said she quit the job to spend more time with her children, thing is she is still working when her children are at home.

She needs to set her priorities, sacrifice to better herself, and get to work.

Abstain:uhoh: are you for real?

The stress of leaving her children fo long periods of time might count.

She is working, she is trying to provide, what is the problem here and how dare you and anyone else tell anyone how many children they are allowed, do you live in China?It seems to me the only problem you lot have is the number of children she has and if she didn't have so many minimum wage would be more than enough for her, you try living on it pal.I hope you never find yourself in a similar position as her, you are too clever for that.:poke:

Roomy
02-13-2007, 06:54 PM
I am trying to prove my point by raising as many absurd assumptions as you lot on this topic, I am not surprised it has flown way above the radar.Seriously, I am beginning to lose heart here, one thing after another, if trampling over weakest in society becomes an olympic event we have an abundance of medal hopefuls here, shame.

avatar4321
02-13-2007, 06:55 PM
Abstain:uhoh: are you for real?

The stress of leaving her children fo long periods of time might count.

She is working, she is trying to provide, what is the problem here and how dare you and anyone else tell anyone how many children they are allowed, do you live in China?It seems to me the only problem you lot have is the number of children she has and if she didn't have so many minimum wage would be more than enough for her, you try living on it pal.I hope you never find yourself in a similar position as her, you are too clever for that.:poke:

Yes, Im for real. I have years of experience doing so. I can promise you that i neither have any children legitimate or illegitimate. Im working hard and in a good position to do well for myself in this life. Fact is abstinence works every time its actually tried.

Hello?! She high paying job where she hardly saw her kids to take low paying job where she hardly sees her kids. obviously it wasnt seeing her kids that was the problem.

I refuse to live off minimum ways because I intend to qualify myself so i never have to. Should I ever have to, I will work my butt off to qualify myself for more money and not simply demand the government force my boss to give me more money.

Heck, she could get more than enough government assistance to put herself through college and take care of her kids. Why the heck should we make major policy changes that hurt small businesses and job growth into place for someone who refuses to actually do something to better herself? There is only so much that can be done for such people.

avatar4321
02-13-2007, 06:56 PM
I am trying to prove my point by raising as many absurd assumptions as you lot on this topic, I am not surprised it has flown way above the radar.Seriously, I am beginning to lose heart here, one thing after another, if trampling over weakest in society becomes an olympic event we have an abundance of medal hopefuls here, shame.

Well in order to do that we would ahve to raise aburd assumptions to begin with. We arent. We are more than happy to give her the help she needs. heck its already out there. But you cant help people who refuse to take advantage of what theyve already been given.

shattered
02-13-2007, 06:58 PM
Abstain:uhoh: are you for real?

The stress of leaving her children fo long periods of time might count.

She is working, she is trying to provide, what is the problem here and how dare you and anyone else tell anyone how many children they are allowed, do you live in China?It seems to me the only problem you lot have is the number of children she has and if she didn't have so many minimum wage would be more than enough for her, you try living on it pal.I hope you never find yourself in a similar position as her, you are too clever for that.:poke:

Nobody is telling anyone how many children they may or may not have. Just don't cry "victim" when you have more than you can provide for. Especially <b>5</b> more.

Roomy
02-13-2007, 07:00 PM
Yes, Im for real. I have years of experience doing so. I can promise you that i neither have any children legitimate or illegitimate. Im working hard and in a good position to do well for myself in this life. Fact is abstinence works every time its actually tried.

Hello?! She high paying job where she hardly saw her kids to take low paying job where she hardly sees her kids. obviously it wasnt seeing her kids that was the problem.

I refuse to live off minimum ways because I intend to qualify myself so i never have to. Should I ever have to, I will work my butt off to qualify myself for more money and not simply demand the government force my boss to give me more money.

Heck, she could get more than enough government assistance to put herself through college and take care of her kids. Why the heck should we make major policy changes that hurt small businesses and job growth into place for someone who refuses to actually do something to better herself? There is only so much that can be done for such people.

Good for you and good luck to you, I hope you never have to eat those words.

5stringJeff
02-13-2007, 07:01 PM
Ridiculous.

Roomy
02-13-2007, 07:06 PM
Nobody is telling anyone how many children they may or may not have. Just don't cry "victim" when you have more than you can provide for. Especially <b>5</b> more.

I have four kids, do you think I have three too many?If so what do you suggest I do with the surplus?The funny thing is it is only ever too late when it is too late.I am in the fortunate position to be able to speak from both sides of the coin here.I try neverto look down on anyone, try it, it may do you good.

shattered
02-13-2007, 07:10 PM
I have four kids, do you think I have three too many?If so what do you suggest I do with the surplus?The funny thing is it is only ever too late when it is too late.I am in the fortunate position to be able to speak from both sides of the coin here.I try neverto look down on anyone, try it, it may do you good.

If you were making $6.00 an hour, and trying to support those 4 kids on that, would you have 2 more? If so, you'd be an idiot, too.

Are you supporting your 4 children, or are you expecting everyone else to do it for you? If you're supporting them, more power to you - have more.

Roomy
02-13-2007, 07:16 PM
If you were making $6.00 an hour, and trying to support those 4 kids on that, would you have 2 more? If so, you'd be an idiot, too.

Are you supporting your 4 children, or are you expecting everyone else to do it for you? If you're supporting them, more power to you - have more.

I found myself unemployed many years ago with four small children a wife and a mortgage, I am thankful that the welfare state in britain is more forgiving than that here.I worked my way out of the hole I found myself in, some are never quite so fortunate.If this lady was not working at all and failing to contribute anything toward the upkeep of her family I might(might) agree with you depending upon the circumstances, as it is she goes to work, what is your problem other than the amount of kids she has?

5stringJeff
02-13-2007, 07:18 PM
Roomy, the whole point is that the article is written so that you'll feel sorry for someone who has six kids (who get free meals five days a week), four dogs, and has a live-in babysitter, yet won't get off her ass long enough to clean her house, apply for public assistance housing, get her child support adjusted correctly, or go to the supermarket instead of the convenience store to buy groceries so she can buy more food. I don't feel particularly sorry for her, since she's made the choices to put herself in this situation. I would certainly try to help her improve her lot in life, but given her choices so far, I don't know that she would accept it.

Grumplestillskin
02-13-2007, 07:18 PM
I found myself unemployed many years ago with four small children a wife and a mortgage, I am thankful that the welfare state in britain is more forgiving than that here.I worked my way out of the hole I found myself in, some are never quite so fortunate.If this lady was not working at all and failing to contribute anything toward the upkeep of her family I might(might) agree with you depending upon the circumstances, as it is she goes to work, what is your problem other than the amount of kids she has?

in the US being poor is a crime...:blues:
Seriously though, all capitalist societies need the poor to function.Without them, the economy would go belly up....

avatar4321
02-13-2007, 07:21 PM
Good for you and good luck to you, I hope you never have to eat those words.

Roomy, if I ever do it will because of my own actions. I wouldnt expect the government to bail me out.

You see I like freedom. And you arent free if you have to depend on others to get the things you want.

Roomy
02-13-2007, 07:23 PM
Roomy, the whole point is that the article is written so that you'll feel sorry for someone who has six kids (who get free meals five days a week), four dogs, and has a live-in babysitter, yet won't get off her ass long enough to clean her house, apply for public assistance housing, get her child support adjusted correctly, or go to the supermarket instead of the convenience store to buy groceries so she can buy more food. I don't feel particularly sorry for her, since she's made the choices to put herself in this situation. I would certainly try to help her improve her lot in life, but given her choices so far, I don't know that she would accept it.

No Jeff, that is the whole point of the article as far as you are concerned, not me.

avatar4321
02-13-2007, 07:24 PM
in the US being poor is a crime...:blues:
Seriously though, all capitalist societies need the poor to function.Without them, the economy would go belly up....

Idleness is the crime. Refusal to take responsibility. Being poor, hardly.

The whole point of capitalist systems is you dont have to remain poor.

Grumplestillskin
02-13-2007, 07:24 PM
The four dogs and convience store shopping are the parts that get me....

Grumplestillskin
02-13-2007, 07:25 PM
The whole point of capitalist systems is you dont have to remain poor.

Not what I said. I said the system needs the poor in order to work. Without them it wouldn't...

Roomy
02-13-2007, 07:25 PM
Roomy, if I ever do it will because of my own actions. I wouldnt expect the government to bail me out.

You see I like freedom. And you arent free if you have to depend on others to get the things you want.


Sometimes a kind word and a little charity go a long way mate, a harsh word can cripple a body, try to bear it in mind when making carte blanche statements and assumptions.

KitchenKitten99
02-13-2007, 07:27 PM
Sometimes a kind word and a little charity go a long way mate, a harsh word can cripple a body, try to bear it in mind when making carte blanche statements and assumptions.

ya know what...the old schoolyard rhyme works best in any situation: Sticks & Stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me.
In short: Grow a spine, get a helmet, and get to work!

jillian
02-13-2007, 07:28 PM
Roomy, the whole point is that the article is written so that you'll feel sorry for someone who has six kids (who get free meals five days a week), four dogs, and has a live-in babysitter, yet won't get off her ass long enough to clean her house, apply for public assistance housing, get her child support adjusted correctly, or go to the supermarket instead of the convenience store to buy groceries so she can buy more food. I don't feel particularly sorry for her, since she's made the choices to put herself in this situation. I would certainly try to help her improve her lot in life, but given her choices so far, I don't know that she would accept it.

Actually, I don't know what the point of the article was because of the running commentary. Now, I may have drawn some of the same conclusions, but instead of being able to read the article and draw those conclusions, I was treated to an editorialized version.

shattered
02-13-2007, 07:30 PM
I found myself unemployed many years ago with four small children a wife and a mortgage, I am thankful that the welfare state in britain is more forgiving than that here.<b>I worked my way out of the hole I found myself in</b>, some are never quite so fortunate.If this lady was not working at all and failing to contribute anything toward the upkeep of her family I might(might) agree with you depending upon the circumstances, as it is she goes to work, what is your problem other than the amount of kids she has?

There, my dear, is the key. You worked your way out of it. You didn't continue to make stupid decision on top of stupid decision, and THAT is the key to overcoming obstacles.

Is there any logic that you can see to her having the 4 dogs?

She works 6 hour days - that leaves another 2-6 hours a day she could be working at a second job, or looking for a BETTER job. Obviously time with her kids isn't an issue, since the job she does have has her away from home when they're around, and at home when they're not.

Probably one of the only comments I disagree with Roo's take on is the hot dog comment. They're cheap as hell, so why not buy them? It DOES cost more money to make healthier food choices. But, going to an actual grocery store instead of a convenience store will offset some of that cost.

Roomy
02-13-2007, 07:30 PM
ya know what...the old schoolyard rhyme works best in any situation: Sticks & Stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me.
In short: Grow a spine, get a helmet, and get to work!

You must be the breadwinner in your house?How does it feel?

shattered
02-13-2007, 07:31 PM
Actually, I don't know what the point of the article was because of the running commentary. Now, I may have drawn some of the same conclusions, but instead of being able to read the article and draw those conclusions, I was treated to an editorialized version.

The editorial was in blue - you don't have the ability to skip right over it and read the black and white portions?

jillian
02-13-2007, 07:33 PM
Idleness is the crime. Refusal to take responsibility. Being poor, hardly.

The whole point of capitalist systems is you dont have to remain poor.

Sorry...hit edit instead of quote. Apologies.

Idleness isn't a crime. Don't you mean "sin"?

Roomy
02-13-2007, 07:34 PM
There, my dear, is the key. You worked your way out of it. You didn't continue to make stupid decision on top of stupid decision, and THAT is the key to overcoming obstacles.

Is there any logic that you can see to her having the 4 dogs?

She works 6 hour days - that leaves another 2-6 hours a day she could be working at a second job, or looking for a BETTER job. Obviously time with her kids isn't an issue, since the job she does have has her away from home when they're around, and at home when they're not.

Probably one of the only comments I disagree with Roo's take on is the hot dog comment. They're cheap as hell, so why not buy them? It DOES cost more money to make healthier food choices. But, going to an actual grocery store instead of a convenience store will offset some of that cost.

I could parody roopuls thread and tear it to pieces, but I won't, I want everybodies words to stand as they are, hoping I never have to dredge them up and ram them into anyones face.

jillian
02-13-2007, 07:34 PM
The editorial was in blue - you don't have the ability to skip right over it and read the black and white portions?

I did, obviously. But why should I? I can draw my own conclusions and don't need anyone spoon feeding me their opinion as I read. It was kind of like the old Kevin Neelon SNL character .. .what was he called? Sublimino man??

Birdzeye
02-13-2007, 07:36 PM
Sometimes a kind word and a little charity go a long way mate, a harsh word can cripple a body, try to bear it in mind when making carte blanche statements and assumptions.

I agree. I'd also like to add that everyone should consider that, there but for the grace of God go I. You can work your butt off, make life comfortable for yourself and your family, and then lose everything in a strong hurricane like the people on the gulf coast. Or, you could get laid off in the middle of a recession and have difficulty finding another job - any job (been there, done that, no fun).

darin
02-13-2007, 07:36 PM
What struck me was the interviewer's attitude. This woman has probably been told so many times, and from so many sources, that she has it rough... no wonder she believes it. It's people like the liberal media who keep her down under the guise of sympathy. It's disgusting. Like a rapist telling a woman he really loves her.

You've nailed it, really. Somebody NEEDS to tell her 'Nobody is promised nor owed an easy life." If her ONE job can't pay her bills, she should get a second. Or third. This article describes a woman who probably isn't lazy - but who is expending energy inefficiently.

First thing - any child OF working age, SHOULD work.

Second thing - Go on a F'ing DIET. That'll save money

Third thing - Work more, hang out at homes 'less'. I can promise her kids will be better served by watching her struggle but provide, than by having her to snuggle.

shattered
02-13-2007, 07:37 PM
I did, obviously. But why should I? I can draw my own conclusions and don't need anyone spoon feeding me their opinion as I read. It was kind of like the old Kevin Neelon SNL character .. .what was he called? Sublimino man??

Well, obviously, you managed to muddle your way through it without too much undue hardship, since you're still here, so.. what IS your take on it?

darin
02-13-2007, 07:39 PM
I agree. I'd also like to add that everyone should consider that, there but for the grace of God go I. You can work your butt off, make life comfortable for yourself and your family, and then lose everything in a strong hurricane like the people on the gulf coast. Or, you could get laid off in the middle of a recession and have difficulty finding another job - any job (been there, done that, no fun).


That's only partially true. If I lost my job tomorrow, I'd have a good cry on Thursday. On Friday I'd start looking for work. Within a week or two I'd HAVE work - maybe not what I wanted to do, but something I 'could' do. My wife would also find employment. I bet between the two of us, doing odd-jobs even (Cleaning office buildings, delivering newspapers, etc) we could make as much or MORE than I do now, as the sole bread-winner. We'd definitely have to work HARDER...but again, nobody said life should be anything but hard.

Nobody lost 'everything' from the hurricane as long as they had their wits, their health, and proper motivation to FIX things.

Roomy
02-13-2007, 07:40 PM
You've nailed it, really. Somebody NEEDS to tell her 'Nobody is promised nor owed an easy life." If her ONE job can't pay her bills, she should get a second. Or third. This article describes a woman who probably isn't lazy - but who is expending energy inefficiently.

First thing - any child OF working age, SHOULD work.

Second thing - Go on a F'ing DIET. That'll save money

Third thing - Work more, hang out at homes 'less'. I can promise her kids will be better served by watching her struggle but provide, than by having her to snuggle.


You never disappoint.:wink2:

Birdzeye
02-13-2007, 07:46 PM
That's only partially true. If I lost my job tomorrow, I'd have a good cry on Thursday. On Friday I'd start looking for work. Within a week or two I'd HAVE work - maybe not what I wanted to do, but something I 'could' do. My wife would also find employment. I bet between the two of us, doing odd-jobs even (Cleaning office buildings, delivering newspapers, etc) we could make as much or MORE than I do now, as the sole bread-winner. We'd definitely have to work HARDER...but again, nobody said life should be anything but hard.

Nobody lost 'everything' from the hurricane as long as they had their wits, their health, and proper motivation to FIX things.

Then you're overly optimistic. When I lost my job in '75, in the middle of a recession, I was confident that I'd find another job within a month. Eight months later, after a lot of looking, I finally found something, a job for which I was overqualified. That was the other issue; I applied for jobs that required fewer skills than I had, and was routinely turned down for being "overqualified."

And yes, people in the gulf coast literally lost everything, their homes, their belongings - everything! Even those who had their wits about them had a hard time starting from scratch, after a traumatic experience like that.

I hope if you ever are in such a situation (God forbid), that people will be kinder to you than you are to those who have had devastating losses.

Roomy
02-13-2007, 07:50 PM
That's only partially true. If I lost my job tomorrow, I'd have a good cry on Thursday. On Friday I'd start looking for work. Within a week or two I'd HAVE work - maybe not what I wanted to do, but something I 'could' do. My wife would also find employment. I bet between the two of us, doing odd-jobs even (Cleaning office buildings, delivering newspapers, etc) we could make as much or MORE than I do now, as the sole bread-winner. We'd definitely have to work HARDER...but again, nobody said life should be anything but hard.

Nobody lost 'everything' from the hurricane as long as they had their wits, their health, and proper motivation to FIX things.

Send her to work, deliver some newspapers and clean some offices together, get rich quick.

KitchenKitten99
02-13-2007, 07:52 PM
You must be the breadwinner in your house?How does it feel?

um, actually I am a stay-at-home mom, but I do in-home daycare for 2 families, so I make a whopping $11k/year. My sweet, hardworking husband is the breadwinner, and has skills he can take anywhere. I have various office/retail/restaurant skills dating back to age 14 (i'm 26 now). Neither of us has any college education. We have two kids, a nice house in a perfect location (my opinion), two cars that are paid for, and less than $5k in credit card debt. We worked for everything we have. My oldest had to go to daycare for the first 3 years of his life, up until last fall, but we had to sacrifice so we could buy my grandparents' house when they retired. I worked jobs that I hated. I am just not cut out to work for other people or under other people. It felt so good to put in my notice at work without worrying about finding another to replace it. I am happiest raising my two kids and helping some parents raise theirs, and working a side business as a Pure Romance consultant for fun money and guaranteed time out of the house.

My point: It took a lot of work and sacrifice and money, to get where we are now. I have a 5 year plan to open my own bridal shop once my youngest is in school, providing we still only have 2 kids. This will take time, money, and sacrifice again. But I will accomplish it if I really want it. Again, I have no college education, and neither does my husband. Yet he makes more per year than the average college graduate in an entry-level position.

darin
02-13-2007, 07:58 PM
Then you're overly optimistic. When I lost my job in '75, in the middle of a recession, I was confident that I'd find another job within a month. Eight months later, after a lot of looking, I finally found something, a job for which I was overqualified. That was the other issue; I applied for jobs that required fewer skills than I had, and was routinely turned down for being "overqualified."

And yes, people in the gulf coast literally lost everything, their homes, their belongings - everything! Even those who had their wits about them had a hard time starting from scratch, after a traumatic experience like that.

I hope if you ever are in such a situation (God forbid), that people will be kinder to you than you are to those who have had devastating losses.



I'm not optimistic - I'm realistic. If you waited eight months to get a job, that's on you. Didn't you have fast-food places? I could probably give a by-name-list of more than 100 people I've known who came to this country without so much as the ability to speak English. Those people, by working two or three jobs have today become 6-figure-income folks. I refuse to think they are more-capable than I, who grew up here.

You didn't work for 8 months probably because you wouldn't take 'a' job. You were waiting for 'the' job? Maybe?

Those who lost "everything" (which I debate) can still LEAVE and find work elsewhere. The fact is, they chose to stay in a place w/ few jobs and junk.

KitchenKitten99
02-13-2007, 08:03 PM
I'm not optimistic - I'm realistic. If you waited eight months to get a job, that's on you. Didn't you have fast-food places? I could probably give a by-name-list of more than 100 people I've known who came to this country without so much as the ability to speak English. Those people, by working two or three jobs have today become 6-figure-income folks. I refuse to think they are more-capable than I, who grew up here.

You didn't work for 8 months probably because you wouldn't take 'a' job. You were waiting for 'the' job? Maybe?

Those who lost "everything" (which I debate) can still LEAVE and find work elsewhere. The fact is, they chose to stay in a place w/ few jobs and junk.

my first job was a fast food place. McDonalds. I stayed thru high school, then for 2 years after as a 2nd job to help pay for our wedding. I actually was sad to leave it because I kind of enjoyed it, but I wasn't going to be able to make much more unless I wanted to become a FT manager, and I wasn't interested because my main job paid more FT. McDonalds was one of the most fun jobs I have ever worked. But, didn't need 2nd job after marriage, and I was sick of working 6 days/wk.

I would go back in a heartbeat if I had to.

Nienna
02-13-2007, 08:20 PM
You've nailed it, really. Somebody NEEDS to tell her 'Nobody is promised nor owed an easy life." If her ONE job can't pay her bills, she should get a second. Or third. This article describes a woman who probably isn't lazy - but who is expending energy inefficiently.

First thing - any child OF working age, SHOULD work.

Second thing - Go on a F'ing DIET. That'll save money

Third thing - Work more, hang out at homes 'less'. I can promise her kids will be better served by watching her struggle but provide, than by having her to snuggle.



Exactly... she seems to have no clue that the choices she made and continues to make are what's keeping her down. There are times when sympathy is not the kindest thing. (I have had to learn that the hard way.) Not saying she needs criticism or harshness, or even saying that she shouldn't take ANY sort of assistance. But the way in which she is managing her resources is guaranteed to keep her down. Instead of calling for minimum wage raises, which only hurt the economy in general, this reporter should be calling for resource management lessons. She needs education, not petting.

trobinett
02-13-2007, 08:24 PM
Roomy, YOU, and people like YOU, are the REASON for this woman, and the situation she has placed HERSELF in.

How do YOU feel?

jackass
02-13-2007, 08:24 PM
I could parody roopuls thread and tear it to pieces,

Actually I was going to ask you to do just what he did. Let us see what you get out of the article.

jillian
02-13-2007, 09:14 PM
Well, obviously, you managed to muddle your way through it without too much undue hardship, since you're still here, so.. what IS your take on it?

No, love, I never muddle. My take is that we're dealing with an ignorant woman who hasn't a clue about how to manage her life. Do I think she should have had 6 kids? Nope. But I also am not uneducated and I have life skills that were taught me by my parents; I wasn't raised in poverty; I went to college and law school while I worked (though I didn't put myself through college... working was for my spending money).

In other words... sounds to me like Darin hit on something when he said "someone should tell her...". Someone should. No one ever has. And, yes, some people raised in poverty can summon up all the strength in their character and make a life and rise above Not everyone can. I don't belive in hand-outs for those people. I believe in giving them a leg up. You know... classes, job training, etc.

I see her as someone who would fit very nicely into the show My Name is Earl.

What I think is that she's ignorant and needs guidence, not derision. (The dogs and convenience store shopping, notwithstanding). Not all of us are so lucky as to have had parents who could teach us and pass along values.

I think, also, that sometimes people get kicked really hard and become debilitated. It then becomes difficult to function on a day to day basis.

Oh yeah...and I think that societies are judged by how they treat their oldest, their weakest and their poorest.

I'm sure you can muddle through that. ;)

CockySOB
02-13-2007, 09:31 PM
Is it her fault or the systems?Accidents do happen repeatedly btw.

In this world, only we can be responsible for ourselves. She is responsible for her own decisions, not "the system." "The system" is a cop-out for those who want to absolve themselves of responsibility and/or accountability.

Birdzeye
02-13-2007, 09:32 PM
I'm not optimistic - I'm realistic. If you waited eight months to get a job, that's on you. Didn't you have fast-food places? I could probably give a by-name-list of more than 100 people I've known who came to this country without so much as the ability to speak English. Those people, by working two or three jobs have today become 6-figure-income folks. I refuse to think they are more-capable than I, who grew up here.

You didn't work for 8 months probably because you wouldn't take 'a' job. You were waiting for 'the' job? Maybe?

Those who lost "everything" (which I debate) can still LEAVE and find work elsewhere. The fact is, they chose to stay in a place w/ few jobs and junk.

You have a lot of nerve to say those things to me! I didn't work for eight months because I didn't get ANY job offers! Remember what I said; a recession was going on at the time!

I looked and looked and applied and interviewed.

When I finally got a job offer, it wasn't in my professional field but a secretarial job. I took it.

Your apology is accepted.

Dilloduck
02-13-2007, 09:34 PM
No, love, I never muddle. My take is that we're dealing with an ignorant woman who hasn't a clue about how to manage her life. Do I think she should have had 6 kids? Nope. But I also am not uneducated and I have life skills that were taught me by my parents; I wasn't raised in poverty; I went to college and law school while I worked (though I didn't put myself through college... working was for my spending money).

In other words... sounds to me like Darin hit on something when he said "someone should tell her...". Someone should. No one ever has. And, yes, some people raised in poverty can summon up all the strength in their character and make a life and rise above Not everyone can. I don't belive in hand-outs for those people. I believe in giving them a leg up. You know... classes, job training, etc.

I see her as someone who would fit very nicely into the show My Name is Earl.

What I think is that she's ignorant and needs guidence, not derision. (The dogs and convenience store shopping, notwithstanding). Not all of us are so lucky as to have had parents who could teach us and pass along values.

I think, also, that sometimes people get kicked really hard and become debilitated. It then becomes difficult to function on a day to day basis.

Oh yeah...and I think that societies are judged by how they treat their oldest, their weakest and their poorest.

I'm sure you can muddle through that. ;)

Who judges societies that way?

CockySOB
02-13-2007, 09:40 PM
in the US being poor is a crime...:blues:
Seriously though, all capitalist societies need the poor to function.Without them, the economy would go belly up....

Thank you for lowering the IQ of everyone who read that post. You sir, are a fool.

avatar4321
02-13-2007, 09:42 PM
Exactly... she seems to have no clue that the choices she made and continues to make are what's keeping her down. There are times when sympathy is not the kindest thing. (I have had to learn that the hard way.) Not saying she needs criticism or harshness, or even saying that she shouldn't take ANY sort of assistance. But the way in which she is managing her resources is guaranteed to keep her down. Instead of calling for minimum wage raises, which only hurt the economy in general, this reporter should be calling for resource management lessons. She needs education, not petting.

Which is exactly what we have all been saying. I don't know what this is such a difficult concept for some people. We provide so many opportunities for those who are poor and disadvantaged to do better for themselves. Heck I know I still qualify as poor and disadvantaged. There are plenty of things I don't have that I would love to have. But you have to learn to prioritize. And the first priority is always survival. I am dumbfounded at people who appear to make absolutely no effort on their own behalf, especially when there at steps she can easily take.

1)Sell the dogs. That will save tons of money there.
2)Stop paying child support for kids who have the power to work on their own.
3)Fill out the piece of paper she needs to get housing.
4)Shop around for good prices on food.
5)Have both adults get jobs, or atleast get the second one a part time job during the day when the kids are at school and dont need to be looked over. or alternate times so when one is at work the other is at home with the kids.

Those are just a few of the things that this mother could clearly do to put herself in a better position. And alot of it is just common sense.

And far from picking on the poor, I was saying the same things when Mike Tyson went bankrupt. Instead of declaring bankrupcy why shouldnt he just sell the stupid freaking tigers that are draining so much of his funds or buy a smaller house. its ridiculous.

manu1959
02-13-2007, 09:46 PM
3 adults in one and one $6 /hr job between them....

what the 15 year old can't baby sit?

she is afraid to walk through the neighborhood but sends her kids to the store alone

4 dogs!

YEP LOOKS LIKE SOCIETIES FAULT TO ME

darin
02-13-2007, 09:52 PM
You have a lot of nerve to say those things to me! I didn't work for eight months because I didn't get ANY job offers! Remember what I said; a recession was going on at the time!

I looked and looked and applied and interviewed.

When I finally got a job offer, it wasn't in my professional field but a secretarial job. I took it.

Your apology is accepted.


You didn't look hard enough, or you refused to work in certain areas. That's fact. McDonalds would probably have hired you to be a store manager? Ask them? What about delivering newspapers? Enlisting in the Military? MANY options.

I'll never apologize for honest commentary based on what I read.

avatar4321
02-13-2007, 09:56 PM
3 adults in one and one $6 /hr job between them....

what the 15 year old can't baby sit?

she is afraid to walk through the neighborhood but sends her kids to the store alone

4 dogs!

YEP LOOKS LIKE SOCIETIES FAULT TO ME

The 18 and 15 year old dont even live with them. They live with the father who is collecting child support from her.

avatar4321
02-13-2007, 09:57 PM
Roo do you have a link to the text you posted?

Birdzeye
02-13-2007, 09:59 PM
You didn't look hard enough, or you refused to work in certain areas. That's fact. McDonalds would probably have hired you to be a store manager? Ask them? What about delivering newspapers? Enlisting in the Military? MANY options.

I'll never apologize for honest commentary based on what I read.

Hey, bub, I wasn't the only one who spent MONTHS looking for a job EVERYWHERE. That's pretty common during a recession. There is tremendous competition for even menial jobs at those times.

At the time I also was involved with a self help group for unemployed professionals, and many of them were unemployed for as long as I was, even longer, in some cases.

It's time you disabused yourself of the fairy tale that pulling yourself up by the bootstraps will magically yield results quickly, because that's just out of touch with reality.

:upyours:

manu1959
02-13-2007, 10:00 PM
The 18 and 15 year old dont even live with them. They live with the father who is collecting child support from her.

even worse.........

shattered
02-13-2007, 10:00 PM
Roo do you have a link to the text you posted?

Google is our friend...

http://www.charleston.net/assets/webPages/departmental/news/Stories.aspx?section=localnews&tableId=130028&pubDate=2/11/2007

OCA
02-13-2007, 10:00 PM
This is unfuckingbelievable.

Nobody but nobody can make the claim as to be so friggin ignorant that they make this many horrible life decisions. She has made so many that I don't even know where to start. She has had so many opportunities to better herself financially and domestically but refused to take advantage of them that at this point I don't think she deserves any job training opportunities etc. etc.

This lady simply refuses to go out and get things done, she simply refuses to do whatever it takes to better the situation and because of that I don't think its society's responsibility to deal with her. The kids should be taken away pronto, I mean they didn't desrve to be born to a whore mother who couldn't take care of #1 much less #'s 2,3,4,5 and 6, they should be moved out of a house that by all accounts is not fit for haqbitation and put somewhere where they have a fighting chance at success.

Oh this irks the hell out of me, the sister...........dammit! She's the exact reason the welfare state needs to be abolished, if you have no safety net to fall back on and your survival instincts are stronmg you'll get your ass a job and pay your own way....if not.......well Darwin, survival of the fittest, I have no problem stepping around non-hackers on the street.

Dilloduck
02-13-2007, 10:00 PM
3 adults in one and one $6 /hr job between them....

what the 15 year old can't baby sit?

she is afraid to walk through the neighborhood but sends her kids to the store alone

4 dogs!

YEP LOOKS LIKE SOCIETIES FAULT TO ME


The whiney poor ARE a whole segment of society, encouraged to continue thier ways by bleeding hearts and others who have NO real idea how to help a person. I would like to contrast them to those who have even less and are happy than some of the most "affluent" in the world. The happy "poor" make such a shitty story tho.

OCA
02-13-2007, 10:02 PM
Hey, bub, I wasn't the only one who spent MONTHS looking for a job EVERYWHERE. That's pretty common during a recession. There is tremendous competition for even menial jobs at those times.

At the time I also was involved with a self help group for unemployed professionals, and many of them were unemployed for as long as I was, even longer, in some cases.

It's time you disabused yourself of the fairy tale that pulling yourself up by the bootstraps will magically yield results quickly, because that's just out of touch with reality.

:upyours:

Think if you had spent the time you spent with the, lol, "self help group" putting out more resumes you might've got results quicker?

I've already got you pegged, your job search was about status instead of a job.

manu1959
02-13-2007, 10:06 PM
*gets up refills wine glass, puts up feet, gets ready for show*

jackass
02-13-2007, 10:13 PM
*gets up refills wine glass, puts up feet, gets ready for show*

Hahahaha!

avatar4321
02-13-2007, 10:21 PM
This is unfuckingbelievable.

Nobody but nobody can make the claim as to be so friggin ignorant that they make this many horrible life decisions. She has made so many that I don't even know where to start. She has had so many opportunities to better herself financially and domestically but refused to take advantage of them that at this point I don't think she deserves any job training opportunities etc. etc.

This lady simply refuses to go out and get things done, she simply refuses to do whatever it takes to better the situation and because of that I don't think its society's responsibility to deal with her. The kids should be taken away pronto, I mean they didn't desrve to be born to a whore mother who couldn't take care of #1 much less #'s 2,3,4,5 and 6, they should be moved out of a house that by all accounts is not fit for haqbitation and put somewhere where they have a fighting chance at success.

Oh this irks the hell out of me, the sister...........dammit! She's the exact reason the welfare state needs to be abolished, if you have no safety net to fall back on and your survival instincts are stronmg you'll get your ass a job and pay your own way....if not.......well Darwin, survival of the fittest, I have no problem stepping around non-hackers on the street.

Id offer her more training, not because she deserves it, i dont think she does, but those kids deserve something far better.

OCA
02-13-2007, 10:28 PM
Id offer her more training, not because she deserves it, i dont think she does, but those kids deserve something far better.

She would probably say yes to more training then not show up for classes.

shattered
02-13-2007, 10:31 PM
In one house..

4 children
1 niece
2 nephews
1 sister
4 dogs
Herself.

I'd say it's pretty well time to clean house.

Birdzeye
02-13-2007, 10:40 PM
Think if you had spent the time you spent with the, lol, "self help group" putting out more resumes you might've got results quicker?

I've already got you pegged, your job search was about status instead of a job.


What a crock. The "self help" group was people who were unemployed and spent a couple of hours per week working on finding job leads. I got a few leads from the group, but none resulted in job offers.

I considered the small amount of time I spent on the group an investment in my efforts to find a job.

I hope you never are in the same boat, because you'll be in for a rude awakening as to how long it may take to find a job - any job, especially during a recession.

I did everything I could to find a job - any job. There's no way I could have done more, because looking for a job during my unemployment was, in fact, a full time job.

:upyours:

KitchenKitten99
02-13-2007, 10:43 PM
i notice how after roomy assumed I was the breadwinner in the family and I shot it down by telling him that I make less than min wage, he hasn't answered to that. ironic.

Yurt
02-13-2007, 10:45 PM
Your abuse of the poor speaks volumes of you, I don't like you already, please change my mind.

Conclusory. No evidence. How brilliant. Why don't you, who made the claim, show how he "abused" the poor.

KitchenKitten99
02-13-2007, 10:46 PM
What a crock. The "self help" group was people who were unemployed and spent a couple of hours per week working on finding job leads. I got a few leads from the group, but none resulted in job offers.

I considered the small amount of time I spent on the group an investment in my efforts to find a job.

I hope you never are in the same boat, because you'll be in for a rude awakening as to how long it may take to find a job - any job, especially during a recession.

I did everything I could to find a job - any job. There's no way I could have done more, because looking for a job during my unemployment was, in fact, a full time job.

:upyours:

i have been in the unemployment status before, and yet I never needed some pansy self-help group to help me find a job. The idea of a 'group of people' defeats the definition of 'self help'.

shattered
02-13-2007, 10:47 PM
i notice how after roomy assumed I was the breadwinner in the family and I shot it down by telling him that I make less than min wage, he hasn't answered to that. ironic.

My guess would be because he logged off before you posted your reply, and hasn't been back since..

darin
02-13-2007, 10:52 PM
Hey, bub, I wasn't the only one who spent MONTHS looking for a job EVERYWHERE. That's pretty common during a recession. There is tremendous competition for even menial jobs at those times.

At the time I also was involved with a self help group for unemployed professionals, and many of them were unemployed for as long as I was, even longer, in some cases.

It's time you disabused yourself of the fairy tale that pulling yourself up by the bootstraps will magically yield results quickly, because that's just out of touch with reality.

:upyours:


Funny - were you born here? Did you speak english as a child? I know of people here less than HALF the time you were out of work who seemed to make ends meet. IMO, you simply wanted 'THE' job. I bet construction yards were hiring...or newspapers. :)

manu1959
02-13-2007, 10:56 PM
wow....boo hoo....sept 11 1994....broke my leg, company went bk, fiance' left me.....

dec 15 1994....new job....

in case anyone remembers the the construction industry had tanked and we were in a recession....

avatar4321
02-13-2007, 10:59 PM
You know, early i said this woman isn't a victim. Ive changed my mind. She is a victim.

She is a victim of liberals. She is being used by them as propaganda to encourage this minimum wage hike. Will raising the minimum wage increase help her at all? No. It wont. More likely it's going to hurt her by the raising cost of goods, making the job market scarce and making it more likely that she will lose said job.

What will this MW hike do? It will hurt the economy and the poor. But dang it if it wont make those liberal politicians look like they are helping the little guy. They look compassionate. In reality, they are doing nothing for the poor except possibly making them worse off. They could make the minimum wage $100 an hour and it wont change anything. Because the market will rebalance itself and put them in an even worse spot than they are now.

So yes, she is a victim of liberal politicians and the liberal media forcing this propaganda on people to pretend that they are compassionate. The real compassionate people are the ones who would teach her how to be self sufficient. They would teach her the things she had to do to help herself, and more importantly help her children. They would actually do something to fix the problem rather than pretending to do something to score political points. You see politicians dont want to fix problems. If they fix problems, they have no issues to run on. Instead, they will pretend to fix problems with methods that usually only make the problems worse.

The author of this article should be ashamed of herself. How do you see someone live like that and not try to help them help themselves? Of course, it still depends on the mother acting accordingly to help herself. That is the only way you can support yourself, with your own work. Ironically those of us teaching this true principle are the ones who are looked upon as compassionate. Well excuse me for actually wanting to see the problem fixed.

Yurt
02-13-2007, 11:00 PM
I am trying to prove my point by raising as many absurd assumptions as you lot on this topic, I am not surprised it has flown way above the radar.Seriously, I am beginning to lose heart here, one thing after another, if trampling over weakest in society becomes an olympic event we have an abundance of medal hopefuls here, shame.

Where is your proof for this? Look at the thread starter, he grew up in that environment. Guess what, 4-7th grade I too lived in those conditions due to a divorce. On welfare, ate free government food handed out every two weeks downtown Eureka, etc.. Pfft... My mom went to school and got her BA then her MA and by the 9th grade I no longer considered myself "poor". Sure she had minimum wage jobs while in school, but she choose to better herself. Not everyone has to go to school, just better yourself and not repeat the same things that keep you in the environment. Wait:

If you want to stay in the environment, fine. I have no problem with that. But you are not a victim.

The question then becomes:

At which point is society responsible for the actions of others? My experience was the result of divorce and a dad who bailed. This women keeps doing the same, same, same thing.

At what point roomy?

OCA
02-13-2007, 11:01 PM
What a crock. The "self help" group was people who were unemployed and spent a couple of hours per week working on finding job leads. I got a few leads from the group, but none resulted in job offers.

I considered the small amount of time I spent on the group an investment in my efforts to find a job.

I hope you never are in the same boat, because you'll be in for a rude awakening as to how long it may take to find a job - any job, especially during a recession.

I did everything I could to find a job - any job. There's no way I could have done more, because looking for a job during my unemployment was, in fact, a full time job.

:upyours:

Lol you know I got you pegged, that is unless no convenience stores, fast food joints, horse barns that needed stall cleaners, gas stations, grocery stores etc. etc. etc. were hiring.....which we all know is bullshit recession or no recession. You simply looked at menial labor as being beneath you.

Got a friend like you, he drives an old model 730 series BMW that gives him fits, works in real estate, called him two days ago and his home phone is disconnected, his cell phone says it currently is not accepting incoming phone calls which we all know what that means.....oh he's married with two kids. So I finally get ahold of him through his parents and he says he's just hit a rough patch, rough patch my ass because his cousin told me he's closed only two deals in the last year! I tell him he needs to get off the commission train and get a steady income(he's got a 4 yr degree) especially with the two kids and all, he tells me that it will be ok things will get better lol. Well rather than get into a long song and dance lets say his work habits aren't the most industrious lol.

You see its all about status with him, it looks good to have R.A. agent next to his name and drive the BMW but if it ain't bringing trhe cash what good is it?

In your case bird I would've shoveled shit rather than go on unemployment or go to a self help group...correct me if i'm wrong for assuming you colected unemployment.

avatar4321
02-13-2007, 11:02 PM
Isn't it amazing that millions upon millions of illegal aliens can live in this country and actually survive easily on LESS than minimum wage very often and while sending alot of their money back to their families in Mexico?

Yurt
02-13-2007, 11:07 PM
You never disappoint.:wink2:


I know, his threads always have stuff like, hmmm, oh, facts, opinions, well reasoned responses, you know, stuff that backs posts up. Yours seem to be mostly weenie one liners.

:wink2:

Yurt
02-13-2007, 11:15 PM
Isn't it amazing that millions upon millions of illegal aliens can live in this country and actually survive easily on LESS than minimum wage very often and while sending alot of their money back to their families in Mexico?

Hmmm, I don't see how there is any room(y) for argument on this.

Birdzeye
02-13-2007, 11:20 PM
Funny - were you born here? Did you speak english as a child? I know of people here less than HALF the time you were out of work who seemed to make ends meet. IMO, you simply wanted 'THE' job. I bet construction yards were hiring...or newspapers. :)

Yes, I was born here, and English is my first language. I also speak Spanish pretty well, as the result of having spent part of my childhood living in Latin America. That's one language more than most Americans speak.

I also know people who had to make ends meet, without a job, for longer than I was unemployed.

I think I've already said that I explored all possibilities, taking into consideration my skills, which were, IMO, nothing to sneeze at.

To suggest that anybody who doesn't get a job offer after, say, four weeks of searching, is not seriously looking or is not considering all possibilities is not only asinine, but out of touch with reality.

shattered
02-13-2007, 11:26 PM
Yes, I was born here, and English is my first language. I also speak Spanish pretty well, as the result of having spent part of my childhood living in Latin America. That's one language more than most Americans speak.

I also know people who had to make ends meet, without a job, for longer than I was unemployed.

<b>I think I've already said that I explored all possibilities, taking into consideration my skills, which were, IMO, nothing to sneeze at.</b>

To suggest that anybody who doesn't get a job offer after, say, four weeks of searching, is not seriously looking or is not considering all possibilities is not only asinine, but out of touch with reality.

What they're saying, and I agree, is that skills, or no skills, there was *something* available. My guess would be that you probably made more on unemployment than a McDonalds job would have paid, so you "kept looking". Even in a recession, there are jobs available, which require no skills at all...

Gunny
02-13-2007, 11:30 PM
Is it her fault or the systems?Accidents do happen repeatedly btw.

The disenfranchised are in a hole they find impossible to climb out of.I am so pleased you are privileged enough not to know how it feels to be her or one of the millions like her and worse.If it makes anyone happy to denegrate these people it only serves to make me wonder about them.

Horsefeathers. I grew up pretty-damned poor and I didn't let it slow me down one bit. Matter of fact, it just made me more determined to rise above it.

Can't say I'm wealthy, but I'm not doing without, and I EARNED where I am.

That "disenfranchised" stuff is a load of bull. You can be whatever you've got big enough stones to be.

CockySOB
02-13-2007, 11:38 PM
I seem to recall some bluster about "jobs Americans won't do..." as we discussed illegal border crossings. Seems the same mentality which "enables" illegal border crossers also "enables" some citizens to believe they are above cleaning a grease pit or washing dishes.

Grumplestillskin
02-13-2007, 11:41 PM
Thank you for lowering the IQ of everyone who read that post. You sir, are a fool.

Hello Mr Kettle, I'm Mr Pot...

CockySOB
02-13-2007, 11:41 PM
Horsefeathers. I grew up pretty-damned poor and I didn't let it slow me down one bit. Matter of fact, it just made me more determined to rise above it.

Can't say I'm wealthy, but I'm not doing without, and I EARNED where I am.

That "disenfranchised" stuff is a load of bull. You can be whatever you've got big enough stones to be.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Gunny again.

shattered
02-13-2007, 11:41 PM
I seem to recall some bluster about "jobs Americans won't do..." as we discussed illegal border crossings. Seems the same mentality which "enables" illegal border crossers also "enables" some citizens to believe they are above cleaning a grease pit or washing dishes.

Is that where "skills that are nothing to sneeze at" come into play, or is the fact that someone has to do those jobs somehow the "fault of the system"?

Gunny
02-13-2007, 11:44 PM
I seem to recall some bluster about "jobs Americans won't do..." as we discussed illegal border crossings. Seems the same mentality which "enables" illegal border crossers also "enables" some citizens to believe they are above cleaning a grease pit or washing dishes.

Done both, back in the day. Not to mention pumping gas, cooking, bouncing, delivering pizza, painting and roofing houses .... it's there .. you just have to go get it.

OCA
02-13-2007, 11:44 PM
I seem to recall some bluster about "jobs Americans won't do..." as we discussed illegal border crossings. Seems the same mentality which "enables" illegal border crossers also "enables" some citizens to believe they are above cleaning a grease pit or washing dishes.

And to think alot of people think i'm dead wrong when I say there are jobs that American simply won't do.:wink2:

Gunny
02-13-2007, 11:47 PM
Is that where "skills that are nothing to sneeze at" come into play, or is the fact that someone has to do those jobs somehow the "fault of the system"?

The fact that people think they are above those jobs is the fault of the system. Face it, there're plenty of dumbasses out there, and kids just getting started who aren't qualified to do more than rudimentary, low-skill jobs.

CockySOB
02-13-2007, 11:48 PM
Hello Mr Kettle, I'm Mr Pot...

Go read a book on capitalism that isn't authored by a socialist or communist. Capitalism doesn't require a poor underclass as you assert. Capitalism thrives when wealth (value) is continually created at all levels of society. And your comment had no relevance to the OP, did it? Unless you are simply trying to assert that it is our capitalistic society which is to blame for the woman in question making numerous bad decisions which put her children and her in financial problems.

Now if you can connect the dots between the OP and your post, I'd be happy to reconsider my statement. But until then I stand by my statement that your post lowers the IQ of everyone who actually read it.

Gunny
02-13-2007, 11:48 PM
And to think alot of people think i'm dead wrong when I say there are jobs that American simply won't do.:wink2:

There are jobs that Americans brought up with the welfare-state mentality think they're too good to do.

Grumplestillskin
02-13-2007, 11:48 PM
The fact that people think they are above those jobs is the fault of the system. Face it, there're plenty of dumbasses out there, and kids just getting started who aren't qualified to do more than rudimentary, low-skill jobs.

I also think that a lot of kids these days see the Paris Hilton's and all the other spoilt rich kids and they think they are owed big time, or that their "time" will come. Things like pumping gas and working in fast food outlets is way above them....

shattered
02-13-2007, 11:50 PM
The fact that people think they are above those jobs is the fault of the system. Face it, there're plenty of dumbasses out there, and kids just getting started who aren't qualified to do more than rudimentary, low-skill jobs.

Too bad some of the worst jobs in the world pay pretty good money.. Why? Because nobody wants to DO them, as there's no bragging rights, and it's beneath them.

Any idea how much pulling sausage meat out of casings that didn't form right in the machines paid 20 years ago? $11.50 an hour. How do I know? Because I was 18, just barely on my own, and wanted better for myself than the life I left.

OCA
02-13-2007, 11:51 PM
There are jobs that Americans brought up with the welfare-state mentality think they're too good to do.

And my friend that has been my point all along:)

Gunny
02-13-2007, 11:52 PM
I also think that a lot of kids these days see the Paris Hilton's and all the other spoilt rich kids and they think they are owed big time, or that their "time" will come. Things like pumping gas and working in fast food outlets is way above them....

LOL ... I don't think "pumping gas" is an option here anymore.

Gunny
02-13-2007, 11:53 PM
Too bad some of the worst jobs in the world pay pretty good money.. Why? Because nobody wants to DO them, as there's no bragging rights, and it's beneath them.

Any idea how much pulling sausage meat out of casings that didn't form right in the machines paid 20 years ago? $11.50 an hour. How do I know? Because I was 18, just barely on my own, and wanted better for myself than the life I left.

I make over $20 an hour (in Texas dollars which is pretty damned good) to do contruction work as an electrician. I get over being dirty every Friday on the way to the bank.

Gunny
02-13-2007, 11:55 PM
And my friend that has been my point all along:)

I don't disagree with your point, per se; rather, your solution. My solution is make these welfare-state deadbeats do the jobs and earn their handout. Maybe if they have to bust balls for a welfare check, they might just get the idea that getting a job on their own might pay better and be easier on the back.

Grumplestillskin
02-13-2007, 11:55 PM
Go read a book on capitalism that isn't authored by a socialist or communist. Capitalism doesn't require a poor underclass as you assert. Capitalism thrives when wealth (value) is continually created at all levels of society. And your comment had no relevance to the OP, did it? Unless you are simply trying to assert that it is our capitalistic society which is to blame for the woman in question making numerous bad decisions which put her children and her in financial problems.

Now if you can connect the dots between the OP and your post, I'd be happy to reconsider my statement. But until then I stand by my statement that your post lowers the IQ of everyone who actually read it.


Economics is about supply and demand. Let's say every person in a capitalist soceity is rich. There are no poor. You know what inflation is, right? You figure it out. The poor keep inflation down because they cant' afford the big items. If they could, prices would go through the roof. If everybody could afford to pay $6 a pound for peaches the prices would go up until the guy doing the selling reached a threshold that would lead to hyperinflation. Capitalism thrives on scarcity. If everybody is rich there is no scarcity because everybody can afford everything - unless there is not enough to go around - and with certain commodities there isn't.
You have said one thing correct that capitalism thrives at ALL levels of society. It needs those levels to survive. WIthout it you would have hyperinflation. So before you open your cocky gob, think about things before you flame people. Being cocky doesn't give you the right to be a dick, but feel free to carry on. I'd put my IQ up against yours any day of the week...:2up:

Going by the article, the vast majority of the woman's problems lie at her own feet.

shattered
02-13-2007, 11:56 PM
I make over $20 an hour (in Texas dollars which is pretty damned good) to do contruction work as an electrician. <b>I get over being dirty every Friday on the way to the bank.</b>

Funny how that works...

Grumplestillskin
02-13-2007, 11:56 PM
LOL ... I don't think "pumping gas" is an option here anymore.

Well, around here 95% of those jobs are done by immigrants - mainly SE Asians and Indians...

shattered
02-13-2007, 11:58 PM
Who the hell pumps gas? People working gas stations sit on little stools behind 6" of bulletproof glass collecting money.

CockySOB
02-13-2007, 11:58 PM
Is that where "skills that are nothing to sneeze at" come into play, or is the fact that someone has to do those jobs somehow the "fault of the system"?

1) Anyone with any skills can find a job. The job may not make use of your skill set, but there are always jobs out there.

2) It's easier for some people to say that they couldn't find a job and then collect their government welfare check. And at the same time, we have some people claiming that illegal border crossers aren't taking any jobs from Americans. Well DUH! Why should our welfare beneficiaries work when they can collect unemployment and possibly even disability despite the fact they are perfectly healthy and capable of working at the local greasy spoon? It all comes down to decisions made, and being accountable for those decisions.

3) As I said before, anyone blaming "the system" is a weak-willed, self-absorbed and irresponsible shadow of a human being.

Gunny
02-14-2007, 12:00 AM
Funny how that works...

:D

Birdzeye
02-14-2007, 12:01 AM
Lol you know I got you pegged, that is unless no convenience stores, fast food joints, horse barns that needed stall cleaners, gas stations, grocery stores etc. etc. etc. were hiring.....which we all know is bullshit recession or no recession. You simply looked at menial labor as being beneath you.

Got a friend like you, he drives an old model 730 series BMW that gives him fits, works in real estate, called him two days ago and his home phone is disconnected, his cell phone says it currently is not accepting incoming phone calls which we all know what that means.....oh he's married with two kids. So I finally get ahold of him through his parents and he says he's just hit a rough patch, rough patch my ass because his cousin told me he's closed only two deals in the last year! I tell him he needs to get off the commission train and get a steady income(he's got a 4 yr degree) especially with the two kids and all, he tells me that it will be ok things will get better lol. Well rather than get into a long song and dance lets say his work habits aren't the most industrious lol.

You see its all about status with him, it looks good to have R.A. agent next to his name and drive the BMW but if it ain't bringing trhe cash what good is it?

In your case bird I would've shoveled shit rather than go on unemployment or go to a self help group...correct me if i'm wrong for assuming you colected unemployment.


How dare you pass judgment on me without knowing what I really did! I looked everywhere for work and was not fussy about what job I'd take. Still, it took a long time. Remember, there was a recession going on. How dare you suggest that it was my fault that my job search took longer than expected!

As for the "self help" group, as I said earlier, I considered it an investment - part of my job search. I got a few job leads as a result of my involvement in the group, although none resulted in a job offer. Still, I consider it step on my part.

I bust my ass looking for a job for eight months. How dare you suggest that I didn't try hard enough, especially since you don't know me personally or didn't know me when I was trying very hard to find another job! You have a lot of gall.

Gunny
02-14-2007, 12:03 AM
Who the hell pumps gas? People working gas stations sit on little stools behind 6" of bulletproof glass collecting money.

For you young 'uns, almost ALL gas stations were full service up until the late 70s. Self-service was like one pump over on the side. Was my first job when I was 16.

You had to walk out and greet the person, ask what they wanted, clean their windshields, and ask if they would like their tire pressure, oil, trans fluid, radiator checked. All things you pay for or do youself now.

manu1959
02-14-2007, 12:03 AM
How dare you pass judgment on me without knowing what I really did! I looked everywhere for work and was not fussy about what job I'd take. Still, it took a long time. Remember, there was a recession going on. How dare you suggest that it was my fault that my job search took longer than expected!

As for the "self help" group, as I said earlier, I considered it an investment - part of my job search. I got a few job leads as a result of my involvement in the group, although none resulted in a job offer. Still, I consider it step on my part.

I bust my ass looking for a job for eight months. How dare you suggest that I didn't try hard enough, especially since you don't know me personally or didn't know me when I was trying very hard to find another job! You have a lot of gall.

question.....the eight months you didn't have a job....what did you do for money?

Gunny
02-14-2007, 12:04 AM
Well, around here 95% of those jobs are done by immigrants - mainly SE Asians and Indians...

Gas stations are almost all self-service here now. The few that are full service make you pay through the nose for it.

Gunny
02-14-2007, 12:05 AM
question.....the eight months you didn't have a job....what did you do for money?

I busted my ass for an hour to find my current job. The one I had before that I spent "all" lunchtime looking for.

shattered
02-14-2007, 12:06 AM
For you young 'uns, almost ALL gas stations were full service up until the late 70s. Self-service was like one pump over on the side. Was my first job when I was 16.

You had to walk out and greet the person, ask what they wanted, clean their windshields, and ask if they would like their tire pressure, oil, trans fluid, radiator checked. All things you pay for or do youself now.

Ahem. I'm well aware of that fact - even I was alive waaaaaay back then.

I was referring to now, when someone said those jobs are held by SE Asians, and Indians...

Actually, there is ONE gas station here that still pumps gas for you - but only at one pump, only between 8am and 4pm, and only for women. :D

Grumplestillskin
02-14-2007, 12:06 AM
Gas stations are almost all self-service here now. The few that are full service make you pay through the nose for it.

I pumped gas when I was 19. It was second job, but because it was a 12 hour shift on a Sunday it was time and half. Well worth doing!

jackass
02-14-2007, 12:08 AM
pulling sausage

Hehe..she likes to pull sausage...hehe :thewave:

shattered
02-14-2007, 12:10 AM
Hehe..she likes to pull sausage...hehe :thewave:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/mmlnt/whack.gif

Gunny
02-14-2007, 12:10 AM
I pumped gas when I was 19. It was second job, but because it was a 12 hour shift on a Sunday it was time and half. Well worth doing!

I did it all summer, 6 days a week, 8 hours-a-day, then 6 hours on Sat and Sun once school started back up.

But it goes to getting what you want. I could wear the clothes my parents provided, but they could not afford to provide me the ones I wanted, so I went and earned the money to get what I wanted.

Grumplestillskin
02-14-2007, 12:11 AM
Any idea how much pulling sausage meat out of casings that didn't form right in the machines paid 20 years ago? $11.50 an hour..

That'd be pretty good money 20 years ago - hell it'd be pretty good money now for some...

Gunny
02-14-2007, 12:13 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/mmlnt/whack.gif

You KNOW I just HAD to rep him for that .....:)

Grumplestillskin
02-14-2007, 12:14 AM
I did it all summer, 6 days a week, 8 hours-a-day, then 6 hours on Sat and Sun once school started back up.

But it goes to getting what you want. I could wear the clothes my parents provided, but they could not afford to provide me the ones I wanted, so I went and earned the money to get what I wanted.

BTW, I ain't getting all syrupy about it. Glad I have those days off now, espeically with a couple of young boys, but the money sure came in handy...

shattered
02-14-2007, 12:14 AM
You KNOW I just HAD to rep him for that .....:)

Oh, I wouldn't expect anything less from you... :poke:

Gunny
02-14-2007, 12:15 AM
Oh, I wouldn't expect anything less from you... :poke:

:dev3:

jackass
02-14-2007, 12:16 AM
You KNOW I just HAD to rep him for that .....:)

At least someone around here has a sense of humor. Thanks Gunny! :)

shattered
02-14-2007, 12:16 AM
:dev3:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/mmlnt/kiss2.gif

shattered
02-14-2007, 12:17 AM
Now he'll get all grossed out and go to bed. :D

Gunny
02-14-2007, 12:18 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/mmlnt/kiss2.gif

YUCK!!!:mad:

shattered
02-14-2007, 12:19 AM
Told ya.. :D

I wear my Princess crown well.

Gunny
02-14-2007, 12:19 AM
At least someone around here has a sense of humor. Thanks Gunny! :)

No problem. She asked for it ....:laugh:

Gunny
02-14-2007, 12:20 AM
Told ya.. :D

I wear my Princess crown well.

You always want to ruin everything with that huggy-smoochie crap.:uhoh:

Gunny
02-14-2007, 12:21 AM
And NOW I'm going to bed.:poke:

shattered
02-14-2007, 12:21 AM
You always want to ruin everything with that huggy-smoochie crap.:uhoh:

Only for you. :smoke:

Gunny
02-14-2007, 12:22 AM
Only for you. :smoke:

;)

manu1959
02-14-2007, 12:26 AM
And NOW I'm going to bed.:poke:

suuuuuuuuuuuuuure :wank2:

shattered
02-14-2007, 12:27 AM
suuuuuuuuuuuuuure :wank2:

You know I had to rep him for that, right, Gunny? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/mmlnt/finger3.gif

5stringJeff
02-14-2007, 12:28 AM
How dare you pass judgment on me without knowing what I really did! I looked everywhere for work and was not fussy about what job I'd take. Still, it took a long time. Remember, there was a recession going on. How dare you suggest that it was my fault that my job search took longer than expected!

As for the "self help" group, as I said earlier, I considered it an investment - part of my job search. I got a few job leads as a result of my involvement in the group, although none resulted in a job offer. Still, I consider it step on my part.

I bust my ass looking for a job for eight months. How dare you suggest that I didn't try hard enough, especially since you don't know me personally or didn't know me when I was trying very hard to find another job! You have a lot of gall.

My dad went through something similar. He got furloughed from Continental Airlines and did odd jobs for months before he could get back in the cockpit. Even then, he flew for some smaller corporate companies before he could get back with the airlines again.

manu1959
02-14-2007, 12:29 AM
I pumped gas when I was 19. It was second job, but because it was a 12 hour shift on a Sunday it was time and half. Well worth doing!

man my high school and college summers sucked ..... worked drywall from 6-3 and washed dishes from 5 til midnight......

CockySOB
02-14-2007, 01:47 AM
Capitalism thrives on scarcity. If everybody is rich there is no scarcity because everybody can afford everything - unless there is not enough to go around - and with certain commodities there isn't.
You have said one thing correct that capitalism thrives at ALL levels of society. It needs those levels to survive.
... snip ...
So before you open your cocky gob, think about things before you flame people. Being cocky doesn't give you the right to be a dick, but feel free to carry on. I'd put my IQ up against yours any day of the week...:2up:

Going by the article, the vast majority of the woman's problems lie at her own feet.

The bold-faced text I totally agree with.

By the way, you incorrectly paraphrased my statement. I did not say that capitalism thrives at all levels nor that it requires those levels to exist. What I said was that capitalism thrives when value is created at all levels. The only way for a capitalistic society to thrive at all levels is if the total wealth of the population continually grows and that such growth is proportional for each contributing individual. What we see with the woman in this article is someone who is not only NOT a contributing member of society, but someone who is exhausting resources at an alarming rate based on her own poor decision-making. (See how I tie things back to the OP? I'm still waiting to see how you tie your post back to the OP as well, because it still seems like nothing more than a diatribe against capitalism from someone who has an ax to grind.)

Also, capitalistic growth is based on demand, which is not necessarily the same thing as scarcity. True, scarcity can increase perceived value leading to larger margins, but the demand is tied to the perceived value, not the scarcity. In modern American society, the necessities are not so scarce as to exclude the "poor" from acquiring them whether by their own efforts or through the efforts of charitable organizations and social programs. And even if everyone attained the status of "rich," there would still be demand for products and services even though a "poor underclass" wouldn't exist. Which all kinda knocks your argument to the ground, does it not?

Note to GrumpyThinSkin: That wasn't a flame. Hell, it wasn't even a spark. If I feel the desire to flame you, there won't be any doubt about my intentions. Trust me. And while I may find a lot of what you say to be misguided and/or moronic, you at least ARE providing feedback and discussion unlike so many of the modern American librulls. And if you actually feel like being rude to me, feel free. Unlike our resident librull moonbats, I have a pretty thick skin and can take whatever you throw at me.

Being a dick to imbeciles is just another free service I provide.
:dev:

Hobbit
02-14-2007, 03:04 AM
I have no sympathy for this woman. Right now, I live with my parents, because I'm trying to get back into college and I'm going to have to pay to finish it all by myself. I messed up enough that I doubt I'll get much in scholarships, and my parents are paying for my sister's education, which, so far, is proving to be a better investment than mine (she's close to center, politically, though she's a conservative and won't admit it, and she and the only other conservative in her poly-sci class took the rest of the class and the teacher to task on the minimum wage. I'm so proud *sniff* whoa, tangent). First off, I'm not above mooching free room and board off my parents as long as they're offering it. I currently work two jobs, and spend my spare time working on classes to raise my GPA. When my hours got cut back after Christmas, I went around wherever I was allowed and put up signs with my name and phone number, advertising my computer-fixing skills, for lower rates than the Best Buy Geek Squad, including house calls, and subject to availability. I never eat out unless somebody else pays or I have no choice. My car gets 45 mpg and is paid for. When I was still in school, I spent my summers renting a cheap house with a friend. As Boy Scout camp veterans, we never turned on the AC (the house leaked like a sieve), even though the summers in NW Arkansas can get over 100 degrees quite often. We ate a lot of ramen, beans, and other cheap stuff we could find. He didn't drink caffiene and I switched from soft drinks to cheap coffee and tea. I worked 2 jobs and did freelance tech support on the side then, too. One of those jobs was at a pizza place, and I would often save money there by making a meal of pizza customers had abandoned (common practice there).

As a result of these frugal habits, I have saved more than $10k in under one year, not including the $1000 emergency fund I've had for over 2 years. I even set aside a few bucks a week in cash as 'blow money' to keep my desire to spend some of my hard-earned dough in check. No job I have ever worked has required anything more than a willingness to do it, and they have all been within less than a mile of where I lived.

Grumplestillskin
02-14-2007, 03:52 AM
By the way, you incorrectly paraphrased my statement. I did not say that capitalism thrives at all levels nor that it requires those levels to exist. What I said was that capitalism thrives when value is created at all levels.

RRiiigggghhhttt. So when value is created at all levels, even the lowest, it is not capitialism. Do you actually believe the drivel you write?


What we see with the woman in this article is someone who is not only NOT a contributing member of society, but someone who is exhausting resources at an alarming rate based on her own poor decision-making. (See how I tie things back to the OP? I'm still waiting to see how you tie your post back to the OP as well, because it still seems like nothing more than a diatribe against capitalism from someone who has an ax to grind).

Um, one of the biggest problems you have is you ass-ume to much. It seems a trait particular to neocons and their ilk. I have never said I do not like capitalism. In fact I do. I think both pure capitalism and socialism will never work. A mixture of both will...the devil is in the details. Why do I have to tie my answer back to the piece?


In modern American society, the necessities are not so scarce as to exclude the "poor" from acquiring them whether by their own efforts or through the efforts of charitable organizations and social programs. And even if everyone attained the status of "rich," there would still be demand for products and services even though a "poor underclass" wouldn't exist. Which all kinda knocks your argument to the ground, does it not?

It not only doesn't knock my argument, it hardly brushes it. We are not even talking about the necessities. Even the dirt poor get the necessities whether it be by charities or food stamps or whatever. I'm talking about what drives the economy - supply, demand and scarcity.
For a simpleton like yourself I'll give you an example.
First scenario: Ten guys are all worth $1 million and desperately - I mean really, really desperately want the last Porsche on the lot. They all turn up at the same time to buy it. The price on the car is $200,000. The first guys says he'll pay it. However the 2nd guy is just dying to get it is so offers $10,000 more. The third then offers another $10 gs and so it goes on, until eventually one of them pays $1 million for it. See how an item valued at $200,000 escalates and suddenly is worth way more than it's book value? It's called hyper inflation.
Second scenario: Same ten guys, same price, but three have $150,000, three have $200,000, two have $300,000 and one $400,000 and one $500,000m with three of them (and arguably six) not even in the race. There is gonna be only one winner. Now relate that to most other products and services and yiou see how an underclass helps keep things the way they are. And you know what, I haven't even said it is a good or bad thing.


Note to GrumpyThinSkin: That wasn't a flame. Hell, it wasn't even a spark. If I feel the desire to flame you, there won't be any doubt about my intentions. Trust me. And while I may find a lot of what you say to be misguided and/or moronic, you at least ARE providing feedback and discussion unlike so many of the modern American librulls. And if you actually feel like being rude to me, feel free. Unlike our resident librull moonbats, I have a pretty thick skin and can take whatever you throw at me.

Well at least we have the same opinion of each other. Any time you feel like flamming I'll see you in the cage....:poke: I'll have you pissing blood through the keyboard in five minutes...:gay:


Being a dick to imbeciles is just another free service I provide. :dev:

Why if you stop looking in the mirror, you won't have to provide the service at all. Self flagellation on messageboards is unbecoming - even to morons!

Ado
02-14-2007, 04:31 AM
We may have distain for the poor in this country,
but we sure are enablers by not improving education
for schools in areas that need the most help, not
providing sex education to kids at the earliest age
possible, not allowing pro-choice, and easy dissemination
of condoms, and other birth control.

The poverty culture has learned bad habits.
If they can manipulate the system and find loopholes,
it is up to us to change it, but also give them
options out of that lifestyle--and I don't
mean affirmative action, I mean educating them
in the basics, with a good foundation.

We haven't done anyone any favors by outsourcing
jobs to other countries, now the lower middle class
will lose buying power, and have no health insurance.

Many of the poor earn money with the drug trade.
We are wasting far too much money on the war
on pot. Money and resources should be spent
on drugs that cause more harm and violent
situations. Jail space could be made if we didn't
waste time jailing people for weed; then there
would more people eligible for better jobs,
without that on their records.

And no, I don't smoke dope--it is
an economic consideration. If pot were
made legal, you'd cut out half the local
dealer's business. For many, all their
business. But the real truth is, keeping
pot illegal keeps the government working,
and it keeps a portion of the population
down. Meanwhile, Betty Boobalot,
with her fake tits, can get boozed up
plus take prescription pills and drive
around in her Mercedes that she got
from her third husband, while her
kid goes to rehab for the second time
in a year.

If we are going to put down poor people,
let's look at all the contributing factors
that we are imposing on them, that helps
keep them there.

stephanie
02-14-2007, 04:43 AM
We may have distain for the poor in this country,
but we sure are enablers by not improving education
for schools in areas that need the most help, not
providing sex education to kids at the earliest age
possible, not allowing pro-choice, and easy dissemination
of condoms, and other birth control.

The poverty culture has learned bad habits.
If they can manipulate the system and find loopholes,
it is up to us to change it, but also give them
options out of that lifestyle--and I don't
mean affirmative action, I mean educating them
in the basics, with a good foundation.

We haven't done anyone any favors by outsourcing
jobs to other countries, now the lower middle class
will lose buying power, and have no health insurance.

Many of the poor earn money with the drug trade.
We are wasting far too much money on the war
on pot. Money and resources should be spent
on drugs that cause more harm and violent
situations. Jail space could be made if we didn't
waste time jailing people for weed; then there
would more people eligible for better jobs,
without that on their records.

And no, I don't smoke dope--it is
an economic consideration. If pot were
made legal, you'd cut out half the local
dealer's business. For many, all their
business. But the real truth is, keeping
pot illegal keeps the government working,
and it keeps a portion of the population
down. Meanwhile, Betty Boobalot,
with her fake tits, can get boozed up
plus take prescription pills and drive
around in her Mercedes that she got
from her third husband, while her
kid goes to rehab for the second time
in a year.

If we are going to put down poor people,
let's look at all the contributing factors
that we are imposing on them, that helps
keep them there.

:uhoh:

avatar4321
02-14-2007, 04:52 AM
We may have distain for the poor in this country,
but we sure are enablers by not improving education
for schools in areas that need the most help, not
providing sex education to kids at the earliest age
possible, not allowing pro-choice, and easy dissemination
of condoms, and other birth control.


This has got to be one of the most ridiculous statements I've seen on this thread.

Education means nothing if someone refuses to learn.

Is there honestly a person who has been through high school or even through middle school in America who has not been taught sex ed?

Where on earth are the pro abortionists not allowed? They've forced abortion onto the American people for the last 30+ years.

How difficult do you think it is to get a condom or birth control? More importantly how difficult is it to just not have sex outside marriage?

Its the same old liberal playbook. They've been pushing this on people for the past 40 years, and has anything gotten better? Of course not, its gotten worse.

When are people going to realize that pro-government liberalism just doesn't work? It never has, it never will. The problem isn't that society isn't doing enough. It's that society is doing too much. People refuse to take responsibility for their own actions.

Grumplestillskin
02-14-2007, 04:57 AM
They've forced abortion onto the American people for the last 30+ years.

Last time I looked nobody was forced to have an abortion. It is personal choice.

OCA
02-14-2007, 06:38 AM
We may have distain for the poor in this country,
but we sure are enablers by not improving education
for schools in areas that need the most help, not
providing sex education to kids at the earliest age
possible, not allowing pro-choice, and easy dissemination
of condoms, and other birth control.

The poverty culture has learned bad habits.
If they can manipulate the system and find loopholes,
it is up to us to change it, but also give them
options out of that lifestyle--and I don't
mean affirmative action, I mean educating them
in the basics, with a good foundation.

We haven't done anyone any favors by outsourcing
jobs to other countries, now the lower middle class
will lose buying power, and have no health insurance.

Many of the poor earn money with the drug trade.
We are wasting far too much money on the war
on pot. Money and resources should be spent
on drugs that cause more harm and violent
situations. Jail space could be made if we didn't
waste time jailing people for weed; then there
would more people eligible for better jobs,
without that on their records.

And no, I don't smoke dope--it is
an economic consideration. If pot were
made legal, you'd cut out half the local
dealer's business. For many, all their
business. But the real truth is, keeping
pot illegal keeps the government working,
and it keeps a portion of the population
down. Meanwhile, Betty Boobalot,
with her fake tits, can get boozed up
plus take prescription pills and drive
around in her Mercedes that she got
from her third husband, while her
kid goes to rehab for the second time
in a year.

If we are going to put down poor people,
let's look at all the contributing factors
that we are imposing on them, that helps
keep them there.

Holy shit! All the lib feel good talking points and whacky theories al wrapped up in one neat package. This gives me an idea for a new thread.

OCA
02-14-2007, 06:40 AM
Last time I looked nobody was forced to have an abortion. It is personal choice.

Personal choice to commit murder, cool. I should be allowed to waste this neighbor I got also, it would be a personal choice.

Roomy
02-14-2007, 08:14 AM
Roomy, YOU, and people like YOU, are the REASON for this woman, and the situation she has placed HERSELF in.

How do YOU feel?

I feel great, my kids are grown up, the youngest is 16, I own my own home and two others and a pair of flats, I run my own small building company, I holiday 3/4 times per year, I earn in excess of $100,000 per year that the tax man knows about:wink2: and more than that again that he doesn't.The wife is a teacher in middle school, she has a good salary.I am 46 years old and hope to retire within the next 8/9 years, so , yes, all in all, I feel great.

As for the plight of the lady in question, I think you are making quite a leap there buddy boy.

avatar4321
02-14-2007, 08:20 AM
Last time I looked nobody was forced to have an abortion. It is personal choice.

Last time i checked Roe v. Wade was a court decision making the issue forced upon the people. Had the people actually been able to vote on the matter it would probably be a dead issue now.

Roopull
02-14-2007, 09:02 AM
I'm impressed by the responses!

Here are a few of my own...



Actually, I don't know what the point of the article was because of the running commentary. Now, I may have drawn some of the same conclusions, but instead of being able to read the article and draw those conclusions, I was treated to an editorialized version.
See below.

Roo do you have a link to the text you posted?
Ask and ye shall receive! (http://v2.charleston.net/assets/webPages/departmental/news/Stories.aspx?section=localnews&tableId=130028&pubDate=2/11/2007) Uh, sorry about that. I usually include that within the post.

As an aside, if you ever read an article & the source isn't cited, you can cut & paste the first paragraph into Google or Yahoo & it usually will bring you right to the article... it works in this case, too.



XXXXXXXX

Your abuse of the poor speaks volumes of you, I don't like you already, please change my mind.
I don't care if you don't like me. Respect my point of view & we'll get along swimmingly.



XXXXXXXXX

Is it her fault or the systems?Accidents do happen repeatedly btw.
Nothing in the article could be construed as an accident, except her first child's birth. After that, I'm quite sure she knew how it happened. Her situation is a direct result of years of her brilliant orchestrations.[/quote]



XXXXXXXX

I am so pleased you are privileged enough not to know how it feels to be her or one of the millions like her and worse.If it makes anyone happy to denegrate these people it only serves to make me wonder about them.

I was raised by a single mother & at times, we were very poor... 3rd world poor... no running water poor. Being there, I saw what it took to get into & out of that situation.



XXXXXXXXX

Maybe she is catholic?
You would do well to read the article before you start posting. Deliberate ignorance is very telling. Her church is mentioned in the article.



XXXXXXXXXXX

Maybe her job was affecting her health?
Again, read the article, Roomy. Her job was not affecting her health.



XXXXXXXXXXXX

Maybe she isn't lazy at all and the original poster is a flaming thick bastard who has posted his own take on the situation and you have bought it?
Maybe she isn't lazy? Maybe I am a bastard. No... she is lazy... something the two of you seem to have in common since you were too damn lazy to read the article.



XXXXXXXXXXXX

Lots of maybes to be getting on with , maybe you are right and she is a stupid, ignorant, uneducated lazy fool, my point being not all poor are.The original poster and those in agreement with him seem to think otherwise.
No one is talking about all of the poor, einstein. Had you read it...

I have little sympathy for the poor... outside of the mentally ill, physically disabled, or otherwise stricken I simply do not see the excuse.



XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

... you could get laid off in the middle of a recession and have difficulty finding another job - any job (been there, done that, no fun).
Agreed... see above ^
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX





...how dare you and anyone else tell anyone how many children they are allowed.
How dare I? She's sucking off the public tit... a tit which is funded by MY money taken from me by force via the IRS. I have a right to demand that the money is spent frugally, pragmatically and wisely. If you can show me how further funding this lazy bitch's lifestyle is frugal, pragmatic or wise, I'm all ears.

She should be spayed & the 2nd two fathers should be neutered like the dogs they are. Clear enough?



XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

if trampling over weakest in society becomes an olympic event we have an abundance of medal hopefuls here, shame.
The only one doing any trampling is this lazy woman who insists that the government play Robin Hood to fund her sorry lifestyle.




XXXXXXXXXXXXX

I found myself unemployed many years ago with four small children a wife and a mortgage, I am thankful that the welfare state in britain is more forgiving than that here.
I don't know much about the welfare situation in Britain, but in Charleston, this woman has access to free housing, free food, free cash, almost free transportation, free healthcare, a free education & discounted utilities... what the hell else could she possibly need? She's been in this situation for years.


I worked my way out of the hole I found myself in, some are never quite so fortunate.


I feel great, my kids are grown up, the youngest is 16, I own my own home and two others and a pair of flats, I run my own small building company, I holiday 3/4 times per year, I earn in excess of $100,000 per year that the tax man knows about:wink2: and more than that again that he doesn't.The wife is a teacher in middle school, she has a good salary.I am 46 years old and hope to retire within the next 8/9 years, so , yes, all in all, I feel great.

You weren't fortunate. Unlike this shittard in the article, you actually got a job that could support you. You weren't satisfied living the life of a leach, so you did more with yourself. You may be a betwetting (figurative, of course) liberal, but it would seem you're not a lazy sack of shit.







XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

If this lady was not working at all and failing to contribute anything toward the upkeep of her family I might(might) agree with you depending upon the circumstances, as it is she goes to work, what is your problem other than the amount of kids she has?
You want to know what's going on here, Roomy? In the USA, if she wants to maintain her sorry ass welfare benefits, she has to work from time to time. That's all she's doing... she's gaming the system. She's doing the absolutely minimum to get by & clearly refuses to do anything else. Did you not catch the part about her sister receiving benefits as well & living under her roof? Oh, that's right... you didn't read the article.








XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

What I think is that she's ignorant and needs guidence, not derision. (The dogs and convenience store shopping, notwithstanding). Not all of us are so lucky as to have had parents who could teach us and pass along values.
FWIW, I never had anyone to tell me or show me how to do anything. You don't need the obvious pointed out to you. The lowliest lifeforms know they have to perform in order to survive. I posit that this woman IS performing... she's performing a song & dance for everyone & some folks enjoy the performance so damned much, they're willing to forget that it is indeed a performance... an act... a charade. They forget this & grant her celebrity victim status... she's free to live her lazy lifestyle & do next to nothing to ensure her own survival - aside from the victim performance, that is.

trobinett
02-14-2007, 09:50 AM
I feel great,

And I'm glad to here it, honestly.


my kids are grown up, the youngest is 16, I own my own home and two others and a pair of flats, I run my own small building company, I holiday 3/4 times per year, I earn in excess of $100,000 per year that the tax man knows about:wink2: and more than that again that he doesn't.The wife is a teacher in middle school, she has a good salary.I am 46 years old and hope to retire within the next 8/9 years, so , yes, all in all, I feel great.

You've worked hard, and wouldn't except the circumstances that you originally found yourself in, you are proud, and should be.


As for the plight of the lady in question, I think you are making quite a leap there buddy boy.

I think not Roomy, if she had just HALF the pride, and work ethic that YOU have, she would be fine.

Nienna
02-14-2007, 10:42 AM
Economics is about supply and demand. Let's say every person in a capitalist soceity is rich. There are no poor. You know what inflation is, right? You figure it out. The poor keep inflation down because they cant' afford the big items. If they could, prices would go through the roof. If everybody could afford to pay $6 a pound for peaches the prices would go up until the guy doing the selling reached a threshold that would lead to hyperinflation. Capitalism thrives on scarcity. If everybody is rich there is no scarcity because everybody can afford everything - unless there is not enough to go around - and with certain commodities there isn't.
You have said one thing correct that capitalism thrives at ALL levels of society. It needs those levels to survive. WIthout it you would have hyperinflation.

But, not ALL items in an economy are "big items." Demand is not driven simply by what people can afford, but also by what they DESIRE. I may have a hankering for peaches. At a dollar a pound, I'd grab some up. But, even though I could afford it, at $10/pound? I'd look for some less expensive alternative.

For the availability of commodities, we also have to take into consideration the marketing strategy of the co that sells the commodity. Some commodities are marketed as luxury items... they purposely hike the price, while other commodities are marketed at a lower price, trying to make revenue by selling more quantity.

There will always be a range of wealth, because there is always a range of inherent ability in people. Some people have skills that are more valuable than others'. But, looking at the "poor" in capitalistic societies v/s the poor in totalitarian/oligarchic societies, the poor in capitalistic societies are better-off.

Roomy
02-14-2007, 11:37 AM
I'm impressed by the responses!

Here are a few of my own...





XXXXXXXX

I don't care if you don't like me. Respect my point of view & we'll get along swimmingly.





I don't know you therefore I have no feelings for you one way or the other.I respect your right to an opinion but I do not respect the opinion, as for getting along, I am easy going, the ball is in your court.:wink2:

Roomy
02-14-2007, 12:28 PM
What shall we talk about today?


I think all those on welfare that are capable should be made to work for their benefits, If they refuse or deliberately make themselves unemployed or unemployable all benefits should be stopped immediately.They should have no say in the work they are assigned as long as the work is a valid job and they should be paid no more than the maximum entitlement due.No one capable of work should be allowed to stay at home doing nothing but collect cheques.
Self respect is all important and bringing home the bacon goes a long way toward it.:eek:

darin
02-14-2007, 12:59 PM
I think all those on welfare that are capable should be made to work for their benefits, If they refuse or deliberately make themselves unemployed or unemployable all benefits should be stopped immediately.They should have no say in the work they are assigned as long as the work is a valid job and they should be paid no more than the maximum entitlement due.No one capable of work should be allowed to stay at home doing nothing but collect cheques.
Self respect is all important and bringing home the bacon goes a long way toward it.:eek:


I'd buy that.

CockySOB
02-14-2007, 01:21 PM
What shall we talk about today?


I think all those on welfare that are capable should be made to work for their benefits, If they refuse or deliberately make themselves unemployed or unemployable all benefits should be stopped immediately.They should have no say in the work they are assigned as long as the work is a valid job and they should be paid no more than the maximum entitlement due.No one capable of work should be allowed to stay at home doing nothing but collect cheques.
Self respect is all important and bringing home the bacon goes a long way toward it.:eek:

Works for me. I'd also overhaul the disability system here in the USA to ensure that those who are on the disability roles are actually disabled. I know a number of unemployed who also collect disability despite the fact you can find them leading active, physical lifestyles.

Hagbard Celine
02-14-2007, 01:32 PM
I'd guestimate 95% of poor are poor by choice.

I think "by choice" is a bit gruff. I'd say 95 percent of the poor are poor because they don't put forth the effort to bring themselves out of poverty. In other words, they're lazy or stupid. Of course, I know plenty of lazy AND stupid middle classers so maybe you're right.

As for why she "keeps spreading her legs" and having kids, maybe she's Catholic :eek:

darin
02-14-2007, 01:43 PM
I think "by choice" is a bit gruff. I'd say 95 percent of the poor are poor because they don't put forth the effort to bring themselves out of poverty. I

Righto - in the end, it boils down to 'choice'...

CockySOB
02-14-2007, 01:53 PM
I think "by choice" is a bit gruff. I'd say 95 percent of the poor are poor because they don't put forth the effort to bring themselves out of poverty. In other words, they're lazy or stupid. Of course, I know plenty of lazy AND stupid middle classers so maybe you're right.

But isn't it a choice whether one puts forth the requisite effort or not?

Hobbit
02-14-2007, 01:57 PM
I think "by choice" is a bit gruff. I'd say 95 percent of the poor are poor because they don't put forth the effort to bring themselves out of poverty. In other words, they're lazy or stupid. Of course, I know plenty of lazy AND stupid middle classers so maybe you're right.

Being lazy is a choice. Being stupid is an excuse. I know a retarded guy with the intelligence of about an 8-10 year old, and he gets along better than this woman because he actually tries.


As for why she "keeps spreading her legs" and having kids, maybe she's Catholic :eek:

Last I checked, Catholics are against both spreading your legs outside marriage and remarrying after a divorce. Anybody who ignores both of those, but observes their forbiddance of birth control is stupid.

Ado
02-14-2007, 02:18 PM
This has got to be one of the most ridiculous statements I've seen on this thread.

Education means nothing if someone refuses to learn.

Is there honestly a person who has been through high school or even through middle school in America who has not been taught sex ed?

Where on earth are the pro abortionists not allowed? They've forced abortion onto the American people for the last 30+ years.

How difficult do you think it is to get a condom or birth control? More importantly how difficult is it to just not have sex outside marriage?

Its the same old liberal playbook. They've been pushing this on people for the past 40 years, and has anything gotten better? Of course not, its gotten worse.

When are people going to realize that pro-government liberalism just doesn't work? It never has, it never will. The problem isn't that society isn't doing enough. It's that society is doing too much. People refuse to take responsibility for their own actions.

When have these things ever been allowed to happen without
opposition??--total bullshit on your part. You can't get beyond
hating people enough to allow free choice--they are blamed
before anything can change. You are too much into yourself
to allow anyone to have a choice that doesn't involve your
opinion.

HORSE SHIT

Ado
02-14-2007, 02:20 PM
Works for me. I'd also overhaul the disability system here in the USA to ensure that those who are on the disability roles are actually disabled. I know a number of unemployed who also collect disability despite the fact you can find them leading active, physical lifestyles.

We have a system that allows that--insurance companies
manage to expose those people, why can't the government
follow through?

jillian
02-14-2007, 02:22 PM
We have a system that allows that--insurance companies
manage to expose those people, why can't the government
follow through?

They do. No question that some stuff goes under the radar, but it isn't the endemic problem that some whnle about.

Ado
02-14-2007, 02:30 PM
Personal choice to commit murder, cool. I should be allowed to waste this neighbor I got also, it would be a personal choice.

I love how you want to force people into
making personal decisions that make you feel
good, but the burden is shoved onto someone
else for a lifetime.

I love how you want these babies to be born under
any circumstances, but you don't want universal
health care, or all the other things that would
give that child a head start and a good foundation
in life, and support the family, with REAL family values.

Maybe I need to start pointing out that a good
portion of these babies born will be gay, non-Christians,
drug dealers, drug addicts, porn actors & Democrats.

Does that help?

5stringJeff
02-14-2007, 02:37 PM
I love how you want to force people into
making personal decisions that make you feel
good, but the burden is shoved onto someone
else for a lifetime.

I love how you want these babies to be born under
any circumstances, but you don't want universal
health care, or all the other things that would
give that child a head start and a good foundation
in life, and support the family, with REAL family values.

Maybe I need to start pointing out that a good
portion of these babies born will be gay, non-Christians,
drug dealers, drug addicts, porn actors & Democrats.

Does that help?

First of all, the personal decisions she makes are hers: personal. As such, she should have to live with the consequences of those decisions on her own. As it is, she's getting welfare (food stamps) and shopping at a convenience store, then complaining about how hard it is to get along.

Second, we (the pro-life crowd) believe that all human life is sacred. Yes, that means even Democrats (that was sarcasm there). Seriously, though, the fact that some babies born into poverty will become non-Christians, or druggies, or porn actors, doesn't make their lives any less valuable.

Third, universal health care, run by the government, would be horribly inefficient and abused by the people who need it least or who would use loopholes to their advantage. For proof, see your local emergency room.

Ado
02-14-2007, 02:48 PM
First of all, the personal decisions she makes are hers: personal. As such, she should have to live with the consequences of those decisions on her own. As it is, she's getting welfare (food stamps) and shopping at a convenience store, then complaining about how hard it is to get along.

Second, we (the pro-life crowd) believe that all human life is sacred. Yes, that means even Democrats (that was sarcasm there). Seriously, though, the fact that some babies born into poverty will become non-Christians, or druggies, or porn actors, doesn't make their lives any less valuable.

Third, universal health care, run by the government, would be horribly inefficient and abused by the people who need it least or who would use loopholes to their advantage. For proof, see your local emergency room.

I think we need to come to grips with the fact that a significant
portion of any society is just not too bright. They will find ways
to circumvent any program or system and should be dealt with
and taught that this is not acceptable.

But for most of the people, it will give them more options
and break some cycles and break the downward spiral that
we will see very soon.

If the divide between have and have nots keeps growing
the upper crust will feel it, because people will act with
their wallets and get better priorities, and wise up to
using credit badly and see that unbridled consumerism
is killing them and funding the greedy.

Roopull
02-14-2007, 04:33 PM
I think we need to come to grips with the fact that a significant portion of any society is just not too bright. They will find ways
to circumvent any program or system and should be dealt with
and taught that this is not acceptable.
See, I actually don't think she's stupid at all. She's clever enough to have figured out how to game the system just enough. She and her sister have quite the little scam going.




If the divide between have and have nots keeps growing
the upper crust will feel it, because people will act with
their wallets and get better priorities, and wise up to
using credit badly and see that unbridled consumerism
is killing them and funding the greedy.
I don't understand what you just said. What does the "gap between the haves & have nots" have to do with anything?

If the poor "act with their wallets" and "get better priorities" how can that be a bad thing for the wealthy? Their taxes will go down because there aren't as many leaches in the economy & these losers will actually begin to produce... probably working for some wealthy guy who makes products that the "have nots" will want to buy... thus making them "haves," I suppose.

Unbridled consumerism? What the hell is that supposed to mean? It's nonsense. Unbridled consumerism... as though being a consumer is like being a wild animal in need of being tamed... THAT TERM is an attempt by the socialist minded to tarnish capitalism. What needs to be tamed is the ever growing safety net society provides these people... even Roomy suggested it.

If people have no fear of starvation, homelessness & possible death, you end up with the Brenda Kellys of the world. Does anyone actually think that she'd not become a productive member of society overnight if she were told by the government that she had six months to get her crap together or else her kids would be taken away & she'd be evicted with no further assistance???

darin
02-14-2007, 04:36 PM
How about this: Why are the POOR so GREEDY...always WANTING and CRYING for MORE?? Self-centered bastards...

CockySOB
02-14-2007, 05:50 PM
How about this: Why are the POOR so GREEDY...always WANTING and CRYING for MORE?? Self-centered bastards...

Incorrect statement. How about: why is there an atmosphere of entitlement among those who are able to do for themselves, yet don't?

'Cause all ya have to do is ask a librull and they'll tell ya it's the RICH who are so GREEDY! :-)

darin
02-14-2007, 05:55 PM
Incorrect statement. How about: why is there an atmosphere of entitlement among those who are able to do for themselves, yet don't?

You nailed it.

CockySOB
02-14-2007, 06:17 PM
You nailed it.

Rename me Captain Obvious.

And I've got some nominations ready for Captain Oblivious....

Ado
02-14-2007, 10:19 PM
See, I actually don't think she's stupid at all. She's clever enough to have figured out how to game the system just enough. She and her sister have quite the little scam going.




I don't understand what you just said. What does the "gap between the haves & have nots" have to do with anything?

If the poor "act with their wallets" and "get better priorities" how can that be a bad thing for the wealthy? Their taxes will go down because there aren't as many leaches in the economy & these losers will actually begin to produce... probably working for some wealthy guy who makes products that the "have nots" will want to buy... thus making them "haves," I suppose.

Unbridled consumerism? What the hell is that supposed to mean? It's nonsense. Unbridled consumerism... as though being a consumer is like being a wild animal in need of being tamed... THAT TERM is an attempt by the socialist minded to tarnish capitalism. What needs to be tamed is the ever growing safety net society provides these people... even Roomy suggested it.

If people have no fear of starvation, homelessness & possible death, you end up with the Brenda Kellys of the world. Does anyone actually think that she'd not become a productive member of society overnight if she were told by the government that she had six months to get her crap together or else her kids would be taken away & she'd be evicted with no further assistance???

She only as "smart" as we let her be. I do think she'd be forced
to turn herself around--why isn't it happening?

What I am addressing as have nots are people that do not have enough money
to buy health insurance because their employers do not offer any benefit, and the
lower middle class who is losing buying power, and will have less disposable
income. Those that pay for their own rising health insurance, do not have much money
to buy other things.

There are many people who have not managed their money and have credit debt.
True, it is their mistake, but when they figure out how to do things right,
the economy will feel the effects--they won't be buying.

Clearly you can see that others profit when people screw up.
Our bad habits actually keep the government and retail rolling along.

Now you can keep thinking I'm nuts, or you can actually think about
how things really work.

darin
02-14-2007, 10:37 PM
S
What I am addressing as have nots are people that do not have enough money
to buy health insurance because their employers do not offer any benefit,

Then the find another job, or an additional job.

(shrug)


and the
lower middle class who is losing buying power, and will have less disposable
income. Those that pay for their own rising health insurance, do not have much money
to buy other things.

They can buy what the need. People don't NEED health insurance. People need shelter, food, water, clothing, spiritual health. That's it. Above that, it's gravy.




Now you can keep thinking I'm nuts, or you can actually think about
how things really work.


I'm going to keep thinking you're nuts. :D

shattered
02-14-2007, 10:40 PM
I think "by choice" is a bit gruff. I'd say 95 percent of the poor are poor because they don't put forth the effort to bring themselves out of poverty. In other words, they're lazy or stupid. Of course, I know plenty of lazy AND stupid middle classers so maybe you're right.

<b>As for why she "keeps spreading her legs" and having kids, maybe she's Catholic</b> :eek:

That's been previously addressed in this thread. It was a load of shit from Roomy, and it's a load of shit from you. Being Catholic doesn't mean you have to "spread" your legs for every Tom, Dick, and Harry you meet/date.

darin
02-14-2007, 11:02 PM
That's been previously addressed in this thread. It was a load of shit from Roomy, and it's a load of shit from you. Being Catholic doesn't mean you have to "spread" your legs for every Tom, Dick, and Harry you meet/date.

I think they were referencing her lack of birth control usage.?

shattered
02-14-2007, 11:06 PM
I think they were referencing her lack of birth control usage.?

Probably, but it's an irrelevant point, given she didn't have to sleep with all the people she did, and she's *obviously* not following any other portion of the Catholic lifestyle...

darin
02-14-2007, 11:08 PM
Probably, but it's an irrelevant point, given she didn't have to sleep with all the people she did, and she's *obviously* not following any other portion of the Catholic lifestyle...

often people like taking cheap shots at those of faith. :(

shattered
02-14-2007, 11:10 PM
often people like taking cheap shots at those of faith. :(

I'm not taking a cheap shot at anyone.. But if you're going to use religion as a basis for why you may, or may not do something, follow the REST of the lifestyle - don't be so selective about it. I'm not saying there's never an exception to the rule, but, in this case...

darin
02-14-2007, 11:11 PM
I'm not taking a cheap shot at anyone.. But if you're going to use religion as a basis for why you may, or may not do something, follow the REST of the lifestyle - don't be so selective about it. I'm not saying there's never an exception to the rule, but, in this case...

I know YOU aren't. I'm saying people like making fun of Religion...or using it to make a funny? Point. I'm on your side here.

Ado
02-14-2007, 11:47 PM
Then the find another job, or an additional job.

(shrug)



They can buy what the need. People don't NEED health insurance. People need shelter, food, water, clothing, spiritual health. That's it. Above that, it's gravy.





I'm going to keep thinking you're nuts. :D


Well your glibness does not solve problems.

How many jobs am I supposed to have to pay for insurance?

It is not unnecessary. What grade are you in? http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/a0/baby.gif

darin
02-14-2007, 11:50 PM
Well your glibness does not solve problems.

How many jobs am I supposed to have to pay for insurance?

It is not unnecessary. What grade are you in? http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/a0/baby.gif



As many jobs as it takes. Your appeal to Ridicule fallacy is obvious; it does not strengthen your point of view; simply makes you seem foolish; lashing out cuz you got pwnt.

Don't pay for insurance if you can't afford it. (shrug) 'not having insurance' hasn't killed ANYONE I know.

Roomy
02-15-2007, 04:35 AM
I'm not taking a cheap shot at anyone.. But if you're going to use religion as a basis for why you may, or may not do something, follow the REST of the lifestyle - don't be so selective about it. I'm not saying there's never an exception to the rule, but, in this case...

Of course you are taking cheap shots, If you weren't I would worry that someone else was using your account.

Roopull
02-15-2007, 05:44 AM
Generally, I might take issue with what Shattered said about following the Catholic lifestyle, simply because a person's faith is a very personal thing... being a Christian to one person could be something entirely different to another.

However, being Catholic - as in the Holy Roman Catholic Church - is a fairly well known entity. The values, afterall, are in writing, distributed worldwide & quite publicly. If someone's a Catholic, I think it's fair to question their sincerity in their faith when they're obviously NOT following it.



However, Brenda Kelly is sending her kids to Metanoia, an NPO that partners with Baptist Churches in Charleston. Besides, if she were Catholic, wouldn't she feel guilty?;)

Roomy
02-15-2007, 07:14 AM
Generally, I might take issue with what Shattered said about following the Catholic lifestyle, simply because a person's faith is a very personal thing... being a Christian to one person could be something entirely different to another.

However, being Catholic - as in the Holy Roman Catholic Church - is a fairly well known entity. The values, afterall, are in writing, distributed worldwide & quite publicly. If someone's a Catholic, I think it's fair to question their sincerity in their faith when they're obviously NOT following it.



However, Brenda Kelly is sending her kids to Metanoia, an NPO that partners with Baptist Churches in Charleston. Besides, if she were Catholic, wouldn't she feel guilty?;)

Are you perfect?

Roopull
02-15-2007, 10:06 AM
Are you perfect?

Does this forum have an "ignore user" feature?:lame2:

First, he goes off responding to the post when he OBVIOUSLY hasn't read it, then when he starts to feel the pressure of his asinine ignorant statements being exposed, he goes into one line response mode & now he's just being idiotic.

You, sir Roomy, are a troll. If you want to participate in a conversaton, read the post that starts it so you don't sound so moronic. For all I know, you could be a friggin' genius... but, even a genius needs to know what he's talking about.


This is, in my humble, honest & correct opinion, the true cause of Global Warming... liberal hot air.

shattered
02-15-2007, 10:11 AM
Of course you are taking cheap shots, If you weren't I would worry that someone else was using your account.

I mean this in the nicest possible way... :upyours:

darin
02-15-2007, 10:50 AM
Generally, I might take issue with what Shattered said about following the Catholic lifestyle, simply because a person's faith is a very personal thing... being a Christian to one person could be something entirely different to another.


Not really true - it is in the all-inclusive happy-feel-good society. (un?)Fortunately we don't get to describe what it means to be a Christian. Christ has done that for us. People who follow christ MUST adhere, study and believe Him and the Bible. Going beyond what we learn in the bible is fine - as long as it does not Contradict scripture.



However, being Catholic - as in the Holy Roman Catholic Church - is a fairly well known entity. The values, afterall, are in writing, distributed worldwide & quite publicly. If someone's a Catholic, I think it's fair to question their sincerity in their faith when they're obviously NOT following it.

Having six kids out of wedlock is very strong evidence one isn't following catholicism. Not absolute proof - it COULD be she was legitimately raped, and conceived a child each time.

Christians are known by their 'fruit' the bible tells us. Some examples of a christian are: One who loves and cares for their "Brother" more and better than themselves. Christians suffer long. Christians are kind. Christians do the right thing in the face of "Liberalism". Okay, I added that last one...but it's True. :)

Roopull
02-15-2007, 11:31 AM
Not really true - it is in the all-inclusive happy-feel-good society. (un?)Fortunately we don't get to describe what it means to be a Christian. Christ has done that for us. People who follow christ MUST adhere, study and believe Him and the Bible. Going beyond what we learn in the bible is fine - as long as it does not Contradict scripture.



True enough... I was vaguely referring to the fact that there are literally thousands of protestant denominations who each have their own take on Christianity, so nailing down this woman's beliefs on things like marriage/divorce/birthcontrol etc would be difficult. However, the Catholics fairly well spell out for us what they believe. We could have all sorts of debates on what Jesus would have thought about condoms, for example, but there's no debate at all when it comes to what the Catholic Church believes.

It's that part about going beyond what we learn in the Bible... for protestants, there's room for debate. For Catholics, debating means you get to visit one of their made up layers of Hell.

darin
02-15-2007, 11:38 AM
True enough... I was vaguely referring to the fact that there are literally thousands of protestant denominations who each have their own take on Christianity, so nailing down this woman's beliefs on things like marriage/divorce/birthcontrol etc would be difficult. However, the Catholics fairly well spell out for us what they believe. We could have all sorts of debates on what Jesus would have thought about condoms, for example, but there's no debate at all when it comes to what the Catholic Church believes.

It's that part about going beyond what we learn in the Bible... for protestants, there's room for debate. For Catholics, debating means you get to visit one of their made up layers of Hell.


But even 'their own take' only varies SLIGHTLY, from a top-down perspective. The differences would be administrative or procedural. Real Christian churches share the same doctrine, +/-.

I can't comment on Catholicism much; Not catholic. But from an outsider's perspective, the Catholic church practices a LOT of stuff which isn't biblical, or at least, necessary for 'salvation' of one's soul. Birth Control? Alcohol? Whatever? None of that sorta stuff matters -big-picture- as to one's Christianity.

Roomy
02-15-2007, 12:39 PM
Does this forum have an "ignore user" feature?:lame2:

First, he goes off responding to the post when he OBVIOUSLY hasn't read it, then when he starts to feel the pressure of his asinine ignorant statements being exposed, he goes into one line response mode & now he's just being idiotic.

You, sir Roomy, are a troll. If you want to participate in a conversaton, read the post that starts it so you don't sound so moronic. For all I know, you could be a friggin' genius... but, even a genius needs to know what he's talking about.


This is, in my humble, honest & correct opinion, the true cause of Global Warming... liberal hot air.


:eek: how dare you?:gay:

If I had to guess, I would say you were extremely ugly, am I right?

Roomy
02-15-2007, 12:40 PM
I mean this in the nicest possible way... :upyours:


:slap:

KitchenKitten99
02-15-2007, 12:41 PM
But even 'their own take' only varies SLIGHTLY, from a top-down perspective. The differences would be administrative or procedural. Real Christian churches share the same doctrine, +/-.

I can't comment on Catholicism much; Not catholic. But from an outsider's perspective, the Catholic church practices a LOT of stuff which isn't biblical, or at least, necessary for 'salvation' of one's soul. Birth Control? Alcohol? Whatever? None of that sorta stuff matters -big-picture- as to one's Christianity.

how about quoting Chris Rock: "Get a job! I got two, you can't get one?! Just stop f*ing! Put the dick down!"

He makes so much sense sometimes. At least he used to.

Roomy
02-15-2007, 12:53 PM
I reserve the right to post in a manner befitting the original post and poster, If I am wide of the mark then something must have been lost in translation.

avatar4321
02-15-2007, 02:14 PM
I'm not taking a cheap shot at anyone.. But if you're going to use religion as a basis for why you may, or may not do something, follow the REST of the lifestyle - don't be so selective about it. I'm not saying there's never an exception to the rule, but, in this case...

I happen to agree with your view that people shouldnt pick and choose what parts of their religion they follow.

Of course, people aren't always perfect in anything they do.

jackass
02-15-2007, 07:29 PM
For Catholics, debating means you get to visit one of their made up layers of Hell.

Made up layers of hell?? Im not sure what religion you are talking about but it isnt Catholic.

shattered
02-15-2007, 10:37 PM
I happen to agree with your view that people shouldnt pick and choose what parts of their religion they follow.

Of course, people aren't always perfect in anything they do.

Ahh, thus my clarifier - "I'm not saying there's never an exception to the rule..." We're all guilty of it in some form or another...That one's just a bit extreme.. :D

shattered
02-15-2007, 10:42 PM
:slap:

That the best you've got?

OCA
02-15-2007, 10:57 PM
Well your glibness does not solve problems.

How many jobs am I supposed to have to pay for insurance?

It is not unnecessary. What grade are you in? http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/a0/baby.gif

Do you think everything you need should be paid for by someone else? Ever hear of term "pay your own way"? How about "personal responsibility"?

You have got to be the biggest social uberlib I think i've ever run across, all your pov run anathema to human nature and a conducive society.

OCA
02-15-2007, 10:59 PM
Are you perfect?

What a stupid fucking question.

Roomy is supporting a welfare cheat, everyone take note because it is evidence of low moral charachter.

OCA
02-15-2007, 11:01 PM
Does this forum have an "ignore user" feature?:lame2:

First, he goes off responding to the post when he OBVIOUSLY hasn't read it, then when he starts to feel the pressure of his asinine ignorant statements being exposed, he goes into one line response mode & now he's just being idiotic.

You, sir Roomy, are a troll. If you want to participate in a conversaton, read the post that starts it so you don't sound so moronic. For all I know, you could be a friggin' genius... but, even a genius needs to know what he's talking about.


This is, in my humble, honest & correct opinion, the true cause of Global Warming... liberal hot air.

100% correct, Roomy has always been a friggin troll, nothing more, nothing less. He can't debate his way out of a paper sack.

OCA
02-15-2007, 11:04 PM
:eek: how dare you?:gay:

If I had to guess, I would say you were extremely ugly, am I right?

More examples of trolling, the evidence is compiling up in the file, might need another folder.

Gunny
02-15-2007, 11:06 PM
She only as "smart" as we let her be. I do think she'd be forced
to turn herself around--why isn't it happening?

What I am addressing as have nots are people that do not have enough money
to buy health insurance because their employers do not offer any benefit, and the
lower middle class who is losing buying power, and will have less disposable
income. Those that pay for their own rising health insurance, do not have much money
to buy other things.

There are many people who have not managed their money and have credit debt.
True, it is their mistake, but when they figure out how to do things right,
the economy will feel the effects--they won't be buying.

Clearly you can see that others profit when people screw up.
Our bad habits actually keep the government and retail rolling along.

Now you can keep thinking I'm nuts, or you can actually think about
how things really work.

How things work: You incur debt ... you repay debt. It's called personal accountability, and one's income level has no bearing on it.

Consumer spending/not spending keeps the economy going, one way or the other. Taxes keep the government rolling, consumer spending or no.

People should be able to afford at least basic medical insurance. You can thank frivilous lawsuits and/or the uninsured receiving medical treatment at the cost of the insured's rising premiums for THAT.

So there's your CATCH-22 ... the people who won't get medical insurance because they feel they can't afford it while they have DSL, 3 TVs, a cell phone and/or pager for each person, XBOX, DVD players for every tube create the higher premiums by burdening the system because they cannot be turned away. SOMEBODY's going to pay. Guess who? The insured.

Gunny
02-15-2007, 11:08 PM
Well your glibness does not solve problems.

How many jobs am I supposed to have to pay for insurance?

It is not unnecessary. What grade are you in? http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/a0/baby.gif

As many as it takes.

Gunny
02-15-2007, 11:10 PM
Of course you are taking cheap shots, If you weren't I would worry that someone else was using your account.

How is it taking a cheap shot pointing out the hypocrisy of some of those who attempt to hide behind their religion when it suits them, but ignore it when it's inconvenient?

Roomy
02-16-2007, 04:30 AM
That the best you've got?

No, and you know it.:poke:

Roomy
02-16-2007, 04:31 AM
What a stupid fucking question.

Roomy is supporting a welfare cheat, everyone take note because it is evidence of low moral charachter.

I like it when you make me feel superior to you, carry on.

Roomy
02-16-2007, 04:36 AM
More examples of trolling, the evidence is compiling up in the file, might need another folder.

Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahaha.......... ...starting a campaign to have me banned?silly little man.

I love it when you cry, you often get in touch with your feminine side don't you?:gay:

Roomy
02-16-2007, 04:43 AM
How is it taking a cheap shot pointing out the hypocrisy of some of those who attempt to hide behind their religion when it suits them, but ignore it when it's inconvenient?

Now that she admits she is as guilty as anyone she may have been referring to, I may have jumped the gun.

Roopull
02-16-2007, 05:18 AM
Made up layers of hell?? Im not sure what religion you are talking about but it isnt Catholic.

Referencing purgatory.

Roopull
02-16-2007, 05:20 AM
:eek: how dare you?:gay:

If I had to guess, I would say you were extremely ugly, am I right?

:lame2: :trolls:

Roomy
02-16-2007, 05:40 AM
:lame2: :trolls:

This may be a big ask, but, Please try not to flood the board with threads.:mad: You are almost as bad as Kathianne:eek:

Roomy
02-16-2007, 05:56 AM
I'm impressed by the responses!

Here are a few of my own...



See below.

Ask and ye shall receive! (http://v2.charleston.net/assets/webPages/departmental/news/Stories.aspx?section=localnews&tableId=130028&pubDate=2/11/2007) Uh, sorry about that. I usually include that within the post.

As an aside, if you ever read an article & the source isn't cited, you can cut & paste the first paragraph into Google or Yahoo & it usually will bring you right to the article... it works in this case, too.



XXXXXXXX

I don't care if you don't like me. Respect my point of view & we'll get along swimmingly.



XXXXXXXXX

Nothing in the article could be construed as an accident, except her first child's birth. After that, I'm quite sure she knew how it happened. Her situation is a direct result of years of her brilliant orchestrations.



XXXXXXXX





XXXXXXXXX

You would do well to read the article before you start posting. Deliberate ignorance is very telling. Her church is mentioned in the article.



XXXXXXXXXXX

Again, read the article, Roomy. Her job was not affecting her health.



XXXXXXXXXXXX

Maybe she isn't lazy? Maybe I am a bastard. No... she is lazy... something the two of you seem to have in common since you were too damn lazy to read the article.



XXXXXXXXXXXX

No one is talking about all of the poor, einstein. Had you read it...




XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Agreed... see above ^
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX





How dare I? She's sucking off the public tit... a tit which is funded by MY money taken from me by force via the IRS. I have a right to demand that the money is spent frugally, pragmatically and wisely. If you can show me how further funding this lazy bitch's lifestyle is frugal, pragmatic or wise, I'm all ears.

She should be spayed & the 2nd two fathers should be neutered like the dogs they are. Clear enough?



XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

The only one doing any trampling is this lazy woman who insists that the government play Robin Hood to fund her sorry lifestyle.




XXXXXXXXXXXXX

I don't know much about the welfare situation in Britain, but in Charleston, this woman has access to free housing, free food, free cash, almost free transportation, free healthcare, a free education & discounted utilities... what the hell else could she possibly need? She's been in this situation for years.




You weren't fortunate. Unlike this shittard in the article, you actually got a job that could support you. You weren't satisfied living the life of a leach, so you did more with yourself. You may be a betwetting (figurative, of course) liberal, but it would seem you're not a lazy sack of shit.







XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

You want to know what's going on here, Roomy? In the USA, if she wants to maintain her sorry ass welfare benefits, she has to work from time to time. That's all she's doing... she's gaming the system. She's doing the absolutely minimum to get by & clearly refuses to do anything else. Did you not catch the part about her sister receiving benefits as well & living under her roof? Oh, that's right... you didn't read the article.








XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

FWIW, I never had anyone to tell me or show me how to do anything. You don't need the obvious pointed out to you. The lowliest lifeforms know they have to perform in order to survive. I posit that this woman IS performing... she's performing a song & dance for everyone & some folks enjoy the performance so damned much, they're willing to forget that it is indeed a performance... an act... a charade. They forget this & grant her celebrity victim status... she's free to live her lazy lifestyle & do next to nothing to ensure her own survival - aside from the victim performance, that is.[/QUOTE]

We all know self-righteous people. (And, if we are honest, many of us will admit to having wallowed in it ourselves, at least occassionaly)

Self-righteousness can become addictive. Any truly honest person will admit that it feels good. The pleasure of knowing, with absolute certainty, that you are right and your opponents are deeply, despicably wrong.

Are you addicted?:wink2:

shattered
02-16-2007, 10:59 AM
Now that she admits she is as guilty as anyone she may have been referring to, I may have jumped the gun.

Uh.. No.. AS guilty as whom I was referring to? I don't think so. I don't have anything I CAN'T afford, and I bust my ass for everything I DO have, without relying on others to hand me a single thing.

Roomy
02-16-2007, 11:10 AM
Ahh, thus my clarifier - "I'm not saying there's never an exception to the rule..." We're all guilty of it in some form or another...That one's just a bit extreme.. :D


This is what I was on about:chillpill:

Hagbard Celine
02-16-2007, 11:18 AM
Uh.. No.. AS guilty as whom I was referring to? I don't think so. I don't have anything I CAN'T afford, and I bust my ass for everything I DO have, without relying on others to hand me a single thing.

Shattered, I just can't seem to stop staring at your avatar's tits. :eek: :boobies:

shattered
02-16-2007, 11:29 AM
Shattered, I just can't seem to stop staring at your avatar's tits. :eek: :boobies:

Gee. Most people can't seem to stop staring at the halo...

Hagbard Celine
02-16-2007, 12:02 PM
Gee. Most people can't seem to stop staring at the halo...

I didn't notice the halo until you pointed it out. Did you know that you can see her ninners?

avatar4321
02-16-2007, 01:55 PM
Shattered, I just can't seem to stop staring at your avatar's tits. :eek: :boobies:

Id prefer real ones myself..

Hagbard Celine
02-16-2007, 02:29 PM
Id prefer real ones myself..

Well, you know it's fairly easy to find a plastic surgeon who would be willing to perform the surgery for you. :laugh:

Said1
02-16-2007, 09:56 PM
Hey, bub, I wasn't the only one who spent MONTHS looking for a job EVERYWHERE. That's pretty common during a recession. There is tremendous competition for even menial jobs at those times.

At the time I also was involved with a self help group for unemployed professionals, and many of them were unemployed for as long as I was, even longer, in some cases.

It's time you disabused yourself of the fairy tale that pulling yourself up by the bootstraps will magically yield results quickly, because that's just out of touch with reality.

:upyours:

Hey. I'm from Canada, you don't know the meaning of the word recession. :cheers2:

shattered
02-16-2007, 10:43 PM
I didn't notice the halo until you pointed it out. Did you know that you can see her ninners?

Good god.. How hard are you staring at the screen? *I* can't even see them, and I made the damned doll.

manu1959
02-16-2007, 10:50 PM
Hey. I'm from Canada, you don't know the meaning of the word recession. :cheers2:

to have a recession don't you actually have to have had a good economy at some point?:poke:

Yurt
02-16-2007, 10:52 PM
Good god.. How hard are you staring at the screen? *I* can't even see them, and I made the damned doll.

:bow3: :lmao:

Great reply

Said1
02-16-2007, 11:14 PM
to have a recession don't you actually have to have had a good economy at some point?:poke:

Yes. So, any time I look for a job, it's during THE recession. Duh.

loosecannon
03-27-2007, 01:14 AM
What an asshole!! :upyours:





Im just kidding. I understand your point of view. Sometimes people make mad decisions and cant seem to get out of them. I really think if you get welfare or food stamps you should be made to see a counselor once a month or so. Maybe attend a class to teach them just basic ideas...like NOT shopping at a convenience store!


But if you fuck up bigtime and get your nation embroiled in a war that can not be won, soldiers keep getting offed, we are sorta forced by circumstances to keep killing the very folks we claim to be liberating.....

well that is diffrunt, we had noble intensions....

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Get over yourselves. 95% of the people in the world are poor. And almost half of the reason that they are has nothing to do with choice. It has to do with greed.

For every person who inherits generational wealth, 20 or 40 inherit generational poverty.

25,000 kids die of starvation each day.

Almost half the world lives on an income of $2/day.

Eat the rich. or stfu

5stringJeff
03-27-2007, 10:51 AM
But if you fuck up bigtime and get your nation embroiled in a war that can not be won, soldiers keep getting offed, we are sorta forced by circumstances to keep killing the very folks we claim to be liberating.....

well that is diffrunt, we had noble intensions....

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Get over yourselves. 95% of the people in the world are poor. And almost half of the reason that they are has nothing to do with choice. It has to do with greed.

For every person who inherits generational wealth, 20 or 40 inherit generational poverty.

25,000 kids die of starvation each day.

Almost half the world lives on an income of $2/day.

Eat the rich. or stfu

So what was your point in all of that?

loosecannon
03-27-2007, 11:27 AM
So what was your point in all of that?


Responding to the thread starter. Disdain for the poor is like disdain for the sick or disdain for the dependence of newborns.

The poor are the vast majority. Disdain for the rich makes at least as much sense.

Hobbit
03-27-2007, 11:39 AM
Responding to the thread starter. Disdain for the poor is like disdain for the sick or disdain for the dependence of newborns.

The poor are the vast majority. Disdain for the rich makes at least as much sense.

No, because the sick and the newborns are not there by choice. Adult poor in the United States are poor because of the choices they have made, and they're not that poor besides. Then they spend their entire lives complaining about how they dont' have enough money and asking the government to take my money by force and give it to them. If they'd get off their lazy duffs and try to improve themselves instead of begging for handouts, maybe they wouldn't be poor anymore.

manu1959
03-27-2007, 11:40 AM
Responding to the thread starter. Disdain for the poor is like disdain for the sick or disdain for the dependence of newborns.

The poor are the vast majority. Disdain for the rich makes at least as much sense.

the thread starters disdain if for those that choose to be victims and choose to be poor....people do not choose to be sick and do not choose to be born so your analogy there is flawed....people choose to be rich by working hard

5stringJeff
03-27-2007, 12:23 PM
the thread starters disdain if for those that choose to be victims and choose to be poor....people do not choose to be sick and do not choose to be born so your analogy there is flawed....people choose to be rich by working hard

Word.

gabosaurus
03-27-2007, 12:31 PM
Let's see:
If you live in Dothan, Alabama, and a tornado destroys your house and your call, along with your emplyer's place of business, you are obviously POOR BY CHOICE!
If you are an invalid mother of two, and your husband (and provider) is killed by a drunk driver, you suddenly become POOR BY CHOICE!
If you are a mother of four, who has chosen to be a stay at home mom, and your husband is laid off, leading to your car and home being repossessed, you have suddenly become POOR BY CHOICE!

The Bush apologists will always look down on the poor. Until it happens to them.

manu1959
03-27-2007, 12:38 PM
Let's see:
If you live in Dothan, Alabama, and a tornado destroys your house and your call, along with your emplyer's place of business, you are obviously POOR BY CHOICE!
If you are an invalid mother of two, and your husband (and provider) is killed by a drunk driver, you suddenly become POOR BY CHOICE!
If you are a mother of four, who has chosen to be a stay at home mom, and your husband is laid off, leading to your car and home being repossessed, you have suddenly become POOR BY CHOICE!

The Bush apologists will always look down on the poor. Until it happens to them.

you are purposely being obtuse....we are talking about people that choose to be poor .... choose to be victims ... choose to blame others for their poor choices .... and now you change the topic yet again mixing apples and oranges.....i thought you all were the party of inteligence....i find it hard to believe this is too complex for you to understand

gabosaurus
03-27-2007, 12:42 PM
What about the people who choose to keep them poor? Who choose to lie, cheat and steal from American people? The corporate execs who cut jobs and endanger safety in the workplace in order to endure higher profits?
Your ignorance of the real working poor is pathetic.

Mr. P
03-27-2007, 12:42 PM
Let's see:
If you live in Dothan, Alabama, and a tornado destroys your house and your call, along with your emplyer's place of business, you are obviously POOR BY CHOICE!
Property Insurance!

If you are an invalid mother of two, and your husband (and provider) is killed by a drunk driver, you suddenly become POOR BY CHOICE!
Term Life Insurance!

If you are a mother of four, who has chosen to be a stay at home mom, and your husband is laid off, leading to your car and home being repossessed, you have suddenly become POOR BY CHOICE!
Savings!

The Bush apologists will always look down on the poor. Until it happens to them.
Which part of personal responsibilite don't you understand?

manu1959
03-27-2007, 12:46 PM
What about the people who choose to keep them poor? Who choose to lie, cheat and steal from American people? The corporate execs who cut jobs and endanger safety in the workplace in order to endure higher profits?
Your ignorance of the real working poor is pathetic.

i grew up working poor .... single parent working two jobs .... two kids ... i then worked my ass of to go to university in California then worked my ass off to go from 8 / hr in 1983 in the san francisco bay area....to my current comfortable life style...

i believe all these same evil people existed then ....hell ronnie raygun cut my scholarships in college...i chose to succeed....stop making excuses for the incompetent

GW in Ohio
03-27-2007, 12:51 PM
I'd guestimate 95% of poor are poor by choice.

There is no need to caricature or lampoon you guys as "fuck you" Republicans. You do it all yourselves.

95% of the poor are poor by choice? Oh, Jesus, some of you people are really something.

Now, there's no question that a percentage of the people who are poor are poor because they're too lazy or too addicted to better themselves.

But the vast majority of the poor are poor because of bad breaks, bad choices (like having too many children....you hold that against them, don't you?), or bad health. Are you going to say to them, "Tough shit.....you fucked up your life."

Okay, so some of you worked your way out of poverty. Good for you. A lot of people haven't, or can't for one reason or another, work their way out. You going to say to all of them, "You're out of luck; If I can do it, so can you"?

While I don't want to create permanent wards of the state, and I supported welfare reform, I don't want us as a society to turn our backs on the poor. For many of them, all they need is a hand up, to get back on their feet. I say we as a society should give these people a second chance.

Hobbit
03-27-2007, 12:58 PM
There is no need to caricature or lampoon you guys as "fuck you" Republicans. You do it all yourselves.

95% of the poor are poor by choice? Oh, Jesus, some of you people are really something.

Now, there's no question that a percentage of the people who are poor are poor because they're too lazy or too addicted to better themselves.

But the vast majority of the poor are poor because of bad breaks, bad choices (like having too many children....you hold that against them, don't you?), or bad health. Are you going to say to them, "Tough shit.....you fucked up your life."

Okay, so some of you worked your way out of poverty. Good for you. A lot of people haven't, or can't for one reason or another, work their way out. You going to say to all of them, "You're out of luck; If I can do it, so can you"?

While I don't want to create permanent wards of the state, and I supported welfare reform, I don't want us as a society to turn our backs on the poor. For many of them, all they need is a hand up, to get back on their feet. I say we as a society should give these people a second chance.

You said it yourself...BAD FRICKIN' CHOICES! It's called personal responsibility. If your choices (and yes, choosing to sleep around and get pregnant is a CHOICE) lead you to a bad situation, tough cookies. I'll help you out, but only if you show enough responsibility to make something of that help.

Kathianne
03-27-2007, 01:04 PM
You said it yourself...BAD FRICKIN' CHOICES! It's called personal responsibility. If your choices (and yes, choosing to sleep around and get pregnant is a CHOICE) lead you to a bad situation, tough cookies. I'll help you out, but only if you show enough responsibility to make something of that help.

I have to agree. Yes, many are born into poverty or find themselves in poverty due to circumstances. The question is then, what choices are made? Are the children encourage to excel in school, regardless of how poor the teachers are or facilities? Are programs for updating/acquiring skills available through the county/state/fed used? If possessing low skills, does one get to work on time, with clean appearance? Work as hard as if this position was a 'stepping stone'?

So many choices are there.

loosecannon
03-27-2007, 01:06 PM
the thread starters disdain if for those that choose to be victims and choose to be poor....people do not choose to be sick and do not choose to be born so your analogy there is flawed....people choose to be rich by working hard

People don't choose to be poor either. And the consequences of one man's wealth is the poverty of many others.

There are limited resources and limited currency.

Everybody can not "lift themselves up from their boot straps". And even the most ardent capitalists admit that born abilities play a major role in peoples success and failure.

If everybody lifted themselves up by their boot straps the average income today would be $10,000/year/capita.

And that IS limited by resource capacity.

Mr. P
03-27-2007, 01:08 PM
I have to agree. Yes, many are born into poverty or find themselves in poverty due to circumstances. The question is then, what choices are made? Are the children encourage to excel in school, regardless of how poor the teachers are or facilities? Are programs for updating/acquiring skills available through the county/state/fed used? If possessing low skills, does one get to work on time, with clean appearance? Work as hard as if this position was a 'stepping stone'?

So many choices are there.

And lets not forget the personal drive and determination to do better.
Where there's a will, there's a way.

Kathianne
03-27-2007, 01:11 PM
And lets not forget the personal drive and determination to do better.
Where there's a will, there's a way.

Agreed. It's incumbent on parents that find themselves in poverty, to help instill that personal drive, determination, and self-discipline so their children know how to succeed.

Hobbit
03-27-2007, 01:14 PM
People don't choose to be poor either. And the consequences of one man's wealth is the poverty of many others.

There are limited resources and limited currency.

Everybody can not "lift themselves up from their boot straps". And even the most ardent capitalists admit that born abilities play a major role in peoples success and failure.

If everybody lifted themselves up by their boot straps the average income today would be $10,000/year/capita.

And that IS limited by resource capacity.

That is zero-sum thinking, and its idiocy is only topped by your faux definition of capitalism.

loosecannon
03-27-2007, 01:18 PM
That is zero-sum thinking, and its idiocy is only topped by your faux definition of capitalism.

Nope, the earth's economy actually is finite at every given moment. It is limited by available resources.

The idea that there is an unlimited potential for growth is a falacy toward it's conclusion and an abstraction throughout it's duration.

manu1959
03-27-2007, 01:19 PM
People don't choose to be poor either. And the consequences of one man's wealth is the poverty of many others.

There are limited resources and limited currency.

Everybody can not "lift themselves up from their boot straps". And even the most ardent capitalists admit that born abilities play a major role in peoples success and failure.

If everybody lifted themselves up by their boot straps the average income today would be $10,000/year/capita.

And that IS limited by resource capacity.

you are so full of yourself.....you grew up rich didn't you.....never had a job in your life....and you pretend to lecture me

manu1959
03-27-2007, 01:20 PM
Nope, the earth's economy actually is finite at every given moment. It is limited by available resources.

The idea that there is an unlimited potential for growth is a falacy toward it's conclusion and an abstraction throughout it's duration.

well then we should just quit right now

loosecannon
03-27-2007, 01:24 PM
i grew up working poor .... single parent working two jobs .... two kids ... i then worked my ass of to go to university in California then worked my ass off to go from 8 / hr in 1983 in the san francisco bay area....to my current comfortable life style...

....stop making excuses for the incompetent

Congratulation.

BUT, 85% of your wealth was unearned. It came to you by virtue of living in the worlds richest nation.

And among the 15% that you actually did earn by apparently hard work and dedication you were the product of a system that is not designed to produce success.

It is designed to produce success and failure both at once.

Not every person can graduate from college with a degree. The purpose of college is to sort out a class of more capable, conformed citizens from the bulk of less intelligent, less capable and then to reward both groups with different sets of opportunities.

It is purely a wild and erroneous falacy that everybody can succeed at the same level by virtue of hard work.

Congrats for your successes. But the system is designed to reward you while effectively punishing others who may actually work considerably harder than you do for each dollar thet they earn.

manu1959
03-27-2007, 01:26 PM
Congratulation.

BUT, 85% of your wealth was unearned. It came to you by virtue of living in the worlds richest nation.

And among the 15% that you actually did earn by apparently hard work and dedication you were the product of a system that is not designed to produce success.

It is designed to produce success and failure both at once.

Not every person can graduate from college with a degree. The purpose of college is to sort out a class of more capable, conformed citizens from the bulk of less intelligent, less capable and then to reward both groups with different sets of opportunities.

It is purely a wild and erroneous falacy that everybody can succeed at the same level by virtue of hard work.

Congrats for your successes. But the system is designed to reward you while effectively punishing others who may actually work considerably harder than you do for each dollar thet they earn.

wow....you must be miserable to live with....looks like i should move to bremuda

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