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  1. #1
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    Default "The rich" paying more taxes than ever, bottom 50% pay less than 3%

    Same old story, accompanied by the same old politicians yelling the same old thing: "We have to soak the rich even more, and cut taxes for the poor!"

    We are nearly at the point where half of all Ameircans pay no income taxes at all. Once we pass that point, you can be sure of a majority that will NEVER vote for another tax cut, but will vote for all the "soak the rich" tax increases that come down the pike.

    Once outright theft becomes legal and accepted, is there any reason not to engage in it more and more?

    ------------------------------------------------

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1216...googlenews_wsj

    Their Fair Share

    July 21, 2008; Page A12

    Washington is teeing up "the rich" for a big tax hike next year, as a way to make them "pay their fair share." Well, the latest IRS data have arrived on who paid what share of income taxes in 2006, and it's going to be hard for the rich to pay any more than they already do. The data show that the 2003 Bush tax cuts caused what may be the biggest increase in tax payments by the rich in American history.



    The nearby chart shows that the top 1% of taxpayers, those who earn above $388,806, paid 40% of all income taxes in 2006, the highest share in at least 40 years. The top 10% in income, those earning more than $108,904, paid 71%. Barack Obama says he's going to cut taxes for those at the bottom, but that's also going to be a challenge because Americans with an income below the median paid a record low 2.9% of all income taxes, while the top 50% paid 97.1%. Perhaps he thinks half the country should pay all the taxes to support the other half.

    Aha, we are told: The rich paid more taxes because they made a greater share of the money. That is true. The top 1% earned 22% of all reported income. But they also paid a share of taxes not far from double their share of income. In other words, the tax code is already steeply progressive.

    We also know from income mobility data that a very large percentage in the top 1% are "new rich," not inheritors of fortunes. There is rapid turnover in the ranks of the highest income earners, so much so that people who started in the top 1% of income in the 1980s and 1990s suffered the largest declines in earnings of any income group over the subsequent decade, according to Treasury Department studies of actual tax returns. It's hard to stay king of the hill in America for long.

    The most amazing part of this story is the leap in the number of Americans who declared adjusted gross income of more than $1 million from 2003 to 2006. The ranks of U.S. millionaires nearly doubled to 354,000 from 181,000 in a mere three years after the tax cuts.

    This is precisely what supply-siders predicted would happen with lower tax rates on capital gains, dividends and income. The economy and earnings would grow faster, which they did; investors would declare more capital gains and companies would pay out more dividends, which they did; the rich would invest less in tax shelters at lower tax rates, so their tax payments would rise, which did happen.

    The idea that this has been a giveaway to the rich is a figment of the left's imagination. Taxes paid by millionaire households more than doubled to $274 billion in 2006 from $136 billion in 2003. No President has ever plied more money from the rich than George W. Bush did with his 2003 tax cuts. These tax payments from the rich explain the very rapid reduction in the budget deficit to 1.9% of GDP in 2006 from 3.5% in 2003.

    This year, thanks to the credit mess and slower growth, taxes paid by the rich may fall and the deficit will rise. (The nonstimulating tax rebates will also hurt the deficit.) Mr. Obama proposes to close this deficit by raising tax rates on the rich to their highest levels since the late 1970s. The very groups like the Congressional Budget Office and Tax Policy Center that wrongly predicted that the 2003 investment tax cuts would cost about $1 trillion in lost revenue are now saying that repealing those tax cuts would gain similar amounts. We'll wager it'd gain a lot less.

    If Mr. Obama does succeed in raising tax rates on the rich, we'd also wager that the rich share of tax payments would fall. The last time tax rates were as high as the Senator wants them -- the Carter years -- the rich paid only 19% of all income taxes, half of the 40% share they pay today. Why? Because they either worked less, earned less, or they found ways to shelter income from taxes so it was never reported to the IRS as income.

    The way to soak the rich is with low tax rates, and last week's IRS data provide more powerful validation of that proposition.
    "The social contract exists so that everyone doesn’t have to squat in the dust holding a spear to protect his woman and his meat all day every day. It does not exist so that the government can take your spear, your meat, and your woman because it knows better what to do with them." - Instapundit.com

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    and these are the guys getting a free ride. Lazy people who depend on the rest of us to pay their way.

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=92592545

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    How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin.

    Ronald Reagan

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    the tax code has been WAY more steeply progressive in earlier administrations than it is in this one or that it will be in an Obama administration. Throughout those times, the wealthy in America were still able to live lives of opulence and leisure. A marginal increase back to the rates in place during the halcyon days of the Clinton Administration when lots of folks were rich and getting richer will not be a burden on the wealthy. They'll still have plenty of cash to do whatever they please.

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    Quote Originally Posted by manfrommaine View Post
    the tax code has been WAY more steeply progressive in earlier administrations than it is in this one or that it will be in an Obama administration. Throughout those times, the wealthy in America were still able to live lives of opulence and leisure. A marginal increase back to the rates in place during the halcyon days of the Clinton Administration when lots of folks were rich and getting richer will not be a burden on the wealthy. They'll still have plenty of cash to do whatever they please.
    What other forms of Theft are you okay with? Do you eat grapes from the grocery store? Do you shoplift? Afterall, Winn Dixie can AFFORD you eating it's grapes w/o paying. And WalMart can EASILY afford you stealing a few hundred dollars of merchindise.

    The rich living their lifestyle - based on their HARD WORK - is irrelevant to the level of 'theft' the government performs upon them via "taxes". Where is the motivation to GET rich, if you are coerced into giving your hard earned money to poor lazy folk.
    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmp View Post
    What other forms of Theft are you okay with? Do you eat grapes from the grocery store? Do you shoplift? Afterall, Winn Dixie can AFFORD you eating it's grapes w/o paying. And WalMart can EASILY afford you stealing a few hundred dollars of merchindise.

    The rich living their lifestyle - based on their HARD WORK - is irrelevant to the level of 'theft' the government performs upon them via "taxes". Where is the motivation to GET rich, if you are coerced into giving your hard earned money to poor lazy folk.

    like I said, we've had a progressive tax code for nearly a century. don't blame ME.

    Where was the motivation to get rich 60 years ago? Do you think no one GOT rich 60 years ago because of a high marginal tax rate - MUCH higher than today?

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    For what it is worth, not all people with low income and low tax burden are lazy or to lazy to earn more.

    And a weathly person's lifestyle should be of no concern for a governments need to collect tax revenue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigg View Post
    and these are the guys getting a free ride. Lazy people who depend on the rest of us to pay their way.

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=92592545
    Holy LORD



    If they stopped shoving fist-after-fist of food into their bodies, they could afford their car!
    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmp View Post
    What other forms of Theft are you okay with? Do you eat grapes from the grocery store? Do you shoplift? Afterall, Winn Dixie can AFFORD you eating it's grapes w/o paying. And WalMart can EASILY afford you stealing a few hundred dollars of merchindise.

    The rich living their lifestyle - based on their HARD WORK - is irrelevant to the level of 'theft' the government performs upon them via "taxes". Where is the motivation to GET rich, if you are coerced into giving your hard earned money to poor lazy folk.
    very good point and analogy. it is irrelevent to the discussion whether to blame any one person, the question really is, where do we draw the line at 'theft' as you call it and i agree with the term. it is also irrelevent whether someone prospered before during high taxes. that is like saying, walmart prospered during the years of heavy shoplifting losses.
    Before enlightenment - chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment - chop wood, carry water. ~Zen Buddhist Proverb

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmp View Post
    Holy LORD



    If they stopped shoving fist-after-fist of food into their bodies, they could afford their car!
    This particular condition is called Hand-to-Mouth Disease.

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    Quote Originally Posted by manfrommaine View Post
    the tax code has been WAY more steeply progressive in earlier administrations than it is in this one or that it will be in an Obama administration. Throughout those times, the wealthy in America were still able to live lives of opulence and leisure. A marginal increase back to the rates in place during the halcyon days of the Clinton Administration when lots of folks were rich and getting richer will not be a burden on the wealthy. They'll still have plenty of cash to do whatever they please.
    Whether they would still be able to survive or not is beyond the point. The government should not make it a policy to tax some people at a higher percentage than others just because "they have enough."

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5stringJeff View Post
    Whether they would still be able to survive or not is beyond the point. Teh government should not make it a policy to tax some people at a higher percentage than others just because "they have enough."
    A famous bank robber was once asked why he kept robbing banks. He replied, "Because that's where the money is!"

    The philosophy of government raising taxes to "soak the rich" is identical to that robber's... as is the level of morality. Only the honesty is different between the two. The bank robber never tried to claim the ones he robbed, *deserved* to have their money taken away.
    "The social contract exists so that everyone doesn’t have to squat in the dust holding a spear to protect his woman and his meat all day every day. It does not exist so that the government can take your spear, your meat, and your woman because it knows better what to do with them." - Instapundit.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5stringJeff View Post
    Whether they would still be able to survive or not is beyond the point. Teh government should not make it a policy to tax some people at a higher percentage than others just because "they have enough."
    Those facts do not matter to the left. It is not obscene what anyone makes. What is obscene is what the government takes away from them in ever increasing taxes

    When you add up all the tax increases Obama wants to pass, the top tax rate will be well over 60%

    Even retired people who spent their entire lives paying taxes, will see a tax increase


    How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin.

    Ronald Reagan

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5stringJeff View Post
    Whether they would still be able to survive or not is beyond the point. The government should not make it a policy to tax some people at a higher percentage than others just because "they have enough."
    oddly enough, elected officials of the united states government for the past nearly on e hundred years who have all signed on to a progressive income tax program would disagree with you. I love you like a brother Jeff, but I would disagree with you too.

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    so because all these elected official believe taxing is ok, thats makes it ok. hmmm, maybe slavery should have been abolished or attempted to be abolished, afterall, all those elected officials back then were for it. the tide changed, people had enough, the people (we the people) changed the government and the elected officials of course followed.

    same here. change is needed. income tax (federal) and other taxes were not always apart of our government. they outlawed alcohol for 12 years, all those officials agreed.....we know what happened to that law...
    Before enlightenment - chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment - chop wood, carry water. ~Zen Buddhist Proverb

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