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  1. #16
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    TE=Said1;307748]I'm a human geography major
    don't give up hope

    i'm kidding you really

    and a lot of what I study involves the various aspects of population growth and decline and it's affects on different societies. Health Care isn't my favorite topic, I prefer funner stuff like 'light rail' expansion. The economics of health care is enough to put be to sleep for a long time, although I do know that price capping on services had made it very undesirable for doctors to practice in Canada. I've heard it's also difficult for foreign doctors to do what they need to do in order to get proper licensing, after being recruited from abroad - even though it seems like everyone is on their way to see dr. Chang or Dr. Ackmed..
    therein lies the argument...price caps...the free market....

    who controls the price

    who controls the market

    and who controls both

    the government should have a light hand in this....not a heavy hand. there is something for the private sector, even you see this in the medical field. right or wrong, the private medical sector does well, and if they dont, they fail. no one bails them out


    As for unions and health care, I don't know. I do know that a few years back I applied for a job at one of the Ottawa hospitals. i forget the exact job title, but it involved walking around the corporate campus with a cart, picking up boxes of files and then destroying them in a giant thing-a-ma-bob. It paid $22/hr plus benefits out the A$$. Ottawa city hospitals are so desperate for staff, they're willing to take admin staff who received ICS diplomas. I bet Sally Struthers herself could get a job in admitting - wig and all.
    i have never recieved benefits out of the A$$.... care to explain

    my question is this then.....the government is not working....do we know the private sector would not work.....well......maybe not........but........the government is not working in canada

    or is it?

    what is our choice?
    Last edited by Yurt; 10-11-2008 at 11:48 PM.
    Before enlightenment - chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment - chop wood, carry water. ~Zen Buddhist Proverb

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yurt View Post

    my question is this then.....the government is not working....do we know the private sector would not work.....well......maybe not........but........the government is not working in canada

    or is it?

    what is our choice?
    I think we can use Quebec as an example. They've allowed for a certain amount of privatization. They're not supposed to and we're not supposed to go over there and pay, but we do and the feds look the other way. We have a small amount of it here in Ontario as well, but they do not apply to the private services Quebec allows ie MRIs. Ontario hospitals have those machines running 24/7. It's not uncommon for people to have appointments at 2am - it's all about wait times.

    I don't have a problem with a 2 tiered system similar to Australia's, IF spending stayed the same as it is now. Meaning that health care professionals should be allowed to work inside and outside the health care system. We should be allowed, in certain cases to combine provincial health care plans with private plans (outside of private hospital rooms etc). I hardly see the point of having private insurance if it only covers things such as eye exams, orthopedic shoes and a visit to the chiropractor.


    Those are just a few ideas. Brilliant, I know.

  3. #18
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    I would have to agree with this:
    The major problem in the quality and effectiveness of
    medical education stems from the mismatch between the
    health needs of the public and what is concentrated upon,
    demonstrated and taught in our academic medical centers.
    The educational program is dominated by the choices
    made in research and patient care, which reflect the
    interests of the many specialized individuals and groups
    that make up the faculty. Though each of these choices has
    some relevance to health and disease, when taken together,
    they rarely match the health needs of the population as a
    whole. Geriatrics and alcoholism, for example, present
    massive problems which get little, if any, attention in the
    academic medical center. The emphasis is on acute and
    unusual conditions, leaving chronic disease grossly neglected.
    The focus is generally on the unusual rather than the
    common problems. Prevention and rehabilitation are
    given lip service. Tertiary care is preferred over primary
    care. The patient in bed is deemed to be more interesting
    than the one who is ambulatory. The patients in the
    teaching hospital, where student experience is concentrated,
    represent a tiny fraction, less than 1 percent, of the
    total number of patients who seek medical care at any
    point in time. How can this experience be thought to
    prepare students adequately for medical practice?

    ....................Causes of postgraduate training problems
    The causes are not obvious. Perhaps the single
    most important one is the absence of control and
    coordination of the total complement of funded
    positions and their allocation across specialties and
    training sites. Even a cursory look at the statistics
    provided by CAPER'2 reveals numerous examples of
    duplication and of small programs.
    However, there is a deeper issue. The need for
    control and coordination seems widely acknowledged
    and appreciated; thus, their virtual absence
    must be attributed to a failure of political will, at two
    levels. First, despite the ample opportunity for coordination
    in some provinces no agency has stepped in
    to take a leadership role (although the Council of
    Faculties of Medicine in Ontario is trying). Second,
    at the time of our report there had been few serious
    attempts to develop interprovincial arrangements.*
    This same lack of political will underlies the
    misalignment of the mix of funded positions with
    population needs. Provincial ministries have always
    been keenly interested in the overall numbers of
    positions they fund but apparently not in their
    specialty mix. As one senior ministry official noted,
    "We know it's a problem, and we know it's a
    problem about which we could do something.
    Somehow it never seems to be quite important
    enough amidst the competing political and fiscal
    priorities." Certainly, medical educatQrs have no
    interest in seeing governments involved in the
    "micromanage[ment of] postgraduate training."'9
    There is ample evidence of similar problems at
    individual institutions. As Maudsley'3 noted, "in
    many programs the issue is not too few trainees but,
    rather, too many CTUs [clinical teaching units]."
    The causes are pressures from clinical teaching units
    and potential clinical supervisors who would stand
    to benefit personally from the establishment of
    programs and affiliations.'3 This conflict between the
    service needs of teaching units and the educational
    needs of a mix of residents that matches population
    requirements should be resolved in favour of the
    educational interests (legitimate service needs being
    met through other means).
    Of course, it is not always (or ever) that easy.
    For example, a province's subspecialty service needs
    may be met only through the offer of an academic
    affiliation and a residency program during recruitment.
    To meet such needs a province may end up
    training people it has no use for.
    This is part of an assesment of a report found here......(warning, very big PDF document, do not click link of not interested!)http://www.chspr.ubc.ca/files/public...hpru91-06D.pdf
    This is a very indepth health care policy analysis. One of their findings, back in '92 was that we were facing a physician SURPLUS!!!!!! Of course, things were done to remedy an already faltering system to make it worse.


    The snip above can be found here: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pic...6&blobtype=pdf
    It has more to do with specialists training and possible explainations why we are lacking in that area.

  4. #19
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    good points Said1, i may go through the info
    Before enlightenment - chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment - chop wood, carry water. ~Zen Buddhist Proverb

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychoblues View Post
    Zactly, doc, zactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!



    The reichwing world in America is nothing more than a series of "damn right"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think it's their mating call!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    [sarcasm] Yes, PB, that's exactly what we should do, I mean we've done so well with the economy, education, medicare, medicaid, social security, and welfare, we should have the government handle the medical too. Yeah, that's the ticket. [/sarcasm]
    "Government screws up everything. If government says black, you can bet it's white. If government says sit still for your safety, you'd better run for your life!"
    --Wayne Allyn Root
    www.rootforamerica.com
    www.FairTax.org

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