The Air Force Reaches for the Sky

[LiberalNation]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/2008022...rEwojGv7MDW7oF

The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have worn down the nation's ground forces, stretching those serving in the Army and Marines and wearing out their gear at an unprecedented rate. So, it's no surprise that the nation's ground-pounders would be seeking the most from the ever-cooperative members of the House Armed Services Committee. For years, that Pentagon-pleasing panel has asked the services to send it a wish list - lawmakers prefer to call it an "unfunded requirements list" - of budget items they desire but which have not been approved by their penny-pinching civilian overseers, i.e. the Defense Secretary and the President.


Earlier this month, the Army stepped up to the plate and asked for $4 billion more than the $141 billion it is slated to receive in 2009. The Marines asked for $3 billion more than their proposed ration of $25 billion. The Navy asked for $5 billion to be added to its bottom line of $124 billion. But all those sums added together don't equal the - hold your breath, dear taxpayer - $19 billion that the Air Force wants over and above its $144 billion request.


A quick flip through the 11-page list turns up a $13 million "requirement" for dorm furniture - an item that may justify the other services dubbing it the "Chair Force" because so many of its people are behind desks. In response to questions from TIME on the list's contents and cost, the Air Force issued a statement Thursday saying the list contains only its "most critical needs." Lieutenant General Dave Deptula, the Air Force's top intel officer, says his service's needs "are severe and getting worse," and that the list reflects the gap "between where we are and where we need to be."


Highlighting the huge request is a proposal by the Air Force to trump its civilian leaders and buy twice as many F-22 jets as now planned, while hyping the threats to justify the buy. China and India are, in the Air Force's eyes, the 21st century equivalent of the Soviet Union, requiring billions in new aircraft that even a hawkish Republican President doesn't think are needed. More critically, every dollar spent on supersonic aircraft is a dollar that isn't spent on the kind of troops and materiel needed to wage the two irregular wars the nation is now fighting, and which many experts predict will be the kinds of wars fought for the next generation or two.


The military is hardly starving. The Pentagon's proposed 2009 Defense Budget is twice the size of the budget President Bush inherited from Bill Clinton. Even without the nearly $200 billion for the wars, the $515 billion tab is on par with the defense budgets of World War II. "Today, free-flowing funding has fundamentally undermined all budget discipline in the Pentagon," says Gordon Adams, who oversaw military spending from a senior post in the Clinton White House.


Take the fight over the F-22. The Pentagon has declared it wants to cap procurement at 183 planes, for $65 billion. But the Air Force wants 380 of them. "We think that [183] is the wrong number," General Bruce Carlson, the Air Force's top weapons buyer, told reporters at a Feb. 13 industry gathering. "We're committed to funding 380," he added. "We're building a program right now to do that." Defense Secretary Robert Gates called Air Force Secretary Michael Wynne after reading Carlson's comments in Aerospace Daily, a trade paper, and told him to remind Carlson who's the boss. (Wynne did, and issued a statement saying the Air Force "wholeheartedly supports" the Administration's proposal.)


Days earlier, Carlson said that today's U.S. Air Force "simply cannot fight and win against the fleet of airplanes that have been developed and are flying in India, China, and so forth," a claim questioned by many experts.

[AFbombloader]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/2008022...rEwojGv7MDW7oF

The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have worn down the nation's ground forces, stretching those serving in the Army and Marines and wearing out their gear at an unprecedented rate. So, it's no surprise that the nation's ground-pounders would be seeking the most from the ever-cooperative members of the House Armed Services Committee. For years, that Pentagon-pleasing panel has asked the services to send it a wish list - lawmakers prefer to call it an "unfunded requirements list" - of budget items they desire but which have not been approved by their penny-pinching civilian overseers, i.e. the Defense Secretary and the President.


Earlier this month, the Army stepped up to the plate and asked for $4 billion more than the $141 billion it is slated to receive in 2009. The Marines asked for $3 billion more than their proposed ration of $25 billion. The Navy asked for $5 billion to be added to its bottom line of $124 billion. But all those sums added together don't equal the - hold your breath, dear taxpayer - $19 billion that the Air Force wants over and above its $144 billion request.


A quick flip through the 11-page list turns up a $13 million "requirement" for dorm furniture - an item that may justify the other services dubbing it the "Chair Force" because so many of its people are behind desks. In response to questions from TIME on the list's contents and cost, the Air Force issued a statement Thursday saying the list contains only its "most critical needs." Lieutenant General Dave Deptula, the Air Force's top intel officer, says his service's needs "are severe and getting worse," and that the list reflects the gap "between where we are and where we need to be."


Highlighting the huge request is a proposal by the Air Force to trump its civilian leaders and buy twice as many F-22 jets as now planned, while hyping the threats to justify the buy. China and India are, in the Air Force's eyes, the 21st century equivalent of the Soviet Union, requiring billions in new aircraft that even a hawkish Republican President doesn't think are needed. More critically, every dollar spent on supersonic aircraft is a dollar that isn't spent on the kind of troops and materiel needed to wage the two irregular wars the nation is now fighting, and which many experts predict will be the kinds of wars fought for the next generation or two.


The military is hardly starving. The Pentagon's proposed 2009 Defense Budget is twice the size of the budget President Bush inherited from Bill Clinton. Even without the nearly $200 billion for the wars, the $515 billion tab is on par with the defense budgets of World War II. "Today, free-flowing funding has fundamentally undermined all budget discipline in the Pentagon," says Gordon Adams, who oversaw military spending from a senior post in the Clinton White House.


Take the fight over the F-22. The Pentagon has declared it wants to cap procurement at 183 planes, for $65 billion. But the Air Force wants 380 of them. "We think that [183] is the wrong number," General Bruce Carlson, the Air Force's top weapons buyer, told reporters at a Feb. 13 industry gathering. "We're committed to funding 380," he added. "We're building a program right now to do that." Defense Secretary Robert Gates called Air Force Secretary Michael Wynne after reading Carlson's comments in Aerospace Daily, a trade paper, and told him to remind Carlson who's the boss. (Wynne did, and issued a statement saying the Air Force "wholeheartedly supports" the Administration's proposal.)


Days earlier, Carlson said that today's U.S. Air Force "simply cannot fight and win against the fleet of airplanes that have been developed and are flying in India, China, and so forth," a claim questioned by many experts.

What is your point?

[Nukeman]

What is your point?

To have a point she would have to understand how the military works, all she know how to do
is stirr shit up and find article "CRITICLE" of the military as a a whole. Isn't she the one that has been talking about joining??? She has a lot to learn, but hey like most 17 year olds she knows everything in the known universe....

[LiberalNation]

There is no "point" per say. Just thought it was interesting and some here might want to comment on it.

[AFbombloader]

There is no "point" per say. Just thought it was interesting and some here might want to comment on it.

Things like this happen every year. We always hve a budget that is put in place years before. We realize there are areas that we will need money for and ask in a supplemental budget. Is it the Air Force's fault that noone else asked for everything they feel they needed? If you don't ask you will not recieve.
I can speak from experience that the Air Force needs new dormitory furniture as well as new dorms. I can show you pictures of my room here in South Korea if you like???

As to the rest of the items we are asking for, someone feels we need them. I think we should buy as many F-22's as we can. The F-15's they are replacing are old and are having issues that are grounding the fleet. The Air Force knows more than congress what we need and what we need more of.


AF

[theHawk]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/2008022...rEwojGv7MDW7oF

The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have worn down the nation's ground forces, stretching those serving in the Army and Marines and wearing out their gear at an unprecedented rate. So, it's no surprise that the nation's ground-pounders would be seeking the most from the ever-cooperative members of the House Armed Services Committee. For years, that Pentagon-pleasing panel has asked the services to send it a wish list - lawmakers prefer to call it an "unfunded requirements list" - of budget items they desire but which have not been approved by their penny-pinching civilian overseers, i.e. the Defense Secretary and the President.


Earlier this month, the Army stepped up to the plate and asked for $4 billion more than the $141 billion it is slated to receive in 2009. The Marines asked for $3 billion more than their proposed ration of $25 billion. The Navy asked for $5 billion to be added to its bottom line of $124 billion. But all those sums added together don't equal the - hold your breath, dear taxpayer - $19 billion that the Air Force wants over and above its $144 billion request.


A quick flip through the 11-page list turns up a $13 million "requirement" for dorm furniture - an item that may justify the other services dubbing it the "Chair Force" because so many of its people are behind desks. In response to questions from TIME on the list's contents and cost, the Air Force issued a statement Thursday saying the list contains only its "most critical needs." Lieutenant General Dave Deptula, the Air Force's top intel officer, says his service's needs "are severe and getting worse," and that the list reflects the gap "between where we are and where we need to be."


Highlighting the huge request is a proposal by the Air Force to trump its civilian leaders and buy twice as many F-22 jets as now planned, while hyping the threats to justify the buy. China and India are, in the Air Force's eyes, the 21st century equivalent of the Soviet Union, requiring billions in new aircraft that even a hawkish Republican President doesn't think are needed. More critically, every dollar spent on supersonic aircraft is a dollar that isn't spent on the kind of troops and materiel needed to wage the two irregular wars the nation is now fighting, and which many experts predict will be the kinds of wars fought for the next generation or two.


The military is hardly starving. The Pentagon's proposed 2009 Defense Budget is twice the size of the budget President Bush inherited from Bill Clinton. Even without the nearly $200 billion for the wars, the $515 billion tab is on par with the defense budgets of World War II. "Today, free-flowing funding has fundamentally undermined all budget discipline in the Pentagon," says Gordon Adams, who oversaw military spending from a senior post in the Clinton White House.


Take the fight over the F-22. The Pentagon has declared it wants to cap procurement at 183 planes, for $65 billion. But the Air Force wants 380 of them. "We think that [183] is the wrong number," General Bruce Carlson, the Air Force's top weapons buyer, told reporters at a Feb. 13 industry gathering. "We're committed to funding 380," he added. "We're building a program right now to do that." Defense Secretary Robert Gates called Air Force Secretary Michael Wynne after reading Carlson's comments in Aerospace Daily, a trade paper, and told him to remind Carlson who's the boss. (Wynne did, and issued a statement saying the Air Force "wholeheartedly supports" the Administration's proposal.)


Days earlier, Carlson said that today's U.S. Air Force "simply cannot fight and win against the fleet of airplanes that have been developed and are flying in India, China, and so forth," a claim questioned by many experts.

I read this idiot's tripe. Of course he makes no mention of how old the current fleet of aircraft are and how much they are being used in war.

For someone who sounds so concerned every tax dollar, maybe this scumbag should take a look at how much entitlements cost the taxpayers.

[theHawk]

Things like this happen every year. We always hve a budget that is put in place years before. We realize there are areas that we will need money for and ask in a supplemental budget. Is it the Air Force's fault that noone else asked for everything they feel they needed? If you don't ask you will not recieve.
I can speak from experience that the Air Force needs new dormitory furniture as well as new dorms. I can show you pictures of my room here in South Korea if you like???

As to the rest of the items we are asking for, someone feels we need them. I think we should buy as many F-22's as we can. The F-15's they are replacing are old and are having issues that are grounding the fleet. The Air Force knows more than congress what we need and what we need more of.


AF

I remember my Air Force dorms were infested with bats in the rooftops, and mold throughout the interiors.

But hey, this shitbag Mark Thompson will complain if the AF spends money to fix the problems in the living quarters.

[AFbombloader]

I remember my Air Force dorms were infested with bats in the rooftops, and mold throughout the interiors.

But hey, this shitbag Mark Thompson will complain if the AF spends money to fix the problems in the living quarters.

My dorm here is one of the nicer ones, but that would be expected since it is filled with E-6's. And we wtill have a suitemate that I share a kitchen and bathroom with. The sr enlisted ones are better than ours and the new airman's dorms are great. But the young men and women in the older dorms live in horrid conditions. But they are better than a tent or a foxhole (which is why I am in the Air Force). We have to deal with mold, inoperative heating (it is 31 here today), failing plumming, and furniture in disrepair. Should we continue to live like this? Would you Lib? If this was your dormitory would you want to live like this?

AF

[LiberalNation]

I can show you pictures of my room here in South Korea if you like???

Looks like the dorms at UofL except a little bigger.

Any of ya'll wana help me pick out which 11 by 15 room I want.