Senior Member
BREAKING NEWS. commutes two border agents.
Last edited by stephanie; 01-19-2009 at 01:07 PM.
"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself."
Tullius Cicero (106-43 BC)
Seasoned Citizen
I was hoping for this!!
UNITED STATES ARMY AVIATION
Above the Best
Why the Hell should I have to press “1” for ENGLISH?
Senior Member
my mistake, it was commuted, not pardon..Originally Posted by Mr. P
I was hoping for this!!
still good news..
"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself."
Tullius Cicero (106-43 BC)
Senior Member
Excellent.
Note the bolded line in the article below.
After the shooting of the smuggler, the US govt gave the smuggler a pass to get across the border as often as he wanted. The purpose was so that he could come into court and testify against the two Border Patrol agents, Ramos and Compean.
While the smuggler had the pass, he used it to bring at least two more loads of marijuana into the US. He was caught with at least one, but never prosecuted.
This all happened before the trial of the two border patrol agents. When the prosecutor stated in court that there was no evidence to connect the smuggler to the van full of marijuana found during his encoounter with the border patrol agents, he was fully aware of the smuggler's bringing in the two subsequent loads. He worked hard to make sure the truth about the smuggler, was never placed before the jury.
These facts were not admitted in court, and the jury never heard about them until after the trial was over. Several of the jurors, when told about the subsequent smugglings after the trial, said that they would never have voted to convict the Border Patrol agents, had they known of the smuggler's record of repeated smugglings. They had thought he was a simple, lone border-crosser who was assaulted by the Border Patrol agents for no particular reason.
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http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1
Bush commutes sentences of former US border agents
Jan 19 01:03 PM US/Eastern
By DEB RIECHMANN
Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON (AP) - In his final acts of clemency, President George W. Bush on Monday commuted the prison sentences of two former U.S. Border Patrol agents whose convictions for shooting a Mexican drug dealer ignited fierce debate about illegal immigration.
Bush's decision to commute the sentences of Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean, who tried to cover up the shooting, was welcomed by both Republican and Democratic members of Congress. They had long argued that the agents were merely doing their jobs, defending the American border against criminals. They also maintained that the more than 10-year prison sentences the pair was given were too harsh.
Rancor over their convictions, sentencing and firings has simmered ever since the shooting occurred in 2005.
Ramos and Compean became a rallying point among conservatives and on talk shows where their supporters called them heroes. Nearly the entire bipartisan congressional delegation from Texas and other lawmakers from both sides of the political aisle pleaded with Bush to grant them clemency.
Bush didn't pardon the men for their crimes, but decided instead to commute their prison sentences because he believed they were excessive and that they had already suffered the loss of their jobs, freedom and reputations, a senior administration official said.
The action by the president, who believes the border agents received fair trials and that the verdicts were just, does not diminish the seriousness of their crimes, the official said.
Compean and Ramos, who have served about two years of their sentences, are expected to be released from prison within the next two months.
They were convicted of shooting admitted drug smuggler Osvaldo Aldrete Davila in the buttocks as he fled across the Rio Grande, away from an abandoned van load of marijuana. The border agents argued during their trials that they believed the smuggler was armed and that they shot him in self defense. The prosecutor in the case said there was no evidence linking the smuggler to the van of marijuana. The prosecutor also said the border agents didn't report the shooting and tampered with evidence by picking up several spent shell casings.
Last edited by Little-Acorn; 01-19-2009 at 01:28 PM.
"The social contract exists so that everyone doesn’t have to squat in the dust holding a spear to protect his woman and his meat all day every day. It does not exist so that the government can take your spear, your meat, and your woman because it knows better what to do with them." - Instapundit.com
nuke-u-lar get it right
ABOUT FUCKING TIME!!!!!!!!!!!
Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want." -Dr. Randy Pausch
Death is lighter than a feather, Duty is heavier than a mountain
Senior Member
Looks like Half a Loaf time again. Bush should have pardoned them. As it is, he leaves them as bankrupt, unemployed Federal felons. Which they absolutely do not deserve.
BTW, the smuggler is still free, having never spent a day in prison.
"The social contract exists so that everyone doesn’t have to squat in the dust holding a spear to protect his woman and his meat all day every day. It does not exist so that the government can take your spear, your meat, and your woman because it knows better what to do with them." - Instapundit.com
Plant Parenthood.
why did he wait till the last few days? If he, and others, thoght they should he free then why wait?
And it is kinda weird that bush agreed they had committed a crime, and that they had a fair trail were they were justly fond guilty, it is a very weird power that allows the pres. To pardon or shorten the sentance, and I think it sends the wrong message, that the pres. Is above the law. But while I think it's a daft power I do not begrudge bush for using it, as it is his prerogative.
If you also agree that an animals suffering should be avoided rather than encouraged, consider what steps you can take.
Libertas Super Omnia
It's somewhat of an American tradition for Presidents to wait and issue their pardons towards the end of their terms.
Liberty is the greatest measure of equality.
Economic Left/Right: 9.38, Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.51
Sola Scriptura | Soli Deo Gloria | Solo Christo | Sola Gratia | Sola Fide
Plant Parenthood.
But does it not just feel wrong? That in a time when basicly nothing can be done to the pres. he can void the judicial system? Again I'm not talking about this specific case as I don't know the whole story to it.
Last edited by Noir; 01-19-2009 at 03:46 PM.
If you also agree that an animals suffering should be avoided rather than encouraged, consider what steps you can take.
Senior Member
even a Governor of a state can commute or pardon a prisoner, if he feels they didn't get justice.
So in this case, President Bush was right to do it..you'd have to know the whole case to understand.
"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself."
Tullius Cicero (106-43 BC)
Libertas Super Omnia
I understand what you're getting at, but as the Chief Executive, he's got the power to do this any time he wants. It's just that many of them wait.
And yes, some of the pardons do seem a bit wrong, like Bill Clinton's pardon of those Puerto Rican terrorists in 2000.
Liberty is the greatest measure of equality.
Economic Left/Right: 9.38, Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.51
Sola Scriptura | Soli Deo Gloria | Solo Christo | Sola Gratia | Sola Fide
Plant Parenthood.
But does it not trash the justice system? If you have a problem with unjust sentences being handed out then it should be the judges in the line of fire, it should not be left to govenors or the pres. To deal with it, I could only imagin the uproar if our PM tried to pardon someone.
If you also agree that an animals suffering should be avoided rather than encouraged, consider what steps you can take.
Senior Member
that is done also..if they can prove to a judge they didn't get a fair trail, the judge can find that they get a new one.
it's just how our system is set up..most of the time it's used wisely..
"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself."
Tullius Cicero (106-43 BC)
Senior Member
Ultimately, America is all politics all the time. The President is elected. Congress is elected. The Courts are filled with judges who either are elected or who are appointed by elected officials.
Cutting through all the red tape and releasing someone for political reasons is no big surprise.
Building a better America by hammering the Right.
Smitten Senior Admin
Well, Joe, it looks like we agree on something.
But whatever the reason they were pardoned, it's about time.
Last edited by Abbey Marie; 01-19-2009 at 05:53 PM.
After the game, the king and the pawn go into the same box - Author unknown
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