Was FDR a fascist?

[diuretic]

Goldberg again - Newspeak and doublethink again.

No, FDR wasn't a fascist. Fascists tried to remove him:

The Business Plot, the Plot Against FDR, or the White House Putsch, was a political conspiracy involving several wealthy businessmen to overthrow the presidency of Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1933.

Details of the matter came to light when retired Marine Corps Major General Smedley Butler testified before a Congressional committee that a group of men had attempted to recruit him to serve as the leader of a plot and to assume and wield power once the coup was successful. Butler testified before the McCormack-Dickstein Committee in 1934.[1] In his testimony, Butler claimed that a group of several men had approached him as part of a plot to overthrow Roosevelt in a military coup. One of the alleged plotters, Gerald MacGuire, vehemently denied any such plot. In their final report, the Congressional committee supported Butler's allegations on the existence of the plot,[2] but no prosecutions or further investigations followed, and the matter was mostly forgotten.

Major General Butler claimed that the American Liberty League was the primary means of funding the plot. The main backers were the Du Pont family, as well as leaders of U.S. Steel, General Motors, Standard Oil, Chase National Bank, and Goodyear Tire and Rubber Company. A BBC documentary about the plot alleges that Prescott Bush, father and grandfather to the 41st and 43rd US Presidents respectively, was also connected.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot - more at link.

The US dodged fascism. Interestingly enough the UK also flirted with fascism in the time leading up to WWII and while many of the British aristocracy - and it's suggested the King (Edward VIII - later the Duke of Windsor) was sympathetic. In my own country there was an active fascist grouping - http://www.abc.net.au/gnt/history/Tr...s/s1202889.htm.

[glockmail]

....

No, FDR wasn't a fascist. Fascists tried to remove him:.....

So what? He attacked them.

[diuretic]

So what? He attacked them.

I'd like to respond but I need a bit more info. I know "he" is FDR, but who are "them"?

[JackDaniels]

Mike Church put it simply the other day when he compared socialism to fascism. “A fascist is a socialist with a gun.” Although overly simplified, the comparison is valid.

Its fairly obvious that FDR was a socialist. He ushered in the era of Big Government. His wide reaching social programs, such as Social Security, the “alphabet agencies” such as the WPA and the CCC, the explosive growth of government, and government employment have caused millions to be dependent on the government. He raised taxes to the highest level ever seen in America, up to an individual marginal rate of 91%!

But did FDR cross the line into fascism? Did he use a “gun” to enforce his policies? If you refuse to pay your taxes, would you not be threatened with imprisonment? What about the relocation camps for Americans of Japanese, Italian, or German origin?

FDR crossed the line. He was a fascist.

FDR was undeniably, unquestionably a socialist. He did not believe in private property or personal ownership (unless it was about what he owned).

However, fascism is a very specific term in political science. One of the key ingredients in fascism is what can be described as hyper-nationalism.

FDR does not fit the real definition of fascism.

[Kathianne]

FDR was undeniably, unquestionably a socialist. He did not believe in private property or personal ownership (unless it was about what he owned).

However, fascism is a very specific term in political science. One of the key ingredients in fascism is what can be described as hyper-nationalism.

FDR does not fit the real definition of fascism.

Right about FDR to a point, wrong about fascism definition in political science. In any case, not worthy of negative rep.

How did JackDaniels get his rep? I disagree with many if not most of his posts, but not to the point of negging.

[JackDaniels]

Right about FDR to a point, wrong about fascism definition in political science. In any case, not worthy of negative rep.

Whaaaa? While we can argue about little details, no educated person in political science would disagree that hypernationism is an important, though not full, aspect of fascism.

"Fascism exploits nationalism by playing upon feelings of superiority over others." (http://www2.sunysuffolk.edu/westn/fascism.html)

While fascism is not defined as hypernationalism, hypernationalism is a necessary ingredient -- however presented, whether implicit or explicit.

How did JackDaniels get his rep? I disagree with many if not most of his posts, but not to the point of negging.

I get neg repped by nevadamedic and waterrescuedude2000 about 10 times a week -- they seem to think it makes them right, while in reality they have been intellectually bitchslapped by nearly every member of this board. I'm just not so petty as to care about "rep" I guess, unlike our liberal friends nv and others.

[Yurt]

Whaaaa? While we can argue about little details, no educated person in political science would disagree that hypernationism is an important, though not full, aspect of fascism.

"Fascism exploits nationalism by playing upon feelings of superiority over others." (http://www2.sunysuffolk.edu/westn/fascism.html)

While fascism is not defined as hypernationalism, hypernationalism is a necessary ingredient -- however presented, whether implicit or explicit.



I get neg repped by nevadamedic and waterrescuedude2000 about 10 times a week -- they seem to think it makes them right, while in reality they have been intellectually bitchslapped by nearly every member of this board. I'm just not so petty as to care about "rep" I guess, unlike our liberal friends nv and others.

interesting

[flaja]

Whaaaa? While we can argue about little details, no educated person in political science would disagree that hypernationism is an important, though not full, aspect of fascism.

Compared to Italy and Germany fascist Spain wasn't nationalist at all. And why did the socialists in the Soviet Union call WWII the Great Patriotic War?

"Fascism exploits nationalism by playing upon feelings of superiority over others." (http://www2.sunysuffolk.edu/westn/fascism.html)

Again Spain.

While fascism is not defined as hypernationalism, hypernationalism is a necessary ingredient -- however presented, whether implicit or explicit.

Spain?

Nationalism isn't a required component of fascism since there were "fascist" states that were not overly nationalistic while there have also been non-fascists states where nationalism ran rampant (Imperial Germany, France almost always, Greece while fighting the Turks).

[flaja]

If you automatically equate liberalism with big government, did we have big government back in the 19th century when the federal government was building roads and canals and giving massive amounts of public land to homesteaders and railroad companies? How was the Homestead Act not the biggest welfare program in history?

[JackDaniels]

If you automatically equate liberalism with big government, did we have big government back in the 19th century when the federal government was building roads and canals and giving massive amounts of public land to homesteaders and railroad companies? How was the Homestead Act not the biggest welfare program in history?

With no income tax, either.

[flaja]

With no income tax, either.

But with high tariffs.

[Dilloduck]

If you automatically equate liberalism with big government, did we have big government back in the 19th century when the federal government was building roads and canals and giving massive amounts of public land to homesteaders and railroad companies? How was the Homestead Act not the biggest welfare program in history?

Because homesteaders fed America until the land was foreclosed on ?

[flaja]

Because homesteaders fed America until the land was foreclosed on ?

So you think it is the government’s responsibility to feed people? How liberal can you get?

[glockmail]

.....How was the Homestead Act not the biggest welfare program in history?

The government didn't tax the people to purchase the land in the first place.

[flaja]

The government didn't tax the people to purchase the land in the first place.

Most of the land that was homesteaded is found in the region that made up the Louisiana Purchase and the Mexican Cession. The U.S. used tax money to buy the Louisiana land outright from France and the Mexican land came to the U.S. following the Mexican War and part of the treaty that ended that war (and transferred the land to the U.S.) required the federal government to assume some debts that Mexicans owed to U.S. citizens.