PRIVATE POLL: Question; Do You Think We Should Get Out Of Iraq, Or Stay There?

[Dilloduck]

Ah but then we'd have been for it, before being against it.

Has anyone spoken about the flypaper strategy lately? That worked out, ya know. Costs were high, but not as high as feared. Then again, in hindsite, it was supposed to be cost free.

Then again that's all in the past and for historians and politicos to argue about. We need to do the right thing as the situation presents itself.

[LiberalNation]

Invading Iraq had little to NOTHING to do with the security of America, or 911.

Oh you say that now, you were singing a different tune a few years ago. Flip-flopping, kook liberal.

[Kathianne]

Then again that's all in the past and for historians and politicos to argue about. We need to do the right thing as the situation presents itself.

Which is what in your opinion?

[Dilloduck]

Which is what in your opinion?

I already posted it. You didn't pop that cork too early did ya ?

[OCA]

Now it's about oil. Funny thing, that didn't work in the first place, with the price increase and all. If it were for the oil, damn we need to do a better job.

I do think that oil played a part in it, its not like, as oil dependent a country as we are and as much oil as exists in the M.E. we simply have to be concerned about who controls what, so yes oil does play a part in our foriegn policy in the M.E. and was a factor in going into Iraq.

But yeah, I wish we'd see a few more benefits from that oil also.

[Kathianne]

I do think that oil played a part in it, its not like, as oil dependent a country as we are and as much oil as exists in the M.E. we simply have to be concerned about who controls what, so yes oil does play a part in our foriegn policy in the M.E. and was a factor in going into Iraq.

But yeah, I wish we'd see a few more benefits from that oil also.

I'm not saying it's Darfur, but I am saying we went in because it was ME, not because of oil for us.

[actsnoblemartin]

israel is at constant war because the muslim god forbid has a country that isnt 95% plus muslim, while israel is 20% muslim IN israel.

A few big bases, that means indefinitely. Do you think the Iraqis will allow it in the long term, infidels on muslim soil. We'd be in the same boat as Israel, constant war with no end in sight ever.

Anybody wana respond to my other post?

[OCA]

israel is at constant war because the muslim god forbid has a country that isnt 95% plus muslim, while israel is 20% muslim IN israel.

Can someone translate this for me? Its unreadable.

[5stringJeff]

Time will tell, no? What are you all going to do if the Iraqis deal with the problems?

If they don't, I can easily say, 'we tried.'

Whether they do or don't, we did what we came to do. Whether Iraq becomes a thriving democracy means little to me.

[5stringJeff]

Make the Iraqi army start to control certain sectors of Iraq with absolutely no US intervention. If they can handle it, give them more. If they get their asses kicked, make sure the terrorists stay in that sector and let them fight it out. Until we make the Iraqi army accountable, we will continue to fight their battles and more Americans will die.

I think we should give Iraq one sector: the whole country. It's sink-or-swim time.

[Pale Rider]

Now it's about oil. Funny thing, that didn't work in the first place, with the price increase and all. If it were for the oil, damn we need to do a better job.

Yes it's about oil. Piss poor thing about it though is we're not benefiting from it, we're just protecting it, well, in a way we benefit from that. Think about it, if Iran or Venezuela decided to stop selling oil to America, we've got our own private oil fields in Iraq. You don't think that was why we went into Iraq? Maybe it wasn't the ONLY reason, but it was a BIG reason.

[Pale Rider]

Oh you say that now, you were singing a different tune a few years ago. Flip-flopping, kook liberal.

Ummm... no... I've said from the beginning that I never knew why we went into Iraq.

I didn't think you were old enough to drink...

[Kathianne]

Yes it's about oil. Piss poor thing about it though is we're not benefiting from it, we're just protecting it, well, in a way we benefit from that. Think about it, if Iran or Venezuela decided to stop selling oil to America, we've got our own private oil fields in Iraq. You don't think that was why we went into Iraq? Maybe it wasn't the ONLY reason, but it was a BIG reason.

We don't Pale, have the oil fields, I mean. If anyone decides not to sell us oil, we'll buy it somewhere else. It's all on the market, there's no controls about that. Believe me, FDR would have hated this back in '41.

[Pale Rider]

We don't Pale, have the oil fields, I mean. If anyone decides not to sell us oil, we'll buy it somewhere else. It's all on the market, there's no controls about that. Believe me, FDR would have hated this back in '41.

Honestly then Kath, if it's not about the oil, what are we still doing there?

[Gaffer]

So what happens if we just up and pull out of iraq. The shites and sunnis start fighting with each other. A major blood bath. No big deal for us as its just a bunch of muslims killing each other. But over time it will draw in all the other arab and muslim countries. Eventually one religious fundamentalist government will arise over the others. No biggie. Just a bunch of muslims. But then fundamentalist muslims are a dangerous lot to be controlling anything.

Since oil is of major importance to the world as well as the US, it is of primary importance to be sure of who controls the oil shipments going out of the middle east. If iran was in control of all the shipments, because of intimidation or outright control of the other countries, do you think we could actually sit by and do nothing? iraq would eventually become a puppet of iran, as would other arab states. That is not in the security interests of the US. It becomes a threat to our economy and our security.

By nation building we can attempt to insure a moderate and friendly government being in place. One that will keep the fundamentalists under control and out of power. It's being done now. The iraqi army has taken over a big share of the fighting along with the militia in tribal areas. But you won't hear about that on the media. They don't report the huge amount of success the troops have had. Both US and Iraqi troops.

I was all for the invasion of Iraq. I still am. I have stood behind the troops since the beginning and not changing course just because something goes wrong once in a while. Was Bush wrong on things. In some cases yes. We all make bad judgments. You learn from them and move on. Success takes time and perseverance.

As for a combat patrol just going out to be picked off. That's not how it works. They are not going out just to get shot at. They are going out to locate and engage the enemy. Sometimes that means letting the enemy fire first. You just hope you see him first, or that he's a really bad shot.

Ever really read the reports of battles that took place. Whenever there are multiple casualties they are from IED's. When troops are shot there are one or two and the enemy takes ten or more with dozens captured. You never hear reports of a company sized engagement 50 casualties in one fight. That's because our guys are professionals, well trained and highly motivated. They are not victims being sent to the slaughter.

As I see it we have a choice here. Nation build or eventually fight a full scale nuclear and conventional war.