Member
Global Warming- how can you deny it?
http://www.americanprogress.org/issu...imate_100.html
There are many scientific and health organizations, enviromental, endangered species, etc...who keep compiling evidence that the earths temperature is indeed rising and the effects are begining to become more evident.
I don't understand those who insist a freak snowstorm negates the idea that the earths temperature is rising. It would seem reasonable to expect this to happen slowly.
How can you deny all this information?
Senior Member
well........get your checkbook out and stop it..
"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself."
Tullius Cicero (106-43 BC)
Member
Because corporations and governments are fearmongering, the actual problem can't exist? It's sort of like terrorism (stay with me until I try to explain it, lol). Terrorism most definetly exists, and it's very effective because it has a domino effect once let loose on a group of people...living in fear has many implications and makes them vulnerable. Just because a government/business/whatever takes advantage of this situation does not mean terrorism doesn't exist, it means that it does and people failed to realize what was happening.Originally Posted by stephanie
No, I'm not the type to buy into anything anyones trying to sell me to make me feel "greener". There's nothing you can buy to reverse, stop, etc, climate change. Materialism is a machine that can profit off of everything, even truth.
Senior Member
glad you got that off your chest..
"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself."
Tullius Cicero (106-43 BC)
Member
You make some riveting arguments.
Senior Member
I say we should sell off all our material possessions and go back to living in a cave and riding donkeys to work..
of course you have to carry a mighty big pooper scooper with ya..
"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself."
Tullius Cicero (106-43 BC)
Member
Or, we could implement some of the technological advances that would render some of the current polluting ways obselete, instead of subscribing to the idea that we either have to ride donkeys or keep driving around in gasoline-powered cars.I say we should sell off all our material possessions and go back to living in a cave and riding donkeys to work..
of course you have to carry a mighty big pooper scooper with ya..
Banned
The argument, as I see it, Des, is not whether or not global warming is happening (except,of course, only amongst the entirely ignorant) but whether or not man is responsible in some way for it.
I am not denying any of the information concerning global warming. I am just attempting to clarify the real argument and perhaps encourage a credible debate and sharing of information. Great post, Des!!!!!!!!!!!!
Psychoblues
Member
[QUOTE=Psychoblues;330355]The argument, as I see it, Des, is not whether or not global warming is happening (except,of course, only amongst the entirely ignorant) but whether or not man is responsible in some way for it.
Does it matter? Look at the information presented. It's pretty clear that we are accelerating something. People are a natural part of the enviroment, just because we have more stuff does not mean we aren't subject to the same rules as the rest of nature.
The greenhouse effect is something very basic and very real. Seemingly simpler things have changed the enviroment in the past.
Banned
Actually, Des, to me it does not matter. I see green living as an opportunity to be a better steward of the environment that I inherited and that I will pass on to those that come after me.
[QUOTE=Des;330357]On the other hand, there are those that insist our climate changes are completely natural and resent anything or anyone that challenges that rather elementary and obviously ignorant approach. Dig it?!?!?!????!???!?!?
Psychoblues
Member
[QUOTE=Psychoblues;330365]Actually, Des, to me it does not matter. I see green living as an opportunity to be a better steward of the environment that I inherited and that I will pass on to those that come after me.
Well, it shouldn't matter. People are wasteful and completely ignorate about it as a whole. The group I see denying global warming is -usually- the same religious people who insist their is nothing on THEIR god's green earth that could change "gods plan" for it and nothing they could ever do to interfere. Why trash a planet you believe you are suppose to be a steward of? Honestly, I think sometimes people want to be wiped out. I keep hearing "I READ Revelations...I know my time is coming..." It just doesn't make sense to me to think that way. Like Mother Teresa said (quoted from my head) "what you build may be destroyed overnight, build anyway".
I don't do "green" living, just because I think that whole word is something that addresses a huge band aid on a bigger underlying issue. Theres nothing you can consume to make you any more enviromentally friendly. A business is trying to sell you something...not save the enviroment. Don't even get me started on carbon credits. Sustainability and less consumption are better options. Instant gratification is a far worse enemy that old-fashioned lightbulbs.
There is overwhelming scientific proof that the greenhouse effect is causing a global warming effect, and we know that we, as humans, emit carbon dioxide. Even if it is natural, why wouldn't we be interested in that?
Senior Member
it is NOT "pretty clear" that we are accelerating it....if you look at the historical record of temperatures from ice core samples it appears that we are pretty much on track with what has been happening cyclically for the last 450k years.....if anything, we are ready to begin a plunge into another ice age.....and, if you look at the data for just the last ten or twenty years, that may already have begun.....
...full immersion.....
Senior Member
I looked up temperature records in major cities all over the world, plotted all the temperature averages over time for as long as they've been kept (usually a century or so). Looked to me like there's been about a 1/2-degree (Celsius) increase in temperatures overall, in the last hunded years.
Not a thorough study, but it looks to me like there is something to it.
What I didn't find, was the slightest evidence that Man had anything to do with it, or can do anything to change it. And I still haven't seen any. And from what I've heard, neither has anyone else. Just empty rhetoric from AlGore-like people insisting it's true. No proof, no evidence, zippo. Satellite records show that Mars has gotten warmer by about the same amount, over the same period of time. Maybe the war between Marvin the Martian and Bugs Bunny, is heating up that planet?
Politicians saying that Government must "do something about" global warming, are pushing the ultimate snake oil. We can (and maybe will) pour billions of dollars into various schemes to "control" global warming. And when they don't have the slightest effect, the snake oil salesmen will say it's because we didn't do ENOUGH, and will demand that more billions be spent, more regulations and restrictions be imposed, more of us must feel guilty, etc. etc.
A medium amount of gullibility is necessary to believe in this manmade-global-warming tripe. Looks like a lot of people on this board (and both recent major Presidential candidates) fit the qualifications.
Last edited by Little-Acorn; 12-09-2008 at 02:35 PM.
"The social contract exists so that everyone doesn’t have to squat in the dust holding a spear to protect his woman and his meat all day every day. It does not exist so that the government can take your spear, your meat, and your woman because it knows better what to do with them." - Instapundit.com
Big Chief
Why would you expect to find evidence for or against that just from looking at a temperature history?
Right, except these guys:And I still haven't seen any. And from what I've heard, neither has anyone else.
The American Association for the Advancement of Science, the American Meteorological Society, the American Quaternary Association, the Geological Society of America, the American Geophysical Union, the American Astronomical Society, the American Institute of Physics, the American Physical Society, the American Chemical Society, the American Statistical Association
And that's just the ones in the U.S.
No they haven't. You either completely made that up or you're merely regurgitating a right wing talking point.Satellite records show that Mars has gotten warmer by about the same amount, over the same period of time.
I'm struggling to figure out what the politics has to do with whether or not its true.Politicians saying that Government must "do something about" global warming, are pushing the ultimate snake oil.
Looks like just about all scientists in the United States do as well. Not just "climate" scientists either, physicists, geologists, chemists, astronomers, mathematicians, etc.A medium amount of gullibility is necessary to believe in this manmade-global-warming tripe. Looks like a lot of people on this board (and both recent major Presidential candidates) fit the qualifications.
Where would you prefer to get your science, if not from actual scientists? Maybe - from right wing journalists who don't have an ounce of scientific training? OK, it is America, you are quite free to deliberately choose be an ignorant moron - as you are clearly doing in this case.
Senior Member
I agree, i think its unfair to blame man entirely for global warming, but we can do a lot to take care of our planet.
we shouldnt do either extreme, pretend nothing is happening, or run around like chickens with our heads cut off
we can solve any problem, we americans come together to solve
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