I would love to see this movie
Senior Member
I would love to see this movie
Gunny's nightmare
“And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.”Originally Posted by Hagbard Celine
The problem with your post is that the debate has already taken place. ID has been exposed as pseudoscience unequivocally. The problem is that they do still need to sell tickets to that ID "museum" they built out in corn land so I guess a few people are still grasping at these straws.I don't know why. It seems like a waste of time to beat a dead horse. That's just me though.
Nice elitist attitude Hag.
Hahaha! LULzzzzz
What are you talking about? This is nonsense. Evolution has the entire fossil record, genetics, radio-carbon dating and biochemistry to back it up and supply ample fodder for experimentation.
ID has a failed philosophical proposition = FAIL.
Where are you coming from?
Gunny's nightmare
Actually evolution has a partial fossil record, revealing huge gaps between species types, which is best explained by a "designer" making major changes, not small increments, as would be required by evolutionary theory.
Hahaha! LULzzzzz
No, it's best explained by the fact that the fossils either weren't formed or haven't been found yet.
Nothing in the history of the world has ever been factually explained by magic or any other supernatural explanation. Why would bio-diversity be any different?
Gunny's nightmare
These “intermediate” fossils have to have been formed. It's statistically impossible for them not to be. If they have not been found yet then why do you claim that the debate is finished?
No one is claiming magic. That’s a non sequitur.
The existence of God has of course been explained by facts: The fact that witnesses have documented supernatural activities. The fact that life exists. The fact that life would not occur without unique properties of water. The fact that you feel consciousness.
Hahaha! LULzzzzz
But all of the things you've described are natural and are possible because of the natural laws of the universe. There is no reason to suspect that there is anything supernatural about the world we live in. Rather, the logical assumption is that we just haven't figured it all out yet. Magic, Supernatural "Creators," etc., that's the non-sequitur. There has never been anything to lead us to believe that there is anything in existence, which does not have a natural explanation.
Gunny's nightmare
If we haven't figured it out yet, then why claim the debate is over?
Scoundrel
So evolution is 100% absolutely, beyond a shadow of a doubt true, but the Earth ate your homework, so you can't prove it?
"Lighght"
- This 'poem' was bought and paid for with $2,250 of YOUR money.
Name one thing the government does better than the private sector and I'll show you something that requires the use of force to accomplish.
left coast isolationist
can you link me up to the fosil record and genetic liniage of where the oooooze came from that created the first being that humans evloved from.....
thanks so much....
"I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is."
~Albert Camus
Hahaha! LULzzzzz
I haven't made the claim that evolution is "100 percent absolutely, blah, blah true." Neither has anyone else. What it is, is the best theory we have based on the material evidence at hand. It fits in perfectly with all the other sciences. Genetics backs it up. Chemistry backs it up. Geology backs it up. Physics backs it up. Paleontology backs it up. What more do you need? And what has convinced you that the supernatural has any place in the debate when the supernatural is untestable and completely undocumented in every other facet of human knowledge?
When electricity was first being tested, they didn't write it off as supernatural, they made a lightbulb. Why would this be any different? It's a question about the natural world--how did biodiversity occur? Why would the answer be supernatural? It makes absolutely no logical sense to make the jump to a "Creator."
Smitten Senior Admin
If evolution is not 100% true, how can (as you have said), the debate be over?I haven't made the claim that evolution is "100 percent absolutely, blah, blah true." Neither has anyone else. What it is, is the best theory we have based on the material evidence at hand.
...
After the game, the king and the pawn go into the same box - Author unknown
“Unfortunately, the truth is now whatever the media say it is”
-Abbey
Scoundrel
So what happened to 'the debate is over?' Are you admitting that evolution isn't absolutely true, in contradiction to your earlier statements? If so, then what is so heretical about a questioning its validity?
As to your questions, let me say this. If you found a very smoothed out rock that was the exact likeness of Abraham Lincoln lying around, would you conclude that it had eroded in an astronomically coincidental way, or would you conclude that it had been intelligently designed? Given that, how can you look at the vast complexities of life: the eye, the DNA molecule, the brain, and then state with near absolute certainty that none of it was designed and that it could only have happened through an astronomical string of astronomical coincidences.
As for your electricity question, electricity isn't life. We saw electricity and we wondered what caused it, so we discovered charge, static, voltage, etc. At that point, we could, with near absolute certainty, point at, say, a battery or a generator and say, "The electricity is coming from there and here's why." All our modern technology, on the other hand, is unable to artificially reproduce even the basest building blocks of life. Even a virus, which isn't technically alive, is too complicated for us, so why then, is it considered not only plausible, but in fact the only possible solution, that these things simply sprang up out of the ground spontaneously without something there to 'build' them? We have no life generator or battery to point to and say, "There, that's where life came from and here's why." In fact, in contrast to electricity, which is generated at random millions of times every second around the world, there has never been an observed instance of life being spontaneously created. We instead have a pile of very old rocks with imprints of ancient life on them. We can't even study their DNA, just what they look like. From that, a guess is the best we can muster. However, atheists have propagated this theory as being the only possible correct one based on an unprovable assumption, namely that we are the only intelligence in existence. Mighty arrogant, I think. Einstein and Newton believed in God, and believed that they were unlocking the secrets to His creation. Why then, must modern scientists insist on begin all discussions with, "Assume there is no God, then..." much like the astronomers of the early Renaissance started all of there discussions with, "Assume the Earth is the center of the universe, then...?" It's the same thing. It's intellectually dishonest, and the zealotry occurs when they shout down anybody who even suggests that maybe this Darwin thing isn't as true as some people once thought, not when somebody suggests that maybe they should toss out the base assumption that there is no God.
"Lighght"
- This 'poem' was bought and paid for with $2,250 of YOUR money.
Name one thing the government does better than the private sector and I'll show you something that requires the use of force to accomplish.
Hahaha! LULzzzzz
Because there's no such thing as magic. It's illogical and unproductive to try and force a debate where there isn't one. The consensus is that lifeforms have gradually changed over time to reach the state they are in presently and are continuing to change. Genetics supports it. The fossil record supports it. Logic supports it. Barring some unforeseen smoking gun, this is the body of knowledge we'll continue to build on. We certainly won't scrap it to take another look at the Genesis story for no reason other than to try to affirm a few fringe people.
Last edited by Hagbard Celine; 04-18-2008 at 11:38 AM.
Gunny's nightmare
This is the third time that you've brought up magic, yet no one has bought that straw man. It's time to man up on this and admit that the debate is far from over.
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