Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 26 of 26
  1. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    The Republic of Texas
    Posts
    47,811
    Thanks (Given)
    34243
    Thanks (Received)
    26347
    Likes (Given)
    2312
    Likes (Received)
    9910
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    12
    Mentioned
    368 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    21475524

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaffer View Post
    He's either a chicken shit, a liberal playing a polical card or a muslim. I don't think it has anything to do with convictions.
    Thing is, it really doesn't matter what it has to do with. He joined voluntarily and he's been taking the pay and benefits. Now when it's his turn to fulfill his part of the agreement, he's refusing.

    Military courts are infamous for not giving a damn why without some unusal, mitigating circumstances. Clearly, his personal opinion does not fall under that category.

    The fact is he refused to obey a lawful order, and then, speaking as a member of the US military made political statements to the media. The jury of his "peers" will consist of mostly those who have already done at least one tour, so I'm not seeing his getting the sympathy vote.

    What I meant to say in my previous post is that I can respect the fact that right or wrong, he is standing accountable for his actions, an almost extinct trait in this country.

    I don't respect his decision nor his reasoning for making it, and could care less what his reasoning. I'd vote to max him out.

    I'm not sure about the charges. In the Corps, you get one count for each time you refuse to obey the order. I'm sure he refused to obey it more than once before charges were preferred. I'd be willing to be the CoC tried to talk him into doing what he was ordered to do more than once. That would be two years for each count, not two years total, in addition to the four years for the political statement.

    Ten years for being a nimrod would work for me.
    “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Newnan, GA
    Posts
    6,236
    Thanks (Given)
    21
    Thanks (Received)
    83
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    31136

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil View Post
    Unfortunate for you fellas working with him that you already ready some of the sentiments alreay posted, guess it may different when you have to work with the guy. I have read basically the same thing about another soldier, perhaps a strategic claim to try, and escape duty but others that have signed are paying their dues so this guy should get the maximum penalty as far as I am concerned.
    Oh, I hope he gets the maximum punishment, for sure. It's shameful that an officer would try and sham out of duty like that just to make a political statement.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    18,758
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    139 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    21475233

    Default

    The biggest problem is this:

    He says he doesn't want to go to Iraq to fight an illegal war - yet he was not ordered to fight - he was ordered to MOVE. He willingly missed a lawful movement of troops.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    The Republic of Texas
    Posts
    47,811
    Thanks (Given)
    34243
    Thanks (Received)
    26347
    Likes (Given)
    2312
    Likes (Received)
    9910
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    12
    Mentioned
    368 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    21475524

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dmp View Post
    The biggest problem is this:

    He says he doesn't want to go to Iraq to fight an illegal war - yet he was not ordered to fight - he was ordered to MOVE. He willingly missed a lawful movement of troops.
    I know the Marines enforces Art 87 (missing movement). I just wasn't aware if any of the other services do. I believe the Navy does as well. IF so, that's another charge against him.
    “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    18,758
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    139 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    21475233

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
    I know the Marines enforces Art 87 (missing movement). I just wasn't aware if any of the other services do. I believe the Navy does as well. IF so, that's another charge against him.
    That's the principle charge against him.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    The Republic of Texas
    Posts
    47,811
    Thanks (Given)
    34243
    Thanks (Received)
    26347
    Likes (Given)
    2312
    Likes (Received)
    9910
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    12
    Mentioned
    368 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    21475524

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dmp View Post
    That's the principle charge against him.
    I thought it was disobeying a lawful order.
    “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    18,758
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    139 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    21475233

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
    I thought it was disobeying a lawful order.

    A movement order is a lawful order.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    The Republic of Texas
    Posts
    47,811
    Thanks (Given)
    34243
    Thanks (Received)
    26347
    Likes (Given)
    2312
    Likes (Received)
    9910
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    12
    Mentioned
    368 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    21475524

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dmp View Post
    A movement order is a lawful order.
    I see. So you're saying the movement itself is violation of an order. My interpretation of Art 87 is missing movement is a violation of Art 87. Art 92 is failure to obey an order.

    The Marines hammer you for both as separate charges.
    “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    18,758
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    139 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    21475233

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
    I see. So you're saying the movement itself is violation of an order. My interpretation of Art 87 is missing movement is a violation of Art 87. Art 92 is failure to obey an order.

    The Marines hammer you for both as separate charges.
    He may have been given OTHER lawful orders, too.

    According to The Army Times:

    Watada, 28, is charged with missing movement after refusing to deploy with his unit, the 3rd Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division. The Army also proceeded with charges of conduct unbecoming an officer for statements he made to journalists and at a veterans convention.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Georgia!
    Posts
    11,810
    Thanks (Given)
    738
    Thanks (Received)
    666
    Likes (Given)
    1133
    Likes (Received)
    819
    Piss Off (Given)
    24
    Piss Off (Received)
    1
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    1203901

    Default

    He’ll serve time, how much I donno. On the positive the guy hasn’t run to Canada. Gotta respect that.
    UNITED STATES ARMY AVIATION

    Above the Best

    Why the Hell should I have to press “1” for ENGLISH?

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    837
    Thanks (Given)
    0
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    140101

    Default

    Max him out. If he gets over it will set a really bad precedent.
    I'm Phil -- 40 something heterosexual white male, fairly self sufficient, great with my kids, wed 29 years to the same woman, and I firmly believe that ones actions have logical consequences. How much more out the box can you get nowadays? -- MSgt of Marines (ret)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Debate Policy - Political Forums