Record-high ratio of Americans in prison

[JohnDoe]

First offender drug possession for personal use never results in jail time unless there is a more serious crime involved.

The crime for illegal immigrants should be working without authorization... a felony tax evasion. The crime is equal for the employer.. tax evasion and violating other US federal and state laws.

Entering the country without a visa is not a serious crime but evading tax should be.

Well, I wish I could agree with your first statement, but I just read a case recently about a young....18, very smart and ambitious student, a supposed shining star.... that had 3 jays on him i believe, but within so many yards from a school or playground, was being pursued by the DA for a 20 year sentence, which their state law allowed because of the possession being within so many blocks or within 2 miles from a school/playground zone..... I was SHOCKED and appalled!


jd

[Sitarro]

If jail was a zero cost to taxpayers then it would not be a problem how many people are in jail but a concern of those families that have relatives there.

I suggest that jail should be punishment and that it should sustain itself and all associated costs of its operation. This can easily be accomplished through using jails as food production for themselves and poor within the state. Using prison labor to produce electricity even if they have to walk 16 hours a day in a squirrel cage. Jobs in jail should support good behavior and those who behave well should be learning and then educating neighborhoods they came from as part of their punishment.

Put the law violators knee deep in pig shit and let them live in the loft over cows to keep warm in the winter... no TV, no creature comforts at all without good behavior. Want electricity then get on a bicycle hooked up to a generator and start pumping.

Here is the Sheriff that gets it done right.......

http://edition.cnn.com/US/9907/27/tough.sheriff/


Arizona criminals find jail too in-'tents'


Arpaio has dramatically cut prison costs since becoming sheriff seven years ago


July 27, 1999
Web posted at: 2:00 p.m. EDT (1800 GMT)

In this story:

Pink underwear and bedtime stories

RELATED STORIES, SITES

MARICOPA COUNTY, Arizona (CNN) -- The tent city looks like a military camp in the desert, with thick canvas sleeping quarters spreading out in a remote area of Arizona.

The inhabitants, however, are not soldiers, but residents of an unusual, some say brutal, prison run by legendary lawman Joe Arpaio, called the toughest sheriff in the West.

For the Maricopa County sheriff, who opened the nation's largest tent prison in 1993, saving taxpayer pennies matters more than comforting convicted felons.

"We took away coffee, that saved $150,000 a year. Why do you need coffee in jail?" says Arpaio, patrolling the dusty, barren grounds. "Switched to bologna sandwiches, that saved half a million dollars a year."

Arpaio makes inmates pay for their meals, which some say are worse than those for the guard dogs. Canines eat $1.10 worth of food a day, the inmate 90 cents, the sheriff says. "I'm very proud of that too."

Critics rail against harsh conditions in the prison, where temperatures can top 100 degrees.

[theHawk]

It is a FACT that crime goes down when the poor have jobs.

It is a FACT that crime goes down when you have effective schools.


just something to ponder.....

And I am willing to bet that a majority of those in prisons threw away their taxpayer given education. I feel no sympathy for those types at all. I grew up and went to school with a largely Mexican population. Many of them threw away their high school education because they were too busy playing wannabe gangster or wanting to do drugs. The school itself had nothing to do with it. I did just fine in the same school. The school officials said "don't do drugs", and "don't get envolved in gangs". Well, alot of those drop outs and losers made their decision and I have no doubt that many of them are in prison.

This problem has nothing to do with education and jobs, and everything to do with the wannabe gangster culture that Mexicans and blacks grow up in.

[JohnDoe]

And I am willing to bet that a majority of those in prisons threw away their taxpayer given education. I feel no sympathy for those types at all. I grew up and went to school with a largely Mexican population. Many of them threw away their high school education because they were too busy playing wannabe gangster or wanting to do drugs. The school itself had nothing to do with it. I did just fine in the same school. The school officials said "don't do drugs", and "don't get envolved in gangs". Well, alot of those drop outs and losers made their decision and I have no doubt that many of them are in prison.

This problem has nothing to do with education and jobs, and everything to do with the wannabe gangster culture that Mexicans and blacks grow up in.

OK, let's presume that I agree with you....it could be that i lived a sheltered, middle class life, in a land far, far away from what you just described.

-Why has crime gone up and being a gangster more reputable and worthy of attention by these youth than holding a good paying job and fitting in to society, with less fear of being killed?

-What is your proposal to reduce these kinds of thugs?

-How can you dispute figures on crime reduction when unemployment among the poor is low, and higher crimes when unemployment among the poor is high? I see a correlation....maybe I am wrong in this logic, but this is how it appears to me?

jd

[theHawk]

OK, let's presume that I agree with you....it could be that i lived a sheltered, middle class life, in a land far, far away from what you just described.

-Why has crime gone up and being a gangster more reputable and worthy of attention by these youth than holding a good paying job and fitting in to society, with less fear of being killed?

-What is your proposal to reduce these kinds of thugs?

-How can you dispute figures on crime reduction when unemployment among the poor is low, and higher crimes when unemployment among the poor is high? I see a correlation....maybe I am wrong in this logic, but this is how it appears to me?

jd

Im not disputing that crime would be lower when there is less unemployment. What I am saying is that there are alot of people that are unemployed because they threw away their education when they were young.

The only thing I "propose" is these families and kids get their heads out of their asses and take advantage of the opportunity this country gives them by means of a free education.

Beyond that, its not up to us to babysit or raise people's children. I am not into socialism, so I am certainly not in favor of some silly government program to 'solve the problem'. It can be solved easily by those people themselves. But if they are unwilling to help themselves then I see no reason to waste time or money on them.

[JohnDoe]

Im not disputing that crime would be lower when there is less unemployment. What I am saying is that there are alot of people that are unemployed because they threw away their education when they were young.

The only thing I "propose" is these families and kids get their heads out of their asses and take advantage of the opportunity this country gives them by means of a free education.

Beyond that, its not up to us to babysit or raise people's children. I am not into socialism, so I am certainly not in favor of some silly government program to 'solve the problem'. It can be solved easily by those people themselves. But if they are unwilling to help themselves then I see no reason to waste time or money on them.

but it ends up costing you more, on average 24k a person in jail per year there, and RI was 44k a year....that is the way it is now, and unless major changes take place across our country, we will spend more on incarceration than on educating our children in each and every state.... THAT is just unacceptable to me!

So, i guess i stick with something has to be done, and i am not saying it necessary means spending more money, but maybe even spending less money, but more effectively.

jd

[theHawk]

but it ends up costing you more, on average 24k a person in jail per year there, and RI was 44k a year....that is the way it is now, and unless major changes take place across our country, we will spend more on incarceration than on educating our children in each and every state.... THAT is just unacceptable to me!

So, i guess i stick with something has to be done, and i am not saying it necessary means spending more money, but maybe even spending less money, but more effectively.

jd

You're working on the assumption that spending more money to "educate" these thugs is actually going to work. Here's a tidbit you may not know about - some people actually don't want to learn, and don't want to work. I'd rather have tax dollars spent on prisons to keep these thugs and criminals off the streets. It also sends the message that if they turn to crime they will do the time.

There is really only two things that tax dollars should be going towards - National security from foreign threats, and the justice system to include prisons to keep our home grown thugs from raping and killing our citizens. The rest of the shit in our budget can be put on the chopping block, save a few federal programs.

[theHawk]

we will spend more on incarceration than on educating our children in each and every state.... THAT is just unacceptable to me!

Typical liberal ploy. Compare some high budget costs to that of education. First of all, the prison system keep people like PEDOPHILES off the streets from RAPING our children. But even that sort of stuff aside, education is usually funded by local districts by property taxes. It is not the job of the federal government to educate its citizenry or to provide funding for it.

[manu1959]

Wow, very nice. I guess it's not possible that the majority of illegal aliens come here to work legitimate jobs and not to commit crimes. No way Jose! It would downright rational to say something like that!

you mean immigration felon.....and how can the job be ligitimate if the person is not a citizen and no one is paying taxes on this job to fund the programs this person is using....

[JohnDoe]

You're working on the assumption that spending more money to "educate" these thugs is actually going to work. Here's a tidbit you may not know about - some people actually don't want to learn, and don't want to work. I'd rather have tax dollars spent on prisons to keep these thugs and criminals off the streets. It also sends the message that if they turn to crime they will do the time.

No, I am not making the assumption that it will cost more to make our educational system stronger and more effective for those with less or for those with more....

And when you say that some kids just don't want to learn...

I say how come?

What in their lives have made them this way and what, if anything, can we do to change it? I know, this might sound like some sappy girl thing or liberal thing, but I honestly believe that if we do not figure out a way to get to the root of the problem then we will continue to waste tax dollars incarcerating more and more Americans and making our taxes go higher and higher and higher, and more to be spent on us incarcerating these people than we spend on our entire educational system state by state....?

That is JUST PLAIN WRONG, the hawk, and i can't get over that...

besides the fact that law abiding, tax pay citizens deserve more....more than locking people up, but a community that is safe in the first place, with low crime rates.....and unless the root conditions of crime are addressed we are wasting our money imo.

jd

[manu1959]

No, I am not making the assumption that it will cost more to make our educational system stronger and more effective for those with less or for those with more....

And when you say that some kids just don't want to learn...

I say how come?

What in their lives have made them this way and what, if anything, can we do to change it? I know, this might sound like some sappy girl thing or liberal thing, but I honestly believe that if we do not figure out a way to get to the root of the problem then we will continue to waste tax dollars incarcerating more and more Americans and making our taxes go higher and higher and higher, and more to be spent on us incarcerating these people than we spend on our entire educational system state by state....?

That is JUST PLAIN WRONG, the hawk, and i can't get over that...

besides the fact that law abiding, tax pay citizens deserve more....more than locking people up, but a community that is safe in the first place, with low crime rates.....and unless the root conditions of crime are addressed we are wasting our money imo.

jd

if the parents are interested in education the kids will be......

[JohnDoe]

you mean immigration felon.....and how can the job be ligitimate if the person is not a citizen and no one is paying taxes on this job to fund the programs this person is using....

Ohhhh, but if they broke the law and stole someone's SSAN number, they are paying taxes!!!

[theHawk]

No, I am not making the assumption that it will cost more to make our educational system stronger and more effective for those with less or for those with more....

And when you say that some kids just don't want to learn...

I say how come?

What in their lives have made them this way and what, if anything, can we do to change it? I know, this might sound like some sappy girl thing or liberal thing, but I honestly believe that if we do not figure out a way to get to the root of the problem then we will continue to waste tax dollars incarcerating more and more Americans and making our taxes go higher and higher and higher, and more to be spent on us incarcerating these people than we spend on our entire educational system state by state....?

That is JUST PLAIN WRONG, the hawk, and i can't get over that...

besides the fact that law abiding, tax pay citizens deserve more....more than locking people up, but a community that is safe in the first place, with low crime rates.....and unless the root conditions of crime are addressed we are wasting our money imo.

jd

I already gave you the answer to 'why' they throw away their education. I said its based on their thug culture that they grow up in. When are you going to get it through your head, we don't have to do anything, they are the ones that have to change themselves.

Now, I agree with you that its unsettling how much the prison system costs taxpayers. But what is your solution? Cut federal spending and free half the inmates early from their sentences? Personally I think we should make the prisoners pay off their own imprisonment, but libs like you would scream that its "slave labor."

[theHawk]

Ohhhh, but if they broke the law and stole someone's SSAN number, they are paying taxes!!!

No, it means they are collecting taxes and welfare checks. WTF are you thinking?

[manu1959]

Ohhhh, but if they broke the law and stole someone's SSAN number, they are paying taxes!!!

actually they employer would be they would have to file a tax return to pay taxes....