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gabosaurus
12-18-2007, 03:04 PM
NON-CONFRONTATIONAL question here. If you have older kids, did you encourage them to pursue military careers? If you have younger kids, will you encourage them?

I ask this partially because of some of the current topics in this forum, and partially because the high school where the 16-year-old girl my sister has guardianship over had an assembly on Monday where military careers were discussed.
She declined to talk to any of the recruiters because she wants to pursue a career in architectural design. And has already been offered a full college scholarship.

I am not going to encourage my daughter to do so either. I have nothing against those who volunteer to help defend our country. I would rather have my daughter pursue an education and then be part of the work force that helps run our country.

Your mileage may vary. :)

glockmail
12-18-2007, 03:09 PM
My son's 15 and I am actively encouraging him to the Air Force Academy, Naval Academy, or ROTC while in college for aerospace engineering. His dream is to fly a fighter plane and then design planes.

manu1959
12-18-2007, 03:11 PM
i have little kids.....i encouarge them to persue what they are interested in....and do not preasure them nor discourage them from any particular interest....if either of them decides on a military carrer....then i will support that choice.....

after all i am pro choice....


NON-CONFRONTATIONAL question here. If you have older kids, did you encourage them to pursue military careers? If you have younger kids, will you encourage them?

I ask this partially because of some of the current topics in this forum, and partially because the high school where the 16-year-old girl my sister has guardianship over had an assembly on Monday where military careers were discussed.
She declined to talk to any of the recruiters because she wants to pursue a career in architectural design. And has already been offered a full college scholarship.

I am not going to encourage my daughter to do so either. I have nothing against those who volunteer to help defend our country. I would rather have my daughter pursue an education and then be part of the work force that helps run our country.

Your mileage may vary. :)

Hagbard Celine
12-18-2007, 03:12 PM
My parents discouraged me. I have a bad eye so if I had joined I wouldn't have been able to do anything cool anyway. I think they require 20/20 vision if other people's lives are going to be in your hands. They'd have stuck me behind a desk as a cog in the bureacracy. *Pthppbbbbbbbbppbbb!* Ugh. I've got to get out of this cubicle.

5stringJeff
12-18-2007, 03:16 PM
I have talked with my daughter about it briefly, but she shows absolutely no signs of interest. Then again, at 14, neither did I.

I am hoping that one or both of my two sons follows in my West Point footsteps.

Mr. P
12-18-2007, 03:17 PM
NON-CONFRONTATIONAL question here. If you have older kids, did you encourage them to pursue military careers? If you have younger kids, will you encourage them?

I ask this partially because of some of the current topics in this forum, and partially because the high school where the 16-year-old girl my sister has guardianship over had an assembly on Monday where military careers were discussed.
She declined to talk to any of the recruiters because she wants to pursue a career in architectural design. And has already been offered a full college scholarship.

I am not going to encourage my daughter to do so either. I have nothing against those who volunteer to help defend our country. I would rather have my daughter pursue an education and then be part of the work force that helps run our country.

Your mileage may vary. :)

Just joining does not mean a career.

One of my best friends joined the Navy and they payed for his Med school, then he served 6 yrs and got out.

I joined and they payed for a great deal of my flight training, about $350K back then, I served 3 additional yrs an got out.

We, and thousands more, joined the civilian work force that runs the Country.

There are benefits to service.

gabosaurus
12-18-2007, 03:24 PM
Very true, Mr. P. Thank you for making that point. :)
Then again, if an institution has already offered to pay for your education, you don't need to worry about it.

darin
12-18-2007, 03:24 PM
I would rather have my daughter pursue an education and then be part of the work force that helps run our country.



The Military provides an education unlike ANY available through college or university. Why not encourage both?

I'll hand-out information to my kids, as they age, to help set themselves up for success. If my son or daughter thinks about taking advantage of the life-experience, technical knowledge, and traditional education benefits of service, I'll also remind them of the moral, ethical, and other intangible benefits of service.

:)

Hagbard Celine
12-18-2007, 03:31 PM
The Military provides an education unlike ANY available through college or university.

Then again, if they get their limbs or face melted off fighting for God-knows-what their lives will be ruined so the point would be moot. :dunno:

avatar4321
12-18-2007, 03:33 PM
if my children want to, then yes i will encourage them to do their best in it.

darin
12-18-2007, 03:35 PM
Then again, if they get their limbs or face melted off fighting for God-knows-what their lives will be ruined so the point would be moot. :dunno:

Dude - you won't like this, but yours is SUCH a godless-liberal response. Either way, I've met people who say their war wounds SAVED them...made them better.

Trigg
12-18-2007, 03:41 PM
Then again, if an institution has already offered to pay for your education, you don't need to worry about it.


My son (14) is curious about the Air Force Academy and although it is to far away for my taste if that is what he wants to do, I will not stand in his way.

We have told him that if he wants to join and doesn't make it into the Academy, since it's very hard to get in, we would like him to go to college and then join since he can then join as an officer. They pay off college debt also, which is a plus.

I have a feeling that even if my son gets a scholership he is still going to be interrested in the Air Force. But who knows things could change. His best friend's dad is career Air Force and getting ready to retire next year at 40.

Hagbard Celine
12-18-2007, 03:43 PM
Dude - you won't like this, but yours is SUCH a godless-liberal response. Either way, I've met people who say their war wounds SAVED them...made them better.

I'd say it's a logical one.

Trigg
12-18-2007, 03:43 PM
Then again, if they get their limbs or face melted off fighting for God-knows-what their lives will be ruined so the point would be moot. :dunno:

Navy and Air Force are almost never in the fighting.

darin
12-18-2007, 03:52 PM
I'd say it's a logical one.

Of course you would.

Hagbard Celine
12-18-2007, 03:52 PM
Navy and Air Force are almost never in the fighting.

Yeah, but they get called things like "seamen" and "chairforce" by the other, tougher branches.

Trigg
12-18-2007, 03:58 PM
Yeah, but they get called things like "seamen" and "chairforce" by the other, tougher branches.

As long as he avoids getting shot at, I don't care what they call him.

I like the Air Force uniforms, the Navy's well :gay:.

retiredman
12-18-2007, 04:18 PM
I recommended serving in the US Navy to all three of my children.

glockmail
12-18-2007, 04:28 PM
Navy and Air Force are almost never in the fighting. Tell that to the pilots flying through flak and the sailors of the USS Cole.

manu1959
12-18-2007, 04:34 PM
Tell that to the pilots flying through flak and the sailors of the USS Cole.

it ain't like pounding ground and taking an HQ....my grand dad used to say if you aint wearin green you are pussy....

hjmick
12-18-2007, 04:34 PM
I would neither encourage nor discourage my daughters from enlisting. Were any of them to come to me and express an interest in serving, I would give them what advice I could, my opinion if asked, and I would encourage them to do as much research as they could and some serious soul searching before signing on the proverbial dotted line. It is not a decision to be taken lightly and requires a level of commitment that some folks are not prepared to give.

To serve our country and to make a career of serving our country, are both noble callings.

glockmail
12-18-2007, 04:36 PM
it ain't like pounding ground and taking an HQ....my grand dad used to say if you aint wearin green you are pussy....
I'm sure that he did. :salute:

gabosaurus
12-18-2007, 04:37 PM
Then again, if they get their limbs or face melted off fighting for God-knows-what their lives will be ruined so the point would be moot. :dunno:

Hag please, I am trying to make this a non-confrontational, information only thread. Do not take it off center. :)

gabosaurus
12-18-2007, 04:38 PM
I would neither encourage nor discourage my daughters from enlisting. Were any of them to come to me and express an interest in serving, I would give them what advice I could, my opinion if asked, and I would encourage them to do as much research as they could and some serious soul searching before signing on the proverbial dotted line. It is not a decision to be taken lightly and requires a level of commitment that some folks are not prepared to give.

To serve our country and to make a creer of serving our country, are both noble callings.

Another awesome post by hjmick! Thanks for that opinion.

manu1959
12-18-2007, 04:39 PM
I'm sure that he did. :salute:

sgt in the artillary in WWII....dude was one tough old bastard....and as sweet as can be....miss that guy

Hagbard Celine
12-18-2007, 04:40 PM
Hag please, I am trying to make this a non-confrontational, information only thread. Do not take it off center. :)

If my statement doesn't meet your pc standards then I'm sorry. I don't think it was an unrealistic statement though. I assume that this thread isn't just about listing the virtues of joining up. You can't ignore that fact that joining the military exposes you to the very real danger of getting your face melted off.

gabosaurus
12-18-2007, 04:41 PM
I asked a VERY SIMPLE question -- would you encourage your kids to enlist. I was not seeking editorial comments. I stated that in my first post.

glockmail
12-18-2007, 04:42 PM
If my statement doesn't meet your pc standards then I'm sorry. I don't think it was an unrealistic statement though. I assume that this thread isn't just about listing the virtues of joining up. You can't ignore that fact that joining the military exposes you to the very real danger of getting your face melted off. Driving on the highway is more dangerous.

Mr. P
12-18-2007, 04:50 PM
Very true, Mr. P. Thank you for making that point. :)
Then again, if an institution has already offered to pay for your education, you don't need to worry about it.

True, but many feel the obligation of service as a payment for education or training...don't liberals wanna 'give back'? What is payed back to an institution that provides a scholarship?

hjmick
12-18-2007, 04:54 PM
Driving on the highway is more dangerous.

Ban cars.

gabosaurus
12-18-2007, 04:54 PM
Not everyone receives a scholarship. Most of offered as a reward for outstanding talent and scholarship.
I could have never attended a prestigious school like Cal without financial aid. My high school academic record earned me a full scholarship.
That is what I like about academia -- there is always a way to earn an education, regardless of your financial situation.

Mr. P
12-18-2007, 05:08 PM
Not everyone receives a scholarship. Most of offered as a reward for outstanding talent and scholarship.
I could have never attended a prestigious school like Cal without financial aid. My high school academic record earned me a full scholarship.
That is what I like about academia -- there is always a way to earn an education, regardless of your financial situation.

In the military they all do. You can be rich or poor and serve...and still receive a fine education/ training if you choose to do so. Of course it's like anything else, you must apply yourself.

gabosaurus
12-18-2007, 05:36 PM
Academics is the great equalizer. You can be rich or poor, male or female, black or white, any ethnicity. If you have good grades and an outstanding record of personal achievement, you can attend any school you want. While attending USC, my sister lived with a girl from a single-parent family in Compton and a girl from India.
The military offers equal academic opportunities, for those who wish take apply themselves.

Kathianne
12-18-2007, 05:46 PM
NON-CONFRONTATIONAL question here. If you have older kids, did you encourage them to pursue military careers? If you have younger kids, will you encourage them?

I ask this partially because of some of the current topics in this forum, and partially because the high school where the 16-year-old girl my sister has guardianship over had an assembly on Monday where military careers were discussed.
She declined to talk to any of the recruiters because she wants to pursue a career in architectural design. And has already been offered a full college scholarship.

I am not going to encourage my daughter to do so either. I have nothing against those who volunteer to help defend our country. I would rather have my daughter pursue an education and then be part of the work force that helps run our country.

Your mileage may vary. :)

I'll take that the way you presented it. My daughter and my youngest son have both contemplated the military. My daughter actually signed up for early entry, as a senior in high school. I didn't encourage it, though allowed the recruiter to talk to both of us in our home.

As the date drew closer, her misgivings rose. My mom and dad both lived with us by then, my dad was not happy in the army and he was beside himself and sharing. Luckily for both her and the army, she truly freaked about a week before she was to leave. Also fortunate for her, her best friend's dad was a Colonel in the Army and still in Reserves. He called some general friend and they pulled her out, with a notation NEVER to apply again.

My youngest son still hasn't ruled it out, though like you, he thinks Iraq was the wrong war at the wrong time. He has two friends now that have graduated from West Point and they keep talking. I encouraged him to get his degree first. He is about a year from graduation and has two promises for jobs and other possibilities. We were talking last night, he still hasn't ruled out the military, since his degree with be 'criminal justice' and he's interested in law he thinks it might be a good choice and he thinks they need people like him. He knows that his 'smartest' friends agree too.

You might find this interesting, another friend of my son, who will also be graduating from university in about a year, at Stanford. Majoring in International Relations, currently interning in D.C., is also considering enlisting after graduation. He's more like me in thinking Bush's thinking was right, execution was wrong. Also like me he's open to working for those he disagrees with, he spent 6 months in a UN project in Africa. Speaking with him Sunday night his comment on the UN leadership, 'great ideas, the execution is non-existent. They make Bush look like a genius.' Actually the last part was direct quote. ;)

Hagbard Celine
12-18-2007, 05:49 PM
In the military they all do. You can be rich or poor and serve...and still receive a fine education/ training if you choose to do so. Of course it's like anything else, you must apply yourself.

That may be but there is a huge downside. You don't exactly get the scholarship if you don't survive being dropped off in the war zone.

gabosaurus
12-18-2007, 06:03 PM
Thanks Kathianne. Excellent example.

Hag, academia is the same way. If you attend a school on scholarship and end up blowing someone's face off with a gun, you probably don't get invited back.

April15
12-18-2007, 06:05 PM
Two of my daughters went into the service to finish up school and become nurses. Neither became a nurse. One is a lab tech as her military training would not transfer over to civilian service and the other was very disgusted with what training they provided, a tank driver. Very disappointing to me as both were a/b students in college.

darin
12-18-2007, 06:16 PM
Are you not in the USA, April? We don't allow Females to drive tanks. If she 'chose' to drive a tank, that's on her. :)

Said1
12-18-2007, 06:29 PM
NON-CONFRONTATIONAL question here. If you have older kids, did you encourage them to pursue military careers? If you have younger kids, will you encourage them?

I ask this partially because of some of the current topics in this forum, and partially because the high school where the 16-year-old girl my sister has guardianship over had an assembly on Monday where military careers were discussed.
She declined to talk to any of the recruiters because she wants to pursue a career in architectural design. And has already been offered a full college scholarship.

I am not going to encourage my daughter to do so either. I have nothing against those who volunteer to help defend our country. I would rather have my daughter pursue an education and then be part of the work force that helps run our country.

Your mileage may vary. :)

Interesting question. I dabbled with the same idea that LN has withrespect to the military and education. The only problem was that both school counselors and my mother were seriously AGAINST the idea. I even had a teacher who told me I probably couldn't pass the pre-application test because he failed. Everyone I spoke to about the idea was against it until I eventually became so discouraged I gave up. What was sad was how often I was told I woud fail.

Kathianne
12-18-2007, 06:31 PM
Interesting question. I dabbled with the same idea that LN has withrespect to the military and education. The only problem was that both school counselors and my mother were seriously AGAINST the idea. I even had a teacher who told me I probably couldn't pass the pre-application test because he failed. Everyone I spoke to about the idea was against it until I eventually became so discouraged I gave up. What was sad was how often I was told I woud fail.

I wish the opportunity had been there when I was 18. Actually I guess 22, but then I was planning on getting married,....

gabosaurus
12-18-2007, 06:37 PM
Why are women not allowed to drive tanks? That is pretty sexist. Women can do anything that men can do, outside of things that require raw physical strength.

darin
12-18-2007, 06:47 PM
Gabby, you're a sexist - why do you think women aren't allowed in traditional-combat jobs in the Army? Women CANNOT do 'anything a man can do' - They cannot be a Dad. :)

Said1
12-18-2007, 06:49 PM
Why are women not allowed to drive tanks? That is pretty sexist. Women can do anything that men can do, outside of things that require raw physical strength.

Yeah. Boys stink.

manu1959
12-18-2007, 06:50 PM
Why are women not allowed to drive tanks? That is pretty sexist. Women can do anything that men can do, outside of things that require raw physical strength.

can't write their name in the snow with pee.....

darin
12-18-2007, 06:51 PM
can't write their name in the snow with pee.....

The Iranian President - Imadinnerjacket - can't either, apart from having consumed 20 gallons of water first. :)

gabosaurus
12-18-2007, 06:54 PM
Now you are just being ridiculous. Your male ego is upset that I run circles around you, logic wise. :)

Mr. P
12-18-2007, 07:20 PM
Yeah. Boys stink.

And GIRLS have COOTIES!

Said1
12-18-2007, 07:47 PM
And GIRLS have COOTIES!

Yes. But cooties don't smell. You stink. So there.

AFbombloader
12-18-2007, 09:10 PM
I have to look at this question from three different angles. One, I am a parent. Two, I am a 19 year Air Force member. And Three, I have been a recruiter for the past two years.


As aparent I feel it is my responsibility to support my sons in whatver they want to do. Even if I do not agree with it 100%. I have talked to my older son, my younger one is not qualified for service because of congenital cararacts at birth. My older son is interested, but we are asking him keep his options open. I enlisted right out of high school, but would like him to go the officer route. I know what I am dealing with when it comes to that and it is worth it in the long run. He is interested in the AF Academy, but is also interested in other schools, which is where he differs from me. I was so done with school I couldn't ship out fast enough! As a career Airman, that is what we are called (not chairforce) I would like him to follow me into this branch. I would have strong feelings if he chose not to, but it is his decision not mine. He will need to make the choice and live with whatever happens. As a recruiter, I would be a hypocrite if I did not support my son while I put yours into the AF.

If anyone has any questions about what we do offer, because information is easily mixed up or wrong, please ask. I will not push the AF, if your son/daughter chooses to serve in any branch, God bless them.

AIM HIGH
AF:salute:

Kathianne
12-18-2007, 09:54 PM
I have to look at this question from three different angles. One, I am a parent. Two, I am a 19 year Air Force member. And Three, I have been a recruiter for the past two years.


As aparent I feel it is my responsibility to support my sons in whatver they want to do. Even if I do not agree with it 100%. I have talked to my older son, my younger one is not qualified for service because of congenital cararacts at birth. My older son is interested, but we are asking him keep his options open. I enlisted right out of high school, but would like him to go the officer route. I know what I am dealing with when it comes to that and it is worth it in the long run. He is interested in the AF Academy, but is also interested in other schools, which is where he differs from me. I was so done with school I couldn't ship out fast enough! As a career Airman, that is what we are called (not chairforce) I would like him to follow me into this branch. I would have strong feelings if he chose not to, but it is his decision not mine. He will need to make the choice and live with whatever happens. As a recruiter, I would be a hypocrite if I did not support my son while I put yours into the AF.

If anyone has any questions about what we do offer, because information is easily mixed up or wrong, please ask. I will not push the AF, if your son/daughter chooses to serve in any branch, God bless them.

AIM HIGH
AF:salute:
Coming from my take, all my kids are beyond middle school/high school. If your child is exceptionally bright and motivated, meaning performing well above grade level, if you haven't personal reasons for discouraging, you might well educate yourself on the benefits of the military academies. *Note* if your child is beyond freshman, it will be hard for the to qualify. The parameters are difficult, for reasons.

Mr. P
12-18-2007, 10:04 PM
Yes. But cooties don't smell. You stink. So there.

:laugh2: Men Stink? :laugh2: You reminded me of a very tasteless joke...

So much so I can't post it. So there infinity! :laugh2:

theHawk
12-18-2007, 11:02 PM
I am not going to encourage my daughter to do so either. I have nothing against those who volunteer to help defend our country. I would rather have my daughter pursue an education and then be part of the work force that helps run our country.

I don't know why you'd think people in the military don't have an education. More and more these days people are coming in with at least some college. Heck, I enlisted after I got my bachelors degree. And nowadays in the military its pretty darn tough to make the higher ranks on the enlisted side without some type of degree, at least thats the way it is in the Air Force.

And you should also remember that a "career" in the military is 20-25 years MAX. There is life after the military. Just about every civilian I work with now is retired military. It must be nice for them to get that military retirement check along with their normal check when they're just 40 years old!

pegwinn
12-18-2007, 11:16 PM
NON-CONFRONTATIONAL question here. If you have older kids, did you encourage them to pursue military careers? If you have younger kids, will you encourage them?

I very pointedly did not do anything to encourage my kids to enlist except set an example. My son has zero interest in the service. My oldest daughter enlisted in the Marines, then married one, and are due in tonight with my new grand daughter.:dance: My youngest daughter is 17 and is going to enlist in the Marines as well. Once the girls showed an interest I became the info-meter and the bullshit meter. So I answered questions, looked up regs, and I know my youngest kids recruiter from back in the day. He has seen a side of me that my kids haven't. He understands that if he fucks over my kid, they will never find his body.

So, I was neutral. My official advice all along was to leave no option unchecked and to do what was best for them. In my case, service was best since I was an 18 y/o tough guy with no college prospects.

BTW, I am damn proud of all my kids.


Then again, if they get their limbs or face melted off fighting for God-knows-what their lives will be ruined so the point would be moot. :dunno:

It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived. George S. Patton (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/g/georgespa124797.html)


Ban cars.

With the exception of Mustangs made from 64 to 71 and anything with the word COBRA, BOSS, and GT.


Why are women not allowed to drive tanks? That is pretty sexist. Women can do anything that men can do, outside of things that require raw physical strength.

It is not sexist. It's practical. Women are not as strong as men except in very rare circumstances. Busting Tracks, humping arty rounds, humping a 240G or even a lightweight M249 are only a few things women cannot do well enough to meet the non-gender norms established in theater. Women in the field require a larger logistical footprint. Men have a hardwired instinct to protect women which can lead to problems under fire.

No one will question a females courage or ability to be trained. Just ask the Israelis.

Yurt
12-18-2007, 11:28 PM
If I had a kid and they were interested, yes I would encourage it. My dad was in the airforce, but for what ever reason, when he got out (despite full GI bill, $$/mo and paid school, health for a while for fam) he made it his goal to have me not join. So I grew up thinking, oh no, can't join. Even after I told him about the marines who gave me my first drink, he thought it was funny and cool, but then when I told him about joining, he was very lukewarm. Said he did not like authority, and did not like they way they broke you down in boot camp.

I had the chance to join the airforce at 20, but did not because I allowed my father's misgivings to sway me. I look back and think, man, I could have had my entire college paid for, gained invaluable experience, etc.... I again, almost joined the reserves in 98 because my friend was doing it and getting pretty good pay and learning to kick ass (that is what he said). Again, I didn't. Do I regret it? Can't really, choice is already made.

So, I would encourage my kid to do whatever they want and not put a hinderance on any their goals. I am not saying my dad did, in fact I doubt he intended it, it was just his experience.

gabosaurus
12-19-2007, 02:05 AM
I have seen both sides of the issue.
One of my dad's best friends, the best man in his wedding, served in Viet Nam. He did not encourage his son to join the military. What he did do was discuss his experiences. His son joined the military (Navy, I believe) and is still there.
At the same time, I have worked with two high-school aged boys who were hospitalized because of suicide attempts. One had been brow-beaten because he showed no interest in joining the Marines. His father (and several generations back) had been Marines, and he was expected to do the same. The kid wanted a career in orchestra.
When told his son suffered from depression, the father insisted that he was "just a cowardly pussy." Apparently his "duty" was to become a Marine. And that he didn't have a choice. In his present state, the kid was "a disgrace to his family."

I used to think that parents like that were just in the movies. Apparently not.

Trigg
12-19-2007, 03:13 PM
I don't know why you'd think people in the military don't have an education. More and more these days people are coming in with at least some college. Heck, I enlisted after I got my bachelors degree. And nowadays in the military its pretty darn tough to make the higher ranks on the enlisted side without some type of degree, at least thats the way it is in the Air Force.

And you should also remember that a "career" in the military is 20-25 years MAX. There is life after the military. Just about every civilian I work with now is retired military. It must be nice for them to get that military retirement check along with their normal check when they're just 40 years old!


Very true.

In fact, the Radiologist I work with went into the Air Force after medical school. He didn't re-enlist, although according to him he thought long and hard about doing just that.

Trigg
12-19-2007, 03:18 PM
Why are women not allowed to drive tanks? That is pretty sexist. Women can do anything that men can do, outside of things that require raw physical strength.

They don't want women on the front lines, that's why.

It's not sexist to admit that women are not as physically strong as men. Our media would have a field day with women being kidnapped and raped, especially if they were against the war the US was involved in.

Nukeman
12-19-2007, 03:25 PM
They don't want women on the front lines, that's why.

It's not sexist to admit that women are not as physically strong as men. Our media would have a field day with women being kidnapped and raped, especially if they were against the war the US was involved in.
This is so true!!!! I cant thin of anything to add!!!!!!!!!:clap::clap:

Hagbard Celine
12-19-2007, 03:56 PM
This is so true!!!! I cant thin of anything to add!!!!!!!!!:clap::clap:

If they allowed women out on the front lines, it'd be back to the time of "rape and pillage" again. Especially if all female personnel looked like this:
http://dvdtoile.com/ARTISTES/0/752.jpg

darin
12-19-2007, 03:59 PM
Two of my daughters went into the service to finish up school and become nurses. Neither became a nurse. One is a lab tech as her military training would not transfer over to civilian service and the other was very disgusted with what training they provided, a tank driver. Very disappointing to me as both were a/b students in college.

still curious how his daughter became a 'tank driver' by force...

gabosaurus
12-20-2007, 12:46 PM
Maybe she ended up marrying a tank driver.

AFbombloader
12-20-2007, 03:37 PM
Why are women not allowed to drive tanks? That is pretty sexist. Women can do anything that men can do, outside of things that require raw physical strength.

Congress has determined that women cannot serve in any direct combat career field. In the Air Force it is only a handfull of AFSC's, our special forces. I won't try and speak for the other branches, but I do know that it is "combat" jobs.


AF:salute:

Kathianne
12-20-2007, 04:29 PM
Coming from my take, all my kids are beyond middle school/high school. If your child is exceptionally bright and motivated, meaning performing well above grade level, if you haven't personal reasons for discouraging, you might well educate yourself on the benefits of the military academies. *Note* if your child is beyond freshman, it will be hard for the to qualify. The parameters are difficult, for reasons.

Wow, I just was reading through the thread and so my totally stupid response here. Sometimes I just read a phrase and reply too damn fast. Apologies AFBomber.

AFbombloader
12-20-2007, 05:01 PM
Wow, I just was reading through the thread and so my totally stupid response here. Sometimes I just read a phrase and reply too damn fast. Apologies AFBomber.

To quote the venerable,Chick Hearn "No harm, no foul."


AF:salute:

gabosaurus
12-20-2007, 05:56 PM
If we had a trained combat group of Lorena Bobbits, the evil Muslims would be quaking in their tents.

actsnoblemartin
12-20-2007, 06:57 PM
that is classic

nice job gabo

:clap: :lol: :coffee:


If we had a trained combat group of Lorena Bobbits, the evil Muslims would be quaking in their tents.

glockmail
12-20-2007, 07:16 PM
If we had a trained combat group of Lorena Bobbits, the evil Muslims would be quaking in their tents. Packing microscopes.

nevadamedic
12-21-2007, 04:13 AM
Packing microscopes.

How would you know? :laugh2:

glockmail
12-21-2007, 08:51 AM
How would you know? :laugh2: Just an assumption based on their behavior, especially attitudes about women. Needle dicks can't satisfy women so they need to subjugate them.

actsnoblemartin
12-21-2007, 04:46 PM
from what ive seen, it is men with big cocks who are the most degrading to women in real life and on the internet.

same as a woman with big tits vs small tits, in her attitude towards men


Just an assumption based on their behavior, especially attitudes about women. Needle dicks can't satisfy women so they need to subjugate them.

Kathianne
12-21-2007, 04:50 PM
from what ive seen, it is men with big cocks who are the most degrading to women in real life and on the internet.

same as a woman with big tits vs small tits, in her attitude towards men

That would be selective reading. In case you forgot, the topic YOU CHOSE was whether or not one would encourage their children to join the military. Many of us responded, now you are derailing. Why?

actsnoblemartin
12-21-2007, 04:57 PM
im not the one who started it.

I was just responding to someone's assertion.


That would be selective reading. In case you forgot, the topic YOU CHOSE was whether or not one would encourage their children to join the military. Many of us responded, now you are derailing. Why?

Pale Rider
12-22-2007, 02:23 AM
NON-CONFRONTATIONAL question here. If you have older kids, did you encourage them to pursue military careers? If you have younger kids, will you encourage them? :)

Didn't have to really. My son decided to join the Army all on his own. Did his three years active duty, broke his leg practically off below the knee on active duty and has a titanium rod in it now, and is a service connected disabled vet just like his Paw.

darin
12-22-2007, 12:48 PM
im not the one who started it.

I was just responding to someone's assertion.

removed from thread - you're taking this thread in places it never intended to go.

gabosaurus
12-22-2007, 12:58 PM
Didn't have to really. My son decided to join the Army all on his own. Did his three years active duty, broke his leg practically off below the knee on active duty and has a titanium rod in it now, and is a service connected disabled vet just like his Paw.

I hope both of you are receiving good treatment. I respect those who join the military out of free choice.

LiberalNation
12-25-2007, 11:34 AM
My parents didn't encourage me to join. Actually none of the adults in the family have really encouraged their kids to join. My great grandpa was in the army, grandpa in the navy during WW2, uncle was in the airforce, another in the army, my dad was in the army, cousin whose a marine. They all said it sucked and discouraged me/us.

rppearso
01-26-2008, 10:50 PM
I would never encourage anyone to join. There is a dark side of the military, that is if you hate it and want out your discharge status can haunt you much more than if you just never joined in the first place. ALMOST anything you can do in the military you can do as a civilian, I would encourage anyone to go to college and get an education, student loans are not that big of a deal compared to the degraded lifestyle that CAN be imposed on you if you are GI. I dont know of any flight training that costs 350K even for a jet rating, either you were being extorted or that includes the cost of a really nice plane, you can get an acrobatic aircraft that can outperform a fighter in terms of manuverablity, if you ever go to an air show the private acrobatic pilots are way more impressive than a fighter "going fast", the thunder birds and blue angles are impressive but the chances of becomming a pilot for that group is like winning a million dollars at rippie world in a mall. The military glamorizes a hand full of jobs that very few people have on there commercials and ALMOST completely leave out the numerious negitive daily aspects of military life. If you have a valuable skill and a non-basket weaving degree you will make tons more in the civilian world than you ever could in the military, I make about as much as a major and im 26 because I have an engineering degree. The military is by in large a bad deal after all the smoke clears unless you have a degree that is not so usefull in the civilian sector. Service academys are equally bad, I always wanted to go to the air force academy myself and ended up going to the colorado school of mines and toured the academy and was so happy I never made it (i would have probably quite the first week anyhow and wasted a year of my life trying to get into a real school the following academic year) in the BS meter was so high it was not even funny. I have a friend in the coast guard and he says its pretty good, no forced deployments (only voluntary) and while the basic is hard all that crap ends immediatly after basic and people act like normal human beings unlike the army and marines and even the navy and airforce to a lesser extent.

LiberalNation
01-26-2008, 10:59 PM
Shrugs it wouldn't be for everyone but some people thrive in such an enviroment. Makes them feel patriotic, ect. I could make more as a nurse in the civilian world then I will if I stay four years in army ROTC and get a commision in the army upon graduation (my plan at the moment). Also looks good on a future resume.

Mr. P
01-27-2008, 12:19 AM
I would never encourage anyone to join. There is a dark side of the military, that is if you hate it and want out your discharge status can haunt you much more than if you just never joined in the first place. ALMOST anything you can do in the military you can do as a civilian, I would encourage anyone to go to college and get an education, student loans are not that big of a deal compared to the degraded lifestyle that CAN be imposed on you if you are GI. I dont know of any flight training that costs 350K even for a jet rating, either you were being extorted or that includes the cost of a really nice plane, you can get an acrobatic aircraft that can outperform a fighter in terms of manuverablity, if you ever go to an air show the private acrobatic pilots are way more impressive than a fighter "going fast", the thunder birds and blue angles are impressive but the chances of becomming a pilot for that group is like winning a million dollars at rippie world in a mall. The military glamorizes a hand full of jobs that very few people have on there commercials and ALMOST completely leave out the numerious negitive daily aspects of military life. If you have a valuable skill and a non-basket weaving degree you will make tons more in the civilian world than you ever could in the military, I make about as much as a major and im 26 because I have an engineering degree. The military is by in large a bad deal after all the smoke clears unless you have a degree that is not so usefull in the civilian sector. Service academys are equally bad, I always wanted to go to the air force academy myself and ended up going to the colorado school of mines and toured the academy and was so happy I never made it (i would have probably quite the first week anyhow and wasted a year of my life trying to get into a real school the following academic year) in the BS meter was so high it was not even funny. I have a friend in the coast guard and he says its pretty good, no forced deployments (only voluntary) and while the basic is hard all that crap ends immediatly after basic and people act like normal human beings unlike the army and marines and even the navy and airforce to a lesser extent.

Yer 26 and don't have a F'king clue what yer talking about.

Psychoblues
01-27-2008, 12:27 AM
I encouraged my daughter to join the Air Force in 1983. She did and came back home 6 years later very much changed and very much a stranger to the American principles that I embrace. I still love her anyway. My sons never indicated any interest in the military even though I encouraged them also to seek for at least a time in the services of their country. I just can't figure the kids out. But, I don't think I am alone in that feeling.

rppearso
01-27-2008, 12:34 AM
Military experence unless its in direct correlation to the civilian job you are applying for does not do as much for you as you might think, the whole "exact same experence and education" argument rarely occures between 2 people being interviewed as far as being the tie breaker, even if someone has the same number of years of experence, graduation from a better college will account for more than military experence. If you are going medical corp you will be in a different situation, nurses and doctors fall into a special catagorazation that require a generals approval to be shuffled around like the rank and file GI, alot of special rules that protect your profession apply to medical corp officers that any other GI does not get so going ROTC as a nurse is probably not to bad of a deal because the military can not afford to burn a nurse or especially a doctor. I have no interest in the medical field so I will likely end up as a GS-13/14 after I have made my money in oil and gas as a process chemical engineer, of course once your making 150K a year it is tough to take a pay cut to a 1 star general pay grade, thats probably why people work until they die in oil and gas and just take 2 month vacations becasue its tough to retire when you make that much bank. If you want to know what to do for school, major in chemical engineering and work in oil and gas, you can pay off your house a few cars in about 4 -5 years and then start buying high performance air craft or a nice boat or whatever you dont need to use the governments stuff just buy your own then you control the assets useage instead of a commander who has a degree in basket weaving. Life is good in the oil patch, I guess when the oil runs out up here I could switch to doing optical physics as a GS-13/14.

rppearso
01-27-2008, 12:35 AM
Yer 26 and don't have a F'king clue what yer talking about.

Come on you can do better than a one liner man. Tell me exactly what I dont have a clue about and we can take it from there.

LiberalNation
01-27-2008, 12:38 AM
Yeah I doubt I could do that. Doesn't sound like something I would be good at. 4 year nursing degree is pretty good, most nurses I know only do 2 and then work. You make okay money either way and have great job security. (no where near what you'll be making in your field tho ;) ) Nurses are in high demand everywhere. I might end up going to medical school later on and becoming a doctor tho.

Psychoblues
01-27-2008, 12:38 AM
Whew!!!!!!!!! I'm glad that screed ended!!!!!!!!




Military experence unless its in direct correlation to the civilian job you are applying for does not do as much for you as you might think, the whole "exact same experence and education" argument rarely occures between 2 people being interviewed as far as being the tie breaker, even if someone has the same number of years of experence, graduation from a better college will account for more than military experence. If you are going medical corp you will be in a different situation, nurses and doctors fall into a special catagorazation that require a generals approval to be shuffled around like the rank and file GI, alot of special rules that protect your profession apply to medical corp officers that any other GI does not get so going ROTC as a nurse is probably not to bad of a deal because the military can not afford to burn a nurse or especially a doctor. I have no interest in the medical field so I will likely end up as a GS-13/14 after I have made my money in oil and gas as a process chemical engineer, of course once your making 150K a year it is tough to take a pay cut to a 1 star general pay grade, thats probably why people work until they die in oil and gas and just take 2 month vacations becasue its tough to retire when you make that much bank. If you want to know what to do for school, major in chemical engineering and work in oil and gas, you can pay off your house a few cars in about 4 -5 years and then start buying high performance air craft or a nice boat or whatever you dont need to use the governments stuff just buy your own then you control the assets useage instead of a commander who has a degree in basket weaving. Life is good in the oil patch, I guess when the oil runs out up here I could switch to doing optical physics as a GS-13/14.

GS 13/14? I doubt it. You write more like a GS 2/3. Good Luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!

rppearso
01-27-2008, 12:44 AM
Yeah I doubt I could do that. Doesn't sound like something I would be good at. 4 year nursing degree is pretty good, most nurses I know only do 2 and then work. You make okay money either way and have great job security. (no where near what you'll be making in your field tho ;) ) Nurses are in high demand everywhere. I might end up going to medical school later on and becoming a doctor tho.

Nursing is a great carrer field, and definatly the best carrer field in the military because no one messes with nurses or doctors, also when you get out you can live anywhere and have a good job, I have to live in certian locations and usually thoes locations are enviornmentally inhospitable places, luckily I was born and raised in alaska and this is where alot of oil is so it is not a burden, but if I went anywhere else it would be ausubijan (I hope this is not a spelling bee forum, making spelling and gramer cracks got old about 2 years ago), north west territories of canada etc.

rppearso
01-27-2008, 12:50 AM
Whew!!!!!!!!! I'm glad that screed ended!!!!!!!!





GS 13/14? I doubt it. You write more like a GS 2/3. Good Luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was going to reply to your last post but your turned it into spelling bee, come on, they dont make you a GS-13/14 because you won the 3rd grade spelling bee, if I got a job in optical physics or missile defense it would be because of my science/engineering/technical expertise, besides this is a forum dude its not like im spell checking like its a transmited document.

I was really disappointed to see the one liners and spelling bees right out of the gate.

LiberalNation
01-27-2008, 12:51 AM
I was really disappointed to see the one liners and spelling bees right out of the gate.
You'll keep seeing the one liners but most people don't hype on spelling. Some good debates, some pissy fighting, you get it all.

rppearso
01-27-2008, 12:54 AM
Thats too bad, one liners get old especially pissy one liners, like "you fing dont know what your talking about", ok why not elaborate

Mr. P
01-27-2008, 01:10 AM
Whew!!!!!!!!! I'm glad that screed ended!!!!!!!!





GS 13/14? I doubt it. You write more like a GS 2/3. Good Luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Probably is. One that is "disgruntled" too.

Mr. P
01-27-2008, 01:16 AM
Thats too bad, one liners get old especially pissy one liners, like "you fing dont know what your talking about", ok why not elaborate

No need, most here are intelligent enough to know why. See, you have no clue.

Psychoblues
01-27-2008, 01:16 AM
Maybe the Union can protect him, I dunno.




Probably is. One that is "disgruntled" too.

Aren't most Americans somewhat "disgruntled"?

Mr. P
01-27-2008, 01:21 AM
Maybe the Union can protect him, I dunno.





Aren't most Americans somewhat "disgruntled"?

At the moment I'd say HELL YES!

rppearso
01-27-2008, 01:39 AM
No need, most here are intelligent enough to know why. See, you have no clue.

Wow that sucked, that was like a edge of your seat movie that had a crappy ending.

Psychoblues
01-27-2008, 01:44 AM
You do know how to relate in one liners!!!!!!!!!!! You suck anyway but I give you the :clap: for at least demonstrating you can express an idea in 15 or fewer words!!!!!!!!!!!



Wow that sucked, that was like a edge of your seat movie that had a crappy ending.

Whups!!!!! That was 17. My bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

rppearso
01-27-2008, 02:11 AM
You do know how to relate in one liners!!!!!!!!!!! You suck anyway but I give you the :clap: for at least demonstrating you can express an idea in 15 or fewer words!!!!!!!!!!!




Whups!!!!! That was 17. My bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Everything I was hoping this forum wouldent be, you are. One liners (and I should add one liners with no intellectually stimulating content), senseless name calling because you cant debate my post, and the spelling bee. If you have something usefull to say that would be awesome otherwise why do post, you must really like seeing your avatar as you scan through the thread. I imagin you think your kids suck as well because they are probably not much different from me.

Sitarro
01-27-2008, 03:07 AM
Then again, if they get their limbs or face melted off fighting for God-knows-what their lives will be ruined so the point would be moot. :dunno:

As opposed to getting drunk at a frat house and either dying of alcohol poisoning or ending up as an oil slick on a highway in America?

Psychoblues
01-27-2008, 03:56 AM
Holy Jesus!!!!!!! Another diatribe from the depths of ignorance and uneducated!!!!!!!!




Everything I was hoping this forum wouldent be, you are. One liners (and I should add one liners with no intellectually stimulating content), senseless name calling because you cant debate my post, and the spelling bee. If you have something usefull to say that would be awesome otherwise why do post, you must really like seeing your avatar as you scan through the thread. I imagin you think your kids suck as well because they are probably not much different from me.

My kids are GREAT with me, suckass, and just what does my avatar look like to you? I don't use an avatar. I questioned your honesty, as others have also done, and for very good reason. We think you are a liar. GS 14/15? Give me a freakin' break?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? What spelling bee are you talking about? But you certainly need some spelling lessons from wherever you can find them. Dig it?

AFbombloader
01-27-2008, 04:29 AM
I would never encourage anyone to join. There is a dark side of the military, that is if you hate it and want out your discharge status can haunt you much more than if you just never joined in the first place. ALMOST anything you can do in the military you can do as a civilian, I would encourage anyone to go to college and get an education, student loans are not that big of a deal compared to the degraded lifestyle that CAN be imposed on you if you are GI. I dont know of any flight training that costs 350K even for a jet rating, either you were being extorted or that includes the cost of a really nice plane, you can get an acrobatic aircraft that can outperform a fighter in terms of manuverablity, if you ever go to an air show the private acrobatic pilots are way more impressive than a fighter "going fast", the thunder birds and blue angles are impressive but the chances of becomming a pilot for that group is like winning a million dollars at rippie world in a mall. The military glamorizes a hand full of jobs that very few people have on there commercials and ALMOST completely leave out the numerious negitive daily aspects of military life. If you have a valuable skill and a non-basket weaving degree you will make tons more in the civilian world than you ever could in the military, I make about as much as a major and im 26 because I have an engineering degree. The military is by in large a bad deal after all the smoke clears unless you have a degree that is not so usefull in the civilian sector. Service academys are equally bad, I always wanted to go to the air force academy myself and ended up going to the colorado school of mines and toured the academy and was so happy I never made it (i would have probably quite the first week anyhow and wasted a year of my life trying to get into a real school the following academic year) in the BS meter was so high it was not even funny. I have a friend in the coast guard and he says its pretty good, no forced deployments (only voluntary) and while the basic is hard all that crap ends immediatly after basic and people act like normal human beings unlike the army and marines and even the navy and airforce to a lesser extent.

I can tell from your post that you have never served and have absolutely no clue what the military is or is about. Please talk about what you know. Your experience is yours alone, it doesn't relate to military life as a whole. There are many people in here that have served and have had great experiences. I have 19+ years in the Air Force myself and have no complaints. I hope you will learn to open yourself to the opinions of others because there are great things in all walks of life, the military included.

AF:salute:

Psychoblues
01-27-2008, 04:47 AM
Great message, AFbombloader!!!!!!!



I can tell from your post that you have never served and have absolutely no clue what the military is or is about. Please talk about what you know. Your experience is yours alone, it doesn't relate to military life as a whole. There are many people in here that have served and have had great experiences. I have 19+ years in the Air Force myself and have no complaints. I hope you will learn to open yourself to the opinions of others because there are great things in all walks of life, the military included.

AF:salute:

Thank you and :salute:

pegwinn
01-27-2008, 12:08 PM
I can tell from your post that you have never served and have absolutely no clue what the military is or is about. Please talk about what you know. Your experience is yours alone, it doesn't relate to military life as a whole. There are many people in here that have served and have had great experiences. I have 19+ years in the Air Force myself and have no complaints. I hope you will learn to open yourself to the opinions of others because there are great things in all walks of life, the military included.

AF:salute:

Oh come on AF. At least he conceded that you and MFM (or is it MM) get to act like human beings. Me, the Gunny, 82Marine89, CSM et al, don't get that. :laugh2:

Abbey
01-27-2008, 12:31 PM
Come on you can do better than a one liner man. Tell me exactly what I dont have a clue about and we can take it from there.

A well-crafted one liner is much harder to compose and can be more interesting to read, than a rambling paragraph. It requires a higher skill level

Anyway, I can appreciate that you are not a fan of the miltary, but given that you have never actually served, I will continue give much more credence to the opinions of our vets. :salute:

As for spelling, with on-line dictionaries literally at your fingertips, repeated poor spelling is just laziness. Instead of feeling defensive about it, and letting it ruin your on-line experience, why not just look up those words you don't know how to spell?

Said1
01-27-2008, 05:22 PM
Everything I was hoping this forum wouldent be, you are. One liners (and I should add one liners with no intellectually stimulating content), senseless name calling because you cant debate my post, and the spelling bee. If you have something usefull to say that would be awesome otherwise why do post, you must really like seeing your avatar as you scan through the thread. I imagin you think your kids suck as well because they are probably not much different from me.

Shut up, poo head.

rppearso
01-27-2008, 06:43 PM
I have had 2 years in the army national gaurd so I definatly speak from experence and have credibility, I am disappointed to see that most people on here can not form a rational debate, and I still ask to what in any of my posts warrent the rude and uninteresting posts. I agree a carefully crafted one liner can be useful and entertaining, but "shut up poop head" is definatly not one of them nor are any of the other posts on this tread.

Said1
01-27-2008, 07:13 PM
I have had 2 years in the army national gaurd so I definatly speak from experence and have credibility, I am disappointed to see that most people on here can not form a rational debate, and I still ask to what in any of my posts warrent the rude and uninteresting posts. I agree a carefully crafted one liner can be useful and entertaining, but "shut up poop head" is definatly not one of them nor are any of the other posts on this tread.


Is this the only board discussing this topic on the entire world wide web?


Would 'fuck off' work better?


A carefully constructed attitude works too. Something to think about.

Work on the personality side of things, too. Yours is like watching paint dry, only more boring and paint is less arrogant.

But seriously, now. Fuck off.

Hope that was droll and knuckledraggingish enough for you. Now get out THERE and have a holierthanthou, pompous ass day! :)

pegwinn
01-27-2008, 07:45 PM
Grasshopper, we begin again.....


I have had 2 years in the army national gaurd so I definatly speak from experence and have credibility, Two years in the guard equals an average of about eight and a half months active duty time. So, you get that much opening respect.

I am disappointed to see that most people on here can not form a rational debate, and I still ask to what in any of my posts warrent the rude and uninteresting posts. Judging by your post count, you haven't had time to judge "most people" on here. It is like your Guard experience is not enough to support the level of the statements you made. The higher the accusation, the higher the standard of proof. Had you simply said that you were unable to deal with military life, you would have found a calmer reception.

I agree a carefully crafted one liner can be useful and entertaining, but "shut up poop head" is definatly not one of them nor are any of the other posts on this tread. I know that doesn't apply to me since I am not known for one-liners.

Gaffer
01-27-2008, 07:52 PM
I have had 2 years in the army national gaurd so I definatly speak from experence and have credibility, I am disappointed to see that most people on here can not form a rational debate, and I still ask to what in any of my posts warrent the rude and uninteresting posts. I agree a carefully crafted one liner can be useful and entertaining, but "shut up poop head" is definatly not one of them nor are any of the other posts on this tread.

Two years in the ANG? Why did you get out early? Did you get the boot? You sound like wash out material to me. Like someone who couldn't adjust to being away from mommy.

Two years does not fulfill your enlistment commitment. It also doesn't give you any credibility concerning the military when there are a dozen posters on here that have REAL military experience.

If you received rude and insulting posts in response to your posts it is because you are being rude and insulting yourself and you will receive replies in kind.

rppearso
01-27-2008, 08:41 PM
I dont know what rude or insulting posts I have made other than to point out my disagreement with military training treatment. I got myself out early, since I was an 09S (officer candiate) I had the option of opting out, it took a long time to finally get my discharge but I did, I did 2 years in the gaurd including basic and went to the first OCS drill and submitted my letter of intent and talked to the major, by this time it was very clear I was not adapting to the military and forcing me to stay in would have axasperated the situation, I was up to about 33% body fat between basic and OCS and am still working to get it off so I would say I was very unable to adapt to military life, where I fault the military is there inability to ELS me in basic, they had absolutly no quality control in basic training, I should have never graduated but I did. In fact I even asked for an ELS and would have been more than happy to get on a plane the next day or even that night but that dident happen. The drill gave me the whole speach about how I signed up and im going to serve my country, I basicly shrugged my shoulders and said I dont care but if your not going to let me out I guess I will have to quit when I get home. At the end of basic they asked us again who wanted to quit but I was already going home in a week so I dident care to get yelled at again for no reason and there was no IG present to sign ELS forms and put us on a plane so I saved myself the trouble and quit when I got back to the guard.

The comment I made regarding watching the EPA guy stomp off is what caught my attention, what value does it add to harrass a GS-14 or GS anything for that matter?

rppearso
01-27-2008, 08:43 PM
getting back to the OP these are the reasons I would not recommend the military to anyone.

Abbey
01-27-2008, 09:49 PM
getting back to the OP these are the reasons I would not recommend the military to anyone.

So, what would happen if everyone took your advice and refused to join the military? Who do you propose to defend our country when we are inevitably invaded?

Mr. P
01-27-2008, 10:11 PM
rppearso
04-05-2006, 09:59 PM
I am also an 09S that opted out from the national guard and I was not given a hard time. I have not went back to gaurd since I submitted my letter of disenrollment in january and have not heard anything back. I am also way out of AR600-9 regs as well so I do not qualify to go to any AIT.

How do I go about getting my defective enlistment agreement or my 600-9 discharge, do I just wait long enough and they will mail it to me? Will I have to go back in 6 months to weight in as per AR600-9 and if I do have to go in can I be in civilian clothes to do my weight in?
http://forum.freeadvice.com/archive/index.php/t-252684.html

Wait! You said you were hazed an stuff. I think you're a fat ass lying loser myself. A mommas boy that just can't handle a commitment so you bailed. You sound like one that may hold a sub prime loan too, then scream to get out of it. Right?

I don't care for losers that spout BS about the military because they FAILED. Look in the mirror dumb ass!

AFbombloader
01-27-2008, 10:43 PM
You have stated in other posts that you never finished your training. How can you have done two years in the AG without finishing your training? I have never heard of anything like that. And I have also never heard of having a recruit go straight to OCS. Usually they, the officer candidates, go throught a totally different training than the enlisted. And before you say I do not know what I am talking about. I have been an Air Force recruiter and had a good relationship with the Army in our office. They say they have no Idea what you are talking about either.

And two years in the guard counts for almost nothing in time of service. maybe four months in real time.


AF:salute:

rppearso
01-28-2008, 02:17 AM
You have stated in other posts that you never finished your training. How can you have done two years in the AG without finishing your training? I have never heard of anything like that. And I have also never heard of having a recruit go straight to OCS. Usually they, the officer candidates, go throught a totally different training than the enlisted. And before you say I do not know what I am talking about. I have been an Air Force recruiter and had a good relationship with the Army in our office. They say they have no Idea what you are talking about either.

And two years in the guard counts for almost nothing in time of service. maybe four months in real time.


AF:salute:

Look up the 09S enlistment option, I had to first go to basic since I was right off the street then to OCS and then OBC, I cant help it if he does not know what a 09S enlistment option is, the air force has the same thing only you dont even go through basic in the AF you go off the street to OTS. I was not hasseled by the major of OCS upon getting out (thank God), all the hasseling was done in basic training and then in RSP (recruit sustainment program) by the RSP lt col. Anyways you can have your own opinions about my character but I have alot of good reasons why I would not recommend joining. I would hope that if no one joined the upper eschelon would so some deep cleaning in the military but as long as people join there is no reason for them to. Is all the swearing and name calling really nessicary or are some of you really so unintellegent you cant express yourself any other way.

rppearso
01-28-2008, 02:20 AM
http://forum.freeadvice.com/archive/index.php/t-252684.html

Wait! You said you were hazed an stuff. I think you're a fat ass lying loser myself. A mommas boy that just can't handle a commitment so you bailed. You sound like one that may hold a sub prime loan too, then scream to get out of it. Right?

I don't care for losers that spout BS about the military because they FAILED. Look in the mirror dumb ass!

BTW I did finally get my discharge papers mailed to me about 3 weeks ago, so I guess that would make the post you refered to closed out, sorry if you were reaching for straw to try to discredit me becasue you found a post I made a long time ago on another site .... big deal.

AFbombloader
01-28-2008, 06:25 AM
Look up the 09S enlistment option.

Sorry, doesn't work that way. If you want to make your point, you do the legwork and show it to me. We don't "fetch" here. I don't have time to look up Army regs that I really can't give a care about. I have F-16's to keep flying so we can go north and kill, if necessary.


AF:salute:

glockmail
01-28-2008, 08:40 AM
getting back to the OP these are the reasons I would not recommend the military to anyone. After reading some of your posts that is a good thing, as the military is better off without anyone you'd be hanging out with.

rppearso
01-28-2008, 11:36 AM
Well im an engineer and I have gas to put in your F-16's or they will not go anywhere. Im not going to provide a reference becasue I also do not have time, I am on here for entertainment value.

gabosaurus
01-28-2008, 11:44 AM
Unfortunately (for you), we also don't have the time. If you do not back up your claims, we don't want to hear them.

glockmail
01-28-2008, 12:04 PM
Well im an engineer and I have gas to put in your F-16's or they will not go anywhere. Im not going to provide a reference becasue I also do not have time, I am on here for entertainment value.

If you'e an engineer you'd realize that F-16's run on K-1, not gas, and that's available right here in the US of A; all we need. :lol:

rppearso
01-28-2008, 12:17 PM
It would behouve your AF recruiter friend who has supposedly been recruiting for years to learn about the OTS enlistment option (09S for the army, dont know what it is for the air force) im not going to do his job for him, and you really dident back up anything, you simply said you talked to a friend who cant do his job. As far as jet fuel, its refined from the same barrel of oil you get gas from and im aware we have it in the USA, I work in the USA in alaska but we are strongly dependant upon forigin oil.

Nukeman
01-28-2008, 12:45 PM
It would behouve your AF recruiter friend who has supposedly been recruiting for years to learn about the OTS enlistment option (09S for the army, dont know what it is for the air force) im not going to do his job for him, and you really dident back up anything, you simply said you talked to a friend who cant do his job. As far as jet fuel, its refined from the same barrel of oil you get gas from and im aware we have it in the USA, I work in the USA in alaska but we are strongly dependant upon forigin oil.
Ummm..... AF is a very good recruiter and honost one at that. He shared an office next door to the army recruiter so I think they know what they are talking about.

You have come on here and made contradicting comments. What everyone wants from you is "PROOF" you are what you say you are. A number of individuals on here are either active or retired military, so I think that means they know their shit. Back up what you say or shut the hell up....

Abbey
01-28-2008, 12:50 PM
Originally Posted by rppearso
getting back to the OP these are the reasons I would not recommend the military to anyone.


So, what would happen if everyone took your advice and refused to join the military? Who do you propose to defend our country when we are inevitably invaded?

Hey rpp:
Any chance we can get an answer to my question?

Monkeybone
01-28-2008, 12:55 PM
So, what would happen if everyone took your advice and refused to join the military? Who do you propose to defend our country when we are inevitably invaded?

ohhh ohhh! i know! we would just take up arms to defend ourselves...oh...wait...they wanna take our guns since we don't need them like back in the old days...so..n/m

AFbombloader
01-28-2008, 04:18 PM
Well im an engineer and I have gas to put in your F-16's or they will not go anywhere. Im not going to provide a reference becasue I also do not have time, I am on here for entertainment value.

Until you back up what you say with some sort of proof, I will have difficulty listening or believing what you say. If you are on here for entertainment value, fine. But validate your statements, I figure an "engineer" could do that, since a lowly enlisted Air Force member can.

AF:salute:

AFbombloader
01-28-2008, 04:26 PM
It would behouve your AF recruiter friend who has supposedly been recruiting for years to learn about the OTS enlistment option (09S for the army, dont know what it is for the air force) im not going to do his job for him, and you really dident back up anything, you simply said you talked to a friend who cant do his job. As far as jet fuel, its refined from the same barrel of oil you get gas from and im aware we have it in the USA, I work in the USA in alaska but we are strongly dependant upon forigin oil.

Ok, I have been nothing but respectful to you even tho I feel you have been far from honest or truthful here. I was an Air Force recruiter. I am very familiar with the AIR FORCE options that are available for people who want to become officers. You do not know those options, as I do not know the Army options (and I don't care). If you want me to see your point, you will do the job (of copying and pasting a link) or you will not be heard. Not a very difficult task.
And I don't believe we get a drop of gas from you or your company. But if we do, it surely isn't from anything you are doing or have done since we have used the same type of fuel (JP-8) for the 19 years I have been in the AF. Alot longer than you have been working "in an oil field" or should I say an office???

AF:salute:

rppearso
01-28-2008, 05:40 PM
Here is the OTS option for the AF, depending on your degree or profession you can get a direct commission as well which means you automaticly become a capt or major and never see a drill sgt (or minimally see one when they are forced to be on much better behavior).

http://www.military.com/Recruiting/Content/0,13898,rec_step03_officer_usaf,,00.html

09S enlistment option

http://www.ngms.state.ms.us/edu/OCS%20ROTC.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Army_MOS#Officer_Candidates

If no one joined the military it would force them to deep clean there act, during that clean up period we would be unable to wage forign wars but would have enough people and military assets to defend ourselves but we would have to abandon our policies on colateral damage because we would rely more heavily on our high ticket national assets (ie weapons that are 1/2 step down from WMD's or even the WMD's them selves) that would minimize the burden on our own citizens and tell the world we are not messing around and we refuse to give your targets, all you will see is your own death. Dont get me wrong im all about defending OUR nation and OUR constitution but there are too many things jacked up "in our own ranks" so to speak that the whole military needs deep cleaning and a mentality upgrade to reflect this generations mind set. But I guess if you can keep on recruiting people to perpetuate a pointless war and maintain antiquated traditions more power to you I just would not personally recommend it to anyone.

LiberalNation
01-28-2008, 05:44 PM
too many things jacked up "in our own ranks" so to speak that the whole military needs deep cleaning and a mentality upgrade to reflect this generations mind set.
The miltary likes "change" about as much as the catholic church in many aspects. They slow it down till new generation people get in charge.

rppearso
01-28-2008, 06:07 PM
Ok, I have been nothing but respectful to you even tho I feel you have been far from honest or truthful here. I was an Air Force recruiter. I am very familiar with the AIR FORCE options that are available for people who want to become officers. You do not know those options, as I do not know the Army options (and I don't care). If you want me to see your point, you will do the job (of copying and pasting a link) or you will not be heard. Not a very difficult task.
And I don't believe we get a drop of gas from you or your company. But if we do, it surely isn't from anything you are doing or have done since we have used the same type of fuel (JP-8) for the 19 years I have been in the AF. Alot longer than you have been working "in an oil field" or should I say an office???

AF:salute:

When prudhoe bay went down for a few days the federal government was screaming bloody murder, they have been pumping crude out of prudhoe for over 30 years and I am working on renewing the field so they can continue to produce and some of that fuel probably fuels your jets, if not your jets are fueled from Prudhoe or south texas its forign (iraq, saudi etc). Im an engineer so yea I work in a office ... so.

Mr. P
01-28-2008, 06:13 PM
The miltary likes "change" about as much as the catholic church in many aspects. They slow it down till new generation people get in charge.

Yer another one of our youngsters without a clue. Is it ok if we use "time out" in the military training process? I mean that would fit into this mental midgets "upgrade to reflect this generations mind set" philosophy.

rppearso
01-28-2008, 08:16 PM
Yer another one of our youngsters without a clue. Is it ok if we use "time out" in the military training process? I mean that would fit into this mental midgets "upgrade to reflect this generations mind set" philosophy.

We can start with making sure stuff like this never ever happens again, that would be a good start.

http://onlyvolunteers.blogspot.com/2006/05/fort-sills-ptrp-aftermath.html

or this,

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,132397,00.html

There would also have to be very strict rules on hazing, right now hazing regualtions are much to loose, fire guard is also a major disruption of sleep cycles in human beings, pulling watch for 3 to 5 days is one thing but messing with your sleep cycle for 9 weeks is very unhealthy.

pegwinn
01-28-2008, 08:36 PM
If no one joined the military it would force them to deep clean there act, during that clean up period we would be unable to wage forign wars but would have enough people and military assets to defend ourselves but we would have to abandon our policies on colateral damage because we would rely more heavily on our high ticket national assets (ie weapons that are 1/2 step down from WMD's or even the WMD's them selves) that would minimize the burden on our own citizens and tell the world we are not messing around and we refuse to give your targets, all you will see is your own death. Dont get me wrong im all about defending OUR nation and OUR constitution but there are too many things jacked up "in our own ranks" so to speak that the whole military needs deep cleaning and a mentality upgrade to reflect this generations mind set. But I guess if you can keep on recruiting people to perpetuate a pointless war and maintain antiquated traditions more power to you I just would not personally recommend it to anyone.

Grasshopper. You are no longer the student. Your Kung Fu, is gone.


The miltary likes "change" about as much as the catholic church in many aspects. They slow it down till new generation people get in charge.

LOL. Spoken like someone who believes that Sgt Fury was the real deal.



There would also have to be very strict rules on hazing, right now hazing regualtions are much to loose, fire guard is also a major disruption of sleep cycles in human beings, pulling watch for 3 to 5 days is one thing but messing with your sleep cycle for 9 weeks is very unhealthy.

Weedhoppa. You are officially so full of shit your eyes are turning brown.

Fire watch is a major disruption of sleep? Well, no screaming eagle shit. Walking patrols in a MOUT environment is also a major disruption of my shit, shower, shave, sleep, and sudz time. Did it ever occur to your wannabe self that there are reasons the training is just a tad tougher than the daisy hill puppy farm obedience school? Sheesh.

Abbey
01-28-2008, 08:41 PM
We can start with making sure stuff like this never ever happens again, that would be a good start.

http://onlyvolunteers.blogspot.com/2006/05/fort-sills-ptrp-aftermath.html

or this,

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,132397,00.html

There would also have to be very strict rules on hazing, right now hazing regualtions are much to loose, fire guard is also a major disruption of sleep cycles in human beings, pulling watch for 3 to 5 days is one thing but messing with your sleep cycle for 9 weeks is very unhealthy.

RPP, you are starting to sound like the girl who didn't make the cheerleading squad and hates pretty girls forever. Did something bad happen to you in the military? Was it that you didn't get into the Air Force Academy?

5stringJeff
01-28-2008, 08:44 PM
There would also have to be very strict rules on hazing, right now hazing regualtions are much to loose, fire guard is also a major disruption of sleep cycles in human beings, pulling watch for 3 to 5 days is one thing but messing with your sleep cycle for 9 weeks is very unhealthy.

Boo-hoo, I had to pull fire guard and I didn't get any milk and cookies from the mess hall!!

Gimme a break. I pulled my fair share of guard, and got hazed more than most, so I don't buy it for one second.

rppearso
01-28-2008, 09:03 PM
I would be interested in what people think about the 2 articles I posted.

LiberalNation
01-28-2008, 09:07 PM
LOL. Spoken like someone who believes that Sgt Fury was the real deal.

I don't know if he's for real or not. No way to prove either way, people can pose as whatever they want on the internet.

My opinion was my opinion. Even watching some history channel shows you can see miltaries are traditionally resistent to change, the old gaurd likes to keep what it knows and think works regardless of changing times.

Mr. P
01-28-2008, 09:38 PM
We can start with making sure stuff like this never ever happens again, that would be a good start.

http://onlyvolunteers.blogspot.com/2006/05/fort-sills-ptrp-aftermath.html

or this,

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,132397,00.html

There would also have to be very strict rules on hazing, right now hazing regualtions are much to loose, fire guard is also a major disruption of sleep cycles in human beings, pulling watch for 3 to 5 days is one thing but messing with your sleep cycle for 9 weeks is very unhealthy.

You're a PUSS kid! Fireguard disrupts my sleep...whaaaaaaaa!
What do you think the bad guys will do to your sleep cycle in combat? IDIOT!

The DI screamed at me! Whaaaaaaa!
When shit is blowing up and bullets are flying past your fat head, you'll thank God that DI pushed your mental toughness and wish he was there yelling at you instead of the RPGs whizzing by!

Do you know that filters are used to cull those that can't cut it? Do you know even more filters are used IF you're on the officer track? Officers may have to lead men into HELL, they can't be f'kin whimps nor mentally weak, nor be surrounded by troops that are! You think an officer should get a pass on mental toughness, not be hazed? You are an IDIOT!

Like I said before in other posts, you don't have a clue.

I Thank God you didn't make it, that you're NOT a commissioned officer in the United States Army, cuz you're UNFIT to be a leader, or even serve!

pegwinn
01-28-2008, 09:57 PM
I don't know if he's for real or not. No way to prove either way, people can pose as whatever they want on the internet.

My opinion was my opinion. Even watching some history channel shows you can see miltaries are traditionally resistent to change, the old gaurd likes to keep what it knows and think works regardless of changing times.

Actually, Sgt Fury was a comic book. Nothing to do with the NG washout.

You are on the outside looking in. In 22 years I saw huge changes. The fundamental intangibles, Honor, Courage, Commitment. Leadership. doesn't change much.

Tactics, etc. Change daily.

The Marines biggest change in my career was that we decided that after boot camp a Marine could be treated like an adult. I was treated like a recruit until I made Corporal.

Now, they are held with a looser leash as it were. Instead of weakness we find that (Holy shit Batman) the young uns can think if'n ya jist let em. Who do you think thunk up using silly string to find trip wires?

Wasn't me. If I suspected a trap, I would invite the reporter to go first so he could get the exclusive....

Psychoblues
01-29-2008, 01:19 AM
Great Balls Of Fire!!!!!!!!!!! 2, TWO, years in the ANG!!!!!!!!!!! I bet you have some really great stories to tell us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



I have had 2 years in the army national gaurd so I definatly speak from experence and have credibility, I am disappointed to see that most people on here can not form a rational debate, and I still ask to what in any of my posts warrent the rude and uninteresting posts. I agree a carefully crafted one liner can be useful and entertaining, but "shut up poop head" is definatly not one of them nor are any of the other posts on this tread.

3 tours in Iraq? Army helicopter pilot? Held prisoner in Basic Training?

rppearso
01-29-2008, 09:44 AM
sorry I cant do this, its to boring, if you cant address the 2 whole links I posted and instead post meaningless uninteresting replys then its not worth posting.

Kathianne
01-29-2008, 09:47 AM
sorry I cant do this, its to boring, if you cant address the 2 whole links I posted and instead post meaningless uninteresting replys then its not worth posting.

Well not that it matters if you are leaving, but to tell the truth, your posts have been far from thought-provoking. Indeed, uninteresting certainly comes to mind. Good luck with finding a place more to your high standards. :cheers2:

glockmail
01-29-2008, 10:01 AM
sorry I cant do this, its to boring, if you cant address the 2 whole links I posted and instead post meaningless uninteresting replys then its not worth posting.
Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out! :salute:

Gaffer
01-29-2008, 11:07 AM
We can start with making sure stuff like this never ever happens again, that would be a good start.

http://onlyvolunteers.blogspot.com/2006/05/fort-sills-ptrp-aftermath.html

or this,

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,132397,00.html

There would also have to be very strict rules on hazing, right now hazing regualtions are much to loose, fire guard is also a major disruption of sleep cycles in human beings, pulling watch for 3 to 5 days is one thing but messing with your sleep cycle for 9 weeks is very unhealthy.

It's obvious you have no clue as to what military training is all about. The yelling and cussing by the drill instructors is to intimidate you. Make you know who's in charge. And most importantly not to question orders. Just respond to them. It's to teach self discipline. Marching teaches you to work as a unit and to not anticipate commands. All the suttle little "hazing" methods used are to make you better able to think for yourself and follow orders and accomplish your goals.

What purpose would fire watch serve? It provides a bit of extra security in the building every night. It's training because there are times you don't get to have a full nights sleep without interruptions. As a member of the military you might have to go for weeks on little or no sleep. Try going for two weeks on four hours sleep a night broken into two hour segments then tell me how terrible fire guard is.

Your posts tell me your and over educated wimp who will run and hide at the first sign of a threat. You can't even handle being called a name and cussed at, let alone deal with actual events. You are not a military vet. You have not served in the military. You got your toe wet and decided you didn't want to do it and ran away. Then have the gall to complain and whine about how bad things are run when you know nothing about it.

Gaffer
01-29-2008, 11:31 AM
sorry I cant do this, its to boring, if you cant address the 2 whole links I posted and instead post meaningless uninteresting replys then its not worth posting.

What part of the articles are you looking to discuss? The cushy barracks the boots live in or the Air Force security police training to guard convoys. I read nothing terrible in either article.

You won't last on this board any more than you did in the military. Your going to pack up and run away. Seems to be the one thing you do well.

AFbombloader
01-29-2008, 03:47 PM
We can start with making sure stuff like this never ever happens again, that would be a good start.

http://onlyvolunteers.blogspot.com/2006/05/fort-sills-ptrp-aftermath.html

or this,

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,132397,00.html

There would also have to be very strict rules on hazing, right now hazing regualtions are much to loose, fire guard is also a major disruption of sleep cycles in human beings, pulling watch for 3 to 5 days is one thing but messing with your sleep cycle for 9 weeks is very unhealthy.


Neither one of these articles seems to folllow the point of this thread. The second one is a great way of showing how the branches are working together, thanks for showing us that. I already knew this because I have friends who have done that. The first one, didn't get the point.

AF:salute:

See, we do read posts, we just don't always reply when we feel they dont warrant a reply.

Mr. P
01-29-2008, 11:54 PM
You're a PUSS kid! Fireguard disrupts my sleep...whaaaaaaaa!
What do you think the bad guys will do to your sleep cycle in combat? IDIOT!

The DI screamed at me! Whaaaaaaa!
When shit is blowing up and bullets are flying past your fat head, you'll thank God that DI pushed your mental toughness and wish he was there yelling at you instead of the RPGs whizzing by!

Do you know that filters are used to cull those that can't cut it? Do you know even more filters are used IF you're on the officer track? Officers may have to lead men into HELL, they can't be f'kin whimps nor mentally weak, nor be surrounded by troops that are! You think an officer should get a pass on mental toughness, not be hazed? You are an IDIOT!

Like I said before in other posts, you don't have a clue.

I Thank God you didn't make it, that you're NOT a commissioned officer in the United States Army, cuz you're UNFIT to be a leader, or even serve!


sorry I cant do this, its to boring, if you cant address the 2 whole links I posted and instead post meaningless uninteresting replys then its not worth posting.

So is this like, they won't play my game, they won't do what I want? I quit!
Is that it?

Bye, bye!

AFbombloader
01-30-2008, 02:47 AM
So is this like, they won't play my game, they won't do what I want? I quit!
Is that it?

Bye, bye!

I have a feeling we will not be hearing from this one anytime soon. (sarcasm) And I thought things were going so well! (end sarcasm)

Have fun doing what you do, won't miss you.

AF:salute:

rppearso
01-30-2008, 11:16 AM
Ok I will bite, I am on here for entertainment and am very busy with various things as I imagin most on here are and I get tired of the one line insult posts especially with pointless cussing, I have a long way to get through my PE study before oct 09. The point of the articles was to show the harsh treatment of thoes in the PTRP system that should have been cut loose, I do view the PTRP as imprisonment without having commited a crime because you are not free to leave. The point of the air force post was the last paragraph, people sign up to be in the air force because they dont want to be in the army or serve army functions, so I feel it was betrayal, they cant get enough people to join the army and refuse to draft so they just betray thoes that signed for a different branch. I thought I would have gotten alot more discussion since I had posted the various links but oh well such is life.

glockmail
01-30-2008, 11:55 AM
.... I have a long way to get through my PE study before oct 09. ..... I predict that you will fail that exam.

gabosaurus
01-30-2008, 02:00 PM
Given the choice, I would love my daughter to become a business professional. It's a stable environment, has chances for advancement and adequate compensation, and no one would be shooting at her.

Mr. P
01-30-2008, 02:09 PM
Given the choice, I would love my daughter to become a business professional. It's a stable environment, has chances for advancement and adequate compensation, and no one would be shooting at her.

Depends on the business and where she lives.

AFbombloader
01-30-2008, 05:24 PM
The point of the air force post was the last paragraph, people sign up to be in the air force because they dont want to be in the army or serve army functions, so I feel it was betrayal, they cant get enough people to join the army and refuse to draft so they just betray thoes that signed for a different branch. I thought I would have gotten alot more discussion since I had posted the various links but oh well such is life.

Every person who joins the Air Force knows that there may be additional duties added to them. How is it a betrayel when we knowingly stood up, raised our right hand, and swore to protect the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic? I think you are way off base here. We know the Army is strapped for manpower, and we are here to help. For the most part, the people who are doing this volunteer for the duty. The Navy is doing the same thing. There are sailors pulling the same duty. I didn't feel from your statements that you are posting these because you care about us. But I could be mistaken.

AF:salute:

Gaffer
01-31-2008, 09:44 PM
Ok I will bite, I am on here for entertainment and am very busy with various things as I imagin most on here are and I get tired of the one line insult posts especially with pointless cussing, I have a long way to get through my PE study before oct 09. The point of the articles was to show the harsh treatment of thoes in the PTRP system that should have been cut loose, I do view the PTRP as imprisonment without having commited a crime because you are not free to leave. The point of the air force post was the last paragraph, people sign up to be in the air force because they dont want to be in the army or serve army functions, so I feel it was betrayal, they cant get enough people to join the army and refuse to draft so they just betray thoes that signed for a different branch. I thought I would have gotten alot more discussion since I had posted the various links but oh well such is life.

Want to discussed being forced to serve? OK, I was drafted. I didn't have a choice. I was sent to basic training at Ft. Ord Calif. We lived in an old WW2 barracks that housed 50 guys. We slept in an open bay on bunk beds. The bathroom had open showers and toilets with no stalls. There was absolutely NO privacy what-so-ever. There was also no interior walls. We pulled fire watch and KP, we ran everywhere we went in full combat gear. whether it was two blocks or five miles.

I did not get a choice of what I wanted to do. I was put in the infantry. I was sent to Tigerland at Ft Polk La for AIT. Then off to Vietnam where I where I got to see the Iron Triangle, the Cambodian border and the central highlands. Again, no choices.

To sign up for the military and then whine about how you were treated shows me your just a wuss. You could not have survived the military of my day.

82Marine89
01-31-2008, 09:57 PM
Want to discussed being forced to serve? OK, I was drafted. I didn't have a choice. I was sent to basic training at Ft. Ord Calif. We lived in an old WW2 barracks that housed 50 guys. We slept in an open bay on bunk beds. The bathroom had open showers and toilets with no stalls. There was absolutely NO privacy what-so-ever. There was also no interior walls. We pulled fire watch and KP, we ran everywhere we went in full combat gear. whether it was two blocks or five miles.

I did not get a choice of what I wanted to do. I was put in the infantry. I was sent to Tigerland at Ft Polk La for AIT. Then off to Vietnam where I where I got to see the Iron Triangle, the Cambodian border and the central highlands. Again, no choices.

To sign up for the military and then whine about how you were treated shows me your just a wuss. You could not have survived the military of my day.

You forgot the part about Vietnam vets being shit on when they returned home.

Thanks for your service Gaffer. :salute:

pegwinn
01-31-2008, 10:00 PM
To sign up for the military and then whine about how you were treated shows me your just a wuss. You could not have survived the military of my day.

And that,
is all she wrote.

Thanks Gaffer

AFbombloader
02-01-2008, 01:36 AM
Want to discussed being forced to serve? OK, I was drafted. I didn't have a choice. I was sent to basic training at Ft. Ord Calif. We lived in an old WW2 barracks that housed 50 guys. We slept in an open bay on bunk beds. The bathroom had open showers and toilets with no stalls. There was absolutely NO privacy what-so-ever. There was also no interior walls. We pulled fire watch and KP, we ran everywhere we went in full combat gear. whether it was two blocks or five miles.

I did not get a choice of what I wanted to do. I was put in the infantry. I was sent to Tigerland at Ft Polk La for AIT. Then off to Vietnam where I where I got to see the Iron Triangle, the Cambodian border and the central highlands. Again, no choices.

To sign up for the military and then whine about how you were treated shows me your just a wuss. You could not have survived the military of my day.

Tried to rep ya, darn rules!!!!!

Thanks for your service. My dad was there too.

AF:salute:

Gaffer
02-01-2008, 07:12 PM
You forgot the part about Vietnam vets being shit on when they returned home.

Thanks for your service Gaffer. :salute:

I didn't forget. It's one of the reasons I so despise liberals. Their game plan hasn't changed in over 40 years.

I just gave him a very brief description of things. He's never experienced hardship. But he is getting an example of animosity towards people like himself.

Black Lance
02-03-2008, 01:30 AM
I dont know what rude or insulting posts I have made other than to point out my disagreement with military training treatment. I got myself out early, since I was an 09S (officer candiate) I had the option of opting out, it took a long time to finally get my discharge but I did, I did 2 years in the gaurd including basic and went to the first OCS drill and submitted my letter of intent and talked to the major, by this time it was very clear I was not adapting to the military and forcing me to stay in would have axasperated the situation, I was up to about 33% body fat between basic and OCS and am still working to get it off so I would say I was very unable to adapt to military life, where I fault the military is there inability to ELS me in basic, they had absolutly no quality control in basic training, I should have never graduated but I did. In fact I even asked for an ELS and would have been more than happy to get on a plane the next day or even that night but that dident happen. The drill gave me the whole speach about how I signed up and im going to serve my country, I basicly shrugged my shoulders and said I dont care but if your not going to let me out I guess I will have to quit when I get home. At the end of basic they asked us again who wanted to quit but I was already going home in a week so I dident care to get yelled at again for no reason and there was no IG present to sign ELS forms and put us on a plane so I saved myself the trouble and quit when I got back to the guard.

The comment I made regarding watching the EPA guy stomp off is what caught my attention, what value does it add to harrass a GS-14 or GS anything for that matter?

Having just gotten out of AF BMT, I will comment briefly on this discussion.

rppearso, I am not going to join the chorus of people ridiculing you for deciding to leave the service. Military life is both stressful and demanding, and very few people even partially understand what they are getting themselves into when they sign on the dotted line. However, when you consider your basic training/OCS experience in hindsight, I think you need to reconsider your perspective some. I work on a daily basis with people who, going by your description, survived an initial training program much tougher than your basic was.

For example, you are complaining about fire watch, but some of the enlisted airmen I lead in the classroom every weekday worked multiple Entry Controller shifts (two hours each shift) per night during Basic Military Training. To give another example, you are complaining about how you gained weight during your basic. That suggests to me that you were given a reasonable amount of time to eat your meals. Members of my BMT flight had five minutes to eat each meal. I personally went from 185 to 155 pounds over six weeks. My physical appearance changed so much that my parents walked past me several times at the conclusion of BMT graduation and did not recognize me.

Speaking of BMT graduation, it is common, almost routine, for flights of new airmen graduating from BMT to have several members of the flight collapse during the ceremony. The reason for this is that, despite physical training, the lack of food and sleep leaves graduating airmen without enough energy to stand at parade rest for the duration of the ceremony, which is only about thirty minutes.

You also mentioned yelling and shouting. That's a routine part of basic training, and pretty much everyone knows this goes on, so why you would complain about it when this does in fact occur is beyond me. Yes, sometimes NCO's and officers go too far or give a hard time to people who don't deserve it, but officers are only human, and rank has its benefits. Sometimes you just have to suck it up.

The point of all these things, as someone else has already posted, it to test your mental toughness, and to wash out people who physically or psychologically are not fit to serve. Now, remember what has already been said about how officers need to have even more of this toughness than the enlisted force, as officers need to make decisions in the field rather than just allowing their training to take over.

Now, tell me honestly, do you still think your basic/OCS was too hard? Because it sounds to me like the people I work with every day were tested much more severely than you were, and we are all preparing for office jobs in logistics, not the field position you likely would have occupied in the army.

pegwinn
02-03-2008, 01:43 AM
You must spread yada yada yada Black Lance again.....

Y'all are allowed to collapse? Dammit, our Senior Drill Instructor told us that anyone in our Platoon (Parris Island) who collapsed would be recycled........ Funny thing, when my Daughter graduated 23 years later...... Her Platoon was told the same thing :laugh2:

Tradition baby, ya caint beat it wit a stick.

82Marine89
02-03-2008, 01:53 AM
You must spread yada yada yada Black Lance again.....

Y'all are allowed to collapse? Dammit, our Senior Drill Instructor told us that anyone in our Platoon (Parris Island) who collapsed would be recycled........ Funny thing, when my Daughter graduated 23 years later...... Her Platoon was told the same thing :laugh2:

Tradition baby, ya cant beat it wit a stick.

Damn, you had it easy. Our Senior said if we even thought about collapsing he would recycle us. :laugh2:

Black Lance
02-03-2008, 02:01 AM
You must spread yada yada yada Black Lance again.....

Y'all are allowed to collapse? Dammit, our Senior Drill Instructor told us that anyone in our Platoon (Parris Island) who collapsed would be recycled........ Funny thing, when my Daughter graduated 23 years later...... Her Platoon was told the same thing :laugh2:

Tradition baby, ya caint beat it wit a stick.

AF doesn't seem to emphasize "tradition" as much as the other branches of the military. I suspect this is because we are the newest service, and because the need to adapt to all the latest developments in avionics requires a certain amount of psychological flexibility.

We were also told we would be recycled if we collapsed, lol! Luckily for a few members of my flight it turned out to be an empty threat.

By the way pegwinn, my post wasn't meant to be a complaint, if that's what you think. I'm just trying to provide rppearso with some perspective on the relative difficulty of his entry training.

rppearso
02-03-2008, 06:23 AM
Having just gotten out of AF BMT, I will comment briefly on this discussion.

rppearso, I am not going to join the chorus of people ridiculing you for deciding to leave the service. Military life is both stressful and demanding, and very few people even partially understand what they are getting themselves into when they sign on the dotted line. However, when you consider your basic training/OCS experience in hindsight, I think you need to reconsider your perspective some. I work on a daily basis with people who, going by your description, survived an initial training program much tougher than your basic was.

For example, you are complaining about fire watch, but some of the enlisted airmen I lead in the classroom every weekday worked multiple Entry Controller shifts (two hours each shift) per night during Basic Military Training. To give another example, you are complaining about how you gained weight during your basic. That suggests to me that you were given a reasonable amount of time to eat your meals. Members of my BMT flight had five minutes to eat each meal. I personally went from 185 to 155 pounds over six weeks. My physical appearance changed so much that my parents walked past me several times at the conclusion of BMT graduation and did not recognize me.

Speaking of BMT graduation, it is common, almost routine, for flights of new airmen graduating from BMT to have several members of the flight collapse during the ceremony. The reason for this is that, despite physical training, the lack of food and sleep leaves graduating airmen without enough energy to stand at parade rest for the duration of the ceremony, which is only about thirty minutes.

You also mentioned yelling and shouting. That's a routine part of basic training, and pretty much everyone knows this goes on, so why you would complain about it when this does in fact occur is beyond me. Yes, sometimes NCO's and officers go too far or give a hard time to people who don't deserve it, but officers are only human, and rank has its benefits. Sometimes you just have to suck it up.

The point of all these things, as someone else has already posted, it to test your mental toughness, and to wash out people who physically or psychologically are not fit to serve. Now, remember what has already been said about how officers need to have even more of this toughness than the enlisted force, as officers need to make decisions in the field rather than just allowing their training to take over.

Now, tell me honestly, do you still think your basic/OCS was too hard? Because it sounds to me like the people I work with every day were tested much more severely than you were, and we are all preparing for office jobs in logistics, not the field position you likely would have occupied in the army.

I would agree with you that I did not have the mental toughness to be in the military. My complaint goes beyond a drill sgt yelling at me, to put it in list form because I am notorious for run on sentences

1. There was no quality control, had I not disenrolled myself and pushed to get out I would be a 1lt or cpt by now, (I was even encouraged to stay in a non military way by the major, I have alot of respect for that major because she did not attempt encouragement through intimidation which was of course outlined in my letter as one of the reasons I wanted to quit in the first place). I should have been ELSed in basic and in fact I even asked for it and was denyed.

2. Since I had endured a moderate boarder line severe injury I got to experence what the CTMC and PTRP were like first hand and after reading articles there are many who had it bad enough that congress should have been involved

http://onlyvolunteers.blogspot.com/2006/02/cadre-at-fort-sill-ptrp-thinks-abuse.html

http://www.counterpunch.org/jw04052006.html

This was one of the most deplorable things I have ever seen, the things done to people that should have been discharged equate to torture. Also the VA hospital incident. The fact that I experenced these things to a much milder degree tells me these are not one offs or flukes these are just the times the military sort of got caught. The military does not care about its own members well being, if you are lucky enough you will have a unit that will care about each other but the military as a whole could care less.

3. National gaurd should never be used for forign deployments, hence the word NATIONAL regardless of whatever beauricratic regulation you want to post, it is a blatent misuse of state resources for federal gain not to mention an undue strain on the members becasue they have civilian jobs, and often times full time military pay is way less than there civilian pay (in my case much much much less, full time military pay would not come close to covering my bills).

If you want to post ignorant/flaming or otherwise uninteresting posts I will ignore you, I have run out of patience for thoes who dont get it and tout the same BS I heard over and over when I was in, its like a broken record.

BTW black lance thank for posting something in an intellegent manner.

rppearso
02-03-2008, 06:37 AM
Want to discussed being forced to serve? OK, I was drafted. I didn't have a choice. I was sent to basic training at Ft. Ord Calif. We lived in an old WW2 barracks that housed 50 guys. We slept in an open bay on bunk beds. The bathroom had open showers and toilets with no stalls. There was absolutely NO privacy what-so-ever. There was also no interior walls. We pulled fire watch and KP, we ran everywhere we went in full combat gear. whether it was two blocks or five miles.

I did not get a choice of what I wanted to do. I was put in the infantry. I was sent to Tigerland at Ft Polk La for AIT. Then off to Vietnam where I where I got to see the Iron Triangle, the Cambodian border and the central highlands. Again, no choices.

To sign up for the military and then whine about how you were treated shows me your just a wuss. You could not have survived the military of my day.


You must have stepped over the yellow line and raised your hand, induction is really volunteering through intimidation. Just out of curiosity were there any that did not step forward, the constitution speaks about involuntary servitude, also you must have signed for inducton paper work you probably should not have done that. I would be curious as to how many did not step forward and what happened to them, I imagin they were encouraged though physical violence, thoes are the true heros.

Gaffer
02-03-2008, 09:47 AM
You must have stepped over the yellow line and raised your hand, induction is really volunteering through intimidation. Just out of curiosity were there any that did not step forward, the constitution speaks about involuntary servitude, also you must have signed for inducton paper work you probably should not have done that. I would be curious as to how many did not step forward and what happened to them, I imagin they were encouraged though physical violence, thoes are the true heros.

When we turned 18 we had to register for the draft. It's the law now and it was the law then. Failure to comply with the law meant jail time.

There was no yellow line to cross. And I didn't see anyone refuse to be inducted. But there were hundreds of guys all going through the same as me so I can't say if any did refuse, just none around me. The options were....serve or go to prison. There were a number of guys with me that were drafted into the Marines.

Your correct, drafting soldiers is induction through intimidation. And you do not get the best qualified or motivated people by doing that. From my own experience I know that the motivation is not there. Which is why I am totally against a draft except in times of emergency.

Most of those who wanted to avoid the draft either ran off to Canada or got deferments through college. It was a different world back then.

NATO AIR
02-03-2008, 01:57 PM
When Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and most of the generals who betrayed the military and the country are hanged.... I'll advise my (future) kids to consider joining.

Really, Hillary and all those Dems who signed up for the war and everything afterwards should hang too.

Politicians and generals do a great job TALKING about supporting the troops, but as anyone who deals with the people coming back from Iraq & Afghanistan know, there is a festering gap between talk and action.

Not to mention that our military has been misused since the Clinton era, sent on missions that were not clearly defined by the civilian leaders, often with one hand tied behind their back because of those leaders crap leadership (ala Clinton and the generals making the Air Force fight one-handed in Kosovo by forcing them to fly and bomb from super-high altitudes and not authorizing the use of our ground forces to give the Serbs the defeat they needed before they ethnically cleansed hundreds of thousands of Kosovar Albanians from their homes).

Or that we are forced to do the job of everyone else (without their support, in this I mean State, the White House, the civilian Pentagon, etc.) because the federal government is so pathetically out of tune with the realities of the world and what is necessary and required to succeed.

Or how generals who were on the ground in Afghanistan were ignored when they told the truth; that going to war with Iraq would imperil success in Afghanistan, which it has, as we're finding out to our great sadness recently.

Or how even more generals and others were ignored when they said we needed enough troops to win the peace in Iraq. Thousands of Americans died because of that arrogance by the civilians and the pathetic, squalid silence of most of the generals (like Tommy Franks) who went along with the bullshit plan (or lack thereof).

I look at it like this... the military is an INCREDIBLE SOCIAL VEHICLE for most. You will experience the bonds of friendship with amazing people who mostly share a respect for hard work, honesty and skill that is either natural or well-ingrained in you by the time you exit basic and other schools before entering the fleet, the Corps, etc.

Honor, courage and intelligence are in abundance among you and even many of your leaders.

But in the end, you're just a pawn in some politician or career general (looking at a plum job at a defense contractor after retirement) 's plans. They don't give a damn about you or the service you're in. They'll screw you at every opportunity, from shafting the VA of funds when you get out to limiting how much college or skills training you can have in the active duty military. You'll be using crap equipment that is inferior in design and quality to most of what you should have, but don't, because again, the designer and design was usually picked by some politician based on politics and greed.

We're at war. Thus, with poor leadership in Washington and the Pentagon (aside from a few like SECDEF Gates & General Mattis), you run a serious risk of getting caught up in some politician's cluster***, especially if you join the Marines or Army.

I see a glorious institution beset by incompetence, unaccountability and arrogance. It's a shame and I hope that in future administrations a lot of the damage done by Clinton and Bush can be repaired, much as Reagan empowered people to correct much of the mistakes of the past.

So until that moment, if I had children, I would advise them to become police officers or consider joining the Navy or Coast Guard at best. Their danger of dying from hubris of some politician or crap general is least there.

AFbombloader
02-03-2008, 02:14 PM
:salute:
I would agree with you that I did not have the mental toughness to be in the military. My complaint goes beyond a drill sgt yelling at me, to put it in list form because I am notorious for run on sentences

1. There was no quality control, had I not disenrolled myself and pushed to get out I would be a 1lt or cpt by now, (I was even encouraged to stay in a non military way by the major, I have alot of respect for that major because she did not attempt encouragement through intimidation which was of course outlined in my letter as one of the reasons I wanted to quit in the first place). I should have been ELSed in basic and in fact I even asked for it and was denyed.

2. Since I had endured a moderate boarder line severe injury I got to experence what the CTMC and PTRP were like first hand and after reading articles there are many who had it bad enough that congress should have been involved

http://onlyvolunteers.blogspot.com/2006/02/cadre-at-fort-sill-ptrp-thinks-abuse.html

http://www.counterpunch.org/jw04052006.html

This was one of the most deplorable things I have ever seen, the things done to people that should have been discharged equate to torture. Also the VA hospital incident. The fact that I experenced these things to a much milder degree tells me these are not one offs or flukes these are just the times the military sort of got caught. The military does not care about its own members well being, if you are lucky enough you will have a unit that will care about each other but the military as a whole could care less.

3. National gaurd should never be used for forign deployments, hence the word NATIONAL regardless of whatever beauricratic regulation you want to post, it is a blatent misuse of state resources for federal gain not to mention an undue strain on the members becasue they have civilian jobs, and often times full time military pay is way less than there civilian pay (in my case much much much less, full time military pay would not come close to covering my bills).

If you want to post ignorant/flaming or otherwise uninteresting posts I will ignore you, I have run out of patience for thoes who dont get it and tout the same BS I heard over and over when I was in, its like a broken record.

BTW black lance thank for posting something in an intellegent manner.

This is yet another example of you not shutting up when you make a good piont. Until you last paragraph I was agreeing with your point of view. But to slam those of us who have made a reply to one of your statements is juvinile and immature. I agree with everything Black Lance has said to this point. I see not much has changed sincve I went through BMT for the AF. And for that I am quite happy, because I feel we are growing the best people in the armed services. To answer your #3, the national guard should be available for whatefver deployments the Army, Air Force or whatever chooses for them. What make them special? Last I checked, they swear to the same oath as everyone else. They are a federal resource before they are a state resource. I think if everyone did their job and just shut the fuck up we would not have the issues we have now.
I am glad to see you have admitted that you were notcut out for the military.I would agree with you that I did not have the mental toughness to be in the military. You would have not been an asset to whatever unit you were assigned to if you were passed through. Thank God everyday that things came out the way they did because you could have effected the lives of many people in an extremely negative way. You seem to be happy now. Why do you feel it is necessary to take this angle of attack with the military? It was not for you, does it mean it will not be for someone else? If you have a negative experience, it is yours. Tell us about it, but allow us to make our own minds up.


AF

AFbombloader
02-03-2008, 02:22 PM
So until that moment, if I had children, I would advise them to become police officers or consider joining the Navy or Coast Guard at best. Their danger of dying from hubris of some politician or crap general is least there.

Do you honestly think either of the service you listed are immune to the effects you listed? If you do you are an idiot. Both of those branches are fully immersed in the war in Iraq and the CG is the prime agent of the war on terror in the ports in the us. Those young men and are in as much danger as the rest of us. Join or don't join, that is the choice. The danger may be greater in the Army or the USMC, but the danger is still there.

AF:salute:

Kathianne
02-03-2008, 02:39 PM
and politicians have always interfered in war, usually badly:

Civil War and before:

http://home.carolina.rr.com/civilwarcauses/


Wilson and WWI:

http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0601g.asp


The Industrial-Military Complex WWII:

http://www.amazon.com/Arsenal-World-War-Political-1940%C2%BF1945/dp/0700613080

it goes on and on...

NATO AIR
02-03-2008, 03:04 PM
Do you honestly think either of the service you listed are immune to the effects you listed? If you do you are an idiot. Both of those branches are fully immersed in the war in Iraq and the CG is the prime agent of the war on terror in the ports in the us. Those young men and are in as much danger as the rest of us. Join or don't join, that is the choice. The danger may be greater in the Army or the USMC, but the danger is still there.

AF:salute:

Our missions are different. We do have IA's and the FMF corpsmen, as well as the naval pilots and crew members. The average sailor though faces far less at this moment in time, though stupidity over China or Iran could easily see quite a few ships attacked and sunk.

Our enemies are less the politicians and grubby admirals and more the dirtbag contractors who do crap repairs that put us at risk in a varying degree of situations. At least they punish those fucks though, because guys like me could come after the fact and tell you what happened and why and show the evidence in a court of law if necessary.

NATO AIR
02-03-2008, 03:05 PM
and politicians have always interfered in war, usually badly:

Civil War and before:

http://home.carolina.rr.com/civilwarcauses/


Wilson and WWI:

http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0601g.asp


The Industrial-Military Complex WWII:

http://www.amazon.com/Arsenal-World-War-Political-1940%C2%BF1945/dp/0700613080

it goes on and on...


Indeed. Especially now in our wars of choice and misbegotten strategies, I would not want my kid to die because of some politician's stupidity, arrogance or greed.

pegwinn
02-03-2008, 03:47 PM
Grasshopper. I am glad to see that you are making an effort to regain your Kung Fu. Please read on....


I would agree with you that I did not have the mental toughness to be in the military. My complaint goes beyond a drill sgt yelling at me, to put it in list form because I am notorious for run on sentences The first step to reconciling failure is to admit to yourself that you, not society or the Army or even your family, are the one that failed. From there you can begin to figure out why and take steps, if needed, to correct the problem. By admitting that you lacked the mental toughness, you have taken a worthy first step.

1. There was no quality control, had I not disenrolled myself and pushed to get out I would be a 1lt or cpt by now, (I was even encouraged to stay in a non military way by the major, I have alot of respect for that major because she did not attempt encouragement through intimidation which was of course outlined in my letter as one of the reasons I wanted to quit in the first place). I should have been ELSed in basic and in fact I even asked for it and was denyed. Many recruits believe that they cannot make it, when in reality they can. You have to understand that the services balance the minimum standards against the quality of the applicant. They also know that many recruits have never been in a situation where quitting was not an option. Asking to quit in your recruit or entry level training is often simply someone who can succeed, but doesn't know it yet. As to quality control, I can only speak for Marines. But, I am certain that if pushed there would be documentation of your successes and evaluations to demonstrate that you were not perfect. But, good enough really does mean, Good Enough.

2. Since I had endured a moderate boarder line severe injury I got to experence what the CTMC and PTRP were like first hand and after reading articles there are many who had it bad enough that congress should have been involved. My daughter is a Marine as well. During her time at SOI (School of Infantry) she twisted her ankle and knee on a night movement at Camp Geiger. She was dropped, and sent to the MRP. MRP is Medical Rehabilitation Platoon. On a daily basis her training day was physical therapy to rebuild her strength. She also endured the usual chickenshit (her words) of formations, inspections, duty or a-duty etc. What she, and many others in the PVT/PFC realm don't understand is that by doing those things, she never forgot that she was a Marine. What she saw was "I am supposed to be getting better and these idiots are worried about me passing a fucking JOB". Also, there are two chains of command at MRP. The primary COC is the troop handlers, Company Level, etc. The second is medical. The bottom line is that the medical folks decided she was fit. So, once she passed a PFT she went back to an SOI class to complete her training. I am going out on a limb here, but I bet the Army PTRP is run pretty close to this with one difference. My daughter was a Marine, not a recruit as SOI comes after boot camp. These soldiers, were not really Soldiers. Since they had not graduated from recruit training, a semblence of the recruit training structure has to be maintained to at least salvage a bit of the training received. I understand that sucks. But unlike you and the blogger, I understand why it has to be that way.

http://onlyvolunteers.blogspot.com/2006/02/cadre-at-fort-sill-ptrp-thinks-abuse.html

Intereting Blog. But, I have to wonder, why is it written by a Mom who is obviously not Army Literate? She cannot do anything but emphasize with her adopted Soldiers without a BS filter. She is seeing things thru thier eyes. There is a remedy built in as well. From one of the comments on the same page as the above link:

While, yes in every organization, there is a bad apple. You have no right to blame the Chain of Command. Any and all incidents should have been reported promptly. I am sure it would have been taken care of in an appropriate and just manner.


http://www.counterpunch.org/jw04052006.html

This was one of the most deplorable things I have ever seen, the things done to people that should have been discharged equate to torture. Also the VA hospital incident. The fact that I experenced these things to a much milder degree tells me these are not one offs or flukes these are just the times the military sort of got caught. The military does not care about its own members well being, if you are lucky enough you will have a unit that will care about each other but the military as a whole could care less.

I read the entire second link. The physical abuse should have been nipped in the bud and the Drill Sergeant punished. The First Sergeant (according to the author) should have been punished. The issue is that the troops in question had not completed the basic training to the degree to know how to properly report these things. The woman writing the blog is screaming at the top of her lungs in the wrong directions as well. IF she really wants to help, then she needs to educate herself on the system in place. Simply building a website that gets lots of hits won't do it. Your comments about the military not caring are simply ignorant since you personally didn't get high enough in the food chain to be charged with leadership of Soldiers.

3. National gaurd should never be used for forign deployments, hence the word NATIONAL regardless of whatever beauricratic regulation you want to post, it is a blatent misuse of state resources for federal gain not to mention an undue strain on the members becasue they have civilian jobs, and often times full time military pay is way less than there civilian pay (in my case much much much less, full time military pay would not come close to covering my bills). I'm guessing that you, a college graduate, did no personal research on the mission of the Army Guard before you volunteerd? Also, had you successfully integrated into the Guard and gained the experience you would have received follow on training to address the financial issues you mention. But, since you didn't, Let me try to help you out. This is getting to be a long post. So, go, here, and let that be your starting point. Soldiers and Sailors Relief Act of 1940 as amended in 1991 (http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/sscra/a/sscra.htm)

If you want to post ignorant/flaming or otherwise uninteresting posts I will ignore you, I have run out of patience for thoes who dont get it and tout the same BS I heard over and over when I was in, its like a broken record. Grasshopper, you get what you give. When you post like an idiot you will get flames. When you post intelligently you will get discussion. This post is the first one I have seen out of you that appears to have been written by someone who didn't flunk out of "Are you smarter than a fifth grader?".

BTW black lance thank for posting something in an intellegent manner.

BTW. I will easily admit that a full ten percent of the US Military doesn't deserve to be there. They are the ones who made it under the radar and thru the cracks. Often they will slink and worm thier way into areas where they will not be closely monitored and then do great harm.

Personally when I encountered them, like a snake, they were outed and worse. But, to paint the entire US Army with that brush is no more fair than you thought they were to you.

Black Lance
02-03-2008, 04:02 PM
I would agree with you that I did not have the mental toughness to be in the military. My complaint goes beyond a drill sgt yelling at me, to put it in list form because I am notorious for run on sentences

1. There was no quality control, had I not disenrolled myself and pushed to get out I would be a 1lt or cpt by now, (I was even encouraged to stay in a non military way by the major, I have alot of respect for that major because she did not attempt encouragement through intimidation which was of course outlined in my letter as one of the reasons I wanted to quit in the first place). I should have been ELSed in basic and in fact I even asked for it and was denyed.

Your overall performance was probably rated "satisfactory", even if your attitude sucked. Lots of new recruits initially have a hard time adapting to military life, which (along with the current manpower shortage) is probably why the army wasn't in a hurry to wash you out. They were giving you time to adapt. As for your wanting to quit, you probably knew when you chose to enlisted that you couldn't just quit the military anytime you felt like it.



2. Since I had endured a moderate boarder line severe injury I got to experence what the CTMC and PTRP were like first hand and after reading articles there are many who had it bad enough that congress should have been involved

http://onlyvolunteers.blogspot.com/2006/02/cadre-at-fort-sill-ptrp-thinks-abuse.html

http://www.counterpunch.org/jw04052006.html

This was one of the most deplorable things I have ever seen, the things done to people that should have been discharged equate to torture. Also the VA hospital incident. The fact that I experenced these things to a much milder degree tells me these are not one offs or flukes these are just the times the military sort of got caught. The military does not care about its own members well being, if you are lucky enough you will have a unit that will care about each other but the military as a whole could care less.

I can't comment on the medical situation, as I have never been hospitalized while in service. As for the military "torturing" people who should have been given a medical discharge, I can only comment on the AF, but I haven't observed this to be the case. I know several airmen who went to great lengths to avoid being removed from the service due to injuries sustained during BMT. They are now tech school students, and holders of the much envied PT waiver.

I have to agree with your overall assesment of the militaries attitude towards its personnel. On the whole, they don't care about your welfare, especially if you are an enlisted member. The military exists to accomplish its mission, and as a sailor/marine/soldier/airmen, you are used as a tool to achieve that end. But, again rppearso, perspective: most civilian employers also don't care about their employees, and simply use them as tools to make the company money. The only reason this attitude is more noticeable in the military than it is among civilian employers is because the military makes more demands on its workers, and because military duty hours are often longer than civilian work hours.



3. National gaurd should never be used for forign deployments, hence the word NATIONAL regardless of whatever beauricratic regulation you want to post, it is a blatent misuse of state resources for federal gain not to mention an undue strain on the members becasue they have civilian jobs, and often times full time military pay is way less than there civilian pay (in my case much much much less, full time military pay would not come close to covering my bills).

If you want to post ignorant/flaming or otherwise uninteresting posts I will ignore you, I have run out of patience for thoes who dont get it and tout the same BS I heard over and over when I was in, its like a broken record.

BTW black lance thank for posting something in an intellegent manner.

The Guard has a Federal mission as well as a State mission. Given the manpower shortage the army is facing right now you should have known that before the end of your enlistment you would be deployed.

gabosaurus
02-03-2008, 04:47 PM
The best way to avoid dying in a war is to get rid of the politicians who begin them.
Bush and Cheney, et all, started the Iraq war to satisfy their own selfish purposes. They are more than willing to see people die as a result of them.
When our country gets more responsible leadership, perhaps then the services will become a more viable option for young people.

pegwinn
02-03-2008, 06:34 PM
The best way to avoid dying in a war is to get rid of the politicians who begin them.
Bush and Cheney, et all, started the Iraq war to satisfy their own selfish purposes. They are more than willing to see people die as a result of them.
When our country gets more responsible leadership, perhaps then the services will become a more viable option for young people.

A noble sentiment. But the truth is that there has never been a political combination in the USA that did not deploy the military into harms way.

Your beef with Bush is noted and even understood. But, it is misguided.

manu1959
02-03-2008, 06:52 PM
The best way to avoid dying in a war is to get rid of the politicians who begin them.
Bush and Cheney, et all, started the Iraq war to satisfy their own selfish purposes. They are more than willing to see people die as a result of them.
When our country gets more responsible leadership, perhaps then the services will become a more viable option for young people.

couple of questions for you you....

what is the purpose of the military....

name a president that has not sent our boys to war....

Mr. P
02-03-2008, 08:25 PM
The best way to avoid dying in a war is to get rid of the politicians who begin them.
Bush and Cheney, et all, started the Iraq war to satisfy their own selfish purposes. They are more than willing to see people die as a result of them.
When our country gets more responsible leadership, perhaps then the services will become a more viable option for young people.

The Bush bashing is transparent and mindless gab.

gabosaurus
02-04-2008, 02:17 AM
Who was the last president to invade a foreign country without provocation? Then remain there without reason?
Bush is a loose cannon. His idiocy has cost the lives of thousands of Americans.

Sitarro
02-04-2008, 02:48 AM
Who was the last president to invade a foreign country without provocation? Then remain there without reason?
Bush is a loose cannon. His idiocy has cost the lives of thousands of Americans.

What is your definition of provocation, how many politicians didn't agree that Saddam was a threat to the U.S. and it's allies? The United States didn't invade Iraq, they fought against Saddam and his military to liberate the Iraqi people ...... at least that is what my Orthopaedic surgeon said to me last week, he is Iraqi who fled Iraq to get away from Saddam's regime.

Abbey
02-04-2008, 12:06 PM
What is your definition of provocation, how many politicians didn't agree that Saddam was a threat to the U.S. and it's allies? The United States didn't invade Iraq, they fought against Saddam and his military to liberate the Iraqi people ...... at least that is what my Orthopaedic surgeon said to me last week, he is Iraqi who fled Iraq to get away from Saddam's regime.

In addition to the major international intelligence agenices...

gabosaurus
02-04-2008, 12:34 PM
Nice spin try. Where is the attack? Or even threat of such? Why didn't we invade Saudi Arabia instead? They are the ones that financed 15 of the 19 Sept. 11 hijackers.
Bush is an international terrorist. That is his legacy to history.

Mr. P
02-04-2008, 01:36 PM
Who was the last president to invade a foreign country without provocation? Then remain there without reason?
Bush is a loose cannon. His idiocy has cost the lives of thousands of Americans.

Lincoln.....and them DAMN yanks ain't left yet!

rppearso
02-04-2008, 04:06 PM
Grasshopper. I am glad to see that you are making an effort to regain your Kung Fu. Please read on....



BTW. I will easily admit that a full ten percent of the US Military doesn't deserve to be there. They are the ones who made it under the radar and thru the cracks. Often they will slink and worm thier way into areas where they will not be closely monitored and then do great harm.

Personally when I encountered them, like a snake, they were outed and worse. But, to paint the entire US Army with that brush is no more fair than you thought they were to you.

Maybe they should disolve the national guard and reserves and just have everything be active duty there is no reason to have a seperate entity if they are all going to eventaully serve the same purpose anyways.

Did you ever think that maybe thoes 10% you speak of were thoes that made a bad decision to join and were not able to get out like I did and are just trying to make it through there enlistment contract alive. Just because people "volunteer" does not mean they want to stay, what seemed like a good idea at the time may not be anymore. Why would you want to ruin someones life with an OTH discharge or what ever the "much worse" refers to just because they are not GI Joe super trooper and they are just muddling there way through a bad choise in life, if you think there muddling is holding you up then why be melevolant and give them extra hardships instead of just cutting them loose with an honorable so they can get on with the rest of there life (because anything less than an honorable can potentially have negitive conotations when you are trying for a security clearance later on.

rppearso
02-04-2008, 05:37 PM
BTW how do you report a bad reputation, AF bomb loader must be a 13 yr old posing as an adult.

Nukeman
02-04-2008, 08:41 PM
BTW how do you report a bad reputation, AF bomb loader must be a 13 yr old posing as an adult.Dude you are seriously one of the most dense people to come on this board lately.

AF is a very good friend of mine and I will say he has been in the USAF for going on 20 years He definitley does not need me "defending" him, he is a big boy who can take care of himself as well as people like you.

Currently he is stationed halfway around the world defending your right to call him into question. He is away from not only his friends but his FAMILY as well. He will not see his wife or kids for the next year.

You my friend need to realize that just because YOU didn't have the stamina or the steadfastness to complete "your" training does not mean you have the right to call into question anyone elses ability, courage, and COMMITMENT.

The bolded word is obviously the one that you have trouble with. When an ADULT makes a commitment to do something THEY DO IT. I understand that sometimes things "just dont work out" but my God man get over it the military obviously wasn't for you (and is probably better off without you) so quit nitpicking on everything that happens there.

As for AF, I would personaly kick anyone's ass for giving this very commited airman and family man any grief that he does not deserve, especialy from someone of your ilk....

Got a problem with that PM me I would love to discuss your issues.....:slap:

Nukeman
02-04-2008, 08:55 PM
I will add that I have stayed out of this particular thread due to the fact that I did not serve in the armed forces I took a different path through life. That being said my family is filled with those that have served and are currently still serving and going through basic.

I would support my childrens choice to serve if that is what they wish to do. I will not stand in there way one bit. For some it is a great way to learn a trade/skill to get confidence in ones self and to get a helping hand with college tuition. So I would say if they choose to join I would encourge them in their choice....

rppearso
02-04-2008, 09:03 PM
I would agree with you that I did not have the mental toughness to be in the military. My complaint goes beyond a drill sgt yelling at me, to put it in list form because I am notorious for run on sentences

1. There was no quality control, had I not disenrolled myself and pushed to get out I would be a 1lt or cpt by now, (I was even encouraged to stay in a non military way by the major, I have alot of respect for that major because she did not attempt encouragement through intimidation which was of course outlined in my letter as one of the reasons I wanted to quit in the first place). I should have been ELSed in basic and in fact I even asked for it and was denyed.

2. Since I had endured a moderate boarder line severe injury I got to experence what the CTMC and PTRP were like first hand and after reading articles there are many who had it bad enough that congress should have been involved

http://onlyvolunteers.blogspot.com/2006/02/cadre-at-fort-sill-ptrp-thinks-abuse.html

http://www.counterpunch.org/jw04052006.html

This was one of the most deplorable things I have ever seen, the things done to people that should have been discharged equate to torture. Also the VA hospital incident. The fact that I experenced these things to a much milder degree tells me these are not one offs or flukes these are just the times the military sort of got caught. The military does not care about its own members well being, if you are lucky enough you will have a unit that will care about each other but the military as a whole could care less.

3. National gaurd should never be used for forign deployments, hence the word NATIONAL regardless of whatever beauricratic regulation you want to post, it is a blatent misuse of state resources for federal gain not to mention an undue strain on the members becasue they have civilian jobs, and often times full time military pay is way less than there civilian pay (in my case much much much less, full time military pay would not come close to covering my bills).

If you want to post ignorant/flaming or otherwise uninteresting posts I will ignore you, I have run out of patience for thoes who dont get it and tout the same BS I heard over and over when I was in, its like a broken record.

BTW black lance thank for posting something in an intellegent manner.

I feel the need to call someone into question when they rep you with "go fuck yourself!" over the above post there was nothing about the above post that warranted that comment in a reputation so if someone wants to act like a 13 yr old then im going to call them into question for it. If he dident like the last paragraph to bad im tired of it so when people can stop flaming I wont have to make comments like the last paragraph.

Nukeman
02-04-2008, 09:06 PM
I feel the need to call someone into question when they rep you with "go fuck yourself!" over the above post there was nothing about the above post that warranted that comment in a reputation so if someone wants to act like a 13 yr old then im going to call them into question for it. If he dident like the last paragraph to bad im tired of it so when people can stop flaming I wont have to make comments like the last paragraph.
Hey dipshit PM and rep comments are private and should not be aired on the open board. So I tell yaa what numbnuts next time do us all a little favor TAKE IT LIKE A FREAKING MAN YOU PUSSY!!!

Don't like the negative rep dont post something so blatently negative about the US armed forces on a web sight that has a VERY high number of currently active and retired military personel.......DUMBASS:poke:

rppearso
02-04-2008, 11:22 PM
Hey dipshit PM and rep comments are private and should not be aired on the open board. So I tell yaa what numbnuts next time do us all a little favor TAKE IT LIKE A FREAKING MAN YOU PUSSY!!!

Don't like the negative rep dont post something so blatently negative about the US armed forces on a web sight that has a VERY high number of currently active and retired military personel.......DUMBASS:poke:

You must be his 12 yr old brother, there was nothing in that post that was not true but because a few dident like it they had to cry instead of posting rational adult posts like pegwinn did.

rppearso
02-04-2008, 11:25 PM
Hey dipshit PM and rep comments are private and should not be aired on the open board. So I tell yaa what numbnuts next time do us all a little favor TAKE IT LIKE A FREAKING MAN YOU PUSSY!!!

Don't like the negative rep dont post something so blatently negative about the US armed forces on a web sight that has a VERY high number of currently active and retired military personel.......DUMBASS:poke:

I hate to see the way you would treat your kids if they have independant thoughts contrary to your own.

pegwinn
02-04-2008, 11:47 PM
Who was the last president to invade a foreign country without provocation? Then remain there without reason?
Bush is a loose cannon. His idiocy has cost the lives of thousands of Americans.

Pick a President that sent the military westward and essentially conquered the Indians. Of course, the indians fought like men, died like men, and when they lost, they even lost like men. Then fast forward to the President that sent the Marines and Army into Mexico to hunt for Pancho Villa. Let's not forget the one that directed the "opening" of Japan. Or possibly the movement into the Phillipenes. Of course no discussion of actions (not an invasion in this case) would be FDR setting up concentration camps for Japanese Americans. Then again I don't recall what the national security threats in Korea or Vietnam were either.

manu1959
02-04-2008, 11:56 PM
Who was the last president to invade a foreign country without provocation? Then remain there without reason?
Bush is a loose cannon. His idiocy has cost the lives of thousands of Americans.

clinton twice times....somalia.....bosnia neither attacked the us......oddly we were attacked four times by obl forces during clinton's pres and he did nothing.....

pegwinn
02-05-2008, 12:16 AM
Grasshopper, your lack of progress is wearing thin. Observe.


Maybe they should disolve the national guard and reserves and just have everything be active duty there is no reason to have a seperate entity if they are all going to eventaully serve the same purpose anyways. Bullshit. You, rppearso, are the one who volunteered. You are the one who claims to be college educated. You are the one who should have done his due diligence. It is not the Army Guards fault that you don't agree with the federal portion of their mission.

Did you ever think that maybe thoes 10% you speak of were thoes that made a bad decision to join and were not able to get out like I did and are just trying to make it through there enlistment contract alive. Sorry my young friend. The ten percent I spoke of are the dishonest who steal things from other Marines in the field. They are the Officers who forget that "Mission First, Marines Always" or "Honor, Courage, Commitment" or (my personal fave) Semper Fidelis mean more than advertising slogans. They are the abusive Corporals and Sergeants and the Staff NCO that lets them get away with it. They are the ones that betray everything my Marine Corps stands for. Those are the ones that I will locate, close with, and crucify. Your ten percenters are the weak. They are the ones who are unfit. Most of them are salvageable with good leadership even if they don't believe in themselves. I am closing in on 44 and have been retired almost five years. I absolutely know, without a speck of doubt, that in 21 days I could lead you from self loathing failure into a worthy recruit that would be as hard as woodpecker lips and would wake up every day ready to break down brick buildings. In those twenty-one days you would hate my guts. But at the end we would have cured you of the defeatist attitude and you could then take a shot at success in the Army Guard.

Just because people "volunteer" does not mean they want to stay, what seemed like a good idea at the time may not be anymore. Yeah, the divorce courts are full of those.

Why would you want to ruin someones life with an OTH discharge or what ever the "much worse" refers to just because they are not GI Joe super trooper and they are just muddling there way through a bad choise in life, if you think there muddling is holding you up then why be melevolant and give them extra hardships instead of just cutting them loose For starters an OTH means you fucked up. It means that you violated the UCMJ and the OTH is part of your punishment. And, if I invest 30 to 50K on your ass, I will not simply cut you loose because you haven't developed the balls and audacity to grab your objective by the neck and choke it into submission. USMC also stands for U Signed the Motherfuckin Contract. It means that you were not a boy, but made a deal as a man.

with an honorable so they can get on with the rest of there life (because anything less than an honorable can potentially have negitive conotations when you are trying for a security clearance later on. Let's assume you get good leadership and proper training for a moment. If you still cannot adapt, why should you get a discharge that is specifically reserved for those who are successful? This isn't the new public schools where competition is bad and everyone gets a a ribbon for playing. A General Under Honorable Conditions discharge is what is merited by someone who honestly tried and honestly isn't up to it. Besides, looking at it from an objective standpoint, I do not want someone to get a clearance who cannot successfully complete a basic four year tour of duty. That person is a security risk. Achmed the Asshole can simply turn you into his own information ATM by carding your ol lady or kids.

RP, all Grasshopper kidding aside, you get what you give. If you badmouth the services, you have to be able to back it up all the way. That will earn you honest discussion if not rep points. The people on this board know thier shit and will not tolerate blind attacks. Most of us have heard some form of loud scary noises and smelled the armpits of the world. So, bring your shit but don't sling the shit.

Back to training, if you wish, your Kung Fu can become strong.

AFbombloader
02-05-2008, 05:10 AM
I feel the need to call someone into question when they rep you with "go fuck yourself!" over the above post there was nothing about the above post that warranted that comment in a reputation so if someone wants to act like a 13 yr old then im going to call them into question for it. If he dident like the last paragraph to bad im tired of it so when people can stop flaming I wont have to make comments like the last paragraph.


BTW how do you report a bad reputation, AF bomb loader must be a 13 yr old posing as an adult.

I never posed as anything more than I am, can you say the same? What have I posted that would give any indication of this? If it is because of the neg rep I gave you, oh well. I have every right to give out negative or positive rep points as I see fit. You have the same. The negative rep I gave you was in direct responce to your statement...

rppearso "If you want to post ignorant/flaming or otherwise uninteresting posts I will ignore you, I have run out of patience for thoes who dont get it and tout the same BS I heard over and over when I was in, its like a broken record."

While I had issues with what you said about the military I also said your experience is yours and yours alone.


I can tell from your post that you have never served and have absolutely no clue what the military is or is about. Please talk about what you know. Your experience is yours alone, it doesn't relate to military life as a whole. There are many people in here that have served and have had great experiences. I have 19+ years in the Air Force myself and have no complaints. I hope you will learn to open yourself to the opinions of others because there are great things in all walks of life, the military included.


I have had 2 years in the army national gaurd so I definatly speak from experence and have credibility, I am disappointed to see that most people on here can not form a rational debate, and I still ask to what in any of my posts warrent the rude and uninteresting posts. I agree a carefully crafted one liner can be useful and entertaining, but "shut up poop head" is definatly not one of them nor are any of the other posts on this tread.

I did call into question your "experience and credibility" because in other posts you stated you never completed training yet you claim to be both? I don't feel 10 years in the National Guard give you any experience in what the active duty military is like. How can it? You are not active and cannot speak for it.


Is this the only board discussing this topic on the entire world wide web?


Would 'fuck off' work better?


A carefully constructed attitude works too. Something to think about.

Work on the personality side of things, too. Yours is like watching paint dry, only more boring and paint is less arrogant.

But seriously, now. Fuck off.

Hope that was droll and knuckledraggingish enough for you. Now get out THERE and have a holierthanthou, pompous ass day! :)

For what it is worth, I wasn't the first person the tell you to fuck off, sorry, go fuck yourself was my private message to you. Andif you stay around long enough, I won't be the last.

I feel that there have been many posts in responce to yours and many of them were intelligent and well worded, just in disagreement with you. But you fail to see those so some reply in a maner that gets your attention. That is the way things are and if you can't take it I feel badly for you. Life must be very difficult. See the following for a reply that you did not reply to, should I make a big deal because you didn't?


:salute:

This is yet another example of you not shutting up when you make a good piont. Until you last paragraph I was agreeing with your point of view. But to slam those of us who have made a reply to one of your statements is juvinile and immature. I agree with everything Black Lance has said to this point. I see not much has changed sincve I went through BMT for the AF. And for that I am quite happy, because I feel we are growing the best people in the armed services. To answer your #3, the national guard should be available for whatever deployments the Army, Air Force or whatever chooses for them. What make them special? Last I checked, they swear to the same oath as everyone else. They are a federal resource before they are a state resource. I think if everyone did their job and just shut the fuck up we would not have the issues we have now.
I am glad to see you have admitted that you were notcut out for the military.I would agree with you that I did not have the mental toughness to be in the military. You would have not been an asset to whatever unit you were assigned to if you were passed through. Thank God everyday that things came out the way they did because you could have effected the lives of many people in an extremely negative way. You seem to be happy now. Why do you feel it is necessary to take this angle of attack with the military? It was not for you, does it mean it will not be for someone else? If you have a negative experience, it is yours. Tell us about it, but allow us to make our own minds up.

Again, I have dealt with you as respectfully as I could and I will continue to do so. Try it for yourself.

AFbombloader
02-05-2008, 05:16 AM
Dude you are seriously one of the most dense people to come on this board lately.

AF is a very good friend of mine and I will say he has been in the USAF for going on 20 years He definitley does not need me "defending" him, he is a big boy who can take care of himself as well as people like you.

Currently he is stationed halfway around the world defending your right to call him into question. He is away from not only his friends but his FAMILY as well. He will not see his wife or kids for the next year.

You my friend need to realize that just because YOU didn't have the stamina or the steadfastness to complete "your" training does not mean you have the right to call into question anyone elses ability, courage, and COMMITMENT.

The bolded word is obviously the one that you have trouble with. When an ADULT makes a commitment to do something THEY DO IT. I understand that sometimes things "just dont work out" but my God man get over it the military obviously wasn't for you (and is probably better off without you) so quit nitpicking on everything that happens there.

As for AF, I would personaly kick anyone's ass for giving this very commited airman and family man any grief that he does not deserve, especialy from someone of your ilk....

Got a problem with that PM me I would love to discuss your issues.....:slap:


Thanks Nuke, but don't waste your typing with him. I don't care what he thinks of me. You and Trigg are true friends and you know me for what I am. He doesn't and never will. I appreciate your response.

AF:salute:

AFbombloader
02-05-2008, 05:20 AM
I feel the need to call someone into question when they rep you with "go fuck yourself!" over the above post there was nothing about the above post that warranted that comment in a reputation so if someone wants to act like a 13 yr old then im going to call them into question for it. If he dident like the last paragraph to bad im tired of it so when people can stop flaming I wont have to make comments like the last paragraph.

One question? Who are you to choose what an interesting post is? That is up to all of us. That is why this is a message board and not personal IM's.

AF:salute:

AFbombloader
02-05-2008, 05:43 AM
I hate to see the way you would treat your kids if they have independant thoughts contrary to your own.

Dude. You make these comments and then complain when they are made back? Or we respond with a negative rep? You can't have it both ways.

Nuke is a very good father and I know he will support his children in whatever they want, his idea or not. He is there for they no matter what. If you want to make statements about me, or Nuke, that is fine. But you cross the line when you bring in family. Do you have kids? I get the feeling you do not. Someday if you do, you will see what I am talking about.

AF:salute:

Nukeman
02-05-2008, 07:23 AM
You must be his 12 yr old brother, there was nothing in that post that was not true but because a few dident like it they had to cry instead of posting rational adult posts like pegwinn did.
Who the fuck is doing the crying here.

"ohh poor little me I couldn't handle the military, I can't handle the neg rep, I don't like to be called names.....etc.....etc....."

So tell me there buddy who is the one doing all the freaking whinning. You are a waste of time and flesh as far as I am concerned.......

Nukeman
02-05-2008, 07:26 AM
I hate to see the way you would treat your kids if they have independant thoughts contrary to your own.
And just exactly where do you get this soo enlightend thoughts on me and my family. For the record I let my chidren decide what they will do for themselves, I will give them guidance and information from my own life experience so they don't have to make the same mistakes. You have no business calling into question MY parenting skills or relationships with my children. please see post number 183 to see how I feel about my children doing what you were incapable of doing. You will note it is so far removed from your assesment it is laughable....... IDIOT.....

rppearso
02-05-2008, 10:34 AM
I was just baseing my assesment on your posting style with lots of harrassing sware words, I would hate to be a kid in person in that situation. What if one of your male kids wanted out of the military and hated it just like I did, its easy when they are doing what you expect them to do. People make mistakes and for some reason that is by in large acceptable except with the military which is stupid.

Nukeman
02-05-2008, 10:59 AM
I was just baseing my assesment on your posting style with lots of harrassing sware words, I would hate to be a kid in person in that situation. What if one of your male kids wanted out of the military and hated it just like I did, its easy when they are doing what you expect them to do. People make mistakes and for some reason that is by in large acceptable except with the military which is stupid.YOU make a assumption of my character based on 1 post to you!! You have got to be kidding me. That is some of the most pathetic crap I have heard in a long time. I have at least had the benefit of reading and rereading your post on this particular thread and I feel I have a good grasp on you, however you have NO idea of my parenting skills in the least. I used a couple of cuss words at you and you think you know me!!! Is this how you felt about your DI "oohhh he swore at me he must be a disfunctional parent".

You may not believe or even understand this but a lot of people interact with ADULTS differently than the do with CHILDREN. I am assuming that you would rather be dealt with as a child instead of the adult you claim to be. I can whole heartedly accomodate you if that is what you wish. Do you want me to use small words and itty bity wittle baby talk for you so as not to hurt your wittle feewings.

If your going to bring up adult topics be willing to deal with them as an ADULT. Not everyone (most people) will agree with you

Your type of person is so easy to read. Your self absorbed and never wrong and refuse to think that you may be wrong in some way. You expect the world to bend over backwards for you and you shouldn't have to put with the inequalities of life. in other words you dont like to deal with things in life when they become difficult, if you cant deal with life do us all a favor. Move back home with mommy and daddy and go back to playing peewee soccer where everyone wins and their are no losers because we dont keep score. Heaven forbid you have hurt feelings or we damage your self esteem....

I will say right now, my soon to be, 15 year old is a bigger man than you will amount to and much more dedicated and steadfast in his convictions.

rppearso
02-05-2008, 11:19 PM
YOU make a assumption of my character based on 1 post to you!! You have got to be kidding me. That is some of the most pathetic crap I have heard in a long time. I have at least had the benefit of reading and rereading your post on this particular thread and I feel I have a good grasp on you, however you have NO idea of my parenting skills in the least. I used a couple of cuss words at you and you think you know me!!! Is this how you felt about your DI "oohhh he swore at me he must be a disfunctional parent".

You may not believe or even understand this but a lot of people interact with ADULTS differently than the do with CHILDREN. I am assuming that you would rather be dealt with as a child instead of the adult you claim to be. I can whole heartedly accomodate you if that is what you wish. Do you want me to use small words and itty bity wittle baby talk for you so as not to hurt your wittle feewings.

If your going to bring up adult topics be willing to deal with them as an ADULT. Not everyone (most people) will agree with you

Your type of person is so easy to read. Your self absorbed and never wrong and refuse to think that you may be wrong in some way. You expect the world to bend over backwards for you and you shouldn't have to put with the inequalities of life. in other words you dont like to deal with things in life when they become difficult, if you cant deal with life do us all a favor. Move back home with mommy and daddy and go back to playing peewee soccer where everyone wins and their are no losers because we dont keep score. Heaven forbid you have hurt feelings or we damage your self esteem....

I will say right now, my soon to be, 15 year old is a bigger man than you will amount to and much more dedicated and steadfast in his convictions.

I understand you talk to children different from adults, would you cuss and swear at your boss at work after all he is not a child, its called having some tact. And yes I do believe a good number of drill sgts are either disfunctional parents or wife abusers (mental or physical) or both, not all of them, you can definatly tell the honorable ones doing there jobs from the ones that get off on the power and go out of there way to make your life as miserable as allowable and skirt the edges of the regulations just enough to stay out of trouble when half of that chickenshit (I like that word because thats what it is) would sufice for good training.

Mr. P
02-05-2008, 11:31 PM
Somebody hit this DUMB-ASS with some neg rep for me.. Please.

MtnBiker
02-05-2008, 11:33 PM
I interrupt this thread for the following public service announcement.

http://dictionary.reference.com/

O.K. , carry on.

AFbombloader
02-06-2008, 01:56 AM
I interrupt this thread for the following public service announcement.

http://dictionary.reference.com/

O.K. , carry on.

He thinks spelling and grammer corrections make for boring posts and make us beneath him.

AF:salute:

Psychoblues
02-06-2008, 02:00 AM
FWIW. I think you are mistaken.




Every person who joins the Air Force knows that there may be additional duties added to them. How is it a betrayel when we knowingly stood up, raised our right hand, and swore to protect the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic? I think you are way off base here. We know the Army is strapped for manpower, and we are here to help. For the most part, the people who are doing this volunteer for the duty. The Navy is doing the same thing. There are sailors pulling the same duty. I didn't feel from your statements that you are posting these because you care about us. But I could be mistaken.

AF:salute:

AF:salute:

AFbombloader
02-06-2008, 02:01 AM
FWIW. I think you are mistaken.





AF:salute:

About which part?

Psychoblues
02-06-2008, 02:44 AM
You're an ol' AF trooper/airman.




About which part?

Do a little discerning and critical thinking, and you might figure it out. Didn't your Basic Training teach you some of that? Mine did.

AFbombloader
02-06-2008, 05:43 AM
You're an ol' AF trooper/airman.





Do a little discerning and critical thinking, and you might figure it out. Didn't your Basic Training teach you some of that? Mine did.

I don't have a crystal ball. I can't read your mind. I can only guess which part of a seven line post you don't agree with. And I really don't want to put words into your mouth so please expand upon your statement. If you don't want to, I can live with the fact that you disagree.

AF:salute:

As to the basic training thing, yes I did recieve the training you refer to and I have learned a bit of critical thinking. But it is late here and I worked all day and I am tired. Maybe I will look at this tomorrow while I am drinking my morning coffee.

Nukeman
02-06-2008, 07:31 AM
I understand you talk to children different from adults, would you cuss and swear at your boss at work after all he is not a child, its called having some tact.
Tact is reserved for those that deserve it.. You have not proven to me to be worthy of tact due to the fact that your doing nothing but whinning and saying "poor little me".. Act like a baby get treated like a baby.

.
And yes I do believe a good number of drill sgts are either disfunctional parents or wife abusers (mental or physical) or both, not all of them, you can definatly tell the honorable ones doing there jobs from the ones that get off on the power and go out of there way to make your life as miserable as allowable and skirt the edges of the regulations just enough to stay out of trouble when half of that chickenshit (I like that word because thats what it is) would sufice for good training

Just exactly how many DI's do you personally know in and out of Basic. You make a lot of generalized assumptions based on limitted information. Do you not realize it is the JOB of the DI to make your life a living hell for the time you are there. They have a limitted amount of time to break you down in order to build you back into a SOLDIER. They are charged with getting you ready for COMBAT, you do know what that is dont you... Ever person that falls under their care has the potential to be placed in harms way, if your not following orders you put everyone else in danger. I am sure your other recruites are glad your not beside them any more.. I have a couple of DI's in my immediate family and let me tell you they are some of the meanest guys you would ever want to train under but away from the base they are some of the nicest easy going guys in the world. Once again they are charged with giving you the skills and information to keep you alive in bad situation and you cant get beyond your narrow little world of "its all about me" to realize that is what they are doing...

I dont give out negative rep but in your case I will do it for Mr.P

Nukeman
02-06-2008, 07:32 AM
Somebody hit this DUMB-ASS with some neg rep for me.. Please.
Took care of that for you P.

rppearso
02-06-2008, 01:49 PM
Took care of that for you P.

Thats what little kids do, they chose to not have tact when someone disagrees with them.

Mr. P
02-06-2008, 01:58 PM
Thats what little kids do, they chose to not have tact when someone disagrees with them.

Define Tact for me. As you understand it.

Nukeman
02-06-2008, 02:04 PM
Thats what little kids do, they chose to not have tact when someone disagrees with them.Ahhhh did I hurt your wittle feewings because I helped out a friend who needed to rep you...

I'm not about disagreing with you I just dont like the type of person your portraying yourself to be. Since I don't know for certain that you are who you say you are than I can't say with 100% certainty what type of person you are. That being said the persona you are putting forth on this board is one of a self absorbed, whinny, miliary hating, self centerd, egotistical, punk...etc...etc..

Look I called you names and didn't cuss at you once....... Does that make you feel better????:poke:

Nukeman
02-06-2008, 02:05 PM
Define Tact for me. As you understand it.

For me its not beating the shit out of morons.......:laugh2:

rppearso
02-07-2008, 12:49 PM
Ahhhh did I hurt your wittle feewings because I helped out a friend who needed to rep you...

I'm not about disagreing with you I just dont like the type of person your portraying yourself to be. Since I don't know for certain that you are who you say you are than I can't say with 100% certainty what type of person you are. That being said the persona you are putting forth on this board is one of a self absorbed, whinny, miliary hating, self centerd, egotistical, punk...etc...etc..

Look I called you names and didn't cuss at you once....... Does that make you feel better????:poke:

This is just a forum so you cant really hurt my feelings, I just think its childish to spew out a bunch of cussing. The bottom line is I vehminantly dispise human rights violations and I think its a sham that people make exceptions for the military becasue "its the military and thats different".

Nukeman
02-07-2008, 01:09 PM
This is just a forum so you cant really hurt my feelings, I just think its childish to spew out a bunch of cussing. The bottom line is I vehminantly dispise human rights violations and I think its a sham that people make exceptions for the military becasue "its the military and thats different".No its done in the military because we don't want WEAK people in there, your proof of that. The military is in place to PROTECT the civillians of this great country you cant do that with a buch of pacifist and non conformist.

You really need to get off your "human rights" horse and realize that the goal of your DI is to make you stronger, tougher, more resiliant, and able to follow orders at a moments notice. In other words to make you a soldier in the US armed forces.

You have a problem with authority over you and you didn't have the mental fortitude to stick to a commitment that you made to the US government. You dont change something by quiting you change it by sticking with it and working from the inside, but your too self absorbed to see that.....

rppearso
02-07-2008, 05:42 PM
No its done in the military because we don't want WEAK people in there, your proof of that. The military is in place to PROTECT the civillians of this great country you cant do that with a buch of pacifist and non conformist.

You really need to get off your "human rights" horse and realize that the goal of your DI is to make you stronger, tougher, more resiliant, and able to follow orders at a moments notice. In other words to make you a soldier in the US armed forces.

You have a problem with authority over you and you didn't have the mental fortitude to stick to a commitment that you made to the US government. You dont change something by quiting you change it by sticking with it and working from the inside, but your too self absorbed to see that.....

Your not going to change policy by being in the military, you change policy by being a national elected representitive. I agree with what you say about the military wanting certian types of people, then why do they force people to stay in that should not be there and slack off on there standards on initial recruitment, and because there desperate for bodies is a poor excuse not only that but I would say it is immoral to force WEAK people to continue on in the military through intimidation and abuse that is where I believe human rights violations come into play. The abuse shines the greatest in places like the PTRP. im not an unreasonable whacko, I just vehmenently oppose abuse.

pegwinn
02-07-2008, 08:53 PM
Your not going to change policy by being in the military, you change policy by being a national elected representitive. No Grasshopper. You can both change and make policy both as Enlisted and Officer. The only difference is the area of influence. This is an example of Ghin Tzu, the cutting apart of the weak argument.

I agree with what you say about the military wanting certian types of people, then why do they force people to stay in that should not be there and slack off on there standards on initial recruitment, Of course they want a certain type of person, and it is only logical to try to get a return on your investment. You seem to project the attitude that it is a conspiracy. It is simple numbers. Bodies in, attrition rate, bodies out. Lowered standards are par for the course in wartime in order to admit more people. What really sux is the fine young Americans who would love to serve and cannot due to physical ailments, etc.

and because there desperate for bodies is a poor excuse not only that but I would say it is immoral to force WEAK people to continue on in the military through intimidation and abuse that is where I believe human rights violations come into play. You have yet to demonstrate that any human rights violations have occurred. Batter Up.

The abuse shines the greatest in places like the PTRP. im not an unreasonable whacko, I just vehmenently oppose abuse.

Abuse or Human Rights Violations? Are you certain of your terms? Do you know how to prove your assertions? Come on Dude. You complain that no one does anything but flame you. I have consistently held your hand and tried to discuss things but even a master of Ghin Tzu has limits.

Psychoblues
02-08-2008, 12:21 AM
Have you ever imagined the powers of the masters in the art of Karazey?



Abuse or Human Rights Violations? Are you certain of your terms? Do you know how to prove your assertions? Come on Dude. You complain that no one does anything but flame you. I have consistently held your hand and tried to discuss things but even a master of Ghin Tzu has limits.

Probably both, but lets not sweat the small stuff. "Abuse OR Human Rights violations? Indeed?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Black Lance
02-08-2008, 09:32 PM
Your not going to change policy by being in the military, you change policy by being a national elected representitive.

Not really true. While you certainly won't be "making policy" at any rank below Sergeant, officers and the upper enlisted ranks have a tremendous influence on military policy.



I agree with what you say about the military wanting certian types of people, then why do they force people to stay in that should not be there

Because they are giving you time to adopt, to "get past yourself" and become "the right kind of person". You don't seem to understand that good soldiers/sailors/airmen/marines don't simply walk into the recruiters office as such, they are made into succesful members of the military by a pschologically difficult training process that prepares them for military life.

In some ways however I agree with your overall point. Four members of my basic training flight were removed from BMT due to suicide watch, an option they chose because it was the only way for them to get out. I understand why the military needed to weed those four out - they were weak and would have been a liability in a deployment zone- but I hate to think about how they are being punished for volunteering to do more than they could handle for their country with a bad discharge that will follow them for the rest of their lives.

The solution: no matter what happens, you remember that you signed the contract, and you keep trying as best you can. And no matter what happens, you don't quit. Most people who take that attitude to the military seem to do well in the end.

AFbombloader
02-08-2008, 09:44 PM
In some ways however I agree with your overall point. Four members of my basic training flight were removed from BMT due to suicide watch, an option they chose because it was the only way for them to get out. I understand why the military needed to weed those four out - they were weak and would have been a liability in a deployment zone- but I hate to think about how they are being punished for volunteering to do more than they could handle for their country with a bad discharge that will follow them for the rest of their lives.



In the majority of cases where people are removed from BMT without completing it there is no BCD because they never finished training. It will show that they were removed for failure to adjust and if there was a mental issue they will be removed for that. There should be no negative lifelong stigma attached to their not being right for service.
When I was a recruiter I had a few people come home from BMT and I felt the same way you did about your friends. But you are correct, some people are not the right fit for what we need in Airman, Soldiers, Marines or Sailor and that is why BMT is the way it is.

AF :salute:

pegwinn
02-08-2008, 11:08 PM
Have you ever imagined the powers of the masters in the art of Karazey?

Probably both, but lets not sweat the small stuff. "Abuse OR Human Rights violations? Indeed?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Karazey is not true kung fu. It is a false art by the inferior master Lhuna Tik. And, Grasshopper is the one who made the assertions. His terms, his to defend.


- but I hate to think about how they are being punished for volunteering to do more than they could handle for their country with a bad discharge that will follow them for the rest of their lives.

Let not your heart be troubled. Likely they got a General Discharge with the appropriate RE and Sep CODE to explain it medically. It's not the type of discharge that stalks someone. And, since the percentage of employers as vets is diminishing, most cannot decode the codes on a DD214. Hope this helps.

Black Lance
02-08-2008, 11:30 PM
Thanks guys, I'm glad to hear that.

rppearso
02-09-2008, 06:10 PM
I would tend to agree with the last few posts after my last post. Also I would like to reitterate, had I not been released I would still be there muddling my way though but it would not have been in the best interests of anyone which is why I feel I was released. That being said, I saw some things in the military that struck to the core of my morals and values and what blows me away more is how some attempt to justify such action as "making you tough". I have not been able to find any links between human rights violations and military training, regardless you wont find me putting myself in such a negitive enviornment like that again, it is very hard to imagin that the PTRP is not linked to human rights violations especially the duration that some must be kept in such a negitive enviornment can equate to a prison sentence instead of doing the right thing and discharging them so they can go home to there wife, family etc and heal properly being exposed to stress does not promote recovery.

Psychoblues
02-20-2008, 02:38 AM
Oh, how you misunderstand, 'lil one. Karazey is a genuine art perfected long before the astronomers as Lhuna Tik would have you believe.



Karazey is not true kung fu. It is a false art by the inferior master Lhuna Tik. And, Grasshopper is the one who made the assertions. His terms, his to defend.



Let not your heart be troubled. Likely they got a General Discharge with the appropriate RE and Sep CODE to explain it medically. It's not the type of discharge that stalks someone. And, since the percentage of employers as vets is diminishing, most cannot decode the codes on a DD214. Hope this helps.

Who is Grasshopper? What defense are you demanding? Your assertions of RE, Sep Code and DD 214's are lost on most. The art and magic of Karazey exists if only in your mind. What is your excuse?

rppearso
03-04-2008, 09:00 PM
After all of this back and forth on this topic, I dont know why it is so disagreeable that I would not recommend joining the military to anyone. I will agree with pegwinn after all the back and forth that the military is allowed to do what it does but why would I recommend that lifestyle to anyone, sure you can join and get through it but why when you can have a much better quality of life doing alot of other things and I would use my mistake to help others make a better informed decision. I dont think anything is wrong with that. Some people are hard a$$ people who can drink blood from a skull after chewing your ear off and if they want to join the military more power to them but I see alot of people on other forums I go to that are just like me and want to do lots of usefull fun things that the military sensationalizes (fighter pilot, intell in a room that controls satalites etc) but dont tell you about the stuff that I know this individual will hate but can see the snares through the sensationalazation of a few cool positions in the military.

Mr. P
03-04-2008, 10:38 PM
After all of this back and forth on this topic, I dont know why it is so disagreeable that I would not recommend joining the military to anyone. I will agree with pegwinn after all the back and forth that the military is allowed to do what it does but why would I recommend that lifestyle to anyone, sure you can join and get through it but why when you can have a much better quality of life doing alot of other things and I would use my mistake to help others make a better informed decision. I dont think anything is wrong with that. Some people are hard a$$ people who can drink blood from a skull after chewing your ear off and if they want to join the military more power to them but I see alot of people on other forums I go to that are just like me and want to do lots of usefull fun things that the military sensationalizes (fighter pilot, intell in a room that controls satalites etc) but dont tell you about the stuff that I know this individual will hate but can see the snares through the sensationalazation of a few cool positions in the military.
I'll tell you why. You present your opinion as though you have served 6 yrs and know what you're talking about, when in fact you never even completed training, and you were guard at that. How much time did you really serve 60 days maybe? You have no basis to make the broad brush accusations or opinions that you do about the military as a whole. Those of us that "have been there" know you're full of shit, others may not, including you. I'd rather you didn't recommend it either. Just tuck yer tail and walk away, that would be the best thing for all.

That's what I find disagreeable.

pegwinn
03-04-2008, 11:55 PM
Oh, how you misunderstand, 'lil one. Karazey is a genuine art perfected long before the astronomers as Lhuna Tik would have you believe.

No. Karazey people can only follow Lhuna Tik. The true, cutting edge kung fu is Ghin Tzu.

Who is Grasshopper? What defense are you demanding? Grasshopper is RP, he was a student who failed and cannot ever become a Ghin Tzu master. He walks on ricepaper and leaves holes. He has made assertions that he cannot back up.

Your assertions of RE, Sep Code and DD 214's are lost on most. Exactly the point I made IRT Employers. The art and magic of Karazey exists if only in your mind. What is your excuse?

I need no excuse. I am the Ghin Tzu master. I can cut thru any argument, even briks, and never need resharpening.

AFbombloader
03-05-2008, 02:30 AM
After all of this back and forth on this topic, I dont know why it is so disagreeable that I would not recommend joining the military to anyone.

You are no more qualified to tell someone not to join the military than I am to tell them not to become an engineer and go work in the oil fields. Neither one of us has the expertese in the others career field. So we shouldn't try and convince them either way.

I will agree with pegwinn after all the back and forth that the military is allowed to do what it does but why would I recommend that lifestyle to anyone, sure you can join and get through it but why when you can have a much better quality of life doing alot of other things and I would use my mistake to help others make a better informed decision.

So your quality of life is better than mine? I own my home (on a golf course). I own my 2 vehicles. I have never paid for any medical treatment for myself or any of my family. I do not have any bills. I have life insurance that is far more affordable than most can afford. I will have a check every month for the rest of my life in less than a year. I have not had to pay for any of my college classes. I have travelled all over the world and lived in foreign countries. Sounds pretty bad....yup. You know nothing of the lifestyle you refer to, so again, it is better to not say anything.


I dont think anything is wrong with that. Some people are hard a$$ people who can drink blood from a skull after chewing your ear off and if they want to join the military more power to them but I see alot of people on other forums I go to that are just like me and want to do lots of usefull fun things that the military sensationalizes (fighter pilot, intell in a room that controls satalites etc) but dont tell you about the stuff that I know this individual will hate but can see the snares through the sensationalazation of a few cool positions in the military.

If you wanted a cool job, like being a fighter pilot or working with satelites why did you join the Army National Guard? Was it because you were not qualified to work in the services that actually do the jobs you were interested in (like the Air Force)? There has to be something that sent you there. And if a young person does their homework, either by talking to a recruiter, going online and chatting with people who are/have served, or talking to friends/family that have served, they will be prepared and armed with the information they need.

Personally, I do not listen to people who tell me not to do anything. I make up my own mind. Also, I would never tell anyone not to join the military,go to college, go to trade school, get an apprenticeship, etc. Who says my experience will equate to them? Try telling them to research everything and make the best decision for them.

rppearso
03-05-2008, 12:17 PM
Personally, I do not listen to people who tell me not to do anything. I make up my own mind. Also, I would never tell anyone not to join the military,go to college, go to trade school, get an apprenticeship, etc. Who says my experience will equate to them? Try telling them to research everything and make the best decision for them.

I just give them the hard facts and take away the sensationalization, if someone wants to be a fighter pilot I lay out exactly what it takes to get there. What I will do is get my PE license and a masters in physics and look for things on the civilian side of the cool things the military does (like lockheed martin or one of the national labs, I think it would be alot of fun to work on thoes types of projects and not be directly subjected to military policy)

Mr. P
03-05-2008, 12:25 PM
I just give them the hard facts and take away the sensationalization, if someone wants to be a fighter pilot I lay out exactly what it takes to get there. What I will do is get my PE license and a masters in physics and look for things on the civilian side of the cool things the military does (like lockheed martin or one of the national labs, I think it would be alot of fun to work on thoes types of projects and not be directly subjected to military policy)

Which would be...what?

TheStripey1
03-05-2008, 02:57 PM
NON-CONFRONTATIONAL question here. If you have older kids, did you encourage them to pursue military careers? If you have younger kids, will you encourage them?

I ask this partially because of some of the current topics in this forum, and partially because the high school where the 16-year-old girl my sister has guardianship over had an assembly on Monday where military careers were discussed.
She declined to talk to any of the recruiters because she wants to pursue a career in architectural design. And has already been offered a full college scholarship.

I am not going to encourage my daughter to do so either. I have nothing against those who volunteer to help defend our country. I would rather have my daughter pursue an education and then be part of the work force that helps run our country.

Your mileage may vary. :)

I encourage ALL right wingers that support bush's war on Iraq to get their children to enlist. Yes. Absolutely.

My children? Or the children of my friends? No... Got exploded Depleted Uranium Munitions residue? There's quite a bit of it over there and it makes Agent Orange seem like kool aid.

So let those that support the war bear the brunt of the sorrow accompanying it... but I won't be holding my breath waiting for that to happen... seems most right wingers only TALK about patriotism, they don't actually WALK it. Their take on patriotism is typing in forums like this one and many others and sporting magnetic support the troops ribbons on their SUVs.

And obtw, I volunteered for the war of my youth. And my dear sweet Uncle sent me... The children I helped raise, also volunteered for the wars of their youth... fortunately their Uncle did not send them.

Monkeybone
03-05-2008, 03:04 PM
I just give them the hard facts and take away the sensationalization, if someone wants to be a fighter pilot I lay out exactly what it takes to get there. What I will do is get my PE license and a masters in physics and look for things on the civilian side of the cool things the military does (like lockheed martin or one of the national labs, I think it would be alot of fun to work on thoes types of projects and not be directly subjected to military policy)

good for you! i mean since you were one for so long and have all that experience in them....oh...wait.....n/m

AFbombloader
03-05-2008, 03:57 PM
I just give them the hard facts and take away the sensationalization, if someone wants to be a fighter pilot I lay out exactly what it takes to get there. What I will do is get my PE license and a masters in physics and look for things on the civilian side of the cool things the military does (like lockheed martin or one of the national labs, I think it would be alot of fun to work on thoes types of projects and not be directly subjected to military policy)

Just how do you know what it takes to become ANYTHING in the military? You didn't make it so obviously what you know isn't what they should do. As to getting into any of the military contractors...good luck. With your attitude toward the military you will not be able to hide your distain and they will see it. Working with "us" is their job, they do it on a daily basis. You couldn't do it, could you? Could you have some lowly Senior Master Sergent working on the program tell you what needed to be done? He is "only enlisted" by the way. And yes, there are enlisted who work with the contractors, my friend is one of them.

rppearso
03-05-2008, 04:48 PM
Just how do you know what it takes to become ANYTHING in the military? You didn't make it so obviously what you know isn't what they should do. As to getting into any of the military contractors...good luck. With your attitude toward the military you will not be able to hide your distain and they will see it. Working with "us" is their job, they do it on a daily basis. You couldn't do it, could you? Could you have some lowly Senior Master Sergent working on the program tell you what needed to be done? He is "only enlisted" by the way. And yes, there are enlisted who work with the contractors, my friend is one of them.

I actually applied to the AFA and was denyed due to SAT verbal section scores (math scores were almost maxed out but you could not offset one section with another you had to have a 600 in each section not a 520 in one and 720 in another) I then went to the colorado school of mines in chemical engineering and toured the AFA and realized I would have washed out before the academic year even started, I joined AFROTC for 2 years and got out before I had to commit because they would not gaurentee a pilot slot, I then graduated and got my pilots licence and talked to an AF officer recruiter and was offered a navigator slot but I wanted a pilot slot so I turned it down and then the touche I agreed with you on that was a mistake was joining the national guard I probably would have been better off joining the air guard and waiting for a pilot slot to open while I worked my normal job but then there is still that pesky issue of going to iraq. So I know exactly what it takes and I have the experence I even went up in a T-38. I know for myself that its easier to just buy myself an extra 300 and fly on my own but I know exactly what it takes to get the cool jobs in the AF, I also dont forget to mention OTS and SEAR school which is a whole bunch of hell that they dont tell you about, when I go fly my extra 300 I dont have to get hazed for months and months I just get to go have fun.

As far as working with the military on gov contracts I would have no problem with it, I would act like a civilian and use absolutly no customs or courtisies (hey whats up, how is it going, etc) while still being polite and professional and I would expect to be treated as a high level gov scientist/engineer and all will be well, I work with military people now (in civilian clothes) and I dont have a problem with it, I do my job and I do it very very well, I take technical direction from who ever the client is as long as it does not present unacceptable technical safety issues, as soon as an issue becomes political (or anything that causes even slightly elevated tempers that is not purely technical in nature) I will immediatly disengage and tell them to talk to the project manager, the project manager can deal with the screaming matchs and I will work what ever the technical issues are due to the fall out of the screaming match, if I feel I am being harressed excessivly I will engage the program manager or if it got bad enough go to some other governing agency that deals with work place violence and harrassement (OSHA etc). There are NCO's who are very smart people and do there job like there suppost to, most of thoes NCO's are not troop handlers or drill sgts thoes are the schmucks and you can usually tell thoes people if they are cross trained into a professional carrer field (ie dealing with civilian contractors, etc) unless they are very good at putting all that crap behind them and just doing there job (ie bitting there toung permenantly when dealing with someone like myself, because as a civilian scientist im not going to sensationalize your rank in the same way other military people do, im going to address you just the same if your a E-6 or an O-10 im also not gonig to participate in the melo drama that surrounds an O-10 entering a room because I could care less, if he does not have something profoundly technical to present he is just someone else I have to navigate around to get my coffee in the morning). If they dont like it I will just stay in oil and gas and continue to make stupid amounts of money but that does not change my love for physics and engineering which I will get my masters or PhD over time while I work regardless if even just for the fun of it.

I really am an easy person to get along with I have many friends that are ex or active military, I just dont tolerate justification for poor behavior whether its allowed or not.

Kathianne
03-05-2008, 06:09 PM
Just how do you know what it takes to become ANYTHING in the military? You didn't make it so obviously what you know isn't what they should do. As to getting into any of the military contractors...good luck. With your attitude toward the military you will not be able to hide your distain and they will see it. Working with "us" is their job, they do it on a daily basis. You couldn't do it, could you? Could you have some lowly Senior Master Sergent working on the program tell you what needed to be done? He is "only enlisted" by the way. And yes, there are enlisted who work with the contractors, my friend is one of them.

I agree. Which makes all those that serve today even more extraordinary, they hear from the like of this fuktard, Code Pink, etc. Still they come, still they sacrifice, still we honor them. :salute:

DragonStryk72
03-05-2008, 06:27 PM
Hm, to be hones, I would encourage, if it's what they really want to do, and are willing to put in the work to get there. I don't wanna be shoving it at them though, the worst thing a person can do is get into the military for the wrong reasons.

If you go in for the right reasons, and with the right attitude, it's a calling. With the wrong reasons, and wrong attitude, it's a prison term. Not to be slapping him, but RP is a classic example of this, he obviously had no business going military, and did anyhow.

Mr. P
03-05-2008, 06:37 PM
Hm, to be hones, I would encourage, if it's what they really want to do, and are willing to put in the work to get there. I don't wanna be shoving it at them though, the worst thing a person can do is get into the military for the wrong reasons.

If you go in for the right reasons, and with the right attitude, it's a calling. With the wrong reasons, and wrong attitude, it's a prison term. Not to be slapping him, but RP is a classic example of this, he obviously had no business going military, and did anyhow.

With his attitude he has no business working with them either. He won't last a month.

rppearso
03-05-2008, 07:12 PM
With his attitude he has no business working with them either. He won't last a month.

Military are just the end users of things built by people way smarter than them. As a contractor to the military I only have to be able to work with military people on a superficial level to get a design basis to do my job, all this other crap that people on this form generate regarding my ability to adapt to military life somehow effects my technical ability is just that crap. Some on here lagitimatly debate and others have just enough brain power to open there web browser and type a flame message towards someone that did not like laying in a fox hole so therefore there failures in life, give me a break how is that even remotly credible.

Mr. P
03-05-2008, 07:48 PM
As far as working with the military on gov contracts I would have no problem with it, I would act like a civilian and use absolutly no customs or courtisies (hey whats up, how is it going, etc) while still being polite and professional and I would expect to be treated as a high level gov scientist/engineer and all will be well, I work with military people now (in civilian clothes) and I dont have a problem with it, I do my job and I do it very very well, I take technical direction from who ever the client is as long as it does not present unacceptable technical safety issues, as soon as an issue becomes political (or anything that causes even slightly elevated tempers that is not purely technical in nature) I will immediatly disengage and tell them to talk to the project manager, the project manager can deal with the screaming matchs and I will work what ever the technical issues are due to the fall out of the screaming match, if I feel I am being harressed excessivly I will engage the program manager or if it got bad enough go to some other governing agency that deals with work place violence and harrassement (OSHA etc). There are NCO's who are very smart people and do there job like there suppost to, most of thoes NCO's are not troop handlers or drill sgts thoes are the schmucks and you can usually tell thoes people if they are cross trained into a professional carrer field (ie dealing with civilian contractors, etc) unless they are very good at putting all that crap behind them and just doing there job (ie bitting there toung permenantly when dealing with someone like myself, because as a civilian scientist im not going to sensationalize your rank in the same way other military people do, im going to address you just the same if your a E-6 or an O-10 im also not gonig to participate in the melo drama that surrounds an O-10 entering a room because I could care less, if he does not have something profoundly technical to present he is just someone else I have to navigate around to get my coffee in the morning). If they dont like it I will just stay in oil and gas and continue to make stupid amounts of money but that does not change my love for physics and engineering which I will get my masters or PhD over time while I work regardless if even just for the fun of it.

I really am an easy person to get along with I have many friends that are ex or active military, I just dont tolerate justification for poor behavior whether its allowed or not.


Military are just the end users of things built by people way smarter than them. As a contractor to the military I only have to be able to work with military people on a superficial level to get a design basis to do my job, all this other crap that people on this form generate regarding my ability to adapt to military life somehow effects my technical ability is just that crap. Some on here lagitimatly debate and others have just enough brain power to open there web browser and type a flame message towards someone that did not like laying in a fox hole so therefore there failures in life, give me a break how is that even remotly credible.

You won't last a month, IDIOT.

pegwinn
03-05-2008, 07:50 PM
I encourage ALL right wingers that support bush's war on Iraq to get their children to enlist. Yes. Absolutely.

My children? Or the children of my friends? No... Got exploded Depleted Uranium Munitions residue? There's quite a bit of it over there and it makes Agent Orange seem like kool aid.

So let those that support the war bear the brunt of the sorrow accompanying it... but I won't be holding my breath waiting for that to happen... seems most right wingers only TALK about patriotism, they don't actually WALK it. Their take on patriotism is typing in forums like this one and many others and sporting magnetic support the troops ribbons on their SUVs.

And obtw, I volunteered for the war of my youth. And my dear sweet Uncle sent me... The children I helped raise, also volunteered for the wars of their youth... fortunately their Uncle did not send them.

Been there, done that, on all points.

Kathianne
03-05-2008, 07:52 PM
Military are just the end users of things built by people way smarter than them. As a contractor to the military I only have to be able to work with military people on a superficial level to get a design basis to do my job, all this other crap that people on this form generate regarding my ability to adapt to military life somehow effects my technical ability is just that crap. Some on here lagitimatly debate and others have just enough brain power to open there web browser and type a flame message towards someone that did not like laying in a fox hole so therefore there failures in life, give me a break how is that even remotly credible.

So your excuse was the you were 'too smart' to cut it? :laugh2:

Monkeybone
03-05-2008, 07:53 PM
Military are just the end users of things built by people way smarter than them. As a contractor to the military I only have to be able to work with military people on a superficial level to get a design basis to do my job, all this other crap that people on this form generate regarding my ability to adapt to military life somehow effects my technical ability is just that crap. Some on here lagitimatly debate and others have just enough brain power to open there web browser and type a flame message towards someone that did not like laying in a fox hole so therefore there failures in life, give me a break how is that even remotly credible.

so all military ppl are stupid becasue you didn't like doing part of your job? you would be so singing another tune if you were in right now that it is sad. let it go dude. don't know how many times nearly everyone can say that. you wanna debate? awesome. go to a thread beside a military one and show us those awesome brains that you claim to have.

start building a good rep for yourself, or better yet, start a new profile with a dif name and see how long it takes us to guess it is you! a fun game for all!

TheStripey1
03-05-2008, 08:06 PM
so all military ppl are stupid becasue you didn't like doing part of your job? you would be so singing another tune if you were in right now that it is sad. let it go dude. don't know how many times nearly everyone can say that. you wanna debate? awesome. go to a thread beside a military one and show us those awesome brains that you claim to have.

start building a good rep for yourself, or better yet, start a new profile with a dif name and see how long it takes us to guess it is you! a fun game for all!

after this comment, :lol: I had to go back and see what kind of rep rrpearso has... omg... is that the worst ever or what? His is even worse than loose cannon's was...

:eek:

Mr. P
03-05-2008, 08:26 PM
so all military ppl are stupid becasue you didn't like doing part of your job? you would be so singing another tune if you were in right now that it is sad. let it go dude. don't know how many times nearly everyone can say that. you wanna debate? awesome. go to a thread beside a military one and show us those awesome brains that you claim to have.

start building a good rep for yourself, or better yet, start a new profile with a dif name and see how long it takes us to guess it is you! a fun game for all!

Excellent idea, MB!

pegwinn
03-05-2008, 08:45 PM
Military are just the end users of things built by people way smarter than them. As a contractor to the military I only have to be able to work with military people on a superficial level to get a design basis to do my job, all this other crap that people on this form generate regarding my ability to adapt to military life somehow effects my technical ability is just that crap. Some on here lagitimatly debate and others have just enough brain power to open there web browser and type a flame message towards someone that did not like laying in a fox hole so therefore there failures in life, give me a break how is that even remotly credible.

All right, we're done. Go here. (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=212524#post212524)

Nukeman
03-06-2008, 06:52 AM
Military are just the end users of things built by people way smarter than them. As a contractor to the military I only have to be able to work with military people on a superficial level to get a design basis to do my job, all this other crap that people on this form generate regarding my ability to adapt to military life somehow effects my technical ability is just that crap. Some on here lagitimatly debate and others have just enough brain power to open there web browser and type a flame message towards someone that did not like laying in a fox hole so therefore there failures in life, give me a break how is that even remotly credible.By this I am assuming you are also taking into consideration spelling and grammer. For someone who is soooooo smart you have a very difficult time constructing a simple sentence and your spelling........n/m..... Your just too smart for us.....

To work as a contractor you would still HAVE TO BE ABLE to communicate not only verbaly but in written form as well. I think we all see how far you could go with that.

As for you wanting to "debate" that is utter BS you only want to whine and say poor little me.....look at me...... give me repect...... dont pick on me..... your mean...... Yet you refuse to look in the mirror and see that you are projecting this exact same attitude on EVERY military person who is either serving or has served. That makes you a self centerd, worthless piece of shit......... IMHO.....

AFbombloader
03-06-2008, 06:55 AM
By this I am assuming you are also taking into consideration spelling and grammer. For someone who is soooooo smart you have a very difficult time constructing a simple sentence and your spelling........n/m..... Your just too smart for us.....

To work as a contractor you would still HAVE TO BE ABLE to communicate not only verbaly but in written form as well. I think we all see how far you could go with that.

As for you wanting to "debate" that is utter BS you only want to whine and say poor little me.....look at me...... give me repect...... dont pick on me..... your mean...... Yet you refuse to look in the mirror and see that you are projecting this exact same attitude on EVERY military person who is either serving or has served. That makes you a self centerd, worthless piece of shit......... IMHO.....



"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Nukeman again."

AFbombloader
03-06-2008, 04:08 PM
All right, we're done. Go here. (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=212524#post212524)

Tag....your it!

rppearso
03-06-2008, 07:22 PM
We should probably retitle this thread as "you better encourage your kid to join unless you have a damn good reason", I think that would be more fitting since its not enough that someone be in the military but they had to have extensive experence in order to be qualified to encourage there kids one way or the other. So for the civilian parent that does not want there kid in the military be prepared to get flamed.

manu1959
03-06-2008, 07:39 PM
We should probably retitle this thread as "you better encourage your kid to join unless you have a damn good reason", I think that would be more fitting since its not enough that someone be in the military but they had to have extensive experence in order to be qualified to encourage there kids one way or the other. So for the civilian parent that does not want there kid in the military be prepared to get flamed.

aren't you flaming people that think different than you....

rppearso
03-06-2008, 08:25 PM
aren't you flaming people that think different than you....

All I said is I would not recommend anyone join and stated my reasons why and I have some military experence on top of that (no I dont have 20 yrs in and I was not a POW for 10 yrs serving in 3 different combat zones) but I feel I have enough experence to recommend to someone not to join. It turned into a flame war because God forbid anyone oppose joining the military, then why even start the OP if you are not prepared for a range of answers.