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  1. #1
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    Default The Noahide Movement

    The Noahide Movement is a quickly growing phenomenon. It is theocratic in nature, and in my opinion should be avoided if at all possible.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noahide_Laws
    According to rabbinic Judaism, as expressed in the Talmud, the Noahide Laws apply to all humanity through mankind's descent from one paternal ancestor who in Hebrew tradition is called Noah (the head of the only family to survive during The Flood). In Judaism, בני נח B'nei Noah (Hebrew, "Descendants of Noah", "Children of Noah") refers to all of mankind.[citation needed]

    The Talmud also states: "Righteous people of all nations have a share in the world to come" (Sanhedrin 105a). Any non-Jew who lives according to these laws is regarded as one of "the righteous among the gentiles". Maimonides writes that this refers to those who have acquired knowledge of God and act in accordance with the Noahide laws out of obedience to Him. According to what scholars consider to be the most accurate texts of the Mishneh Torah, Maimonides continues on to say that anyone who upholds the Noahide laws only because they appear logical is not one of the "righteous among the nations," but rather he is one of the wise among them. The more prolific versions of the Mishneh Torah say of such a person: "..nor is he one of the wise among them."[citation needed]

    According to the Biblical narrative, the Deluge covered the whole world killing every surface-dwelling creature except Noah, his family and the creatures of the ark. After the flood, God sealed a covenant with Noah with the following admonitions (Genesis 9):

    Food: "Also, flesh with the life -the blood- in it do not eat." (9:4)
    Murder: "I will also inquire about your blood, your life, from all animals, and from each human I will inquire about his brother's blood. Who sheds the blood of man, by man his blood will be shed, because in the image of God was man made."
    The Talmud (tractate Sanhedrin 56a/b, quoting Tosefta Sanhedrin 9:4) states that the instruction to not eat "flesh with the life" was given to Noah, and that Adam and Eve had already received six other commandments. Adam and Eve were not enjoined from eating from a living animal since they were forbidden to eat any animal.[7] The remaining six are exegetically derived from a seemingly superfluous sentence in Genesis 2:16.

    Judaism holds that gentiles (or goyim "non-Jews [literally 'Nations']") are not only not obligated to adhere to all the laws of the Torah (indeed, they are forbidden to fulfill some laws, such as the keeping of the Sabbath in the exact same manner as Israel[8]). Rabbinic Judaism and its modern-day descendants discourage proselytization. The Noahide Laws are regarded as the way through which non-Jews can have a direct and meaningful relationship with God or at least comply with the minimal requisites of civilization and of divine law.[citation needed]
    I would suggest that any curious person do their own extensive research.

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search

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    THis is the noahide opinion of jesus, from an official noahide site.

    http://www.noahide.com/yeshu.htm
    Who Was Jesus?
    The Bible gave a warning about a dangerous, false prophet who would arise to test our faith in G-d. In Deuteronomy 13, G-d describes this false prophet as a member of the Jewish people (v. 2, 7) who would tell true prophecies and would have the power of miracles. G-d Himself would give this false prophet the power to perform miracles and reveal prophecy, but the false prophet would try to seduce the people away from G-d's Law and towards strange gods unknown to Judaism. The purpose would be to test whether we are truly committed to living under the Law, or whether we will be dazzled and fall for the temptation to join a false path to salvation (v. 3-6, 7-8, 11). In this Biblical passage, G-d repeatedly commands the Jews to kill this false prophet, lest the evil spread and destroy many souls.
    In Deuteronomy 17, this false prophet is also described as someone who would rebel against the authority of the judges of the Jewish people, and who should be put to death for his rebelliousness (v. 8-13, esp. v. 12). Who are the judges? The highest court in Israel was the Sanhedrin, which was established by Moses (Exodus 18:13-26; Numbers 11:16-29), and which lasted more than 15 centuries. The members of the Sanhedrin were the rabbis known as "Pharisees" (Pirushim, "those with the explanation"). G-d gave permanent authority to these judges to interpret the Law and G-d's Word, and it is a commandment to follow their decisions without turning even slightly to the right or the left (Deut. 17:11). But the false prophet would challenge the authority of the Sanhedrin, thus revealing himself to be an evil man.
    Permanent authority.

    In the book of the prophet Daniel, this false prophet is described as a king (the eleventh horn on a terrible beast) who would wage war against the Jews (the "holy ones"; see Deut. 14:2 on this term) and would change the Law including the calendar and the holidays (Daniel 7:8, 20-25). Elsewhere, this false prophet is described as a king who would disregard the G-d of his fathers, exalting himself as a god and giving honor to this new god-head (Daniel 11:36-39).

    The man known today as "Jesus" fulfilled all these prophecies. He became a "king" (over the Christian church) who changed the original Law, doing away with the Hebrew calendar and the Biblical holidays (Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, Sukkos the Festival of Tabernacles, Passover, etc.). He disregarded the one, infinite G-d of the Hebrew Bible in favor of a new "trinity" that included himself. And he repeatedly broke the Law by committing terrible sins, while openly challenging the G-d-given authority of the rabbis of the Sanhedrin.

    Naturally, Jesus did sometimes pretend to respect the Law, but whenever he thought he could get away with it, he turned right around and broke that same Law. In Matthew 5:17-19, he declared that he came to fulfill the Law, and in Matthew 23:1-3 he defended the authority of the rabbis. But the rest of the time, he rebelled against the Law—thus showing that his occasional words of piety were meant only to hide his evil agenda. The following sins of Jesus are recorded in the "New Testament":

    Jesus repudiated the laws of kosher food (Mark 7:18-19). [Compare this to the prophet Daniel's strict adherence to kashrus, in Daniel chapter 1.]
    He repudiated the laws of honoring one's parents, and called on his followers to hate their parents; he also dishonored his own mother (Matthew 10:34-36; Matthew 12:46-50; Luke 14:26).
    He violated the Sabbath by picking grain, and incited his disciples to do the same (Matthew 12:1-8; Mark 2:23-26).
    4) He again violated the Sabbath by healing a man's arm, which was not a matter of saving a life, and he openly defied the rabbis in his total repudiation of the Sabbath (Matthew 12:9-13; Mark 3:1-5). [Compare this to G-d's view of violating the Sabbath, in Numbers 15:32-36, Nehemiah 10:30-32, and dozens of other places throughout the Bible.]
    Jesus brazenly defied and disobeyed the rabbis of the Sanhedrin, repudiating their authority (This is recorded in many places throughout the New Testament, but look especially at Matthew 23:13-39 and John 8:44-45).
    The Talmud (Babylonian edition) records other sins of "Jesus the Nazarene":

    He and his disciples practiced sorcery and black magic, led Jews astray into idolatry, and were sponsored by foreign, gentile powers for the purpose of subverting Jewish worship (Sanhedrin 43a).
    He was sexually immoral, worshipped statues of stone (a brick is mentioned), was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness, and refused to repent (Sanhedrin 107b; Sotah 47a).
    He learned witchcraft in Egypt and, to perform miracles, used procedures that involved cutting his flesh—which is also explicitly banned in the Bible (Shabbos 104b).
    The false, rebellious message of Jesus has been thoroughly rejected by the vast majority of the Jewish people, as G-d commanded. Unfortunately, however, this same message has brought a terrible darkness upon the world; today, over 1.5 billion gentiles believe in Jesus. These lost souls mistakenly think they have found salvation in Jesus; tragically, they are in for a rude awakening. Truth and eternal life are found directly from G-d, through performing His Law. Any "mediator" only separates man from G-d:
    down a little...

    What is the true key to salvation? Those who return to the Law (the Seven Commandments for the Children of Noah, according to the eternal covenant made with Noah in Genesis 9) and who assist the Jewish people (Isaiah 60, 61, 66) will be saved and will participate in the miracles and revelations, including worshipping in the Third Temple, under the kingship of the Messiah. As described in many places, including Jeremiah 16:19-21 and Zechariah 8:20-23, all the old gentile religions of the world will disappear, and their followers will turn to the Jews for spiritual leadership. Until then, Christians are spiritually blinded, and cannot yet understand G-d's wisdom in the Bible.

    Last edited by TheSage; 01-13-2007 at 08:40 AM.

  3. #3
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    Really, needed to tell all again?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil View Post
    Really, needed to tell all again?
    If you'll notice this is the only thread on the noahide movement explicitly. The forum was erased. Remember? duh.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSage View Post
    If you'll notice this is the only thread on the noahide movement explicitly. The forum was erased. Remember? duh.


    Thing is who would of forgotten?

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    three levels of noahide convert.


    http://jesus-messiah.com/html/noahide.html
    There Are Three Levels Of Noahide Converts

    Level #1: Is the person or group who thinks they can keep the Law as a matter of choice. These believe that to keep the law by choice makes their keeping the law by *faith.* These reinterpret Paul's writings in such a manner that they have Paul saying that a person can keep the Law by faith as long as they also claim salvation by Jesus. They reinterpret Paul to say that if a person keeps the Law for salvation and does not believe in Jesus, the Law by itself can not save. These have the doctrine that it takes both Law and Jesus to save a person. These also teach and believe that Jesus saves them and then puts the Law in their heart. The New Covenant then is not New in the sense of a different or replacement one, but the old Covenant written in the heart. Thus, the word *New* means Old but new only because a person has a new heart as its sanctuary. These believe the Law is the New Covenant and the Gospel must convert the world to the Law or it is a false Gospel. These reject animal sacrifices and the Old Testament Priesthood but praise to the high heaven modern Rabbis who are nothing but Pharisees under a new identity. The Talmud is the Bible of these Rabbis?

    Level #2: Is the person or group who believes that the Law Covenant was not ended at Calvary. They believe that both the Law and the Gospel are different in purpose. These believe the New Covenant adds Gentiles to the Law but Jews only need keep the Old Covenant they have no part in the New Covenant. They believe the two Covenants are in existence parallel at the same time. This is called Dual Covenant Theology. What this person believes, is that the Law is for Jews and the New Covenant is for Gentiles to make them converts to the concision, but won't use the word *concision* because it idenifies their actual religious philosophy.

    These also believe that animal sacrifices maybe offered to Jesus by Jews and Gentiles if done by *faith* and *free-will* providing they are not offered for atonement or the remission of sins? They strongly demand that the New Covenant includes Law-keeping. These teach and believe that it was the plan of Jesus to bring all the world under the provisions of keeping the Law by and through the preaching of the Gospel of Grace. So Gentiles are by the Grace of God brought to Law-keeping through Jesus as the Messiah. Gentiles are then saved by grace but afterward they must keep the Law or they cannot be saved or continue to claim salvation. These believe the current Jews have all the revelation on the Scriptures and that Catholic and Protestant teachings against Law-keeping are antisemitic. This group looks for the Jews to accept Jesus as Messiah and if the Jews continue in Law-keeping by faith and or animal sacrifices, then they are saved none-the-less.

    Level #3: This person or group flat out denies Jesus was the Messiah and claims that the whole world must be converted to the Seven Noahide Laws or they not only cannot be saved, they must be destroyed from the earth because they are worse than dogs who would deny the lofty and excellent life of Law-keeping. These believe the Pharisee Rabbis who are modern Talmudist are the only Ministers of God to the world and their words are the words of God. They teach no one can change the word or law of a Rabbi and a Gentile cannot tell or teach these Rabbis anything. The red heifer deal of the Rabbis saying they want to understand Christianity is all a falsehood. All they want is Christian money!

    These Gentile converts to Noahidism wear all the Jewish paraphernalia in Synagogue worship including the males wearing a god-hat. These make several trips to Israel and never come home with a crown of thrones to testify of their aliyeh to Messiah Jesus (although they visit all the Jesus tourist sites to get more holy or improve their salvation experience), but they come back all boasting about that god-hat that gets them into Jewish holy places and the Synagogues. These come to love the wailing wall more than they do Calvary. These hate anyone who teaches that the New Testament is the New Covenant and that it replaced the Law.

    Now that you are aware of the head-on-battle, the question is, will making this information help to save some innocent and tender heart from becoming an antichrist by conversion to the Seven Noahide Laws ? Will providing this background save someone from denying the full or a partial work of Calvary? We hope so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil View Post


    Thing is who would of forgotten?




    Thing is...THis is a public forum. There are new viewers here as well.

    Either discuss the subject matter or get off my hump.

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    Don't want to discuss your subject. I want to change the subject and talk about something else like you do in the other threads.

    I'm taking this thread to cuba.
    When I die I'm sure to go to heaven, cause I spent my time in hell.

    You get more with a kind word and a two by four, than you do with just a kind word.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaffer View Post
    I'm taking this thread to cuba.
    I've heard they make cigars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaffer View Post
    Don't want to discuss your subject. I want to change the subject and talk about something else like you do in the other threads.

    I'm taking this thread to cuba.

    Find a thread where I'm "hijacking" and I will re-explain to you the relevance of my comments. You probably just didn't see the connection. Deal? Otherwise, stow it.

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    I heard that too. maybe cindy shithand will pick up a few to bring back with her. She can then go visit slick willie and he'll show her how to use them.
    When I die I'm sure to go to heaven, cause I spent my time in hell.

    You get more with a kind word and a two by four, than you do with just a kind word.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaffer View Post
    She can then go visit slick willie and he'll show her how to use them.
    Whoa! that's a bad visual.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MtnBiker View Post
    Whoa! that's a bad visual.
    Yes it is. Just the suggestion of that is too much information.

    Where's the puke icon when you need it?
    When I die I'm sure to go to heaven, cause I spent my time in hell.

    You get more with a kind word and a two by four, than you do with just a kind word.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaffer View Post
    Yes it is. Just the suggestion of that is too much information.

    Where's the puke icon when you need it?
    I believe the puke icon got all used up in reactions to pictures of your mother.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSage View Post
    I believe the puke icon got all used up in reactions to pictures of your mother.
    You truely are a child.
    When I die I'm sure to go to heaven, cause I spent my time in hell.

    You get more with a kind word and a two by four, than you do with just a kind word.

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