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		<title><![CDATA[Debate Policy - Political Forum for Debates & Discussion - US Military]]></title>
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		<description>Discuss military issues, Honor our soldiers</description>
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			<title><![CDATA[Debate Policy - Political Forum for Debates & Discussion - US Military]]></title>
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			<title>Pentagon Unilaterally Grants Itself Authority Over ‘Civil Disturbances’</title>
			<link>http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?40864-Pentagon-Unilaterally-Grants-Itself-Authority-Over-‘Civil-Disturbances’&amp;goto=newpost</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 17 May 2013 22:34:43 GMT</pubDate>
			<description>---Quote--- 
The manhunt for the Boston Marathon  bombing suspects offered the nation a window into the stunning  military-style capabilities of our...</description>
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			The manhunt for the Boston Marathon  bombing suspects offered the nation a window into the stunning  military-style capabilities of our local law enforcement agencies. For  the past 30 years, police departments throughout the United States have  benefitted from the government’s largesse in the form of military  weaponry and training, <a href="http://www.hangthejury.com/" target="_blank">incentives offered in the ongoing “War on Drugs.”</a>  For the average citizen watching events such as the intense pursuit of  the Tsarnaev brothers on television, it would be difficult to discern  between fully outfitted police SWAT teams and the military.<br />
 The lines blurred even further Monday as a new dynamic was introduced  to the militarization of domestic law enforcement. By making a few  subtle changes to a regulation in the U.S. Code titled <a href="http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/10C18.txt" target="_blank">“Defense Support of Civilian Law Enforcement Agencies”</a>  the military has quietly granted itself the ability to police the  streets without obtaining prior local or state consent, upending a  precedent that has been in place for more than two centuries.<br />
 <a href="http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2013-04-12/html/2013-07802.htm" target="_blank"><b>Click here to read the new rule</b></a><br />
 The most objectionable aspect of the regulatory change is the  inclusion of vague language that permits military intervention in the  event of “civil disturbances.” According to the rule:<br />
 <div style="margin-left:40px"><font color="#800000"><b>Federal military commanders have the authority, in  extraordinary emergency circumstances where prior authorization by the  President is impossible and duly constituted local authorities are  unable to control the situation, to engage temporarily in activities  that are necessary to quell large-scale, unexpected civil disturbances.</b></font><br />
</div>Bruce Afran, a civil liberties attorney and constitutional law  professor at Rutgers University, calls the rule, “a wanton power grab by  the military,” and says, “It’s quite shocking actually because it  violates the long-standing presumption that the military is under  civilian control.”<br />
 A defense official who declined to be named takes a different view of  the rule, claiming, “The authorization has been around over 100 years;  it’s not a new authority. It’s been there but it hasn’t been exercised.  This is a carryover of domestic policy.” Moreover, he insists the  Pentagon doesn’t “want to get involved in civilian law enforcement. It’s  one of those red lines that the military hasn’t signed up for.”  Nevertheless, he says, “every person in the military swears an oath of  allegiance to the Constitution of the United States to defend that  Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic.”<br />
 One of the more disturbing aspects of the new procedures that govern  military command on the ground in the event of a civil disturbance  relates to authority. Not only does it fail to define what circumstances  would be so severe that the president’s authorization is “impossible,”  it grants full presidential authority to “Federal military commanders.”  According to the defense official, a commander is defined as follows:  “Somebody who’s in the position of command, has the title commander. And  most of the time they are centrally selected by a board, they’ve gone  through additional schooling to exercise command authority.”<br />
 As it is written, this “commander” has the same power to authorize  military force as the president in the event the president is somehow  unable to access a telephone. (The rule doesn’t address the statutory  chain of authority that already exists in the event a sitting president  is unavailable.) In doing so, this commander must exercise judgment in  determining what constitutes, “wanton destruction of property,”  “adequate protection for Federal property,” “domestic violence,” or  “conspiracy that hinders the execution of State or Federal law,” as  these are the circumstances that might be considered an “emergency.”<br />
 “These phrases don’t have any legal meaning,” says Afran. “It’s no  different than the emergency powers clause in the Weimar constitution  [of the German Reich]. It’s a grant of emergency power to the military  to rule over parts of the country at their own discretion.”<br />
 Afran also expresses apprehension over the government’s authority “to  engage temporarily in activities necessary to quell large-scale  disturbances.”...<br />
more at<br />
<a href="http://www.longislandpress.com/2013/05/14/u-s-military-power-grab-goes-into-effect/" target="_blank">http://www.longislandpress.com/2013/...s-into-effect/</a><br />
			
		<hr />
	</div>
</div>I'm sure many here will think that there nothing wrong with this. <br />
That we can trust the military. <i>"why are you a conspiracy theorist rev blah blah."</i><br />
look whatever, i'm not debating it any more.<br />
<br />
just one question.<br />
<br />
if this is nothing new and the same old same old. why did they make the new rule up? OUT OF NOTHING BTW?<br />
I know many of you think the erosion of posse comitatus to date has been fine and wonderful. Done with 5 different moves by the feds and now the pentagon in the pass 15 years. no worries.<br />
Makes you feel good to see the military knocking on doors in Boston <br />
and New Orleans where they took peoples guns... for their safety.<br />
<br />
OK, whatever, I'm sure some of you will enjoy all the law and order the military will bring. As long as a republican is in the white house it will mean it's <i>necessary</i>.</div>

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			<category domain="http://www.debatepolicy.com/forumdisplay.php?8-US-Military">US Military</category>
			<dc:creator>revelarts</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?40864-Pentagon-Unilaterally-Grants-Itself-Authority-Over-‘Civil-Disturbances’</guid>
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			<title>Obama and his umbrella holding Marines</title>
			<link>http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?40844-Obama-and-his-umbrella-holding-Marines&amp;goto=newpost</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 16 May 2013 22:02:11 GMT</pubDate>
			<description><![CDATA[http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/16/obama-breaches-marine-umbrella-protocol/ 
 
So Obama is giving an outdoor press conference with Turkey's PM. It...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><a href="http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/16/obama-breaches-marine-umbrella-protocol/" target="_blank">http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/16/ob...ella-protocol/</a><br />
<br />
So Obama is giving an outdoor press conference with Turkey's PM. It starts to rain and he calls over a couple of marines to hold umbrellas over them to shield them from the rain.<br />
It all made for some funny pictures but the linked article states that what Obama did was in violation of Marine Corps regulations. It seems like nitpicking but I became curious as to why male Marines are specifically not allowed to carry an umbrella while female marines can.<br />
<br />
Any former Marines have an answer?</div>

]]></content:encoded>
			<category domain="http://www.debatepolicy.com/forumdisplay.php?8-US-Military">US Military</category>
			<dc:creator>Thunderknuckles</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?40844-Obama-and-his-umbrella-holding-Marines</guid>
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			<title>Information few will learn from Washington about Vietnam</title>
			<link>http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?40787-Information-few-will-learn-from-Washington-about-Vietnam&amp;goto=newpost</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 14 May 2013 22:52:08 GMT</pubDate>
			<description>Viet Nam wall 
The Wall Statistics 
 
 
A little history most people will never know. 
Interesting 
Veterans Statistics off the Vietnam Memorial Wall...</description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">Viet Nam wall</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">The Wall Statistics</span></font><br />
<br />
<br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">A little history most people will never know.</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">Interesting</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">Veterans Statistics off the Vietnam Memorial Wall</span></font><br />
<br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">There are 58,267 names now listed on that polished black wall, including</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">those added in 2010.</span></font><br />
<br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">The names are arranged in the order in</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">which they were taken from us by date and within each date the names are</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">alphabetized. It is hard to believe it is 36 years since the last</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">casualties.</span></font><br />
<br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">The first known casualty was Richard B. Fitzgibbon, of North Weymouth  ,</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">Mass. Listed by the U.S.  </span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">Department of Defense as having been killed on June 8, 1956. His name is</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">listed on the Wall with that of his son, Marine Corps Lance Cpl. Richard</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">B. Fitzgibbon III, who was killed on Sept. 7, 1965.</span></font><br />
<br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">There are three sets of fathers and sons on the Wall.</span></font><br />
<br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">39,996 on the Wall were just 22 or younger.</span></font><br />
<br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">8,283 were</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">just 19 years old.</span></font><br />
<br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">The</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">largest age group, 33,103 were 18 years old.</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">12</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">soldiers on the Wall were 17 years old.</span></font><br />
<br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">5 soldiers on the Wall were 16</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">years old.</span></font><br />
<br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">One soldier, PFC Dan Bullock</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">was 15 years old.</span></font><br />
<br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">997 soldiers were killed on their first day in  Vietnam  ..</span></font><br />
<br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">1,448 soldiers were killed on their</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">last day in  Vietnam  ..</span></font><br />
<br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">31 sets of</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">brothers are on the Wall.</span></font><br />
<br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">Thirty one sets of parents lost two of their sons.</span></font><br />
<br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">54 soldiers attended  Thomas  Edison  High School in  Philadelphia  .</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">I wonder why so many from one </span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">school.</span></font><br />
<br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">8 Women are on the Wall. Nursing the wounded.</span></font><br />
<br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">244</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">soldiers were awarded the Medal of Honor during the Vietnam War; 153 of</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">them are on the Wall.</span></font><br />
<br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">Beallsville , Ohio with a population</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">of 475 lost 6 of her sons.</span></font><br />
<br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">West Virginia had the highest casualty rate per capita in the nation.</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">There are 711 West Virginians  on the Wall.</span></font><br />
<br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">The</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">Marines of Morenci - They led some of the scrappiest high school</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">football and basketball teams that the little Arizona copper town of</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">Morenci (pop. 5,058) had ever known and cheered. They enjoyed roaring</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">beer busts. In quieter moments, they rode horses along the Coronado</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">Trail, stalked deer in the  ApacheNational Forest . And in the patriotic</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">camaraderie typical of Morenci's mining families, the nine graduates of</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">Morenci High enlisted as a group in the Marine Corps. </span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">Their service began on Independence Day, 1966. Only 3 returned home.</span></font><br />
<br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">The</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">Buddies of Midvale - LeRoy Tafoya, Jimmy Martinez, Tom Gonzales were all</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">boyhood friends and lived on three consecutive streets in Midvale, Utah</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">on Fifth, Sixth and Seventh avenues. They lived only a few yards apart.</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">They played ball at the adjacent sandlot ball field. </span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">And they all went to  Vietnam . In a span of 16 dark days in late 1967,</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">all three would be killed. LeRoy was killed on Wednesday, Nov. 22, the</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">fourth anniversary of John F. Kennedy's assassination. Jimmy died less</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">than 24 hours later on Thanksgiving Day. Tom was shot dead assaulting</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">the enemy on Dec. 7, Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day.</span></font><br />
<br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">The most casualty deaths for a single day was on January 31, 1968 ~ 245</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">deaths.</span></font><br />
<br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">The most casualty deaths for a single</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">month was May 1968 - 2,415 casualties were incurred.</span></font><br />
<br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">For most Americans</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">who read this they will only see the numbers that the Vietnam War</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">created. To those of us who survived the war, and to the families of</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">those who did not, we see the faces, we feel the pain that these numbers</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">created. We are, until we too pass away, haunted with these numbers,</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">because they were our friends, fathers, husbands, wives, sons and</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">daughters. There are no noble wars, just noble warriors.</span></font><br />
<br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">Please</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">pass this on to those who served during this time, and those who DO</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">Care.</span></font><br />
<br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">Do not regret growing older.</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">It's a privilege denied to many.</span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">Unknown</span></font><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue"> SI VIS PACEM  </span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">    -- </span></font><br />
<font color="#454545"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue">    Peace through Superior Fire Power!!! </span></font></div>

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			<category domain="http://www.debatepolicy.com/forumdisplay.php?8-US-Military">US Military</category>
			<dc:creator>aboutime</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?40787-Information-few-will-learn-from-Washington-about-Vietnam</guid>
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			<title>SEAL Team 6 Afghan Shoot Down blamed on Obama/Military</title>
			<link>http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?40740-SEAL-Team-6-Afghan-Shoot-Down-blamed-on-Obama-Military&amp;goto=newpost</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 13 May 2013 12:56:20 GMT</pubDate>
			<description>http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/05/08/families-of-seal-team-6-to-reveal-why-they-think-the-govt-is-as-much-responsible-for-the-death-of-their-son...</description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><a href="http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/05/08/families-of-seal-team-6-to-reveal-why-they-think-the-govt-is-as-much-responsible-for-the-death-of-their-sons-as-the-taliban/" target="_blank">http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...s-the-taliban/</a><br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.press.org/events/navy-seal-team-vi-families" target="_blank">http://www.press.org/events/navy-seal-team-vi-families</a><br />
<br />
<i><b>Three families of Navy SEAL Team VI  Special Forces servicemen and another family of an Army National  Guardsman are scheduled to appear at a press conference on Thursday to  &#8220;disclose never before revealed information about how and why their sons  along with 26 others died in a fatal helicopter crash in Afghanistan,&#8221;  according to a press release issued by the families.</b><br />
<br />
 The helicopter, carrying 25 members of  SEAL Team VI and five other Americans, crashed in August of 2011 after  it was reportedly shot down by insurgents. A total of 38 people died  including seven Afghans and an interpreter. The tragic incident occurred  just a few months after the successful raid on the compound of Osama  bin Laden in Pakistan.<br />
 The families will reportedly be joined by retired military experts to explain <b>&#8220;how and why the government is as much responsible for the deaths of their sons as the Taliban,&#8221;</b> the release adds.<br />
 More from the press release obtained by TheBlaze:<br />
 The areas of inquiry at the press conference will include but not be limited to:<br />
 How President Obama and Vice President  Biden, having disclosed on May 4, 2011, that Navy Seal Team VI carried  out the successful raid on Bin Laden&#8217;s compound resulting in the master  terrorist&#8217;s death, put a retaliatory target on the backs of the fallen  heroes.<br />
 How and why high-level military  officials sent these Navy SEAL Team VI heroes into battle without  special operations aviation and proper air support.<br />
 How and why middle level military brass  carries out too many ill-prepared missions to boost their standing with  top-level military brass and the Commander-in-Chief in order that they  can be promoted."</i><br />
<br />
<br />
They were sent in unescorted?<br />
<br />
<br />
<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/0am4RKKB5gI?feature=player_detailpage" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="360" width="640"></iframe></div>

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			<category domain="http://www.debatepolicy.com/forumdisplay.php?8-US-Military">US Military</category>
			<dc:creator>revelarts</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?40740-SEAL-Team-6-Afghan-Shoot-Down-blamed-on-Obama-Military</guid>
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			<title>Why I am Proud, and wish I could do it all again.</title>
			<link>http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?40572-Why-I-am-Proud-and-wish-I-could-do-it-all-again&amp;goto=newpost</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 04 May 2013 00:02:50 GMT</pubDate>
			<description>I know many of our members are Veterans.  
Thought some might enjoy a taste of what many believe....is a thing of the past. 
...</description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>I know many of our members are Veterans. <br />
Thought some might enjoy a taste of what many believe....is a thing of the past.<br />
<br />

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 </div>

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			<category domain="http://www.debatepolicy.com/forumdisplay.php?8-US-Military">US Military</category>
			<dc:creator>aboutime</dc:creator>
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			<title><![CDATA[Pentagon upgrades 'bunker buster' bomb]]></title>
			<link>http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?40566-Pentagon-upgrades-bunker-buster-bomb&amp;goto=newpost</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 03 May 2013 14:34:48 GMT</pubDate>
			<description>http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/05/03/pentagon-upgrades-bunker-buster-bomb-in-attempt-to-penetrate-key-iran-nuke-site/?intcmp=obnetwork 
...</description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><a href="http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/05/03/pentagon-upgrades-bunker-buster-bomb-in-attempt-to-penetrate-key-iran-nuke-site/?intcmp=obnetwork" target="_blank">http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...tcmp=obnetwork</a><br />
<br />
<font color="#000000"><span style="font-family: Arial">Pentagon upgrades 'bunker buster' bomb in attempt to penetrate key Iran nuke site</span></font><font color="#000000"><span style="font-family: Arial"><br />
<br />
Read more: <a href="http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/05/03/pentagon-upgrades-bunker-buster-bomb-in-attempt-to-penetrate-key-iran-nuke-site/?intcmp=obnetwork#ixzz2SExDR0HZ" target="_blank">http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...#ixzz2SExDR0HZ</a><br />
<br />
The Pentagon has reportedly upgraded its "bunker buster bomb" in what officials say is a critical step in convincing Israel the U.S. has the ability to stop Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons if diplomacy fails.<br />
The Wall Street Journal reports the Massive Ordnance Penetrator, or MOP, has been fortified with advanced features that are meant to enable it to destroy Iran's most fortified nuclear site. <br />
The paper reports U.S. officials have demonstrated an earlier version of the bomb's capabilities to Israeli leaders several times recently by showing them a video of the bomb hitting its target in high-altitude testing.<br />
Pentagon officials view the development of the weapon as critical to convincing Israel it can rely on the U.S. to stop Iran from developing nukes, and that the Israeli military cannot do so on its own.<br />
"Hopefully we never have to use it," said a senior U.S. official told the Wall Street Journal. "But if we had to, it would work."<br />
According to the Wall Street Journal, the new version of the MOP has advanced components that would allow it to evade Iranian defense systems to reach the Fordow nuclear complex, which is by numerous accounts buried under a mountain in Iran. This upgraded version has not yet been dropped from a plane.<br />
In March, Pentagon officials are spoke publicly about the MOP bombs, which are from Boeing and designed to fit exclusively with the B-2 and B-52 bombers, for the first time. <br />
"It gives us a far greater capability to reach and destroy an enemy's weapons of mass destruction that are located in well protected underground facilities... to a magnitude far greater than we have now," Pentagon Spokesman Capt. John Kirby said.<br />
Kirby denied the bombs are designed to target Iran, even though it is the only country known to have buried its nuclear weapons program.<br />
"The system is not aimed at any one country, it's to develop a capability we believe we need," Kirby said. That remark was met by audible groans and various comments of disbelief from the Pentagon press corps.<br />
<br />
<br />
Read more: <a href="http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/05/03/pentagon-upgrades-bunker-buster-bomb-in-attempt-to-penetrate-key-iran-nuke-site/?intcmp=obnetwork#ixzz2SExPKyaF" target="_blank">http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...#ixzz2SExPKyaF</a><br />
<br />
<br />
Does no good if obama refuses to use them......</span></font></div>

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			<category domain="http://www.debatepolicy.com/forumdisplay.php?8-US-Military">US Military</category>
			<dc:creator>Tyr-Ziu Saxnot</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?40566-Pentagon-upgrades-bunker-buster-bomb</guid>
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			<title>Afghan Leader: Cash Deliveries by C.I.A.</title>
			<link>http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?40500-Afghan-Leader-Cash-Deliveries-by-C-I-A&amp;goto=newpost</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 29 Apr 2013 21:52:21 GMT</pubDate>
			<description><![CDATA[so we "win" the war by paying warlords to fight? winning hearts and minds with cold CASH.  
And don't forget we are paying the taliban not to fight...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>so we "win" the war by paying warlords to fight? winning hearts and minds with cold CASH. <br />
And don't forget we are <a href="http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Afghanistan/united-states-military-funding-taliban-afghanistan/story?id=10980527" target="_blank">paying the taliban not to fight</a>  when we and our allies --the coalition of the willing-- can't win. <a href="http://www.businessinsider.com/taliban-using-us-money-for-insurgency-2013-4" target="_blank">More here</a><b>, and </b><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/13/us-trucks-security-taliban" target="_blank">here</a><br />
And <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/10/28/afghanistan.taliban.pay/" target="_blank">Pay the taliban to switch sides</a><b>.<br />
<br />
<br />
Afghan Leader Acknowledges Cash Deliveries by C.I.A</b>.<br />
     Quote:<br />
     <div class="cms_table"><table width="100%" class="cms_table"><tr valign="top" class="cms_table_tr"><TD class="cms_table_alt2">                               KABUL, Afghanistan &#8211; President Hamid Karzai acknowledged on Monday  that the Central Intelligence Agency has been dropping off bags of cash  at his office for a decade, saying the money was used for &#8220;various  purposes&#8221; and expressing gratitude to the United States for making the  payments.<br />
Related<br />
<br />
Mr. Karzai described the sums delivered by the C.I.A. as a &#8220;small amount,&#8221; though he offered few other details. <b><font color="DarkRed">But  former and current advisers of the Afghan leader have said the C.I.A.  cash deliveries have totaled tens of millions of dollars over the past  decade and have been used to pay off warlords, lawmakers and others  whose support the Afghan leader depends upon.<br />
</font></b><br />
The payments are not universally supported in the United States  government. American diplomats and soldiers expressed dismay on Monday  about the C.I.A.'s cash deliveries, which some said fueled corruption.  They spoke privately because the C.I.A. effort is classified.<br />
<br />
Others were not so restrained. &#8220;We&#8217;ve all suspected it,&#8221; said  Representative Jason Chaffetz, Republican of Utah and a critic of the  war effort in Afghanistan. &#8220;But for President Karzai to admit it out  loud brings us into a bizarro world.&#8221;<br />
<br />
Mr. Karzai&#8217;s comments, made at a news conference in Helsinki, Finland,  where he is traveling, were not without precedent. When it emerged in  2010 that one of his top aides was taking bags of cash from Iran, Mr.  Karzai readily confirmed those reports and expressed gratitude for the  money. Iran cut off its payments last year after Afghanistan signed a  strategic partnership deal with the United States over Tehran&#8217;s  objections.<br />
<br />
The C.I.A. money continues to flow, Mr. Karzai said on Monday. &#8220;Yes, the  office of national security has been receiving support from the United  States for the past 10 years,&#8221; he told reporters in response to a  question. &#8220;Not a big amount. A small amount, which has been used for  various purposes.&#8221; He said the money was paid monthly.<br />
<br />
Afghan officials who described the payments before Monday&#8217;s comments  from Mr. Karzai said the cash from the C.I.A. was basically used as a  slush fund, similarly to the way the Iranian money was. Some went to pay  supporters; some went to cover other expenses that officials would  prefer to keep off the books, like sensitive diplomatic trips, officials  have said.<br />
<br />
After Mr. Karzai&#8217;s statement on Monday, the presidential palace in Kabul  said in a statement that the C.I.A. cash &#8220;has been used for different  purposes, such as in operations, assisting wounded Afghan soldiers and  paying rent.&#8221; The statement continued, &#8220;The assistance has been very  useful, and we are thankful to them for it.&#8221;<br />
<br />
<font color="DarkRed">The C.I.A. payments open a window to an element of  the war that has often gone unnoticed: the agency&#8217;s use of cash to  clandestinely buy the loyalty of Afghans. The agency paid powerful  warlords to fight against the Taliban during the 2001 invasion. It then  continued paying Afghans to keep battling the Taliban and help track  down the remnants of Al Qaeda. Mr. Karzai&#8217;s late brother, Ahmed Wali,  was among those paid by the agency, for instance.<br />
<br />
But the cash deliveries to Mr. Karzai&#8217;s office are of a different  magnitude with a far wider impact, helping the palace finance the vast  patronage networks that Mr. Karzai has used to build his power base. The  payments appear to run directly counter to American efforts to clean up  endemic corruption and encourage the Afghan government to be more  responsive to the needs of its constituents.<br />
</font><br />
&#8220;I thought we were trying to clean up waste, fraud and abuse in  Afghanistan,&#8221; said Mr. Chaffetz, whose House subcommittee has  investigated corruption in the country. &#8220;We have no credibility on this  issue when we&#8217;re complicit ourselves. I&#8217;m sure it was more than a few  hundreds dollars.&#8221;<br />
<br />
In Afghanistan, reaction to reports of the payments ranged from  conspiratorial to bemused. A former adviser to Mr. Karzai said the  palace was rife with speculation that the details of the payments had  been leaked to settle a bureaucratic or diplomatic score, either by  Afghans or by American officials.<br />
<br />
Outside official circles, some Afghans offered a lighter take. &#8220;They  make it sound as if it was a charity money dashed by a spy agency,&#8221;  wrote Sayed Salahuddin, an Afghan journalist, on Twitter, referring to  the palace statement that money had been used to help wounded soldiers.  &#8220;They must have &#8216;treated&#8217; many people.&#8221;<br />
<br />
Jawad Sukhanyar contributed reporting from Kabul.</TD>
</tr>
</table></div>
 <br />
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/30/world/asia/karzai-acknowledges-cash-deliveries-by-cia.html?_r=0" target="_blank">http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/30/wo...-cia.html?_r=0</a><br />
<br />
<br />
I'm sure someone will explain to me that's war is hell or something and why we "have to" do this or something but<br />
a song comes to mind...<br />
<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SMwZsFKIXa8?feature=player_detailpage" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="360" width="640"></iframe></div>

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			<category domain="http://www.debatepolicy.com/forumdisplay.php?8-US-Military">US Military</category>
			<dc:creator>revelarts</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?40500-Afghan-Leader-Cash-Deliveries-by-C-I-A</guid>
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			<title>Signature strikes discussed</title>
			<link>http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?40499-Signature-strikes-discussed&amp;goto=newpost</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 29 Apr 2013 20:31:39 GMT</pubDate>
			<description>Preface; 
 
A lot of attention is given by this administration to guns. And they prefer, most of us believe, to disarm us. The only thing stopping...</description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Preface;<br />
<br />
A lot of attention is given by this administration to guns. And they prefer, most of us believe, to disarm us. The only thing stopping them is the constitution. <br />
<br />
Yet the same government that wants us disarmed, or at the least, severely restricted in our owning guns, kills thousands of humans and excuses it.<br />
<br />
The topic is signature drone strikes. Bear in mind, these strikes are not cleared with the governments in the killing area. If the citizens of Pakistan or Yemen, believe their own government approves of these killings, it easily can destabilize those countries where it is used.<br />
<br />
Obama has killed thousands. <br />
<br />
Imagine that it was happening in NY or Ohio or CA, or pick a state. And we were told that Russia only was killing humans THEY decided were dangerous or bad people.<br />
<br />
Ok, here is an article. Use link to be briefed more fully. <br />
<br />
-----------------------------------------------<br />
<a href="http://www.propublica.org/article/drone-war-doctrine-we-know-nothing-about" target="_blank">http://www.propublica.org/article/dr...-nothing-about</a><br />
 <br />
<i>by <a href="http://www.propublica.org/site/author/cora_currier/" target="_blank">Cora Currier</a> and <a href="http://www.propublica.org/site/author/justin_elliott/" target="_blank">Justin Elliott</a><br />
ProPublica, Feb. 26, 2013, 8 a.m.</i><br />
·                               <br />
<br />
The nomination of John Brennan to be CIA director has prompted <a href="http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/02/07/brennan-pressed-drones-confirmation/" target="_blank">intense debate</a> on Capitol Hill and in the media about U.S. drone killings abroad. But the focus has been on the targeting of American citizens – a narrow issue that accounts for a miniscule proportion of the hundreds of drone strikes in Pakistan and Yemen in recent years.<br />
Consider: while <a href="http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb/08/nation/la-na-targeted-killing-20130209" target="_blank">four</a> American citizens are known to have been killed by drones in the past decade, the strikes have killed an<a href="http://counterterrorism.newamerica.net/drones" target="_blank">estimated</a> <a href="http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/category/projects/drones/" target="_blank">total</a> of 2,600 to 4,700 people over the same period.<br />
<br />
 <br />
<aside><br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.propublica.org/article/everything-we-know-so-far-about-drone-strikes" target="_blank">Everything We Know So Far About Drone Strikes</a><br />
<i>by Cora Currier, ProPublica</i><br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
</aside><br />
<br />
<br />
The focus on American citizens overshadows a far more common, and less understood, type of strike: those that do not target American citizens, Al Qaeda leaders, or, in fact, any other specific individual.<br />
In these attacks, known as “<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/29/world/obamas-leadership-in-war-on-al-qaeda.html?pagewanted=all#p&#91;IPMIPM]" target="_blank">signature strikes</a>,” drone operators fire on people whose identities they do not know based on evidence of suspicious behavior or other “signatures.” According to anonymously sourced media reports, such attacks on unidentified targets account for many, or <a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204621904577013982672973836.html" target="_blank">even</a> <a href="http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-02-08/world/36988536_1_drone-program-special-court-judicial-review" target="_blank">most</a>, drone strikes.<br />
Despite that, the administration has never publicly spoken about signature strikes. Basic questions remain unanswered.<br />
What is the legal justification for signature strikes? What qualifies as a “signature” that would prompt a deadly strike? Do those being targeted have to pose a threat to the United States? And how many civilians have been killed in such strikes?<br />
The administration has rebuffed <a href="http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/02/08/members-of-congress-have-asked-for-the-targeted-killing-memos-14-times/" target="_blank">repeated</a> requests from Congress to provide answers – even in secret.</div>

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			<category domain="http://www.debatepolicy.com/forumdisplay.php?8-US-Military">US Military</category>
			<dc:creator>Robert A Whit</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?40499-Signature-strikes-discussed</guid>
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			<title>Major Winters attacks Carantan</title>
			<link>http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?40486-Major-Winters-attacks-Carantan&amp;goto=newpost</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 28 Apr 2013 07:39:40 GMT</pubDate>
			<description>I hope some of you military history types like this. Band of Brothers is one of my favorites in my DVD collection. 
 
http://youtu.be/UitLOeZENlU</description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>I hope some of you military history types like this. Band of Brothers is one of my favorites in my DVD collection.<br />
<br />

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			<category domain="http://www.debatepolicy.com/forumdisplay.php?8-US-Military">US Military</category>
			<dc:creator>Robert A Whit</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?40486-Major-Winters-attacks-Carantan</guid>
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			<title>Damien Lewis as Major Wintgers</title>
			<link>http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?40485-Damien-Lewis-as-Major-Wintgers&amp;goto=newpost</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 28 Apr 2013 07:32:34 GMT</pubDate>
			<description>Captain Sobel was the commander of the company Winters trained in.  
 
As CO of E company, Sobel was a full blooded jerk. Winters later said of him...</description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Captain Sobel was the commander of the company Winters trained in. <br />
<br />
As CO of E company, Sobel was a full blooded jerk. Winters later said of him that his tough training under Sobel and his quest for perfection was great for what he faced in Combat. As I recall, Sobel told the then 1st Lt Winters that you salute the rank and not the man.<br />
<br />
Little did Sobel realize his fate was to later meet Major Winters though Sobel never rose above Captain and a salute was owed. <br />
<br />
Watch this clip. I love it. <br />

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]]></content:encoded>
			<category domain="http://www.debatepolicy.com/forumdisplay.php?8-US-Military">US Military</category>
			<dc:creator>Robert A Whit</dc:creator>
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			<title>Tribute to Major Dick Winters (Requium for a soldier)</title>
			<link>http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?40483-Tribute-to-Major-Dick-Winters-(Requium-for-a-soldier)&amp;goto=newpost</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 28 Apr 2013 06:48:46 GMT</pubDate>
			<description>Band of Brothers is in my DVD collection.  
 
We will see here the Brit who played Winters who died in 2011 and was also shown in the DVD series. The...</description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div>Band of Brothers is in my DVD collection. <br />
<br />
We will see here the Brit who played Winters who died in 2011 and was also shown in the DVD series. The Brit has become one of my favorite actors. You will find out his name. But what the heck. Damien Lewis is the Brit star. <br />
<br />

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			<category domain="http://www.debatepolicy.com/forumdisplay.php?8-US-Military">US Military</category>
			<dc:creator>Robert A Whit</dc:creator>
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