This is Torture?

[PostmodernProphet]

who turns him over to the terrorists who put hims back on the battle field who kills more Americans ...................

actually, it was my assumption that they would kill him rather than waste the time putting him in a cell.....

[manu1959]

they should simply walk all theses dudes to the gates of gitmo and point them in the direction of havana.....

[Mr. P]

I'll bet some left wing university will give them a full scholarship.

[red states rule]

I'll bet some left wing university will give them a full scholarship.

Or hire them as a full Prof (like Ayers the domestic terrorist)

[bullypulpit]

Now the pity party starts for this terrorist pig who wanted to kill as many innocent people as possible on 9-11

So we let this terrorist go, where do we send him?

Let him go so he can take part in another attack?

Is this the Dems war on terror plan?



Senior Guantánamo official admits 9/11 suspect was torturedTorture left alleged '20th hijacker' Mohammed al-Qahtani with serious heart problems, says Susan Crawford


snip

Susan Crawford, the Pentagon official in charge of military tribunals at the camp, said Mohammed al-Qahtani, a Saudi suspected of involvement in the September 11 terrorist plot, was subject to sustained isolation, sleep deprivation, nudity and prolonged exposure to cold. She said the torture meant he could not be prosecuted.

Qahtani, 30, was barred entry to America in August 2001 and is alleged by US authorities to be the 9/11 plot's "20th hijacker". He was captured in Afghanistan in 2002 and brutally interrogated for 48 days using a plan approved by the former US defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

"For 160 days [Qahtani's] only contact was with the interrogators," said Crawford. "Forty-eight of 54 consecutive days of 18- to 20-hour interrogations. Standing naked in front of a female agent. Subject to strip searches and insults to his mother and sister."

His treatment twice resulted in his hospitalisation with serious heart problems. A military report shows Qahtani was threatened with a military dog, forced to wear a bra and told his mother and sister "were whores". He was attached to a leash and "forced to perform a series of dog tricks".


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...ibunal-qahtani

As defined by US and international law and US treaty obligations, which are the law of the land as stated in teh Constitution, yes, it is. Bush an Cheney have both, then, admitted to violations of said laws by their actions and committed war crimes. Their cells await them at the Hague.

[red states rule]

As defined by US and international law and US treaty obligations, which are the law of the land as stated in teh Constitution, yes, it is. Bush an Cheney have both, then, admitted to violations of said laws by their actions and committed war crimes. Their cells await them at the Hague.

NP, terrorists are not covered under the GC, mor are they entitled to US Constitutiional rights

Now libs are in charge of running the war on terror. Soon, Obama will order the troops to read the terrorists their Miranda rights, and have troops pulled off the battlefield to testify in court

[bullypulpit]

NP, terrorists are not covered under the GC, mor are they entitled to US Constitutiional rights

Now libs are in charge of running the war on terror. Soon, Obama will order the troops to read the terrorists their Miranda rights, and have troops pulled off the battlefield to testify in court

In Hamdan v. Rumsfeld, the SCOTUS ruled that Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions does apply...to the GITMO detainees in particular and , by extension, all other "enemy combatants" in US custody.

[manu1959]

this man was a soilder of a foreign army that declared war on the united states.... he was not in uniform in compliance with the rules of war or the geneva convention and was not fighting according to the rules of war or the geneva convention ..... this makes him a spy and a terrorist .... and according to the genevena convention he should be tried for war crimes for purposely targeting civilians and according to the rules of war this man should be shot as a spy ......

[PostmodernProphet]

As defined by US and international law and US treaty obligations, which are the law of the land as stated in teh Constitution, yes, it is.

sorry, wrong....the US has done nothing defined as torture under the law.....

[bullypulpit]

sorry, wrong....the US has done nothing defined as torture under the law.....

<center><a href=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/13/AR2009011303372.html?hpid=topnews>Detainee Tortured, Says U.S. Official</a></center>

<blockquote>The top Bush administration official in charge of deciding whether to bring Guantanamo Bay detainees to trial has concluded that the U.S. military tortured a Saudi national who allegedly planned to participate in the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, interrogating him with techniques that included sustained isolation, sleep deprivation, nudity and prolonged exposure to cold, leaving him in a "life-threatening condition."

"We tortured [Mohammed al-]Qahtani," said Susan J. Crawford, in her first interview since being named convening authority of military commissions by Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates in February 2007. "His treatment met the legal definition of torture. And that's why I did not refer the case" for prosecution. </blockquote>

Yes, the Bush administration did.

[red states rule]

But what really happened? This from the Washington Post


U.S. to Try 6 On Capital Charges Over 9/11 Attacks
New Evidence Gained Without Coercive Tactics

By Josh White, Dan Eggen and Joby Warrick
Washington Post Staff Writers
Tuesday, February 12, 2008; Page A01

The Bush administration announced yesterday that it intends to bring capital murder charges against half a dozen men allegedly linked to the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, based partly on information the men disclosed to FBI and military questioners without the use of coercive interrogation tactics
The admissions made by the men -- who were given food whenever they were hungry as well as Starbucks coffee at the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba -- played a key role in the government's decision to proceed with the prosecutions, military and law enforcement officials said.

FBI and military interrogators who began work with the suspects in late 2006 called themselves the "Clean Team" and set as their goal the collection of virtually the same information the CIA had obtained from five of the six through duress at secret prisons.

To ensure that the data would not be tainted by allegations of torture or illegal coercion, the FBI and military team won the suspects' trust over the past 16 months by using time-tested rapport-building techniques, the officials said.

Though long expected, the Pentagon's announcement means that the self-described mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks -- Khalid Sheik Mohammed -- and five others accused of taking part in the associated training, financing and logistical preparations could face a military jury before the end of President Bush's term, something the administration has made a priority.

Prosecutors recommended to senior officials that the men be tried jointly and they asked Susan Crawford, the convening authority for military commissions, to approve the death penalty. Preliminary hearings could begin within a month.

Brig. Gen. Thomas W. Hartmann, Crawford's legal adviser, said yesterday that the charges "allege a long-term, highly sophisticated, organized plan by al-Qaeda to attack the United States of America."

Mohammed is alleged to have masterminded the plot in consultation with Osama bin Laden. The five others -- Walid bin Attash (also known as Tawfiq bin Attash), Ramzi Binalshibh, Ammar al-Baluchi, Mustafa Ahmed al-Hawsawi and Mohammed al-Qahtani -- are accused of helping to finance and facilitate the attack. Hartmann said there have not been discussions about charging bin Laden.

An unanswered question is whether the FBI and military interrogators could have extracted the same information without a road map from the CIA indicating what they might say. It also remains unknowable whether the detainees would have responded to a friendly approach without first receiving more aggressive treatment.

Vincent Warren, executive director of the Center for Constitutional Rights, which represents one of the detainees charged and many more at Guantanamo Bay, said the cases are "essentially show trials, as President Bush is leaving his tarnished legacy to the next president." He added: "They are being used to justify six years of lawlessness and barbarity this government has been doing."

White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said Bush played no role in deciding which detainees would be prosecuted, or in deciding to pursue the death penalty. "The White House was not involved," she said. "They made the decision to bring the charges today because, as they said, they were ready to do so."

Officials said most of the detainees talked to FBI and military interrogators, some for days, others for months, while one or two rebuffed them. The men were read rights similar to a standard U.S. Miranda warning, and officials designed the program to get to the information the CIA already had gleaned by using waterboarding, which simulates drowning, and other techniques such as sleep deprivation, forced standing and the use of extreme temperatures.
"They went in and said that they'd love to talk to them, that they knew what the men had been through, and that none of that stuff was going to be done to them," said one official familiar with the program who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of its secrecy. "It was made very clear to them that they were in a very different environment, that they were not with the CIA anymore. There was an extensive period of making sure they understood it had to be voluntary on their part."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...T2008021101227

[PostmodernProphet]

Yes, the Bush administration did.

no, they didn't......it's just a liberal's wet dream.....

[red states rule]

The harsh reality is that its not "what is done" but "WHO" does it.

Muslims can cut off heads and libs look for something we did to provoke it.

Americans make a Muslim be examined by a female physician, or take away their Koran, and it is considered a capital crime.

[bullypulpit]

But what really happened? This from the Washington Post


U.S. to Try 6 On Capital Charges Over 9/11 Attacks
New Evidence Gained Without Coercive Tactics

By Josh White, Dan Eggen and Joby Warrick
Washington Post Staff Writers
Tuesday, February 12, 2008; Page A01

The Bush administration announced yesterday that it intends to bring capital murder charges against half a dozen men allegedly linked to the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, based partly on information the men disclosed to FBI and military questioners without the use of coercive interrogation tactics
The admissions made by the men -- who were given food whenever they were hungry as well as Starbucks coffee at the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba -- played a key role in the government's decision to proceed with the prosecutions, military and law enforcement officials said.

FBI and military interrogators who began work with the suspects in late 2006 called themselves the "Clean Team" and set as their goal the collection of virtually the same information the CIA had obtained from five of the six through duress at secret prisons.

To ensure that the data would not be tainted by allegations of torture or illegal coercion, the FBI and military team won the suspects' trust over the past 16 months by using time-tested rapport-building techniques, the officials said.

Though long expected, the Pentagon's announcement means that the self-described mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks -- Khalid Sheik Mohammed -- and five others accused of taking part in the associated training, financing and logistical preparations could face a military jury before the end of President Bush's term, something the administration has made a priority.

Prosecutors recommended to senior officials that the men be tried jointly and they asked Susan Crawford, the convening authority for military commissions, to approve the death penalty. Preliminary hearings could begin within a month.

Brig. Gen. Thomas W. Hartmann, Crawford's legal adviser, said yesterday that the charges "allege a long-term, highly sophisticated, organized plan by al-Qaeda to attack the United States of America."

Mohammed is alleged to have masterminded the plot in consultation with Osama bin Laden. The five others -- Walid bin Attash (also known as Tawfiq bin Attash), Ramzi Binalshibh, Ammar al-Baluchi, Mustafa Ahmed al-Hawsawi and Mohammed al-Qahtani -- are accused of helping to finance and facilitate the attack. Hartmann said there have not been discussions about charging bin Laden.

An unanswered question is whether the FBI and military interrogators could have extracted the same information without a road map from the CIA indicating what they might say. It also remains unknowable whether the detainees would have responded to a friendly approach without first receiving more aggressive treatment.

Vincent Warren, executive director of the Center for Constitutional Rights, which represents one of the detainees charged and many more at Guantanamo Bay, said the cases are "essentially show trials, as President Bush is leaving his tarnished legacy to the next president." He added: "They are being used to justify six years of lawlessness and barbarity this government has been doing."

White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said Bush played no role in deciding which detainees would be prosecuted, or in deciding to pursue the death penalty. "The White House was not involved," she said. "They made the decision to bring the charges today because, as they said, they were ready to do so."

Officials said most of the detainees talked to FBI and military interrogators, some for days, others for months, while one or two rebuffed them. The men were read rights similar to a standard U.S. Miranda warning, and officials designed the program to get to the information the CIA already had gleaned by using waterboarding, which simulates drowning, and other techniques such as sleep deprivation, forced standing and the use of extreme temperatures.
"They went in and said that they'd love to talk to them, that they knew what the men had been through, and that none of that stuff was going to be done to them," said one official familiar with the program who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of its secrecy. "It was made very clear to them that they were in a very different environment, that they were not with the CIA anymore. There was an extensive period of making sure they understood it had to be voluntary on their part."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...T2008021101227

If the evidence and the testimony was obtained absent coercion, is not hearsay, and can be challenged by the defendants at their trials without restriction, then by all means, use it. Of course, it leaves one wondering why they haven't been able to do this in the last six years.

[red states rule]

If the evidence and the testimony was obtained absent coercion, is not hearsay, and can be challenged by the defendants at their trials without restriction, then by all means, use it. Of course, it leaves one wondering why they haven't been able to do this in the last six years.

I guess you liberals want us to just send these enemies back to the front so they can IED us again?

Waterboarding is not a true form of torture. It is merely a mental game.

Do you do gooder liberals recognize that your namby-pamby approach to handling enemy combatants is also known by those who try to kill our soldiers?

They know exactly how to push your buttons so that they are not prosecuted.