Question for Iraq war supporters

[Black Lance]

How much money, and how many lives of American service members, is a Democratic Iraq worth?

Please give an estimated number.

[avatar4321]

That's a different answer for everyone. How much is freedom and security worth?

I don't think it's the cost that's the problem. it's the fact that we have to spend billions on other useless government programs so we can't focus our national defense thats the problems.

[Gaffer]

I agree with Avatar on this.

[AFbombloader]

As do I.

Was it worth the money spent and live lost to have a free and democratic Japan and Germany? Or a free and democratic (sometimes autocratic) South Korea? Maybe we are not looking far enough in the future to see the benefit of what we are doing right now.

AF

[DragonStryk72]

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Usually it comes down to openness about the whole thing. Both in Vietnam, and again in the Iraq war, our reasoning for going to war were dishonest, and we did not listen to the advice of generals who knew what they were talking about.

The tactics of the Iraq war were a total bullocks, and we are paying for it now. We went ill-prepared and undermanned (not everyone got kevlar, blankets, and we only went in with half the forces the generals said they'd need to do it), under, if not directly false, then certainly disingenuine, and this has created morales troubles all over the place, mounted on top of the tactical errors.

"Give me Liberty, or give me Death"
"He who would sacrifice Liberty for security, deserves neither liberty, nor security"

[Classact]

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Usually it comes down to openness about the whole thing. Both in Vietnam, and again in the Iraq war, our reasoning for going to war were dishonest, and we did not listen to the advice of generals who knew what they were talking about.

There was no dishonest reasons presented for going to war with Iraq.

The tactics of the Iraq war were a total bullocks, and we are paying for it now. We went ill-prepared and undermanned (not everyone got kevlar, blankets, and we only went in with half the forces the generals said they'd need to do it), under, if not directly false, then certainly disingenuine, and this has created morales troubles all over the place, mounted on top of the tactical errors.
"Give me Liberty, or give me Death"
"He who would sacrifice Liberty for security, deserves neither liberty, nor security"

You sound like an armchair general. The military has never went to war with every soldier wearing Kevlar. We have never went to war with up-armored Humvees, Jeeps or OX carts prior to Iraq. The DOD had reorganized into a light highly mobile strike force manner of doing battle under the constraints of peacetime army. The concept is to use highly trained light force utilizing state of the art technology and armament as a force multiplier. Or, in other words, more bang for the buck. The problem once Baghdad was taken and the formal uniformed army was defeated was as simple as failure to issue new "rules of engagement" for the civil population. If you remember there was wide spread law breaking, looting and so on and our force stood and watched... in the absence of security the nation went into anarchy.

As for the debate question: When America goes to war we should remain engaged until we are victorious regardless of costs of human or other resources. To leave Iraq prior to Iraq being internally secure would assure another war. We involved ourselves there because it was and is in our national interests. To depart without securing our national interests would be ignorant.

[bullypulpit]

That's a different answer for everyone. How much is freedom and security worth?

I don't think it's the cost that's the problem. it's the fact that we have to spend billions on other useless government programs so we can't focus our national defense thats the problems.

Just whose freedom and security are you talking about? Certainly not ours, since Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 or Al Qaeda...at least not until after the US invasion of Iraq.

As for the useless government programs, which ones? The billions in unbid contracts to Halliburton, KBR, Blackwater, and other war profiteers?

[Black Lance]

That's a different answer for everyone. How much is freedom and security worth?

The answer might vary with the opinions of different people, but so far nobody has dared to answer the question as stated. How much money, which otherwise could be invested in our own national welfare, is a Democratic Iraq worth? How many American lives is having a Democratic government in Iraq worth? I'm not looking for an exact figure here, just a broad estimate. At what cost in blood and treasure would you say "enough, this just isn't worth it anymore!"

[LiberalNation]

Not one single penny or life. Screw Iraq, the people have to want democracy enough to fight for it on their own or it will never last. We can't give Iraq modern democracy and it wouldn't be to our benifit to do it anyway. Look at the people they vote in, anti-american presense to the hilt. Sadar even killed Americans and he was a main part of their elected government for quite awile.

[manu1959]

The answer might vary with the opinions of different people, but so far nobody has dared to answer the question as stated. How much money, which otherwise could be invested in our own national welfare, is a Democratic Iraq worth? How many American lives is having a Democratic government in Iraq worth? I'm not looking for an exact figure here, just a broad estimate. At what cost in blood and treasure would you say "enough, this just isn't worth it anymore!"

the money in iraq would not have been spent here.....it was borrowed to be used.....

as for is it worth it....no

should we have gone....no

however i believe in accountability....we fucked up....we have to fix our mistake....

[manu1959]

Just whose freedom and security are you talking about? Certainly not ours, since Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 or Al Qaeda...at least not until after the US invasion of Iraq.

As for the useless government programs, which ones? The billions in unbid contracts to Halliburton, KBR, Blackwater, and other war profiteers?

yes those same usless groups that helped the balkans and liberia....

[WRL]

How much money, and how many lives of American service members, is a Democratic Iraq worth?

Please give an estimated number.

The premise of the question is flawed, to be brutally honest. Once one life is sacrificed in combat, we owe it to those who have sacrificed to ensure that they didn't sacrifice in vain...

So till the Job is Done, and the Fallen Honored.

[WRL]

As do I.

Was it worth the money spent and live lost to have a free and democratic Japan and Germany? Or a free and democratic (sometimes autocratic) South Korea? Maybe we are not looking far enough in the future to see the benefit of what we are doing right now.

AF

Hooah, Outstanding answer!

[mundame]

How much money, and how many lives of American service members, is a Democratic Iraq worth?

Please give an estimated number.

I'm no longer an Iraq war supporter, but it's a good question.

Money? Not this much. The huge deficits and taxpayer costs and the associated cost of high oil because of the constant tension from the ever-ongoing war and the poor production in Iraq because we never won it --- all this may throw us into a bad recession with bad inflation, IMO.

It was a good idea to democratize Iraq if it could be done quickly and cheaply, but it couldn't. It was also a good idea to take down Saddam to show dictators that "regime change" was not operative rather than preserving them forever by "boxing them up."

So if we had left out as soon as we dug up Saddam, I think that would have been the right amount of money.



As for lives of American soldiers for democracy for Iraq?

None at all, of course. Iraqis aren't American taxpayers: why should they get Americans to fight for them? American soldiers should never be sent on humanitarian missions, IMO. Only to defeat our enemies, at need.

Thinking our military is available for humanitarian wars just leads to us getting bogged down in the endless, hopeless wars of Africa: Darfur, Congo, Kenya, Liberia, Zimbabwe. That is not in the American interest, nor is an endless war to democratize Iraq.

[WRL]

The US had a cease fire agreement with Iraq that was violated. Upholding our word and treaties are of the up-most importance.

Not to mention the invasions of Iran, Kuwait, the amassing of troops on the Saudi border, that would only give him 6o/ 7o% of of the worlds principal resource.

Or the mass graves, his using of chemical weapons on civilians and military targets.

Oh and lets not for get his charitable actions of paying 25,000 to the families of suicide bombers, and calling the victims of 9/11 the perpetrators.

The cost of oil will go down drastically once Iraq is settled, and we have an ally, remember it took the US 13 years of which we went through the Articles of Confederation, things like Shay's rebellion, before finally settling on the Constitution and electing George Washington...

Last time talk like this ruled, WWII was the result... It's the UN's job, but they are corrupt, and therefore, to avoid the mistakes of history, someone has to stand firm.