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    Default Expelled - No Intelligence Allowed

    Over the weekend I rented Ben Stein's very-well-done movie highlighting the hypocricy, hatred, and insanity surrounding scientific learning.

    What struck me most, while watching this movie, is the overwhelming sense of futility in bringing truth and open-mindedness to the ever-secular "leaders" of today. I heard a scientist during the movie. He said something like if science points us to Intelligent Design, and that's the conclusion, so what? Why would that matter to (human kind)? That's the absolute crux of the situation. People do not want to know. There's a certain safety and dare I say liberty in ignorance of man's special qualities. There's likely some comfort to the minds of folk to think there's no creator - no God - no special purpose for life being on this tiny planet in this place in the universe. What comfort would that be? The comfort in thinking nothing they do in life - no decision they make, no conditions of their hearts and minds will have consequence hereafter.

    One particularly excellent interchange between Stein and Richard Dawkins:

    Stein: What do think is the possibility that there then, intelligent design might turn out to be the answer to some issues in genetics... or in evolution?
    Richard Dawkins: Well... it could come about in the following way: it could be that uh, at some earlier time somewhere in the universe a civilization e-evolved... by probably by some kind of Darwinian means to a very very high level of technology and designed a form of life that they seeded onto... perhaps this... this planet. Um, now that is a possibility. And uh, an intriguing possibility. And I suppose it's possible that you might find evidence for that if you look at the um, at the detail... details of our chemistry molecular biology you might find a signature of some sort of designer.
    Stein:[voice over] Wait a second. Richard Dawkins thought intelligent design might be a legitimate pursuit?
    Richard Dawkins: Um, and that designer could well be a higher intelligence from elsewhere in the universe. But that higher intelligence would itself would have to come about by some explicable or ultimately explicable process. It couldn't have just jumped into existence spontaneously. That's the point.
    Stein: [voice over] So professor Dawkins was not against intelligent design, just certain types of designers. Such as God.


    I also found the movie interesting in how it showed some of the social outcomes possible of complete Darwinism. In the minds of the motivated, such as Adolf Hitler, Darwinism directly or indirectly lead to the murder of millions during the rise and sustainment of Nazism. Even today, organizations such as Planned Parenthood were created by Darwinists who supported ideas such as Eugenics. Absolutely eye-opening. I'd heard it before - but to see the parallels of Nazism and Abortion-on-demand advocates such as PP were pretty surprising.

    But whatever the conclusions about ID vs Darwinism - the main point of the movie is NOT to prove/disprove either, but to generate discussion. To call for at least an honest and open discussion. The reason no-such discussion happens is likely because of the fear of the answer on behalf of weak-minded or godless?

    I'd show this movie to most Junior Highers and older. My elementary-school-aged kids couldn't keep interested.


    Warning - Some of these brits have Literally BROWN teeth. it's nasty.
    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

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    I was one of the million people that saw it at the theater. I thought it was very well done.

    For anyone who liked it I suggest 3 other videos.

    Indoctrinate U (the clean version)

    Privileged Planet. This does a great job of pointing out how the positioning of our planet cant just be random.

    Answers in Genesis Curriculum http://www.answersingenesis.org/Publ...,4864,263.aspx
    This is a little expensive but worth every penny.
    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."
    Samuel Adams


    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    What a load of hooey! You have absolutely no desire of an honest and open discussion. You have no desire to learn the truth, you've already made up your mind what the truth is. You arbitrarily dismiss a MOUNTAIN of scientific evidence in favor of ancient Jewish mythology because it soothes YOUR fears.

    Be careful how you spray around "weak-minded" also. One doesn't have to be weak-minded to disbelieve in YOUR religion just as you don't have to be weak-minded to disbelieve in other religions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Missileman View Post
    What a load of hooey! You have absolutely no desire of an honest and open discussion. You have no desire to learn the truth, you've already made up your mind what the truth is. You arbitrarily dismiss a MOUNTAIN of scientific evidence in favor of ancient Jewish mythology because it soothes YOUR fears.

    Be careful how you spray around "weak-minded" also. One doesn't have to be weak-minded to disbelieve in YOUR religion just as you don't have to be weak-minded to disbelieve in other religions.

    When somebody argues valid science behind ID, you simply close your eyes, plug your ears and go "nanananananananana" as loud as you can.
    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmp View Post
    When somebody argues valid science behind ID, you simply close your eyes, plug your ears and go "nanananananananana" as loud as you can.
    As yet, I have never seen a single shred of valid science in support of ID. Your faith in it doesn't make it valid.

    As has been pointed out on several occasions if there were actually anything scientific to ID, it would be adopted by scientists...that's how scientists operate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Missileman View Post
    As yet, I have never seen a single shred of valid science in support of ID. Your faith in it doesn't make it valid.

    As has been pointed out on several occasions if there were actually anything scientific to ID, it would be adopted by scientists...that's how scientists operate.
    Toeing the party line I see?

    have you seen Expelled?
    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

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    It ranks right up there with an inconvenient truth as far as I'm concerned. Or sicko. I wouldn't watch it for free, let alone pay to see it.
    When I die I'm sure to go to heaven, cause I spent my time in hell.

    You get more with a kind word and a two by four, than you do with just a kind word.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmp View Post
    Toeing the party line I see?

    have you seen Expelled?
    No, I haven't seen it. I'm not a big fan of pseudo-scientific, docu-comedies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmp View Post
    Toeing the party line I see?

    have you seen Expelled?
    he's a conservative like me. We just don't believe in pseudo-science.
    When I die I'm sure to go to heaven, cause I spent my time in hell.

    You get more with a kind word and a two by four, than you do with just a kind word.

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    ...but the movie doesn't set out to prove anything except the closed minded LOUD voice of academia to very viable SCIENTIFIC discussion. Folks refuse to believe ID is a possibility - except if the ID comes from Aliens. Silly, eh?
    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmp View Post
    ...but the movie doesn't set out to prove anything except the closed minded LOUD voice of academia to very viable SCIENTIFIC discussion. Folks refuse to believe ID is a possibility - except if the ID comes from Aliens. Silly, eh?
    Real science is not out to prove or disprove the existence of a god or creator. It deals only in facts. Injecting ID into an equation just screws up the results as ID is not a fact but an opinion.
    When I die I'm sure to go to heaven, cause I spent my time in hell.

    You get more with a kind word and a two by four, than you do with just a kind word.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmp View Post
    ...but the movie doesn't set out to prove anything except the closed minded LOUD voice of academia to very viable SCIENTIFIC discussion. Folks refuse to believe ID is a possibility - except if the ID comes from Aliens. Silly, eh?
    No, silly is expecting scientists to consider pseudo-science on the basis that YOU believe in it.

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    you're very close minded. So what if studying biology leads to ID? Why would that bother you? You're more interested in perserving your preconceptions than finding truth. It's as if, as the movie says, you're letting your world view influence the interpretation of science.
    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmp View Post
    you're very close minded. So what if studying biology leads to ID? Why would that bother you? You're more interested in perserving your preconceptions than finding truth. It's as if, as the movie says, you're letting your world view influence the interpretation of science.
    You are the one with the closed mind. You insist something exists that you can prove. It's very existence is based on your beliefs. Science isn't about interpretation. It's about fact. One plus one equals two. It won't change no matter how much you believe or pray or hope or wish.
    When I die I'm sure to go to heaven, cause I spent my time in hell.

    You get more with a kind word and a two by four, than you do with just a kind word.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmp View Post
    you're very close minded.
    No more so than you are...

    Quote Originally Posted by dmp View Post
    So what if studying biology leads to ID? Why would that bother you? You're more interested in perserving your preconceptions than finding truth. It's as if, as the movie says, you're letting your world view influence the interpretation of science.
    If ID is shown to be more likely than evolution, I will happily accept it as just that. It won't "bother" me at all. My views aren't locked into the Christian mold as yours are...it's your preconception that HAS to include a god, not mine.

    I wouldn't hold my breath that ID is going to gain any real scientific clout though...it's a pile of bunk so far. It was pulled from the ass of a thumper looking for a way to sneak the bible into the public school system.

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