11 Aboard Navy Sub Disciplined for Fraud, Cheating

[LiberalNation]

Don't look now, here's another troop hatin story.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,336208,00.html

SAN DIEGO — Eleven officers and sailors from a San Diego-based Navy submarine have been disciplined for falsifying tests on a nuclear reactor and cheating on officer advancement exams.

A Navy report released Friday said crew members of the attack sub Hampton falsified weekly chemical tests as far back as November 2006. The tests involved the highly pure water used to cool the sub's reactor.

Improper chemical levels can lead to erosion.

However, no damage to the reactor core was found when the sub returned to San Diego after a seven-month deployment to the Pacific last year.

The sub's commanding officer and chief engineer were dismissed.

[actsnoblemartin]

Just once id like to see a positive story on the war, or our troops, are you always this negative, and joyful when others make a mistake?

Don't look now, here's another troop hatin story.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,336208,00.html

SAN DIEGO — Eleven officers and sailors from a San Diego-based Navy submarine have been disciplined for falsifying tests on a nuclear reactor and cheating on officer advancement exams.

A Navy report released Friday said crew members of the attack sub Hampton falsified weekly chemical tests as far back as November 2006. The tests involved the highly pure water used to cool the sub's reactor.

Improper chemical levels can lead to erosion.

However, no damage to the reactor core was found when the sub returned to San Diego after a seven-month deployment to the Pacific last year.

The sub's commanding officer and chief engineer were dismissed.

[gabosaurus]

Just once id like to see a positive story on the war, or our troops, are you always this negative, and joyful when others make a mistake?

A positive story on American citizens being killed for no logical reason?

And yes, we are joyful when you make a mistake

[NATO AIR]

Such things are not common but do happen when people take shortcuts because of the traditional naval deployment schedule which offers precious little free time and even less "make up" time. When people's careers are on the line, when they get cocky about their own abilities and their people and when they don't handle pressure well... this happens.

Saw this more times than I wanted in the Navy. Yet in the end, because of a whistleblower or a tragic accident (or near-tragic one), the fools who "gundeck" (as we call it in the Navy) get caught one way or another.

Has nothing to do with Bush or WOT. Has everything to do with not everybody is cut out for that line of work and that kind of responsibility.

[rppearso]

Such things are not common but do happen when people take shortcuts because of the traditional naval deployment schedule which offers precious little free time and even less "make up" time. When people's careers are on the line, when they get cocky about their own abilities and their people and when they don't handle pressure well... this happens.

Saw this more times than I wanted in the Navy. Yet in the end, because of a whistleblower or a tragic accident (or near-tragic one), the fools who "gundeck" (as we call it in the Navy) get caught one way or another.

Has nothing to do with Bush or WOT. Has everything to do with not everybody is cut out for that line of work and that kind of responsibility.

Yet the military almost always waits until something like this happens before dismissing/discharging someone who "isent cut out for it", the whole thing is a total joke, I can bet on at least some of these instances someone came to a commander and said im not cut out for this I want out and everyone knows the answer to this dont all speak at once "you signed the dotted line" lets wait until someone gets killed or there is major media coverage then we will do something about it. The whole thing is a joke, you have people running these things that may be on 4 hrs sleep or whatever, it is a wonder that nothing catasrophic has happened or at least nothing we know about that does not mean it dident happen.

The thing about internal nuke reactor corrosion is you are not going to know it even taking it into port because they dont strip everything down to the reactor core because its to dangerous just like in nuke power plants, no one will enter the core room once the plant is commissioned they just fill it with concrete when its decommisioned.

[5stringJeff]

The thing about internal nuke reactor corrosion is you are not going to know it even taking it into port because they dont strip everything down to the reactor core because its to dangerous just like in nuke power plants, no one will enter the core room once the plant is commissioned they just fill it with concrete when its decommisioned.

I have a family member who works on these reactors. They perform all kinds of maintenance in port, specifically so there won't be a major incident at sea.

[rppearso]

I have a family member who works on these reactors. They perform all kinds of maintenance in port, specifically so there won't be a major incident at sea.

Ok, so. I can almost gaurentee they dont pull the core to inspect it because its so radioactive. If you cant pull it and look at it you never know the full extent of damage just from NDT that is why the O&M on these things is so important but I would guess the engineers and designers built in tons of safety factors to account for dumb ass commanders pushing nuke officers to do dangerous crap, I would imagine that would take things to a whole new level of redundancy, I could just imagine the hazard analysis before they commission a sub, well what if the dumb ass commander did this oh yea we better put in this protection lol.

[Gunny]

Ok, so. I can almost gaurentee they dont pull the core to inspect it because its so radioactive. If you cant pull it and look at it you never know the full extent of damage just from NDT that is why the O&M on these things is so important but I would guess the engineers and designers built in tons of safety factors to account for dumb ass commanders pushing nuke officers to do dangerous crap, I would imagine that would take things to a whole new level of redundancy, I could just imagine the hazard analysis before they commission a sub, well what if the dumb ass commander did this oh yea we better put in this protection lol.

Do you have a point to make other than the fact that you're a blithering idiot, or what?

The people who fucked up got burned for it. Y'know, just like when stupid civilians fuck up and get fired for being stupid civilians?

You have no point.

[rppearso]

Do you have a point to make other than the fact that you're a blithering idiot, or what?

The people who fucked up got burned for it. Y'know, just like when stupid civilians fuck up and get fired for being stupid civilians?

You have no point.

The fact that you dident see my point and instead just made a flame shows how dense you are. The point is people in the military tend to be pushed harder and work longer hours than there civilian counter parts which leads to cutting corners and screw ups that are derived from crappy qualitys of live. I dont disagree that everyone makes mistakes but when you ride someones ass and give them 4 hours of sleep you open yourself up for f** ups, especially when you are dealing with a nuke reactor. So maybe you can cut the flames and just ask the question.

[AFbombloader]

The fact that you dident see my point and instead just made a flame shows how[/SIZE] dense you are. The point is people in the military tend to be pushed harder and work longer hours than there civilian counter parts which leads to cutting corners and screw ups that are derived from crappy qualitys of live. I dont disagree that everyone makes mistakes but when you ride someones ass and give them 4 hours of sleep you open yourself up for f** ups, especially when you are dealing with a nuke reactor. So maybe you can cut the flames and just ask the question.

All I have to say is prove it. Prove that they "cut corners" because they were pushed and only got 4 hours of sleep. Prove that it is because of the "crappy quality of life". Prove any of what you were saying! Better yet, prove that they didn't do this because they just didn't want to do the work and were lazy. That is more likely the case that anything else I can think of. Yes they screwed up and yes they were disciplined and/or removed form their posts. To go back to you saying "dumb ass commanders pushing nuke officers to do dangerous crap", again PROVE IT. You can't, so stick with the facts at hand.

AF

[rppearso]

All I have to say is prove it. Prove that they "cut corners" because they were pushed and only got 4 hours of sleep. Prove that it is because of the "crappy quality of life". Prove any of what you were saying! Better yet, prove that they didn't do this because they just didn't want to do the work and were lazy. That is more likely the case that anything else I can think of. Yes they screwed up and yes they were disciplined and/or removed form their posts. To go back to you saying "dumb ass commanders pushing nuke officers to do dangerous crap", again PROVE IT. You can't, so stick with the facts at hand.

AF

You cant prove he was being a lazy bum either and I think there is a much higher likely hood that they were being pushed into sleep deprivation or at a minimum being thretened into loss of favorable social activities hence decreaseing there quality of life.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...7/MN292786.DTL

Here is an article on military sleep deprivation, stress and fatiuge. Anyone who has been to basic training knows you cant think straight when your stressed out and sleep deprived especially complex tasks I could barely even tie my shoe but when I have plenty of sleep low stress and my life is in order I can do many complex tasks.

[Gaffer]

You cant prove he was being a lazy bum either and I think there is a much higher likely hood that they were being pushed into sleep deprivation or at a minimum being thretened into loss of favorable social activities hence decreaseing there quality of life.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...7/MN292786.DTL

Here is an article on military sleep deprivation, stress and fatiuge. Anyone who has been to basic training knows you cant think straight when your stressed out and sleep deprived especially complex tasks I could barely even tie my shoe but when I have plenty of sleep low stress and my life is in order I can do many complex tasks.

Your back to whining again. Poor boy didn't get to sleep when he was in the NG. Got a news flash for you. The real world doesn't care if you sleep, or if your comfortable, or if you eat, or if you have a social life. Try going without sleep for two or three months at a time, and break it up into 2 hour shifts. Eat some canned bread and crackers and a cup of instant coffee and carry a 60 pound pack through rough terrain all day. And you don't get a bed or cot to sleep on, just where ever you stop when it gets dark. Do that and I'll listen to you whine. I'll also bitch slap you every time you do.

[AFbombloader]

You cant prove he was being a lazy bum either and I think there is a much higher likely hood that they were being pushed into sleep deprivation or at a minimum being thretened into loss of favorable social activities hence decreaseing there quality of life.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...7/MN292786.DTL

Here is an article on military sleep deprivation, stress and fatiuge. Anyone who has been to basic training knows you cant think straight when your stressed out and sleep deprived especially complex tasks I could barely even tie my shoe but when I have plenty of sleep low stress and my life is in order I can do many complex tasks.

How many commanders do you know? I have known many in my time in the AF and none are able to push anyone to the extreme you are refering to. There are legal limits to everything in the military and they have to abide by them. I can go to the IG and the Staff Judge Advocate if I feel I am being made to do anything dangerous or illegal. And all of us have the same opportiunity. And they cannot know who is making the complaints against them because they are not in the chain of command at the base. To quote Detective Friday..."Just the Facts"

AF

[NATO AIR]

Not knowing the backstory, I can only go on what I've seen on a nuclear aircraft carrier in their reactor dept. as well as general experience in the squadron community (where people often work 18 hour days underway and are expected to be "on point" no matter what while maintaining aircraft), the engineering community and flight deck crews, etc. The big problem in the Navy now re: reactors is that the school in Charleston, SC is a joke... they take these kids for 2 years, train them on a sub down there for nearly a year, treat them like they're on deployment for half that time with the deployment watches and the hot racking (now and then just to give them a taste of it)... big deal right? Well, the issue is the qualification boards they have to memorize an extraordinary amount of info for... which violates one of the key commandments of the Navy in the first place... which is...

YOU DON'T MEMORIZE SHIT!

We would get screamed at and have our liberty curtailed if we were ever caught memorizing something like a maintenance cycle on gear, or the hazmat steps for a particular product, etc. As our chiefs would tell us, memorizing is for smart asses who aren't team players. You forget one step and somebody dies.

Yet they expect these "nuke" kids to memorize all this stuff, as if its some sort of mental challenge to differentiate them from the rest of the fleet. Totally dumb! They need to understand it more than anything else. The Navy keeps forgetting that, so does the Air Force.

Anyway, they spend days studying for these qual cert boards and then they get out to the fleet.. whether that be a sub or a nuclear aircraft carrier... and they're told by their chain of command... well, that was nice what you spent 2 years learning... its fucking useless out here in the fleet by the way!

The kids have to spend months re-qualifying on new platforms after spending nearly a year doing it already and a year before that going to school to do it. Their morale is further made worse by the restrictive rules on their liberty and personal options due to not being qualified as well as working 18-20 hour days, occasionally even in port when everyone else is getting off by at least 5 pm.

So am I surprised to see people cut corners? Nope. Half those nukes don't want to be "Nukes" anymore, I truly believed many of them on the Lincoln who said they wanted to go to Iraq. The only redeeming quality of it for some of them is the money (extremely high bonuses for nukes).

It has nothing to do with the war on terror or politics or even laziness.. its generally good kids getting sold a bad bill of goods by a Navy that eats its young religiously and rewards the few who survive with $75K bonuses to re-up after six years. (In the nuclear field at least).

Add in a totally risk-averse leadership style now (make one mistake as a CO or department head and your career is likely over) and you've unfortunately got some commanders and senior NCO's who fool themselves into thinking they'll get away with gundecking "just this once".

I know, I saw it repeatedly while I was on the Kitty Hawk from 2003-2006 supervising ship maintenance in port in Yokosuka. Its too powerful a temptation for most to ignore. They just don't have enough time in the world (or manpower for that matter) to do everything the rules expect them to most of the time.