Barack Obama on Gun Control

[stephanie]

Democratic nomine for President; Junior Senator (IL)




Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws
Q: Is the D.C. law prohibiting ownership of handguns consistent with an individual's right to bear arms?
A: As a general principle, I believe that the Constitution confers an individual right to bear arms. But just because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right, in the same way that we have a right to private property but local governments can establish zoning ordinances that determine how you can use it.

Q: But do you still favor the registration & licensing of guns?

A: I think we can provide common-sense approaches to the issue of illegal guns that are ending up on the streets. We can make sure that criminals don't have guns in their hands. We can make certain that those who are mentally deranged are not getting a hold of handguns. We can trace guns that have been used in crimes to unscrupulous gun dealers that may be selling to straw purchasers and dumping them on the streets.

Source: 2008 Philadelphia primary debate, on eve of PA primary Apr 16, 2008

FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban
Obama was being misleading when he denied that his handwriting had been on a document endorsing a state ban on the sale and possession of handguns in Illinois. Obama responded, "No, my writing wasn't on that particular questionnaire. As I said, I have never favored an all-out ban on handguns."
Actually, Obama's writing was on the 1996 document, which was filed when Obama was running for the Illinois state Senate. A Chicago nonprofit, Independent Voters of Illinois, had this question, and Obama took hard line:

35. Do you support state legislation to:
a. ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns? Yes.
b. ban assault weapons? Yes.
c. mandatory waiting periods and background checks? Yes.

Obama's campaign said, "Sen. Obama didn't fill out these state Senate questionnaires--a staffer did--and there are several answers that didn't reflect his views then or now. He may have jotted some notes on the front page of the questionnaire, but some answers didn't reflect his views."

Source: FactCheck.org analysis of 2008 Philadelphia primary debate Apr 16, 2008

read it all here..
http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Bara...un_Control.htm

[Jagger]

the Constitution confers an individual right to bear arms.

The right to keep and bear arms is conferred only on the individuals in the well regulated militia. The word "people" doesn't coincide with the phrase "well regulated militia." Where the language in a law doesn't coincide, the means is sacrificed to the end.

[Little-Acorn]

The right to keep and bear arms is conferred only on the individuals in the well regulated militia. The word "people" doesn't coincide with the phrase "well regulated militia." Where the language in a law doesn't coincide, the means is sacrificed to the end.

(Sigh)

Looks like little joesteel has come back with a new name. And attitude and rep to match.

Some things never change.

[theHawk]

Anyone who believes Obama is going to protect and defend the Consitution is delusional.

[Little-Acorn]

Obama's campaign said, "Sen. Obama didn't fill out these state Senate questionnaires--a staffer did--and there are several answers that didn't reflect his views then or now. He may have jotted some notes on the front page of the questionnaire, but some answers didn't reflect his views."

As my Daddy used to say, "If it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, then it's probably a duck."

If he had known that this particular duck's name and handwriting were all over it too, he probably would have been even more emphatic about what, or who, it really was.

I know that Barry in particular, and liberals in general, feel they have to always lie about what they really intend, because they wouldn't get many votes if they admitted their intentions honestly. Look what happened to the Democrats after they published a book about their intentions for Universal Health Care in 1993 - they got kicked out of every majority in the government at the next election, a year later.

Barry doesn't dare admit to his intentions for gun control, and probably is kicking himself right now for his too-candid comment to Joe the Plumber about wanting to "spread the wealth around".

But don't mistake what he now says, for what he will do.

[Jagger]

The Bill of Rights is a limitation upon government not upon individuals

The Bill of Right came about because the Conventions of a number of the States having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers. The Second Amendment's object was to prevent Congress from abusing its power to "provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia", by neglecting "to provide for arming the militia", by declaring "that each state respectively should have the power to provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining it's own militia, whenever congress should neglect to provide for the same."

George Mason during the Virginia Ratification Convention expressed a widespread distrust of Congress and the possibility that it would not fund the arming for the militia as an excuse for the creation of a standing army, which could later to be used as an instrument of tyranny by Congress.

The militia may be here destroyed by that method which has been practised in other parts of the world before; that is, by rendering them useless—by disarming them. Under various pretences, Congress may neglect to provide for arming and disciplining the militia; and the state governments cannot do it, for Congress has an exclusive right to arm them, &c. … Should the national government wish to render the militia useless, they may neglect them, and let them perish, in order to have a pretence of establishing a standing army. … But when once a standing army is established in any country, the people lose their liberty. When, against a regular and disciplined army, yeomanry are the only defence,—yeomanry, unskilful and unarmed,—what chance is there for preserving freedom?

The Second Amendment was meant to be protection against a possible abuse by Congress. The right protected is really the right of a state to maintain an armed militia, or national guard, as we call it now. The American people feared that Congress might, by passing a law, prohibit the states from arming their citizens. Then having all the armed strength at its command, the national government could overwhelm the states. Such a circumstance has never happened, but this amendment would prevent it. The Second Amendment does not give anybody or everybody the right to possess and use firearms. The states may very properly prescribe regulations and permits governing the use of guns within their borders."

[theHawk]

An example of what our founding fathers thought about gun rights:

Here every private person is authorized to arm himself, and on the strength of this authority, I do not deny the inhabitants had a right to arm themselves at that time, for their defense, not for offence. --John Adams during his defense of British soldiers from the Boston Massacre.

[theHawk]

The Second Amendment does not give anybody or everybody the right to possess and use firearms. The states may very properly prescribe regulations and permits governing the use of guns within their borders."

"the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

So you are suggesting that the phrase "the People" doesn't include certain individuals?

Perhaps then "We the People" only applies to certain folks too.

[Jagger]

what our founding fathers thought about gun rights...

The Constitution wasn't written with the belief or understanding that it's meaning would be ascertained by applying what the founding fathers believed about rights.

[stephanie]

what a bunch of mumble jumble that was..

[Jagger]

An example of what our founding fathers thought about gun rights:

Here every private person is authorized to arm himself, and on the strength of this authority, I do not deny the inhabitants had a right to arm themselves at that time, for their defense, not for offence. --John Adams during his defense of British soldiers from the Boston Massacre.

John Adams didn't make that statement about the Second Amendment. You need to get real, dude.

[Jagger]

"the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

So you are suggesting that the phrase "the People" doesn't include certain individuals?

The term "the people" when used in the context of the "right to keep and bear arms", meant " the people as a collective", which meant "the government." See Article Seventeen of the Massachusetts Constitution of 1780.

The object of the right to keep and bear was "collective defense", which was a duty assigned to the government. See Article Seventeen of the Massachusetts Constitution of 1780.

[hjmick]

John Adams didn't make that statement about the Second Amendment. You need to get real, dude.

Actually, John Adams did indeed say that. Seems as if you need to get real.

Here, enjoy a couple of more quotes from one of our Founding Fathers on the subject:

No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms. - Thomas Jefferson

The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves;... that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed and that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of press. - Thomas Jefferson

[Jagger]

what a bunch of mumble jumble that was..

You need to get real, dude, and read what the lawmakers said about the rules of legal interpretation being used to ascertain the meaning of the Constitution.

[Jagger]

Actually, John Adams did indeed say that. Seems as if you need to get real.

He didn't say it about the Second Amendment, dude.

No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms. - Thomas Jefferson

Now go find what T J said about the meaning of the Second Amendment.

The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves;... that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed and that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of press. - Thomas Jefferson

That's a bogus quotation, dude. Post it the way Jefferson actually wrote it.