Lessons From the Surge

[red states rule]

The lessons learned from the surge is no job is to great for the US military, and most Democrats were wrong about how the surge would succeed



Lessons From the Surge
By Michael Barone

There are lessons to be learned from the dazzling success of the surge strategy in Iraq.

Lesson one is that just about no mission is impossible for the United States military. A year ago it was widely thought, not just by the new Democratic leaders in Congress but also in many parts of the Pentagon, that containing the violence in Iraq was impossible. Now we have seen it done.

We have seen this before in American history. George Washington's forces seemed on the brink of defeat many times in the agonizing years before Yorktown. Abraham Lincoln's generals seemed so unsuccessful in the Civil War that in August 1864 it was widely believed he would be defeated for re-election. But finally Lincoln found the right generals. Sherman took Atlanta and marched to the sea; Grant pressed forward in Virginia.

Franklin Roosevelt picked the right generals and admirals from the start in World War II, but the first years of the war were filled with errors and mistakes. Even Vietnam is not necessarily a counterexample. As Lewis Sorley argues persuasively in "A Better War: The Unexamined Victories and Final Tragedy of America's Last Years in Vietnam," Gen. Creighton Abrams came up with a winning strategy by 1972. South Vietnam fell three years later when the North Vietnamese army attacked en masse, and Congress refused to allow the aid the U.S. had promised.

George W. Bush, like Lincoln, took his time finding the right generals. But it's clear now that the forward-moving surge strategy devised by Gens. David Petraeus and Raymond Odierno has succeeded where the stand-aside strategy employed by their predecessors failed. American troops are surely the most capable military force in history. They just need to be given the right orders.

Lesson two is that societies can more easily be transformed from the bottom up than from the top down. Bush's critics are still concentrating on the failure of the central Iraqi government to reach agreement on important issues -- even though the oil revenues are already being distributed to the provinces. We persuaded the Iraqis to elect their parliament from national party lists (reportedly so that it would include more women) rather than to elect them from single-member districts that would have elected community leaders more in touch with local opinion.

for the complete article

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...the_surge.html

[gabosaurus]

I am surprised at how readily the Republican accepted the "surge" bullshit. It was a massive troop buildup that has done very little.
Of course, if you read only the extreme right wing sites, you would think that the Mission has become Re-Accomplished.

[Gaffer]

I am surprised at how readily the Republican accepted the "surge" bullshit. It was a massive troop buildup that has done very little.
Of course, if you read only the extreme right wing sites, you would think that the Mission has become Re-Accomplished.

The surge should have taught you that if something doesn't work you try something different. But you keep using the same old failed line the libs have been using for years. You need to read something besides the left wing wacko sites and get some real facts for a change.

[retiredman]

I never once doubted the US Military's ability to accomplish the military mission of the surge: to provide a calm period of time relatively devoid of violence so that the Iraqi politicians could come to the compromise decisions necessary to form a lasting government.

It is, therefore, no surprise to me that we have done our part and done it well...

It is, unfortunately, also no surprise to me that the Iraqi politicians have failed to do their part.

[red states rule]

I never once doubted the US Military's ability to accomplish the military mission of the surge: to provide a calm period of time relatively devoid of violence so that the Iraqi politicians could come to the compromise decisions necessary to form a lasting government.

It is, therefore, no surprise to me that we have done our part and done it well...

It is, unfortunately, also no surprise to me that the Iraqi politicians have failed to do their part.

It must have been a shock to your party leaders - they are said the war was lost and the surge was a waste of time

[Lazarus]

There was never any doubt that our military could tamp down the violence, temporarily.

What was in doubt, and what has come to pass, is that the 2nd wave of this plan was ill-conceived.

Bush sold this as a package deal. The two cannot be split up at this late stage.

The diplomatic aspect was designed to fail.
A sovereign nation must choose its' own path, and no amount of coaxing from outside agitators will produce any sustainable results.

We could force our vision of a " democracy " upon the populace, but it would only produce an unstable equilibrium.

Our Armed Forces =
I'd give them a " B "

Our State Dept. =
a " D "

[red states rule]

There was never any doubt that our military could tamp down the violence, temporarily.

What was in doubt, and what has come to pass, is that the 2nd wave of this plan was ill-conceived.

Bush sold this as a package deal. The two cannot be split up at this late stage.

The diplomatic aspect was designed to fail.
A sovereign nation must choose its' own path, and no amount of coaxing from outside agitators will produce any sustainable results.

We could force our vision of a " democracy " upon the populace, but it would only produce an unstable equilibrium.

Our Armed Forces =
I'd give them a " B "

Our State Dept. =
a " D "

There was alot of doubt on the left

Now they are having to eat their words of defeat

[retiredman]

It must have been a shock to your party leaders - they are said the war was lost and the surge was a waste of time

what are your thoughts about the lack of Iraqi political progress that the surge was designed to promote? and what will happen when the surge troops are forced to come home in april due to troop rotation?

[red states rule]

what are your thoughts about the lack of Iraqi political progress that the surge was designed to promote? and what will happen when the surge troops are forced to come home in april due to troop rotation?

The government is working on their issues - they have alot of work to do

Of course, libs were saying how the surge would never work - and now they are searching for anything to distract from their previous doom and gloom rants

[retiredman]

The government is working on their issues - they have alot of work to do

Of course, libs were saying how the surge would never work - and now they are searching for anything to distract from their previous doom and gloom rants

on a military level, the surge worked. no doubt. our troops and our military commanders should be congratulated for a job well done!

an analogy:

a patient has a heart attack and has blocked coronary arteries. doctors operate. they go into his heart and open up all of his coronary arteries with stents and restore blood flow to all muscle areas of the heart. the operation was a complete success. but the patient died anyway.

our surge can "succeed", but if the Iraqi government does not make progress, the patient died....get the analogy? The surge will be over in April. troop levels will return to the level they were when violence was out of control. If there is no political progress that will stop the violence from returning, what will the surge really have accomplished, in the long run?

[trobinett]

on a military level, the surge worked. no doubt. our troops and our military commanders should be congratulated for a job well done!

an analogy:

a patient has a heart attack and has blocked coronary arteries. doctors operate. they go into his heart and open up all of his coronary arteries with stents and restore blood flow to all muscle areas of the heart. the operation was a complete success. but the patient died anyway.

our surge can "succeed", but if the Iraqi government does not make progress, the patient died....get the analogy? The surge will be over in April. troop levels will return to the level they were when violence was out of control. If there is no political progress that will stop the violence from returning, what will the surge really have accomplished, in the long run?

That's a trick question right?



























More dead BAD GUY'S.

[red states rule]

That's a trick question right?



























More dead BAD GUY'S.

Of course it is. MM wnts us to ignore the good news, and still sees the glass as half empty

[April15]

In truth while the increase in military personel has aided in the building of walls around neighborhoods and creating little islands that are easier to defend, the city of Baghdad is a ruined area. People want to compare 4000 deaths over 5 years of war with those of a city in the mainland US is silly as the war has been in a city. I did not think Bush would pick a general who could do the job of securing a city but he seems to have done so, this time. But 140,000 troops to keep the order in 1 city?

[red states rule]

In truth while the increase in military personel has aided in the building of walls around neighborhoods and creating little islands that are easier to defend, the city of Baghdad is a ruined area. People want to compare 4000 deaths over 5 years of war with those of a city in the mainland US is silly as the war has been in a city. I did not think Bush would pick a general who could do the job of securing a city but he seems to have done so, this time. But 140,000 troops to keep the order in 1 city?

Remember Fallujah?

It was a hotbed and stronghold for AQ

Not anymore

http://www.newsweek.com/id/81993

[Gaffer]

The military part of the surge has and is working. The political part is still on going. It takes longer. The military success allows the politicians to do their job. And as their job is completed the economic part will kick into gear. Of course the libs don't want the political and economic parts to succeed because it will prove them wrong again and make Bush look good.

As for the analogy. The surgery would be successful if the anesthesiologist hadn't made the determination before hand that the surgery was hopeless and pulled out in the middle of the operation declaring it a failure.

Guess which part of the medical team MM represents.