closing gitmo....

[Immanuel]

For your information, most of the prisoners at Gitmo come from Afghan, not Iraq. They end up there when they are affiliated with AQ and are high ranking. The lower ranking guys are dealt with in country. And most often they are foreigners to the country they are captured in.

So says... who?

Immie

[manu1959]

Granted in a conventional war. The detainees have not been accused of being spies nor has there been a shred of evidence that any of them have participated in the war. They are citizens of Iraq who were picked up Willy Nilly (some because neighbors looking for a reward turned them in) and hauled off to a foreign country.

If these people were spies then shoot them upon capture and prove it when an inquiry comes up. If they are prisoners of war, then they should have been declared so and afforded rights under the Geneva Convention.

As it is these are people without a face or a voice who are being held indefinitely without any real hope. I'm all for holding those that are enemies of our country, but I am against the idea of holding innocent people... even one innocent person.

Immie

to say they were picked up willy nilly is a bit disengenous......we are still at war so they are still being held.....if they declare they are from a country and out of uniform they can be shot as spies....if they declare they are from a country then they are eligible for the geneva convention....so they....by their own actions have placed themselves in limbo.....as far as i can tell as the "pows" are determined to be innocent they are being released those that are guilty are being held until the war is over....as for their treatment overall it appears they are being treated well .....

i am interested to see if obama retruns to clintons rendition scheme.....we are still at war and we are still capturing folks....

[Immanuel]

to say they were picked up willy nilly is a bit disengenous......we are still at war so they are still being held.....if they declare they are from a country and out of uniform they can be shot as spies....if they declare they are from a country then they are eligible for the geneva convention....so they....by their own actions have placed themselves in limbo.....as far as i can tell as the "pows" are determined to be innocent they are being released those that are guilty are being held until the war is over....as for their treatment overall it appears they are being treated well .....

i am interested to see if obama retruns to clintons rendition scheme.....we are still at war and we are still capturing folks....

Well, my major problem, is in how they are determined to be POW's. I lost trust in the honesty of President Bush. That is a shame, but it happened. For all we know these people could be American supporters. When the "powers that be" are the sole determining factors as to whether someone is allowed to live or not, I get nervous. Piss off the wrong man, and your life is over. Get in the way of the wrong man and life ends.

Gaffer says that most of the detainees are high level AQ operatives. If that is the case, then there should be no problem proving it in a trial. That is all I ask. Give the innocent people a chance to prove they are innocent rather than locking them up until hell freezes over... and make no mistake, that is when the terrorists will cease hostilities and not before. That is when this war will truly be over.

Immie

[Gaffer]

So says... who?

Immie

So says the military. Most of those in Gitmo have been there since well before the Iraq invasion. A few have been added from pakistan. The average mo on the street is of no interest to the military or the CIA. And they don't walk down the street snatching up anybody with a gun. They have caught them in combat areas with cell phones, laptops, radio's, maps and instructions. Someone like that knows something. He's worth taking back for serious questioning. If he appears to be high value he goes to Gitmo.

The media would have you believe that these are just innocent husbands and fathers taken from their families, who are sitting home at the supper table wondering about their loved ones. It ain't true.

[PostmodernProphet]

They are citizens of Iraq who were picked up Willy Nilly (some because neighbors looking for a reward turned them in) and hauled off to a foreign country.

......Immie: victim of liberal disinformation campaign......be gentle.....

[Immanuel]

......Immie: victim of liberal disinformation campaign......be gentle.....

Thanks for your care and concern!

Actually, more of a victim of believing that we should do what is right regardless of who is wrong.

Immie

[PostmodernProphet]

so, for this guy who wants capital punishment, so he can be a martyr....and who shouts "death to the infidels" at his hearing.....we should believe he was falsely accused by his neighbor because he played his stereo too loud late at night?......we aren't talking about people who were falsely accused, Immie....we can all agree to let them go.....but we both know we have to do SOMETHING with the ones who were correctly accused....and "feel-good" liberal blathering doesn't change that......

[Immanuel]

so, for this guy who wants capital punishment, so he can be a martyr....and who shouts "death to the infidels" at his hearing.....we should believe he was falsely accused by his neighbor because he played his stereo too loud late at night?......we aren't talking about people who were falsely accused, Immie....we can all agree to let them go.....but we both know we have to do SOMETHING with the ones who were correctly accused....and "feel-good" liberal blathering doesn't change that......

Then give them proper trials and let those who are found innocent go. What is wrong with that? These people will never get trials because the witnesses (if there are any) will never testify for or against them, so instead, they simply rot in jail and maybe if they behave themselves and don't look cross-eyed at one of their jailers, in other words they kowtow to their captors, somebody will say, that they are not terrorists and if they are lucky when they are old and decrepit, they might just go back to their wives and children.

If, as Gaffer says, they are AQ operatives then it should be damned easy to bring out the evidence against them and bring them to justice. Sounds good to me. But, when the government locks them up, and says, "we know they are terrorists because they didn't come running up to our soldiers thanking them for bringing freedom to Iraq", that just doesn't cut it. Just because they are not thrilled that American Soldiers have invaded and occupied their land does not mean they are terrorists. If Russia were to invade America, I sure wouldn't walk up to them and slap them on the back thanking them. Would you? At the very least when their tanks went rolling by, I would be showing them a single finger salute.

I guess in Russian eyes that would make me a terrorist too.

Immie
Immie

[Mr. P]

Then give them proper trials and let those who are found innocent go. What is wrong with that? These people will never get trials because the witnesses (if there are any) will never testify for or against them, so instead, they simply rot in jail and maybe if they behave themselves and don't look cross-eyed at one of their jailers, in other words they kowtow to their captors, somebody will say, that they are not terrorists and if they are lucky when they are old and decrepit, they might just go back to their wives and children.

If, as Gaffer says, they are AQ operatives then it should be damned easy to bring out the evidence against them and bring them to justice. Sounds good to me. But, when the government locks them up, and says, "we know they are terrorists because they didn't come running up to our soldiers thanking them for bringing freedom to Iraq", that just doesn't cut it. Just because they are not thrilled that American Soldiers have invaded and occupied their land does not mean they are terrorists. If Russia were to invade America, I sure wouldn't walk up to them and slap them on the back thanking them. Would you? At the very least when their tanks went rolling by, I would be showing them a single finger salute.

I guess in Russian eyes that would make me a terrorist too.

Immie
Immie

A very poor choice of a weapon, Immie.

[PostmodernProphet]

Then give them proper trials and let those who are found innocent go. What is wrong with that?

what's wrong is that you are trying to pretend that soldiers are trained police officers....their job is to kill the people trying to kill them, not preserve evidence and act as witnesses in trials.....no prisoner of any war has ever been given a "proper" trial and what reason do you have to demand they are entitled to it now?......

But, when the government locks them up, and says, "we know they are terrorists because they didn't come running up to our soldiers thanking them for bringing freedom to Iraq", that just doesn't cut it.

I find it amazing that you can say that as if you actually think it happens.....that's really fucked up, if you think that about your own country......and quite frankly, I think it says more about you than it does America....

[manu1959]

Well, my major problem, is in how they are determined to be POW's. I lost trust in the honesty of President Bush. That is a shame, but it happened. For all we know these people could be American supporters. When the "powers that be" are the sole determining factors as to whether someone is allowed to live or not, I get nervous. Piss off the wrong man, and your life is over. Get in the way of the wrong man and life ends.

Gaffer says that most of the detainees are high level AQ operatives. If that is the case, then there should be no problem proving it in a trial. That is all I ask. Give the innocent people a chance to prove they are innocent rather than locking them up until hell freezes over... and make no mistake, that is when the terrorists will cease hostilities and not before. That is when this war will truly be over.

Immie

the military has been releasing people they have found to be innocent over the past 7 years.......at least the bush admin opened a prison....clinton sent them to other countries to "secret" prisons.....as far as i know "POW" are not entitled to a trial....

[Kathianne]

Just saying:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/01/14/git...ees/index.html

Pentagon: Ex-Gitmo detainees resume terror acts

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Dozens of suspected terrorists released by the United States from Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, are believed to have returned to terrorism activities, according to the Pentagon.

Since 2002, 61 former detainees have committed or are suspected to have committed attacks after being released from the detention camp, Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell said at a briefing Tuesday.

The number is up since the Pentagon's last report in March 2008 when officials said 37 former detainees had been suspected of returning to the battlefield since 2002.

Since 2007, more than 100 detainees were released, significantly more than in previous years, according to Pentagon officials.

According to the statistics, of the 61 former detainees that are believed to have returned to fighting, 18 have been officially confirmed while 43 are suspected, Morrell said.

The 18 were confirmed through intelligence, photographs, fingerprints and other information, Morrell said.

Of the 43 other detainees suspected of taking part in terrorist attacks, only "plausible reporting" on their activities indicated some kind of involvement, according to Morrell....

[manu1959]

Just saying:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/01/14/git...ees/index.html

see what a moron bush is ...he released all the guilty ones and kept all the innocent ones......thank god obama is president now.....

[DragonStryk72]

Gee what do you do with a bunch of poor innocent fellows who were just picked up off the street and locked up in a strange land? The countries they came from don't want them back or have death warrants waiting for them. The innocents is just reeking off them to be sure.

15 are chinese and will be put to death immediately upon their return. Hmmm do I really have to think about what to do with these guys?

Does anyone believe that a guy captured on a battle field in Afghan with weapons and ammo was just an innocent bystander. If you do I have some desert property in Florida to sell you.

Now that the messiah is in charge of Gitmo the only thing that will change will be the reporting on what goes on there. In other words, the lies stop. The media accomplished their mission.

So, um, Gaff, speaking as a soldier, let's say that Iraq and Afghanistan decided we were a rogue nation, and that our leader was a tyrant, then, while UN told them repeatedly not to, they both jumped, destroying every bit of infrastructure we had, then, in the aftermath, fired the entire standing army, navy, and air force. After this, the Mexicans and Canadians decided our land would be a wonderful place to have a war, with now four groups, only one of which wears a uniform of any kind, running around shooting people, you're telling me you wouldn't be armed? I don't care if it was a bow and arrow, I am hauling something that can kill from distance in that atmosphere.

[DragonStryk72]

see what a moron bush is ...he released all the guilty ones and kept all the innocent ones......thank god obama is president now.....

no shit, you mean people illegally snatched up from their homes, held without bail, charges being laid, or even so much as the ability to say, "I didn't do it", while be waterboarded, and otherwise fucked with for a year or so, might not like the people who did it?