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  1. #1
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    Default Foundations of Liberalism

    Got this in an email last week


    1. Government should never censor or regulate political speech--except, of course, when it comes to conservative talk radio.

    2. It's discrimination for a Christian photographer to decline to attend and photograph a lesbian ceremony, but it's ok to force a Christian photographer to attend and photograph that ceremony against their will. And the idea of forcing a gay photographer to attend and photograph an evangelical seminar on the public health risks of gay sex is "outrageous."

    3. The secret ballot is a fundamental right of every American--except for those Americans who take part in union elections.

    4. The death penalty is immoral, but convenience abortion is not. In other words, it's wrong to execute a murderer, but it's not wrong to kill an unborn baby, even if there's been no rape or incest and even if the baby's birth poses no risk to the mother's life. This is true even if we're talking about a third-trimester baby.

    5. People who try to stop whalers from killing whales are heroic, but people who try to stop women from killing their unborn babies are intolerant.

    6. People who practice homosexuality have a right to get married, but adult-child marriage, beastiality marriage, consensual incest, and consensual pedophilia should all remain illegal.

    7. Freedom of religion is a basic right of all Americans. Why, after all, freedom of religion is the very reason the first European settlers came to this land. However, freedom of religion does not apply to churches that refuse to conduct or host gay weddings--such churches should be stripped of their tax exemption and forced to treat gay weddings the same way they treat normal weddings. Such churches should also be forced to hire gay priests. But it goes without saying that no gay group should ever be forced to hire a Bible-believing Christian. And if a gay restaurant owner wants to prohibit people from vocally blessing their food in his establishment, he of course has that right, since public prayers over food may make other patrons "uncomfortable."

    8. Our public schools can't even suggest to children that life came about by design. Nor can public schools display the Ten Commandments. Nor can they read George Washington's Farewell Address to children. However, public schools can teach children that life came about purely by chance, that two gay men shacking up is just as valid a relationship as a traditional marriage, and that there's nothing wrong with pre-marital sex as long as they're careful and responsible about it.

    9. Government should not fine TV networks for airing nudity, sex scenes, and profanity, since no one is forced to watch any show they don't want to watch--they can just change the channel. However, government should be able to force commercial radio stations to air opposing political views, even if they have to do so at their own expense because the opposing views are not popular with the audience and hence advertisers don't want to buy advertising during those times. Never mind the fact that no one is forced to listen to a radio program they don't like; never mind that people can just change the station if they run across a political talk show they don't like; and never mind that people with opposing views are free to start their own talk shows, provided of course that they can garner a large enough audience to attract advertisers, etc., etc. Nope, in this case the First Amendment is Dead On Arrival. The government must force radio stations to air liberal talk radio shows to "balance out" the conservative talk radio shows, even if liberal talk shows attract much smaller audiences and usually don't pay for themselves. Note: This "fairness doctrine" does NOT apply to CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS, and MSNBC.

    10. Government has a right to take as much of your paycheck as it thinks it needs, and if you object you're just being "selfish."

    11. Freedom of choice does not apply to parents who want to use their education tax dollars to send their kids to private schools.

    12. The government should have the right to determine whether or not a parent is qualified to educate their child themselves. The child really belongs to the state, not to the parent, and thus the state should have the final say as to who gets to teach the child. And just never you mind that home schoolers do better on standardized tests like the SAT and ACT than public school children do. Never you mind that the crime rate for home schoolers is a fraction of what it is for public school children. Never you mind that home schoolers usually excel in college and that on average they perform better in college than public school children do. Never you mind that the rate of rape, molestation, drug use, and violence is far greater in public schools than in home schools. Just never you mind all that.

    13. The government should have the right to disarm the citizenry. If the government decides that it would be best if only the government had guns, then that's how it should be. Crime would go down if guns were outlawed and if only the government had guns. If it's in a good mood, the government may establish hunting centers around the country where licensed citizens (those "clingers") could come and do some heavily regulated hunting.


    How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin.

    Ronald Reagan

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    Quote Originally Posted by red states rule View Post
    Got this in an email last week
    as if anyone would have EVER thought that YOU could have written it yourself!

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    Quote Originally Posted by manfrommaine View Post
    as if anyone would have EVER thought that YOU could have written it yourself!
    and who would have thought you would contribute to the discussion


    How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin.

    Ronald Reagan

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    Quote Originally Posted by red states rule View Post
    and who would have thought you would contribute to the discussion
    it's a humor piece. that is where it belongs.

    and it's a cut and paste job, which is your hallmark.

    If you want to write something of substance I would be happy to contribute to such a discussion. I've been waiting in vain for years for you to produce such a piece.

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    Quote Originally Posted by manfrommaine View Post
    it's a humor piece. that is where it belongs.

    and it's a cut and paste job, which is your hallmark.

    If you want to write something of substance I would be happy to contribute to such a discussion. I've been waiting in vain for years for you to produce such a piece.
    In order for anything to be humorous, there must be an element of truth. There is alot of truth in the piece about liberals and their double standards


    How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin.

    Ronald Reagan

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    Back to the topic

    Liberals have only 3 values, or goals in life

    1. Power, and expanding that power power

    2. Money, coming from anyone who has earned it, especially the rich

    3. The ends justify the means, whatever it takes to achieve numbers one and two


    How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin.

    Ronald Reagan

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    Quote Originally Posted by red states rule View Post
    In order for anything to be humorous, there must be an element of truth. There is alot of truth in the piece about liberals and their double standards
    one could write a similar piece about conservatives and it would also belong in the humor forum.... this is not anything for serious debate. none of your cut and paste tripe is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by manfrommaine View Post
    one could write a similar piece about conservatives and it would also belong in the humor forum.... this is not anything for serious debate. none of your cut and paste tripe is.
    you don't like the post, stay the hell out of it.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself."
    Tullius Cicero (106-43 BC)

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    Quote Originally Posted by manfrommaine View Post
    one could write a similar piece about conservatives and it would also belong in the humor forum.... this is not anything for serious debate. none of your cut and paste tripe is.
    Liberals like you MFM have no values whatsoever. You find them too restraining.

    As in post # 6, all that matters to you is power and the means needed to attain that power


    How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin.

    Ronald Reagan

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    Quote Originally Posted by manfrommaine View Post
    one could write a similar piece about conservatives and it would also belong in the humor forum.... this is not anything for serious debate. none of your cut and paste tripe is.
    MFM is out to derail any thread he disagrees with. He will not debate the topic - only flame


    How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin.

    Ronald Reagan

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by red states rule View Post
    Got this in an email last week


    1. Government should never censor or regulate political speech--except, of course, when it comes to conservative talk radio.
    bullshit. Government has a right to regulate the content of material broadcast over public airwaves. period.

    2. It's discrimination for a Christian photographer to decline to attend and photograph a lesbian ceremony, but it's ok to force a Christian photographer to attend and photograph that ceremony against their will. And the idea of forcing a gay photographer to attend and photograph an evangelical seminar on the public health risks of gay sex is "outrageous."
    I don't think that any photographer should be forced to photograph anything he doesn't want to photograph. If his employer thinks otherwise, the photographer is probably not working for the right employer

    3. The secret ballot is a fundamental right of every American--except for those Americans who take part in union elections.
    The Employee Free Choice Act does not abolish elections or "secret ballots." Under the proposed legislation, workers get to choose the union formation process—elections or majority sign-up. Under current law, the choice to recognize a union rests only with employers.

    What the Employee Free Choice Act does prevent is an employer manipulating the flawed system to influence the election outcome. When faced with organizing campaigns: 25 percent of employers illegally fire pro-union workers; 51 percent of employers illegally threaten to close down worksites if the union prevails; and, 34 percent of employers coerce workers into opposing the union with bribes and favoritism.



    4. The death penalty is immoral, but convenience abortion is not. In other words, it's wrong to execute a murderer, but it's not wrong to kill an unborn baby, even if there's been no rape or incest and even if the baby's birth poses no risk to the mother's life. This is true even if we're talking about a third-trimester baby.
    abortion is immoral as well. I have never said otherwise and know few, if any, liberals who approve of abortions. I certainly do not approve of abortions, and only reluctantly support a woman's right to chose what happens in her own uterus over the prospect of having the state make that determination

    5. People who try to stop whalers from killing whales are heroic, but people who try to stop women from killing their unborn babies are intolerant.
    I think that greenpeace is wrong in its methodology. completely. Just like I think that anti-abortion groups are wrong in their methodology

    6. People who practice homosexuality have a right to get married, but adult-child marriage, beastiality marriage, consensual incest, and consensual pedophilia should all remain illegal.
    I think that any two people should have the right to enter into a legally binding civil contract. I think the state should stay out of the church's business regarding holy matrimony

    7. Freedom of religion is a basic right of all Americans. Why, after all, freedom of religion is the very reason the first European settlers came to this land. However, freedom of religion does not apply to churches that refuse to conduct or host gay weddings--such churches should be stripped of their tax exemption and forced to treat gay weddings the same way they treat normal weddings. Such churches should also be forced to hire gay priests. But it goes without saying that no gay group should ever be forced to hire a Bible-believing Christian. And if a gay restaurant owner wants to prohibit people from vocally blessing their food in his establishment, he of course has that right, since public prayers over food may make other patrons "uncomfortable."
    see above re: gay marriage. regarding saying grace at a restaurant, I am completely against any prohibitions of it

    8. Our public schools can't even suggest to children that life came about by design. Nor can public schools display the Ten Commandments. Nor can they read George Washington's Farewell Address to children. However, public schools can teach children that life came about purely by chance, that two gay men shacking up is just as valid a relationship as a traditional marriage, and that there's nothing wrong with pre-marital sex as long as they're careful and responsible about it.
    see above

    9. Government should not fine TV networks for airing nudity, sex scenes, and profanity, since no one is forced to watch any show they don't want to watch--they can just change the channel. However, government should be able to force commercial radio stations to air opposing political views, even if they have to do so at their own expense because the opposing views are not popular with the audience and hence advertisers don't want to buy advertising during those times. Never mind the fact that no one is forced to listen to a radio program they don't like; never mind that people can just change the station if they run across a political talk show they don't like; and never mind that people with opposing views are free to start their own talk shows, provided of course that they can garner a large enough audience to attract advertisers, etc., etc. Nope, in this case the First Amendment is Dead On Arrival. The government must force radio stations to air liberal talk radio shows to "balance out" the conservative talk radio shows, even if liberal talk shows attract much smaller audiences and usually don't pay for themselves. Note: This "fairness doctrine" does NOT apply to CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS, and MSNBC.
    see #1 above

    10. Government has a right to take as much of your paycheck as it thinks it needs, and if you object you're just being "selfish."
    determination of the marginal tax rate is and has always been a political determination. I see no reason why that should change

    11. Freedom of choice does not apply to parents who want to use their education tax dollars to send their kids to private schools.
    let them go somewhere and form their own country. Until then, the goverment has the power to tax and the power to spend those tax dollars. sorry.

    12. The government should have the right to determine whether or not a parent is qualified to educate their child themselves. The child really belongs to the state, not to the parent, and thus the state should have the final say as to who gets to teach the child. And just never you mind that home schoolers do better on standardized tests like the SAT and ACT than public school children do. Never you mind that the crime rate for home schoolers is a fraction of what it is for public school children. Never you mind that home schoolers usually excel in college and that on average they perform better in college than public school children do. Never you mind that the rate of rape, molestation, drug use, and violence is far greater in public schools than in home schools. Just never you mind all that.
    I have no problem with home schooling whatsoever

    13. The government should have the right to disarm the citizenry. If the government decides that it would be best if only the government had guns, then that's how it should be. Crime would go down if guns were outlawed and if only the government had guns. If it's in a good mood, the government may establish hunting centers around the country where licensed citizens (those "clingers") could come and do some heavily regulated hunting.
    I do not think that the government has the right to disarm the citizenry. I do think it has the right to regulate the sale and possession of firearms. two different things altogether[/QUOTE]

    anything else?
    Last edited by darin; 12-01-2008 at 09:55 AM. Reason: fixed because MFM sux at quoting. :)

  12. #12
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    Okay - Back on Topic folks.

    MFM - there is no REQUIREMENT for you to reply to threads you read. Please don't derail threads.



    Quote Originally Posted by manfrommaine View Post
    as if anyone would have EVER thought that YOU could have written it yourself!
    Quote Originally Posted by red states rule View Post
    and who would have thought you would contribute to the discussion
    Quote Originally Posted by manfrommaine View Post
    it's a humor piece. that is where it belongs.

    and it's a cut and paste job, which is your hallmark.

    If you want to write something of substance I would be happy to contribute to such a discussion. I've been waiting in vain for years for you to produce such a piece.
    Quote Originally Posted by red states rule View Post
    In order for anything to be humorous, there must be an element of truth. There is alot of truth in the piece about liberals and their double standards
    Quote Originally Posted by red states rule View Post
    Back to the topic

    Liberals have only 3 values, or goals in life

    1. Power, and expanding that power power

    2. Money, coming from anyone who has earned it, especially the rich

    3. The ends justify the means, whatever it takes to achieve numbers one and two
    Quote Originally Posted by manfrommaine View Post
    one could write a similar piece about conservatives and it would also belong in the humor forum.... this is not anything for serious debate. none of your cut and paste tripe is.
    Quote Originally Posted by red states rule View Post
    Liberals like you MFM have no values whatsoever. You find them too restraining.

    As in post # 6, all that matters to you is power and the means needed to attain that power
    Quote Originally Posted by red states rule View Post
    MFM is out to derail any thread he disagrees with. He will not debate the topic - only flame
    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

  13. #13
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    Before going out on disablity, I got into an argument with a coworker. We are forced to smoke in our cars, and as he was walking by my car he told me he was offended by my bumper stickers

    He said I shouldn't be allowed to have those hate filled stickers on my car.

    However, he had 2 Obama 08 bumper stickers on his car.

    When I asked him why I couldn't have it on my car, but he could have the Obama 08's on his car; he told me because it offended people.

    I told him with a smile: "I'm sorry, I did not know that YOU were the official spokesperson for the offensive bumper-sticker committee."

    He did not like it and stormed off in a huff. How typical of the tolerant left


    How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin.

    Ronald Reagan

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    Quote Originally Posted by manfrommaine View Post

    abortion is immoral as well. I have never said otherwise and know few, if any, liberals who approve of abortions. I certainly do not approve of abortions, and only reluctantly support a woman's right to chose what happens in her own uterus over the prospect of having the state make that determination

    Quote Originally Posted by manfrommaine View Post
    where did I EVER say that I did not "have a problem" with people getting abortions?
    When you said you support a woman's ability to get an abortion on demand.

    I do not waffle in the least. I am morally opposed to abortion. I do NOT, however, feel that embryos have souls and deserve protection under the law when such protection deprives women of THEIR rights.
    Yet by your own admission you have no idea WHEN a cluster of cells becomes a living soul? Only GOD knows - yet without ANY biblical backing, you've decided it CANNOT be at the moment of conception? How do you reconcile the fact you may very well be SUPPORTING the killing of innocent souls? Where is a woman's RIGHT to have an abortion? Bill of rights? When has congress created a law giving an abortion as a RIGHT of it's populace? Women have a right to PRIVACY. That's what roe v. wade is about. You're trumping the right of the baby's LIFE (We have a right to life, liberty and pursuit...ring any bells?) with the CONVIENIENCE of a woman to kill her offspring WITHOUT visible repercussoins (We all know, don't we? When a woman kills her baby it DOES cause damage to HER...like Abbey says - one killed, two wounded.).

    That's just sick - especially from one who CLAIMS Christianity, or a version thereof.
    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by red states rule View Post
    We are forced to smoke in our cars,

    Even non-smokers? How can a place of employment force people to smoke?
    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

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